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Emily Kwong
You're listening to Short Wave from npr. Hi, shortwavers. Emily. The Trump administration has made many, many cuts to the federal government, and they're not done yet. The White House's Office of Management and budget proposed a 24% cut to NASA funding in fiscal year 2026. My co host, Regina Barber, has been looking into what's going on at NASA. Hey, Gina.
Regina Barber
Hey, Em. Okay, so first we should say that these cuts are somewhat in line with the cuts to science and industry at other agencies like fema, hhs, et cetera. And we've covered all that in past episodes of short wave.
John Logsdon
NASA's not being singled out for cuts. It's part of the overall Trump administration movement to reduce this federal budget.
Regina Barber
That's John Logsdon. He's a policy analyst and a former member of the NASA Advisory Council. With that said, when I first heard about this proposed budget, I really wanted to know which programs might get cut, what research might be impacted.
Emily Kwong
Yeah.
Regina Barber
So in my hunt for answers, I reached out to Dara Norman. She's an astronomer and the President of the American Astronomical Society.
Dara Norman
I think this is unprecedented in the amount of cutting that NASA has ever seen.
Emily Kwong
Oh, wow.
Regina Barber
Yeah. I also spoke with the Assistant Director of Science Policy and Government Relations at the American Geophysical Union, and her name is Brittany Webster.
Brittany Webster
We're really kind of going back to the start of NASA with some of these levels. Some of these cuts, I think, predate the dawn of the space age.
Emily Kwong
Okay, what are these cuts targeting?
Regina Barber
Yeah, they're primarily aimed at NASA's fundamental science research. The science divisions that we're talking about are planetary science, astrophysics, heliophysics, that's studying the sun. They're all getting cut by about 50%.
Jack Corelli
Wow.
Regina Barber
But it's not all cuts. There's one division that will be getting more money, not less.
Emily Kwong
What's that?
Regina Barber
That's human spaceflight. And that's going to refocus on, quote, beating China back to the moon and on putting the first human on Mars.
Emily Kwong
Okay. But the budget hasn't passed yet, right?
Regina Barber
Yeah. Things appear to be in the works, though. A couple weeks ago, the White House sent out a bunch of memos basically asking NASA leaders to get ready to shut down specific programs. And I talked to Jack Corelli about it. He's an expert in space policy and advocacy and he works at the Planetary Society.
Dara Norman
So the thing that leaked is this massive document and supplemental documents, letters to what are called principal investigators, which are the people in charge of missions saying by middle of next week, you need to have written a termination plan.
Regina Barber
And to be clear, these termination plans aren't finalized. Like, none of the programs have been shuttered yet. But people are like reading the writing on the wall and policy experts like Jack are saying, hey, all these NASA programs are on the chopping block. Layoffs and cuts. They're coming.
Emily Kwong
So NASA's preparing for these cuts before they actually happen. They may not happen. What is the long term implication of this, Gina, To NASA and to space science?
Regina Barber
Yeah. So experts are concerned that the US Is going to lose its dominance in scientific research, that if these scientists start to leave after seeing these proposed cuts, they might not come back.
Brittany Webster
I think the brain drain is really real. We've seen other countries literally put out calls putting up money for American scientists to apply for if they want to move to their country and continue their research.
Dara Norman
There's folks really are looking to find positions in Europe and in Canada and other places in order to actually stay in the field. And so we are really, really shooting ourselves in the foot as far as being leaders in this kind of science.
Emily Kwong
Today on the show, NASA budget cuts.
Regina Barber
What they mean for future missions and existing ones. Some that Americans have already poured millions into. You're listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr.
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Emily Kwong
Gina. So before the proposed budget cuts were put out there, what was NASA's budget?
Regina Barber
Yeah, so the most recent budget was a little under $25 billion. That's zero point. 3% of national spe. One way to think about it is if somebody were to, like, pay the government $100 in taxes, roughly 37 cents of that would be going to NASA. Now, the Trump administration wants the amount to decrease to more like $0.27. And that lower amount, like I said earlier, is mostly going to human missions, which is in line with what President Trump has been promising. He talked about this during his second inaugural address. And we will pursue our Manifest Destiny into the stars.
Dara Norman
Launching American astronauts to plant the Stars.
Regina Barber
And Stripes on the planet Mars.
Emily Kwong
Why do you think human missions are being left kind of financially intact?
Regina Barber
Yeah, I asked Jack that same question. Like, why cut all these programs, but, like, really focus on human space flight?
Dara Norman
It's the sexy topic, right? I mean, it harkens back to that, like, pioneer spirit. The President invoked Manifest Destiny in his inauguration speech. These really old American ideals, Right? But the human stuff is you kind of can't have one without the other.
Regina Barber
Because, Emily, a lot of basic science and research needs to be investigated so that, like, later humans can get into space. Here's Dara again. She's the astronomer and the president of the American Astronomical Society.
Dara Norman
In order to support human spaceflight, there are other technologies and areas and other science that you need to do to make sure that you understand the worlds that you're going to.
Brittany Webster
Just think about what it takes for you to live on Earth. You need a food source, you need water, you're going to need an energy source, you're going to need a habitat, potentially, you're going to need medical.
Emily Kwong
So she's saying it takes a lot of science to get to Mars.
Regina Barber
Yeah, that was Brittany from the American Geophysical Union. Again, she reminded me that the US has already spent money on sending robots to Mars to get more of this information.
Emily Kwong
Oh, right. There's been, like, a whole series of Martian rovers with cool names. You could kind of follow what they were doing on Mars.
Regina Barber
One had a very popular Twitter account. But, yeah, on the surface of Mars right now, there's actually little pieces of Martian soil that one of the rovers has drilled. And those pieces of Martian soil are waiting to be collected. Those soil samples, on top of being able to tell scientists if there ever was life on Mars, like biosignatures, these samples could inform future human missions about potential hazards from, like, the Martian environment. And Brittany says that with these proposed cuts, scientists may never be able to analyze those samples. Like, this mission might get canceled.
Brittany Webster
I think the whole Mars infrastructure is really in question with the cuts. There's a lot of question marks in the budget regarding Mars and kind of the human to mars pipeline, if you will. I think the future is really unclear.
Regina Barber
Brittany says this new focus on human missions really doesn't take into account how much robotic missions have already done. They gather so much science efficiently, with fewer resources and without putting humans in harm's way. But other policy experts, like John, say that the Martian sample mission was facing problems long before these cuts were even proposed.
John Logsdon
Mars sample return was on life support well before Mr. Trump was elected. It's a mission, or at least an architecture of a mission that has all kinds of problems associated with it. So if something has to go, maybe that's it.
Regina Barber
Hmm.
Emily Kwong
What other programs have already started, but maybe on the chopping block.
Regina Barber
Yeah. There's a range, there's small ones that relate to, like, space weather, and then there's big ones focused on studying, like our nearest neighbor, Venus. Some climate satellites will be scrapped. Even the administration's, like, lunar ambitions would be scaled back significantly. So Artemis 3, which is the first US lunar mission to put, like, humans back on the moon since Apollo, under this new budget, that would be the final funded mission in that Artemis series, A plan to build the first space station orbiting the moon that would be canceled under these cuts.
Emily Kwong
Okay. All this is to save money, presumably. Does it?
Regina Barber
Yeah. So it does in the short term. But Brittany and Jack say, I don't.
Brittany Webster
Think we're being a good steward of taxpayer dollars if there are missions that we've already gone through the trouble of launching their operational in space. You know, how much money are we really saving by cutting off these missions when we're actually still getting science out of them?
Emily Kwong
Right. So the concern here is that all these missions and projects that have already been funded by taxpayer dollars stop.
Regina Barber
Yeah. And another really big project that's in jeopardy is the Nancy Grace Roman space telescope.
Emily Kwong
That's a really significant project. I mean, that telescope has been under construction for like, a decade, and it was on its way to being capable of finding planets beyond our solar system.
Regina Barber
Yeah. And hopefully figure out more about dark matter, dark energy, you know, what's making our universe accelerate and expand. This telescope would also maybe democratize a lot of space research by making huge, huge amounts of data available to everyone all at once. I mean, unlike previous space telescopes. Right.
Emily Kwong
Like James Webb or Hubble. But you're saying that with these cuts, Nancy Roman, that project might just stop.
Regina Barber
Yeah, yeah. Some astronomers are worried that's gonna happen. Dara, that's the president of the society we talked about, she's also an active astronomer, and she uses these observatories for her research.
Dara Norman
That mission in particular was really on budget and on track to be launched, I think, in two years. And funding has already been spent on it. And right now, the cuts are so steep that, you know, it'll be hard to finish that mission in a timely way.
Emily Kwong
Right. It takes humans to ultimately make missions as cool as Nancy Roman or letting on Mars or the Moon. Happens. How has the Trump administration justified these cuts?
Regina Barber
Yeah, so the White House's omb, that's the Office of Management and Budget, they put out a statement saying that these cuts are about streamlining NASA's workforce. And elsewhere, they've implied that some of these projects can be outsourced to private companies, and NASA's job should be to focus on human spaceflight. And Emily, like I was telling you earlier, a lot of scientists feel that these are unprecedented cuts, but John sees things a little differently.
John Logsdon
One thing to say is that it is not written in stone anywhere that the United States should have a vigorous space science program. It's a product of history. This is an opportunity. Ask a question. What priority should space science have compared to all the other demands on the federal budget? And the answer may not be as much as it has had for the past 40 years.
Regina Barber
So I reached out to NASA and they replied that they're not commenting on any of the proposed budget questions. But in the past month or so, there has been movement elsewhere. Every living former head of NASA's Science Mission Directorate signed a letter urging Congress to reject these substantial cuts to NASA's science budget. The Senate Appropriations Committee met to discuss funding NASA at $24.9 billion, among other topics. And this would be just above the current enacted budget. And last week, the House put forward their like own version of this, and that would keep NASA's budget the same.
Emily Kwong
Okay.
Regina Barber
But again, we need to keep in mind that scientists and policy experts told me that even though these new budgets, you know, sound great, they would probably still reallocate money away from space science and towards human spaceflight. Oh, okay.
Emily Kwong
So these cuts may not hold? They may not happen.
Regina Barber
No. So the 2026 budget hasn't been finalized. Congress spends most of the summer putting together the budget plans and then vote on it. So the earliest we'll see this vote is September. But most it won't happen until, like, the end of the year.
Emily Kwong
Okay. So things are very much still in flux.
Regina Barber
Yeah.
Emily Kwong
It's no small thing to weed through budget documents. So, Gina, thank you for bringing this to us.
Regina Barber
Thank you Em.
Emily Kwong
Please like follow or subscribe to Short Wave now. You will get a fun and fresh science episode in your feed four times a week. And shortwavers, we have an extra special gift for you for our summer series Sea Camp. Every Monday you get new Sea Camp episodes, but you can also get in your inbox every week a limited edition newsletter with comics, fun puzzles. Sign up@npr.org SECAMP thanks so much.
Regina Barber
Today's episode was produced by Hannah Chin and it was edited by a showrunner, Rebecca Ramirez. Tyler Jones checked the facts, Kwesi Lee.
Emily Kwong
Was the audio engineer, Beth Donovan is our Senior director and Colin Campbell is our senior Vice President of Podcasting Strategy. I'm Emily Kwong.
Regina Barber
And I'm Regina Barber. Thank you for listening to shortwave from NPR.
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Jack Corelli
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Short Wave, NPR | Released July 22, 2025
In this episode of Short Wave, hosts Emily Kwong and Regina Barber delve into the potential repercussions of proposed federal budget cuts on NASA and the broader landscape of space science. The discussion unpacks how a significant reduction in funding could reshape the future of scientific research, mission planning, and the United States' standing in the global space arena.
The episode opens with Emily Kwong highlighting a staggering 24% cut proposed by the Trump administration to NASA's budget for fiscal year 2026. These proposed reductions are part of a broader initiative to decrease federal spending across various departments.
Emily Kwong [00:18]:
“The Trump administration has made many, many cuts to the federal government, and they're not done yet. The White House's Office of Management and budget proposed a 24% cut to NASA funding in fiscal year 2026.”
Regina Barber explains that the proposed cuts predominantly target NASA’s fundamental science research, including key areas such as planetary science, astrophysics, and heliophysics. These divisions are facing reductions of approximately 50%, severely impacting ongoing and future research projects.
Regina Barber [01:53]:
“They're primarily aimed at NASA's fundamental science research. The science divisions that we're talking about are planetary science, astrophysics, heliophysics, that's studying the sun. They're all getting cut by about 50%.”
Despite widespread cuts, the budget allocation for human spaceflight is set to increase. This funding is intended to bolster endeavors such as returning humans to the Moon and sending the first humans to Mars, aligning with President Trump's vision of a renewed American presence in space.
Regina Barber [02:12]:
“That's human spaceflight. And that's going to refocus on, quote, beating China back to the moon and on putting the first human on Mars.”
Dara Norman [06:10]:
“In order to support human spaceflight, there are other technologies and areas and other science that you need to do to make sure that you understand the worlds that you're going to.”
The proposed cuts have sparked significant concern among scientists and policymakers. Experts fear a brain drain, where talented researchers may seek opportunities abroad due to diminished funding and support in the United States.
Brittany Webster [03:31]:
“I think the brain drain is really real. We've seen other countries literally put out calls putting up money for American scientists to apply for if they want to move to their country and continue their research.”
John Logsdon [01:08]:
“NASA's not being singled out for cuts. It's part of the overall Trump administration movement to reduce this federal budget.”
Dara Norman [03:44]:
“There's folks really are looking to find positions in Europe and in Canada and other places in order to actually stay in the field. And so we are really, really shooting ourselves in the foot as far as being leaders in this kind of science.”
Several high-profile NASA projects are at risk of being canceled or scaled back due to the budget cuts:
Mars Sample Return Mission: Intended to collect and analyze Martian soil samples, this mission could be halted, hindering our understanding of Mars and jeopardizing future human exploration.
Brittany Webster [07:28]:
“I think the whole Mars infrastructure is really in question with the cuts. There's a lot of question marks in the budget regarding Mars and kind of the human to mars pipeline, if you will. I think the future is really unclear.”
Artemis Program: Specifically, Artemis 3, planned to return humans to the Moon, would be the final mission funded under the new budget, threatening the continuity of lunar exploration efforts.
Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope: A decade-long project poised to revolutionize our understanding of the universe, from dark matter to exoplanet discovery, is also under threat.
Dara Norman [10:16]:
“That mission in particular was really on budget and on track to be launched, I think, in two years. And funding has already been spent on it. And right now, the cuts are so steep that, you know, it'll be hard to finish that mission in a timely way.”
The Trump administration justifies the budget cuts as a means to streamline NASA's workforce and shift the focus towards human spaceflight. There are also suggestions that certain projects might be outsourced to private companies, emphasizing efficiency and reducing governmental expenditure.
Regina Barber [11:36]:
“The White House's omb, that's the Office of Management and Budget, they put out a statement saying that these cuts are about streamlining NASA's workforce. And elsewhere, they've implied that some of these projects can be outsourced to private companies, and NASA's job should be to focus on human spaceflight.”
The scientific community has actively protested against these cuts. A collective of former NASA Science Mission Directorate leaders has urged Congress to reject the proposed reductions. While the Senate Appropriations Committee has tentatively discussed funding NASA at $24.9 billion, slightly above the current budget, the House has proposed maintaining the existing budget levels.
Regina Barber [12:26]:
“So the Senate Appropriations Committee met to discuss funding NASA at $24.9 billion, among other topics. And this would be just above the current enacted budget. And last week, the House put forward their like own version of this, and that would keep NASA's budget the same.”
However, experts caution that even with these legislative movements, reallocation favoring human spaceflight over scientific research remains a possibility.
John Logsdon [11:59]:
“One thing to say is that it is not written in stone anywhere that the United States should have a vigorous space science program. It's a product of history. This is an opportunity. Ask a question. What priority should space science have compared to all the other demands on the federal budget? And the answer may not be as much as it has had for the past 40 years.”
Emily Kwong [13:14]:
“So the 2026 budget hasn't been finalized. Congress spends most of the summer putting together the budget plans and then vote on it. So the earliest we'll see this vote is September. But most it won't happen until, like, the end of the year.”
As the episode wraps up, the uncertainty surrounding the federal budget's finalization leaves the future of NASA's scientific missions in limbo. The potential for significant budget cuts threatens to undermine years of planning, research, and international collaboration, posing a critical juncture for the United States' role in space exploration and scientific discovery.
Regina Barber [13:31]:
“Yeah. So the 2026 budget hasn't been finalized. Congress spends most of the summer putting together the budget plans and then vote on it. So the earliest we'll see this vote is September. But most it won't happen until, like, the end of the year.”
Emily Kwong [13:38]:
“Please like follow or subscribe to Short Wave now. You will get a fun and fresh science episode in your feed four times a week.”
This episode underscores the delicate balance between political priorities and scientific advancement, highlighting the profound implications that federal budgeting decisions can have on the trajectory of space science and exploration.