How science is taking tripping mainstream

Summary

Podcast Summary: “How science is taking tripping mainstream”

Short Wave – NPR
Host: Regina Barber
Guest: John Hamilton
Air Date: May 6, 2026
Duration: ~14 minutes

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Episode Overview

This episode of Short Wave dives into the mainstreaming of psychedelic drug research, focusing on how scientific breakthroughs—and shifting societal attitudes—are helping substances once synonymous with 1960s counterculture emerge as potential treatments for depression, PTSD, and other psychiatric conditions. Science correspondent John Hamilton joins Regina Barber to uncover the renaissance in psychedelic research, the pivotal figures driving it, and why modern treatment rooms for these experiences feel a lot more like wellness retreats than clinical labs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Cultural & Scientific Shift

(00:50–03:26)

• Historically, psychedelics were stigmatized, associated with danger and recreational abuse.
• John Hamilton notes the turnaround: “Two things, science and society... Researchers have been taking a whole nother look at drugs like psilocybin… the emphasis hasn't been on just expanding consciousness these days, it's been on treating conditions like depression and PTSD.” (01:11)
• There’s growing scientific evidence that these drugs can treat psychiatric disorders, leading to greater mainstream acceptance—even at government levels.
  • Notable Moment: President Trump jokingly asks about ibogaine, a hallucinogen, while signing an executive order to fast-track research into psychedelic therapies. (01:38)

2. Research Restrictions and Early Experiments

(02:37–03:26)

• Regina and John discuss the war on drugs backlash; research was stifled for decades.
• The 1960s saw more individual experimentation than serious scientific study, with rare academic exceptions (e.g., Timothy Leary).
• Only recently have rigorous, controlled studies flourished.

3. The UK’s Role in Psychedelic Science

(03:26–05:41)

• The Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London is highlighted as a hub legitimizing the field.
  • John Hamilton’s reporting trip to the UK detailed their pivotal impact.

4. The Pioneers: Carhart-Harris and Arizo

(05:41–07:19)

• Robin Carhart-Harris (now at UCSF): Sparked early by a personal experience with LSD.

  • “I was very young. I was only 14. So that was the initial spark of wonder.” – Robin Carhart-Harris (05:59)

• David Arizo: Psychiatrist interested in addiction, teamed up with Robin for groundbreaking psilocybin research.

• Both researchers visited Johns Hopkins for guidance on administering psychedelics in clinical settings, then pioneered studies in the UK.

  • Memorable Quote:
    "I remember how extremely excited we were… we were really in a big group hug of excitement at Johns Hopkins, and we're like, we want to do these studies you guys are doing." (Robin Carhart-Harris, 07:08)

• Their first psilocybin study produced preliminary evidence for its antidepressant effects, igniting a “stream of papers” and exciting brain scanning research.

5. Scientific Discoveries: How Psychedelics Affect the Brain

(07:55–08:35)

• Psilocybin disrupts the brain’s “default mode network,” which governs self-reflection and daydreaming.
• This breakdown may underlie the ego-dissolving effects and new perspectives often reported by users—potentially aiding the processing of trauma.

6. Skepticism, Acceptance & Expansion of Therapeutic Indications

(08:35–09:19)

• Initial skepticism wanes as robust, peer-reviewed evidence mounts (New England Journal of Medicine, etc.).
• Psychedelic therapies are being considered for anxiety disorders, addiction, PTSD, even anorexia.

7. Ketamine as a Gateway to Psychedelic Therapy

(09:19–11:15)

• Though not a classic psychedelic, ketamine’s legal medical use paved the way for wider research.
• Ketamine acts as a “dissociative,” enabling rapid brain change and relief from severe depression.
  • Notable Patient Testimony:
    “He felt that he had become back in touch with a sense of wonder and curiosity that he had lost—almost a bit like [a] childlike, curious sense of wonder towards the world.” – Robin Carhart-Harris, recounting a patient’s ketamine experience (09:56)
• 2019: US/UK approve nasal spray ketamine for depression.
• Imperial College London establishes world’s first academic Center for Psychedelic Research.

8. Therapeutic Protocols: Set, Setting, and the Therapy Experience

(11:15–12:56)

• Treatments aren’t just “take a pill and go home.”

• “Set and setting”: The psychological state (set) and environmental context (setting) matter immensely.

  • Rooms are made comfortable: “We convert that so that those lights are off, and we’ve got, like, a salt lamp… colored mood lamp… drapes… maybe a little vaporizer with frankincense bubbling out into the room. And the music.” (Robin Carhart-Harris, 11:50)

• A curated playlist is used to help guide the session:

  • Song titles: Articulate Silences, Lost in the Humming Air, When We Forgive (12:44)
  • Quote: “Music is what [Robin] called the hidden therapist in a session.” (12:56)

• The session combines:

  • Medication (psychedelic)
  • Talk therapy
  • A touch of “spiritual journey”

• Most experiences are beneficial, though some involve “bad trips.”

9. Future Directions

(13:25–13:34)

• Psychedelic therapy is poised to become more widely available in clinical settings.
  • “And it may soon be coming to a clinic near you. Stay tuned, Gina.” – John Hamilton (13:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Things really have changed a lot since then.” – John Hamilton (00:58)
• “I remember dare. What has changed then?” – Regina Barber (01:02)
• "I was very young. I was only 14. So that was the initial spark of wonder." – Robin Carhart-Harris (05:59)
• “We convert [the treatment room] so that those lights are off, and we've got, like, a salt lamp, you know, glowing … drapes … vaporizer with frankincense bubbling out into the room. And the music.” – Robin Carhart-Harris (11:50)
• “Music is what he called the hidden therapist in a session.” – John Hamilton (12:56)
• “It may soon be coming to a clinic near you. Stay tuned, Gina.” – John Hamilton (13:29)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:50 – Regina and John introduce the psychedelic science renaissance
• 01:38 – U.S. government’s changing stance, White House executive order on psychedelic therapy
• 05:41 – Introduction of Robin Carhart-Harris and his early influences
• 07:08 – The first trip to Johns Hopkins and landmark psilocybin study
• 07:59 – Explanation of psilocybin’s effect on the default mode network
• 09:56 – Patient’s transformative ketamine experience
• 11:50 – Robin Carhart-Harris describes the “set and setting” protocol
• 12:44 – The psychedelic therapy playlist
• 13:25 – Psychedelic therapy’s expanding clinical future

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Tone & Language

• Engaging, light, and approachable (science for everyone)
• Balanced blend of humor (“Another David?”), curiosity, and rigor
• Personal stories (“I was only 14…”) make the science relatable

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Summary

This episode expertly illustrates how psychedelics are reemerging as serious medical tools, thanks to dedicated researchers and shifting attitudes. We learn about the scientific, institutional, and therapeutic foundations now being laid for these drugs’ potential, witnessing their journey from counterculture to cutting-edge psychiatry. For listeners curious about both the science and the culture, “How science is taking tripping mainstream” is a concise, engaging primer on the psychedelic renaissance.

Transcript

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[Regina Barber]

You're listening to Short Wave from NPR. Hey, shortwavers, Regina Barber here. When it comes to research on psychedelic drugs, the times are a changing. At least that's what I hear from my psychonaut colleague John Hamilton. Hey, John.

[John Hamilton]

Hey, how's it going, Gina?

[Regina Barber]

So you cover brain science and you're here to talk about why mind bending drugs from the 60s are having a moment right now, right, John?

[John Hamilton]

I am. And I gotta say, things really have changed a lot since then.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, for a long time, psychedelic drugs were seen in the mainstream as like, dangerous, not helpful. I remember dare. What has changed then?

[John Hamilton]

Well, two things, science and society. You know, if you look at the past couple of decades, researchers have been taking a whole nother look at drugs like psilocybin, which is the substance, of course, that makes some mushrooms hallucinogenic magic. And the emphasis hasn't been on just expanding consciousness these days, it's been on treating conditions like depression and ptsd.

[Regina Barber]

So do these drugs actually work for ptsd depression?

[John Hamilton]

There's more and more evidence that they do. And that has led to a lot more mainstream acceptance of these drugs. You know, even at the White House, I should say, listen to this cut from President Trump talking about ibogaine, which is this powerful hallucinogen that's also known as the leaf of God. Can I have some, please?

[Robin Carhart-Harris]

I'll take.

[Regina Barber]

Was he joking?

[John Hamilton]

Only sort of. I mean, it's not like he was about to go pop a capsule of ibogaine. But he made that remark as he was signing an executive order to speed up evaluation of psychedelic drugs for treating psychiatric conditions. That order is telling agencies like the Food and Drug Administration and the National Institutes of Health to seriously consider drugs like psilocybin or LSD or mdma. Oh, and of course, ibogaine, which seems to be a personal favorite of HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. All of this is a huge change because there's been this strict prohibition on psychedelic drug use and research, and that dates back to President Nixon.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, that was part of the whole, like backlash to the 1960s counterculture. Right. Like, was there more scientific research on these drugs before the ban?

[John Hamilton]

Not a lot. The military looked into using them as weapons. Oh. During the 60s, though, what you had was mostly individuals experimenting with their own brains. You did have a few academics, like the famous Timothy Leary at Harvard. He was really more of an advocate than a researcher. These days, what you've got is serious scientists asking whether psychedelic drugs can really help people with a range of disabling psychiatric disorders. I actually just got back from a reporting trip to the UK where I visited a place that has played a central role in sort of legitimizing psychedelic studies. It's called the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London.

[Regina Barber]

Today on the show, why psychedelic drugs are having a scientific renaissance and how

[John Hamilton]

a small team of scientists in the UK helped bring these drugs into the scientific mainstream.

[Regina Barber]

You're listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr.

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[Regina Barber]

All right, John, earlier we talked about the shift in overall attitudes about psychedelics. How did that shift happen that let hallucinogenic drugs go from being counterculture icons to like potentially the next big thing in psychiatry?

[John Hamilton]

It began in the early 2000s. You had a few scientists in the US and Europe who began studying how these drugs actually affected the brain. There was a guy, the late Roland Griffiths at Johns Hopkins. You had Dr. David Nutt at the University of Bristol and then Imperial College London, where he still works. And by 2010, David Nutt was in charge of these two young researchers who would play a major role in showing what psychedelic drugs could did in the brain and how they could be used to treat psychiatric disorders.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, that's not that long ago. Who are these two young researchers?

[John Hamilton]

Well, one of them was a guy named Robin Carhart Harris. He's a neuropsychologist. He's now at the University of California, San Francisco. Robin told me that his interest in brain science actually started when he took LSD for the first time.

[Robin Carhart-Harris]

I was very young. I was only 14. So that was the initial spark of wonderful. And I guess psychedelic science crystallized as something I could do just ahead of my PhD in psychopharmacology.

[Regina Barber]

Wow. This was like a gateway to a PhD. It led to a career studying psychedelics.

[John Hamilton]

In this case, it did, Gina. But as you probably know, there are other paths to academic success. True.

[Regina Barber]

I had a different one.

[John Hamilton]

That brings us to the other young researcher at Imperial College London, a guy named Dr. David Arizo.

[Regina Barber]

Another David?

[John Hamilton]

Another David. He was a psychiatrist from Denmark who came to the UK to study addiction instead. Or maybe I should say. In addition, David ended up working with Robin on the first formal study that used psilocybin to treat depression. The idea was so new when they did this that they weren't even sure how they should administer the drug in a medical setting. So David told me that he and Robin made a trip to Johns Hopkins, which was one of the few places on earth at the time that had any experience with experiments like this.

[Regina Barber]

Wow.

[Robin Carhart-Harris]

I remember how extremely excited we were. We were really in a big group hug of excitement at Johns Hopkins, and we're like, we want to do these studies you guys are doing.

[John Hamilton]

And when David and Robin got back to London, they did their psilocybin study and it produced preliminary evidence that the drug really did help with depression. And as it turned out, that was just the beginning. This team at Imperial College London went on to become an incredibly productive group. They published this stream of papers on psilocybin as well as other hallucinogenic compounds like MDMA and dmt. These studies looked at how the drugs affected human behavior. But they also used the latest brain scanning technology to show how each of these drugs was altering the way that the brain worked.

[Regina Barber]

So how did it alter the brain? Can you give me some examples of what they discovered?

[John Hamilton]

Absolutely. One finding was that psilocybin causes a kind of breakdown of the brain's default mode network. That's a network that becomes active when we're daydreaming rather than like focusing on a specific task, studying for a test. Something like that the Default Mode network appears to be critical to things like our sense of self. So the fact that it breaks down when we're tripping, but may explain why people report seeing themselves from a different perspective or being able to put some traumatic event in a different light.

[Regina Barber]

Wow. Okay, so were these accepted by the scientific community, These results? Like, was there pushback?

[John Hamilton]

Scientists can be a pretty skeptical bunch, but they do believe in data. And as more and more of these high quality studies got published, the scientific and the medical community got more and more interested in this idea that psychedelic drugs really might help somebody who had an anxiety disorder or depress ptsd, drug addiction, I mean, even anorexia.

[Regina Barber]

Wow.

[John Hamilton]

And eventually the studies from Robin and David's team, they started appearing in really prestigious journals like the New England Journal of Medicine. I should mention that those publications have continued even now that Robin has moved to UCSF, which he did in 2021. So that was one reason psychedelics got more mainstream. Another was ketamine.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, ketamine. We've actually done stories on ketamine on Shore Wave, but it's not quite as psychedelic.

[John Hamilton]

Right, right. It is at least not a classic psychedelic. It's considered a dissociative drug because it can cause this sense of being detached from your own body. You know, ask somebody who takes it at a club, they will tell you that. Exactly.

[Regina Barber]

Wow.

[John Hamilton]

In the brain, though, ketamine acts a lot like a psychedelic drug in that it seems to open up this window when the brain is able to learn and change really rapidly. David told me about the experience that one of his patients had. This is a patient with depression, and his description, you know, it sounds pretty trippy.

[Robin Carhart-Harris]

He was describing a great sense of empowerment was the main thing. He felt that he had become back in touch with a sense of wonder and curiosity that he had lost almost a bit like childlike, curious sense of wonder towards the world.

[Regina Barber]

Wow. And that was life changing.

[John Hamilton]

It was to him. Yeah. And the thing about ketamine is that it has been widely available as an anesthetic since about 1970, at least in the U.S. so unlike psychedel, it was pretty easy to get legally and to use in experiments. About 20 years ago, scientists at the National Institute of Health showed that ketamine could help people with severe depression. You know, this is depression that hadn't responded to any other treatment. And in 2019, both the US and the UK approved a nasal spray version of ketamine for treating depression. That kind of opened the door to testing some of these classic psychedelic drugs for Psychiatric disorders. I should also mention that in 2019, Imperial College London founded something called the center for Psychedelic Research, which became the first academic center focused on the use of psychedelics in mental health care. Robin ran the center until he left for ucsf, and now David is running it.

[Regina Barber]

So how does this psychedelic treatment work? I mean, do they just send you home with this nasal spray or some pills?

[John Hamilton]

I would hope not. Robin and David helped develop this sort of protocol for giving these drugs. It involves what they call set and setting. Right. You prepare a person psychologically for this experience. Then the drug is administered under supervision in a special treatment room. Robin told me the idea is to create in this room the sort of opposite of a typical treatment facility. You know, with its bright lights and stainless steel and all that.

[Robin Carhart-Harris]

We convert that so that those lights are off, and we've got, like, a salt lamp, you know, glowing a couple of these, and maybe a sort of colored mood lamp on the floor. So. So that would be the first thing. And then you'd notice that there are some drapes, you know, some soft, silken drapes. And, yeah, we might have a little vaporizer with frankincense bubbling out into the room. And the music.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, this is giving me, like, a visual of, I don't know, those kind of, like, crystal shops and stuff where they're playing, like, mellow music.

[John Hamilton]

Yeah, it has that vibe, right?

[Regina Barber]

Yeah. Incense, you know.

[John Hamilton]

One of the early members of the scientific team created an entire playlist that's meant to help guide people on their psychedelic journey.

[Regina Barber]

I want to hear this playlist now.

[John Hamilton]

I want to say, oh, it's on Spotify. I'll send it to you. And it's got titles like Articulate Silences, oh, my gosh, Lost in the Humming Air and When We Forgive.

[Regina Barber]

Wow. I definitely want this.

[John Hamilton]

Yeah. Robin told me that in this setting, you know, music is what he called the hidden therapist in a session. Meanwhile, of course, there's an actual therapist who's talking to the person about their life or their depression or their addiction. So it's an interesting combination of medication, talk therapy, and something you might call, I don't know, spiritual journey. Every now and then, somebody does have a bad experience, we should note, but most people say they come away helped.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah. This makes sense why psychedelic therapy is having a moment right now.

[John Hamilton]

Right. And it may soon be coming to a clinic near you. Stay tuned, Gina.

[Regina Barber]

Okay. Thank you, John. And thank you for that playlist you're gonna send me later. I'm gonna stay tuned for that.

[John Hamilton]

It's on the way. Gina

[Regina Barber]

if you liked this episode and you wanna hear more about psychedelic research, check our show Notes for our Psychedelic Drug series. If Shortwave is part of your weekly ritual, make it official on the NPR app. You'll get every episode. The moment it's ready, just turn on notifications and we'll handle the rest. Download the NPR app today and in the meantime, follow us wherever else you may be listening from. This episode was produced by Rachel Carlson and edited by our showrunner, Rebecca Ramirez. Tyler Jones checked the facts. Khwesi Lee was the audio engineer. I'm Regina Barber. Thank you for listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr.

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