The Science Of Fear And Horror Movies

Summary

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Short Wave – “The Science Of Fear And Horror Movies”

NPR | Hosts: Regina Barber
October 6, 2025
Guest: Dr. Arash Javumbach (Psychiatrist, Wayne State University)

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Episode Overview

This Short Wave episode dives into the science of fear: why it exists, how it works, and why some people actively seek it out through horror movies. Host Regina Barber interviews Dr. Arash Javumbach, psychiatrist and author of Afraid, about the evolutionary roots of fear, the overlap with anxiety, the psychological appeal of horror, and how scientific understanding is shaping treatments for phobias and anxiety disorders. The conversation is open, relatable, and peppered with personal stories and cutting-edge research.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Do We Feel Fear? (04:50)

• Evolutionary Context:
  Dr. Javumbach explains that fear is an ancient biological system, evolved to keep us alive in the face of physical threats.

  “A hundred thousand years ago, the threats that our species was facing were very different than the threats we are facing in the modern life.”
  (05:00 – Dr. Arash Javumbach)

• Modern Relevance:
  Today, fear often manifests in situations where there’s no physical threat (e.g., public speaking), but our bodies still react as if we’re in danger — sweaty palms, racing heart, etc.

Fear vs. Anxiety (02:28)

• Key Distinction:

  "Fear is more directed towards a clear threat. But anxiety is when I am expecting something bad to happen but I don't have a clear idea about."
  (02:35 – Dr. Arash Javumbach)

• Prevalence:
  Anxiety and trauma-related disorders are common, affecting 20-30% of people at a clinical level (02:09).

The Purpose and Power of Fear (03:13)

• Protective Role:

  “Fear is a universal response and system put in all biological beings with one purpose: to keep us alive.”
  (02:48 – Dr. Arash Javumbach)

• Historical Utility:
  Fear told our ancestors to run from predators; anxiety discouraged dangerous repeat behaviors.

Why Some People Love Horror Movies (06:16)

• Overlap with Thrill:

  “The biology of thrill and biology of fear are overlapping because you need the same sympathetic nervous system. That's what makes you feel alive and excited.”
  (06:30 – Dr. Arash Javumbach)

• Sense of Control:
  Horror movies create “false alarms” — you experience real fear in a safe, controlled setting, which can be exhilarating (07:23).
• Mindfulness Factor:
  During an engaging film, viewers become absorbed and mindful, their worries momentarily set aside (07:43).

Can Horror Movies Ease Anxiety? (07:31)

• Exposure & Mastery:
  Facing scary scenarios in fiction gives a sense of mastery over fear, “a sense of fulfillment at the end…one of those people who survived” (08:30).
• Therapeutic Potential:
  For certain people, horror movies can actually reduce anxiety by providing controlled exposure to fear and a period of emotional detachment from real-life stressors.

Treating Fear & Anxiety Disorders (08:30)

• Therapies Available:
  • Talk Therapy: Discussing and dismantling harmful beliefs or triggers.
  • Exposure Therapy: Gradual, safe exposure to feared objects/situations.
  • Medication: Used to reduce the intensity of anxiety so the logical brain can function (08:51).
  • Exercise:

    "What you can do is better than nothing...the more cardio the better." (10:12)

    • Exercise also builds community and social resilience.

Augmented Reality in Fear Treatment (11:01)

• Innovation in Exposure Therapy:
  Dr. Javumbach uses augmented reality (AR) headsets (like HoloLens), which superimpose feared stimuli (e.g., spiders) into the real environment for safe, controlled exposure.

  “Everybody with terrible fear of spiders was able to touch a real tarantula. His name is Tony Stark.” (11:57 - Dr. Arash Javumbach)

• Fun Fact: The therapy’s tarantula is indeed named Tony Stark (12:07).

Reducing Stigma: Fear is Normal (12:10)

• Universal Experience:

  "A human without fear doesn't have a very good chance of survival...Being able to experience fear and anxiety is normal. And also a lot of times, it's a motivator."
  (12:25 – Dr. Arash Javumbach)

• On Shame and Seeking Help:
  Comparing anxiety disorders to diabetes or high blood pressure — just another medical condition, not a personal failure (12:25).

  "[In] this day and age, there's too much anxiety...one in five or four people around me are experiencing these conditions to a level we call clinically significant."
  (13:32 – Dr. Arash Javumbach)

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Most Memorable Quotes

• On Horror Movie Enjoyment:

  "I feel more alive when I am in situations like this because you logically know this is something happening on the tv...but a big chunk of you...believes it...because that involves their thrill brain and excitement brain and gives them a sense of control."
  (01:29 - Dr. Arash Javumbach)

• On Treating Anxiety:

  “One reason I'm in the field of anxiety and trauma is that they are so treatable and people don't have to suffer for a long life.”
  (08:51 - Dr. Arash Javumbach)

• On Stigma:

  "How can I be ashamed of something that is affecting one in five people around me?...do you want to spend these years of your youth in fear, or do you want to fix it and be able to enjoy them, because you will never be young again?"
  (13:32 – Dr. Arash Javumbach)

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Notable Moments and Timestamps

• [00:58] Dr. Javumbach’s favorite horror movies: The Exorcist and Hereditary
• [02:28] Defining the difference between fear and anxiety
• [05:00] The fight-or-flight response and its evolutionary roots
• [06:30] Why our brains are “fooled” (and thrilled) by safe scares
• [07:43] The concept of horror movies as temporary mindfulness and stress relief
• [11:01] Augmented reality therapy demonstration and “Tony Stark the tarantula”
• [12:07] Normalizing fear—no shame in experiencing it

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Closing Thoughts

This episode offers both scientific depth and relatability, uncovering why fear isn’t just normal but potentially useful — even as entertainment. Dr. Javumbach’s insights break down stigma and encourage listeners to see fear as both natural and treatable, whether through therapy, medicine, movement, or even a well-chosen horror flick.

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Transcript

[Announcer]

This message comes from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer center this October. For a short time, your gift to MSK will be triple matched to help support breast cancer research, treatment and care. Donate [e-mail] match.

[Regina Barber]

You'Re listening to Short Wave Wave wave wave wave wave wave from npr. Hey, short wavers. Regina Barber here and I'm going to tell you a secret. I am scared of pretty much everything. Heights, the dark, whales, small spaces, plane rides. And I'm definitely not a fan of scary movies. Some people love to be scared though, like Dr. Arash Javumbach, a psychiatrist from Wayne State University in Michigan.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

I do love scary movies.

[Regina Barber]

Do you really?

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

Yeah.

[Regina Barber]

What's your favorite scary movie?

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

There's two of them. Exorcist, that I watched when I was a teenager and Hereditary scared me a lot.

[Regina Barber]

He loves talking about fear and anxiety so much. Not only did he make it part of his job, he wrote a whole book called Afraid. Throughout the book, he gets into many of the reasons people are afraid, including the reason he loves those horror movies so much.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

I feel more alive when I am in situations like this because you logically know this is something happening on the tv. And these are all actors and actresses. There is no reality to it. But a big chunk of you, big part of your psychic being believes it understands it because that involves their thrill brain and excitement brain and gives them a sense of control.

[Regina Barber]

I don't know about you, but sometimes it feels like my brain takes this need to control a little too far into the chronic anxiety realm. But Arash says it's not just me.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

Anxiety and fear related disorders and trauma related disorders are very common. The fact is that they are not visible, right? So we don't see it in each other. And I may think I'm the only one to break the stigma. I wanted to bring this up. About 20, 30% of the general population pass the clinical threshold for an anxiety disorder.

[Regina Barber]

Anna Rasch gets into this important distinction. That's very tricky for my brain to make the difference between fear and anxiety.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

Fear is more directed towards a clear threat. But anxiety is when I am expecting something bad to happen but I don't have a clear idea about.

[Regina Barber]

Both of these feelings can be helpful though.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

Fear is a universal response and system put in all biological beings with one purpose to keep us alive. It's one of the most important functions in any biology which job is to keep us safe and protect our existence.

[Regina Barber]

In human history, fear has kept us safe when running from predators and anxiety keeps us from going back to that line. Infested area. But what happens when these feelings get out of hand in humans today? Today on the show fear. What is it good for? Why do some people love horror movies? And what can we do about our phobias? You're listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from N.

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[Regina Barber]

We'Re gonna go back to our human prehistoric relatives. What is the purpose of fear?

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

I always say to understand fear, we have to understand fear in the context it evolved. So we're talking about the system, which is very old. A hundred thousand years ago, the threats that our species was facing were very different than the threats we are facing in the modern life. So if I am talking to a group of people, my heart is pounding, my body is sweaty, my pupils are dilated, I'm breathing rapidly. All those experiences which don't make sense because they are not helping me. They are basically blocking my ability to function. But back in time when we were these tribal animals or more primitive humans, the real dangers and threats in the environment were all physical. If I was among a group of my tribemates and things went wrong, chances were high. In a matter of minutes I would have to engage in a fight or run away from them. So sympathetic nervous system, this fight and flight system activates to pump the blood to the muscles and put me in a heightened state of arousal and alertness for the maximum optimal physical activity. And that's why body gets engaged in the way it does, which doesn't most of the times make sense in the modern life. Anxieties and worries.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, like I know what you're talking about. This like false alarm, because I'm just thinking about how Important of a survival skill. You're saying fear is. But why do some people, like, really enjoy watching horror movies? Is. Is it that false alarm?

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

Absolutely. We are basically taking advantage of that false alarm. I mean, the biology of thrill and biology of fear are overlapping because you need the same sympathetic nervous system. That's what makes you feel alive and excited. And that's why, let's say, even like when you're in love, when you are experiencing joyful experiences, a big part of that system is involved. Your heart is pounding. So a lot of overlaps here contribute to the excitement that we enjoy. But the other part is that part of this brain or psyche knows what is going on. So it's like sometimes you people may put a video of a dog aggressively barking on the TV and get their own dog riled up. And while the dog is barking, you're laughing and enjoying. So this is the same thing we are doing when I'm watching a horror movie. So the animal gets riled up.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

But the cognitive brain knows what's going on. But for this, we need a certain level of balance between these two parts.

[Regina Barber]

Right. Well, and some research has looked into, like, how horror movies might actually, like, ease anxiety in some people. And it could actually, like, be therapeutic for some people to watch horror movies in several ways.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

One way is that we know mindfulness helps a lot. When you're watching a good horror movie or any good movie, you are totally dissociated from all the challenges you have in your life now. You are totally there, and you are detached from what's going on in the world. So there is a moment of mindfulness there. But you also have sense of control here, which means there are a lot of anxieties out there. I don't have control over them. Right. But here there's a situation which is controlled. So I have an exposure to fear. I'm facing some challenges, but I. I am overcoming those. So there's a sense of fulfillment at the end. I am one of those people who survived at the end of the movie.

[Regina Barber]

Okay, totally. So let's dig more into therapies, though, like, and treatments. Because, you know, fear and anxiety can get to levels that can be detrimental. I mean, like, I know that, like, at one point I had to take medication just to get on a plane because I was so afraid of turbulence. So, like, what can be done when anxiety gets to a point that it's, like, affecting your life?

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

One reason I'm in this field is I always say, when I did train residents and other physicians, one Reason I'm in the field of anxiety and trauma is that they are so treatable and people don't have to suffer for a long life. So we have therapies, which is basically different types of talk therapy. One way is, for example, we talk about the preconceptions that might be in my mind, whether consciously or subconsciously, that lead to me, for example, putting too much weight on how people judge me, leading to my social anxiety and avoiding social situations. There's also exposure therapy, which we will talk about it more later, which is basically gradually exposed me to more tangible fears. But then we also have medications, and when we talk medications, they just reduce the intensity of the anxiety level to the point that I can use my logical brain more comfortably. And of course, a lot of times there's a balance of between my biology and my psychology in terms of development of these conditions. So the more the weight of the biological aspect, the more helpful the medications. And of course, I would love to talk about exercise, because that's one of the best ways to address anxiety. I prescribe it for my patients.

[Regina Barber]

What kind of exercises do you prescribe?

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

So the first thing is what you can do, because whatever you can do is better than nothing. But what we know from literature is the more cardio the aspect of the exercise, the better it helps with the biological changes. But there are also a lot of other factors and aspects there also. Right. I go to the gym, I see some people, I meet some other people, I go for a walk, I meet my neighbor, I may get a dog to walk him. So all these different aspects of social interactions that join the effect of the exercise, that can also help with basically community building and other aspects.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, I love that. I mean, I've noticed in myself, like, doing more exercise has helped my anxiety. And I understand, like, you're investigating, like, a specific way to treat fear using augmented reality. Like with a HoloLens, this screen strapped to somebody's head.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

Yeah. So first I want to say augmented reality is different than VR or virtual reality. In a way, it is. Like example I always use is Iron Man. So Iron Man, Tony Stark, what he had was basically augmented reality. You could see the real, and then the unreal. Was superimposing. So let's say we talked about exposure therapy. It's a very effective treatment. But the problem is if someone came to my office and said, I'm afraid of dogs or spiders or snakes or humans, I don't have a dog or a spider or snake in my office to do that. So we use augmented Reality glasses to help people create the environments of situations that they're afraid of that we cannot create easily in the clinic. In real world, let's say looking at a spider, a dog, or a stranger for people with social anxiety or ptsd, helping people face their fears in a matrix, like augmented environment. And we use it for treating these fears and phobias.

[Regina Barber]

Okay.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

And we are very impressed. Like, we have published the data. Everybody with terrible fear of spiders was able to touch a real tarantula. His name is Tony Stark.

[Regina Barber]

Wait, the spider is named Tony Stark?

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

Yes. Yes.

[Regina Barber]

Okay. So what's really important for me is to talk about how fear is something that's, like, natural and it's normal. What do you tell your patients that are, like, ashamed of experiencing fear on these various levels?

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

So, first, a human without fear doesn't have a very good chance of survival. It's like a human without the ability to experience pain will end up with a lot of injuries and a lot of burns and a lot of wounds. So being able to experience fear and anxiety is normal. And also a lot of times, it's a motivator. I have a whole chapter in the book about how to utilize our own anxiety. It's not always an enemy in the modern life. We see it as an appendix that we have to throw away, but it's a friend, which is a lot of times misguided. But when it comes to the pathological levels, when it is basically taking away our ability to enjoy life and function, then it's like being ashamed of having diabetes or high blood pressure or any other medical condition, because we are talking about a brain which is processing things in a different way, which is very common in all humans. And these days, in this day and age, there's too much anxiety pushed on us by the environment, by the media, by the social media. So about, like, one in five or four people around me are experiencing these conditions to a level, what we call it, clinically significant. So how can I be ashamed of something that is affecting one in five people around me? And a lot of it is not in my hand either. It's a biology which was handed over to me, or even a big chunk of my psychology is not of my determination? At the end of the day, what I find very motivating, because now I'm utilizing fear, is I remind people, you will not be. Do you want to spend these years of your youth in fear, or do you want to fix it and be able to enjoy them because you will never be young again?

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, Arash, thank you so much. I have loved this conversation. Thank you for coming to talk to us about fear.

[Dr. Arash Javumbach]

I appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me on your show.

[Regina Barber]

This episode was produced by Rachel Carlson. It was edited by showrunner Rebecca Ramirez and Tyler Jones. Check the facts. The audio engineer was Simon Laszlo Jansen, Bet Donovan is our senior director and Colin Campbel is our senior vice president of podcasting strategy. I'm Regina Barber. Thank you for listening to Short Wave from npr. I'm still very afraid of so many things.

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