A (1:55)

It's been 32 seconds. And let me tell you, things have happened. We have seen things, we've experienced things from COVID to, I won't give you all the good stuff at the beginning, but it's been really challenging and amazing and exciting. And if I had known all the stuff I was getting myself into, I probably would have been way more cautious. And because I didn't know, I just was, like, running from one challenge to the next challenge constantly and just being like, of course I could do this, because I did that and I landed that plane so I can land the bigger plane. And I talk about it in my book that I wrote, which is about my entire journey. And it's like, Confidence belt. I'm building this confidence belt and every day that I do something hard, I get to the next place and then the muscle gets a little stronger and I can do something bigger. But it was because of all those little things I did that made me willing to leap to the next thing.

B (2:46)

I talked about this before, but I think it's like there's certain, certain things that we think of as being binary in life, like courage. Oh, you're a courageous person or you're not, but to me it's like it's a muscle that can be developed. And also you can sort of learn to be brave or resilient or courageous in like one sphere and have it not necessarily permeate the others in your Life, right?

A (3:08)

Yeah, 100%.

B (3:09)

But it does feel like every time you jump off the cliff, the jumping off the cliff gets a little bit easier.

A (3:14)

100%. Also, every single time I have done something scary, scary, I am just more willing to do the next thing that's scary. And it served me because I sort of fail forward when goes wrong. I'm like, okay, that happened. Now how the hell am I going to get out of this and get to the next place? And I never forget those moments. Whereas the winds are sort of fleeting. I'm like, okay, I got the factory, I did the thing, I hit the revenue and it's gone. Like that feeling of success in that moment is just gone. But when you go through something really hard, you don't forget that. You're like, holy, how did that happen? What did I do? How do I do that so that doesn't happen again? And at least for me, I'm like, I am analyzing the situation and I'm learning from it. And then I'm like, get your up and keep going. And it's hard, but it's necessary. What, am I going to throw in the towel because I hit a pothole? No, a lot of people do throw

B (4:11)

in the towel when they hit a pothole. You know, it's tough. I mean, I want to talk about some of those, especially those like really salient early lessons learned and failures to give people a sense of the origin story.

A (4:26)

Right.

B (4:26)

Like you started this with no joke $300, which seems impossible at the time. You're working at two high end LA restaurants, one of which as a line cook, which is a really intense job, one of which is a two Michelin star restaurant. Now with three restaurant Providence. Go Providence. And yet you see this opportunity to reinvent the apron. I think for a lot of us the apron feels like a very humble thing. It's like a layer that keeps your food from getting on your clothing. But you saw a deeper need. What was that?

A (5:04)

I mean, I was working 12 hour shifts. It was really hard work. It was really intense. It was very physical and mental, right? You'd get to the end of the day, and you were like, we just got through that. Like, it was like going to war slash a very intense football game every single day. And you'd get to the end of the day, and you felt like garbage. You dressed like garbage. And I was like, there's just something odd about this. Like, why can't we look amazing? Why can't we feel amazing in the kitchen and then execute at that level? So it was for me, and it was also for the people around me that I was cooking with. And it's funny because when people would come to the restaurant after they had a meal, they'd come into the kitchen, no one would recognize them. We were like, who are you? Oh, it's the cook that stands next to me all day. But they would transform so radically when they weren't in their uniform, they looked like real people, and we just didn't feel like real people in the kitchen. So that was the shift. It was just, like, about dignity and pride, not about, I'm gonna hit eight figures one day. I wanted people to feel different in the kitchen, and I wanted to feel different. And again, I was just like a $10 an hour line cook. I didn't have an MBA. I don't come from a trust fund. I wasn't raised with, like, tons of money in any way, shape, or form. But I was raised by two parents that were, we're hardworking, and my mom is Latin. My dad's English. So I saw this, like, do it, go for it, make it happen. Just show up, work hard mentality. And I just threw in my own little special sauce into that. I was like, okay, let's combine hard work with a vision, and let's also make it something that's about community so it's not just me. And then I'm going to bring all these chefs along and get their opinion on what they need. So, you know, without saying it directly at that time, I was like, focus. Grouping my entire audience without knowing it. So I'm like, what do you need, Nancy Silverton? What do you need, Dave Chang? Tell me what's wrong. Tell me what's working? And they were giving me all the answers and the building blocks to create this company. So I got it. Right. Because I didn't do it alone.

B (7:08)

Right. You had the privilege of being your own consumer in the beginning. That first prototype, the first aprons that made their way out the door. How close were those aprons to what we know and love as Asian beauty?

A (7:25)

Like a four out of ten. They were terrible, but the vision was there. It was like a better material, a little bit of color, some thoughtfulness around the cut. But, you know, I didn't know things about if it's gonna pill, which are those little balls that happens on your clothes after you wear them for a while. It's like, shitty clothes pill. We didn't think about that for fabric early on. I wasn't thinking about how's it gonna shrink in the wash, and should I do a wash test? These are all things we figured out now and are psychotic about our quality. But early on, the first batch, they looked beautiful. They looked like a perfect little stack of Chiclets. When I turned them in, it was like, here's your crisp new things. And then 24 hours later, Chef was like, these suck. What happened? Their straps are falling off. And I was like, I'll fix them. I'm like, this is my one and only customer. This is my chef. Right. Cause I worked for the guy at the time my beloved Joseph sent, and I had to fix them. And so it was like trial by fire. But if I hadn't gotten myself down the road and said, yes, I'm gonna make these aprons for you, I wouldn't have figured out a lot of those things. And, yes, you can say I could hide somewhere and develop this concept for a year, but I just had the opportunity. He said, will you make these aprons? And I said, hell, yes. Let's go. So for me, I learned a lot more just doing it than analyzing it from the window.

B (8:40)

There's this interesting juxtaposition that you really tied in nicely, which is that, like, especially at restaurants of this caliber, the food that you're churning out is artful. It's at the level of theater almost, you know? And then you guys are looking like garbage in the kitchen. But that's partly because restaurants have incredibly tight margins. And now you're coming out with something that's higher quality, probably at a slightly higher price point. The first one is not perfect. No. Did you find that still, Chef Joseph and the other chefs that you worked with in the beginning were willing to be forgiving and let you go on the journey of iterating?

A (9:18)

Yeah. So because I was so quick to fix it, I Said, keep the aprons you've got. Let me take a piece of them. Let me take like half and I'll fix those. We'll get the straps right. There was some issue with the straps. They were like undoing themselves. Cause it had a little. I'm not going to get technical with you. But basically the straps sucked. And he was like, you need to fix these straps. So I went out and we found the perfect material. We found brass hardware which is now like the standard on all Headley embedded items. You got a reference before we showed up in the world. Aprons were made out of poly cotton that was like see through the straps are shoelace thickness. So uncomfortable they fall apart within months. And these aprons I now was creating were like made out of beautiful Japanese denim. Brass hardware made in la. Super durable pockets where they need to go. Like it was just so much better. So it was such a come up from zero that he's like, okay, fine, fix the straps. Everything else works.

B (10:16)

I can see where it's going.

A (10:18)

Exactly. And he saw the tenacity to resolve the problem and own full responsibility for the issue. And I think that's like true for any entrepreneur. You're gonna up along the way. Are you willing to own it and fix it rapidly? And if you are, most of the time people are totally down to be a part of that with you. Like if someone screws up an order and you call customer service and they're like, sorry, there's nothing we can do for you, like, that sucks. But if they're like, oh damn, that's terrible. Let me fix this for you. We're not gonna let this happen again. How exactly did this go down? Let's get to the bottom of it. You're like, awesome. I have a human being on the other side, so. So every step of my headland journey with my team has been about how do we make our audience and our community feel like they're being treated like real humans and they're being serviced by real humans. Like it's not a transaction. You are not a transaction. You are actually somebody that we love and we want to take care of. And that's what it means to be a part of the Headley and Bennett ecosystem.

B (11:16)

It is such a meaningful difference. I find that I have such a loyalty to brands that right. That treat me like a human being and that are willing to work with me. And I'm so much more forgiving of issues and screw ups and whatever.

A (11:34)

And by the way, it's free. It's free to Treat someone with dignity. It's free to treat someone with respect and to call them and to email them with more emojis and exclamation marks and like, hey, how's it going? Versus, thank you for reaching out to Headley and Bennett. That's a free difference. But to your point, it has this massive impact on how you think about a brand, because you are doing it with soul and, like, humanity, not just transaction.

B (12:01)

What were some of the. Or one even of, like, the hardest failures or mistakes learned in those early days?

A (12:10)

Oh, my God, so many. Every day, I felt like we were on the verge of collapse in some different fashion. I mean, I'll never forget there was an order for Brian Voltaggio, who's Michael Voltaggio's brother. I had met him through Michael. So I felt this, like, need to do everything perfect. And they gave us an order for 150 aprons, which was the biggest order Headley and Bennett had ever done by Miles. And they had a deadline. They were opening the restaurant, and we did not get the embroidery right. Like, there was something wrong with it, and we didn't deliver on the day it needed to ship. So we missed the. The cutoff to ship, and we were freaking out. We were like, the restaurant is going to open without our aprons. And while it's, like, the last thing you're thinking of in a restaurant opening, it's also the thing that they went out of their way to think about, and we failed them, and we ended up giving them the aprons. We gave them 150 aprons.

B (13:05)

You didn't have the money for that?

A (13:06)

Hell, no, we didn't have the money for that. But I did it because I wanted him to know that we were taking responsibility for the mistake that we made.

B (13:13)

Wow.

A (13:13)

And I think that had a really big impact on them. And I don't even really know if he understood that we were that tiny and that we had absorbed that cost. But it didn't matter. I wasn't doing it for anyone other than, like, our own integrity and letting our customer, who was really our friend, know, hey, we're. We're owning our spot.

B (13:33)

Our.

A (13:33)

Our mistake here.

B (13:34)

I feel like there's a lesson in this that you. That you keep touching on about your orientation, your primary orientation being towards something other than the bottom line.

A (13:45)

Yeah, I think that's true. For a long time. My accountant would be like, this is not an ngo. You need.

B (13:51)

You gotta make money.

A (13:52)

This is not a nonprofit. I'm like, I know, but there's decisions that you make. That don't impact you today, but that will impact you tomorrow. And I've always had this position for Hedley and Bennett to be a brand of heritage and not just a flash in the pan. I don't want to be that type of brand that's like, cool today, gone tomorrow. I want to be a Le Creuset. I want to be an all clad. I want to be a brand that your mom, your grandma, the next generation is like, hell, yes, I'm going to buy Headley and Bennett. You know why? Because my grandfather used them at their restaurant and then my family started using them and then my friends wore them. And every Thanksgiving I've worn a Headley and Bennett apron when I've made that turkey. And there's all these like, associations to moments in nostalgia. And I want to be the young version of that. Like, and I think we are, but it takes time. You go to Japan, you go to a ryokan. Those guys have been there for hundreds of years. It's family run year over year. And it doesn't mean you can't make money, but it just is a different orientation. You're thinking about the long haul, not just the flash hot, sexy win today.

B (14:59)

I mean, for early stage founders who are thinking about wanting that kind of longevity with their brands and their companies, like, what is your rubric for how to think about that in the early days, what were the things that were the priorities for you that you thought, okay, this is what's going to set me up so that 10 years from now, 15 years from now, 20 years from now, 100 years from now, Headley and Bennett is still a thing.

A (15:26)

I was 24 years old, I had no money, I was working at a restaurant. Like, I didn't have some beautiful roadmap and a business plan. A lot of this was in my, I was the operator, I was marketing, I was sales, I was all the things. And I had to start cleaving off those roles as we grew and scaled because it would have just been chaos if it was only me. I think if a founder early on is like, hey, I want to exit this brand. I don't want to be in this forever. That's a decision and that's okay. And then there's another version which is, I want to have this be a long term business that's here forever and I want to be a part of it. Early on, I didn't even know that those two were options. I was only focused on building community and building great quality and making sure that our audience believed in what we were doing and that I was serving them correctly. The answers came for me later. But in day one, I was just obsessed with quality and community, and that was it. I think a lot of founders start and they're like, I want a big exit. And then they start ignoring things like quality and the value in having something that lasts longer. Because then your customer comes back, your LTV is higher. Because they're like, oh, I believe in this brand. I will go spend another time, another dollar. Like, getting a customer once is one thing. Getting a customer to come back again is a whole other ball of wax. Because they have to trust you. You can't just, like, screw them and leave. That doesn't work that way. Right. And I think when you're spending a lot of money on ads and the ads are great, but the quality's bad, they're never going to come back. What are you doing? It's like, it's too, like, flash in the pan. It's too short term.

B (17:00)

You're making these incredibly high quality aprons that don't need to be replaced all that often by design. Right? Yeah. So how are you building lifetime value with your consumers Both in the B2B space with, you know, chefs and cooks in restaurant kitchens, and then also in the direct to consumer space with your sort of everyday home cook?

A (17:21)

Yeah. So not a lot of people know this now because we're much bigger on D2C than we are on B2B. But we started as a B2B business. So everything was made to order for restaurants on demand. And we took a deposit. We'd, you know, get the money in, we'd make the product, we'd collect the deposit at the end, and we deliver the aprons. And it was awesome because we weren't spending money on ad spend, but, you know, it was harder work. You had to show up and get the order and do the transaction and all that. And in Covid, our whole world got flipped upside down, as so many did. And we decided to simplify B2B and focus on D2C. And D2C went up to 80%. It became 80% of the pie. So it was a huge change for our organization, but we already had 10 years under our belt or nine years under our belt of focusing on, like, great product, great quality. Now we were scaling it, and we realized quickly to your point, wait, people don't need that many aprons. Okay. What else can we offer them? We love our community. We love participating in other people's worlds. Let's do Some collabs. So we really started leaning into collaborations in an authentic way. So, you know, we've collaborated with Vans, madewell, Crocs, Grateful Dead, Love Shack, Fancy Hill House, Home. I mean, the list goes on and on. Rifle, paper company, Looney Tunes, like that. Just so many different brands that are awesome and iconic. NFL, Batman, like, just many, many brands. And it helped us kind of open our wings into all these other audiences. And it was awesome because it made people come back. So with NFL, if you're a San Francisco 49ers fan and you want a legit apron and you grill, you can come to Headley and Bennett. And we have the official Headley and Bennett times NFL apron. So people are apron junkies, right? They're coming back for every sweet collab

B (19:15)

that we're doing, even though they don't need more than one.

A (19:17)

Even though they'll need one. But now it's a little bit of about identity. You're like, let me show the world that I love a floral, cutesy girly. You know that that's my vibe. So they buy the rifle paper company, Headley a minute collab. It went from being just like a shoe to a status symbol. This is like an apron to a status symbol. Right. It's not just a functional thing you wear to protect yourself. It's actually part of someone's identity. And that's a super cool thing because the identity also is like respect and quality. So it's setting the tone and the bar that if you're rocking Headley and Bennett, you're legit. Which back to my statement about I want to be the all clad, the Le Creuset. You have a Le Creuset Dutch oven. That's a statement. You're like, I believe in quality. I believe in the real deal. I want a Vitamix blender, not just some basic blender. Right? That's Hedley and Bennett. So we're like, right in that tier. So that's how we did collabs. And then we were like, guys, we are not just an apron company. We're actually this place where people can come to get pro grade quality. That's beautiful. What else do people need at home? Well, they need really good knives. They need cutting boards. They need kitchen tools that don't suck and are actually designed by chefs that aren't just trying to hustle them for random. They want things that work okay. So we would work backwards from that and work with our community to build out all the new product lines. So now we have all those Things, but I developed every single one. And our team developed every single one. Sitting next to chefs. Just, like, day one. Like, it's not us in a vacuum somewhere. We are literally taking 3D prints to restaurants and saying, how does this, you know, spatula work? How does the shape of this ladle? Is this enough? Do we need to edit it? Okay, we need to change the shape of the ladle a little bit more. Like, that is how developed being. That's how development happens at Headley invented, which is, like, nerdy and psychotic. But it's amazing because the end result is legit, pro grade, beautiful gear. Well, I don't think we talk about it enough, frankly. Like, I don't even know if you knew that that that's how we do this thing.

B (21:17)

Like, how high quality it is.

A (21:18)

Like, how psychotic we are about sitting with a chef and working through every single detail. And that it takes us years. And we have an entire outsourced, like, agency that is industrial designers. But then we have this, like, crew of chefs that's merging with the industrial designers. Then there's us, and we're like, you know, like, if we're building an iPhone, but it's a ladle.

B (21:39)

Well, it's such a smart way to go about it and such a fascinating trajectory that your company has been on in that you are developing every new sku, every new product from the perspective of, let's go to the people who are at the absolute top of their craft. We're going to develop it for them, and then that's going to trickle down to the everyday consumer. And so then the consumer has the safety and the security of knowing. Well, I mean, you know, just Joseph Sentinel is using this. You know, Thomas Keller is using this knife. Surely it's good for me.

A (22:15)

Evan Funkee developed this bread knife. It must be. It must be epic. Just like his focaccia, you know, wow.

B (22:21)

Evan Funkey developed the bread knife. We really need a new bread knife at home.

A (22:25)

No, our bread knife is, like, sensational. He's like, it's a precision tool, Ellen. This is a surgical tool. Can you imagine Evan Funke, like, whispering this into my ear as we're talking about the bread knife? He's just like, you must make it perfect. I'm like, yes, Chef. The bar is high.

B (22:42)

It's gotta be exciting for you too, because it keeps you connected to the community from which you came.

A (22:48)

Yes.

B (22:48)

And I would imagine it also keeps them feeling really invested in the company and in the product line. I mean, I think a question that I Had too, is like you could have very comfortably stayed in the echelon of servicing high end restaurants and then, you know, expanding to the more mid range restaurants. I mean, the food industry in this, in just in this country alone is massive. You can have a huge company based on that alone. But at some point you had the wherewithal to say, okay, let's, let's expand to direct to consumer and let's go to the everyday home cook. Was there any concern that it would dilute the brand given that you had established it in the realm of this is for the highest end professional cook?

A (23:34)

Yeah, I love to be uncomfortable. We were, let's call it, we were comfortable in the restaurant world. We had our world. We had sort of tackled the brands we wanted to tackle. We were in the hotels we wanted to be in. And I just thought there's gotta be more, like, there's more out there. If we're making the best gear for the best chefs and the best restaurants in the country, like we outfit 9,000 plus restaurants in the US why can't we take that to the home cook? Why should the mom at home or the dad or the griller or the like super passionate, nerdy home cook not have a high quality item that we're making? We deserve to be in that space. And it was right around Covid, if you remember. It was a flood of kitchen companies coming into the world and everything was like pink and cream and beautiful. And then you got the product and it just didn't quite hit like you wanted it to. And I was like, that's not cool. And also, why the hell are we not doing that? Like, it had already been manifesting in our heads and in our future. We were like, we are more than an apron company. But we needed to believe in ourselves and believe that our audience would come along to this next thing and that Headleymanik could make a good knife, not just a good apron. So we leaped. It took time, it took resources, it took so much energy and effort because also it was Covid. So the supply chain world was a disaster, but we did it. We leaped out the window. Like I leaped out to start the aprons and I was like, we're doing this, we gotta do it. And we made an amazing freaking knife. It's not as expensive as everyone else's knives out there that are high end, but it's Japanese steel. But we did it in a way that an everyday person can have. A chef's knife designed by Josiah Citrin of Malice in Santa Monica. And that it is the quality that Joseph approves of. It's the thinness of Nancy Silverton's team saying, this is a good knife, or that, you know, Suzanne Goen's entire team is behind that knife. Like, there's all these people that helped along the way saying, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And it's beautiful because that makes me feel confident when I talk about our knife.

B (25:42)

What proportion of your overall revenue now do the kitchen tools account for?

A (25:49)

So knives are 10% and they've been out for two plus years. Kitchen tools launched this year, and that's rapidly growing, but we can't keep them in stock, so it'd probably be higher than it is right now. They're amazing. And you could basically take your entire kitchen tool drawer, dump it out, replace it with ours, and you wouldn't need other products. That's how we thought about it. It's like everything you need, nothing you don't. If you want to get some tchotchkes, that's on you. But the core essentials for your kitchen, that's where you come to us. We're not trying to sell you every gadget under the sun when it starts. We're trying to sell you the things you absolutely need to be a great cook.

B (26:25)

Your product development process is so interesting because you were, as we're talking about, you were entrenched in the community. That could really help you iterate on this in a really meaningful way. Is that advice that you would give to other founders out there who are trying to launch something of quality? Like, try to go find the people who really know the most about what it means for this thing to work at the highest level and try to pick their brains.

A (26:52)

Yeah, there's so many ways to do something, but I would say, hell yes. Think about it. Gwyneth Paltrow is an excellent example of. She went to all these different dermatologists, scientists, people that are brilliant and the thought leaders in their industry. And that's how she's developed amazing skincare. Like, you look at the best brands out there. Bobbi, the formula brand, they went and developed it with doctors, Right? So you go to the people that are the experts and you say, hey, I don't have all the answers. I want to fix this problem for you. What do you need and want and what do you hate? How can we fix it? That is how you come up with a great product, because you're actually fixing a problem for someone. You're asking them, what is your need? What is your want? What's not Working, we'll make it for you. And then, obviously, good branding, good quality materials, don't make a shitty product. No one's going to come back for it. But, like, it's just not that complicated when you break it down like that. Also, don't spend more than you make, you know, reinvest every penny back into the company. Early on, like, these were, like, little nuggets I had floating in my head when I started Headley and Bennett. And it really was maybe a slower path, but it was a strong foundation of a path.

B (28:07)

How long were you developing Headley and Bennett? And by I mean, like, actually executing on it, making aprons before you decided, okay, I got all in on this.

A (28:19)

I was working at Providence for about another year and a half before I had to quit, because I. I just kept trimming down my days at the restaurant until I was only working, like, two days a week. I had an office and I had one part time employee, and I would leave on Friday at 2, and I'd say, I have to go to the restaurant. Clock in. I'll see you on Monday. And I would put on my chef code and go to the restaurant, and then I'd work the weekend. So it was a crazy juggle, but I also felt like it was my connection to the industry, and I felt afraid of letting that go. So there was a come to Jesus moment that I had where I was like, okay, I either gotta go all the way or I can't keep juggling the two. So I went and talked to Simarusti, and I was like, the time has come. I think I need to just do this. And he's like, you're gonna crush it. Like, go. And he gave me, like, in his own way, his blessing and his, like, you know, go get it done.

B (29:18)

His nod of approval. Yeah, it's a Providence chef that we're talking about.

A (29:21)

Yes, this is a Providence Chef. And by the way, like, his entire team, every single person in that restaurant wears Hadley and Bennett aprons now. And we're working on getting them work shirts and chef coats. And so it's just this beautiful thing where he said, go get it done. And the minute I did that, the company exploded. But I had to have that leap of faith. And I think every business owner is going to have those leaps of faith along the way. I still have leaps of faith moments where I don't know the outcome, but not choosing an outcome is choosing an outcome. You have to actually go and make the decision, even if it's the wrong decision. Then you Fix it from there, and you keep going. But if you aren't doing anything, then nothing is happening. Life is gonna happen around you. And so I've always felt this need and urge to just keep the ball going, even if it's scary. Cause at least you're moving the ball. You're creating your effect. It's not life affecting you. You're, like, affecting life.

B (30:22)

I think it's abundantly clear within 30 seconds of listening to you speak. Like, you are just bleeding with passion and energy and chutzpah. And by your own admission, like, you have this comfort with being uncomfortable, but that's not something that comes naturally to the vast majority of people. Did that sense of resilience and like, go get it, tiger attitude, Was that innate? Had you always had that?

A (30:51)

Well, I was raised by a single mom, right? My parents got divorced super early on, and that definitely helped. And it helped through trial by fire. Not because it was like, woo, this is so easy. It was just like, I was thrust into life in a different way pretty early on. And I thought, instead of becoming a victim of this situation, like, how can I get something out of this? Like, what can I learn from this? And so I would help my mom with her bills. Like, I would write the checks. I wasn't paying the checks, but I was writing the checks and mailing the checks. And I started grocery shopping and doing things that were out of my comfort zone. But it was fun to learn it. And she was so supportive of me just helping her that she just was like, yeah, okay. It didn't make me think it was weird. Therefore, we both were just like, yep, Ellen's doing that. Ellen handles the finances. I was like, 13. You know that those are the things, little moments in time where someone believes in you and doesn't get in your own way and doesn't say, no, you can't do that. And it impacted me for the rest of my life. Like, I totally think I'm an entrepreneur because of my mother. And I have thanked her many times, and it, like, makes me emotional to say it out loud. But I'm like, thank you for getting a divorce. Because if that hadn't happened, I don't know that I'd be the entrepreneur that I am today. Because I saw her resilience and I was like, if you can do this, I can do anything. Because you got us this far.

B (32:18)

It is such a beautiful reframe on things. You know, it's something that you could look at as a source of trauma and pain, but you're Looking at it through the lens of how it empowered you and allowed you to build the life that you have. And I have to say, like, I wanted to bring this up because you've been really instrumental in my life and career as well. Your book was one of the major catalysts that got me to finally start my own talk show a few years ago. And I remember we were texting, and it's really. You know, it can be really hard to maintain motivation once you're in something. Right. And also, like, we're living in this world where it's hard not to be fickle about things.

A (33:02)

Right?

B (33:03)

You can feel really passionate about something, and then six months later, you're like. You feel like you're a little bit over it. And, you know, I think I was struggling with, like, there was elements. When you're an entrepreneur or when you're running your own show or whatever, there's elements that you don't want to do that you have to do to be able to do the stuff that you want to do. Right. And I remember you saying to me, like, when you're feeling it, like, I want you to finish this because you will say it better than I can, but, like, it's not. I have to do this.

A (33:30)

I get to do this.

B (33:31)

I get to do this. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that?

A (33:34)

Yeah. I think it's a perspective shift. It's just like, when life is really hard and you're like, what is happening? It's happening to me. It's all going down in flames. You're like, hold on. I live in the US I have so much more opportunity than a lot of places in the world. I am healthy. I have a head on my shoulders, My hands and arms work, and I get to wake up every day and try again. I get to do this. It's just like, a shift of I actually have a lot to be happy about. And if you can put your energy towards that and recognize it, then you kind of just are willing to keep going because you reframe it. You're not like, oh, the world is ending. It's actually like, no, you hit a bump. And guess what? You and everyone else in life also hits bumps, and it sucks, but it's part of the journey. So instead of, like, resisting, it's embrace it. Like, embrace that that happens and live to fight another day.

B (34:34)

I can't tell you how many times I've called on that perspective shift and how it works. You know, we all start to sweat the small stuff totally. And it's such an important perspective shift because invariably we've all been through something harder.

A (34:49)

Yeah.

B (34:49)

You know, and it's just a great reminder of, like, it's not that serious. Yeah, it's gonna be fine. And also, this thing that I'm now in and maybe griping about was the thing that I dreamt of being able to do once upon a time. You know?

A (35:04)

That's right, Exactly. You get to do this. Like, I have two little kids, they're the loves of my life. And there are times where I'm ready to throw myself out my one story window, like, I'm exhausted. But then I step back and I'm like, oh, my God, I get to do this. These are my little humans. And then I'm like, all right, get back in there. Like, go battle it out for dinner. And it's okay. It's okay to feel bad. It is okay to feel this idea that Instagram or the world makes us think, like, everything needs to be peachy keen or something is wrong is a lie. We are okay to feel not good. It is okay to have emotions go up and down, and you got to feel them, embrace them, and then move through it and get to the next emotion, which is maybe. Maybe you're really sad. And then you get angry. But angry is better than sad, because in angry, you're going to do something about it.

B (35:57)

You're motivated, you're motivated.

A (35:58)

And then your anger turns into enthusiasm because now you're like, shit, I'm figuring out the thing. And the next thing you know, you're like, I did it right? There's like, emotions to life, and it's okay to feel emotions. So I don't get mad when I'm mad. I'm just like, okay, this is what I'm feeling right now. Let's get through it. And tomorrow I'm gonna feel differently and keep going. Nothing is stagnant in life.

B (36:23)

I don't get mad when I'm mad. I'll be thinking about that one for a little while.

A (36:28)

Park that one in your pocket.

B (36:30)

Have you burnt out?

A (36:32)

Oh, I've totally had moments of like, oh, my God, yes, absolutely.

B (36:36)

How do you combat it?

A (36:38)

I don't know. Burnt out feels like you're crisp, you're done. You're like a fried pan, and there's nothing you can do about it. I think we are very capable human beings are capable of really hard things. And we have been. Not just this life, but look at our past. Like, we've gotten through some dark, dark times. And the way I Approach it is like, okay, I need to shift something in my world. And if I can shift it, I feel more in a causative state. Like I'm like causing an outcome, not just like receiving the effects of life. And it shifts me from like burnt out feeling to I'm doing something about it. If I feel like I'm doing something about it, then there's change. And as long as there's change, you can get somewhere better.

B (37:24)

Just get out of the paralysis.

A (37:25)

Yeah. That to me feels like the ultimate state of burnout. But when you're willing to look at it differently and say, I'm gonna find a way out of this, what can I do? What can I shift? What can I do tomorrow that's slightly different. Just a tweak. Like if you're sitting in a room full of papers and they're all flying around you and you don't know what to do, and you're just like, I'm confused. Grab one paper and start making a stack. And you grab another paper and next thing you know, there's not 5,000 papers flying around. You've got like four nice stacks in front of you and they're more, you know, you can look at them and deal with each stack. Fix one little thing. Okay. I'm exhausted. I'm overwhelmed. Okay. Go swimming. Okay, cool. All right. I feel a little better. All right, what can I do now? Okay, I can pick up the phone, I can make a to do list, and I can talk through this with my, you know, business partner. Okay, cool. All right, now I'm going to talk. You know, then you're like, you're not

B (38:12)

just like frozen to the next right thing.

A (38:15)

Yeah. And the next right thing might be the wrong thing. Who cares? At least you did something to get out of your nothingness state.

B (38:23)

HNB is 13 years old now.

A (38:25)

Yeah.

B (38:26)

Incredibly.

A (38:27)

Yeah.

B (38:28)

How do you think your identity has shifted? Your identity has shifted from like the early scrappy days to now being at the helm of this massive business and going from the person doing all the things to then leading all these people and now doing it with two kids in tower.

A (38:48)

Total transformation. Many, many. Meta. Metamorphosis. Yeah. A lot of butterfly moments of changing, which have been really difficult along the way. Going from being a full time entrepreneur where my entire world was working like so many hours a week, like 80 hours a week, to having a child is like the ultimate shift. And not just for a woman, but for a man too. Like, my husband is also apparent and he's gone through his own transformation on, you're just like, the whole world doesn't revolve around you anymore. It actually revolves around your children. And so you have to think about things very differently. I feel like it has made me a lot more grounded and anchored into what matters. And how do I prioritize my time and my energy? And the word balance sucks because nothing is balanced in life. But it's just like now I compartmentalize my efforts and my energy, and when I'm working, I'm working. When I'm with my kids, I'm with my kids. I'm not trying to do both things at once. That's when I, like, really break down. If you're trying to do a zoom call with your small child right here, you're just like, this is not going to happen. I remember I was on the phone pitching a major opportunity to the Container Store, and I had my 9 month old with me because my nanny hadn't made it that day and he was screaming bloody murder. And I'm like mid pitch on a zoom call on my phone because I had to go on a walk because he would not sit still at home. So I'm like on a walk, pushing the stroller, pitching the Container Store with like seven people on the call and he's screaming in the background. And I was crumbling inside thinking, like, how did we get here? And then I was like, you know what? He's an amazing human being and he's my kid. And my head of sales is on the line and she's going to take this. And I was like, I'm putting myself on pause. You guys have this go. And they wrapped the call and they did the thing and it all worked out, but I had to let go so that other people could handle things. And that's part of the journey. Change is other people need to help. And there's a lot of great people out there. But don't let go of the vision. You can bring everyone in and their mother, but make sure that the vision is still nice and tight. Because vision means seeing something that others can't see yet. And that's kind of the craziest part of being an entrepreneur. You, like, imagine it in your head and then you see it come to life. But you had to believe it up here before you saw it out there. And then everyone else is like, oh, my God, what a great, amazing company that Hadley invented is. But back in the day, it was just like me and my Mini Cooper working at Providence, you know, different times. So don't lose that. That Vision.

B (41:28)

Since we're back in the beginning times, a signature question that we like to ask to end us off. Can you name something that you did in those first six months of Headley and Bennett being in existence that you feel like had a really lasting impact on the success and trajectory of the company?

A (41:44)

It's funny. Having the obsession and connection to our community from day one is something that the company has never stopped doing. And if you look at how we do collaborations, it comes from the roots of me sitting with Joseph Centeno and saying, what do you need? What do you want? What do you hate? What's not working in an apron? That's how we did face masks in Covid. That's how we develop crocs. With crocs. Like, that's how we made vans shoes. Be the vans amazing collab that was, like, four years running was one of their best collabs ever. Like, we created all these things because we really listened, truly listened to our community and collaborated on a deep level and never thought we have all the answers.

B (42:28)

Community is such a buzzword these days.

A (42:31)

Such a buzzword. But back in the day, nobody talked about it. To me, a community was just a friend. It was like, you're a real person, and I'm a real person, and you might need something that I make, but if you don't need it today, that's okay. When you need it, you come to us for aprons.

B (42:44)

You built it among the chefs in the B2B because you were a part of that community, and you were having those conversations one on one. How did you build that community in the D2C space?

A (42:54)

I mean, in the DTC space, it became scaling that digitally, right? It was like finding ways to be present through Instagram, through TikTok to this day, which is wild and crazy, and maybe some people on my team think it's nuts, but, like, I will write letters to our B2B audience that go out to, you know, hundreds of thousands of people as if I'm sending it to you. I'm like, hi, I wanted to tell you. I just wanted this amazing thing, and here's all the things I learned from it. And then I get responses, and then I respond back. So it's like scaled closeness, you know, it's like, you can trademark that. Like, I am writing the letter. I'm handing it off to my social team and to my digital team and to our outsourced agencies and all this, like, layers of layers of layers that push out the message. But then it comes back, and it's still just me. And I reply. And then I loop in my sales team, and I'm like, I love that, you know, that happened. That's so cool. And they give me experiences. Like, people write paragraphs back to me, and then they're like, and by the way, I need some aprons. Connect me with whoever. And I'm like, thank you for sharing that. Also, looping in Tina, she's got this for you. And that, to me, is like a way of having the touch points. But then it's still allowing the team to do their thing. And then on social, it's like, I'm constantly going to restaurants and I'm meeting with chefs. I'm meeting with Sean Brock still. Still to this day. But also then our team is taking it and pumping it out through all of our channels, through our almost a million followers on TikTok to our hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram. Or I have a platform on Instagram as well. So I have followers that follow me to see the journey through Ellen's eyes. So, yeah, you can still be human and scale. Just like, don't lose your humanity when you scale.

B (44:45)

And you gotta maintain that personal touch.

A (44:47)

I really think you do. Or else you're just like a cog in the wheel. You're just like a, you know, just another company out there. You can't buy the love, but you gotta maintain the love, right? And as you scale, you wanna keep that humanity and that special something. Cause we've all seen it. Brands get sold. And then you're like, ugh, those burgers aren't what they used to be. And that's the beginning of the end for that company. I don't want that to happen to us.

B (45:13)

I don't think it's going to.

A (45:16)

Thank you.

B (45:17)

You're a delight. Thank you for being here. I'm so glad you're a personal touch point in my life.

A (45:24)

Thank you for having me. And also shout out to Shopify. Our entire company functions off of Shopify, and they've been with us since day one. We were a tiny little user, and now we're a bigger user. But we started with one order, and now we have so many more orders and we've sold millions of aprons through them. So I feel grateful for all of the people in the businesses that have scaled with us.

B (45:47)

Thank you for that plug and thanks to all of you for tuning in. Please like and subscribe and drop us a comment below. Let us know what gets you off the couch and be sure to tune in every week. We constantly have new episodes dropping. Till then, See you next time.