This July 4th, are you a thrill- or chill-seeker?

Summary

Short Wave – July 3, 2026

Episode Title: This July 4th, are you a thrill- or chill-seeker?
Host: Emily Kwong
Guest: Dr. Ken Carter, Clinical Psychologist, Oxford College of Emory University

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Brief Overview

This Short Wave episode, hosted by Emily Kwong, explores why some people are “thrill-seekers” who crave the excitement of lighting illegal fireworks on the Fourth of July, while others are “chill-seekers” who prefer to watch from a safe distance with a fire extinguisher nearby. Clinical psychologist Ken Carter joins to break down the science and psychology behind sensation-seeking, discussing brain chemistry, the sensation seeking scale, influences of genetics and environment, and how the spectrum of personalities plays out during high-octane festivities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Fireworks Memories & Sensation-Seeking Types

• Ken Carter shares childhood experiences highlighting the contrast between himself (a cautious “chill-seeker”) and his brother (a classic “thrill-seeker”) on July 4th.

  “I remember sort of thinking about like what I would do if something went wrong, like where the emergency room was going to be…” – Ken Carter [00:32]

• Carter describes sensation seekers as:

  “…the types who on the 4th of July have probably driven across state lines to buy fireworks that might not be legal in your current state…” – Ken Carter [00:58]

• In contrast, chill-seekers are the ones prepared for emergencies:

  “…being prepared, the kind of people who might bring something to put out the fire.” – Ken Carter [01:20]

2. The Sensation-Seeking Scale

• Ken uses a 40-point survey to measure sensation-seeking.
  • Emily: “Oh, that's quite low.”
  • Ken: “It's quite low.” (on his own score of 8 out of 40) [02:07]
• Most people fall somewhere in the middle, enjoying excitement but experiencing some anxiety.

3. Brain Chemistry: Dopamine and Cortisol

• Carter unpacks the neurobiology:
  • In chaotic situations, low/average sensation-seekers produce more cortisol (stress), while high sensation-seekers produce less cortisol but more dopamine (pleasure).

  “…for average and low sensation seekers, it produces a lot of cortisol in their body… High sensation seekers, on the other hand, don't tend to produce that much cortisol … they actually produce higher amounts of another chemical called dopamine… involved in pleasure.” – Ken Carter [04:02]

4. Roots of Sensation-Seeking: Genetics vs. Environment

• Genetics play a significant role, but unpredictable childhood experiences can also influence sensation-seeking tendencies.

  “There's some genetics involved in it, for sure, but the environment plays a piece as well.” – Ken Carter [05:15]

• Adulthood trauma (e.g., combat veterans triggered by fireworks) can alter reactions but isn’t the same as baseline sensation-seeking trait.

  “What I study is sensation seeking as a personality trait, which can change a little bit over time...” – Ken Carter [05:51]

5. Sensation-Seeking: More Than ‘Thrill or Chill’ (The Four Types)

• There are four dimensions in the Sensation Seeking Scale:
  1. Thrill and Adventure Seeking: Physical risks/events.
  2. Experience Seeking: Sensory and mental novelty (e.g., new foods, adventure travel).
  3. Disinhibition: Willingness to act impulsively.
  4. Boredom Susceptibility: Irritability or distress with monotonous situations.

  “...the first two tell me the kinds of things you might choose. The last two components tell me how much trouble you might get yourself into...” – Ken Carter [07:20]

6. Personal Scores, Stories, Anchors

• Emily Kwong scores a 32 (high), shares injuring herself running in extreme heat but not feeling stressed—a characteristic of high sensation-seekers.

  “...I really wasn't stressed. Even though other people would have been very stressed in that situation.” – Emily Kwong [09:04]

• High sensation-seekers often recover quickly from injury; they’re underrepresented in ER stats.
• The importance of “anchors”—friends, family, or responsibilities—that help high sensation-seekers balance risk.

  “A lot of people will have what I call anchors… who will pull them back from doing things that are too dangerous.” – Ken Carter [09:45]

7. The Value of High Sensation Seekers

• High sensation-seekers are important for pushing boundaries and innovation.

  “We need high sensation seekers… These are the people who sort of push the boundaries…” – Ken Carter [10:19]

• The willingness to try new experiences is valuable, even for those lower on the thrill spectrum.

8. Beyond Self-Report: Research Approaches

• Example: Dutch driving study found high sensation-seekers followed cars more closely, with less stress.

  “…the low sensation seekers… followed that car kind of far back and were pretty stressed out when they were doing it. The high sensation seekers followed really closely behind and their stress response was relatively low...” – Ken Carter [11:11]

9. What High Sensation Seekers Say: The Adrenaline Myth

• Many “adrenaline junkies” aren’t seeking adrenaline itself, but the experience and clarity.

  “Will Gad… told me that adrenaline is a terrible drug… the reason why he's doing it is for the experience, what it's going to feel like to do it.” – Ken Carter [12:22]

• The sense of focus and clarity can last for weeks post-thrill.

10. Practical Advice for July 4th

• Everyone should “lean into your awe”—do what authentically feels awesome and safe.

  “Lean into your awe, find the thing that feels awesome for you and do that unapologetically. As long as it's, you know, safe and it's not going to hurt anybody…” – Ken Carter [13:50]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ken Carter on childhood caution:
  “I was a very cautious kid.” [00:43]
• On thrill-seeking spectrum:
  “I've always been amazed how two people can have the same experience but kind of have a different emotional reaction from it.” – Ken Carter [01:46]
• Emily on her sensation seeking:
  “…I can tell you that I'm laid up in bed right now with a thrown out back because I decided to go sprinting in 90 degree heat...” – Emily Kwong [08:39]
• Ken on the need for thrill seekers:
  “We need high sensation seekers… These are the people that keep us protected. These are the people who sort of push the boundaries.” [10:19]
• Ken’s closing advice:
  “Lean into your awe, find the thing that feels awesome for you and do that unapologetically.” [13:50]

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Key Timestamps

• [00:32] – Introduction to Ken Carter and different July 4th attitudes
• [04:02] – Brain chemistry: cortisol and dopamine differences
• [07:20] – The Four Types of Sensation Seeking
• [08:39] – Emily’s personal high-sensation-seeking story
• [11:11] – Driving study: physiological research on sensation seekers
• [12:22] – The ‘adrenaline junkie’ myth & post-thrill clarity
• [13:50] – Ken Carter’s advice for non-thrill seekers on July 4th

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Summary

In this brisk, insightful Short Wave episode, psychologist Ken Carter and host Emily Kwong unpack what makes thrill-seekers tick, why fireworks may delight some but alarm others, and why the world needs both types—plus, how to use this self-knowledge for a happier, safer holiday. Whether you run toward the sparkler or hide with the fire extinguisher, science has your back.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Emily Kwong]

You're listening to Short Wave from NPR. As a kid on the Fourth of July, Kang Carter's family would always get together, have a picnic and light fireworks. His brother brother loved that part. Ken not so much.

[Ken Carter]

I remember sort of thinking about like what I would do if something went wrong, like where the emergency room was going to be, hoping I wasn't going to blow my hand up, that kind of stuff. I was a very cautious kid.

[Emily Kwong]

Ken is a clinical psychologist at Oxford College of Emory University where he studies sensation seekers, people who may enjoy risk, thrill or a new sensation. The types who on the 4th of

[Ken Carter]

July have probably driven across state lines to buy fireworks that might not be legal in your current state, looking for the largest explosions, the most beautiful colors, and have invited the, you know, neighborhood people over to their house to witness that.

[Emily Kwong]

Ken, by comparison, is a self described chill seeker.

[Ken Carter]

The types of people who are looking at the fireworks, wondering whether or not those are legal in the state and being prepared, the kind of people who might bring something to put out the fire.

[Emily Kwong]

Most people, Ken says, are probably in

[Ken Carter]

the middle who are going to enjoy it but may be nervous every now and then.

[Emily Kwong]

And this spectrum of personality on display as fireworks burst overhead has always intrigued him.

[Ken Carter]

I've always been amazed how two people can have the same experience but kind of have a different emotional reaction from it.

[Emily Kwong]

As a psychologist, ken uses a 40 point scale to measure someone's self sensation seeking behavior. And he has met people who score 38, even 40.

[Ken Carter]

I'm actually at an eight out of 40.

[Emily Kwong]

Oh, that's quite low.

[Ken Carter]

It's quite low.

[Emily Kwong]

So today on the show, the psychology and brain chemistry of why some people like to light illegal Roman candles on the 4th of July while others watch from a distance with a fire extinguisher in hand. Plus how I score on Ken's Sensation Seeking survey. I'm Emily Kwong and you're listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr.

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[Emily Kwong]

us dig deeper into the brain chemistry of what makes some people want to seek out bottle rockets and others keep a far distance from fireworks. What decides this?

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, there are lots of things that really are part of this, and the thing I like to focus on a lot are two chemicals that we have in our body. One is called cortisol. It's a stress hormone. Really helps organize your body systems to handle that fight, flee, or freeze response. And we know that when these highly chaotic things are happening that for average and low sensation seekers, it produces a lot of cortisol in their body and they're trying to react to that cortisol. High sensation seekers, on the other hand, don't tend to produce that much cortisol when they're in those highly chaotic experiences. So when they're seeing those fireworks, they actually produce higher amounts of another chemical called dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter or chemical messenger that's involved in pleasure. So when these high sensation seekers are seeing these fireworks that are illegal from five states away and they're blowing up, they're experiencing a lot of pleasure but not that much stress. And that's why two people can have the same experience, but really their bodies are reacting in a very different way.

[Emily Kwong]

What decides that? The difference among people?

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, there's some genetics involved in it, for sure, but the environment plays a piece as well. There's some evidence that high sensation seekers had some sort of unpredictable, chaotic experiences in general when they were younger. But a lot of it tends to be genetic is really what's what. That's why you see a lot of thrill seekers that can sort of run in families.

[Emily Kwong]

Oh, that's really interesting. What about experiences that happen in adulthood? I'm thinking about people for whom Maybe they didn't have an issue with fireworks before, but then perhaps they were deployed or survived a war, and fireworks for them are now a trauma reminder.

[Ken Carter]

Yeah. And so that's something a little bit different. So what I study is sensation seeking as a personality trait, which can change a little bit over time. But there are some things that might cause people to be to sort of seek that chaos a little bit later, which might include some trauma kinds of experiences. And so what I look at is whether or not this is the kind of thing that's sort of always been like this or did something happen that sort of may have pivoted them towards sort of seeking chaotic experiences. We also know that a lot of these high sensation seekers are create like they pick careers where they're going to be a lot of chaos, and there's going to be a good amount of high sensation seeking involved in that. Whether it's firefighters or first responders or military, a lot of high sensation seekers are drawn to those careers because of their superpower of being able to be calm in those chaotic experiences.

[Emily Kwong]

Okay, so just to clarify, thrill seeking as a personality trait is not a you are or you aren't. It's more of a spectrum.

[Ken Carter]

Yeah. So the original researcher that really looked at this was someone named Zuckerman, and I've done some modifications to his brief sensation seeking survey, and there's four different pieces to it. So you actually might be a sensation seeker but not realize it because you may actually score high in one level, but a little bit lower in another level.

[Emily Kwong]

What are the four categories you're looking at in the survey?

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, so the four categories, number one, is called thrill and adventure seeking, like driving fast or dangerous kinds of things that are really involved, sort of body sensations. Another category is called experience seeking. This is sort of sensations of the mind and of the senses. These are people who like adventure travel or eating strange foods, for example. The first two tell me the kinds of things you might choose. The last two components tell me how much trouble you might get yourself into by trying to seek those things. One's called disinhibition. This is your ability to sort of look before you leap. Those that score low always sort of look and sort of do things carefully. Those that score high, just do stuff and figure out the consequences later. The last one's called boredom susceptibility. This has to do with how quickly you get bored and how irritated you get when you get bored.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah. So you wrote an entire book about thrill seeking called Inside the Minds of Thrill Seekers. Daredevils and adrenaline junkies. You have the survey in there?

[Ken Carter]

Yes.

[Emily Kwong]

The whole team took it on short wave. Oh, you scored an eight.

[Ken Carter]

I did. I'm very proud of those eight points. I mean, I earned every one. Yeah.

[Emily Kwong]

My score was 32 and I can tell you that I'm laid up in bed right now with a thrown out back because I decided to go sprinting in 90 degree heat on Wednesday. And when I was out there, I was like, this is fun. And then later I came inside and I was like, was that a good idea? And then my back hurt the following day. And then I was like, that's probably fine. No stress. No stress response occurred. And my husband was like, you need to lie down. Like you're. You have injured yourself. So that's why I am recording this from my bed. Because, yeah, I really wasn't stressed. Even though other people would have been very stressed in that situation.

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. A lot of high sensation seekers will say that will actually bounce back quicker when they do have an injury and they're ready to do it again. There is a guy that actually, there are many high sensation seekers are actually underrepresented in emergency room situations because they can actually avoid getting injured. But when they do get injured, they bounce back relatively quickly.

[Emily Kwong]

And you said you've met people who are 40.

[Ken Carter]

Oh, yes, I've met 38. S, 40s, 32. Still pretty, pretty high. Yeah. But a lot of people will have what I call anchors in their life who are people who will pull them back from doing things that are too dangerous. They could be family, friends, kids, or even certain jobs where you think about whether or not you might want to get injured, you might get injured and that sort of keeps them anchored a little bit more.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah, yeah, Very important. Important. The balance seems very important of anchors and people who are. Let's have a little adventure.

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, I think so too. To me, we need high sensation seekers. We need these thrill seekers out there. These are the people that keep us protected. These are the people who sort of push the boundaries. They eat foods that we're going to taste them for the very first time and take a big bite out of them and they end up having these really amazing experiences. And I think there are things we can all learn from these high sensations. Even if you're not one, you can learn some really great things from them. Like how, you know, I used to be a person who wouldn't try new foods, but now I know, like, you know, the worst thing that can happen is that you don't like it.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah. Or if you have an allergic reaction, grab that EpiPen.

[Ken Carter]

Yes, yes, yes. Be careful. But just. But being disgusted isn't the worst thing.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah. Going back to the science, aside from kind of self reported survey results, how else do psychologists like yourself study such a personality trait?

[Ken Carter]

There was a study done in the Netherlands where they looked at how high sensation seeking might impact how a person drives. They actually had people who were following a pace car in front of them and they were hooked up to some physiological devices to measure their heart rate and their sort of stress response and also the distance they followed the car in front of them. And the low sensation seekers, as you can imagine, followed that car kind of far back and were pretty stressed out when they were doing it. The high sensation seekers followed really closely behind and their stress response was relatively low. So this is why if you're in a car with a high sensation seeker who's changing lanes and moving through traffic and you're wondering and you're really stressed out, if you're a low sensation seeker, it's important to remember that they're not really stressed at all. And that if you're, if your friend that's in the driver is in the companion seat, says they're stressed, they might be.

[Emily Kwong]

This is good advice. Listen to your friends while driving. Okay. Well, Ken, since your book came out in 2019, have you learned anything new about sensation seeking?

[Ken Carter]

Yeah, I think what I've, I've been focusing on a lot since the book is how those people who aren't high sensation seekers, what we can learn from those high sensation seekers, we think about these high sensation seekers really being adrenaline junkies, but they're kind of not. And one of the things they've told me is that adrenaline is a really bad drug. Will Gad was the very first person to climb up Niagara Falls when it was frozen. And he's told me that adrenaline is a terrible drug. If he was just after adrenaline, he would just run back and forth in traffic. But he told me the reason why he's doing it is for the experience, what it's going to feel like to do it. And you need to be able to focus really well. And so the fact that he has lower levels of cortisol because he's a high sensation seeker lets him to be able to focus and do that really well. And there's some evidence that that emotional regulation that you garner to be able to do those complicated things can last even after the event. A lot of high sensation seekers, I talk to say they'll do things like, you know, wingsuit flying or bungee jumping, and it gives them clarity and they'll do that before they make a big decision. And that clear sense of mind can last for weeks after those events.

[Emily Kwong]

So as you prepare for 4th of July, what advice do you have for folks who perhaps are not so into fireworks? What do you think people should do?

[Ken Carter]

I always tell people to lean into your awe, find the thing that feels awesome for you and do that unapologetically. As long as it's, you know, safe and it's not going to hurt anybody, that is.

[Emily Kwong]

Ken Carter, a clinical psychologist at Emory University, thank you so much for coming on the show.

[Ken Carter]

Thanks for having me.

[Emily Kwong]

Have a safe, happy holiday, short wavers, whatever you decide to do. This episode was Produced by Burleigh McCoy. It was edited and fact checked by our showrunner, Rebecca Ramirez. The audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. Beth Donovan is our senior director and Colin Campbell is our senior vice president, president of podcasting strategy. I'm Emily Kwong. Thank you for listening to Short Wave from npr.

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