Episode Overview

Podcast: Short Wave (NPR)
Episode: The Indicator: Take A Penny, Leave A Penny, Get Rid Of The Penny
Date: December 18, 2025
Hosts: Emily Kwong, Darian Woods, Waylon Wong
Main Theme:
This episode, a collaboration with NPR’s economics podcast The Indicator, dives into the end of the penny’s long run as an American coin. Through voices from history, art, and finance, it explores why the penny is disappearing, its cultural resonance, and what happens to all those coins still in circulation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Penny in History and Culture

• Pennies Are Ubiquitous:
  • "Pennies are everywhere. They're between our couch cushions and on the floor of our cars. They're in fountains and junk drawers. And there's even a penny on Mars." — Waylon Wong [02:08]
• A Symbol of America:
  • Christina Shutt (Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum) highlights that the penny’s design was changed in 1909 to feature Lincoln, making him the first US president to appear on a circulating coin.
  • "If the one thing that you know, some other life form knows about us is Abraham Lincoln, like, that's a pretty good representation of what's the best of us, right?" — Christina Shutt [02:50]

2. The End of Penny Production

• The Final Penny Minted:
  • In November 2025, the US government minted the very last penny.
  • "There are still around 300 billion pennies in circulation. That's almost nine bucks for every person in the U.S. but the coin's 232 year run is coming to an end." — Waylon Wong [03:16]

3. Why the Penny Became a Problem

• Rising Costs:
  • Ed Moy, US Mint director (2006–2011), explains the economics:
    • The Mint tries to break even or profit via 'seigniorage'–making coins for less than face value and sending the profit to the US Treasury.
    • Dimes, quarters, and dollar coins made money; pennies and nickels didn't.
    • "2006 was the first year that the cost of making a penny went above $0.01... I started consulting with Congress saying costs are going up." — Ed Moy [06:37]
• Lawmakers’ Response:
  • Congress did not see the penny’s losses as urgent. The scale: $80 million lost annually is "a rounding error of a rounding error in the federal government." — Ed Moy [07:24]
  • 2025: A penny costs 3.7 cents to produce.

4. Alternative Penny Materials Considered—and Rejected

• Swapping zinc or copper for cheaper metals like steel didn’t sufficiently lower costs.
• Non-metallic alternatives also proved impractical.
• "Swapping in a cheaper metal like steel would still cost more than $0.01." — Waylon Wong [07:43]

5. The Cultural and Artistic Afterlife of Pennies

• Artist Robert Wexler:

  • Has spent over 20 years making penny-based art, including a "100,000 Penny Cube," completed after seven years.
  • "I was worried that the penny would be canceled and removed from currency before I finished, because if I finished the piece after that, it would be nothing but a memorial to the penny. And I didn't like that idea because for me, it has a lot more to say." — Robert Wexler [09:20]
  • He describes the transformation of penny surfaces: "...they do turn blue and green, but they also turn like these spectacular oranges and reds or these like really lovely waxy blacks. And it's so unique and special and just it's like a little world." — Robert Wexler [10:20]
  • Anecdotes about the practical difficulties of sourcing large quantities of pennies from banks [09:56].

• Museum Culture:

  • Lincoln Library and Museum volunteers hide pennies for kids to find, tying Lincoln's image to a sense of discovery and national identity.
  • "So it's really cute seeing kids like 3 and 4 year olds running around the plaza looking for the penny to find it." — Christina Shutt [11:12]

6. What Happens Next? (and the Nickel’s Fate)

• Pennies will linger in art, bank deposits, and museum experiments.
• Gift shops, like the one at the Lincoln Museum, are already refusing pennies.
• "How about nickels? I hear these lose even more money now than the penny did. … last year it cost the mint close to 14 cents to produce a nickel. That's more than double its face value. So I don't know, maybe we'll do a nickel obit next year." — Waylon Wong [11:38–11:43]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Penny Humor:
  • "I would give you a penny for your thoughts. Except that pennies are worth 4 cents so you're getting a bonus." — Ed Moy [04:53]
• Congress’ Priorities:
  • "A $80 million loss. It's a rounding error of a rounding error in the federal government." — Ed Moy [07:24]
• Artistic Vision:
  • "They live in muck and they're exposed to unspeakable filth. But… they do turn blue and green, but also spectacular oranges and reds..." — Robert Wexler [10:20]
• Nostalgic Magic:
  • "His grandfather would pretend to pull a penny out of his ear. He kept those coins in an orange Tupperware container because they felt magical to him." — Waylon Wong [09:36]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:06] – Introduction to the penny’s cultural reach (including Mars!)
• [03:16] – The last penny minted; scale of remaining pennies
• [04:41] – Interview with former US Mint Director Ed Moy
• [06:37] – Rising production costs; Congressional response
• [09:07] – Robert Wexler discusses his penny art project
• [10:47] – Where do old pennies go? (art, coin jars, museums)
• [11:38] – The nickel’s even-worse cost problem

Structure & Tone

The episode blends playful banter and gentle humor with surprisingly heartfelt reminiscences and sober economics. Listeners leave with a sense that even an “innocent” coin like the penny is tied to big themes: national history, culture, and the hidden math behind government decisions.

For Further Listening

Though the penny’s days are over, its story embodies the intertwining of policy, memory, and everyday life. For those interested in more on the economics of currency, follow NPR’s The Indicator.