Will Trump Unleash Energy Dominance Or Damage?

Summary

Short Wave Podcast Summary: "Will Trump Unleash Energy Dominance Or Damage?"

Release Date: May 20, 2025
Host: Emily Kwong
Co-Hosts: Alejandra Barunda & Lauren Sommer
Podcast: Short Wave by NPR

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Introduction

In the May 20, 2025 episode of NPR's Short Wave, hosts Emily Kwong and Regina Barber delve into the profound changes President Donald Trump has implemented regarding federal agencies focused on climate and environmental issues. The episode, titled "Will Trump Unleash Energy Dominance Or Damage?", explores the implications of Trump's executive orders aimed at deregulating fossil fuels, promoting coal projects, and dismantling policies supporting renewable energy.

Trump’s Executive Orders and Administration’s Stance

The episode begins with Emily Kwong outlining Trump’s sweeping executive orders issued on April 8th, which include:

• Lifting regulations on fossil fuels
• Allowing new coal projects on federal land
• Ending policies supporting renewable energy

Alejandra Barunda highlights the administration's rhetoric, stating, “Every day under the Trump administration, we will continue to lower costs for American families, create jobs for American workers, and unlock unlimited amounts of affordable American energy, including beautiful clean coal” (00:44).

Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Overhaul

Deregulation and Budget Cuts

The focus shifts to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), historically dedicated to safeguarding the environment and public health through actions like cleaning up hazardous wastes and curbing pollution. Under the Trump administration, the EPA has experienced significant budget reductions and policy shifts. Alejandra Barunda explains, “The EPA announced recently that it actually wants to do two things at once now: protect health and revitalize the American economy” (03:47).

EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin has spearheaded a deregulation campaign aimed at “unleashing American energy” by easing business burdens, which Trump claims will make energy more affordable for Americans. Barunda notes, “Loosening regulations will ease the burden on businesses, which will eventually make it cheaper for Americans to do things like buy new cars or heat their homes” (04:08).

Impact on Public Health and Employment

Critics express concern over the potential health impacts of weakened environmental protections. Barunda emphasizes, “The science is super clear that loosening the rules would end up causing more people to get sick or even die early” (04:55). Additionally, discussions reveal plans to reduce the EPA’s workforce to Reagan-era levels, targeting the Office of Research and Development (ORD). This branch is crucial for scientific assessments that inform regulations, and its dismantling raises questions about the future of environmental research.

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Reductions

Operational Cuts and Consequences

Lauren Sommer provides an overview of NOAA's indispensable role in weather forecasting, disaster preparedness, and environmental research. Historically, NOAA has been pivotal in activities ranging from tracking hurricanes to managing fisheries. However, the Trump administration's agenda includes substantial budget cuts and staffing reductions:

• Hundreds of NOAA employees have been fired, affecting weather forecasting accuracy and delaying fishing season openings (07:09).
• A proposed 25% budget reduction for 2026 would severely undermine NOAA’s climate research and satellite programs (07:40).

Craig McLean, former head of NOAA’s research wing, warns that such cuts would regress scientific capabilities to levels seen in the 1950s, jeopardizing advancements in weather and climate forecasting.

Implications for Weather Forecasting

Despite the budget proposal maintaining funding for the National Weather Service, the loss of experienced scientists has already led to less accurate weather forecasts. Sommer states, “They've been hit hard already because of those people that have been fired. And some scientists think they're already seeing weather forecasts get less accurate” (08:53).

Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Funding Cuts

Cancellation of Preventative Grants

FEMA plays a critical role in disaster preparedness and response. The Trump administration has canceled over $4.5 billion in approved grants under programs like Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities (BRIC), which funds projects to mitigate disaster impacts before they occur. An example discussed is the village of Depew, Illinois, where a crucial grant to relocate a sewage treatment plant was abruptly canceled:

• Daniel Hoffart, Village President of Depew, expressed frustration: “It was probably within a month or two of being okay. So that's really harsh” (11:59).

Reduced Disaster Response Capacity

FEMA’s capacity to respond to disasters is further threatened by workforce reductions. With over 200 staff members lost and potential further cuts, the agency's ability to manage disaster responses could be critically impaired. Sommer highlights the risk, stating, “Trump has said he maybe wants FEMA to go away completely, and that could affect how many people will be available when those hurricanes and wildfires hit this summer” (13:04).

Impact on Everyday Americans

Economic and Environmental Trade-offs

The episode critically examines whether the Trump administration’s policies will genuinely benefit average Americans. Alejandra Barunda posits, “I think we're all just kind of waiting to see” (14:17), indicating uncertainty about the long-term effects of deregulation.

Lauren Sommer adds, “We know climate disasters are getting worse. They're going to continue to get worse if we're not studying it, if we're not preparing for it. Those are costs that people will face in some way” (14:17), emphasizing that reduced federal support may shift financial burdens to state and local communities.

Case Studies and Real-World Effects

Real-world examples, such as the potential flooding in Depew due to an underfunded sewage treatment plant, illustrate the tangible consequences of these policy shifts. The lack of preventative funding not only threatens public health but also imposes significant financial strains on small communities unable to address infrastructure vulnerabilities independently.

Conclusion

The episode of Short Wave effectively highlights the dichotomy between the Trump administration’s goals of economic revitalization and the potential environmental and public health repercussions of its policies. While proponents argue for reduced regulations as a means to lower costs and stimulate job growth, critics warn of the long-term damages to both the environment and the well-being of everyday Americans. As budget cuts and policy shifts continue to unfold, the true impact on American communities remains to be fully realized.

Notable Quotes:

• Alejandra Barunda: “Every day under the Trump administration, we will continue to lower costs for American families, create jobs for American workers, and unlock unlimited amounts of affordable American energy, including beautiful clean coal.” (00:44)
• Alejandra Barunda: “The science is super clear that loosening the rules would end up causing more people to get sick or even die early.” (04:55)
• Lauren Sommer: “They're going to continue to get worse if we're not studying it, if we're not preparing for it. Those are costs that people will face in some way.” (14:17)

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the podcast.

Transcript

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[Emily Kwong]

You're listening to Short Wave from NPR. Since he took office, President Trump has made sweeping changes to federal agencies that work on climate change. On April 8th of this year, he issued several new executive orders lifting regulations on fossil fuels, allowing new coal projects on federal land, and ending what he calls, quote, woke policies that support renewable energy.

[Alejandra Barunda]

Every day under the Trump administration, we will continue to lower costs for American.

[Lauren Sommer]

Families, create jobs for American workers, and.

[Alejandra Barunda]

Very importantly, unlock unlimited amounts of affordable.

[Lauren Sommer]

American energy, including beautiful clean coal.

[Emily Kwong]

He has slashed the budgets and shifted the directives of key government agencies, especially when it comes to funding research, regulating pollution and responding to climate related disasters. And again, Trump says this is all in service of everyday Americans. But what will be the impact of Trump's actions on those everyday Americans in the future? For answers, we brought in NPR climate reporters Alejandra Barunda and Lauren Sommer. What do you both think?

[Alejandra Barunda]

Yeah, so if you're someone who lives in a coastal community that's prone to hurricanes, or honestly, if you just want to check the weather forecast, then the changes at noaa, the national oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, could affect you.

[Lauren Sommer]

Or maybe you're in one of the thousands of communities that are trying to prepare for disasters, you know, like hurricanes or wildfires, and you applied for federal funding. That's completely changing too.

[Emily Kwong]

So today we're going to recap these budget cuts and policy changes, focusing on three government agencies that deal with climate and the environment, the epa, NOAA and fema, with an eye towards their real world impacts on the Americans that President Trump says he wants to support. I'm Emily Kwong and you're listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from N.

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[Emily Kwong]

All right, Alejandra, we're going to start with the epa, the Environmental Protection Agency. Now, historically, this agency has done a lot. It's been focused on protecting the environment and public health. It has cleaned up hazardous wastes, banned certain pesticides, curbed air and water pollution. It does seem, though, like those types of actions are no longer the primary goal.

[Alejandra Barunda]

Yeah, well, so the EPA announced recently that it actually wants to do two things at once now. Protect health. Yes. And also, quote, unquote, revitalize the American economy. Its new administrator is named Lee Zeldin, and he rolled out a vision that's really focused on deregulation, which is in line with the Trump administration's goals more broadly.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah, deregulation, it often looks like, loosening federal restrictions so businesses can operate more freely.

[Alejandra Barunda]

Yeah, exactly. And Zeldin has said explicitly that the agency's goal now is to help fulfill Trump's efforts to, quote, unquote, unleash American energy. And he says loosening regulations will ease the burden on businesses, which will eventually make it cheaper for Americans to do things like buy new cars or heat their homes.

[Emily Kwong]

Okay, yeah.

[Alejandra Barunda]

But critics worry that there will be real impacts on people's health from rolling back or weakening regulations that protect air and water. Take the Clean Air act, for example. After its passage. And in the past couple of decades, the concentration of major air pollutants in the air has dropped by about 80%. And EPA's own analyses show that the cleaner air prevents about two and a half million asthma attacks every year.

[Emily Kwong]

Wow.

[Alejandra Barunda]

The science is super clear that loosening the rules would end up causing more people to get sick or even die early.

[Emily Kwong]

Are there any other changes coming down the pike that might affect the EPA's work?

[Alejandra Barunda]

Totally. So the big conversation right now is about employment cuts coming to epa. In early May, Zeldin said the plan is to reduce the agency to Reagan era levels of employment, which would mean cutting thousands of employees. And right now, it seems like a lot of those cuts would target an EPA branch called the Office of Research and Development or. Ord it's where most of the science happens. Like when a state asks the EPA to figure out if a chemical is unsafe, or they want to do those assessments that go into the air pollution rules that get updated every few years, but they're basically on the chopping block now.

[Emily Kwong]

If they're on the chopping block, what would that mean about the science they've done? Like, would the work just go away and whatever the current science says is how it will stay? Maybe.

[Alejandra Barunda]

There's really a lot of unknowns right now. We'll start to know more when the cuts start to come in the next few weeks.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah.

[Alejandra Barunda]

The Trump administration leaders, though, have said that they basically want the office dismantled.

[Emily Kwong]

These cuts to the EPA are not the only indicator of a shift in the Trump administration's attitude towards climate research. Lauren. There's also been cuts at noaa, the national oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Remind all of us, what has NOAA historically done?

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah. So if you checked the weather on your phone this morning, you interacted with noaa, these are the scientists that make the weather forecasts. They track hurricanes and tornadoes and floods and droughts. They help warn people about those things. They make nautical charts to keep ships from running aground. They track space weather to make sure commercial flights are safe. They manage fisheries. They protect species like whales and corals. I could keep going. They do a lot.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah. I pretty much consulted NOAA every day as a member station reporter in Alaska. It's where we got all of our marine forecasts to read on air. So people didn't go out on the water when conditions weren't safe.

[Alejandra Barunda]

That's actually really cool. NOAA has also historically done a lot of research on weather, on fisheries, on climate change, all those things that Lauren just listed. And the administration is trying to cut that climate work basically in its entirety.

[Emily Kwong]

So what is President Trump's administration planning to shift within noaa?

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah, so staffing is definitely one thing. Hundreds of people have been fired so far. We know that's already affecting weather forecasting in some parts of the country. It's delayed the opening of some fishing seasons, which is a big deal for coastal communities. There are plans to essentially eliminate one of the research wings, you know, along with other climate work across the agency. And there are more budget cuts on the way. So a draft proposal from the White House for 2026 would reduce NOAA's current budget by more than 25%.

[Emily Kwong]

OK. People have been cut and the budget is going to be cut. What will the impact be there?

[Alejandra Barunda]

Yeah, Again, there's still A lot of unknowns. But the proposed budgets for both this year and next year would take direct aim at NOAA's Climate Work and a lot of its research. And like for the epa, the proposal wants to basically dismantle that research arm of the agency, which here is called OAR, which stands for oceanic and Atmospheric Research. Craig McLean led that research wing for years and he says cuts of this magnitude would take us back to the 1950s in scientific capability. The budget proposal also slashes support for some of NOAA's next generation satellites, which provide the basis for a lot of the weather and climate forecasting you see. And it would shrink funding for fisheries, even maybe move a lot of that work to another agency entirely.

[Emily Kwong]

Oh, wow.

[Alejandra Barunda]

Yeah. So suffice it to say, there's a lot of concern out there from experts and scientists and people who used to work at the agency. And they mostly say, sure, there are totally way make the agency more efficient, but this is not it.

[Emily Kwong]

Going back to what you said earlier about how if you check the weather today, you did interact with noaa, how will this affect the accuracy of weather forecasts in the future?

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah. So the budget proposal would keep funding even for the National Weather Service. Right. That's the weather forecasting part. But you know, in practice, they've been hit hard already because of those people that have been fired. And some scientists think they're already seeing weather forecasts get less accurate.

[Emily Kwong]

Right. The money can be there, but if there aren't people to do the science, it kind of falls apart.

[Alejandra Barunda]

Exactly. And like people are worried about this because there has been some pretty intense weather across the country already recently. And we haven't even really hit heat season, hurricane season, wildfire season. There's a lot coming down the pike.

[Emily Kwong]

Speaking of those weather disasters like flooding or storms or wildfires are getting worse. And a lot of the funding to prepare for those disasters comes from the federal government through fema. That's the last agency we're going to talk about today. What is the funding picture there?

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah, so there's a lot of funding that the federal government provides for preparing for disasters. A lot. FEMA has awarded more than four and a half billion dollars since 2020 to help communities prepare. You know, these are grants they've already told communities that they're getting, they're on the way, but now they've been canceled.

[Emily Kwong]

Okay, so what were these grants for?

[Lauren Sommer]

Okay, yeah, here's an example. So there's this tiny community of Depew, Illinois. They have a big problem, which is when it Rains a lot. It causes flooding, and it floods their sewage treatment plant. It gets inundated with water, and that means people may not be able to flush their toilets. Daniel Hoffart, the village president of depew, told me about it.

[Daniel Hoffart]

You know, once it would flood into the system, it would, you know, actually shut down the whole sewage treatment plant, and then we would be in a major hurt.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah, you need that sewage to run.

[Lauren Sommer]

Exactly, because if the plant isn't working, the sewage actually backs up in the pipes. It even spill into the basements of people's houses. And in past storms, they've had more than 100 houses that were affected. Fixing it means moving the wastewater treatment plant to higher ground. And that's expensive, you know, $25 million. And Hofford says it would take them decades to collect enough tax revenue because, you know, only about 1,500 people live there. So he applied to FEMA for this program specifically for projects that prevent disaster damage.

[Emily Kwong]

Interesting, because a lot of people think of FEMA as the agency that pays after a disaster hits. But this sounds like preventative support, almost.

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The idea is you pay a little bit now so you don't have to pay a lot more later. And studies show that it really is cheaper to prepare infrastructure for disasters instead of just paying to rebuild it after a disaster hits. So this grant program, it's called bric, Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities. It was actually started during Trump's first administration, and it kind of marked this big shift that disaster experts have been pushing for for decades, but now, you know, it's being canceled.

[Emily Kwong]

So what will that mean for the community of depew?

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah, so they had been told the grant was already awarded to them. They've been working on it. They've been planning and preparing for years. And Hoffart was actually expecting the money this year, and then he heard it was canceled.

[Daniel Hoffart]

It was probably within a month or two of being okay. So that's a really. It's really harsh.

[Emily Kwong]

So is the wastewater treatment plant just not going to be relocated? Next time it floods and this sewage backup happens, they just can't do anything about it.

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah. I mean, Hawford says they're looking for any other option at this point, but there just aren't a lot of sources for funding like that. The federal government really has been key for rural communities like his.

[Emily Kwong]

What is the Trump administration saying about why these grants have been canceled?

[Lauren Sommer]

So FEMA put out a statement saying the program is canceled because it's ineffective and part of an effort to root out waste and fraud. And, you know, Hoffart takes issue with that.

[Daniel Hoffart]

I don't think they know what waste is. I don't think they know what fraud is, you know, or anything like that. None of this, to me is wasteful and fraud.

[Lauren Sommer]

And his community is definitely not alone. You know, are many local governments and tribes that were told they had grants. They were on the way. And that's for things like, you know, tornado shelters and schools and preparing communities for wildfires.

[Emily Kwong]

And this is, of course, on the preparation side. What about FEMA's ability to respond after a disaster happens?

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah, there's a lot of concern about that as well, because FEMA needs a lot of people to respond when disasters hit. The agency has already lost more than 200 people. It's expected to lose hundreds more with the Trump administration's efforts to shrink the agency. And Trump has said he maybe wants FEMA to go away completely, and that could affect how many people will be available, you know, when those hurricanes and wildfires hit this summer.

[Emily Kwong]

Yeah. And of course, just going back to the Trump administration's statements about all of this, a lot of these changes are being made in the name of decreasing the cost of living. Alejandra and Lauren, I'd love to hear from both of you. Do you think everyday Americans will see their livelihoods improve with changes like these to the epa, NOAA and fema?

[Alejandra Barunda]

Gosh, what a question, Emily. I think it's going to be really interesting to see how long it takes for some of the changes in these agencies to trickle out into things that people actually experience in their everyday lives. And it's already starting for some. Like Lauren said earlier, there were fisheries seasons that were delayed opening this year, and that has a huge deal for the coastal communities that rely on them. As for the rest of it, I think we're all just kind of waiting to see.

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah. And I think a lot of this is a question of who pays. Right. Because we know climate disasters are getting worse. They're going to continue to get worse if we're not studying it, if we're not preparing for it. Those are costs that people will face in some way. And so it's a question of whether the federal government is there to support that or whether it's states and local communities that are going to be left kind of paying for that. In the end, who will pay for.

[Emily Kwong]

The reality of climate change? That is Lauren Sommer and Alejandra Barunda, both correspondents on NPR's Climate Desk. Thank you so much for coming on shortwave.

[Lauren Sommer]

Yeah, thanks.

[Alejandra Barunda]

Yeah, thanks for having us.

[Emily Kwong]

This episode was produced by Hannah Chin and edited by our showrunner, Rebecca Ramirez. Tyler Jones checked the facts, Robert Rodriguez was the audio engineer, Beth Donovan is our senior director and Colin Campbell is our senior vice president of podcasting strategy. I'm Emily Kwong. Thank you for listening to Short Wave, the Science podcast from.

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