B (2:48)

Jeff, has that ever happened to you? Cause I remember talking to my little cousins about, about what I do for, you know, when I was in grad school and they were like 10 and they just started being like, I don't want to think about it. And it started freaking out.

D (2:59)

Yeah.

C (3:00)

You know, I don't know. I've always found it kind of comforting going back to the world being a bad place sometimes. Not always, but. But, you know, space is a reminder that, you know, we are, we are, but on a tiny little dot. And at the end of the day, there's much larger things afoot and maybe we shouldn't all stress out so much. Keeps me chill.

B (3:21)

Okay, both of you, what's better, flip

D (3:22)

side to that exact same idea?

B (3:25)

Well, both of you have definitely earned your spot. And with that, today on the show, we're talking about three space stories in the news. First, the film Project Hail Mary. Then the prospect of data centers in space, and a quick update on the upcoming Artemis mission. You're listening to Shorewave, the science podcast from npr.

E (3:54)

This message comes from Wix Nothing beats seeing your ideas turn into cold, hard cash. Well, if you use WIX Harmony, you better get used to it. WIX Harmony makes it unbelievably easy to create a fancy new website that's built to sell. Get the perfect blend of AI and drag and drop tools that puts you in control of every detail, plus an AI agent to help you every step of the way. Try it for free@wix.com Harmony this message

A (4:24)

comes from Ezcator, the workplace food platform. Ezcater helps organizations order food from favorite restaurants, meet dietary needs, and stay on budget with employee meal programs, flexible payment options, and 247 customer support all on one platform. Learn more at EasyCater.com this message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile might be right for you. With plans starting from 15 bucks a month. Shop plans today@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

B (5:10)

Okay, Scott, Jeff, I am most excited to talk to you guys about Project Hail Mary, which I actually got to watch for work.

D (5:19)

So let's start with that. I am both very excited to see it, and I don't know when I'm going to see it. Cause here's my plan. I want to read the book. The book has just been sitting there on the nightstand. I feel like I need to read the book first, then see the movie.

B (5:30)

No, no, no, no, no. Put the book down. Go see the movie. I've actually heard people that that's actually the best way to do it. Okay, let me explain the plot. Like, real quick.

D (5:38)

Please do not spoil anything.

B (5:40)

I won't. I promise. So in the near future, scientists notice that there are these alien microbes breeding on Venus, then going to eat the sun.

D (5:48)

Eat the sun?

B (5:49)

Yeah, like, dimming it to a point that in 30 years, crops will die, animals will die, humans will die. So world leaders send a mission to a nearby star that's not being eaten because these microbes are eating all these other stars too, not just our sun. And they want to figure out how to save the sun. So one of the astronauts is scientist turned middle school teacher Ryland Grace, and he's played by Ryan Gosling.

D (6:12)

I put the knot.

C (6:13)

An astronaut. I've never done anything. I've never done a space. I can't even moonwalk. And Scott, as I'm sure you already know, this movie is based on a book by Andy Weir, the same guy who wrote the Martian. And he does have a track record of writing really scientifically cool books that turn into Hollywood hits. And Gina, on that note, I have to ask, is the movie actually any good?

B (6:34)

Well, first off, Jeff, I mean, it's a blockbuster for a reason. Like, I went in completely blind. I didn't read the book, Scott. I didn't even watch the trailer. I loved it. I loved the jokes, I loved the puppetry, the visuals. It was all stunning.

D (6:46)

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you just say puppets?

B (6:49)

Yeah, yeah. You said no spoilers.

D (6:51)

I know.

B (6:51)

That's literally all I'm gonna say. Okay, okay, that's all I'm gonna say.

D (6:54)

But, But. But Jeff was nodding at this. And I'm curious, like, how good is the science? Because the Martian, like, you got the potential potato growing. You got all the science happening.

B (7:02)

Yeah, a lot was pretty accurate. Like, they did hint to special relativity, where, like, if you're traveling near the speed of light, you're going to experience time dilation. So, like, Ryan Gosling's character aged differently than people on Earth. They did take some creative licenses with, like, the fundamentals of biology, though. So, like, these alien microbes like they existed in space. They were, like, on the surface of the sun and they were water based. I don't know about that, but that didn't seem to bother astrobiologist Michael Wong from Carnegie Science. He loved the movie. He read the book, but did point out that there's one, like, accidental scientific mistake in the movie.

C (7:39)

It's kind of fun to note that the two exoplanets in the movie were exoplanets that we thought existed at the time that Project Hail Mary was being written. But in just the past few years, between the book, the book's release and the movie, we've actually discovered that these planets may not actually exist.

B (8:01)

Yeah, Scott. So in the grand scheme of things, it's not really a mistake. It's just that, like, science has gotten more advanced since the book was written.

D (8:08)

All right, Jeff, second topic, launching artificial intelligence into space. Is. Is this a thing?

C (8:13)

Yeah, I mean, it's something that some folks are taking seriously, including Elon Musk. He's actually making this the central mission of SpaceX, his space launch company, which. Which just merged, actually, with his AI company, xai. Here he is on Saturday unveiling new plans for a massive new microchip factory that would make chips used for data centers in space.

E (8:38)

I actually think that the cost of deploying AI in space will drop below

C (8:43)

the cost of terrestrial AI much sooner

D (8:45)

than most people expect.

C (8:46)

I think it may be only two or three years.

B (8:49)

Okay, Jeff, at shortwave, we've done like, a bunch of stories about data centers and how they use a lot of water, they use a lot of electricity. Like, is this the solution? Like just setting them up into space,

C (9:00)

ejecting them from the Earth? Yes, actually, according to people who support this idea, it is. Right. It comes down to really, electricity. You know, there is a lot of problems around generating enough electricity for all these data centers on the ground. And if you go up into space, you know, you got the sun and

B (9:18)

we were just talking about it.

C (9:19)

We were just talking about it. Great source of power. It's all free, it's plentiful. And the napkin map looks pretty good, right? You can get as much as you want. But I've got to say, when I started speaking to independent experts, I heard a lot of skepticism.

D (9:32)

Walk me through some of the specific skepticism then.

C (9:34)

Right. Well, let's start by talking about the biggest sort of computery thing we have in space right now, which is the International Space Station.

B (9:42)

Love it.

C (9:42)

It's the largest facility in orbit, and its solar panels generate around 100 kilowatts of power. Okay, now that may sound like a lot, but Xai's Colossus computing facility in Memphis, Tennessee consumes around 150 megawatts. So you can do the math.

B (9:59)

Wow.

C (10:00)

I don't want to. Yeah, you don't want to. Well, that's all right. I actually got MIT aerospace professor Olivier Dweck to do the math for us. You would have to build, just for

E (10:10)

the power in photovoltaically, a facility that's 1,000 times the size of the ISS.

D (10:17)

That seems hard to do.

B (10:20)

There's an even bigger problem right on the back end. It's heat. Right. Space is cold, that's true, but it's a vacuum. So there's no way to transfer heat away from these computer chips.

C (10:30)

Right, right, right. And so you need these massive radiators that actually use some sort of fluid to gather the heat from the chips and then conduct it out into space. And those end up being almost as big as the solar arrays.

D (10:43)

Okay, so we start this con with Elon Musk saying two or three years away. Then we have an expert saying a thousand times the size of the International Space Station. What, what do we think our real talk estimate is like on those two extreme ends of the spectrum? Is this a thing that one way or another you think happens down the line?

C (10:59)

I think there's a way to sort of parse this, which is there will be more computing in space for sure. And it'll probably, at least for now, be on smaller satellites, smaller amounts of computing that can be distributed. Whether we end up with giant data centers with kilometer long solar arrays, I think that's going to be a lot more than two or three years off, but we'll see. You know, Elon loves to give a tight deadline. We'll just have to see where we land.

D (11:24)

One more thing I wanted to ask about, and this is something that I think is a lot closer than whatever Musk is talking about. I think so, at least. And that is the Artemis II launch. What's going on there?

B (11:35)

Yeah, Scott, So the US is set to launch humans back to the moon for an orbit, something that hasn't happened since the early 70s. And the launch window for Artemis opens pretty soon on April 1.

C (11:48)

But there have been some technical problems with this mission's rocket. There was a hydrogen leak which forced NASA to push back this launch. So at this point, Scott, anything could happen. We'll be watching.

B (11:59)

All right, all right, well, and I hope we can do this again. I hope we can hang out and like talk about space again. Jeff Scott, thank you so much.

D (12:06)

We can talk about whether Artemis 2 happened or whether it didn't happen. We can talk about, as we said at the beginning, literally an infinite amount of other topics.

B (12:14)

And at the end of all of our spacing outs, you'll just be like, what's happening to Artemis right now? It could go for years, right?

C (12:20)

Already has.

D (12:22)

Thanks for having us.

B (12:23)

Thank you so much. If you like this episode, share it with a friend. It really helps our show. And hey, give us a follow on the NPR app or wherever else you're listening from so that you'll never miss a new episode. This episode was produced by Rachel Carlson and Kai McNamee. It was edited by Christopher Intagliota, Amina Khan and our showrunner, Rebecca Ramirez. Eyes I'm Regina Barber. Thank you for listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr. See you tomorrow.

E (12:59)

This Message comes from LinkedIn ads Ever Invest in something that seemed incredible at first but didn't live up to the hype? For marketers, that's impressions. When ads don't create revenue, that's a tough conversation with the CFO. Instead, invest in results your CFO will love. LinkedIn Ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. So advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 and get a $250 credit. Just go to LinkedIn.com NPRpod terms and conditions apply.

A (13:32)

This message comes from EasyCater making it easy for organizations to order food for meetings and events from favorite restaurants, set up meal programs for their employees, and manage food. Spend all in one place@easycater.com this message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile might be right for you with plans starting from 15 bucks a month. Shop plans today@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.