Plot twist: We're probably way undercounting insects on Earth

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Plot twist: We're probably way undercounting insects on Earth"

Podcast: Short Wave (NPR)
Hosts: Regina Barber, Nate Rutt, with guest Scott Detrow
Date: July 10, 2026
Duration: ~15 minutes

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Overview

This episode of Short Wave explores new research suggesting the global number of insect species may be dramatically higher than previously estimated. The hosts also discuss the latest discoveries about ancient quasars and the surprising diets of California wolves. With humor, curiosity, and clear explanations, the team unpacks how scientific mysteries are being solved—and what they mean for our understanding of the natural world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Great Insect Undercount

(Segment Begins: 03:05)

• Counting Insect Species:

  • The discussion centers around recent research in a protected reserve in Costa Rica, particularly focusing on extremely tiny parasitoid wasps ([03:12]).
  • “They're these like tiny wasps, like really, really tiny, like millimeters tiny,” explains Regina Barber, citing entomologist Melissa Guzman ([03:20]).
  • Parasitoid wasps lay eggs in or on other insects; this diversity makes them hard to identify at the species level ([03:30]).

• DNA Sequencing & Modeling:

  • Scientists used DNA sequencing to distinguish wasp species and modeling to extrapolate insect diversity.
  • In a single subfamily of parasitoid wasps in one reserve, researchers discovered an estimated 3,400 species ([03:52]!).
  • By expanding this method, they estimated total insect species in the reserve, then modeled a global estimate ([04:26]).

• The Numbers:

  • The prior best global estimate was 6 million insect species (mostly based on beetles) ([04:34]).
  • New estimate: Between 14 and 20 million species at minimum—up to three times higher than previously thought ([05:08]).
  • Notable quote (Melissa Guzman via Nate):

    “There's so much that we don't know. Right. And I think it's humbling just to get a sense of how much we have yet to discover.” (Melissa Guzman, 05:13)

• Taxonomy Gap:

  • Only about 1 million insect species have been formally described so far ([05:30]).
  • Full cataloging would require immense, sustained effort.

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2. Quasars: Ancient Beacons of the Universe

(Segment Begins: 05:43)

• What Are Quasars?

  • Regina describes quasars as, “blazing bright centers of galaxies... at the center of that is a supermassive black hole” ([05:49]).
  • These black holes are millions or billions of times more massive than the sun, with dust and gas spiraling in and heating up to glow brightly ([05:49]).

• New Discovery:

  • A team led by Daming Yang (first author) discovered 31 of the oldest known quasars, thanks to data from Euclid—a European Space Agency space telescope launched in 2020 ([06:12-06:27]).
  • Unlike Hubble or JWST, Euclid scans broad swaths of the sky, making it efficient at finding rare astronomical objects ([06:27]).

• Why Does It Matter?

  • These ancient quasars existed soon after the Big Bang and are unexpectedly large and bright for their era ([07:00]).
  • Studying them helps astronomers answer:

    “How did they get so big so fast?” (Nate Rutt, 07:13)

  • Gathering more information could unlock secrets about galaxy formation and the era when cosmic “primordial hot goo” coalesced into stars ([07:13]).

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3. The Problematic Diets of California Wolves

(Segment Begins: 07:34)

• Background:

  • Focus on the controversial status of wolves returning to human-dominated landscapes, specifically California ([07:37]).
  • New DNA analysis of wolf scat by UC Davis researchers examined food sources in two packs from 2022–2023 ([08:04]).

• Surprising Findings:

  • Unlike in most states where wolves eat mostly wild game, California wolves are eating cattle as their primary food source ([08:14]).
  • This is partly due to California’s lack of abundant elk and deer, as explained by the study’s lead author, Tina Seitone ([08:28]).
  • Notable quote (paraphrased from Tina Seitone, via Regina):

    "In most states, wolves predominantly eat wild game. But when wolves come to a human dominated landscape like California with very little prey, you're gonna see a very different composition of prey." (Regina Barber, 08:39)

• Ecological Implications:

  • Neil Carter, wolf researcher at University of Michigan (not involved in the study), explains the challenge:

    “If you want to have these animals on the landscape... you have to start kind of building back the full ecosystem, which in California would mean boosting mule deer populations... and other game species like elk that the wolves can eat.” (Nate Rutt quoting Neil Carter, 09:12)

  • Restoring a balanced predator-prey ecosystem is necessary to reduce conflict between wolves and humans, but it won't happen overnight ([09:12]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On insect diversity:

  “There's so much that we don't know. Right. And I think it's humbling just to get a sense of how much we have yet to discover.”
  (Melissa Guzman, entomologist, 05:13)

• Space nerd camaraderie:

  “Let's get firefly tattoos.”
  (Scott Detrow, 01:16)

• Wolfs’ adaptive diets in a human-shaped landscape:

  “But when wolves come to a human dominated landscape like California with very little prey, you're gonna see a very different composition of prey.”
  (Tina Seitone, study lead author, paraphrased by Regina, 08:39)

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Segment Timestamps

• [03:05] — Main segment on new insect diversity estimates, starting with the case study in Costa Rica
• [05:43] — Quasar discoveries: what they are, why they matter, and what Euclid found
• [07:34] — California wolf diets and implications for wildlife management

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Conclusion

With trademark curiosity and humor, the Short Wave team reveals just how little we know about Earth's insects, unpacks the significance of ancient quasars for understanding our cosmic past, and highlights the unintended consequences of wildlife conservation when ecosystems are incomplete. The episode balances awe at scientific discovery with practical questions about managing natural systems in a changing world.

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Transcript

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

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[Regina Barber]

You're listening to Shortwave from NPR. Hey, shortwavers, Regina Barber here and Nate Rutt with our bi weekly science news roundup featuring fellow space nerd Scott Detrow of All Things Considered. Hey, Scott.

[Scott Detrow]

I am slumming it here today, talking in an episode that contains non space news, but I'm doing that for you.

[Regina Barber]

Excellent. We're going to talk more about space next week, too. But this week we've got a few mysteries unraveling. First up, how many different types of insects are there on the planet? Scott, do you have a guess, like

[Scott Detrow]

overall raw, total, or like species?

[Nate Rutt]

Species.

[Scott Detrow]

Okay. I don't know. Four million? I don't know. I don't know.

[Nate Rutt]

A lot. Well, you didn't go over, I'll give you that.

[Regina Barber]

We're gonna tell you.

[Nate Rutt]

Quick side question. Just because I'm a nerd, do either of you guys have a favorite insect?

[Regina Barber]

Yes.

[Scott Detrow]

What's yours?

[Regina Barber]

It's a firefly. Because I never saw them on the west coast until I moved to the East Coast.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

I like that.

[Scott Detrow]

Oh, I was gonna say firefly.

[Regina Barber]

Oh, we're the same. We're the same.

[Scott Detrow]

Let's get firefly tattoos.

[Regina Barber]

I was literally looking up during the 4th of July and I was looking at all the stars. We were out away from city lights and I saw the stars and I saw fireflies in the trees. It was so cool.

[Scott Detrow]

What a win.

[Regina Barber]

I know. Speaking of astronomy, you know, see, that was my segue. We have another story that looks at quasars, bright lights from ancient galaxies. So these are really, really old fireflies that can tell us more about the formation of the universe.

[Nate Rutt]

Yeah. And the final study looks at the, let's say, unfortunate eating hats of California wolves. You are listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr.

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[Nate Rutt]

All right, Regina and Scott, we've got a lot to get into.

[Scott Detrow]

Let's start with the insects. We've established there are a lot of insects, and I guess, like, I'm wondering, how do you even go about counting them?

[Nate Rutt]

So this study starts in a protected area in Costa Rica, and it looks at a very specific subset of insects called parasitoid wasps.

[Regina Barber]

And they're really diverse. They're these like tiny wasps, like really, really tiny, like millimeters tiny, says Melissa Guzman, an entomologist at Cornell University.

[Nate Rutt]

And these itty bitty wasps are called parasitoids because they lay their eggs in or on other species like caterpillars.

[Scott Detrow]

Can I say something? I saw a wasp do this to a cicada in my backyard, and it was horrifying. It was like alien in real life. It blew my mind.

[Nate Rutt]

Life finds a way.

[Regina Barber]

But don't worry, these are not hatching out of human chest.

[Nate Rutt]

Good.

[Regina Barber]

It's gonna be okay.

[Scott Detrow]

Okay. Okay.

[Nate Rutt]

Yeah. Yeah, for now. But because these wasps are so small, it's like really hard to tell one species from another. So the scientists looked at a specific sequence of DNA from these wasps, and using that and some fancy modeling, the they estimated there are 3400 different species of one subfamily of parasitoid wasps in this one nature reserve. What? A lot?

[Regina Barber]

Yes, a lot. But scientists wanted to take it a step further to get a sense of how many types of all insects there were in the reserve in Costa Rica. So they used that modeling and a larger sample of insects to get a

[Nate Rutt]

number, and then they used that number to try to solve this big scientific mystery.

[Scott Detrow]

Scott, I love myself a good big scientific mystery. Which one was this?

[Regina Barber]

So scientists wanted to know how many species of insects existed on the entire planet. And the best estimate to this point, based on studies of beetles, is that there are roughly 6 million.

[Nate Rutt]

And for perspective, Scott, even the most generous estimates of how many bird species there are on the planet suggest only about 20,000.

[Scott Detrow]

Okay, so it's more than 6 million, I'm assuming is where this is heading.

[Nate Rutt]

Yes. So this new study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of sciences suggests that that 6 million number. You are right, Scott, is a huge undercount.

[Scott Detrow]

How many insect species are there on earth? Yeah.

[Regina Barber]

Between 14 and 20 million at minimum. So up to three times as many species as previously believed. Here's Melissa again. There's so much that we don't know. Right. And I think it's humbling just to get a sense of how much we have yet to discover.

[Scott Detrow]

That's wild. Like, but what do you do next? Do you have, like, an insect census? How do you. How do you try and verify this in any way?

[Nate Rutt]

I mean, yes, there's, like, a lot of uncertainty with this kind of mod modeling. And, you know, we've only taxonomically described about 1 million insects so far. So, you know, do the math. It would take a lot, a lot, a lot of work.

[Scott Detrow]

Okay, next topic. Quasars. Fun word to say, cool thing. Remind us what they are.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah. So they are blazing bright centers of galaxies, and at the center of that is a supermassive black hole. Millions of billions of times the mass of our sun, and dust and gas is spiraling into that black hole. It heats up and starts to glow. So when astronomers see these quasars. Quasars. The light that they see is a

[Nate Rutt]

supermassive black hole caught in the act of feeding.

[Scott Detrow]

What an amazing thing to think about.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah. So that's Daming Yang. He's the first author of the study out this week in the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics, which reports the discovery of 31 quasars. And these are among the oldest quasars ever found. And before this study, astronomers only knew a handful of quasars this old.

[Nate Rutt]

Yeah, And, Scott, something that's kind of cool about this is that these were all found with a space telescope that not a lot of people know exist. It's called Euclid. The European Space Agency launched it in 2020. And although it isn't as powerful as the Hubble Space Telescope or James Webb, it was designed to scan large swaths of the sky, which makes it really awesome at finding rare objects.

[Scott Detrow]

I mean, this is a cool thing to think about and envision, but I assume astronomers need a little more than this is cool for doing this work. Like, what is the practical value of spending time trying to ID these?

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, so these quasars are from, like, soon after the Big Bang. They're much bigger and brighter than astronomers would expect them to be that early in the universe. So, daming, there's a lot of questions about how they got so big so fast.

[Nate Rutt]

Like, what are they grown from how do they grow? Like this? Question. By only collecting more of these quasars, we can answer this. And these ancient quasars might tell scientists more of the era when stars were born from the primordial hot goo that occurred after the Big Bang.

[Scott Detrow]

We will save the primordial hot goo for another day.

[Regina Barber]

Yes.

[Scott Detrow]

And let's move on to topic three. Wolves.

[Nate Rutt]

Yes. An animal that is often controversial wherever it is cohabitating with people. You know, whether that's in the western US where I am, the Midwest or Europe, you name it.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah. And a new study out this week in the journal PLOS ONE is not going to soothe any of that hate some people feel about this predator.

[Scott Detrow]

Why is that?

[Nate Rutt]

So this study focuses specifically on wolves in California, which have migrated here from Oregon. And it looks at the impact they're having on cattle and consequentially, people ranchers.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah. And researchers at UC Davis did a DNA analysis of the scat, you know, their poop, from two wolf packs in 2022 and 2023 to see what they were eating.

[Nate Rutt]

In both years, Scott, they found that the primary food source for these packs was cattle.

[Scott Detrow]

I mean, I, I guess my reaction. I'm not super surprised by that. Right. Because that's the particular reason that ranchers have such strong feelings about wolves. Like, what am I missing?

[Regina Barber]

That's reasonable to think. But it's uncommon for livestock to be the primary food for these wolves. So Tina Seitone, the study's lead author, says in most states, wolves predominantly eat wild game.

[Scott Detrow]

But when wolves come to a human dominated landscape like California with very little prey, you're gonna see a very different composition of prey.

[Nate Rutt]

So in other words, you know, California doesn't have big populations of elk like Montana or Wyoming. We don't have as many deer as there are in the Midwest or the Northwest.

[Scott Detrow]

So the wolves just don't have a choice then, Is that it?

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, that's right. So Neil Carter, who studies wolves at the University of Michigan, says this study, which he wasn't involved with, underscores how complicated it is for carnivores to come back to places that have fundamentally changed.

[Nate Rutt]

If you want to have these animals on the landscape, you know, you have to start kind of building back the full ecosystem, which in California would mean boosting mule deer populations, which are currently declining because of habitat loss, boosting other game species like elk that the wolves can eat. And look, that's not something that could happen overnight. But I think this study does give the people that manage wildlife and want to see fewer conflicts between wolves and humans. Something to think about and to aim for.

[Regina Barber]

Scott, I hope you enjoyed this, you know, not space segment, but, you know, news segment.

[Nate Rutt]

And a little bit of space. A little bit of space. Just enough. Just enough.

[Scott Detrow]

I'll be back soon for spacing out, but in the meantime, always love being here.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, come back anytime.

[Nate Rutt]

Yeah. Thanks man.

[Regina Barber]

You can hear more of Scott Detrow on consider this and PR's afternoon podcast about what the news means for and

[Nate Rutt]

for more side stories just like this one, follow Shortwave on whatever app you're listening to.

[Regina Barber]

This episode was produced by Rachel Carlson and Jordan Marie Smith. It was edited by Rebecca Ramirez and Christopher Intalienta.

[Nate Rutt]

Tyler Jones Check the facts. Anh Li Wong and Tiffany Vera Castro were the audio engineers. I'm Nate Rott.

[Regina Barber]

And I'm Regina Barber. Thank you for listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] Switch taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

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[Regina Barber]

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