Why Suicide Prevention is 'Everyone's Business'

Summary

Podcast Summary: Short Wave – “Why Suicide Prevention is ‘Everyone’s Business’”

Air Date: December 23, 2025
Hosts: Emily Kwong (B), Ritu Chatterjee (C)
Guest: Jo Lambert (D), Ursula Whiteside (F)

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Overview

This deeply compassionate episode explores the emotional needs of both those in suicidal crisis and the caregivers supporting them. NPR Health Correspondent Ritu Chatterjee joins host Emily Kwong to discuss how survivors and caregivers, like Jo Lambert, are transforming their difficult experiences into powerful art—and why fostering emotional connection, rather than panic or overreaction, is key to suicide prevention. Through music, poetry, and shared lived experience, the episode reframes suicide prevention as a collective responsibility and provides practical advice for supporting loved ones through crisis.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Shifting Focus: Supporting the Caregiver (00:15–01:00)

• Ritu Chatterjee highlights that while previous conversations have focused on identifying and aiding those at risk, this episode digs into the emotional and practical needs of caregivers.
• Jo Lambert, a full-time unpaid carer from London, shares her personal journey:

  “Both my loved ones have survived and are thriving now.” (D, 01:13)

• Jo’s vow became her mission:

  “If I survive this, I will do something to change this so that people are not powerless watching a loved one suffer.” (D, 01:31)

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2. Art as Healing: “Hold the Hope” Poem, Film, and Song (01:38–03:26 & 06:16–07:45)

• Jo channels her caregiving experience into a poem, “Hold the Hope,” which is narrated, turned into a short film, and later into a group song. The creative project gives voice to both caregivers and those living with suicidality.

  • Excerpt from the poem:

    “Will you hold the hope for me? I feel I’ve lost my way. I need you to be strong for me and help me find the strength to stay.” (D, 02:13)

• The project involves students, NHS mental health providers, suicide survivors, and volunteers, emphasizing solidarity and compassion.

  “These are the voices of those who regularly return to active suicidality and are surviving it because of the compassion of others.” (D, 06:31)

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3. Emotional Safety and Centering the Person in Crisis (05:31–06:16, 06:42–07:45)

• Jo discusses the importance of detaching from the outcome and making it about what the person in crisis needs:

  “As soon as I detached myself from the outcome and made this about the person in the crisis fully, that was when I got the hang of it.” (D, 05:49)

• The songs and poems stress actions and verbs:

  “Observe my torment. Share my pain. Help me believe that things can change.” (C, 07:07)

• Emily and Jo use the powerful metaphor of “going into the hole” with the person in despair, not just shouting advice from above:

  “You have to have the courage to go down into the hole and sit with them...” (B, 08:09)

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4. Counterproductive Responses & The Importance of Validation (08:57–11:45)

• Both “under-response” (not taking suicidal thoughts seriously) and “over-response” (immediate, sometimes traumatic, emergency interventions) can harm those in crisis (C, 09:00–09:59).
• Psychologist Ursula Whiteside underlines the need for validation, not panic.

  “When you’re sitting with somebody who’s struggling with suicidal thoughts… do not panic… be in the room with them as much as possible.” (F, 10:43)

• Examples of compassionate validation:

  “You’re in so much pain right now. This feels excruciating. Of course your brain is trying to find ways to escape. I’m so glad you’re still talking with me. I love you, and I care about you, and I’m right here.” (F, 11:12)

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5. Challenging Stigma: Seeing the Strength in Survivors (11:45–12:18)

• The project aims to flip the social narrative:

  “Can you turn stigma on its head and see my staying power instead?” (D, 12:05)

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6. Impact and Reception in Healthcare Settings (12:18–13:16)

• The poem, film, and song are now being used in suicide prevention trainings in the UK’s NHS Trust.
• Jo’s colleague, Justine Trippier, describes increased openness and engagement in these sessions:

  “It feels like people are more open to share, to discuss and to really pull out what the difficulties are for them.” (D, 12:59)

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7. Hope and Survival: Broader Perspective (13:22–14:27)

• Ritu and Ursula highlight how focusing only on deaths masks the much larger number of people who survive suicidal crises:

  “For every person who dies by suicide, more than 300 feel suicidal or live with suicidality but don’t die.” (C, 13:58)

“With the right help, people can and do choose life despite having persistent thoughts of death.” (C, 14:24)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Caregiving:

  “I felt out of my depth, powerless, completely ill equipped to help my loved one.” — Jo Lambert (D, 05:11)

• On Validation:

  “I'm so glad you're still talking with me. I love you, and I care about you, and I'm right here.” — Ursula Whiteside (F, 11:12)

• On Stigma:

  “Can you turn stigma on its head and see my staying power instead?” — Jo Lambert (D, 12:05)

• On Survival:

  “There are so many times people survive, and what we only count is when they die.” — Ursula Whiteside (F, 13:45)

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Important Resources & Timestamps

• 00:15–01:00 – Framing the conversation: Caregivers in suicide prevention
• 01:04–02:22 – Jo Lambert’s story and “Hold the Hope”
• 04:28–06:16 – Emily’s personal experience as a caregiver and lessons learned
• 09:00–10:59 – Under and over-responses; calling 988 instead of 911
• 11:12–11:39 – Examples of validating language for caregivers
• 12:18–13:16 – Using art in NHS suicide prevention training

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Tone and Language

The episode balances warmth, empathy, and honest vulnerability. The hosts and guests use accessible, compassionate language, often sharing personal anecdotes and insights paired with practical advice. Artistic and musical elements add emotional resonance to the science-based discussion.

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Key Takeaways

• Suicide prevention is everyone’s responsibility—not just professionals.
• Compassion, presence, and non-judgmental validation are essential when supporting someone in crisis.
• Artistic and creative expressions can help process experiences and reduce stigma.
• Most people living with suicidal thoughts do not die by suicide—with communities of support, survival and thriving are possible.
• If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988, the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.

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For further resources and to listen to “Hold the Hope,” check the episode’s show notes.

Transcript

[A]

This Message comes from DonorsChoose. Donors choose Connects public school teachers with donors to fund classroom needs, including school supplies like books and art supplies. Donate [e-mail] local.

[B]

You're listening to Short Wave from NPR. Hey, Short Wavers. Emily Kwong here. And today we are talking about how to help someone you love who is in a suicidal crisis with the NPR health correspondent who covers mental health, Ritu Chatterjee. Hey, Ritu.

[C]

Hi, Emily.

[B]

Last time we talked about this, we focused on how to help those who are at risk. You offered a lot of practical advice, how to develop a safety plan, how to identify the warning signs. It was a really rich, thorough conversation we had.

[C]

That's right. And today we're adding yet another layer to that topic.

[B]

I'm ready.

[C]

And that is what is needed emotionally from someone who is caring for a person in suicidal crisis.

[B]

So today we're focusing on the caregivers.

[C]

That's right, caregivers like Jo Lambert in London.

[D]

So I've been an unpaid, full time, unpaid carer for loved ones in a suicidal crisis continuously for the last eight years. And actually both my loved ones have survived and are thriving now.

[C]

Eight years ago, Jo first learned that someone she loves was feeling suicidal. And as she started to learn how to care for them, she made a prom to the universe.

[D]

If I survive this, I will do something to change this so that people are not powerless watching a loved one suffer like this.

[C]

So a couple of years ago, Jo used her experiences to write a poem. It's about what someone in suicidal crisis needs to get through that crisis safely. And it's a message she wished everyone could hear in order to support a loved one who's struggling.

[B]

Almost like what she wishes every caregiver knew.

[C]

Exactly. Exactly. Actually, almost every person, because, you know, everyone has someone who may be struggling whether it's a suicidal crisis or not. And Jo called this poem hold the Hope.

[D]

Will you hold the hope for me? I feel I've lost my way. I need you to be strong for me and help me find the strength to stay.

[C]

Around the same time, she began working with a group of people who had also been touched by suicide through a loved one, or they themselves lived with suicidality. And the group wanted to use their collective experiences to make a short educational film about preventing suicide. The film, also titled hold the Hope, uses this poem as narration. And then this year, Jo took it to the next level by turning that poem into a song.

[B]

Today on the show, how suicide survivors and caregivers are turning their experiences into art and reimagining what suicide prevention work sounds like. You're listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr.

[E]

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[B]

Okay Ritu My mom is a suicide attempt survivor. We're so fortunate she's with us now. I love her so much, and when I heard this piece it made me wish I had a song like this in my life. When I was going through this at 21, the experience of almost losing her because it was such an isolating time and I just didn't know what to say to my mom and I didn't.

[D]

Know how to help.

[C]

Yeah, Emily, I totally understand that. And it's what I've heard from so many people who've cared for a loved one who's suicidal. Most people in your situation feel like that, and it's how Joe Lambert felt when she first found out that one of her loved ones was suicidal.

[D]

I felt out of my depth, powerless, completely ill equipped to help my loved one.

[C]

And she says she felt terrified about losing her loved one.

[D]

I was so panicked by the grief I might experience if my loved one died that it prevented me from giving my loved one what they needed.

[C]

But you know, eventually, by trial and error, Jo did figure out how best to care for her loved one during suicidal crises. And a big lesson for her was that she had to put her own feelings aside during these moments and focus on the person in front of her.

[D]

As soon as I detached myself from the outcome and made this about the person in the crisis fully, that was when I got the hang of it. Because then it's not about my fear or what might happen. It's about what they need right now. Yeah.

[B]

It requires a lot of focus, but you have to center the person in despair. And it sounds like that philosophy was really carried over into how Jo approached this film project. Can you say more about that?

[C]

Oh, for sure. And you hear it in the poem, right? And the song, which was sung by a group of volunteers, mostly students, mental health care providers at UK's National Health Service Mental Health Trust, and some who are suicide survivors.

[D]

This is the voices of those who regularly return to active suicidality and are surviving it because of the compassion of others.

[C]

Can you be strong enough? Stay by my side for long enough? Will you keep trying till you've done enough? So I abandon what I've planned Hold this space.

[B]

What would you say are the most important lessons the song has to teach?

[C]

So line after line, the song stresses the importance of emotional safety for the person in crisis. Keep safe this place for me hold my gaze, don't look away Meet my hurt head on don't leap back in alarm Stay focused, steady, calm and this message is conveyed by vision. Various voices in the spoken word section of the song. I need you to hold on for me Embrace my human frailty Observe my torment Share my pain Help me believe that things can change.

[B]

I love how these are all active verbs, you know, observe, share, help me. Because it is an active choice to be there for someone going through this. Like an image that really helped me in supporting my mom. It was a screenshot in my phone was if a person is sitting at the bottom of a hole, you can't just shout, down into the hole.

[D]

We'll climb out of the hole.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

In fact, what you have to do is have the courage to go down into the hole and sit with them, to accompany them in that moment. And that's when change can really happen.

[C]

Wow, that's a beautiful image, Emily. And yeah, you're right. Now I will note that the so acknowledges that the most important part for the person in crisis is knowing that their loved one tried their best.

[B]

What's compelling about this music to me is it embodies how I wish my mom was treated before and after her attempt. But so often this compassion is not shown to people who have suicidal thoughts.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

And people can respond in ways that are very counterproductive.

[C]

Yes. And you know, Jo told me, for example, that sometimes the thoughts that her loved ones were having about dying weren't taken seriously even by well meaning healthcare providers.

[D]

You can imagine the invalidation of knowing this is going to happen, shouting for help not being taken seriously.

[C]

Now, that's an example of an under response. Right. Now, what can also happen is an exaggerated response when someone discloses that they're suicidal, which is also harmful. So here's psychologist Ursula Whiteside, who runs a suicide prevention nonprofit called Now Matters now in Washington state.

[F]

There's an over response, and that person is then directed to the emergency room, where they may stay for, you know, 12, 24, three days while they're being assessed and ultimately sent home. And in both situations, people learn. Why would I ever share that again? That was so unhelpful.

[B]

Yeah, we talked about this a few years ago that most people naturally want to call 911 in an emergency situation. But that is not always the best approach when someone is in a suicidal crisis.

[C]

Absolutely. Because ers, you know, weren't set up to address mental health crises. Intensely busy, chaotic places that just make a person already in despair more stressed out. So if you're a caregiver and, you know, you don't know what to say or do when a loved one discloses that they're feeling suicidal. A better number to call is 988, the Suicide Prevention Lifeline, because their trained counselors can help coach you as to how to respond to your loved one. And they will probably echo what Ursula says we give.

[F]

The advice, first and foremost, when you're sitting with somebody who's struggling with suicidal thoughts is to. To not panic, like, at a bare minimum, and then secondarily to be present with that person. Like, to be in. In the room with them as much as possible, to be like a real human with them.

[C]

Now, Ursula says she also tells people to validate the feelings of the person in crisis because they want to feel heard and understood.

[B]

What does this kind of validation sound like?

[C]

I'll let Ursula give some examples.

[F]

When they say the horrible things about how they want to die instead of, you know, disagreeing with them, or it's reflecting back, like, you're in so much pain right now. This feels excruciating. Of course, your brain is trying to find ways to escape. I'm so glad you're still talking with me. I'm so glad you're here. I know you're in pain right now, and I love you and I care about you, and I'm right here.

[B]

These are beautiful things, and they are so validating of that person's reality right now.

[C]

The other part of this has to do with the stigma around suicide, which, according to Jo, stems from the fact that people feeling suicidal are often looked upon as Weak. But her song calls for others to see the strength in someone feeling suicidal by understanding what they've been through.

[D]

And that's the absolute kernel of this project, which is the upending of the stigma. Can you turn stigma on its head and see my staying power instead?

[B]

How is this song being received by people in her field?

[C]

So the song is the latest iteration of what she's trying to do. But the film and the poem that came before are being used by the UK's National Health Service Mental Health Trust in southwest London in their suicide prevention and awareness trainings. And by the way, Jo herself works for the UK's National Health Service Mental Health Trust, coordinating these kinds of trainings. And I spoke with her boss, Justine Trippier, who's a psychiatric nurse, and she says using the film has made the sessions more engaging.

[D]

If feels like people are more open to share, to discuss and to really pull out what the difficulties are for them.

[C]

So sometimes this is a person who has a loved one who's suicidal that they're trying to support, and at other times it may be a new healthcare.

[F]

Worker and they had the first suicide and how they emotionally can manage that.

[C]

Their goal ultimately is to use the song to help make suicide prevention everyone's business. And research shows, by the way, that when we share experiences of those who live with suicidality, it increases the likelihood that others in crisis will seek help, that they too will have a sense of hope. Here's Ursula again.

[F]

When I was listening to this, I was. I kept coming back to the fact that there are so many times that people survive and what we only count is when they die.

[C]

And you know, Emily, as data shows that for every person who dies by suicide, more than 300 feel suicidal or live with suicidality but don't die. And Ursula says Joe's song is a much needed reminder that with the right help, people can and do choose life despite having persistent thoughts of death.

[B]

Ritu Chatterjee, thank you so truly so much for bringing this song, this message, this care onto short wave.

[C]

Always a pleasure, Emily.

[B]

If you would like to listen to the full song or read the lyrics, check out the link in our episode notes. Give that conversation with Ritu and I from 2021 a listen. We've linked it too.

[C]

And if you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text the suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988. Will you acknowledge what it takes to keep on living? When you feel you're going to break? Can you turn stigma.

[F]

And see my stay in power instead?

[B]

This episode was Produced by Burleigh McCoy, it was edited by Rebecca Ramirez and fact checked by Tyler Jones. Khwesi Lee was the audio engineer. I'm Emily Kwong. Thank you for listening to Shortwave from npr.

[A]

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