Live From the Bracket: Episode 4 | Final Four and Philosophy with Jay Williams

Summary

Show Me Something – Live From the Bracket, Episode 4: Final Four and Philosophy with Jay Williams

Podcast: Show Me Something (iHeartPodcasts & The Volume)
Date: April 10, 2026
Hosts: Sophie Cunningham & West Wilson
Guest: Jay Williams (ESPN analyst, former Duke and NBA player)

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Episode Overview

This special "Live From the Bracket" episode brings together hosts Sophie Cunningham, WNBA & Indiana Fever player, and West Wilson, reality TV star, for a Final Four conversation infused with memories, locker room insight, Midwestern warmth, and a deep-dive interview with college basketball legend and ESPN personality Jay Williams. Together, they share stories from the NCAA tournament, the transformative impact of college sports on cities, and venture into the philosophy and future of basketball, all while keeping the conversation candid, optimistic, and rich with personal experience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. March Madness in Indianapolis & Fan Culture

• Midwestern Sports Pride:
  • The hosts paint Indianapolis as a warm, welcoming host city, with vibrant fan energy filling the streets, bars, and restaurants.
  • Sophie: "One thing that's like underrated. Unlike a lot of major sporting events...there's two games because it's the final four... So there's four schools in town at once." (07:07)
• Comparing Coasts to Midwest:
  • West celebrates the Midwest’s unique fan intensity, contrasting it with the more subdued approach on the coasts.
  • West: "We just love our sports...the coasts kind of lose it a little bit or they don't get it." (08:11)

2. Game Day Rituals and Hypothetical Scenarios

• If Your Team Makes the Final:
  • The hosts imagine their perfect gameday: sleeping in, casual exercise, hotel bar meet-up with friends, bar-hopping, then rallying together in team colors for the big game.
  • Sophie: "Hotel bar right downstairs...maybe it's like a late lunch reservation, bar hop...shower, put on our, our collegiate clothing and then head inside." (09:24)

3. Welcoming Jay Williams

• Jay Williams is introduced as Duke legend, ESPN analyst, 2001 national champion, and 2002 National Player of the Year.
  • Jay: “Big fan of the pod.” (11:00)

4. Processing Duke's Tournament Loss & Objectivity in Media

• Navigating Fan Loyalties:
  • Jay explains the struggle between objectivity vs. fandom in TV analysis and the freedom he’s found in being authentic.
  • Jay: "If I try to be objective, my fan base hates me because I'm being objective. If I'm a homer, everybody else hates me because I'm a homer. So I just stop really giving a damn what people think." (11:27)
• The 'Boozer Boys' and Freshman Growth:
  • Reflections on Kaden Boozer’s resilience and the challenge of performing under a social media microscope.
  • Jay: "I've held him when he was a little baby...losing on that stage, with social media...that's all people try to label you as." (12:04)

5. Coach K: Lessons Beyond the Court

• Humanizing Icons:
  • Jay shares rare, lighthearted moments from Duke celebrations (Coach K dancing after a win), highlighting the balance between seriousness and joy in elite programs.
  • Jay: "Watching him on the bus in Minneapolis dance, he let loose…” (13:02)
• The ‘Next Play’ Mentality:
  • A central philosophy from Coach K: persistence beyond mistakes, applied to sports, media, and life.
  • Jay: "He was by my side at the hospital, like, literally two days after I got hurt...just told me ‘next play’..." (14:37)

6. The Magic of the Final Four: Locker Rooms & Legacies

• On the Player Experience:
  • Jay relishes the camaraderie of tournament locker rooms, the experience of shared focus, and the unique bond it forges.
  • Jay: "There's something about tucking yourself in a bunker and it just being you and your team...I miss that so much." (15:53)
• Watching As an Analyst:
  • Jay enjoys witnessing other players’ moments and growth, embracing a supportive, even if sometimes “petty,” fandom.
  • Jay: “I like to store memories...and just use that as motivation.” (16:38)

7. Perceptions & Realness in the Public Eye

• Shattering Stereotypes:
  • Jay talks about being perceived as a stereotypical ‘Duke guy’ and defying those preconceptions, emphasizing authenticity over image.
  • Jay: "I'm like, Yo, I got 19 tattoos. Like, I'm not Christian Leitner...people have this perception..." (17:35)
• Relatability to Public Figures:
  • West: “Everyone who is living in public eye, everyone relates to that…‘Oh wait, I actually really like you.’”

8. Basketball Cities & Tournament Memories

• Underrated Basketball Cities:
  • Jay spotlights Indiana, recounting a dramatic Sweet 16 moment in Rupp Arena (Lexington), and ongoing good-natured ribbing from his IU-family.
  • Jay: "Indiana fans are crazy when it comes to ball." (23:16)
• Statewide Fandom:
  • "Giving the state love, but...Indiana basketball." (23:27)

9. Reflections on the National Championship, Coaches, and Behind-the-Scenes Bonds

• Dan Hurley & the Best-Dressed Ref:
  • Jay recounts personal connections in the coaching and refereeing world, highlighting the sport’s familial, community feel.
  • Jay: "He’s the best dressed referee there is in the game..." (24:20)

10. Life on the Road as a Player and Analyst

• Hotel Preferences & Travel Routines:
  • Cleanliness and privacy matter most; Jay has been a loyal Marriott customer since 13.
  • Jay: "My Marriott rewards points since I've been 13 years old..." (20:47)
  • Jay dislikes being near elevators, and prefers the hotel’s middle.
• Team Travel:
  • College means more team bonding on the bus; NBA is “team flight, no doubt.”

11. Family, Parenting, Perspective

• Passing on Values:
  • Jay shares how becoming a parent transformed his perspective, especially after personal tragedy (losing both his parents recently). He credits his mom and dad for instilling faith and the importance of hospitality.
  • Jay: "It's a gift...nobody says I have to be here, man." (33:20)
• Kids, Memory, & Experience:
  • He loves sharing history and life lessons with his children on the road.
• Parent Wisdom:
  • Sophie: "Our parents are always like, leave people better than you found them."

12. Superstitions & Game Day Mindset

• Jay’s Routine:
  • He recites the serenity prayer nightly and again each morning, carrying it from his personal hardships and into his travels and work.
  • Jay: “I always say the serenity prayer before I go to sleep and when I wake up, but I say it in my mind…” (31:41)

13. ‘This or That’: Basketball Life Lightning Round

(Selected highlights: 34:10–39:11)

• Hotel breakfast or room service? Jay: "Hotel breakfast."
• Banner or cutting down nets? Jay: "Hanging a banner."
• Game at home or overseas? Jay: "Game on the other side of the world."
• Final Four or Cameron Indoor? Jay: "Final Four."
• Film sesh or shootaround? Jay: "Shootaround."
• Cinderella story or blue blood showdown? Jay: "Blue blood showdown."
• Team bus (college) or flight (NBA)? Jay: "Team flight, no doubt about it...[but] as a college [player] team bus."
• Pregame workout or meditation? Jay: "Workout was the meditation."

14. WNBA Advocacy & Women in Sports

• Jay’s Support for Women's Basketball:
  • Jay speaks passionately about equity and fundamental quality in the women's game, reflecting admiration for players and coaches he learned from and played alongside since youth basketball.
  • Jay: "You’re human beings and you play...a sport that is growing immensely, and, you know, sharing a piece of the pie is critical..." (39:39)
  • He recalls training with Asia Jones and learning the value of fundamentals from women's players.
  • Jay appreciates that NBA support (like Kobe’s) has helped elevate and legitimize the women’s side, and believes the investment and public framing should be about growth, not subsidy.

15. The Future of Basketball: Academies & Professionalization

• Talent Development & NIL:
  • Jay predicts that sports academies and early professionalization (like in Europe) will rise in U.S. youth hoops, especially for women, viewing them almost as “trade schools” for the sports industry.
  • Jay: "If you want to be involved in sports...doesn’t it make sense for you to learn about the business of basketball?" (44:50)
• Financial Literacy for Athletes:
  • He underscores the need for athletes to be taught personal finance, contract basics, and how to utilize resources effectively.
  • Jay: “How do you want to be the first pick in the draft, and you don't know what the first pick in the draft makes?” (46:36)

16. Memorable Quotes

• On Public Perception:
  • Jay: “I'm like, Yo, I got 19 tattoos. Like, I'm not Christian Leitner...” (17:35)
• On Mistakes and Growth:
  • Jay: “Do you look at them as mistakes, or do you look at them as growth opportunities?” (14:34)
• On Hospitality:
  • Jay: “When I'm out and about, people come up to me and they'll talk to me and I'm like...How do I try to engage with this person for a minute?...hospitality...that same type of, like, thoughtfulness with life.” (32:46)
• On the WNBA:
  • Jay: “You’re human beings and you play...a sport that is growing immensely, and, you know, sharing a piece of the pie is critical…” (39:39)
• On Importance of Education for Athletes:
  • Jay: “There’s so many different jobs in sports...not just training, but educational as well.” (45:06)

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Notable Moments (with Timestamps)

• [11:27] Jay on media objectivity vs. fandom: “I just stop really giving a damn what people think.”
• [14:37] Coach K’s advice: “Next play.”
• [15:53] Jay on locker room bonds: “It’s a beautiful feeling, man.”
• [23:16] Sweet 16 memory and Indiana basketball culture.
• [31:41] Jay describes his daily serenity prayer and post-tragedy humility.
• [39:39] Jay’s passionate support for women’s basketball.
• [46:36] “How do you want to be the first pick in the draft, and you don't know what the first pick in the draft makes?”
• [48:16] Jay’s closing message: “Keep doing your thing and keep being yourselves. It cuts through.”

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Episode Tone & Style

Relaxed, upbeat, and relatable, with a blend of Midwestern hospitality, philosophical reflection, inside sports banter, and heartfelt advice. The conversation flows naturally between game analysis, personal stories, and big-picture cultural discussions, with an open, authentic tone throughout.

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Closing Thoughts

The episode captures why March Madness brings people together—on and off the court. Jay Williams, with his candor and wisdom, brings insight on growth, authenticity, and the value of sports as a lifelong learning platform. The Show Me Something team seamlessly blends game-day fun, nostalgia, and vision for the future, making this a standout Final Four conversation for fans of basketball and life alike.

Transcript

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[West]

West and Sophie, and this is the

[Sophie]

Show Me Something podcast with Mary Bomboy checking in Live from the Bracket.

[West]

Come on now. Some of the best game day memories don't happen on the court. They happen in hotel lobbies, over pregame meals, and in moments before tip off. As the official hotel partner of the ncaa, Marriott Bonvoy sees it all. From breakfast pep talks to fans bonding over shared rituals, it's the moments around the game that become the ones that people remember.

[Sophie]

This March Madness Live from the Bracket brings those stories to life in a limited podcast series about college hoops, travel and fandom with special guests and experiences along the way.

[West]

From now until April 15, Marriott Bonvoy members will be able to enter our Live from the Bracket sweepstakes for a chance to win a trip to the 2027 Final Four. Follow omeepod on Instagram to learn more. No purchase necessary. 18 in the 50 United States and DC ends 4 15, 26. For rules, visit rules.dja.com live from the bracket.

[Sophie]

We're taking March Madness above and beyond, and you'll want to stay tuned. Marriott Bonvoy, where game day checks in. Show Me Something podcast. Yo, what's going on?

[West]

We're back in Indy and it's not as cold this time, so I'll take it.

[Sophie]

The big eye is what people are calling it.

[West]

It's game day for Michigan and Yukon. Yukon, who do you have?

[Sophie]

I'm staying in the Michigan Hotel, so I kind of feel like I like that I gotta do it.

[West]

Honestly, I think like two or three weeks ago I would have seriously said UConn would have had it. But now watching Michigan. Oh yeah, those are just big boys that are pros. I think I'm going Michigan.

[Sophie]

They beat a one seed by 30 points.

[West]

If I was a betting woman, I would bet on Michigan.

[Sophie]

Yeah, but beautiful studio.

[West]

Yeah, it looks good. We've got the trophy back here, too.

[Sophie]

We're live from a Marriott.

[West]

We've had some good Studios that we've been shooting in with our guests. We do have our last one today.

[Sophie]

We just came from Phoenix and had great pot episodes. And then today were with Jay Williams, who rocks.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

Probably seen him on tv.

[West]

I saw him or heard the Voice.

[Sophie]

Yeah, I actually saw him on TV this morning. I turned ESPN on.

[West]

We're excited to have him. He's gonna be a good one.

[Sophie]

So lock the frickin. Okay. How's that sound?

[West]

Let's talk some ball.

[Sophie]

Well, fun tournament. A lot of one seed supremacy, which I hate.

[West]

It was like the things were supposed to happen, you know what I mean? Besides like the Duke and Yukon, that was like the biggest thing to me for sure.

[Sophie]

The biggest moment of the tourney. Yeah, but you need those. Actually, I would say round one and two, there were a few little uppy sets up. I'm always a fan of that.

[West]

You're always going to have those upsets. But I always want like underdog. Underdog to like really make it.

[Sophie]

We've talked about it before. With Nil, it's like way harder.

[West]

Okay, but let's talk a little Yukon. Michigan for real, though.

[Sophie]

Okay.

[West]

Have you. Have you been keeping up with them? A little.

[Sophie]

I mean, I watched Michigan dominate Arizona. Yeah. I watched Michigan with our sweet brother Kev.

[West]

Oh, did you?

[Sophie]

Yeah, we went to a little bar in downtown Phoenix.

[West]

That's fun.

[Sophie]

Every time we. We got wings and burgers and every time we'd look up at the tv, Michigan was like alley ooping from. From like half court.

[West]

Okay, here's my thing. And hopefully I'm not eating my words, but UConn are phenomenal players. Like, I'm not trying to take away from them whatsoever. Really good players, really good systematic players. But compared to Michigan, Michigan just has a bunch of hoopers who can just play. UConn is going to have people who go to the pros 1000%. Gotcha. Like, I'm not saying that, but Michigan has dogs. Dogs who are going to go to the pros.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[West]

Who just know, have the rhythm of the game. They don't need a system. They just know how to go get a bucket.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well.

[Sophie]

And like the biggest sinner in the bracket, which is kind of crazy.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

You have spent a lot of time in the great city of Indianapolis.

[West]

I have.

[Sophie]

What do you think a Final Four brings to the community? Weirdly enough, the Final Fours, men's and women's are like your home bases.

[West]

Is that weird?

[Sophie]

That is weird.

[West]

Is it the year of Me Kind of say less. I could get behind this I feel like, honestly, the W has done a great job of bringing a lot of money into the state of Indiana.

[Sophie]

Okay.

[West]

Having a men's final four anywhere, I just think the restaurants thrive. The, the people around town, they get excited. The gas, the hotels. I think the cities do a really good job having people feel important, embracing them into their culture of Indiana. And people are showing out. It's packed here.

[Sophie]

One thing that's like underrated. Unlike a lot of major sporting events where it's one event and then you go home, there's two games because it's the final four. So you have the round of four and then you have the championship. So there's four schools in town at once. Two of those teams unfortunately do lose and they have probably booked their flights in hotels, assuming that they'd be in the championship game. And then their whole job after that is to hang out and just catch vibes.

[West]

Okay.

[Sophie]

But explore the city.

[West]

Well, that's what I was going to say. Like people, we just had people in here from Arizona and they're still here because they want to see the championship game. And so you're right. They're just catching vibes. They're getting to see the beautiful, beautiful downtown Indianapolis. And so St. Elmos, go get you some shrimp cocktail.

[Sophie]

Have you been delivery here? Huh?

[West]

I've not.

[Sophie]

It's nice little Mexican restaurant.

[West]

Really.

[Sophie]

We had a great time because we've been here. We were here for selection Sunday and now Final four. I was kind of saying downtown, but last night we went and got dinner. Like more in the. Not like in the suburbs, but it was like a 10 minute Uber.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

I like to drive to a restaurant and just kind of like scope out neighborhoods and feel at home and like there are a bunch of houses with like Colts flags and cute little streets with like trees and old stoops.

[West]

Being back in the Midwest, we just love our sports.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[West]

Like we, we love our sports and. And I know that like Indiana, they won with their, the football and I know it's known for like a basketball state, but like everyone is waving the flags. Everyone is like wearing their colors. And I absolutely love that about college sports culture in the Midwest. So I think the coasts kind of lose it a little bit or they don't get it. They're not fired up as much as we are.

[Sophie]

I would agree. And I mean, it helps that there's.

[West]

That they're good.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah.

[West]

Yeah. Because the Colts kind of caught on fire and like people.

[Sophie]

I was thinking about the Peyton Manning era and how fun it would have been to be here with, with that whole team.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

When they were rocking, trying to compete with Tom Brady every single fall.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

But for sure, the Midwest is like the best place to be a fan of any team ever.

[West]

Wait, I have a. I have.

[Sophie]

And especially the fever.

[West]

Wait, let's, let's walk through. Okay. If you are a fan and say your team was in the championship game, what is your ideal day? Game is at 9:00pm tonight. Oh. So you have to like walk me through when you're waking up. What are you doing? Your friends are in town. What's going on? I like this.

[Sophie]

I'm going to try to be a little wholesome. I'm going to wake up at like 11, just a quick 30 minute incline walk downstairs in the treadmill.

[West]

I was wet out last night expecting that at all.

[Sophie]

And then I'm going, I'm going to the hotel bar right downstairs.

[West]

Okay.

[Sophie]

Of this beautiful Marriott.

[West]

Yep.

[Sophie]

And I'm going to wait for all the boys to come downstairs like noon, 12:30. I think that's probably around 1:1.

[West]

Okay.

[Sophie]

One lunch. Maybe we just wander around because we're not doing a big dinner because we're going to be ready to go to the game. So maybe it's like a late lunch reservation. Stay there, drink a little bit bar hop because you're bar hopping during the day and we're going to come back, shower, put on our, our collegiate clothing and then head inside.

[West]

I like that.

[Sophie]

And may I say before we head out of here, my water pressure pretty good.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Sick.

[West]

Yeah, it was good. It was really good.

[Sophie]

So salute.

[Jay Williams]

Salute.

[West]

Marriott AC was good too. I walked in my room and I was like, Wes would enjoy this.

[Sophie]

It's beautiful. I woke up this morning, turned on ESPN because that's what I do most mornings.

[West]

Did you see a lovely, beautiful man

[Sophie]

in a dark turtleneck?

[West]

Yep. With blue socks.

[Jay Williams]

I'm glad the story started that way.

[Sophie]

Yeah. It was torso up

[Jay Williams]

and so put the legs down.

[Sophie]

Now I felt special because said person on my TV screen was coming to hang out with us soon after. So he's been working already this morning. Was that live?

[Jay Williams]

Yeah. Every hit has been live.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

This morning starting at 5:30am so that

[Sophie]

was special for me. But before I started asking you a thousand questions, let me give you a special little intro if you're down, guys.

[Jay Williams]

Our guest today, expectations high.

[Sophie]

Our guest today, former Duke standout and one of the most recognizable voices in college basketball. A national champion in 2001, a first team All American and national player of the year in 2002. He is one of Duke's all time greats. After his playing career, he's become one of the most trusted analysts and commentators for ESPN and beyond.

[West]

We'll see if he's trusted after this.

[Sophie]

Yeah, we gotta find that out. Please welcome Jay Williams, everybody.

[Jay Williams]

Hi, guys. Yeah, I gotta tell you, big, big fan of the pod.

[Sophie]

Thanks so much.

[Jay Williams]

Big fan of the pod.

[West]

All right, well, I'm just gonna get right into it.

[Sophie]

Okay.

[West]

How are you feeling after that, Duke's loss?

[Jay Williams]

I thought this was like a positive. I think it's always one of those things I'm torn about. Right. I think what I recognized a long time ago doing TV is that if I try to be objective, my fan base hates me because I'm being objective. If I'm a homer, everybody else hates me because I'm a homer. So I just stop really giving a damn what people think.

[Sophie]

Preach.

[Jay Williams]

I root for my team and I tell you, if I think they're bad in a matchup. And it's pain painful to see UConn here in the championship game. Plus, they've owned our number for the last 10, 15 years, since 1999.

[West]

Turning it back to being positive, the Boozer Boys, and especially the one who did the tournament, Kaden. Yeah, he owned it. He owned it. And I just wanted to give him a squeeze because he's a freshman. He's young, unexperienced at the collegiate level, but, like, he stepped up to the plate, you know what I mean? And so, like, he had a heck of a season. The whole Duke team did, but that was a heartbreaker.

[Jay Williams]

So can I tell you, his dad is my teammate.

[West]

Yes.

[Jay Williams]

So I've held him when he was a little baby.

[West]

Oh, really?

[Jay Williams]

Which is crazy. Now I'm just an old man. No, but it's like those are like the little babies, you know what I mean? So watching him and you know how it is. And like, we all have our experiences, like losing on that stage with social media, like, that's all people try to label you as, so. But he's a strong kid. He's gonna be all right. He's gonna be all right.

[West]

Talking about, like, your college days. All of our college days. Talk about your favorite travel memories back in Duke, like, with teammates.

[Jay Williams]

I'll probably say one of my best experiences traveling was, you know, every time Duke has won a championship, we've either won it in Minneapolis or Indianapolis.

[Sophie]

Interesting.

[Jay Williams]

Which, once again, you know, not to pour salt on the wound, but we won in Minneapolis and we won it. And Obviously, you know, like, winning a championship is just crazy in general, right?

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

And we all got on a team bus. You know, Coach K is always like, every time you see him, he talks like this. And he's pretty.

[West]

I love him.

[Jay Williams]

He's like, you know, he's military. You know what I mean?

[Sophie]

And.

[Jay Williams]

And watching him on the bus in Minneapolis dance, he let loose. He let his shoulders start flowing, and I was like, oh, now I see why. Mickey marry you, Coach. Ok, now it's all coming together.

[Sophie]

Like, that was like.

[Jay Williams]

It was like a. You know. You know how it is. Like, you know, I didn't get a chance to see my coach be human a lot.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

It was always, like, so just monotonous every single day. That was a great moment.

[Sophie]

Typically, you hit the airport after an away game, but when you guys won in Minneapolis, did you get to stay at the hotel one more night?

[Jay Williams]

Oh, my God.

[Sophie]

Yeah, Right?

[Jay Williams]

Just great. Just great. Coach K just hit me in the chest with three of his national championship rings. Two of them just hit me so hard. I was like, I'm not gonna act like it hurt.

[West]

Wait, what is. Yeah. What is something you really learned from him? Because I think Coach K is one. He's a lot of people's favorites. I just feel like the more that you just listen to him when you're away from the sport, not that you're away from it, but you're not being coached by him every day. So it's a different perspective, a different lens. Like, what is something that you really learn from him?

[Jay Williams]

I think, you know, he often talked about, and it's been critical for my life because, you know, like, being drafted second overall, you're getting a chance to live out your dream.

[West]

Yep.

[Jay Williams]

Right. And for me, my dream was cut short by a mistake that I made. So, as you can imagine, similar to Kate and booze, or why I probably run towards kids like that is, you make a mistake on a national scene, everybody has some type of judgment that they think they would do if they were in your shoes. That's why I love, like, man in the arena. Right. It's like. It's a great speech. And I think for him in particular to your question, there will be mistakes.

[West]

Yep.

[Jay Williams]

Do you look at them as mistakes, or do you look at them as growth opportunities?

[West]

Boom.

[Jay Williams]

Like, he was by my side at the hospital, like, literally two days after I got hurt.

[West]

Amazing.

[Jay Williams]

And just prayed with me and just told me next play.

[West]

Yep.

[Jay Williams]

That was always his thing. Like, if I had three turnovers in a game, like, J Next play. If I made four shots. J Next play. I say something stupid on TV was a mistake because you're on TV for seven hours a day. Next play. You make a mistake in a relationship, all these things. Right. And for me, in that moment when you want to wallow in your own pity, think about the next play.

[West]

Yep. So good.

[Sophie]

Okay, real quick, I'm going to lob you. Every year, Final Four weekend brings the games, the pageantry, and legions of loyal fans to one city. It's a stage that's bigger than anything else in college basketball. What about Final Four weekend do you look forward to the most?

[Jay Williams]

I love trash talking to fan bases. I love it. It is so my thing. It just. It makes me warm inside, you know, like. Cause I. Cause I think, you know, fans often just. That exchange is great. And also, like, I know as a player that played in it, there's so much noise. I'm just like, you guys. There's so much noise that always leads up to all this. Right? And then there's something about tucking yourself in a bunker and it just being you and your team. These people that I'm rocking with, like, that's my squad right now. And, like, it's. I miss that so much.

[West]

Yep.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah. Like, it never. You never get a chance to do that again. Being here in that moment where everything else, like, you can play in front of 60,000 people, it's just you and your squad. It's a beautiful feeling, man. Yeah.

[West]

Okay, now not playing. What is something you look forward to?

[Jay Williams]

Watching other people experience their moments.

[Sophie]

Yes.

[West]

I like that.

[Jay Williams]

Like, watching my freshman in my junior year, we lost in a sweet 16 to the team that lost in the national championship game each year. And, like. And that hurts. Like, that's like. You're like, oh, yeah. Like, trying to be like Duke right now. Watching UConn. Yeah, right. I just said, I don't even know.

[West]

I didn't think I would watch. Every time we got kicked out of the tournament, I stopped watching.

[Jay Williams]

You did?

[West]

Yeah, I was, like, on the beach or, like, I just didn't want to. I was over it.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah. I respect that.

[West]

Cause if you're on my team, I don't like you.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah.

[West]

But then once you're on my team. Love you.

[Jay Williams]

Yep. Fair. So I feel like I'm Petty LaBelle. I'm, like, very petty. I like to store memories and just use that. Just use that as motivation, you know? I'm a little bit resentful.

[Sophie]

That fits Duke. Can I say that?

[Jay Williams]

Sure.

[Sophie]

That fits like a Duke graduate expound, small private school and people are more petty towards you and you just have it to give back at all times. Is that fair to say?

[Jay Williams]

So I'm from Jersey, okay. But I feel like I have a west coast vibe. I love the mountains, I love the beach. Chill out there, listen to the water. Like, that's my whole energy. I like that. Being recruited by them. I'm like, regardless. Like, I was at Georgetown. Do I not go there? Like it was Coach K. Yeah, yeah. Like, do I say no to that? And then like we played a style of basketball. Like we were like kind of like the Golden State warriors before they started playing Golden State warriors basketball. So all of a sudden, like people started comparing me to woj. Like Wojahowski and Bobby Hurley and Christian Laitner. I'm like, Yo, I got 19 tattoos. Like, I'm not Christian Leitner. I love you guys. I know, like, the turtleneck may throw you off a little bit, like, you know what I mean? Or the blue socks, I get it. But like, that's not who I am. So it's almost like people have this perception of who they think you are. I'm sure you guys see it all the time too. Didn't you meet? You're like, oh, you're. You're really cool. I'm like, ah, duh. What do you mean?

[West]

You know, I feel like everyone who is living in public eye, everyone relates to that, but I think the majority of people, it's like, oh wait, I actually really like you. You're not. It's like, well, yeah. Cause you guys don't know me. You guys. That's what you think. Cause like, we all hate each other on the court. You know what I mean?

[Colgate Advertiser]

It always happens right before the whistle. There's a little voice that says, what if I mess up? What if I'm not ready? I see a whole highlight reel of everything I don't want to happen. Missed shots, turnovers, letting my team down. And for a second there's doubt. But then I realize I've done enough to be where I'm at. The early mornings, the extra reps, the days I wanted to quit and didn't. So I smile. Self doubt is natural, but my smile is a reminder that I'm resilient

[Jay Williams]

to

[Colgate Advertiser]

put more smiles out into the world. Colgate has supported female athletes for over 50 years with the Colgate Women's Games. The Colgate Women's Games is the nation's longest running indoor track and field series for girls and women. Colgate, your smile is Your strength.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. Instead of giving your mom something that fades, give her something that becomes part of her home this Mother's Day. The Lenox Spice Village is a set of 24 hand painted little houses that are actually spice jars. Perfect for anyone who loves to cook, entertain, or enjoy the little details that make everyday life special. As a mom, I love gifts that help turn ordinary moments into memories. Charming, timeless, and meant to be used. This is one of those pieces she'll treasure. And once you see it, you'll want it for your own home too. Find the full [e-mail] SpiceVillage dry eyes.

[Ring/Maibo Advertiser]

Still feel gritty, rough or tired with mibo eyes can feel mybo O yeah. Mibo Perfluorohexaloctane ophthalmic solution is used to treat the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. It's the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one, too much tear evaporation so eyes can find relief.

[Jay Williams]

That's maibo.

[Sophie]

O yeah.

[Ring/Maibo Advertiser]

Don't use if allergic to maibo. Remove contacts before using and wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. Eye redness and blurred vision may occur. For more info, talk to your eye doctor, call 1-844-MEIBO yeah or visit meibo.com

[Sophie]

Jay, as a traveling man, a college athlete, and in your professional life.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

You're on the road a lot.

[Jay Williams]

Yes.

[Sophie]

Hotels, cars, planes, whatever. What keeps you grounded while you're traveling? Like, what are you doing?

[Jay Williams]

My Marriott rewards points since I've been 13 years old.

[West]

Wait, are you being for real?

[Jay Williams]

Yeah, since I've been 13 years old. I was telling the crew all back. They're like, what? I'm like, yeah. My dad worked at Amex, so we've been. I've been staying in Marriott since I've been little.

[Sophie]

What then? Okay, then let's do that. What do you need in a hotel room or hotel?

[Jay Williams]

Cleanliness.

[Sophie]

Of course.

[Jay Williams]

That's not. Of course.

[Sophie]

Here it is.

[Jay Williams]

Well, here it is.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yes.

[Jay Williams]

That. Hate being next to elevators. Can't do it.

[West]

Okay.

[Jay Williams]

I can't like it. Just can't.

[West]

Yeah, can't do it.

[Sophie]

Okay.

[Jay Williams]

Can't do it.

[Sophie]

So you like. You'd rather take the walk?

[Jay Williams]

I like to be in the middle of the hotel.

[West]

What's a.

[Sophie]

What's an underrated basketball city in your opinion? It could be professional. It could be w. It could be college.

[Jay Williams]

I gotta be honest with you.

[Sophie]

Okay, he's gonna say Chapel Hill.

[Jay Williams]

No, no, no.

[West]

No,

[Jay Williams]

my junior year. Like, how many times when you're a little girl, were you in your backyard and you're shooting and you close your eyes and you're like, three, two, one. And the shot goes up and it goes in. Right? Okay.

[West]

Yes.

[Jay Williams]

My last college basketball game. Sweet 16 against Indiana at Kentucky. It's the only time in my life I think I've ever heard Kentucky fans root for Indiana. That never happens because they despise us so much. Down four.

[Sophie]

So it was in Lexington.

[Jay Williams]

In Lexington.

[Sophie]

Sweet 16 at the arena where Kentucky plays at Rupp Arena. Oh, okay. Interesting.

[Jay Williams]

They take a shot, I get the. My rookie freshman takes the ball down the right side of the floor, shoots a three. We're down four with eight seconds left to go in the game. The ball hits the back of the rim, bounces to me at the top of the key. Literally, like every dream. Catch the ball. This guy Dane Fife is right there from iu. Give him a head fake. He jumps. I close my eyes, jump into this dude, throw it up. And one ball goes in.

[West]

Four point play.

[Jay Williams]

Three. Three and a half seconds left on the clock. Every kid's dream they call timeout. Coach K is great at drawing, like, all these visionary stuff. He's like, when you make this free throw, we're going into our 41 press, like, hands up. He's talking about all these next defensive plays, right? I'm locked in. I'm like, I'm going to make the free throw. I'm going to make the free throw. I'm going to make the free throw. Up to the free throw line, do my routine. Ball goes in and out. My teammate, Carlos Boozer, gets the rebound, gets fouled. They don't call it. Oh, we lose to Indiana. Now, I tell you this because I happened to marry a girl that went to IU and her brother and her dad also went to IU. And all I hear about is the Ms. Free Throw for the last 10 years of my life. Indiana fans are crazy when it comes to ball.

[West]

I like them already.

[Jay Williams]

It's very flat. Not a lot to do around here. I do respect downtown things that came up a long way, but, like, like, Indiana fans are pretty crazy, man.

[Sophie]

They're pretty loyal towards Bloomington as a whole. Or do we think the state. Are we giving the state love?

[Jay Williams]

Giving the state love, but I'm also giving, like, Indiana basketball. They will now say they're a football school because they're basketball.

[Sophie]

Wow.

[West]

Wait, so what are you. You have a lot to say about all these sports, and I love this. But what are you looking forward to

[Jay Williams]

today in the national championship game?

[Colgate Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

I've known Dan Hurley since I've been.

[West]

We need to talk about him and the ref.

[Sophie]

That was. It's the funniest video I've ever seen.

[Jay Williams]

The ref is my boy.

[Sophie]

Oh, you know both of them.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah. The rep is my boy. He's been around forever. What he does is every time I call a game, like a Big 12 or ACC game, he walks over to me, he's like, yo, I had on the pink flamingo suit pants tonight. I had the gray Pacino loafers on. I had the jacket on. Like, he always tells me what his game fit is. Like, all like, it's down to a tee. And I always see him leaving. He's the best dressed referee there is in the game, and him and Dan are kind of boys. So, like, they kind of like, they're not. That was the moment of they're cool. Like, it's like they're like, yeah. He didn't think anything about it.

[Sophie]

Oh, Dan was just hyped.

[Jay Williams]

Like crazy was just hyped.

[Sophie]

That's nuts.

[Jay Williams]

Dan's always been hyped.

[Sophie]

Though I do have to also say I listen to the Keyshawn, Max and Jay podcast all the time.

[Jay Williams]

Max is genius. Max is straight up tell you. Like, so we have like our pre production meeting every day, like at 4:45 in the morning, right?

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

I'm like, all right.

[West]

So when do you go to bed?

[Jay Williams]

Yeah. You just pretty much don't sleep. You just keep going?

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[West]

Is that why you're doing circles around this table?

[Jay Williams]

We first started so Max would come on the show and like, all right. Like, oh, the Monday night game was last night. Max was like, I did not watch one second of it. And I'm like, so where do we go with this? So then Max would read and then he would hear a couple people and have their assessment, and next thing you know, like, 10 minutes into the show, he has this thesis that is brilliant.

[Sophie]

I'm like, how did you just do that?

[Jay Williams]

Meanwhile, Key's coming in from the bar the night before. Key's like, oh, I was watching the game with all the boys. Like, so everybody just had their, like, the true part about, like, the reason why your show was good. You guys are just authentically yourselves. Right? Like, it doesn't feel performative. You're just kicking it.

[Sophie]

I don't think we've set a stat. The entirety of this.

[West]

No, we said that here. Player of the year.

[Jay Williams]

Player of the year.

[West]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sophie]

True 2002.

[West]

So we, we talk about a lot on court and some of the experiences you've had, but walk us through like you as a player, not on the court. What, what are the hotel stays? Like, what are the meals? Like the bus, like tournament, specifically when

[Sophie]

it's like non stop city, city, city, bang, bus, game, hotel.

[Jay Williams]

A lot of video games. Video games are played. Call of duty.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

NBA 2K. A lot of stuff like that. As a player, a lot of just shenanigans that typically occur when you're dumb and you're 17, 18, 19 years old.

[West]

Do you do that like with Coach K as your coach?

[Jay Williams]

Oh, my goodness.

[West]

You gotta.

[Sophie]

No, you gotta tell us actually during

[West]

tournament time or just like normal season.

[Jay Williams]

I can neither confirm nor deny the specific time or location of some of these things that have occurred.

[Sophie]

Jay, we've talked about this. You travel all over the country. When you're traveling, how do you like to explore a new city? Like for me, find like an old bar, sit in it, have a couple beers and just see who comes in, who comes out. Maybe talk to the bartender. What do you like to do when you're in a new city? How do you take it in?

[Jay Williams]

So the last couple years have been hard because I have three kids under seven, so I'm always tired.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[West]

Well, have fun though.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah, they're the best too. So sometimes, like when I go into cities with them, like, I kind of. I like history, love. So like just going through, like, hey, what are the top five places that we can go visit where I can teach my kids about history? Because I don't find that people talk about that anymore. So going to locations, I'm big on that love. Like sightseeing and just kind of like talking through like what used to be right to understand, like where we are now. So I love anything like that.

[Sophie]

My dad's very much like that. And I appreciate the. Those memories now that I'm older, more than I did when I was younger. Yeah, because when you're little, history's hard to like truly grasp, just like the importance of it, you know.

[West]

But when you're physically there too, though, you just, you get to take it in.

[Sophie]

But looking back now, I'm like, the fact I've been to XYZ Historical Place is so special. See, I'm saying your kids will be very proud of those experiences.

[Jay Williams]

And articulate boys. I think girls are different. Like, I have two girls and one boy. Right? So, like, my friend Scott made this video. They were all having a beer at this Bar just difference between girls and boys. Because My kids are 7, 5 and 3. So my son is in the middle. Right.

[Sophie]

Okay.

[Jay Williams]

So Amelia, Zayn, Penelope. And this video was all these guys sitting at the bar. Four guys. And one of my friends stood on top of the table and they did it by AI and kind of like jumped out of the roof and then jumped into outer space. Right. And my son is like, oh, that's so cool. And my oldest daughter's like, but how can he breathe? He's in outer space.

[West]

Girls have brains.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

It's activated earlier than. Right. Like, my daughter, when we go places, she's like, she'll talk about it.

[Sophie]

That's dope.

[Jay Williams]

For like a while. Like, she'll talk about Indiana, places she's been like, remembers it all like that. Where my son's just. It's so. It's, I guess, about timing and when the brain forms, you know?

[West]

True. Speaking of kids, when you were little, who was your favorite player growing up and why? And also now watching collegiate hoops or pro hoops, who's someone that you still really love?

[Jay Williams]

So I. I am. So, like, all these conversations, whenever I start talking about business, I geek out.

[West]

Yep.

[Jay Williams]

Like, I love sitting at this intersection of sports and business. And, you know, I'm six two. I never thought I was gonna be six, eight. But like, Magic Johnson was like my favorite person of all time. Even though I used to watch Magic, I'm like, I'm gonna be more like Isaiah, but like, I rock with you, Magic. Right. So like meeting Magic and spending time with Magic, and Magic's like my little bro. He calls me his little brother. I'm like, oh, thank you, Lord. Just. Cause like, you know, what he's built is legendary. I think, like, when I see guys now, like, I got the best job ever.

[West]

You really do.

[Jay Williams]

Honestly, it's so gnarly. I get a chance to hang out with like Asia Wilson or you. Or like some of the best players in the W. Get a chance to play like LeBron or talk to D. Wade about history or Melo or, you know, if I'm watching Kate Cunningham in Detroit, like all these different people and just sports in general. Nascar, NFL, NHL, like NHL hockey, playoff. It's just awesome.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

So I think when you get a chance to spend time with Pete Carroll, I'm like, yo, you are way more smart. Like, you're brilliant. I never knew him like that. Right. So Caliperi, you just made mention of him. Like, you know, my father in law is Italian, so like, I just Watch literally like these. And I'm from Jersey, so my friends would call me like a black Italian growing up. Like, I just watch these two just like kick it.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

And like, and they were like, oh, it's raghazi. And all these other, like. So it's like you get a chance to know people on a human level, which is. It's just cool to me.

[Sophie]

Meeting people is such a better human experience than thinking, you know, people from media or TV or.

[West]

Because you get to know them and like, why they are the way they are. And like, when you are around people who are so brilliant at their craft and then you get to pick their brain, it's just like, I love that stuff. And now that I'm kind of on this side of it. And you do get to kind of like interview, tell stories. Yeah. And it's just like, people are just genius and the way they think about the craft. I know you say sports in general, but for when I'm still playing, like, I just love seeing different people's perspective on the sport of basketball. And it's cool as a player, it's cool as an analyst. And so, I don't know, I appreciate that too.

[Jay Williams]

What's your favorite part about doing media now?

[West]

My favorite thing is being around the players and seeing their daily habits, picking their brains on why they do what they do. I love breaking down offenses and defenses and why they're playing a certain way, why they switch up that style. I was with the Suns broadcast for three or four years and once KD got there and you know, book's phenomenal, but KD is just, I feel like on whole another level. Yes. And so just like always seeing his little right to left crossover right at that elbow, no one could stop it. I saw so many game winners and just everyone knows that's his move, but they couldn't stop it. And so just like picking up on small details and you know, getting to see Wimby play live, getting to say see Luka play lives, getting to see these, you know, amazing players, just like, I don't know, they're the elite level athletes in the entire world and you get to see it firsthand, then talk about it and then interview them. I just think that's so special.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah.

[West]

Yep.

[Sophie]

Speaking of little details, Jay, did you have a routine or like, are you superstitious in any way? Anything you did at the hotel before you played or even before a big day?

[Jay Williams]

It's crazy being a parent. The most humbling thing that can ever happen to you.

[Sophie]

Right.

[Jay Williams]

Gets you outside of yourself. And this is positive because, you know, I almost died when I was 21. Right. So that was a very hard experience for me to learn who I was, but not through the lens of other people, like, for myself and who I wanted to be. Right. I lost my mom, you know, three years ago. Coming up in a couple of days.

[West]

Sorry to hear that.

[Jay Williams]

It's okay. And I lost my dad this year. And so, you know, my parents have always instilled faith in me. So, like, I always say the serenity prayer before I go to sleep and when I wake up, but I say it in my mind, right. And it's like, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the strength to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Because I just feel like. And I say it to my. My kids because, man, life throws so many different things at you. And especially when I'm traveling, I don't know how you guys are, but being out and about, I absorb a lot of people's energies all the time. Right. So it's. And I've definitely had a couple of bump ins with people, like when I was younger that I thought I wanted to meet. And I was so disappointed when I met them because they didn't take that time. Right. Just to treat me like I was a person.

[West]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

And so, like, when I'm out and about, people come up to me and they'll talk to me and I'm like, all right, I have a choice in this moment. Like, I'm dead tired. I've been going since 4:00am Like, I have no words, but, like, how do I try to engage with this person for a minute? Right. And I want my kids to have that same type of, like, hospitality. Like, that same type of, like, thoughtfulness.

[West]

Yes.

[Jay Williams]

With life. Because it, man, is. Nobody says I have to be here, man.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[West]

Yep.

[Jay Williams]

Like, and also, like, when my mom and my dad, I'm like, Whoa. Like, I'm 44 years old. Like, I got 23 extra years with them.

[West]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

Like, nobody said I had to have that. Yeah. So it's a gift.

[West]

Yep.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

You know, it's a gift.

[West]

That's a great perspective.

[Sophie]

It's good.

[West]

And I think we can all feel that because you are exhausted. Like, you just told us your schedule after this. And it's like, how are you doing what you're doing? You do this, like, on a daily basis just. Just to feed off that. I feel like our parents are always like, leave people better than you found them. How can you put a smile or how can you make people. I love the word hospitality. Like I've never even thought about that because you think about in so many ways. But how can you do that when people come up to you and so you can feel that. I think we felt your energy right when you came in. We're like, this is going to be great.

[Sophie]

That's a good way to put it.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

I've always just thought that. I think being and maybe not for everyone, but being kind and nice at least comes naturally to. I would like to think it comes naturally to everybody. But yeah, when you meet people who don't take the time to whether it's be respectful or give you the time. I just feel like that would drain me more than it would like taking the time to like energy management, baby. Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

It's a real thing.

[Sophie]

Quick little game of this or that.

[Jay Williams]

Okay.

[Sophie]

And we're asking you but like we'll probably chime in. Hotel breakfast or post game. Room service.

[Jay Williams]

Hotel breakfast.

[West]

Cutting down the nets or hanging a banner.

[Jay Williams]

Hanging a banner. Really hanging the banner.

[Colgate Advertiser]

A game in your it always happens right before the whistle. There's a little voice that says, what if I mess up? What if I'm not ready? I see a whole highlight reel of everything I don't want to happen. Missed shots, turnovers, letting my team down. And for a second there's doubt. But then I realize I've done enough to be where I'm at. The early mornings, the extra reps, the day, day to I wanted to quit and didn't. So I smile. Self doubt is natural, but my smile is a reminder that I'm resilient

[West]

to

[Colgate Advertiser]

put more smiles out into the world. Colgate has supported female athletes for over 50 years with the Colgate Women's Games. The Colgate Women's Games is the nation's longest running indoor track and field series for girls and women. Colgate, your smile is your strength.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. Instead of giving your mom something that fades, give her something that becomes part of her home this Mother's Day. The Lenox Spice Village is a set of 24 hand painted little houses that are actually spice jars. Perfect for anyone who loves to cook, entertain or enjoy the little details that make everyday life. As a mom, I love gifts that help turn ordinary moments into memories. Charming, timeless and meant to be used. This is one of those pieces she'll treasure. And once you see it, you'll want it for your own home too. Find the full [e-mail] SpiceVillage dry eyes

[Ring/Maibo Advertiser]

still feel gritty, rough or tired. With Maibo eyes can feel Maibo put fluorohexaloctane off. That solution is used to treat the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. It's the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one too much tear evaporation so eyes can find relief. That's don't use if allergic to meibo. Remove contacts before using and wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. Eye redness and blurred vision may occur. For more info, talk to your eye doctor, call 1-844-MEIBO yeah or visit meibo.com

[West]

your hometown or a Game on the Other side of the world.

[Jay Williams]

Oh, game on the other side of the world.

[Sophie]

That's good.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah. I want to see.

[Sophie]

There's such good basketball. Have you seen those videos where this the the serf's on fire.

[Jay Williams]

It's wild.

[West]

Never get over cuz when you play over there you get to experience that.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah.

[West]

And Jokic when he was like when they're like oh is the crowd going to do. He's like I'm from Serbia, brother. And then you see guns are going whole thing is shaking.

[Sophie]

Game at Cameron or final four?

[Jay Williams]

Final four.

[Sophie]

Okay.

[Jay Williams]

Wow.

[West]

This is a salty question.

[Jay Williams]

Trying to hang banners, Wes.

[Sophie]

That's true.

[West]

Free upgraded suite or crunch time? Free throw.

[Jay Williams]

Free upgraded. Sweet. I hate you both. I'll tell you one story about a Ms. Free Throw. It has to get worked into the

[Sophie]

last family in flight movie or good music? I internally battle with this one a lot actually.

[Jay Williams]

This is tough. And I because I love country music like and low key. It makes me chill out. Yeah. But I do love a great in flight movie. I love it. If I had to go music.

[Sophie]

I always think I'm gonna watch a movie and then I just kind of like I just get comfortable with my shuffle and I just let it. I just let it rip.

[West]

Easy one here. Durham or Chapel Hill?

[Jay Williams]

What am I doing hanging out? Because the old me would have been like Chapel Hill. I love hanging out in Chapel Hill. No, I'm always going to choose Durham

[Sophie]

Film sesh or shoot around.

[Jay Williams]

Shoot around.

[West]

You fully unpack or live out of your suitcase? Depends on how.

[Jay Williams]

I know a lot of people who fully unpack all the time. I kind of go back and forth.

[Sophie]

Oh, I know Jay's answer for this one. It's probably all three of us. Post game hotel recovery or go out and celebrate.

[West]

Shout out Florida State.

[Sophie]

Come on, dude. Yeah.

[West]

Shout out Tallahassee 160 point game or 20 point triple double?

[Jay Williams]

20 point triple double.

[West]

Like that?

[Jay Williams]

Yeah.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

Did you get a lot of or you boards, guy?

[Jay Williams]

No, I got boards.

[Sophie]

You did?

[Jay Williams]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

Good.

[Jay Williams]

I think I averaged, like, six rebounds.

[Sophie]

Dog Dog. Cinderella story or blue blood showdown?

[Jay Williams]

Oh, I kind of like the blue blood showdown.

[Sophie]

Yeah. That's good. That's good.

[West]

Team bus or team flight?

[Jay Williams]

NBA or college?

[West]

That's what I was about to say.

[Jay Williams]

Ah, different experiences.

[West]

Yeah, I would say. I was just about to say as a pro team flight.

[Jay Williams]

Team flight, no doubt about it.

[West]

But as a college team bus.

[Jay Williams]

Yes.

[Sophie]

Pregame workout or pregame meditation? Sesh.

[Jay Williams]

Pregame workout.

[Sophie]

Did you work out before games?

[Jay Williams]

Yeah, that was my meditation.

[Sophie]

Okay.

[Jay Williams]

The workout was the meditation.

[West]

Watching a game on set or in seats?

[Jay Williams]

On set, yeah. On space. Just because I could talk to all my. We'll be able to talk.

[West]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

You know what I mean? Like, when I'm at a game, be like, oh, what do you think? I'm like, I. I stop. I'm watching the game with these people right here.

[West]

Facts.

[Sophie]

Respect.

[West]

All right, we're gonna switch a little bit.

[Sophie]

Oh.

[West]

You have been super outspoken about the wnba, which I. Big fan.

[Sophie]

Let's go, Jay.

[West]

Yeah, Just give us your thoughts. And why, like, why do you care so much? Because there's a lot of people in your position who, you know, they just want to stick on the men's side. But you have been a big supporter of us, so thank you.

[Jay Williams]

My pleasure. I mean, you're human beings.

[West]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Jay Williams]

You're human beings, and you play. You play a sport that is growing immensely, and, you know, sharing a piece of the pie is critical, I think, for a multitude of reasons. I think, number one, like, growing up, I played one of the first coaches I ever had. His name was Rich Leary, and he coached his team, the New Jersey Demons. And we had a girl on our team named Asia Jones. And asia played at UConn.

[West]

Yeah. I was gonna say, why do I know that?

[Jay Williams]

And she was an absolute savage. And we worked out all the time together. And my coach was so cool because basics were so part of the game. And I would see all these guys play, and it was always about running up and down and dunking. And he would be like, all right, Jay. Like, let's do ball handling. And I do it with, like, the girls. Yeah, right. And like, some of the girls, I'm like, her handle's better than mine. I need to work on my shoes.

[Sophie]

She talks about all the time how, like, the WNBA fundamentals are it's just better. I mean, yeah, it's better, but it

[West]

has to be, like, you guys are just way more athletic, where we. We have to have our fundamentals.

[Jay Williams]

So I learned that at a young age. And I think just being around a lot of women's players, like, I would hear, like, I would hear all these stories. Like, when I was in college, like, I would listen to sue, like, Sue Bird talk about, like, going over and what she had to do going overseas. Like, DT is an absolute beast. And I would watch Diane Tausi tell stories about going overseas. I'm like, wait, they can just cut your contract? And she's like, yeah, they just cut our contract. Whenever I would hear all these stories, and I'm like, yo, this is just. Just wild. I'm like, you're here. You play here for several months, and then you go over there, because you can make 3.4x with it. That's the way they treat you over there. It's just. So as you watch this sport grow and grow and grow. And also, I'll be real guys. I've always been passionate about it. And then, like, my oldest, like, is starting to love basketball. Yeah, she loves basketball. Right. So you start thinking about the future of the sport. I already thought about that way. But now, like, when I take my daughter to a Liberty game, and you're like, yeah, yeah. So, like, oh, I have a platform. And for me, like, once again, I don't like to see anybody taken advantage of. So, yeah, like, we're just gonna dive into the subject, and I'm gonna stand up for what I think is right. And I do. I was glad that you guys decided to take a stand.

[West]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

Because at some day, like, some point, you have to be the advocate for yourself.

[West]

Yep.

[Jay Williams]

Right. Because in any big business, they're gonna keep trying to. They say they're gonna do the right thing, but they're in the business to make profit. To make profit.

[West]

Like, I appreciate, and I think that it's really cool. And we talked a little bit about it with Alison Feaster when she was talking, because she's with the Boston Celtics. She does stuff with their front office, and she was like, I love that you're hearing more. Kobe kind of started the trend of it, I would say. You know, the. The orange sweatshirt. But, like, all the NBA guys and people who play at a high level, they love our sport and they respect it. It's cool when you see someone with your background, your platform, and now you have a daughter, and you're just even more invested because hopefully, us players now, when you. When it's her time to shine, it's way better than we could have ever imagined. You know what I mean? And so I think every little piece is important. And the cba, it was super important. It was huge. And we fought for, you know, our revenue share was the biggest thing. Our salary cap is way better, you

[Jay Williams]

know, so it's interesting, like, how the public frames something as opposed to what it actually is. Right? So, like, a lot of times for the W, it's like, I hear this come up a lot in commentary. Well, like, the NBA subsidizes, right? And you're like, oh, that's an investment. Like it should. Right. And the NBA is looking to get that investment back. And as you see this asset continue to grow and grow. That's why the meteorite steel was better.

[West]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

Right. So I think you're starting to see. And one of the things I hear a lot on is, like, academies. Like, I really think, guys, that we're moving toward day and age. Like, I sit on the board for overtime Elite, It's a really big company.

[West]

Oh, like sports academies?

[Jay Williams]

Yes. Oh, I think it's a really big. I think, in particular for women's basketball. It's gonna become bigger. Bigger and bigger and bigger.

[West]

Wait, I love this sort.

[Jay Williams]

Do you know David Leto? Yeah. David Leto used to be the assistant coach at UConn.

[West]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

What?

[Sophie]

Yeah, he was for a while. So he went to. Dave went to Rockbridge, where we went to high school.

[Jay Williams]

Wow. Yeah, I love Dave Lado.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

It's my all time. Please tell him I said it last.

[Sophie]

I absolutely will.

[Jay Williams]

So it's interesting when we talk about kids getting paid, Right? It's such a polarizing topic in college. You know, a lot of people say, well, you know, it takes away from the sport. I'm like, okay, well, it's been taken away from. Has it been taken away from tennis? Has been taken away from golf? Like, has it been taken away from overseas? Like, everybody gets into a conversation around Luka right now and his hamstring, Right? And they talk. I talk a lot about, as an athlete. Habits.

[West]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

Okay. Well, you become a pro, and you don't know what you don't know. Like, now, as a coach, I can mold your habits. Yeah, right. Luka's been a pro since he's been 14 years old. Yeah.

[West]

Yeah, valid.

[Jay Williams]

So a lot of his habits are habits that he's not gonna change. And he's been rewarded for those habits over and over. So, you know, in Europe, this Is a, this is a common thing. You could be a pro when you're 14. Look at all these academies in soccer.

[West]

Well, when you, when you are like a pro pro, they have kids who are 13, 14, that are kind of like our practice players who do get paid. And then they're just like developing them then to take our spots.

[Jay Williams]

Yes.

[West]

So it's. But it's smart. Smart. Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

So I look at this as trade school and I think it's gonna start happening. It's the same way when you think about in five years, where are gonna be some of the highest paying jobs, like plumbers.

[West]

Yep.

[Jay Williams]

Nobody wants to. So, like, at some point when you get your education, you guys both graduate from school, you're like, what did I major in?

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

Like, is it actually applicable to like anything I'm doing right now? If you want to be involved in sports, if you're a young girl, you want, you want to be a WNBA player, doesn't it make sense for you to learn about the business of basketball? You could be an agent, you could be a gm, you could be a president, you can be a lawyer for somebody. There's so many different jobs in Sports

[Sophie]

academy, not just training, but educational as well.

[Jay Williams]

One million percent. You're gonna change the whole curriculum.

[West]

Because the only reason why, and I know I speak for probably a lot of people, we knew that there were overseas players who didn't go to college because they were already getting paid. The only reason why I truly went to college is because that was the next step in America, to become a WNBA player, to become a pro. But also to your point, and I think social media, there's good things about it, there's bad things about it. But I also think that it's shown a lot of, I'm speaking on the female side of things, those types of jobs. Like growing up, I had no idea. I was like, I had no idea. I was like, oh, GM had no idea that we could do that. You know what I mean? You know nothing about it. They don't tell you anything about it. And so I feel like you go to college and you have to. In the sports world, it's either you're playing or you're, I don't know, you just don't get taught the sports business as much as I wish you would.

[Jay Williams]

So I just got done speaking at USA Basketball, like Jim Tooley and Sean Ford, they were in the men's program and I would do it with the women's too. So got a chance to be there three days ago. And literally asked them. They had like 40 players in a room. And I was like, okay, cool. Who in here wants to be top 10 NBA draft pick? Everybody raise their hand. Who in here wants to be the first pick taken in a draft? Everybody raised their hand. So I picked the one kid. I'm like, hey, you, stand up. He's like, great. Said his name. I'm like, all right, you want to be the first pick in a draft? He said, yes, sir. I said, cool. How much does the first pick in a draft make? He was like, I'm like, how do you want to be the first pick in the draft? And you don't know what the first pick in the draft makes? How much is your contract inflated by on an annual basis?

[West]

No one knows anything.

[Jay Williams]

I don't know anything. So then I take you to the exercise. I'm like, let's say you made a million dollars, right? You're 21 years old. You made a million dollars, right? Okay, great. You got drafted by Miami. You both live in Miami, right? Where are you gonna live? Yeah. And he's like, oh, I'm gonna live in my own high rise. I'm like, all right, cool. How much you gonna spend for your partner? He's like, $200,000. I was like, $200,000? No, it doesn't get you anything in Miami.

[West]

No.

[Jay Williams]

He's like, $800,000. I'm like, all right, cool. What kind of car are you going to drive?

[West]

Yes.

[Jay Williams]

And he's like, probably get, like, a Bentley. I'm like, all right, that's 250. I'm like, your mom and dad, have they been there for you your whole life? He's like, yeah. I'm like, how much are you going to spend in their house? He's like, a million dollars. I'm like, yo, you're already over. You're only netting $600,000.

[Sophie]

Bigger picture, would this be so that people don't have to also then waste money on other people to manage their money? If people just knew how to do it.

[Jay Williams]

You know how to ask the right questions or the right questions?

[West]

Facts. Yeah. And I think, like, we in our high school, which is crazy, we had financial advising, which was nice. And I think everyone should have to take that, especially kids who are getting paid that type of money. Take the financial courses. Like, know where your money's going. Know the tax. Like, another thing I didn't know. Everywhere we play, you get taxed in that state.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah.

[West]

Like, you get taxed in every. Every state. Cause we're an entertainment business. And so it's just like, little things like that.

[Jay Williams]

And it's all applicable, though. It's like when I go on the road road, and I use my points, my Marriott, like, Bonvoy. Like, reward points, like, so ESPN is putting me on the road all the time. I'm like, oh, I get a chance to stay at Marriott. I'll stay here, give them my number, get my points. And then when the season's over, I'm like, I could take my family on a vacation. It's about learning how to utilize your resources. But you have to know they're there. You have to be disciplined with it. But these are things that people have to teach you how to do. If not, they just go unnoticed.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[West]

Thousand percent. God, that's good.

[Sophie]

Hey, Jay, we love you so much.

[West]

We do.

[Jay Williams]

When we're not going to appreciate you guys.

[Sophie]

You have so much stuff to do today.

[Jay Williams]

You do business. You guys are both, like, rock stars. Seriously. Thank you.

[West]

Thank you.

[Jay Williams]

Keep doing your thing and keep being yourselves.

[West]

Thank you.

[Jay Williams]

It cuts through.

[Sophie]

Thank you.

[Jay Williams]

All these things don't really cut through.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

That's love.

[West]

Well, we appreciate that.

[Jay Williams]

Respect.

[Sophie]

So that about does it, Sadly.

[West]

Yeah. We had some really good guests, though.

[Sophie]

I know I keep saying this, but we literally cried during this experience.

[West]

We cried, we laughed, we found hope.

[Sophie]

Incredible guests.

[West]

Yes.

[Sophie]

Thank you to everyone who stopped by the Show Me Something podcast.

[West]

We love you, Lexi, Joel, Holly, Allison, and Jay. We really did have some great guests.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[West]

And I'll make friends of Marriott, too.

[Sophie]

If you ever are wondering what hotel to stay at when you're traveling, just watch the Holly Row episode. Favorite tournament memory from the last few weeks.

[West]

I think I'm gonna go with the historic one of Duke Yukon. Them getting this deal. Then he. He made it. So good for him. Freshman, though. He'll never forget that moment.

[Sophie]

No.

[West]

So that was a game Wonder. That was awesome. Awesome.

[Sophie]

I am going to keep it in the family because I. My only dog in the fight. Well, I guess Mizzou and Iowa.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

Representing the rest of my immediate family. But Iowa went on a little run, and so I got to send my brother a couple texts.

[West]

You know, I love that.

[Sophie]

That's actually. That's an underrated part of the tournament.

[West]

What?

[Sophie]

Because there's so many schools involved.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

You have, like, that one friend from, like, summer camp who went to, like, where the 15 seat is and, like, all our family's Mizzou. My brother. And, like, yeah, it's a fun little way to, like, keep tabs on all your friends and family home to like different schools. Thousand percent who are dancing.

[West]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

So that's much. But this was fun.

[West]

It was fun.

[Sophie]

Before we head out of here, we just want to say thank you to everyone who made this possible. Mostly Marriott and the fans. Legends.

[West]

We didn't even talk about the fans showing up in Phoenix. Oh yeah, Huge shout out to them too. That was a. That was a fun deal.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

First live pod.

[West]

Yeah, yeah. Oh I know.

[Sophie]

So many great memories. The crew behind this camera that you're

[West]

looking at right now, honestly.

[Sophie]

Yeah, a bunch of Legends.

[West]

The 2026 tournament is over, but we are not done yet. Mary Bonvoy is giving away another pair of tickets to the 2027 Men's and Women's Tour Championships.

[Sophie]

To enter for a chance to win, head to Show Me Something Pod on Instagram and comment what you want to see in the 2027 Final Four on any of our Live from the Bracket posts related to the sweepstakes.

[West]

And be sure to include the hashtag Live from the Bracket in our caption to be eligible.

[Sophie]

Full details in the episode description do not miss it.

[West]

No purchase necessary. Open to legal Residents of the 50 United States or D.C. who are at least 18 years old as of the date of entry ends April 15. [e-mail] Live from the Bracket Guys, thank

[Sophie]

you so much for watching Live from the Bracket with Show Me Something Podcast.

[West]

Thank you to Marriott, our guest and you fans.

[Sophie]

See you next year. This is awesome.

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[Sophie]

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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.