On July 4th, Are You A Thrill- Or Chill-Seeker?

Summary

Short Wave Podcast Summary
Episode: On July 4th, Are You A Thrill- Or Chill-Seeker?
Release Date: July 1, 2025
Hosts: Emily Kwong and Regina Barber
Guest: Ken Carter, Clinical Psychologist at Oxford College of Emory University

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Introduction to Sensation Seeking

In this episode of Short Wave, hosts Emily Kwong and Regina Barber delve into the psychology behind why some individuals thrive on high-adrenaline activities while others prefer calm and controlled environments. The focus centers around Fourth of July celebrations, particularly the varying experiences and emotional reactions people have to fireworks displays.

Ken Carter shares his personal experience growing up on the Fourth of July, contrasting his cautious nature with his brother's enthusiasm for fireworks:

"I remember sort of thinking about like what I would do if something went wrong, like where the emergency room was going to be, hoping I wasn't going to blow my hand up, that kind of stuff. I was a very cautious kid."
— Ken Carter (00:34)

Sensation Seeking: Thrill vs. Chill Seekers

Ken Carter explains the concept of sensation seeking, a personality trait that determines an individual's propensity to seek out novel and intense experiences. He categorizes people into thrill seekers, chill seekers, and those who fall in the middle.

Thrill Seekers:
Individuals who actively pursue high-risk activities such as lighting illegal fireworks, seeking the largest explosions and most vibrant colors. They often push boundaries and seek out chaotic experiences.

Chill Seekers:
People who prefer to enjoy experiences from a safe distance, often prepared with safety measures like having a fire extinguisher on hand during fireworks displays.

Middle Ground:
Most individuals fall somewhere between thrill and chill seekers, enjoying the experience while occasionally feeling nervous.

"I've always been amazed how two people can have the same experience but kind of have a different emotional reaction from it."
— Ken Carter (01:47)

The Science Behind Sensation Seeking

Ken delves into the brain chemistry that distinguishes sensation seekers from others. He highlights two key chemicals:

1. Cortisol:
   A stress hormone that facilitates the body's fight, flight, or freeze response. Low and average sensation seekers produce higher levels of cortisol in chaotic situations, leading to increased stress.

2. Dopamine:
   A neurotransmitter associated with pleasure. High sensation seekers produce more dopamine and less cortisol during high-stimulus experiences, allowing them to enjoy activities without significant stress.

"When these high sensation seekers are seeing these fireworks that are illegal from five states away and they're blowing up, they're experiencing a lot of pleasure but not that much stress."
— Ken Carter (04:00)

Nature vs. Nurture: The Origins of Sensation Seeking

The discussion moves to the factors that contribute to sensation seeking, emphasizing both genetic and environmental influences.

• Genetics:
  Sensation seeking has a substantial genetic component, often running in families. This explains why thrill-seeking behaviors can appear within family lines.

• Environment:
  Early life experiences, particularly unpredictable or chaotic environments, can influence the development of high sensation seeking.

Ken also touches on how certain life experiences in adulthood, such as trauma, can alter an individual's sensation seeking tendencies.

"There's some genetics involved in it for sure, but the environment plays a piece as well."
— Ken Carter (05:12)

Sensation Seeking in Adulthood and Career Choices

Ken discusses how high sensation seekers often gravitate towards careers that involve a degree of chaos and risk, such as firefighting, emergency response, and military service. These individuals utilize their ability to remain calm in high-stress situations as a superpower in their professional lives.

"A lot of high sensation seekers are drawn to those careers because of their superpower of being able to be calm in those chaotic experiences."
— Ken Carter (05:48)

The Sensation Seeking Survey

Ken introduces his 40-point Sensation Seeking Survey, based on modifications of Zuckerman's original research. The survey assesses four categories:

1. Thrill and Adventure Seeking:
   Engaging in activities that involve physical risk and excitement.

2. Experience Seeking:
   Pursuing novel and intense experiences through the mind and senses, such as adventure travel or trying exotic foods.

3. Disinhibition:
   The propensity to act impulsively without considering consequences.

4. Boredom Susceptibility:
   The intolerance of repetitive or monotonous situations, leading to irritation when bored.

"The four categories... number one is called thrill and adventure seeking... experience seeking... disinhibition... boredom susceptibility."
— Ken Carter (07:17)

Personal Insights and Anecdotes

The hosts and guest take the survey themselves to illustrate the spectrum of sensation seeking:

• Emily Kwong scores an 8 out of 40, identifying herself as a low sensation seeker.

  "I'm actually at an eight out of 40. It's quite low."
  — Ken Carter (02:03)

• Regina Barber shares her high score of 32, recounting an incident where her thrill-seeking led to a back injury from sprinting in extreme heat. She notes her lack of stress response during the incident:

  "My score was 32 and I can tell you that I'm laid up in bed right now with a thrown out back because I decided to go sprinting in 90 degree heat on Wednesday... I really wasn't stressed."
  — Regina Barber (08:35)

Ken comments on Regina's experience, noting that high sensation seekers often recover quickly from injuries and are less likely to end up in emergency rooms.

"A lot of high sensation seekers will say that will actually bounce back quicker when they do have an injury and they're ready to do it again."
— Ken Carter (09:17)

Advancements Since Ken's Book

Since publishing his book Inside the Minds of Thrill Seekers, Daredevils, and Adrenaline Junkies in 2019, Ken has explored new dimensions of sensation seeking, particularly focusing on how non-sensation seekers can benefit from adopting certain traits of high sensation seekers. He emphasizes that thrill seekers are not merely adrenaline junkies but individuals who seek meaningful experiences and clarity through intense activities.

"They need to be able to focus really well... the emotional regulation that you garner to be able to do those complicated things can last even after the event."
— Ken Carter (12:12)

Practical Advice for Listeners

As the Fourth of July approaches, Ken offers advice for individuals based on their sensation seeking tendencies:

• High Sensation Seekers:
  Embrace your love for adventure and new experiences, ensuring safety measures are in place.

• Low Sensation Seekers:
  Find and engage in activities that inspire awe and joy for you personally, without feeling pressured to conform to high-risk behaviors.

"I always tell people to lean into your awe, find the thing that feels awesome for you and do that unapologetically."
— Ken Carter (13:43)

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Ken emphasizing the importance of high sensation seekers in society. These individuals push boundaries, explore new territories, and inspire others to step out of their comfort zones. Both thrill and chill seekers contribute uniquely to the collective human experience, and understanding these traits can lead to greater empathy and cooperation among different personality types.

"We need high sensation seekers... these are the people that keep us protected."
— Ken Carter (10:15)

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Production Credits:
Produced by Burleigh McCoy. Edited and fact-checked by Rebecca Ramirez. Audio engineered by Robert Rodriguez. Senior Director Beth Donovan and Senior Vice President Colin Campbell contributed to podcasting strategy.

Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the informative parts of the episode.

Transcript

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[Emily Kwong]

You're listening to Short Wave from NPR. As a kid on the Fourth of July, Ken Carter's family would always get together, have a picnic and light fireworks. His brother would loved that part. Ken not so much.

[Ken Carter]

I remember sort of thinking about like what I would do if something went wrong, like where the emergency room was going to be, hoping I wasn't going to blow my hand up, that kind of stuff. I was a very cautious kid.

[Emily Kwong]

Ken is a clinical psychologist at Oxford College of Emory University, where he studies sensation seekers, people who may enjoy risk, thrill or a new sensation. The types who on the 4th of.

[Ken Carter]

July have probably driven across state lines to buy fireworks that might not be legal in your current state, looking for the largest explosions, the most beautiful colors, and have invited the, you know, neighborhood people over to their house to witness that.

[Emily Kwong]

Ken, by comparison, is a self described chill seeker. The types of people who are looking.

[Ken Carter]

At the fireworks, wondering whether or not those are legal in the state and being prepared, the kind of people who might bring something to put out the fire.

[Emily Kwong]

Most people, Ken says, are probably in.

[Ken Carter]

The middle who are going to enjoy it but may be nervous every now and then.

[Emily Kwong]

And this spectrum of personality on display as fireworks burst overhead has always intrigued him.

[Ken Carter]

I've always been amazed how two people can have the same experience but kind of have a different emotional reaction from it.

[Emily Kwong]

As a psychologist, ken uses a 40 point scale to measure someone's sensation seeking behavior. And he has met people who score 38, even 40.

[Ken Carter]

I'm actually at an eight out of 40.

[Interviewee]

Oh, that's quite low.

[Ken Carter]

It's quite low.

[Emily Kwong]

So today on the show, the psychology and brain chemistry of why some people like to light illegal Roman candles on the 4th of July while others watch from a distance with a fire extinguisher in hand. Plus how I score on Ken's Sensation Seeking Survey. I'm Emily Kwong and you're listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr.

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[Interviewee]

Let us dig deeper into the brain chemistry of what makes some people want to seek out bottle rockets and others keep a far distance from fireworks. What decides this?

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, there are lots of things that really are part of this. And the thing I like to focus on a lot are two chemicals that we have in our body. One is called cortisol. It's a stress hormone. Really helps organize your body systems to handle that fight, flee, or freeze response. And we know that when these highly chaotic things are happening that for average and low sensation seekers, it produces a lot of cortisol in their body and they're trying to react to that cortisol. High sensation seekers, on the other hand, don't tend to produce that much cortisol when they're in those highly chaotic experiences. So when they're seeing those fireworks, they actually produce higher amounts of another chemical called dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter or chemical messenger that that's involved in pleasure. So when these high sensation seekers are seeing these fireworks that are illegal from five states away and they're blowing up, they're experiencing a lot of pleasure but not that much stress. And that's why two people can have the same experience, but really their bodies are reacting in a very different way.

[Interviewee]

What decides that? The difference among people?

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, there's some genetics involved in it for sure, but the environment plays a piece as well. There's some evidence that high sensation seekers had some sort of unpredictable, chaotic experiences in general when they were younger. But a lot of it tends to be genetic is really what's what. That's why you see a lot of thrill seekers that can sort of run in families.

[Interviewee]

Oh, that's really interesting. What about experiences that happen in adulthood? I'm thinking about people for whom maybe they didn't have an issue with fireworks before, but then perhaps they were deployed or survived a war and fireworks for them are now a trauma reminder.

[Ken Carter]

Yeah. And so that's something a little bit different. So what I study is sensation seeking as a personality trait, which can change a little bit over time. But there are some things that might cause people to be to sort of seek that chaos a little bit later, which might include some trauma kinds of experiences. And so what I look at is whether or not this is the kind of thing that sort of always been like this or did something happen that sort of may have pivoted them towards sort of seeking chaotic experiences. We also know that a lot of these high sensation seekers are create like they pick careers where they're going to be a lot of chaos, and there's going to be a good amount of high sensation seeking involved in that. Whether it's firefighters or first responders or military, a lot of high sensation seekers are drawn to those careers because of their superpower of being able to be calm in those chaotic experiences.

[Interviewee]

Okay, so just to clarify, thrill seeking as a personality trait is not a you are or you aren't. It's more of a spectrum.

[Ken Carter]

Yeah. So the original researcher that really looked at this was someone named Zuckerman, and I've done some modifications to his brief sensation seeking survey, and there's four different pieces to it. So you actually might be a sensation seeker but not realize it because you may actually score high in one level, but a little bit lower in another level.

[Interviewee]

What are the four categories you're looking at in the survey?

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, so the four categories, number one is called thrill and adventure seeking, like driving fast or dangerous, kinds of things that are really involved, sort of body sensations. Another category is called experience seeking. This is sort of sensations of the mind and of the senses. These are people who like adventure travel or eating strange foods, for example. The first two tell me the kinds of things you might choose. The last two components tell me how much trouble you might get yourself into by trying to seek those things. One's called disinhibition. This is your ability to sort of look before you leap. Those that score low always sort of look and sort of do things carefully. Those that score high, just do stuff and figure out the consequences later. The last one's called boredom susceptibility. This has to do with how quickly you get bored and how irritated you get when you get bored.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. So you wrote an entire book about thrill seeking called Inside the Minds of Thrill Seekers, Daredevils, and Adrenaline Junkies. You have the survey in there?

[Ken Carter]

Yes.

[Interviewee]

The whole team took it on short wave.

[Emily Kwong]

Oh, you scored an eight.

[Ken Carter]

I did. I'm very proud of those eight points. I mean, I earned every one. Yeah.

[Interviewee]

My score was 32 and I can tell you that I'm laid up in bed right now with a thrown out back because I decided to go sprinting in 90 degree heat on Wednesday. And when I was out there, I was like, this is fun. And then later I came inside and I was like, was that a good idea? And then my back hurt the following day. And then I was like, that's probably fine. No stress. No stress response occurred. And my husband was like, you need to lie down, like you're, you have injured yourself. So that's why I am recording this from my bed. Because, yeah, I really wasn't stressed. Even though other people would have been very stressed in that situation.

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. A lot of high sensation seekers will say that will actually bounce back quicker when they do have an injury and they're ready to do it again. There is a guy that actually, there are many. High sensation seekers are actually underrepresented in emergency room situations because they can actually avoid getting injured. But when they do get injured and they bounce back relatively quickly.

[Interviewee]

And you said you've met people who are 40?

[Ken Carter]

Oh, yes, I've met 38, 40s, 32. Still pretty, pretty high. Yeah. But a lot of people will have what I call anchors in their life who are people who will pull them back from doing things that are too dangerous. They could be family, friends, kids, or even certain jobs where you think about whether or not you might want to get injured, you might get injured, and that sort of keeps them anchored a little bit more.

[Interviewee]

Yeah, yeah, very important. The balance seems very important of anchors and people who are, let's have a little adventure.

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, I think so too. To me, we need high sensation seekers. We need these thrill seekers out there. These are the people that keep us protected. These are the people who sort of push the boundaries. They eat foods that we're gonna taste them for the very first time and take a big bite out of them and they end up having these really amazing experiences. And I think there are things we can all learn from these high sensations. Even if you're not one, you can learn some great things from them. Like how, you know, I used to be a person who wouldn't try new foods, but now I know, like, you know, the worst thing that can happen is that you don't like it. But being disgusted isn't the worst thing.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Going back to the science, aside from kind of self reported survey results, how else do psychologists like yourself study such a personality trait There was a study.

[Ken Carter]

Done in the Netherlands where they looked at how high sensation seeking might impact how a person drives. They actually had people who were following, following a pace car in front of them, and they were hooked up to some physiological devices to measure their heart rate and their sort of stress response and also the distance they followed the car in front of them. And the low sensation seekers, as you can imagine, follow that car kind of far back and were pretty stressed out when they were doing it. The high sensation seekers followed really closely behind, and their stress response was relatively low. So this is why, if you're in a car with a high sensation seeker who's changing lanes and moving through traffic and you're wondering and you're really stressed out, if you're a low sensation seeker, it's important to remember that they're not really stressed at all. And that if you're. If your friend that's in the driver is in the companion seat, says they're stressed, they might be.

[Emily Kwong]

This is good advice. Listen to your friends while driving. Okay. Well, Ken, since your book came out in 2019, have you learned anything new about sensation seeking?

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, I think what I've been focusing on a lot since the book is how those people who aren't high sensation seekers, what we can learn from those high sensation seekers. We think about these high sensation seekers really being adrenaline junkies, but they're kind of not. And one of the things they've told me is that adrenaline is a really bad drug. Will Gad was the very first person to climb up Niagara Falls when it was frozen, and he's told me that adrenaline is a terrible drug. If he was just after adrenaline, he would just run back and forth in traffic. But he told me the reason why he's doing it is for the experience, what it's going to feel like to do it. And you need to be able to focus really well. And so the fact that he has lower levels of cortisol because he's a high sensation seeker lets him to be able to focus and do that really well. And there's some evidence that that emotional regulation that you garner to be able to do those complicated things can last even after the event. A lot of high sensation seekers I talked to say they'll do things like, you know, wingsuit flying or bungee jumping, and it gives them clarity, and they'll do that before they make a big decision. And that clear sense of mind can last for weeks after those events.

[Interviewee]

So as you prepare for fourth of July, which is in a few days, what advice do you have for folks who perhaps are not so into fireworks? What do you think people should do?

[Ken Carter]

I always tell people to lean into your awe, find the thing that feels awesome for you and do that unapologetically. As long as it's, you know, safe and it's not going to hurt anybody, that is.

[Interviewee]

Ken Carter, a clinical psychologist at Emory University, thank you so much for coming on the show.

[Ken Carter]

Thanks for having me.

[Emily Kwong]

Have a safe, happy holiday, Short wavers, whatever you decide to do. This episode was Produced by Burleigh McCoy. It was edited and fact checked by our showrunner, Rebecca Ramirez. The audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez, Beth Donovan is our senior director and Colin Campbell is our senior vice president of podcasting strategy. I'm Emily Kwong. Thank you for listening to Short Wave from npr.

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