Short Wave – "A Very, Very Big Deal." Countries Take On Fossil Fuels

Date: December 17, 2025
Hosts: Emily Kwong (NPR), with guest Julia Simon (NPR’s Climate Desk)

Episode Overview

This episode covers the dramatic and pivotal moments at COP30, the 30th UN Climate Change Conference held in Belém, Brazil. As the global summit unfolds amid unexpected chaos—a major fire—NPR’s Julia Simon brings first-hand reporting on a new international effort by a coalition of "high ambition" countries to transition away from fossil fuels. With the main UN process stalling, these nations chart a parallel path, planning the Santa Marta Conference and the push for a Fossil Fuel Treaty, potentially shifting the landscape of climate action.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. COP30: Tension, Fire, and Frustration with the Status Quo

• Opening Scenes: Julia Simon recounts the chaos of a fire in the conference tent, disrupting the closing moments just as a big announcement was due ([00:39-02:09]).
• The Core Problem: The global climate negotiations (COPs) are consensus-driven, meaning a single country's disagreement can block progress on key issues, notably the transition away from fossil fuels.
  • Quote, Juan Carlos Montery (Panama): "Every time that we come to this cup, we try to re debate science. We try to avoid talking about fossil fuels. It's really, really stupid. It's like trying to deal with a patient that has Covid but not treating the patient for Covid." ([05:23])
• Frustration: Many countries—especially those already feeling severe climate impacts—are fed up with the slow pace and lack of direct action on fossil fuels.
  • Several oil producers (Norway, Mexico) support a fossil fuel phaseout, while others (notably Saudi Arabia) oppose it, leading to gridlock ([06:15]).

2. The Santa Marta Conference: A New Coalition Rises

• A New Approach: Frustrated by lack of progress at COP, a group of around 20 ‘high ambition’ countries, led by Colombia and the Netherlands, plan a separate summit: the “Santa Marta Conference: the First International Conference on the Just Transition Away from Fossil Fuels” ([07:24-08:49]).

  • Quote, Andres Gomez (Colombia): "We have these high ambition countries...convinced that we need to do something really quickly, and we are going to do that in April." ([08:15])

• Why Not Stick With COP?: The Paris Agreement set global temperature goals, but offered no detailed plan—and current national pledges aren’t nearly enough to meet targets ([09:28-10:22]).

  • Quote, Nikki Reich (Center for International Environmental Law): "The existing framework, the Paris Agreement, it doesn't contain a step by step playbook for how we're going to combat climate change or phase out fossil fuels." ([09:47])

• Santa Marta’s Goals: To create actionable, equitable pathways for phasing out fossil fuels, including:

  • Re-directing fossil fuel subsidies toward renewables and transition support.
  • Ensuring fair labor transitions for tens of millions currently employed by fossil fuel industries ([10:27-11:11]).
  • Quote, Irene Velez Torres (Colombia Environment Minister): "The idea of the Santa Marta conference is to have this first space in which we are completely clear that the phasing out is necessary because it's not easy. No one is saying that it is easy, but if we don't face the problems, we cannot build the solutions." ([08:49])

• Concrete Action: Dutch Minister Sophie Hermans underscores that the Santa Marta meeting is about implementing the ambition declared in Paris.

  • Quote: "In Paris, 10 years ago, we all said, okay, we have this ambition. But after you have said you have the ambition, you also have to come to action. And that's what we are doing now." ([11:37])

3. The Fossil Fuel Treaty: Toward Legal Commitment

• What is it?: A proposed international treaty—legally binding—for a “just transition” away from fossil fuels.

  • Already, 18 countries (including Colombia and Cambodia) and several large cities (Chicago, London, Kolkata) have expressed support ([12:02]).

• What’s Next: Santa Marta will lay groundwork for drafting this treaty and for involving more countries in the legal push ([12:49]).

  • Quote, Jessica Green (Univ. of Toronto): "We need to sort of smaller groups of countries, coalitions of the willing to forge ahead because the laggards are not willing to get with the program." ([13:04])

• Industry Pushback: The American Petroleum Institute (API) argues such efforts distract from “innovating to deliver the energy the world needs with a smaller environmental footprint” ([13:21]).

4. Emotional Moment: Despite Fire, the Announcement Happens

• After the Fire: The next morning, the announcement proceeds. Colombia's Environment Minister stands with other envoys to declare the Santa Marta Conference ([14:09-14:51]).
  • Quote, Irene Velez Torres: "This declaration is grounded in a simple scientific truth. Fossil fuels are the primary driver of climate crisis. For that reason, the government of Colombia, in alliance with the government of the Netherlands, announces today the first international conference on just transition away from fossil fuels." ([14:22])
• Reactions: Organizers and attendees express hope and emotion.
  • Quote, Andres Gomez: "That was so moving and I don't know, like very inspiring. Like the perfect 10 for a cop that wasn't promising anything. Probably this would be the most important outcome of this cup." ([14:59-15:04])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Julia Simon, on the urgency: "We came to Berlin with a clear goal. Keep the 1.5 limit within reach. Of course, align with science. This is powerful war science. We need to trust science." ([02:14])

• (On the new conference) "Concrete measures to help countries actually deliver on the goals of the Paris Agreement? Well, that's the goal, right, Is to make the transition away from fossil fuels really happen." —Julia Simon ([11:17])

• Jessica Green highlights the moment’s significance: "This is a very, very big deal." ([12:49])

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:39-02:09]: Julia Simon describes the fire disrupting COP30, forcing evacuation and uncertainty.
• [04:43-06:49]: Discussion of why fossil fuels are not named/targeted explicitly in previous agreements, and the resulting frustration.
• [07:24-08:49]: Introduction to the Santa Marta conference and its purpose.
• [09:28-10:22]: Limitations of the Paris Agreement for real action.
• [11:17]: Plans for equitable measures in the transition away from fossil fuels.
• [12:02]: First explanation of the proposed Fossil Fuel Treaty.
• [14:09-14:51]: The Santa Marta Conference announcement finally delivered after the fire.
• [15:04]: Emotional response from the Colombian delegation.

Conclusion & Takeaway

While COP30 failed to deliver a collective commitment to end fossil fuels, a vanguard group of countries is breaking new ground, organizing the Santa Marta Conference and planning a “Fossil Fuel Treaty.” Their aim: to turn ambition into actionable, equitable transition strategies, and—crucially—to write binding international law. Despite setbacks and opposition, this episode marks a possible inflection point in global climate politics.

For listeners: If you want to follow this new front in climate action, watch for the Santa Marta Conference in April 2026. The momentum from COP30 could shape the future of fossil fuel policy worldwide.

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