This Telescope Could Find "Planet 9"

Summary

Short Wave Podcast Summary: "This Telescope Could Find 'Planet 9'"

Release Date: April 25, 2025
Host/Author: NPR - Emily Kwong and Regina Barber
Duration: Approximately 13 minutes of content

---

1. Introduction to the Vera C. Rubin Observatory

The episode opens with Regina Barber introducing a revolutionary telescope that diverges from traditional designs. Unlike conventional telescopes that target specific celestial objects, the Vera C. Rubin Observatory functions as a survey telescope, continuously scanning vast portions of the sky.

Regina Barber [00:14]: "Most telescopes are designed to point at a particular object in the sky... Then it moves on to the next galaxy or another star and it does it all over again."

2. Historical Background and Naming

NPR Science Correspondent Nell Greenfield Boyce delves into the observatory's origins, tracing back to an idea proposed in 1996 by scientist Tony Tyson. Initially named the Dark Matter Telescope, the project was later renamed the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope (LSST) to reflect its broader scientific potential. In 2019, to honor the renowned astronomer Vera Rubin, the observatory was renamed the Vera C. Rubin Observatory, marking the first U.S. national observatory named after a woman.

Nell Greenfield Boyce [07:02]: "It means like a general overview or like a summary."

3. Telescope’s Capabilities and Operations

Funded by the National Science Foundation, the Department of Energy, and contributors like Bill Gates and Charles Simonyi, the observatory boasts the world's largest digital camera, comparable in size to a car. Located on a Chilean mountaintop, the telescope is fine-tuning its instruments to capture images of nearly the entire southern sky continuously over a decade.

Nell Greenfield Boyce [00:59]: "This is basically an enormous telescope equipped with the world's biggest digital camera."

The observatory's design emphasizes speed and stability, allowing it to point and shoot rapidly—changing its position every 36 seconds without human intervention.

Nell Greenfield Boyce [08:06]: "The observatory's automatic systems... we have to change position in the sky every 36 seconds."

4. Data Analysis and Big Data in Astronomy

One of the observatory's most groundbreaking features is its ability to handle massive amounts of data in real time. Equipped with advanced computing systems, it compares new images with previous ones to detect any changes, such as brightening stars, moving asteroids, or other anomalies.

Nell Greenfield Boyce [02:08]: "Part of what makes this observatory special is the way it's going to analyze all this data in real time."

The observatory is expected to generate approximately 10 million changes every night, presenting both an unprecedented opportunity and a significant challenge for astronomers to sift through and identify meaningful phenomena.

Nell Greenfield Boyce [09:07]: "They're going to have to figure out like what's going on there, which ones really matter."

Scott Shepard from Carnegie Science emphasizes the paradigm shift from traditional observation to data mining, likening the influx of information to a "fire hose."

Scott Shepard [09:53]: "Astronomers... are going to have to sift through it to find everything, including planets."

5. The Quest for Planet Nine

A central focus of the episode is the observatory's potential to uncover Planet Nine, a hypothesized large planet lurking beyond Neptune. The existence of Planet Nine is inferred from the unusual orbits of several distant dwarf planets, suggesting gravitational influences from an unseen massive body.

Nell Greenfield Boyce [10:34]: "It's a definite maybe."

Scott Shepard, one of the scientists advocating for Planet Nine's existence, remains optimistic about the observatory’s ability to detect it, contingent upon the planet's brightness and proximity.

Scott Shepard [10:34]: "Vera Rubin, our best bet to find it in the next few years."

Mike Brown, famed for redefining Pluto's status, expresses full confidence in the observatory's capability, stating that if given sufficient resources, he would have constructed the Rubin Observatory solely for this purpose.

Nell Greenfield Boyce [11:44]: "He's absolutely convinced Planet Nine is real."

6. Potential Discoveries and Future Implications

Beyond the search for Planet Nine, the Vera C. Rubin Observatory is poised to revolutionize astronomy by capturing a dynamic and comprehensive view of the night sky. The continuous monitoring will facilitate discoveries related to asteroids, supernovae, variable stars, and possibly entirely new celestial phenomena.

Nell Greenfield Boyce [12:03]: "The Rubin Observatory... to discover, and people think it's going to be like a discovery machine."

7. Conclusion

Regina Barber wraps up the episode by highlighting the transformative potential of the Vera C. Rubin Observatory in the realm of astronomy. The hosts express excitement about the forthcoming data and the possibility of groundbreaking discoveries, including the elusive Planet Nine.

Regina Barber [12:46]: "If that happens though, clear a spot for us on your calendar because we are definitely going to want to talk about it."

Nell Greenfield Boyce assures listeners that she will provide detailed coverage should Planet Nine or any other significant discovery materialize.

Nell Greenfield Boyce [12:54]: "Absolutely. I will be back here with the details."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Nell Greenfield Boyce [02:08]: "Part of what makes this observatory special is the way it's going to analyze all this data in real time."

• Scott Shepard [09:53]: "Astronomers... are going to have to sift through it to find everything, including planets."

• Scott Shepard [10:34]: "Vera Rubin, our best bet to find it in the next few years."

• Nell Greenfield Boyce [11:44]: "He's absolutely convinced Planet Nine is real."

• Regina Barber [12:46]: "If that happens though, clear a spot for us on your calendar because we are definitely going to want to talk about it."

---

Key Takeaways

• Vera C. Rubin Observatory is a state-of-the-art survey telescope designed to scan the entire southern sky continuously over ten years.

• Its massive digital camera and automated systems enable unprecedented data collection and real-time analysis.

• The observatory holds the potential to discover Planet Nine, a theorized large planet beyond Neptune, among countless other astronomical phenomena.

• The project exemplifies the integration of big data and advanced computing in modern astronomy, marking a significant shift from traditional observational methods.

• With contributions from notable figures and organizations, the Rubin Observatory stands as a testament to collaborative scientific advancement.

---

Produced by Rachel Carlson, Edited by Rebecca Ramirez, Fact-Checked by Tyler Jones. Special thanks to NPR’s team for their dedication to bringing complex scientific topics to a broad audience.

Transcript

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

This message comes from Amazon Pharmacy. Ever looked a pharmacist in the eye and said, hi, I'm here to pick up my cold sore prescription? Amazon Pharmacy delivers right to you so you can get meds without your lip doing the talking.

[Regina Barber]

Amazon Pharmacy, you're listening to shortwave from npr. Hey, shortwavers. Regina Barber here. And today we're going to talk about a powerful, highly unusual telescope that's just now starting up. Most telescopes are designed to point at a particular object in the sky, maybe a certain galaxy or planet or star, so that astronomers can study it in detail. Then it moves on to the next galaxy or another star and it does it all over again.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

So that's not what this telescope is doing. Right? Okay. This is a survey telescope. It means it's almost scanning the entire sky.

[Regina Barber]

Hey, Nell.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Hey.

[Regina Barber]

That's NPR science correspondent Nell Greenfield Boyce, everyone. She's here to tell us about the awesome power of the Vera C. Rubin Observatory.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

So this thing is funded by the National Science foundation and the Department of Energy, along with other sources. And it's on a mountaintop in Chile where scientists are currently fine tuning its instruments, which are all finally installed. And this is basically an enormous telescope equipped with the world's biggest digital camera.

[Regina Barber]

It's the size of a car.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

It is enormous. And this camera will be taking images of almost the whole southern sky. And it's gonna do this continuously for like 10 years. So that means every few nights it's gonna cover the whole southern sky, taking.

[Regina Barber]

In everything that's so many images. Like, you could basically make like a movie out of this, like the entire night sky. Like how it changes over time, which is new.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

It is truly unprecedented. I was talking with Bob Blum. He's director of operations for the observatory. Sometime through the first year of this 10 year survey, we'll have already observed more things than astronomers have ever observed before. He means ever, as in like ever through all of history. Wow.

[Regina Barber]

I mean, that. That really boggles my mind. It's like really an astonishing amount of data.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

It truly is. It truly is. And part of what makes this observatory special is the way it's going to analyze all this data in real time. So basically, it compares images with. With each other, you know, the newest images with the images it took before to detect anything that brightens or moves or changes. Okay, so that means it can catch anything that goes bump in the night that astronomers couldn't see before because they weren't just looking in the right spot.

[Regina Barber]

Including possibly like another large planet in our solar system. Right. Like, because my understanding is that this observatory is the best chance of finding the elusive like so called planet, planet nine.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

You know it. So it is looking like the moment of truth for this much ballyhooed possible planet, if it's even there.

[Regina Barber]

So today on the show, the Vera C. Rubin Observatory. What happens when big data comes to astronomy and why its telescope has the best chance of finding another planet in our solar system. Plus what else this radical observatory might see. You're listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from npr.

[Unknown]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Amazon Prime Video presenting Common Ground, a film about the power of agriculture to reshape the planet through sustainable farming. Featuring Jason Momoa, Laura Dern, Donald Glover, Rosario Dawson and Ian Somerhalder. Common Ground profiles a movement of farmers using regenerative models of agriculture that could balance the climate, save people's health and stabilize America's economy. Now streaming only on prime. Support for npr. And the following message come from indeed. Just realizing your business needed to hire someone yesterday, speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Claim your $75 sponsored job credit now at indeed.comshortwave. terms and conditions apply. This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on think or swim. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

[Regina Barber]

All right, Nell, the Rubin Observatory has been in the works for decades. Like, tell me how this idea came about.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Okay, so get in your time machine. Go back to 1996. You may recall the hit song that year was the Macarena.

[Regina Barber]

Yep. Everyone was dancing it.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

And the president was Bill Clinton.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, I was in high school. I was watching a lot of Simpsons. I was playing the saxophone like Lisa. And former President Clinton.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Indeed. So there was this scientist named Tony Tyson, and he had created then what was the world's largest digital camera at the time. And so his group had been invited to hook this camera up to a telescope. And so they were just sitting there together in the telescope's control room taking images of the dark sky, three o'clock in the morning.

[Tony Tyson]

And I said, you know, we can do better.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

He was like, in principle, we could make a camera that's even bigger. I mean, he knew the silicon fabrication technology that he would need to do it was rapidly improving and so was the computing power.

[Regina Barber]

Wow. Okay. So I mean, that's right, like Moore's Law, the, the computer chips were getting like more and more powerful Exactly.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

And so he was like, in principle, we could build this enormous camera. We could put it on a very big telescope and just like collect a ton of data and then mine all that data using computing technologies that didn't even exist back then, but that he knew were definitely coming.

[Tony Tyson]

So I decided that that was going to be the goal and I guess the rest is history.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

He started trying to drum up support, which you gotta do if you want to build a big telescope. And, you know, a couple Years later, in 1998, someone reminded him that there was this consensus panel meeting. So Astronomy has these consensus panels. They meet every 10 years at the National Academies and they set the community's major goals for the future and kind of set priorities. And so it was last minute, but he, you know, decided to pitch this idea.

[Tony Tyson]

So I put together a 50 page proposal, slipped it under the door, and they loaded. They thought it was an interesting idea. They didn't rank at first, but they thought it was a really cool idea. But they didn't like the name.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

He was calling it the Dark Matter Telescope because that's what he wanted to get a lot of data to study. But the panel of experts was like, no, no, this telescope, you know, Observatory complex would be able to do so much more. And, you know, so they called it the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope.

[Tony Tyson]

Everybody I know immediately went to the dictionary to look up the word synoptic, including me.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

I had to look that one up. And now I know it means like a general overview or like a summary.

[Regina Barber]

Yeah, I did not know it, but how did this observatory come to be named after, like, Vera Rubin, the astronomer that's like, famous for work on dark matter?

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

So that happened later in 2019. So, you know, Vera Rubin had died without winning a Nobel, which many people thought was a real shame. And anyway, they figured they could name this after her. And it's the first US national observatory ever named after a woman.

[Regina Barber]

That's awesome.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Anyway, it did take time to get the funding for this. I mean, some of it came from other sources like Microsoft gurus Bill Gates and Charles Simone. Actually, the telescope is named after Charles Simone, the telescope part of it is. But anyway, they were interested in these big data aspects of the project, and then it took a lot of time to build it. I mean, but it's all been coming together. In Chile, on this mountaintop, the huge camera is installed and light from the sky is finally shining down into it through the telescope. All the fine tuning of instruments is finally happening. And the first images are expected to be Made public soon, like within weeks.

[Regina Barber]

Wow. And that's because of this like big camera that. That car size one.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Yeah.

[Regina Barber]

And I'm assuming like these images are really big.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

So the observatory says in its little fact sheets that displaying one at full size would take about 400. Ultra high definition television. Wow. So that's like one image. I was talking to Sandrine Thomas. She's one of the project scientists and a deputy director of construction. She says this telescope is more compact and rigid than other large telescopes and that reduces the vibrations. What that means is that we can move it very quickly and it can stabilize very quickly.

[Regina Barber]

Oh, okay.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

So you can point and shoot. And all that pointing and shooting gets controlled by the observatory's automatic systems. So it's not like human controllers. And the reason is we have to change position in the sky every 36 seconds. And so your brain and your typing is now fast enough to do that.

[Scott Shepard]

Wow.

[Regina Barber]

I mean, Nell, this is just like a mind bending amount of observations. And you said it's all like being immediately analyzed. And I'm assuming this is like all automatic too.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Yeah. So basically they have computer systems that are set up to compare new images to the ones that the telescope previously took. And so that means they're able to see if anything has changed, if there's anything new, like say an asteroid has just flown by or whatever. And so the plan is that they're going to be sending out alerts to astronomers. Wow. So that people can follow up with other telescopes immediately. And I mean, this is going to generate a lot of alerts because there will be a lot of changes. Bob Blum told me it's going to be like 10 million changes every night that they're going to know about. And they're going to have to figure out like what's going on there, which ones really matter. I was talking with Scott Shepard, he's an astronomer at Carnegie Science, and he told me this is just going to revolutionize how you can do astronomy.

[Scott Shepard]

Astronomers. I got to change from observing little areas of sky to basically data mining. That's got to be like a fire hose of data coming in when it goes online. And we're going to have to sift through it to find everything, including planets.

[Regina Barber]

Ooh, planets. Okay, now we're getting into this nitty gritty. Planets move across the sky. That's the kind of change this observatory was built to see. Lay it on me. Is the Vera Rubin Observatory going to find Planet nine?

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Okay. So I asked Scott Shepard that. He's one of the scientists who first suggested that a big planet might be lurking out beyond Neptune. You know, they've been talking about that for like a decade. And he told me it's a definite maybe.

[Scott Shepard]

It's a question of just what kind of planet it is, where it is, how bright it is, how big it is. And Vera Rubens, our best bet to find it in the next few years, probably. And it's going to do. It's going to turn over more rocks than anyone has turned over before.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

I mean, so far, you know, the only evidence for this giant planet's existence comes from a small number of, like, little dwarf planets, like little bodies that are, like, way far out in the solar system. Their orbits are weird in various ways, and the weirdness suggests they're being influenced by the gravitational tug of a big planet. But nobody's seen this thing and, and the evidence, there's only a few of these objects that it's changed maybe potentially the orbits of.

[Regina Barber]

So there's, like, not enough data so they can, like, pinpoint exactly where to look.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Yeah, yeah. So they've sort of narrowed it down, but it's still a huge swath of the sky, Right, that they have to search, and so they just haven't been able to. But the Rubin Observatory, it's got this wide eye on the sky kind of taking in almost everything. If it's there, there's a good chance that it could see it, you know, that's so cool. Assuming the planet's bright enough and close enough. I mean, I was talking with Mike Brown. He's an astronomer at Caltech, kind of famous for killing off Pluto.

[Regina Barber]

Oh, yes.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Anyway, he's, he's absolutely convinced Planet nine is real. He said if you gave him a huge wad of cash and told him to build something to find it, he'd basically build the Rubin Observatory.

[Regina Barber]

Wow, that's so cool. Okay, so when will we know? Like, when could data start coming in that might, like, reveal this planet if it actually does exist?

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

I mean, the telescope is getting up and running. I mean, Mike Brown told me later this year, maybe it'll start putting data out in the public that they can search and, you know, maybe they'll see the planet itself or maybe just find more of those little dwarf planet, little bodies with weird orbits that could lead them to the planet. You know, of all the things this telescope to discover, and people think it's going to be like a discovery machine. Okay. Because like, any little weird thing that changes, like, you know, asteroids, like exploding stars, like, who knows what they might see. That now that they can kind of catch everything anyway, of all those things, a big new solar system planet like one that's bigger than Earth, that's got to be right up there, right? I mean, that's got to be one of the most exciting.

[Regina Barber]

Oh, definitely. Definitely. Nell. If that happens though, clear a spot for us on your calendar because we are definitely going to want to talk about it.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Absolutely. I will be back here with the details.

[Regina Barber]

Nell, thank you so much for bringing us this story.

[Nell Greenfield Boyce]

Oh, always a pleasure to talk to you.

[Regina Barber]

And thank you shortwavers for listening. Follow us on this podcasting platform to make sure you never miss a new episode. And hey, if you have a science question, send us an [e-mail] we may answer it on an upcoming episode. This episode was produced by Rachel Carlson. It was edited by our showrunner Rebecca Ramirez and fact checked by Tyler Jones. Quote Kwesi Lee was the audio engineer, Beth Donovan is our senior director and Colin Campbell is our senior Vice president of Podcasting strategy. I'm Regina Barber. Thank you for listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from N.

[Unknown]

This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on thinkorswim. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from Thrive Market. The food industry is a multi billion dollar industry, but not everything on the shelf is made with your health in mind. At Thrive Market, they go beyond the standards, curating the highest quality products for you and your family while focusing on organic first and restricting more than 1000 harmful ingredients all shipped at your door. Shop at a grocery store that actually cares for your [e-mail] podcast for 30% off your first order plus a $60 free gift. This message comes from Greenlight. Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. Greenlight's debit card and money app can change the course of your kid's financial future. Start your risk free [e-mail] NPR.