Sibling Melodies with Brothers Osborne

Summary

Sibling Melodies with Brothers Osborne - Detailed Summary

Episode Release Date: April 28, 2025
Host: Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson
Guest: Brothers Osborne (TJ Osborne and John Osborne)

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I. Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of Sibling Revelry, hosts Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson welcome the talented country duo, Brothers Osborne, comprising TJ Osborne and John Osborne. The conversation delves deep into the intricacies of sibling relationships, the challenges of growing up together, and the profound impact of family dynamics on their musical careers.

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II. The Osborne Brothers' Musical Journey

The episode kicks off with a discussion about the Osborne brothers' deep-rooted passion for music. TJ Osborne shares, "[03:43] 'We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and what it's like to be siblings,'" highlighting the foundation of their musical partnership.

John Osborne emphasizes the supportive environment provided by their Nashville-based team, stating, "[03:12] 'The Osborne bros... are very loved in Nashville.'" This support system has been pivotal in their rise within the country music scene.

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III. Sibling Dynamics and Therapy

A significant portion of the conversation centers around the brothers' decision to engage in therapy to strengthen their bond. Oliver Hudson recalls, "[27:29] 'We went to a therapist together. It was super, incredibly helpful.'" Both TJ and John discuss the initial reluctance and eventual appreciation for the therapeutic process.

TJ Osborne reflects on their communication struggles, mentioning, "[28:08] 'I'd rather have a normal conversation, not with a therapist.'" This candid admission underscores the challenges siblings often face in expressing vulnerabilities.

Oliver adds, "[32:03] 'The therapist said our fighting comes from us caring too much for each other.'" This insight was a turning point, helping them understand that their conflicts stemmed from a deep-seated love and commitment to one another.

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IV. Family Influence and Background

The brothers delve into their upbringing in Deal, Maryland, a small town that played a crucial role in shaping their musical identities. John Osborne shares, "[10:05] 'We were East Coast boys from a 4,000-person town, trying to make it in country music.'" This background instilled in them a strong work ethic and a deep appreciation for their roots.

They also discuss their family's influence, with parents who balanced multiple jobs while nurturing their musical talents. Oliver Hudson reminisces, "[25:00] 'Our dad was a plumber, and our mom was a hairdresser. They were always playing music at home.'" This environment fostered their love for music and perseverance.

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V. Coming Out and Its Impact on Career

A particularly poignant segment features Oliver Osborne sharing his journey of coming out as gay within the conservative country music industry. At [59:20], he states, "I have to do this now. My goal was to do it at the height of our career." This courageous decision was influenced by the unwavering support of his family and team.

Oliver candidly discusses the fears and challenges he faced, including backlash and fear of being misunderstood. However, he also highlights the overwhelming support from fans and progressive artists, which reinforced his resolve. "[66:57] 'The country music community at large is very receptive. Extremely so.'"

John Osborne adds, "[73:31] 'Coming out and in support of you made our relationship so much stronger.'" This mutual support not only strengthened their sibling bond but also paved the way for greater authenticity in their music.

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VI. Creative Process and Writing

The brothers explore their collaborative creative processes, noting a shift towards writing separately yet maintaining a cohesive sound. Oliver Hudson observes, "[52:33] 'This is oddly the most like, focused sounding music we've ever made.'" This approach allows them to infuse individual influences while preserving their signature harmony.

They also discuss their long-term collaboration with trusted songwriters like Lee Thomas Miller, who Oliver describes as, "[52:06] one of our favorite writers in the world... almost like the third brother or the third Beatle." These enduring partnerships have been instrumental in crafting their heartfelt lyrics and engaging melodies.

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VII. Reflections on Mental Health and Personal Growth

Mental health emerges as a critical theme, with the brothers acknowledging the importance of therapy and self-awareness. Cindy Crawford, acting as a representative for mental health services, interjects multiple times, reinforcing the episode's focus on emotional well-being.

TJ Osborne candidly discusses his struggles with alcoholism, sharing, "[05:27] 'I can't have two drinks. I have to have 20.'" This vulnerability opens up a conversation about addiction, recovery, and the ongoing journey toward self-improvement.

Oliver Hudson echoes the sentiment, emphasizing, "[35:00] 'It's important to... acknowledge our weaknesses.'" Their openness about personal challenges serves as an inspiration for listeners navigating similar struggles.

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VIII. Future Projects and Collaborations

Looking ahead, the brothers express excitement about upcoming projects, including their new album titled "Brothers Therapy". TJ Osborne humorously suggests, "[46:31] 'Brothers Therapy could be a good title for a new album.'" This album is poised to delve deeper into their sibling relationship and personal growth, offering fans an intimate glimpse into their lives.

They also discuss the possibility of expanding their musical ventures, hinting at potential collaborations and innovative projects that blend their unique styles.

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IX. Conclusion

The episode concludes on a high note, encapsulating the essence of sibling bonds and the transformative power of open communication. John Osborne reflects, "[38:38] 'There's nothing as important as understanding each other and growing together.'" This profound takeaway underscores the episode's central message: that love, understanding, and mutual support are the cornerstones of enduring relationships and successful collaborations.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• TJ Osborne: "[03:43] 'We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and what it's like to be siblings.'"
• Oliver Hudson: "[27:29] 'We went to a therapist together. It was super, incredibly helpful.'"
• TJ Osborne: "[59:20] 'I have to do this now. My goal was to do it at the height of our career.'"
• Oliver Hudson: "[66:57] 'The country music community at large is very receptive. Extremely so.'"
• John Osborne: "[73:31] 'Coming out and in support of you made our relationship so much stronger.'"

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Key Topics Covered

1. Sibling Relationships: Exploring the deep bond between brothers and the dynamics that come with growing up together.
2. Therapy and Communication: The role of therapy in strengthening sibling ties and improving communication.
3. Family Background: How upbringing and family professions influenced their music and work ethic.
4. Coming Out: Oliver Osborne's courageous journey of coming out in the country music industry and its impact.
5. Creative Process: Shifts in their songwriting approach and collaboration with trusted songwriters.
6. Mental Health: Open discussions about addiction, recovery, and the importance of mental well-being.
7. Future Projects: Insights into upcoming albums and potential future collaborations.

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Conclusion

"Sibing Melodies with Brothers Osborne" is a compelling episode that transcends typical celebrity interviews. It offers an authentic look into the lives of siblings navigating fame, personal challenges, and the pursuit of artistic integrity. Through honest dialogue and shared experiences, Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson successfully highlight the universal themes of love, resilience, and the enduring power of familial bonds.

Transcript

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[Oliver Hudson]

We're leaving today and entering a world of Cinderella, Castle sightseeing, Tron Light cycling, Jungle cruise, bunning, Pirate swashbuckling, Everest climbing Dapper Denning Danning, Dunning soaring, soaring fireworks show of I'm not crying, you're crying. World of Favorites for whatever you love, infinite worlds await at the most magical place on ear Walt Disney World Resort.

[Kate Hudson]

Take Me out to the Ball game.

[TJ Osborne]

What are you doing?

[Oliver Hudson]

Did you know DirecTV has the most MLB games?

[Kate Hudson]

So you're singing?

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, they put your favorite teams front and center right? When you turn it on, buy me.

[Oliver Hudson]

Some cold Cuts and Flapper Jacks.

[Kate Hudson]

Those aren't even the words. I'm allergic to peanuts.

[Oliver Hudson]

Stream DirecTV, home of the most MLB games. Visit DirectTV.com claim based on total games offered on sports networks. Availability varies by zip code and package. New customer service renews monthly unless you.

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[Kate Hudson]

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[TJ Osborne]

California Psychics all right, I just got back from shooting a movie in Toronto. Yeah, I was shooting a movie. Don't be so surprised. And I loved it, okay? Because believe it or not, I love the cold. I enjoy the cold. I'm with my son here, which is another amazing experience. We just had coffee this morning. We walked to our coffee shop, had a croissant and coffee and I cried. I had a blast experiencing the city off the set and cannot wait to go back. And if you also have some upcoming travel, you can consider hosting your home on Airbnb. Cause Airbnb has made hosts hosting even Easier with the co host feature where you can hire a co host to do the work for you. Find a co [e-mail] host.

[John Osborne]

Hi, I'm.

[TJ Osborne]

Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

[John Osborne]

We wanted to do something that highlighted.

[TJ Osborne]

Our relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are.

[Oliver Hudson]

A sibling rivalry.

[John Osborne]

No, no sibling rivalry. Don't do that with your mouth.

[TJ Osborne]

Sibling revelry.

[John Osborne]

That's good, Ollie. I'm really excited about this. The Osborne bros. The observation, the OB is the brothers Osborne actually are very loved in Nashville. And you know, my. My team, my all. My music team, they're all Nashville based. And I just got from my manager Jake, he was like, you're gonna love these guys.

[TJ Osborne]

Do you know them?

[John Osborne]

So let's bring them in. John. I don't. I don't know them at all, but I know that. I don't know if it's John or tj, but one of them is like, wants to be your best friend, and I think you're gonna love him. Yeah. I think we need to hang. I think you're gonna find it. Meet a new bestie. Welcome to the show.

[Oliver Hudson]

Good to be on the show.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah. This is very tempting. You know, I'm 10 days without a cocktail, which for me is like really four and a half years.

[Cindy Crawford]

Really?

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah. And no cigarettes, no alcohol. That's crazy for me.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, I. I've had some cigarettes, but I've been. I've been off the alcohol.

[Cindy Crawford]

Wait, did you quit cigarettes and alcohol at the same time?

[TJ Osborne]

No. Here's the thing. I don't. I. I'm weird. I. I don't smoke. If I don't drink, I need.

[Cindy Crawford]

Ah, there you go.

[TJ Osborne]

It's really interesting, you know what I mean? Like, I. If I have a. If. If liquor touches my lips, I'm like, where are my American spirits? You know?

[Cindy Crawford]

They are. They do pair well.

[TJ Osborne]

They do. They do. But.

[John Osborne]

My problem with cigarettes is it's coffee and cigarettes.

[TJ Osborne]

I used to be mine.

[John Osborne]

So I wake up and I'm like.

[Cindy Crawford]

Well, do you have a sit on a coffee in the morning?

[John Osborne]

I quit.

[TJ Osborne]

When I quit a long time ago. Yeah.

[John Osborne]

I have to say, I watched Oliver at the family barbecue this Sunday. Watch our brother smoke. Our other brother smoke. And I was really impressed that you didn't have a cigarette.

[TJ Osborne]

No.

[Cindy Crawford]

No.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, here's the thing. Like, I don't know, lowercase. A alcoholic. I'm not sure what I am. Right. But. But I drink. I drink too much. Meaning when I do drink, I can't have two drinks. I have to have 20. You know what I mean?

[Cindy Crawford]

Like, I feel you.

[TJ Osborne]

I cannot just go two and hey, cool, we're good. I have to have 20 drinks and 80 cigarettes rather than two drinks and two cigarettes.

[Cindy Crawford]

I don't understand when people, they're like, I quit drinking, so I'm drinking non alcoholic beer. It's like, what, why you do. Why, why would you do that?

[TJ Osborne]

Forget it.

[Cindy Crawford]

Just like, I just want the calories.

[TJ Osborne]

No, forget it.

[John Osborne]

I. I feel like it's because I feel like if you got into the art of the drink, then maybe you, you would enjoy one drink and not five of them.

[TJ Osborne]

I guess, I guess, like if you.

[John Osborne]

Like took the time to make a Negroni or like a paper plane.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, But I make 10. I make 10 Negroni.

[Oliver Hudson]

That's the thing, is all. But that's like. Yes. I mean, that could be maybe very into our problem. But at the same time, like, I, I'm of the mind. Like, if I almost. Why go kind of part of the way?

[TJ Osborne]

Like, I just, I'm right there with you. And, and by the way, I'm a great drunk. Meaning I can have 78 drinks. No one's going to know I'm drunk. That's.

[John Osborne]

That's because you're drunk. Okay, I can tell you. I can tell you I have moments with Oliver where sometimes I'm like, no, you, you.

[Oliver Hudson]

Okay.

[John Osborne]

And he's like, yeah, yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

You know, I'm guessing though that. Are you a happy drunk? I'm a happy drunk.

[TJ Osborne]

I'm very happy. I'm fun happy. I have the best time ever.

[Cindy Crawford]

You know, Problem is, if. So if you're an alcoholic and you're a problem for someone else, yeah, I think that's really bad. But if you're only really a problem for yourself.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, that's true. You know, by the way, I love this rationale. We're redefining alcoholism.

[John Osborne]

This is so problematic. Oh, man. You know, I sometimes think about like, our, our grandparents generation. They were all alcoholics. They drank every night. I mean, my grandma drank a scotch and water at least two every night.

[Oliver Hudson]

Our dad is everyone. He's actually fine. I'll preface it with this. But he had a little bit of cancer. And dad went through radiation treatment. And everyone was like, how's your dad doing? And I'm like, well, he's doing these, this radiation treatment. But I think the thing that's really killing him isn't the radiation treatment is the fact that he can't drink beer. Why?

[John Osborne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, this is no fun.

[Oliver Hudson]

When he had his last radiation treatment, they all went to the hospital to, you know, bring balloons and. But the. His gift was a 18 pack of Coors Light.

[TJ Osborne]

Amazing. Amazing.

[John Osborne]

I'm glad he's okay.

[TJ Osborne]

Then we'll get off the alcohol, but. But I was just skiing and the Coors light, you know, I would wake up, and I was in Montana, and I'd have, like, three Coors lights and a couple fireball shots, and then go the mountain. And then I'm like, fuck, yes, it is time to ski, baby. And then I. Yeah. And then I hit the. And then I have lunch and have, like, a few gin and tonics, and I'm like, fuck, yeah. And then get home after skiing and then make a couple, like, tequila sodas and smoke a thousand cigarettes. I'm like, it's the best fucking day ever.

[Cindy Crawford]

It is.

[TJ Osborne]

And then. And then after day seven, I'm like, I feel like shit. And it's time to, like. I'm almost 50. I gotta get it together, you know? And it's been 10 days. And the thing is, I've. You never. I've never felt. You never felt better. I mean, you feel incredible. You feel so good that you need a drink.

[Cindy Crawford]

That's the thing. It's like.

[TJ Osborne]

I think it's like I was like. I don't feel hungover. I feel amazing. Like, I need right now.

[Cindy Crawford]

How can you possibly be better? I know. A drink.

[Oliver Hudson]

Exactly.

[TJ Osborne]

Exactly.

[John Osborne]

I think we need to get rich. Roll on this program. I think it's time you have a counselor.

[TJ Osborne]

I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.

[John Osborne]

It's gonna be Osborne brother now. Are you guys in Nashville right now? Where are you?

[Oliver Hudson]

We are. Yeah. This is. We're right downtown Nashville. This is our manager. This is his office.

[John Osborne]

I was with Jake Basden last night, who just loves you guys. Who's my manager.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yes. And I saw him a few weeks ago at. There's a really great sushi restaurant here In Nashville called 888. He was at the bar, and we kind of had known each other for a while, but I had forgotten that he was your manager. And then I guilted him into guilting you guys into making. No, I'm glad it'll work.

[John Osborne]

I'm so happy. But wait, is 888. Is 888 the place that does the vinyl night? They do vinyl? Oh, I had sushi. I love that place.

[Cindy Crawford]

It's really good.

[John Osborne]

So good. So you guys are from Maryland?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, we're East Coast. East coast, boys. We. You know, I think that's, like. Was the weirdest thing for everyone's, like, how the hell do you get in a country music band from Maryland? But it's like, we're like, little. We were on the Chesapeake Bay, a little small water town called deal. It's like 4,000 people. And, you know, that's. Yeah, that's it. That's where we're from.

[TJ Osborne]

Good flounder fishing.

[John Osborne]

Is there.

[Oliver Hudson]

Stripe ass.

[TJ Osborne]

Stripe ass. Some stripers. Yeah. I'm a huge fisherman. I have a boat. I catch big tuna. I'm gonna go. I'm. Yeah, I'm obsessed.

[Oliver Hudson]

Have you gone fishing around there?

[TJ Osborne]

Southern California is amazing. The last 10 years, those big bluefin have just come in through their sort of migration patterns. And so every year around June, actually, right now, they're starting to show up. You get big, you know, 200, 300 pounders, like 40 miles offshore from.

[Cindy Crawford]

How are you going to do that without drinking?

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, I haven't done that yet, by the way. I'm not quitting drinking, but I. I haven't. I haven't been on my boat yet this season, so, you know, we'll see. We'll see.

[John Osborne]

I want to go out this year. I have. I've never been on your boat.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, it's great.

[John Osborne]

Should we do a podcast from your boat?

[TJ Osborne]

Oh, yeah, that'll be interesting.

[Cindy Crawford]

You know, the weird thing. The sad. The sad reality is that TJ and I get horrifically seasick.

[TJ Osborne]

We do.

[Cindy Crawford]

Well, like, on the bay, if it's not too choppy.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

And.

[Cindy Crawford]

But we went. We were in Key west, and we went fishing for mahi mahi, which was great fishing, by the way.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

I'm sure you've done it. But if. If I. If I can't see land anymore, it is full on bunder fest. And of course, we were hungover. We were partying for a couple days.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

And at one point, TJ and I were both sitting on a cooler, and we're out with some friends and some strangers, and we were sitting next to each other on a cooler. He would throw up, and we would switch, come back. I would throw up. We would swish, switch, and I would go fish, and it was fun. About an hour, and then I never do it again.

[TJ Osborne]

There's nothing worse than being seasick. It's just fucking horrendous. And by the way, when you're hungover and seasick, it. You cannot get worse than that. Yeah. Yeah.

[John Osborne]

I don't.

[TJ Osborne]

We.

[John Osborne]

We don't really get seasick? You.

[TJ Osborne]

I don't get seasick. The only time I see sick. I took a boat up from LA up to Vancouver, and we were in Morro Bay and tide went on that night and had to get up at like 4am to get out of the, you know, the inlet and all that. And I was like, oh. And I was done.

[Oliver Hudson]

You took a boat from LA to Vancouver?

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah. I mean, I didn't drive it. I was. I was on the boat helping sort of my dad. Yeah, it was incredible. I had the best.

[Oliver Hudson]

I'm sure it was incredible. But like, I'd be like, bring in a helicopter.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

Is it Maryland? That is the Mason Dixon Line. I mean, not too far from. Right.

[Cindy Crawford]

You're kind of like very good geography buff over here.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

You're kind of just like, just south of it.

[Oliver Hudson]

We're.

[Cindy Crawford]

We're like technically south of the Mason Dixon Line, but we're far enough north where we don't really give a Mason Dixon.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, I think it's like, was maybe, I think, kind of perfect for us, though, because, you know, like, even in like, country, it's like, you know, we're not like the most country. We're not really rock. We're kind of in this, like, in between, like, what are we, you know, and up there it's like. Yeah. If you're from the north, everyone considered you from the south, and everyone from the south considered you from the North. It was like we were kind of being in like, no man's land a little bit.

[John Osborne]

Well, you know, our mom. Our mom's from Maryland. Yeah. From Takoma Park, Maryland. Kind of outside of D.C. i did not know that.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, that makes me happy. The only other person I knew from Maryland was like, Tony Paxton. So this is really like Tony Hawk.

[Cindy Crawford]

A lot of Tonys from there.

[TJ Osborne]

Oh, yeah. Went to Blair. Blair High School.

[Oliver Hudson]

I would be shocked if your mom had this or gave a two shits about it. But, you know, Maryland, it's the other thing. I didn't realize this growing up there, but our bass player at the time was like, man, he's like the only other state I've seen have like, the Texas Pride where it's stickers and all of the. The. The fanfare around it. He's like, it's Maryland. And I'm like, no, no way. And then I started thinking about it and we are kind of really oddly crazy about like, our state flag. Like, there's the really classic thing. I was just in Phoenix a couple of days ago and I was like, oh, my God, it's a crab that has the Maryland flag, like, on it. And it's just, like, a weird thing that no one would have a single clue what it's about. When you're from Maryland, you're like, I will defend that person to the death. Oh, them. They got into road rage incident. Right now I'm getting out with that. Like, you know, I'm gonna ask mom.

[John Osborne]

About it, but my mom. Actually, my. My mom and my. So our family is basically that side. They were the only ones that were kind of a little bit north, whereas everyone else was. Was Arkansas. And Nashville.

[Cindy Crawford]

And Nashville.

[John Osborne]

Yeah. So most of the Hans are actually in Nashville.

[TJ Osborne]

They are.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

The.

[TJ Osborne]

Is going on. But we didn't. Wait a minute.

[Oliver Hudson]

But.

[TJ Osborne]

But they didn't. That wasn't. They would. They didn't live in that. They're there now. They live in Nashville, like.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

So. So. So Granddaddy.

[Cindy Crawford]

I know.

[TJ Osborne]

The whole world is opening up.

[Oliver Hudson]

Wait a minute.

[John Osborne]

Our granddaddy is Arkansas?

[TJ Osborne]

Yes.

[John Osborne]

He moved to Maryland because he was a musician.

[TJ Osborne]

Yes.

[John Osborne]

And that's where he had all of his.

[Oliver Hudson]

Right.

[TJ Osborne]

But the horns were still Arkansas, so.

[John Osborne]

No. So. So he had five brothers. They all grew up in Arkansas, but they went. Two stayed in Arkansas. Sorry. Only Uncle Dag was Arkansas. And the other three went to. Brothers went to Nashville, and our granddaddy went to Maryland.

[TJ Osborne]

Oh, so they went. They were in Nashville.

[John Osborne]

Little Han history.

[Cindy Crawford]

That's wicked. Wait, on the other side of the family, you have musicians as well, right?

[John Osborne]

Yeah, but just, like, Italian.

[TJ Osborne]

Italian. Oregon Italian Mark.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

I. I was in a band years ago and had written a bunch of.

[Oliver Hudson]

Songs all about this. Wow.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, Kate needs to. Her career needs to keep going and take off in the music world. Then she'll sort of bring me along. I'll do some cuts. I'll do some background vocals, and then, bang, I get a feature.

[John Osborne]

I found. I found a freestyle that Oliver did and sent it to me called the Palisades, and I literally was. Listen, I was going through all my old mute, like, old music, and I found it. I have it.

[Cindy Crawford]

It's in there. Dude, you got.

[John Osborne]

It's in there. We could release it.

[Cindy Crawford]

Sidebar. Were you both okay after the fires? You guys are all right?

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

I mean, fortunately. Yeah. I'm. I was right on the edge. We. I just got in this week back into my house.

[Oliver Hudson]

Oh, wow.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[TJ Osborne]

Our. Our brother had a mishap. Yeah.

[John Osborne]

Yeah. His house burnt down.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

But, you know, it's been so weird, honestly, like, the whole Experience has been quite something.

[Cindy Crawford]

I bet.

[Oliver Hudson]

I can't imagine. I bet.

[John Osborne]

Okay, wait, when I was.

[Cindy Crawford]

This is all edited out material. When we go there. We, Mary Steenburgeon and Ted Danson are like really close friends of ours. So we stay with them in the Palisades every time we go there. Apparently their house is okay, but they said it's like, just like a bomb went off. It's so sad.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, I mean, I, I was saying before, I, you know, I've said this a million times. But the worst, the only thing worse than having your house burned down is the one that's standing. You know what I mean?

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah.

[TJ Osborne]

Like in it, within all the rubble, you know, you have, you see these one house and you're just like, I. I don't want that anymore. Holy. What am I supposed to do? I can't, I can't sell it. I can't collect the insurance. I can't move back in. Like, what am I supposed to do here?

[Oliver Hudson]

I know.

[TJ Osborne]

You know.

[Cindy Crawford]

You got it.

[Oliver Hudson]

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[T-Mobile Representative]

No trendspotter has to deal with Trendspotty service because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch. Up to four lines via virtual prepaid card will have 15 days qualified and unlocked device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Oliver Hudson]

What's Good fam the Black Effect Podcast Festival is back and taking over Pullman Yards in Atlanta on Saturday, April 26 and it's gonna be a whole vibe. Doors open at 11am so you already know it's an all day celebration of Black excellence and we're partnering with Nissan to bring you an event you won't wanna miss cause it's all going down in the Nissan Lounge. If you haven't seen the all new 2025 Nissan Kicks or the Nissan Rogue yet, this is your moment. From available Intelligent around view monitor to available Bose Personal plus sound system, the all new Nissan Kicks is ready. Whether you're cruising through the city or hitting the highway, the Nissan Rogue S is more affordable than CR V and RAV4 with available HD enhanced intelligent around view monitor with moving object detection and a standard VC turbo engine. So pull up to the Nissan Lounge to explore their cutting edge features, snap some epic pics and see which ride matches your energy, music, love, culture and community all in one place. So come through, show out and make some memories. Tickets are on sale [e-mail] podcast festival.

[Kate Hudson]

When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song and all the PDA looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California Psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one. We guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty.

[California Psychics Representative]

California Psychics hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you but like I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age? Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.

[John Osborne]

So you're you. You grew up in a family of musicians. Your family? Parents. Musicians as well.

[Oliver Hudson]

They were. And you know they both tried to come to Nashville and, and write. I mean they wrote a bunch of really cool songs that were actually, we talked about like re recording them like in a more professional setting.

[TJ Osborne]

But that's cool.

[Oliver Hudson]

I know, it would be really cool. Yeah, you just kind of grow up around It. We didn't really know any different. We didn't know that it was an unusual thing to kind of later in life. But, you know, when I look back now, I mean, how hard it was for us to kind of get started doing it. I mean, they had five kids and they were like, you know, our dad's a plumber, mom's a hairdresser. I mean, they were like, you know, they were paycheck to paycheck at best. So, I mean, them coming down here and still trying to make it happen. So when we little kids and I actually posted a video about this yesterday, there's this little thing I found where it was like, basically, I can't. It was a. This video of this videographer, like this, like, his, like, really cute parents, and they're his. The. The kids like filming, and it's like, really low quality, and they're like, keep doing it. You're such. You're so good at this. And then it fast forwards to him later in life and he's, like, shooting professional films. It made me cry because I was like, this reminds me of our childhood. Like, we didn't have anything, but our parents believed in us. And they were like, you got this. You guys are really good. When we were terrible. And it definitely gave us the confidence to keep going and doing this. But, yeah, I mean, having that background is absolutely the driver, I think.

[TJ Osborne]

Were you actually terrible or you just thought you were.

[Oliver Hudson]

No, I would.

[Cindy Crawford]

I mean, I wouldn't say, actually, I think.

[Oliver Hudson]

I mean, when we were little, it wasn't great. It wasn't great.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, how old is little? How old is little?

[Cindy Crawford]

Told 10, 11, 12.

[TJ Osborne]

Okay, well, so you're little. Little meaning, like, you shouldn't be that dope yet.

[Oliver Hudson]

Right.

[Cindy Crawford]

But I love that they were like.

[Oliver Hudson]

You know, they would have, like, everyone stop and listen and be like, yeah, the song. And we would come and it's like, you know, it was just. I mean, probably cute to them, I guess sometimes they would laugh and because I think it was cute, I thought it was cute. But when I was like, eight, I was like, what the. Like, laugh at me, like, performance here.

[Cindy Crawford]

TJ's voice also dropped when he was like, nine years old.

[TJ Osborne]

Right.

[Cindy Crawford]

I was going through puberty and I was like, talking up here. He's three years younger than me. He's like, what's up, man? Yeah, so he was just kind of destined for glory. To glory.

[Oliver Hudson]

Anyway, so. But back to your original question. Yeah, we grew up. We kind of. I think, like, the first thing we wanted to accomplish was like our dad, his brother, and our cousin Johnny, like were the three people. They would always sit around at the kitchen table and play originals. They might do like Bob Seeger covers or something. And we always wanted to join in, but they would not let us join unless we really took it seriously. And so we like, what we wanted was a literal seat at the table in our kitchen to just play with our uncle and our dad and our cousin. And that's kind of where it started. And then they were, I mean some of them were like our, our cousin, you know, Johnny, like, he was tough, you know, he wasn't just going to, you know, give you a pat on the back for for nothing. I mean you had to actually impress them. And so it really, it raised the bar for us. And that was like our first, first goal.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

Did you have a piano in the house or was it all guitar?

[Cindy Crawford]

You did have a piano in the house. And we were wretched. I still have a piano in the house. My wife's a really good piano player. I'm wretched. But guitar was the thing. We always had guitars laying around and our dad would play just, you know, it was just always there. It was never in your house. And it's one of those things when you grow up that way you think it's normal and it's really not that normal. It's not normal there to do music all the time. So I do feel very lucky in that fact. And having parents that support what you want to do is also something that you realize isn't that common as well. I feel like we could have decided to be anything between an astronaut to a mime. And our parents were like, you got a kid? So that kind of encouragement was really helpful.

[John Osborne]

They sound awesome.

[Cindy Crawford]

I know they are. They're wild.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, we're very, very loud.

[John Osborne]

Tell me more, tell me more. Like what? What? So.

[TJ Osborne]

So we free spirited, huh? I mean, just sort of.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah. 100. Yeah.

[John Osborne]

So like you grew up like they were the kind of parents. I'm just assuming that like they were the kind of parents that like would have parties and be hanging out and you never felt like you were. Had to be in another room. It was just like a big.

[Oliver Hudson]

They were open like again, they couldn't afford a babysitter or anything like this. So they went out to party. They would just bring us with them and then some person's house till whenever they decided to go home and we would just hang out like. And so we never really hang out with kids that much. We hung out with people who were like, you know, our age. And, you know, I think again, it was like, then my dad would break out the guitar and then he'd be like, you know, John, I think one of his first accomplishments was just learning the chords the Freebird and, you know, the power cords and everyone's like, watch him play, you know. And so it was. Yeah, it was.

[TJ Osborne]

Were you guys always tight growing up?

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah, yeah, they're very close. Yeah, we. So we slept in bunk beds. We grew up.

[Oliver Hudson]

We slept in the same bed, you know.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah. Same womb and. But yeah, we had. We have bunk beds until I grad graduated high school. And then the great irony of that being you fast forward until about 15 years ago, we're back on the bus and. But yeah, you know, I mean, we're very, very close. Very, very tight. You know, we. We love and adore each other like brothers. We also fight like brothers, but, you know, in terms of sibling bands, we're doing pretty well. We're not going to do the, you know, the Oasis, Gallagher brothers thing anytime soon. It's come close.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, I was going to ask guys this, actually, before the start, I was curious. Like, I don't know, like was, you know, we, John and I, we've been open about this. We've talked about it in articles before, I guess, but, you know, there was a time where we went. We did like a couple's there. We, like went to a therapist together. We were real hard and people would be like, a couple. I'm like, I know it sounds weird, but it was like super, incredibly helpful. I don't know if that's.

[Cindy Crawford]

Wow, cool.

[John Osborne]

I did that was all over once. It was a failed attempt.

[Cindy Crawford]

It's hard for the other person when you're always right. Am I wrong about this?

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah. I just let Kate have her thing and, you know, I'm like, no, Oliver, Oliver, why did we have a therapy?

[John Osborne]

Oliver can't handle when I feel hurt and have to express it to him. No, it's like he can't deal with it. He's like, no, I'm not dealing with this. I can't deal with it. I feel. Already I feel too much guilt, too much shame for being a terrible brother. And now that you feel hurt, I just don't want to hear it.

[TJ Osborne]

No, it's too formal. I don't like communicating like a therapist. Meaning, like, I feel that you did this and it makes me feel this way and I'd rather have a normal conversation, not with a therapy. Right, exactly.

[John Osborne]

Well, thank you for asking.

[TJ Osborne]

And then. And then on top. And then on top of it. I get this from Kate all the time, which, you know, it's an. It's impossible to penetrate. Hey, Kate. You know, I just. Here's my thing. I feel like sometimes you can be condescending to me, and you make me feel like I'm not good enough or whatever I'm saying.

[John Osborne]

And so you feel that way.

[TJ Osborne]

And then she goes, exactly. She goes, well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm like, I am.

[John Osborne]

I hate it. I hate it.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, but that's such a bullshit.

[John Osborne]

What do you want me to say?

[TJ Osborne]

There is no taking accountability. That's not taking accountability for someone's feelings. It's just saying, well, I'm Right. But I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Cindy Crawford]

I'm sorry.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

Sorry.

[TJ Osborne]

You're such a. Idiot. Loser. Right, Right. Exactly.

[Oliver Hudson]

I'm just.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm like, what? No.

[John Osborne]

Well, what else are you gonna say? I.

[TJ Osborne]

You're supposed to say, oh, wow, like, I didn't really think that I was making you feel like that, and I would never want to hurt.

[John Osborne]

Yeah, but it doesn't. No, of course not. Of course not. But it doesn't change the experience how your. Your experience. No, it doesn't. So my thing is, it's like, if I have a boundary. If I have a boundary, or if I have a point of view and it's not liked or it's not appreciated, or it makes you feel bad, then you're in that sort of thing where it's like, I hate that this makes you feel bad, but that is my boundary.

[TJ Osborne]

No, but you also have to take accountability. That maybe look inward and say, well, what did I do to make him or whoever feel that way? Maybe I'm the issue.

[John Osborne]

I gave you half.

[Cindy Crawford]

Guys, I deserved.

[TJ Osborne]

It was my idea. It was my idea.

[Cindy Crawford]

I just want to say, this is beautiful.

[John Osborne]

I gave you the money.

[TJ Osborne]

It was my idea.

[Cindy Crawford]

I made a lot of progress here, guys. I'm very proud.

[TJ Osborne]

Thank you, guys.

[John Osborne]

Listen, I'm so glad we had you on.

[Cindy Crawford]

Therapist.

[John Osborne]

You guys. I already can't wait to hang out with you one day. I'm so excited.

[Cindy Crawford]

Hold on.

[TJ Osborne]

I want to get into brothers therapy, which could be a good title for a new album, by the way, but, you know, brothers therapy. How was. That's interesting. I've never. How did that go?

[John Osborne]

Oh, it's 11. Eleven.

[TJ Osborne]

Means nothing.

[Oliver Hudson]

Good. I mean, here's the thing. We kind of. We. We were like, really at it. Like, we couldn't even. There was a moment we literally could not be in the same room with each other without.

[TJ Osborne]

From a creative place. It did start with a. From a creative place.

[Oliver Hudson]

I think a lot of things creative probably mixed in with like shit when we were five. I don't know. Yeah, but like the. The one thing that was really interesting though, without going too far into it and boring the hearers of everyone listening to this is we were like pissed. And when we sat down with a therapist, he was like, man, he's like, this is awesome. And I was like, what do you mean this is awesome? Like, we could angry. And he was like, well, he's like, you guys are so pissed off because you care so much. Like, if you all came in here and you were apathetic and you didn't care at all, he's like, that would be a huge problem and really challenging to fix. He's like, you guys, really. The reason why you're fighting with each other is because you guys love each other so much.

[Cindy Crawford]

I was like, damn, that's some dead eye mind.

[Oliver Hudson]

What the hell was that? I do kind of like, you know now I do a lot of times, not always. We get. We still get into it, believe me, but I do. There are most right to be like, you know what? Okay, we're getting. We're good. This is getting like we're button heads because we care.

[TJ Osborne]

Hold on, take me back to the moment of who was the one who said, you know what, brother? I think we should go to couples therapy? Like, who said that? Who?

[Cindy Crawford]

I'm not sure. I know. At the time I was doing their manager. Yeah, like likely. Yeah, it's all running on the wall. They're like, well, 16 of 0 is 0, so we gotta figure this. So I don't know. At the time, I was already doing a lot of therapy. I've been very open about my mental health and stuff like that. I have dealt with anxiety and I've come leaps and bounds. It's been really, really great.

[TJ Osborne]

Me too. Me too. Me too. But I'm on Lexapro, so.

[Cindy Crawford]

Oh, really? I am on Cymbalta, so, like, it's been amazing for me.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, my antidepressant's better than yours, so fuck off.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah, no, you're antidepressant. Well, I'm still drinking. Maybe that's a problem. I'm still drinking. You beat alcoholism.

[TJ Osborne]

Shit.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yours is better than mine. And anyway, so. But I was. I did a lot of work and it was really, really helpful. So and there's a really great thing in Nashville called Porter's Call, who help a lot of musicians and artists for free, and it's funded by artists in Nashville. That's great because, you know, when you're up and coming, you're just. You're struggling, and you can't afford the time or the money to deal with your mental health. So there was a guy there that I had known for a long time, and I just knew he was always really great, and that's who we met with, this guy named Chad Hunter. He is a godsend in the mental health community of Nashville, and it was really, really great. Of course, I left there being like, he didn't tell my brother he was wrong one time. But, you know, when you really do think about it, it's like, he's right. Our intentions are the same. We want it to be great. And then, you know, so you guys look like amazing siblings and you truly do love each other, but there are moments where it rubs. Right. Well, just imagine that you're pursuing a music career together. That rub just happens a lot, and a lot of times it stems from just lack of honest communication, and that allowed us to be just a little bit more forthcoming with how you feel, and that's been a huge help.

[John Osborne]

That's so good.

[Oliver Hudson]

Great.

[TJ Osborne]

Was it a vulnerability issue? Meaning, like, being able to be truly vulnerable with each other beyond just making music and with your feelings and say.

[Oliver Hudson]

Hey, you know what?

[TJ Osborne]

This is how I feel.

[Oliver Hudson]

But, you know, you actually. You touched on this a little bit earlier, and I agree. I agree with you. It seems like this. Oh, it's like. Like, poofy, like, way of dealing with it. But the actual. When you do just say, like, hey, it is. You do. It doesn't make me feel this way. Yeah, it's not reason why. I mean, at least for me, that does work very well. Is.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's not accusing them of doing something. It could be on me that I feel this way.

[TJ Osborne]

Yes.

[Cindy Crawford]

I'm feeling.

[Oliver Hudson]

And I may be totally irrational.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, buddy, I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Oliver Hudson]

That made me feel so good.

[TJ Osborne]

Okay, good.

[Oliver Hudson]

Anyhow, without going on and on about it, we highly recommend just for anyone individually.

[TJ Osborne]

No, I love this stuff. I think it's important. I mean, I talk about it all the time.

[Oliver Hudson]

We've actually wanted to do with our whole family.

[TJ Osborne]

Oh, my gosh.

[Oliver Hudson]

Opportunity to do that. That. That would be a lot of work.

[TJ Osborne]

Imagine that.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah. But. But at the same time, I feel like it's. It's kind of more scary than it is because it is going to be hard work. But I feel like the outcome of it, it seems like it would be really, I don't know. It's like getting on a roller coaster.

[T-Mobile Representative]

With T Mobile. No trendspotter has to deal with Trendspotty service because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualifying unlocked device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required Card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Kate Hudson]

When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song and all the PDA looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California Psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one we guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty.

[California Psychics Representative]

California Psychics hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like I never liked being told oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty, Beautiful skin at every age. Learn [e-mail].

[Oliver Hudson]

We'Re leaving today and entering a world of Cinderella, Castle sightseeing, Tron Light cycling, Jungle cruise, Bunning, Pirate swashbuckling, Everest climbing Dapper Denning Soaring, soaring. Fireworks show of I'm not crying, you're crying. World of Favorites for whatever you love, infinite worlds await at the most magical place on earth. Walt Disney World Resort.

[Cleveland Clinic Representative]

From prioritizing time to keep our bodies active to simply creating space to check on our well being. Happiness Lab listeners take their health very seriously. But when it comes to treating complex issues like heart disease, neurological disorders, or even cancer, the right care can make all the difference. That's why Cleveland Clinic has been elevating world class patient care for over a century. Whether they're raising the bar in heart care, uncovering the mysteries of the brain, or researching New treatments for cancer. Cleveland Clinic continues to redefine what's possible for every breakthrough in health, for every care in the world. Explore a wide array of health and wellness information by visiting clevelandclinic.org today.

[John Osborne]

Isn't it amazing, though, the freedom there is in just, like, being okay to allow someone to just be who they are?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, I know.

[John Osborne]

Like, without.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

Without carrying any personalization or without taking it on, just to just kind of be like, it's okay.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, I really have to do that with my parents, you know, like, because, look, they're not. They're in their 70s. They're not changing. You know, like, it's like, okay, mom, that is so not something we say anymore. But, you know, we're like, hey, you don't have a ton of time left here.

[John Osborne]

Yeah, you. You do. And you. You realize, like, also, like, I think, like, I really. I'm a big believer in the three generational household. And we grew up in a three generational household. So we had grandma and we had mom, and, you know, we. So we, you know, we grew up with grandma down in the kitchen every morning and. And their stories, their way of living, their perspective is so different from ours. But then it's so important to understand it, whether you let. Whether you agree with it or not, whether it's like, to have, like, a. What. There's so. There's so much wisdom in it, whether it's something to change or whether it's something to continue on, you know, But.

[Cindy Crawford]

I think that's only. I think that's an amazing perspective to have, but that's only something you realize when you grow up and mature, you know, as a kid. You'll get me the hell out of here. This is crazy. And you grow up and realize actually how formidable and important those things are. I think one of the weirdest things growing up and becoming an adult is when you realize that your parents are just people and not parents. You know, when you're a kid, you think, oh, this is my mom and dad. They're superheroes. They can do anything. And then you realize, oh, no, they're just people just trying to figure shit out, awakening. And then you can really start to respect them as the people they are versus having to respect them as parents. And the same thing goes for anyone, like, you know, a grandmother or grandfather. When we were kids, like I said, we lived in a duplex, and our dad's mom lived next door with our uncle and their kids. So that was a three generational thing. And she was just A. She was a bad bitch, man. She was tough. She smoked like all the time. She drank Michelob heavy like all day, played cards, watched. She was a huge fan of the Washington Redskins.

[TJ Osborne]

Oh my God, I'm like a Mary Washington Redskins sweatshirt.

[Cindy Crawford]

A bad bitch. And then when you're around that as a kid growing up, you realize like, oh man, that's like there's, that's a type of tough that you have to kind of witness at that age.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Like every, everyone's grandparents had these. It was like really huge, random like fork and spoon that was made out of wood.

[John Osborne]

That's so funny. Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.

[Oliver Hudson]

But every time, man, she would grab that big ass spoon and we were like.

[Cindy Crawford]

She would whip your ass.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

But she grew up tough. And this goes to your point, Kate, that being subjected to those, those different generations allows you the perspective that you need. Because even just the fact that our great, our grandparents and great grandparents lived in times of actual war, you know.

[Oliver Hudson]

And it just changes you.

[Cindy Crawford]

It changes you and how you are and how you raised and they pass that down.

[John Osborne]

Yeah. And I also think that's why history too is so important. But knowing your own history, like it is a part of like who you, you wonder, like, where do I get my grit? Like where does that really come from? You know? Yeah, right. But, but also like I. We drive to Colorado all the time and this last time I drove, I just had this, this like thing about America where it's like we're so crazy that we decided in order for a better life to drop everything we have and risk, risk traveling hundreds of miles with wagons and horses to like, for our half of our family to, to, to perish for a, for a bet for more people are doing that and they're still doing. Yeah, it just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just, it's amazing to know, you know, how. And that wasn't that long ago.

[TJ Osborne]

You know, semi. I, semi recently just finished a book called Undaunted Courage, which is about Lewis and Clark and it's a thousand page about their entire expedition and how it's incredible. I mean it's just unbelievable.

[Cindy Crawford]

Read really amazing all the things that had to go right in order for that to happen. Yeah, you know, it, you know it's. So much of it is happenstance. It's just kind of all happened and then, you know, it's like you go out and your parents, Your parents.

[Oliver Hudson]

Parents.

[Cindy Crawford]

Their parents. Parents. You Keep going back. I mean, you remember playing Oregon Trail as a kid? I just felt like dysentery was fucking everywhere. Everyone was, you know, and, like, your ancestors, just, like, I just kind of avoided dysentery and. And, you know, like, there have been plagues throughout history, and it's war. Like, you've managed to make it through all that. Your. Your history has brought you here. Yeah.

[John Osborne]

And I think, too, like, why we're so fascinated with the family dynamic is, like, that informs every choice. Yeah, that's it. Like, and. And the person you're sitting next to, your bro and the person that, you know, couldn't make it here today to my house, my bro is like, a huge part of what will inform generations to come.

[Oliver Hudson]

Of course.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, of course. But there's patterns that need to be, you know, admired and broken. You know what I'm saying? And I think that, you know, and I've done a ton of work on myself as well, and I think that, you know, there are certain moments where you look at your past and say, I'm not gonna be that. And then there are certain things that you want to emulate. But I also think that there needs to be some compassion and forgiveness in the people who have created bad patterns, because if you go back one more generation, you realize where the they came from.

[Cindy Crawford]

Exactly.

[Oliver Hudson]

Totally.

[Cindy Crawford]

Exactly. And that's a really good point, because you have to realize that we have the luxury of being able to take the time to fix those things. You go back a generation or two or three, they didn't have that time. I mean, look at. Or you look at the Great Depression.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

You look at just, you know, the Vietnam era, the civil rights era, all these things. I mean, people still kind of are just, like, trying to make ends meet, and lucky that we are in a place where we're afforded just the time and also the resources to change those things. And those will have an impact. The impact.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, not only that, but just a. A deeper recognition about the human condition and mental health and understanding that these are things that needs to be. That need to be tackled. You know, when. When my dad's dad bailed on him, my dad had no tools. There was no. There was no therapist. There was no one saying, hey, Billy, you know, you need to. We need to get through this. You know what I'm saying? Like, that just didn't happen back then. So you're going to repeat that.

[Cindy Crawford]

Who's your therapist? That's a conversation. And you're like, this is amazing that people ask that.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

When we were kids, that was something you just don't talk about.

[Oliver Hudson]

Totally. And, I mean. And probably the biggest problem now is it's. I mean, it is. Therapy is just sadly a luxury. I mean, there's just. Most people could never afford it.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

Well, how has it changed your writing?

[Oliver Hudson]

Like therapy?

[John Osborne]

Yeah. Do you think, like, being more in, like, do you like.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, it's gonna change their new. It's their new album. It's called Brothers Therapy, and the first single is Patterns. Like, I mean, perfect.

[John Osborne]

No, but I mean, do you think, like, the more do you think, like, do you find that, like. Because I. I find that sometimes a lot of artists need to live in a more chaotic type of state to access a certain type of writing.

[Cindy Crawford]

There is. There certainly is that, but it's not that you haven't lived it. You know, it's always a lived experience that you have. And as much as I would like to forget certain things, you can't. And you can always access that.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

And I think accessing it is actually quite healthy, and writing about it becomes quite cathartic, and it's just. That becomes another form of therapy. Talking about it like we're doing is another form of therapy. So it all. It's all something that is still a part of you. Even if you're in a better place, you can still access those things if you're willing to.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. Just having the confidence, I think, to be able to go somewhere that may be vulnerable or might make you feel like. Like weak or something. You know, I think you kind of get to a point in your life where you. You do have a lot of strength in your. Your weaknesses and acknowledging them. And I. You know, as far as writing is in that regard, I mean, or creating anything, you don't want any guardrails. You don't. There's not like you don't want any area you can access.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

So I feel like that is really something that. A luxury that we have later in our lives now where it doesn't seem like there really isn't anywhere we can't go if we want to.

[John Osborne]

When did you start making music together as adults? Like you? You both had solo careers, right?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah. So. And a brief synopsis of how it happened. I came down to Nashville first. He came down to Nashville not long after that. I was going to school here at Belmont, and he was, like, kind of living in my dorm room at Belmont. He was also 16. Just telling everyone that. He was like. I said, he Had a low voice at nine. So at the time. And so, yeah, and then I was in my 30s.

[Oliver Hudson]

What the hell?

[Cindy Crawford]

Sounded like he was in the 30s.

[Oliver Hudson]

You're also. Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

But, yeah, so I was in a. A separate band that's in this band. That's how I ended up writing with your Uncle Mark for a side project. TJ was signed to the same publishing company. We were writing a lot of songs for the band that I was in. The band fell and disbanded. Um, at the time, he was getting some notoriety in town. We started playing shows together. People thought that we were doing the duo thing, but we hadn't discussed it. And people kept showing up, being like, we love that you guys are finally doing a band together, but we're not doing a band.

[Oliver Hudson]

Which, you know, slight sidebar, but still relevant is our mom. Ever since the beginning, she wanted her children in a band together.

[TJ Osborne]

Of course. Yeah. I mean, that's got to be every parent's dream.

[Oliver Hudson]

Like, oh, yeah, there's no way you could listen to your mom, you know? Yeah, I'm not doing that. Like, no. Don't know what you're talking about. And, yeah, I was doing these solo shows, but I would always have him play guitar because he was, you know, badass. And then when we would finish, everyone would always be like, you guys together. Not really acknowledging that there was. It wasn't a duo, but they would always talk about it like it was. And we were like, man, maybe it is supposed to be this. And then. And honestly, to, you know, a total lesson in admitting you're wrong and your mom's right, is that we got together. We, as soon as we joined, like, did the duo thing. It. Everything just started, like, happening, like, falling in place really fast. Yeah. Shortly after.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

What was your first moment of, like. Like, note? Like. Like, real noticeable, like, after a show or maybe a meeting or something. Like a. Like, oh, like, where you're like, oh, we're.

[TJ Osborne]

We're.

[John Osborne]

This.

[Oliver Hudson]

We're.

[John Osborne]

We're in this. Like, this is happening kind of.

[Cindy Crawford]

I mean, not near the time where we got signed to our publishing deal together again, there's a lot of buzz. He was signing with this publisher in town named Kelly King, and then they were hashing out a deal, and we were doing so much stuff together that they were like, hey, we can't. We want to sign you both. So the business, in a way, was already kind of pushing us together. We weren't fighting it because we played music together since we were kids. It didn't seem like something that we had to think about. And at that point it was like, okay, once you put pen and paper and ink and contracts and lawyers and shit, then it feels really. You know, it felt like a marriage in a. Well, in a way. And. And then that's when we were like, okay, we. We fully, fully committed to that. And it was off to the races ever since. It's. Obviously, it's something that we should have listened to when we were much younger, but in a way, I wouldn't have changed a thing.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, her original idea, I will say, is she. She would say, you say, I'm TJ Osborne. And he'll say, and it was all supposed to be our sister in there. And she'll say, I'm Natalie Osborne and we're the siblings.

[John Osborne]

Oh, no.

[Oliver Hudson]

That's a little too far. A little.

[John Osborne]

Oh, no. Like, we love you, Mom.

[TJ Osborne]

But like, great pitch. Great pitch.

[John Osborne]

When you write, do you write. You write with other artists as well?

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

Do you always do it together? Do you ever separate and write with artists?

[Cindy Crawford]

We initially wrote a lot together, but lately, just because we don't have time, we write. We've been writing a lot separately, and it's been going well.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's been. It's been interesting because, you know, obviously we have different influences and things we want to say. And. And there has been this. The strangest thing of it all is that for this project, we've actually written apart for the majority of it. We've always written together previously. And I feel like somehow it's like so far the most us sounding music we've ever made.

[John Osborne]

It's, like, interesting.

[Oliver Hudson]

We've been kind of always musically all over the place a little like. And not necessarily. We didn't want to be. We just like so many different types of music. There might be one song from Country Leaning, one that feels like more soul or whatever, but this is oddly the most like, focused sounding music we've ever done. And we're not. We're writing it separately, which is. I don't know. Wow.

[John Osborne]

No, but when you say you're writing it separately, are you writing it with other writers or just. Just. You got.

[Cindy Crawford]

Sometimes we write with, you know, like, one of the songs on this album. Like, I wrote by myself. I will do that kind of thing. But we have. There are certain writers in town that we've written, have written with for so long that they just know us, you know, writing with someone for the first time is fun, but it's just a little awkward. You have to get to know them. They're learning you. It's just a kind of a blind date. These writers that we write with normally we've written with for over a decade and there's no wondering what we're about. They know what we're about. They've written. There's one in particular, this guy named Lee Thomas Miller is one of our favorite writers in the world. He just know. He knows everything about us, we know everything about him. He might as well be a family member at this point. And so when we're writing separately, he's almost like the third brother or the third Beatle. And it just works. And I think building those relationships over time has been very helpful.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, when you, when you're writing together, the. When you're writing separately, I mean, is there a concept that you have in mind for the album to where it's like, well, here's kind of conceptually where we're at.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's a great question. It's actually probably points to why I think or it is has been so focused is we've kind of have made a bit of like a return to where we started like a little bit musically and also just the direction. I mean when we first started off, I mean we were just kind of leaving our hometowns, like we were going to bigger, better things in our minds. And then we've kind of like have come full circle and we're like, you know, we love where we're from and it was a huge influence on us and the people around us were a huge influence on us. And we've kind of returned to the influence of that. So really kind of all you can kind of trace back. Some of them are specific, some of them are a little bit more ambiguous. But it is very family small town focused too. It kind of goes back to that like, you know, with our. Our dad was, you know, a self employed plumber. Our mom was like a, you know, contracted hairdresser. And so we. There was this thread within us even still for us, we. Even though we're doing music, it is. We're still like these kind of sole proprietors or whatever and kind of this, you know, strap it up, you know, by your bootstraps and get it done kind of songs. And so it feels very focused in that way which is probably, you know, to. I'm glad you asked that because I think that has a lot to do with why it is sounding a certain way. Because we are very focused.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

What we want it to be.

[TJ Osborne]

Let me guess the title. Crab Cake. No.

[John Osborne]

God, Oliver. So close.

[Cindy Crawford]

We have it's we have crabs, but we have crabs. That would be.

[Oliver Hudson]

That would be an amazing. If you could still do hidden tracks.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, you can create a separate genre called Crab Cake Country.

[Cindy Crawford]

That's actually really good.

[John Osborne]

Very Crab Cake Country.

[TJ Osborne]

It's like it's sort of a sub genre of country country music. Maryland country 5k country.

[T-Mobile Representative]

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[Kate Hudson]

When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song, and all the PDA Looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California Psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one we guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty.

[California Psychics Representative]

California Psychics hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like, I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age? Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn [e-mail].

[Oliver Hudson]

We'Re leaving today and entering a world of Cinderella Castle sights Tron Light Cycling Jungle Cruise Bunning Pirate swashbuckling Everest Climbing Dapper Denning Danning Soaring, soaring Fireworks show of I'm not crying, you're crying. World of Favorites for whatever you love, infinite worlds await at the most magical place on earth. Walt Disney World Resort.

[Cleveland Clinic Representative]

From prioritizing time to keep our bodies active to simply creating space to check on our well being. Happiness Lab listeners take their health very seriously. But when it comes to treating complex issues like heart disease, neurological disorders, or even cancer, the right care can make all the difference. That's why Cleveland Clinic has been elevating World Class patient care for over a century. Whether they're raising the bar in heart care, uncovering the mysteries of the brain, or researching new treatments for cancer, Cleveland Clinic continues to redefine what's possible for every breakthrough in health, for every care in the world. Explore a wide array of health and wellness information by visiting clevelandclinic.org today.

[John Osborne]

So, TJ, I can't. We have. I have to tap on this because it's such a huge. I mean, it's a very admirable. You're coming out, you know, in country music. You were like the first, you know, country music sort of signed country music to a major label to come out as gay.

[Oliver Hudson]

You did? Wait, what?

[Cindy Crawford]

What?

[John Osborne]

And I just wonder like, how. I. I just wanna. I, like, how did that. Was it just like a no brainer, you just had to do it? Or was it like, was it really hot, challenging for you? Were you scared? I have so many questions.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, I mean, I could talk about this for a long time, but I mean, I guess, you know. Yeah. So I was really fearful. I knew I always wanted to come out. In fact, John had referenced earlier where we sat down and signed the contract together. And before that happened, I actually came out to him then. I'm like, before, we are like contractually bound to one another. You need to know that I'm gay. And it was really sweet. He's like, you know, he knew. And we had a very emotional moment. But I was like, I don't intend on staying closet forever. Like, I, I have to do this now. My kind of goal the whole time was like, I wanted to have success and kind of do it at the height of our career. And then it was like, well, how the hell do you know you're at the height of your career? You don't know that down. And so I was like, well, you know, the whole thing of what I didn't want to have, what the biggest thing that was the hardest for me actually was emotionally I was at peace with myself for the most part. My family, close, the people that needed to know, knew I had had relationships. I had come to, you know, peace with myself. It was the fact that I just didn't want it to really look opportunistic. But the problem is, is there's always something to promote. There's like an album we just released or there's a tour about to happen or a single we just put out or. And so it was really, really challenging to figure out when that space happened. And honestly, Covid really made that room for Me. And in that moment, there was no touring. We put out an album already, and we weren't going to release one for a while. And I'm like, this is the best window of opportunity I'm probably ever going to have. And it was like, let's just take a leap of faith and do this. And I will say, I think probably what people. You use the word having the courage or whatever, but what really gave it to me wasn't innate. It was actually the people around me, like John, my manager, people that had something that really something to lose themselves, who didn't have one even. Well, maybe you should wait till. It was. Everyone was just like, we got you. We love you. And, you know, it was time. And so when it happened, it was also. It was just. It was. There was so many things that. That were going on about it. But I tell you what was really weird is that when the article was written, I wasn't. I wasn't allowed to see it until it was released. It was came out through Time magazine, and they were like, you can't see the pictures. You can't see anything because no editing. And I was like, oh. And so then they were like, well, this article is going to go live. And no one, like, I think it will go live tomorrow. But if we were in the middle of the election, which was another thing of, do I want to come out in the middle of this? We're like, well, if there's some bombastic news between Biden and Trump, you're going to get bumped out for that, obviously. And so I was like, which, by the way, that was happening every week. So I was like, what, Is this going to happen or not? So when the article came live, I was like. My manager was like, it just. She's like, it just went. Went up. And I was like. I felt like literally the error just was like, yeah. And then my phone was blowing up and I'm reading the article and I'm like crying and I'm laughing. And it was like this thing that I did not expect to have in that moment. I kind of. Originally, I just wanted to do it and not talk about it and just get on with my life like it always been. I felt totally different the minute it happened. I was like, no, I want to talk about this. So it's not visibility if I don't. And secondly, you know, in that article Sam Lansky wrote, and I came to know Sam through Jason Owen. Yeah, manager. And Sam, it was the simplest thing. The most simplest things are always right here. But I was like, you know, it's just a small part of me that I'm gay. It's not like, you know, who cares? And he was like, well, what if it isn't? Like, what if it's actually the biggest part of you? And I was like, I never. I think I minimized it so much.

[John Osborne]

For like, wait a minute. Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

And I'm like, well, it is. It is a huge part of me, you know, and I've minimized this about me just to feel better about.

[John Osborne]

Must have felt like you finally got like your first biggest breath of air. Like in terms of like, you know, like a huge weight being lifted off. But all of that emotion. But finally like you say, like having being able to actually be able to just talk about it.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah. And I, you know, reference it actually to an earlier thing you talked about, but I didn't want to go up, get in the weeds with this, at least in reference to whatever we were speaking about at the moment. But is you were talking about just kind of places you go creatively. And I felt like it was really stifling to me creatively when I would write because there were so many topics I would avoid because I didn't want to be questions about it. Like I would. All of our music, for the most part, it's always been kind of non binary because of that. Which actually ended up being a beautiful byproduct of our music. It is that way. So kind of a lot of people can see themselves in the narratives narrative. But I, you know, in that regard, I was like, holy cow. Like being on stage, I was. I never realized I was having these like micromanaging moments in my mind in split seconds where I may not do a gesture that I thought might be perceived as unmasculine or something. You know, these aren't things I was conscious of until I didn't have to do it anymore. And I was like, holy. Like I could go out on stage and do what I want to do.

[TJ Osborne]

Did you get any negative sort of feedback or haters or just, you know, essentially. Yes.

[Cindy Crawford]

No.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yes or no?

[Cindy Crawford]

We.

[Oliver Hudson]

We had kind of. Because we knew we wanted. I. We wanted to do this from kind of jump. We had kind of really slowly like curating a fan base that we knew would probably be pretty accepting of it. Our first big hit was Stay a Little Longer. God. And I would look back now, like the balls we had. Like we. In context now, this doesn't seem that crazy, but then there was. We had like a gay couple in there with an interracial couple in there and all these things that now seem kind of like, who cares? But at the time, it fucking pissed people. So they didn't want to kill. Literally wanted to kill us.

[TJ Osborne]

Really?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, we had, like, death threats. And so I was like, well, do you think that's crazy? Give it.

[Cindy Crawford]

Give it a.

[John Osborne]

Just wait.

[TJ Osborne]

Holy.

[Oliver Hudson]

And so anyhow, so by the time we kind of got here, I don't think it was necessarily like, you know, we kind of were okay with shedding some of those.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Early on that we knew.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

So. Yes. However, you know, there's a lot of people that are going to hate anyways. I mean, you guys, I'm sure, know this as well as anyone. We get asked all the time, like, when did you guys first feel like you were successful? And we always say, like, when we got haters, when people started talking like we're doing something, inevitably people are always saying something mean or making something about whatever.

[TJ Osborne]

But the country music community at large is very receptive.

[Oliver Hudson]

Extremely so. In fact, people that I didn't even expect, some of the more conservative artists.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Who were really super, super cool with me. Great. And. And it's been. Yeah, it's been quite a wonderful experience.

[John Osborne]

Yeah, I think it's amazing. And, and. And. And there's, you know, I. I know like, in certain part, like the four corners of the U.S. you know, certain things have been more acceptable at times, but like, you're. That you. That. That there's certain moves that people make that like, open. You open the floodgate for a lot of different artists.

[Cindy Crawford]

And so I've seen a lot of gay country artists.

[John Osborne]

It's just amazing. Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

And now you did. There's quite a few of them in Nashville and I don't think they would have had that.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

Courage without him doing what he did.

[TJ Osborne]

It's amazing.

[Oliver Hudson]

Certainly encouraged me that I had seen at the time, you know, like a very well known, like, radio personality and. And post cmt, like Cody Allen had came out not that long ago and it was super encouraging. And then artists, songwriters. I'm sure you've probably written with Kate or like seeing like, Shane McInally and people who were. Who were figures from like, kind of the underbelly of Nashville that have become, like, really well known and just had these very seamless lives. And, you know, and there is. And there tends to always be this kind of thing where people will say, like, the first. Like, he was the first, you know, the whatever category of this person to ever do this. And some. Some people have gotten twisted about that and I feel like it's, it's a little, it kind of is distracting from what the real narrative is. To me I don't really, to me it was like not about being the last. You know, like I don't really give a whether I was the first or the fourth or the eighth or whatever. I just hopefully and you know, me and our, our family friend Fancy who's openly gay. Amazing artist.

[John Osborne]

I love that name that I almost named my daughter Fancy. Really well I did Fancy Fujikawa and everybody's like you're nuts. And I'm like I love that name.

[TJ Osborne]

Pretty amazing.

[Oliver Hudson]

I think he named himself in this instance but I however I, you know I think was this kind of. He had mentioned this and I think it's right spot on is this is just to get to a place of where it's just not even, doesn't even need to be mentioned or yeah, some people will say to me, they're like who cares? Stop talking about it. No one cares. And I'm like sweetie, I wish they didn't. Like there's no one or in the world that wished it was not a thing than me. Let me believe.

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[Kate Hudson]

When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song and all the PDA. Looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California Psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one. We guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 2020 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty.

[California Psychics Representative]

California Psychics hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age? Every age that's what meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.

[Oliver Hudson]

We'Re leaving today and entering a world of Cinderella Castle Sightseeing Tron Light Cycling Jungle Crew Pirate Swashbuckling Everest Climbing Dapper Denning Soaring. Soaring. Fireworks show of I'm not crying, you're crying. World of Favorites for whatever you love, infinite worlds await at the most magical place on earth. Walt Disney World Resort.

[Cleveland Clinic Representative]

From prioritizing time to keep our bodies active to simply creating space to check on our well being. Happiness Lab listeners take their health very seriously. But when it comes to treating complex issues like heart disease, neurological disorders, or even cancer, the right care can make all the difference. That's why Cleveland Clinic has been elevating world class patient care for over a century. Whether they're raising the bar in heart care, uncovering the mysteries of the brain, or researching new treatments for cancer, Cleveland Clinic continues to redefine what's possible for every breakthrough in health for every care in the world. Explore a wide array of health and wellness information by visiting clevelandclinic.org today.

[TJ Osborne]

Do you have you had other artists confide in you about their sexuality and ask you sort of, I'm not ready to do this yet. But how did you do it and all, you know, anything like that?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, I mean there has been, I.

[TJ Osborne]

Mean, obviously, you know, not outing, outing people. Of course not. But I'm just saying, just generally I think there has.

[Oliver Hudson]

Mostly what I've gotten is people have been like, hey, thanks. Like, you know, like it's mostly from the fans, like not even artists or people who were like, you know, I've always loved country, but I always felt uncomfortable being at the shows or like I never really. And that makes me feel so good. Like people.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Can have someone that, that makes them, you know, I've had a couple people who were like, who did come out that post were like, you know, you were one of the people that helped encourage me and that is, that means more than anything.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

With our careers, I mean, and that I'm just in music in general. It's like being able to have an impact on someone's life in a positive effect is just always, I mean, it's really, it's the. You originally want to go and be like, oh, I want to be successful. I want to, you know, kind of like, man, when these, when those things happen, you realize, holy, that's really what it's about. Yeah.

[John Osborne]

What an amazing thing to, to also like, you know, you're. Again, it's. It's like there's nothing, there's, there's nothing self serving about the need for you and the, the thing for you to have to just be open with you who you are transparent. Like just like have that freedom but not to know the kind of impact that it actually would made. Would have made on others. You know, it's like that, that is the purest form of like how to really make a difference for people is when it's just coming from the most honest place of like you weren't even thinking the kind of impact it could have made.

[Oliver Hudson]

You know, that's why some people are like, oh it's amazing. And that's. There's some part of me that actually it's like it does almost feel a little more selfish. I mean I had to like right for me, like I was in the other thing that was really tore me up is people that were around me who felt like they had was like their cross to bear. And I'm like, guys, like there was someone who accidentally outed me once and he came to me and he was like, he was like, I feel horrible. I thought this person knew and I'm like, brother, like it's fine. Like you don't have to lose a second of sleep. You shouldn't like, it's not, you know, if you've done it in malice, I would probably be. I was like, you know what this, that you know, we're close. We're John and I, we have always been very like who we are unabashedly. And you know, I felt like this one thing is just like really it's conflicting with like just who we are, you know. And, and it was just time I was like this has to happen. And you know, again I feel like it has made my, the, the bond stronger with those around me. Some people that maybe didn't feel like they didn't really know me very well because I kept my distance for, for this reason. And man, like the right relationship's gotten better. But I think the, the biggest thing is honestly with our fans. I feel like my relationship with them has gotten like so honest and so. And it's really brought like a closeness I feel like between me and them because I was, I was hiding from so much. I did not want to get close to a lot of people that I didn't trust. Yeah. Anymore. It's like pretty, pretty badass. Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

To see their support was amazing. Coming out and in support of tj, and it felt. It was. It made that our relationship so much stronger. And you have a love and appreciation for them already because they're taking time out of their lives and spending money to come see you. But that felt like, so. So purposeful and honest and sincere. And that was just an amazing moment to witness.

[Oliver Hudson]

And our mom finally accepted it. She, you know, for the longest time, she was like, she'd be. When I first came out to her, she. I said. I said, you know, I told her, she goes, oh, no, you're not.

[TJ Osborne]

I'm like, I am like, no, you're not.

[John Osborne]

And I'm like, it's a phase.

[Oliver Hudson]

And then she's like, well, is your sister gay?

[Cindy Crawford]

I'm like, what the hell?

[Oliver Hudson]

You know, like, what the hell?

[Cindy Crawford]

Seeing the way I dress, there's like, there's no way that dude's gay.

[Oliver Hudson]

One time, you know, I was. I was like, you know, I was talking to someone. I said, it takes sometimes your parents a long time to come around to it. I was like, you know, my mom, it took her many years to, you know, finally come to terms with it. She's like, you're right, but I still think you need to be with Miranda Lambert. And I was like, I take that back. I think she's still struggling with this, actually.

[TJ Osborne]

Oh, my God. So she was just sort of in, you know, in a bit of denial, essentially, but not. Not angry or. It was more of denial.

[Oliver Hudson]

Hairdresser, for Christ's sake.

[TJ Osborne]

That's what I'm saying, right? Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

The first gay man I saw, my life was like, her co worker. I was just like, oh, my God.

[TJ Osborne]

This is so much fun. I. I want to hang out, though.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

I don't know. But you. You do whatever you want. But I will likely be drinking. Me too.

[TJ Osborne]

I'll be drinking. Hey, I'll 100 be drinking. It's just about a. I need a break. And then I need to learn to mitigate and have my nights where it's wild and crazy.

[Oliver Hudson]

I feel like it's part of you taking a break, because I coincidentally have myself.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, I'm just taking a break because I just need it.

[Oliver Hudson]

I.

[TJ Osborne]

You know, and a reset.

[Oliver Hudson]

I need a reset to prove to myself that I do actually have control.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. One million percent. A million percent. By the way, these 10 days, it's going to be three weeks, and I go to Cabo for a golf tournament.

[Cindy Crawford]

There we go.

[TJ Osborne]

I will be drinking, which is a.

[Oliver Hudson]

Disaster, next week for our. For Our. Our soon to be brother in law's bachelor party, so.

[John Osborne]

Oh, fun, fun.

[TJ Osborne]

Exactly. So it's gonna happen. I just.

[John Osborne]

Well, we. We have to. I have to get to Nashville. Maybe I will get Ollie out there. We can do like some sibling revelry.

[TJ Osborne]

I lived there for two years. I did the show Nashville for two years. I was honest.

[Cindy Crawford]

Right.

[TJ Osborne]

I just live right near Belmont. I live right just down the street from Belmont.

[Oliver Hudson]

Actually lived over there for like 15 years. It's the best spot.

[TJ Osborne]

Well, we should make a Gladstone building.

[John Osborne]

Oh, that's right. You were in Nashville.

[TJ Osborne]

I forgot I live there. The Gladstone building, you know, near Belme is.

[John Osborne]

You know, I think that was my favorite thing you've done is Nashville. I loved that.

[Cindy Crawford]

I'm convinced that show is partly the reason, actually. I think a big reason why Nashville as a city has blown the up. Knew about Nashville, but once they saw like, they got a window into it. Yeah, the city has changed. Yeah.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

That wild. A wild window. Soap opera window of Nashville.

[TJ Osborne]

That's right.

[John Osborne]

Oh, you guys are the best. We gotta end with our question because you're. Which is all you. You ask.

[TJ Osborne]

It's a two parter. Basically, you're looking at your brother and what is that thing that you would love to emulate? Something that he has that you wish that you had.

[Cindy Crawford]

And then muscles.

[TJ Osborne]

And then the flip of that is. The flip of that is what would you. What would you want to alleviate from your brother? Something that you know, if you could take away, their life would be better.

[Oliver Hudson]

I would say John is. Is very patient, except for we're both impatient drivers. But outside of that, John has a lot of patience. Yeah, it is one of my weakest qualities. I wish I had it, but I don't and alleviate for him. I would say one of my strengths is actually I don't really get that like stressed or hold that much anxiety for whatever reason.

[TJ Osborne]

So give me something alleviate that anxiety. That's right.

[Cindy Crawford]

I guess I will say my brother is a very bold, brave, strong person. Even aside from coming out as a country artist. That's kind of his. His nature. A lot of times meetings, he'll like go for the jugular. And I'm like, hell yeah. That's not kind of my nature. And it's really great to have that. And also his big muscles, probably his lack of patience because I know it's not necessarily like, oh my God. That's just. I know it kind of.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's. It.

[Cindy Crawford]

It does trouble him as well as it does around him. Does trouble him, but, you know, more just the kind of like the white knuckling side of things and, you know, and that as well. So I would, you know, just give him maybe just a little bit of, I don't know, maybe I should give him one of my, my ssri.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, of course. That's good. Or Xanax.

[John Osborne]

Oh, you guys are the best.

[TJ Osborne]

This was fun, boys. This is a blast.

[John Osborne]

So much fun.

[TJ Osborne]

I would love to. So fun. Yeah, we'd have a great time now.

[Oliver Hudson]

No doubt, for having us, you guys. Yeah, you guys are so busy.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[TJ Osborne]

Appreciate you guys.

[John Osborne]

This was great. Thanks for coming on. Bye, guys.

[TJ Osborne]

Oh, cool, guys.

[John Osborne]

They're the best.

[TJ Osborne]

We need to hang out. There's so many people. We need to hang out.

[John Osborne]

No, but, but we will hang out with them because they're close with, you know, my, the sort of inner circle of.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

[John Osborne]

Team. And, but they're so great. And what a wonderful, what wonderful spirits and energy and I love, so fun. I, I, I, I love everybody that we talk to. But then every once in a while there's just the people that feel like you came from the same, like you could. We came from such different backgrounds, but.

[TJ Osborne]

Yes.

[John Osborne]

Cut from a similar cloth.

[TJ Osborne]

Yes, yes.

[California Psychics Representative]

You know, 1 million.

[TJ Osborne]

You immediately feel like, with them completely comfortable. I feel like I could say absolutely anything, which of course I did.

[John Osborne]

Yeah.

[TJ Osborne]

And it's just. I love that. I love that.

[John Osborne]

And I also think it goes back to what we're talking about when it comes to, like, how you were, how you like your, your history, your family history.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

And you obviously, like, they had some, you know, people in their history that had real, you know, wild hairs up there. Hiney.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah.

[John Osborne]

And so did we. Yeah. A lot of wild hairs. A lot of hiney.

[TJ Osborne]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Osborne]

And out of that comes a certain type of energy, you know.

[TJ Osborne]

Exactly. That's the meshing of those two energies. It's good.

[John Osborne]

Oh, I love you.

[TJ Osborne]

I love you.

[John Osborne]

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[Oliver Hudson]

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[John Osborne]

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[Kate Hudson]

When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song and all the PDA. Looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California Psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one we guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty.

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