Set up solar, or save a tree? It’s complicated

Summary

Short Wave Episode Summary

Podcast: Short Wave (NPR)
Episode: Set up solar, or save a tree? It’s complicated
Date: April 28, 2026
Hosts: Emily Kwong & Hannah Chin
Theme: An exploration into the environmental and personal decision-making involved when choosing between cutting down a tree to install solar panels, or preserving the tree — delving into how solar works, energy efficiency, and alternative solar solutions for homeowners.

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Episode Overview

In this NatureQuest edition of Short Wave, Emily Kwong and Hannah Chin tackle the perennial homeowner dilemma: if you have a big shade tree that blocks your roof, should you cut it down to install solar panels, or is saving the tree better for you and the planet? Alongside expert insights and a real homeowner’s story, the hosts break down considerations around solar power, tree benefits, costs, and new trends in community solar.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Dilemma: Cut Down a Tree for Solar Panels? [00:45–03:15]

• Case study: Darcy Hughes in Washington state has a huge cedar tree shading her roof, preventing optimal solar panel placement.
• Her local utility already provides 90% carbon-free, hydro-powered electricity.
• Darcy is drawn to solar for personal energy independence and long-term savings—yet wonders, “At what cost—and is it worth the life of a tree?”
  (Emily Kwong [02:14])

2. How Solar Panels Work [04:16–07:01]

• Hannah: Admits gaps in understanding, jokes about solar panels looking like “giant flat screen TVs.”
• Emily & Expert Jenny Heinzen:
  • Photovoltaic Effect explained simply:
    “Photo as in light...voltaic, voltage, electricity.” (Jenny Heinzen [04:55])
  • Panels are “like computer chips...silicon-based semiconductors.” (Jenny Heinzen [05:39])
• How energy’s used: Solar inverters convert energy so it can power homes or be sold back to the grid.
• Limitation: Without batteries, solar doesn’t work during a grid power outage.
  • “So that would allow you to truly live off the grid.” (Emily Kwong [06:49])

3. Expert Consensus: Don’t Rush to Cut the Tree [07:16–09:05]

• Emily consults five solar professionals; all surprising pro-tree.
  • “I would not make that as the first move for sure.” (Kevin Lucas [07:40])
  • “I wouldn't cut down a tree that I loved in my yard... Maybe this isn’t the right answer as a solar advocate.” (Jenny Heinzen [07:46])
• Trees sequester carbon, but solar panels offset more carbon pound for pound.
• However, “unless this tree is sick and rotting and a hazard...do not cut it down.” (Emily Kwong [08:12])
• Why? Trees provide crucial shade, reducing energy costs (especially AC), and increase home sustainability holistically.

4. The Cooling Power of Trees: Personal and Broader Impacts [09:05–09:43]

• Trees lower indoor temps, which is increasingly critical as the Pacific Northwest heats up due to climate change.
• Many older homes lack AC—shade is invaluable.
  • “The shade that the trees provide is really invaluable.” (Hannah Chin [09:17])
• Utility perspective: increased heat waves mean more demand for cooling; trees buffer this (“We are at the utility seeing more and more customers installing air conditioning.” —Snohomish County PUD, Susie Oversby [09:37])

5. Three-Step Plan for Solar Seekers with Trees [09:49–13:30]

• Step 1: Consult a Solar Expert

  • Get a reputable solar installer to assess actual shade impact and alternative placements (ground, porch, backyard, plug-in balcony panels).
  • “The installers can...determine exactly how much sunlight they get through the year.” (Kevin Lucas [10:33])
  • For recommendations, Emily notes the Amicus Solar Cooperative as a source for reliable local companies.

• Step 2: Analyze the Financials

  • Solar installation is expensive: “If you’re spending $20,000 up front...you gotta sit down and do some figuring, is this gonna save me money over the long run?” (Jeff Brady [11:24])
  • Warnings about high-pressure sales and the importance of careful contract review.
  • “Most solar panel relationships last longer than most marriages.” (Jeff Brady [11:49])
  • Check for local/regional incentives (some have been cut at the federal level, but new avenues may exist). Once installed, “the fuel is free.” (Jeff Brady [12:10])

• Step 3: Explore Community Solar

  • If home installation isn’t possible, look into “solar gardens”—shared offsite arrays funded by multiple households.
  • “There’s a plot of land and you go in together and you all garden together. You can do that with solar.” (Jenny Heinzen [13:21])
  • Ideal for renters or those with heavily shaded homes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On priorities:
  • “A sustainable house isn’t just about whether you have all the gizmos...it’s also about your home’s natural environment and how much energy it uses.” (Emily Kwong [08:41])
• On solar’s future:
  • “Solar still produced 7% of US energy last year. That was unthinkable...20 years ago.” (Emily Kwong [12:40])
• On relationships:
  • “I heard one person say that most solar panel relationships last longer than most marriages.” (Jeff Brady [11:49])
• On tree’s value:
  • “I wouldn’t cut down a tree that I loved in my yard to do solar. Maybe this isn’t the right answer as a solar advocate.” (Jenny Heinzen [07:46])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:45 — Darcy’s dilemma introduced
• 04:16 — Solar panels explained
• 07:40 — Experts surprised: “keep the tree”
• 09:05 — Value of tree shade in a warming climate
• 09:56 — Emily’s three-step plan for solar-seeking homeowners
• 11:24 — Cost and contract considerations
• 13:00 — Community solar explained

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Tone & Style

In keeping with NPR and Short Wave’s signature style, the episode was engaging, conversational, and peppered with light humor:

• “To chainsaw or not to chainsaw. That is the question.” (Emily Kwong [00:54])
• “I do know...they look like giant flat screen TVs that are, like, stuck to the roof.” (Hannah Chin [04:16])

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Key Takeaways

• Cutting down a beloved tree for rooftop solar is rarely the first or best step; trees provide valuable shade and habitat, especially as climates warm.
• Solar panels are most beneficial in areas reliant on fossil fuels, but even then, assessing the overall sustainability (including existing shade benefits) is crucial.
• Homeowners should get expert, site-specific advice, weigh costs, explore incentives, and consider “community solar” as an accessible alternative.
• Sustainability is about the whole home ecosystem—not just technology.

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Links & Further Listening:

• Check show notes for Jeff Brady's reporting on plug-in solar panels.
• Email Short Wave with your own local eco-dilemma for future "NatureQuest" episodes.

Transcript

[Announcer]

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[Emily Kwong]

You're listening to Shortwave from NPR.

[Hannah Chin]

Happy spring shortwavers. I'm producer Hannah Chin and my NatureQuest buddy Emily Kwong is also here.

[Emily Kwong]

Hi, Hannah.

[Hannah Chin]

With a story about an age old question for homeowners. Namely, should I cut down that big tree in my front yard?

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah. To chainsaw or not to chainsaw. That is the question. Darcy Hughes lives a few miles north of Seattle, Washington, and has got this big towering cedar tree that grows right next to her house. Right now, we've got a few birds

[Hannah Chin]

up there and a few crows. Of course, It's generally pretty peaceful here.

[Emily Kwong]

Cedars are evergreens. So all year long, this tree casts a long dappled shadow over her front yard.

[Hannah Chin]

Really? No direct sunlight comes through these branches at all.

[Emily Kwong]

And Darcy wants to know, should she keep the tree or cut it down to install solar panels on her roof?

[Hannah Chin]

Okay, so really the question should be to solar or not to solar.

[Emily Kwong]

Yes. Now there are nearly 6 million solar energy installations in the US alone. When it comes to home solar, a lot of people make the switch because most public utilities rely on fossil fuels

[Hannah Chin]

like coal, like natural gas. Yeah.

[Emily Kwong]

But Darcy is in this really unique situation because Snohomish county, most of its energy comes from hydropowered dams. So 90% of her energy is already carbon free.

[Hannah Chin]

Got it. Wait, so then what's the point of installing solar?

[Emily Kwong]

She wants to be self reliant and it wouldn't hurt to lower her electric bills by making her own energy. But at what cost? And is it worth the life of a tree?

[Hannah Chin]

So today on the show when to Make Way for Solar, we get into the nitty gritty of how solar works and how to choose a solar system that's right for you. I'm Hannah Chin.

[Emily Kwong]

And I'm Emily Kwong and you're listening

[Hannah Chin]

to Shortwave, the science podcast from npr.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

This message comes from 1-800-Flowers. She does a lot for your family. Mother's Day is your chance to show her you see it with a gift from a brand trusted for generations to help people get the moment right. With double blooms from 1-800-Flowers. Buy one dozen roses and get another dozen for free. It's a bigger Gesture backed by 50 years of experience delivering fresh flowers so you can feel confident sending something that lands. Show up for her with double [e-mail]

[Announcer]

NPR this message comes from Charles Schwab with their original podcast Choiceology. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind people's decisions. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] podcast

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

this message comes from LinkedIn ads. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first but didn't live up to the hype? For marketers, that's impressions. When ads don't create revenue, that's a tough conversation with the CFO. Instead, invest in results your CFO will love. LinkedIn Ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. So advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 and get a $250 credit. Just go to LinkedIn.com NPRpod Terms and Conditions apply.

[Hannah Chin]

Okay, Emily. So today we are focusing on a solar Crisis. This is NatureQuest, our series answering environmental questions like you.

[Emily Kwong]

Whoop, whoop.

[Hannah Chin]

And I guess we gotta start with solar panels themselves. I gotta be honest, because I'm a renter. I'm, like, not totally sure how these work. I do know I think they're kind of ugly. Like, when I pass them, they look like giant flat screen TVs that are, like, stuck to the roof fair.

[Emily Kwong]

But, Hannah, I'm gonna change your mind, because solar panels are actually glorious. They are the end result of humankind's enduring ambition to harness the power of

[Narrator/Reporter]

the sun, turning sunlight into electricity. Scientists of the Bell Laboratories at Murray Hill, New J demonstrate a solar battery which converts light into power.

[Emily Kwong]

These scientists at Bell Labs back in the 1950s used the photovoltaic effect.

[Jenny Heinzen]

Photo as in light photo. And then voltaic voltage. Electricity.

[Emily Kwong]

This is Jenny Heinzen, master electrician and the curriculum director at the Midwest Renewable Energy Association. And she went full teacher mode and explaining to me how this photovoltaic effect turns the energy of the sun into an electric current current. So first you need a material. And it was Bell Laboratories in New Jersey that figured out you could use strips of silicon, the same stuff found

[Narrator/Reporter]

in sand, principal ingredients of ordinary beach sand. Enough light from a lamp to power this toy Ferris wheel. Lights on, she works. Lights off. The motor stops.

[Emily Kwong]

Silicon ended up being such an efficient and scalable material that it is what modern solar panels are made out of.

[Jenny Heinzen]

They're very much like computer chips. They are silicon based semiconductors.

[Emily Kwong]

So basically, the solar panel has a positive side and a negative side. It's designed that way, and the positive side is what absorbs the sunlight. The sun's energy travels as photons. Those photons, when they hit the solar panel, they knock electrons free. So then there's all these free electrons, which then travel through the solar panel to the negative side. And the flow of electrons, as we know, is electricity. And this process is happening across hundreds of cells on any given solar installation.

[Jenny Heinzen]

And now those electrons are being used to light your house and do your laundry and make toast and do everything else.

[Emily Kwong]

Of course, you need a device to accept these electrons. A lot of people use solar inverters. These are magic boxes that convert that direct current into an alternate current. So if you need more electricity, it pulls from the utility. If you make extra electricity, that will actually flow back onto the grid to power your neighbo homes and businesses. But if the power goes out, lights out.

[Hannah Chin]

Wait, so solar doesn't work during a power outage?

[Emily Kwong]

No, because the inverter recognizes something is wrong with the grid and shuts down. So Jenny has seen a lot of people add batteries to their systems as a backup power source. So that would allow you to truly live off the grid.

[Hannah Chin]

Oh, okay. So now I understand how solar panels work. Maybe I appreciate them a little bit more than I did before. But, Emily, I still want to know the answer to Darcy's question. Like, should she cut down the tree to make way for solar panels?

[Emily Kwong]

Okay, so for this, I wanted to cast a wide net. I talked to five people in different parts of the country who are all connected to the solar industry. The five include a journalist, a policy person, a trade person, a master electrician, and someone at Darcy's local public utility.

[Hannah Chin]

What did they say?

[Emily Kwong]

Asked them all the question. And I expected them to say, you know, break out the chainsaws. Solar forever. But instead, I got this.

[Kevin Lucas]

I would not make that as the first move for sure.

[Emily Kwong]

If a tree is shading their home, it's doing a really good thing for them.

[Jenny Heinzen]

I wouldn't cut down a tree that I loved in my yard to do solar. Maybe this isn't the right answer as a solar advocate.

[Hannah Chin]

Wait, okay, this does surprise me that all of them are so pro tree.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah, many of them talked about how trees sequester carbon from the atmosphere, which Darcy well knows. But this point about sequestration is interesting to me because pound for pound, solar panels are significantly more efficient than trees at Offsetting carbon. And yet everybody begged, Darcy, unless this tree is sick and rotting and a hazard to your home someday, do not cut it down.

[Hannah Chin]

Yeah, I gotta say, this feels like more of an emotional argument rather than a logical argument. It just doesn't really totally make sense. Did they explain why?

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah, it is a logical argument.

[Hannah Chin]

Got it.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah. I'll let you John Farrell at the Institute for Local Self Reliance, speak his piece.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Having a tree is amazing, and especially if it shades your house and especially if you have, you know, high energy bills in summer months.

[Emily Kwong]

Trees provide natural cooling. And a sustainable house isn't just about whether you have all the gizmos and the solar panels and the electric car and the heat pump, whatever. It's also about, like, your home's natural environment and how much energy it uses. And a home with more shade is going to use a lot less AC and have to, you know, tap the local utility less.

[Hannah Chin]

I mean, I'm from Oregon, and my parents and the folks I grew up with have been experiencing really unprecedented heat waves for the past couple of summers. Plus, a lot of homes in the area, including mine, are older and so they don't have ac. So the shade that the trees provide is really invaluable.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah, the Pacific Northwest is historically very cool, but it is getting hotter. And I was reminded of this while talking to Susie Oversby, who runs solar programs at Darcy's local public utility, Snohomish County Pud.

[Announcer]

We're getting more extreme and more frequent heat events. And so we are at the utility seeing more and more customers installing air conditioning.

[Hannah Chin]

Okay. So because of the shade, don't cut down the tree. End of episode.

[Emily Kwong]

Don't cut down the tree, but not end of episode. There are other pathways for Darcy to explore solar. I've come up with a three step plan. Do you want to hear it?

[Hannah Chin]

Yes. I love a three step plan. What's step one?

[Emily Kwong]

Call up a solar installer and have them come to your house. Maybe the shade isn't as significant as Darcy assumes. Solar panels can work in cloudy weather. Also, there are places besides her roof where she can put panels. There are ground mounted systems, pole mounted systems, even plug in solar panels so

[Kevin Lucas]

you can put them on a balcony, you can put them in your backyard, you can hang them from a porch or something like that.

[Emily Kwong]

This is Kevin Lucas. He works for the Solar Energy Industries association, the big trade group that represents the solar industry.

[Kevin Lucas]

The installers can come to their house and look at the trees and determine exactly how much sunlight they get through the year. And then with that information, along with the quotes of a couple different reputable installers, she can make a decision as to whether this makes sense.

[Hannah Chin]

I didn't even realize this was something that you could do. Basically like phone a trustworthy expert.

[Emily Kwong]

Yes, Trustworthy is important because NPR's Jeff Brady, who has been covering the solar industry for years now, says there's some high pressure sales tactics out there. Okay, so Jeff suggests finding a local solar installer who's been doing this for a long time. He likes this website called the Amicus Solar Cooperative for finding that trustworthy local person.

[Hannah Chin]

Got it. So step one, get an expert, call a reputable solar installer. What's step two?

[Emily Kwong]

Okay. If your property is a good candidate for solar, break out your calculator, because solar installation ain't cheap.

[Jeff Brady]

If you're spending, you know, $20,000 up front to put solar panels on your house, you gotta sit down and do some figuring, is this gonna save me money over the long run?

[Emily Kwong]

Jeff says read those contracts carefully before committing to that solar installer.

[Jeff Brady]

It's like long term relationship, it's going to last for 20 or 30 years, hopefully. I heard one person say that most solar panel relationships last longer than most marriages.

[Emily Kwong]

Falker's thing to say. I know.

[Jeff Brady]

So you really want to choose closely who that person is and also check

[Emily Kwong]

if your area has incentives. So state or local policies that allow you to lower the installation costs or even to offset your energy bill, like if you produce energy for the grid, you might get a discount on your

[Jeff Brady]

electric bill once you build it. It's there, it's sitting there. You've spent the $20,000 and now the fuel is free. And you're generating electricity for free.

[Hannah Chin]

Right? Free is a great price.

[Emily Kwong]

True.

[Hannah Chin]

But Emily, I remember hearing that the Trump administration and the big beautiful bill recently gutted the biggest financial incentives for renewables. That was the 30% federal tax credit on new solar installations.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah, that cut was made at the federal level. And the growth of the solar industry did slow down last year.

[Hannah Chin]

Yeah.

[Emily Kwong]

And yet Solar still produced 7% of US energy last year. That was unthinkable to Jeff 20 years ago. So he told me even with these cuts, he thinks solar's here to stay.

[Hannah Chin]

So basically we'll see what happens with the solar industry in the future.

[Emily Kwong]

Indeed.

[Hannah Chin]

But Emily, you said this was a three step program. What's your third step for Darcy?

[Emily Kwong]

Darcy, third step. And this is especially if your installer is like, actually there's no place for you to put solar. Check out community solar. Basically any shared solar projects. These are where a group of people finance the installation of solar panels in another place. It's good for people who rent or people with trees. Jenny the electrician put it this way.

[Jenny Heinzen]

So there's a plot of land and you go in together and you all garden together. You can do that with solar solar gardens.

[Emily Kwong]

So even if the sun isn't shining directly on your house, it is always shining somewhere.

[Hannah Chin]

I love a community solution. Emily Kwong yeah, thank you so much for bringing us this story.

[Emily Kwong]

Hannah Chen you're very welcome.

[Hannah Chin]

Short Waivers if you liked this episode, check out Jeff Brady's recent reporting on Plug In Solar Panels. Link it in our show notes and

[Emily Kwong]

be like darcy, send us whatever question you have about your local environment. Just record a voice memo with your question and we'll go on a quest. Email it to shortwavepr.org this episode was

[Hannah Chin]

produced by me, Hannah Chin, and edited by our showrunner, Rebecca Ramirez. Tyler Jones checked the facts. Sam Paulson wrote the NatureQuest theme music. The audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. I'm Hannah Chin.

[Emily Kwong]

I'm Emily Kwong. Thanks for listening to Short Wave from npr.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

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