Apollo 17 Astronaut Gene Cernan (archival audio) (2:24)

Wow.

Regina Barber (2:25)

Okay. So it's my understanding that the earliest this mission can launch is Today, Wednesday the 1st. And this is the start of the launch. Window, right?

Nell Greenfieldboyce (2:34)

That's right. Yeah. So the earliest is 6:24pm Eastern Time on Wednesday, April 1, but it could be delayed by anything. There could be weather rolling in. There could be technical glitches like maybe a hydrogen leak. And if they have to delay, it depends on what the nature of the problem is. But it takes like 24 to 48 hours to get things reset up so they can try again. But they think over the next week they're going to have several launch opportunities. So people are feeling pretty good that we could see this go.

Regina Barber (3:05)

Cool. Fingers crossed. Today on the show, humans returning to the moon, well, around the moon anyway, and traveling the furthest we as a species have ever gone into space. We'll be answering why people are returning to the moon and what it means for the future of living on other worlds. I'm Regina Barber and you're listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from npr.

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Regina Barber (4:57)

Okay, Nell, so can you explain what these astronauts will be doing once they're in space? Because it's not a sure thing that they're going to the moon. Right?

Nell Greenfieldboyce (5:05)

Right. So this is the first flight of the Orion capsule with a crew on board. So this is a chance for them to test out this vehicle with people on board. And that means testing everything from life support to, you know, even the toilet. This is going to be the first toilet to go around the moon, which is pretty exciting. Yeah, I once they get into space. The Orion capsule separates from the upper stage of the rocket, and they spend a while kind of doing maneuvers around that upper stage of the rocket to kind of practice what it would be like to have the Orion capsule doing rendezvous, doing maneuvers.

Regina Barber (5:44)

Oh, like detaching, coming back in. Okay.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (5:47)

Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of thing they're going to need to do in the future as they plan more ambitious moon missions. And so if everything goes well and it's maneuvering well, and the life support systems are good, and the navigation and everything, then, you know, they could decide whether they're gonna go to the moon.

Regina Barber (6:03)

Okay, so when will they decide whether or not to head out to the moon?

Nell Greenfieldboyce (6:08)

So that comes about one day into the mission. Okay. And if everything looks good, they'll do what's called the translunar injection burn, which is just a fancy way of saying their propulsion system is gonna send them out on this path that takes them on a figure eight around the moon. And, you know, if they go, it'll take them about four days to get out there. It's a distance of over 230,000. Wow.

Regina Barber (6:31)

Okay, so if they do that, if they make that figure 8, how close are they actually going to get to the moon?

Nell Greenfieldboyce (6:37)

Well, not that close.

Regina Barber (6:38)

Okay.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (6:38)

So depending on when they launch and everything, I mean, it's going to be about 4 to 6,000 miles away from the moon.

Regina Barber (6:46)

Okay.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (6:46)

On the other hand, it's a lot closer than the Earth is. Right. So NASA has said that from where they are, the moon is going to look about the size if you held a basketball at arm's length from your face. That's kind of how the moon will look to them. And then, of course, you know, behind it, you'll have the Earth looking very tiny and distant. And then, as you know, as they go around the far side of the moon, there's going to be this communications blackout. So for a while, they won't be in any contact with Earth, and then they'll come around the other side. So it'll be dramatic. You know, it may not be landing. They can't land, but there'll be some drama.

Regina Barber (7:20)

Anyway, still, this mission is a huge deal. Right. Because NASA's been talking about sending humans back to the moon for what feels like forever.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (7:30)

So they've been working on this basically for 22 years.

Regina Barber (7:34)

Yeah.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (7:35)

That's when then President George W. Bush gave a speech saying that NASA was going to finish building the International Space Station, retire the space shuttles, and then build a new vehicle to go to the moon.

Apollo 17 Astronaut Gene Cernan (archival audio) (7:46)

We will build a new ships to carry man forward into the universe, to gain a new foothold on the moon.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (7:56)

So, you know, they've been working towards that ever since. There's been some, you know, detours and twists and turns along the way, but that's been the plan for kind of a long time. And the other thing that's interesting about this mission is there's a lot of firsts involved in it. So it'll be the first woman to go out to the moon. Christina Cook. Astronaut Christina Cook. And there's going to be the first person of color, Victor Glover. And then there's the first non American. So in addition to these NASA astronauts, there's a Canadian Space Agency astronaut named Jeremy Hansen who's going.

Regina Barber (8:26)

So how long after this test mission could we see like a moon landing?

Nell Greenfieldboyce (8:31)

So for a landing you need a lander, right? You need a vehicle that can actually go down to the moon and then get astronauts up off it again. And that's in development. So there's two companies working on it. NASA has contracted with SpaceX and Blue Origin. And, and the new administrator of NASA is this guy, Jared Isaacman. He's a wealthy entrepreneur, a private astronaut, and he's been pushing those two companies to speed up development of the lunar landers. And he actually added a new Artemis mission next year that's supposed to test out one or both of them in orbit.

Regina Barber (9:04)

Okay.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (9:05)

So, you know, Isaac Min has said that there could be a moon landing as soon as 2028, assuming those tests of the lander go well. But you know, people I talk to think that that seems pretty optimistic.

Regina Barber (9:17)

Yeah, so I feel like that is optimistic. But what's NASA's plan after this, like landing on the moon?

Nell Greenfieldboyce (9:25)

So NASA has said that it doesn't want just flags and footprints, Right. It says that it wants to establish a near continuous human presence on the moon. Sort of like we have a presence in Antarctica. Right. So it's laid out this fairly ambitious plan that includes all these robotic Ms. Know, development of a power station and, and a lunar base where astronauts could live. And you know, Jared Isaacman has said recently that the goal is that there would be lunar landings of various kinds on a near monthly basis. The question is, is there going to be the money for that and the appetite for that? You know, I mean, they're saying they're going to do it cheaper than the days of the Apollo program because they're going to use commercial partners and stuff. But still, I mean, he's got a three phase plan, and phase one alone would cost, like, you know, $10 billion.

NASA Astronaut Reid Wiseman (10:15)

Wow.

Regina Barber (10:16)

Okay, so then how much will the whole thing cost?

Nell Greenfieldboyce (10:19)

Well, it's hard to come by those numbers, but it's the best I can tell. There was a projection from NASA's Inspector General Office a few years ago, and it said through 2025, it was projecting total costs for the program of like 93 billion. And that was just, like, so far. You know, I mean, every. Every launch of one of these big rockets like the one I'm looking at, it costs several billion dollars. Wow.

Regina Barber (10:46)

Okay. So, Nell, I think it's worth mentioning that, like, back in the 1960s, when, you know, humans did land on the moon, NASA kind of stopped after that. And they did so for many reasons, including that we had the civil rights movement being halted by assassinations. There was, like, more political upheaval from former President Nixon's corruption in Watergate, and there was a lot of disinterest in the government looking to the stars instead of helping people on Earth. So what is the public support now for Artemis?

Nell Greenfieldboyce (11:20)

It's interesting. You know, leading up to this, I would talk to people, and a lot of people just weren't even aware that NASA was working to putting people back on the moon, you know? Okay, and then you have the fact that the majority of people alive today have been born after 1972.

Regina Barber (11:36)

Yeah.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (11:37)

There was never a time in their life when they looked up at the moon and thought, well, there's people there right now. You know. But having said that, there was one recent poll that found that a majority of Americans did support the Artemis program. And I was talking to one historian who pointed out that, you know, that poll suggests there was, like, more support for this program now than there was for Apollo back in the 1960s. Wow. I mean, there was a lot of enthusiasm around certain moments of the Apollo program, but, you know, support just kind of petered out once the space race had been wonderful, you know, they didn't want to spend all this money on it. I mean, they were spending a lot more back then. It was like 4% of the national budget compared to, you know, less than 1%, a fraction of a percent for NASA today. I will say, though, there is a lot of bipartisan support in Congress and there's been support over multiple administrations for this moon program. So we'll see if we do, you

Regina Barber (12:30)

know, get bases on the Moon. What does that mean for, you know, humans living on other worlds? Not just the Moon, but other places? Like, what are we hoping to get from this.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (12:40)

Well, lots of people in the space community feel that Mars is the obvious destination. Right. And so NASA actually considers this its Moon to Mars program. But so far there's been mostly moon and not really much to Mars. Some people question whether the moon is really a stepping stone to Mars or whether we would kind of get bogged down in the moon. But others say, well, you know, if you want to live on another planet, it's different than long term habitation in space in a space station like the International Space Station. So, you know, on the moon you've got to contend with stuff like lunar dust and you've got to figure out, you know, all kinds of things related to getting stuff there. Yeah.

Regina Barber (13:20)

Like getting water from the ice and stuff like that, right?

Nell Greenfieldboyce (13:22)

Yeah. They see it as a proving ground. That's the idea. And there are other nations who also want to go to the moon. It's worth noting. Oh, wow. So NASA is doing this, this program in partnership with international partners like the Canadian Space Agency, but also the European Space Agency. And so, you know, there's a lot of consensus that this is like a way of establishing a foothold beyond Earth. And China wants to go to the moon too. And so, you know, some people are trying to drum up kind of another space race with China, similar to the space race the 1960s. But others are like, look, we already won. The space race will always be first on the moon.

Regina Barber (14:02)

Well, Nell, I really hope you get to see a launch today. Either way, though, whenever it happens, please tell us what comes next.

Nell Greenfieldboyce (14:10)

All right. Well, it should be a fun mission, so I'll keep you guys posted.

Regina Barber (14:19)

If you like this episode, please share it with a friend. It really helps out our show. This episode was produced by Arud Nair with help from Rachel Carlson. It was edited by Amina Khan and our showrunner, Rebecca Ramirez. Tyler Jones checked the facts. Kwesi Lee was the audio engineer. Special thanks to Carl Craft and Russell Lewis. I'm Regina Barber. Thank you for listening to Short Wave from NPR.

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