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- [00:00]
Shannon Maldonado
My name is Shannon Maldonado. I'm the founder of Yaoi, a gift shop from the lens of artists and handmade objects. I chose Shopify because when I was testing other platforms, it was definitely one of the most user friendly. It was important to me to think about where we would be in the future. All of the tools for reading your sales, like planning inventory, they're just right there on your dashboard. For anyone starting a small business, the biggest thing I can tell you is it doesn't have to be perfect. Shopify can help you build upon it. Start your free trial on shopify.com.
- [00:29]
Instacart Ad Speaker
close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.
- [00:45]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
And breathe.
- [00:46]
Instacart Ad Speaker
Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste.
- [00:53]
Bob the Drag Queen
Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.
- [00:57]
Monet X Change
1-800-contacts. Listen, quick, quick. Spoiler. If you have not seen Dimension 20 Dungeons and Drag Queens, there are some spoilers here. Monet. Monet is the reason for the spoiler.
- [01:11]
Bob the Drag Queen
Also, this is literally called the one about dungeons and Drag queens. So if you came in here not expecting to get a spoiler, what is wrong with you?
- [01:19]
Monet X Change
With that in mind, let's get things cracking. My name is Bob the Drag Queen. And I'm Monet X Change. And this is simply rivalry.
- [01:42]
Bob the Drag Queen
On today's episode, we talk about our favorite middle school card games.
- [01:46]
Monet X Change
We welcome dungeon master Brennan Lee Mull.
- [01:50]
Bob the Drag Queen
And we find out what made Bob say this.
- [01:53]
Monet X Change
If you tell another lie, I will make this game practically impossible for you. We found out what made Brennan say this.
- [02:02]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Wait, can we die? And I go, Ah, I should have explained. Yes, you can die. And we found out what made Monet say this.
- [02:10]
Bob the Drag Queen
I don't think I'm a nerd. I think I'm nerd. To Jason.
- [02:14]
Monet X Change
1, 2, 3.
- [02:16]
Bob the Drag Queen
I wish they could see everything that happens before the claps. Late because y'. All Bobby putting on for y' all so hard. He's so mean and Rud. Anyway. Hi, bitch.
- [02:24]
Monet X Change
I ain't never been mean to you, bitch. Now be on your best goddamn. Hey, we have company today. Let's welcome to the podcast all the way from Dropout tv.
- [02:35]
Bob the Drag Queen
Brittany, you wanna sit on your floor like you are a white woman on
- [02:39]
Monet X Change
a novel,
- [02:41]
Bob the Drag Queen
which you're like just a white woman on a novel. Like my life, my world.
- [02:45]
Monet X Change
You mean like the writer on the back when it's like the author, like notes on the author and she's like.
- [02:50]
Bob the Drag Queen
It's like my life, my love, my all.
- [02:53]
Monet X Change
Well, it's because I'm in a hotel and I use a table, but the desk is in the dark, but the table is by the light. But the table is a coffee table. So if I sit on the couch so I'm on the floor, that looks
- [03:05]
Bob the Drag Queen
like a very nice hotel. I said, oh, she got fucking money.
- [03:09]
Monet X Change
Okay, we need to get started. Welcome to that podcast. Brennan Lee Mull.
- [03:19]
Bob the Drag Queen
Hello, one and all. We have brother.
- [03:23]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I wanted.
- [03:24]
Monet X Change
I wanted to do that. We.
- [03:36]
Shannon Maldonado
Wow.
- [03:37]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
That's what it's like being on that end. Oh, my God.
- [03:40]
Bob the Drag Queen
That's drag her siblings rivalry. Listeners. Listen, y' all are in for a treat because we have Brennan Lee Mulligan in the house from Dimension 20.
- [03:51]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Thank you so much.
- [03:52]
Monet X Change
Before we get cracking, we need to say up front that dimension 20 in dungeons and Drag Queens is unstruck work. We are not scabbing. Check your local union rules to verify that. But this is Dungeons and 20. Dimension 20 specifically. Especially our episode Dungeons and Dragons. Dungeons and Drag Queens is a. Okay. We are all three unions strong and support our union.
- [04:20]
Bob the Drag Queen
Well, Brennan and I are. We don't know what Bob is doing. Bob is scaving. But Brennan and I are not.
- [04:25]
Monet X Change
First of all, his name is Brennan, not Brandon.
- [04:27]
Bob the Drag Queen
I said Brennan.
- [04:29]
Monet X Change
Mm.
- [04:29]
Shannon Maldonado
Mm.
- [04:30]
Monet X Change
We'll play the footage back. We'll play the footage back.
- [04:33]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yeah.
- [04:33]
Monet X Change
Everybody on mute.
- [04:37]
Bob the Drag Queen
Brennan, how are you doing?
- [04:39]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I'm doing phenomenal, yet very excited. We just got the news a couple, like about a week or two ago. A clean bill of health from Screen Actors Guild and from labor lawyers and, you know, passed with flying colors. We actually may have even been over eager in shutting down production. Anyway, we actually. Our contract has always been good to go, but we just have so much solidarity that I think we assumed. We just assumed we're going dark. And then two or three weeks later, SAG was like, you guys know that you're good to go. We love you. You're free to make stuff. And we went, okay. Very eager to be in solidarity.
- [05:21]
Monet X Change
Sipping on that solidarity.
- [05:22]
Bob the Drag Queen
Well, you know, so. Cause like. Cause this happened about episode three of ours, I believe. So we, like, the four of us are like, the four of us meaning Bob Jujube, Alaska, myself. We were like, I guess we shouldn't post this. Cause all of us are Sag and now we could have been talking about our shit the whole time. It's very upsetting the whole time.
- [05:41]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
But I'll tell you what, in terms of promotion, oh, my God. The side quest was just the outpouring of love of fan art, of all the people talking about. I mean, I knew when we recorded it that Dungeons and Drag Queens was very, very special. And for your listeners, that I'm sure know. But Bob and Monet came onto Dimension 20, which is, you know, Dropout, CollegeHumor's actual play where we get amazing, funny, talented performers. We play Dungeons and Dragons, we build custom miniatures, we have awesome art. And then we put it up as a show on Dropout tv. And it's really. It's. It was. It was such a joy. Our adventure, Dungeons and Drag Queens. I was blown away by it, and then so were the fans, so it was awesome.
- [06:28]
Monet X Change
So, I mean, Dropout is such a cool platform. So. I was first on Dropout when I did Game Changer, which is constantly on my TikTok. And then I did. So Game Changer is. Was a really, really fun game. My episode, we were trying to. We were trying to make someone cry. The goal was to dis interesting. This couple trying to make. Well, because of my. Because of how often I make you cry. They were like, well, Bob will be perfect for this.
- [06:55]
Shannon Maldonado
That's true.
- [06:56]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yeah.
- [06:56]
Monet X Change
It's actually really a little too easy, actually. And it was so fun. The studio is great. Everyone over there is just so, so friendly. But I want to talk specifically about this episode and how it came about, because, I mean, I'm not in the world of D and D. Well, now I am.
- [07:17]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yeah, girl, there you go.
- [07:20]
Monet X Change
But beforehand, you know, I had actually never done. They're called campaigns.
- [07:24]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yeah.
- [07:24]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yes.
- [07:25]
Monet X Change
I had never done a campaign once. Even in middle school, you know, I was always told I was Yu Gi oh strong. When all the nerds were gathering around their little cliques, their west side Story style game.
- [07:39]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yu Gi oh. Digimon. Did Digimon ever have a card? No, it was only tv.
- [07:45]
Monet X Change
They had figurines for sure. They might have had cars, but I know they had figurines for sure. Cause I was Digimon and Yu Gi oh. Now, when you were a kid and you were hanging out in these groups, there's the. The Gathering kids. Okay. There's the D and D kids. There's the Pokemon kids, the Yu Gi oh kids, the Digimon kids.
- [08:03]
Bob the Drag Queen
Which table was you sitting at?
- [08:05]
Monet X Change
I was with the Yu Gi oh kids. But the Pokemon Kids were strong.
- [08:09]
Bob the Drag Queen
I was a Pokemon kid.
- [08:10]
Monet X Change
These motherfuckers.
- [08:11]
Bob the Drag Queen
I was a Pokemon kid.
- [08:12]
Monet X Change
There was a lot of them. They were aggressive. They were. They were mean.
- [08:16]
Bob the Drag Queen
I will say this. I started trading Pokemon cards in middle school. And one of, like the first four or five packets I bought, I am not kidding, I got a holographic Charizard card right back then, I did not know its value. I swear I traded it for something so stupid, like a fucking bulbasaur or some shit. And again and again. You know, I was a middle school kid. I was always book smart, not street smart. I was like, I'll trade you my holographic Charizard for your bulbasaur. And they're like, okay. And then, you know, years later, I realized what a stupid fucking decision that was.
- [08:51]
Monet X Change
Somebody said, watch this. Get this fucking idiot. Notice that car is shining. Ew, gross. We hate that. We'll take that off your hands. I'll give you the. I'll give you the wrapper. My packet came in.
- [09:03]
Bob the Drag Queen
Brennan, who are you? What did you.
- [09:06]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I started Magic the Gathering. So I got introduced to Magic the Gathering, San Diego Comic Con, 1996. My. My mom, Elaine Lee, was a comic book writer and so was going to work at comic conventions. And there was a guy selling. There was a dude who. Who had opened like a thousand packs of Magic the Gathering cards, stripped all the uncommons and rares and just had a giant box of commons and was selling them for like $10. So I get this huge box of. Commons are playing. Commons are the most. The least monetarily valuable cards. So the rares and uncommons are your blue eyes, white dragons. They're your holographic Charizards. He had stripped all of those and left a bunch of swamps and grizzly bears. And you're like, yeah, had all those cards. And I played for many years until you get to that age where you can start to, like, you're old enough to start taking things a little too seriously. And I had some friends who were like. I was like, oh, I made a. I made a new magic deck. And friends were like, I went to the store this weekend and I bought, card by card, all of the best cards as singles from behind the counter. And I've made an unbeatable. Basically, my friends with money just won. And then I went, ah, well, my time in this hobby has come to an end.
- [10:28]
Monet X Change
That's so funny. They're like, so you'll never beat me. We are in a different tax bracket.
- [10:36]
Bob the Drag Queen
Jacob, can you look at what the value of A holographic Charizard card is. I'm very curious. Can you just look it up?
- [10:42]
Monet X Change
So there's a YouTuber named Logan Paul, small time guy, but he has been chasing down holographic charizards. And let's just say if someone wanted to do what they did with Magic the Gathering with Pokemon cards, it would be a lot more expensive. I think he paid, like, I don't want to guess, but it is an ungodly amount. It is more than a house to buy a holographic Charizard card. If you truly had a holographic Charizard card. I did.
- [11:11]
Bob the Drag Queen
I did.
- [11:12]
Monet X Change
I literally cost more than a house. I realized, like, a very nice house.
- [11:16]
Bob the Drag Queen
The important year. I realized, like, you know, because I was still into Pokemon, but, you know, in middle school, you kind of. A lot of things were changing for me, you know, my voice getting deeper. I was trying to, like, hook up with other guys. So, like, I had more interest that were percolating. And then like a year I remember, we were like, oh, this is really expensive. I was like, oh, shit. And then now I'm wondering what it was. Anyway, so. So dimension 20.
- [11:35]
Monet X Change
So Jacob has the answer. Jacob has the answer. So here's the distinction.
- [11:39]
Bob the Drag Queen
There's.
- [11:39]
Shannon Maldonado
There.
- [11:39]
Monet X Change
There are two types. There's a. There's a first edition holographic Charizard that's going to be the expensive one that's worth. I think one, the one that Bob is talking about went for $420,000.
- [11:53]
Bob the Drag Queen
I don't think mine was. I don't remember, actually. I don't think so.
- [11:55]
Monet X Change
But, like, a regular holographic Charizard is probably gonna go for like 300 to 500.
- [12:01]
Bob the Drag Queen
Oh, wait, thousand or dollars dollars.
- [12:04]
Monet X Change
Bitcoin 300. The first edition is really the main distinction.
- [12:09]
Bob the Drag Queen
Got it. So, Brandon, so how did, like, so how did y' all decide that y' all wanted to have queens for this? Like, where did that idea come from?
- [12:17]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
The idea started to bubble up from a number of different corners, actually. So number one, everyone at Dropout is a huge Drag Race fan. Everybody at Dropout, enormous fans of both of yours, enormous fans of Alaska and jujubee. I gotta tell you, there are coworkers. So the show's been doing well for a minute, but there are coworkers of mine that I don't, I think, got professional respect for me as a Dungeon Master. When they found out I would be working with you, like, people in Slack being like, brennan, the show's doing well. And I was like, we both work Here, like, you know that. That's true. But they were like, but Bob and Monet are coming out. And it's like, yeah. So it's. It's a. It was a huge deal. You know, we. The. I remember telling my wonderful wife Izzy, I was like, I think this is gonna happen. I think we're in talks, and it's looking good, and I think these are the queens we're gonna be working with. And she was fully like, I need a moment to just process that this is happening. It was so cute. Sam Reich, our CEO, huge Drag Race fan. Paul Robolino, who's one of our heads of development, enormous Drag Race fan. And then there were a couple of people, I believe, at Peg that were big Dimension 20 fans as well. And so this conversation got kicked out.
- [13:39]
Bob the Drag Queen
Got it.
- [13:40]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
There was just a sort of mutual, like, oh, were people that are working behind the scenes that are in orbit of each other? And the second that it seemed like, hey, there's some mutual interest here, we reached out right away, and it was a slam dunk for me as well, because I think that just, like, having watched both of you perform, having gone to both, like, live shows in person, and Bob actually has some connections to, like, my old friends in the New York comedy scene from, like, Josh Sharp.
- [14:09]
Monet X Change
Found that out.
- [14:10]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yes. Wild.
- [14:11]
Monet X Change
Yeah.
- [14:12]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
So, like, knowing the. Like, I had no doubts in my mind that we would produce a great season of the show, because there's an interesting thing. People were like. Were like, oh, this is so wild. Like, drag queens playing D and D. And in my head, I think I was always like, I think there's gonna be a lot of synchronicity. And, like, this is. A lot of things are running parallel here, like, big performance energy, embracing things that are epic and larger than life and camp and fun and dramatic. Like, all of these things are. Are kind of part and parcel of the same energy of, like, storytelling and performance and drama. And then when it all started to. Started to come together, it was like, okay, we can get these four performers for these days. Like, you know, what's the. You know? And then the creative sort of happened around. Like, once we knew we'd be working with you, that's when the creative started. So it was really about the opportunity to work with you. And then the season kind of took shape around that.
- [15:14]
Monet X Change
So, you know, I didn't realize how well connected and deep in the world of improv and comedy, extemporaneous humor Brendan Lee Mulligan is. I just knew Brennan as a producer at Dropout. When I did Game Change, I was like, oh, he's one of the producers over at Dropout. And then, of course, you know, I'm a comedian from New York City, so a lot of my friends are from that scene as well. And I used to go. Years ago, I used to go see this play called Identical Fucking Twins, the Musical. And they used to do the chat back at my show, which is how I got involved with Josh Sharp and Aaron Jackson. And then, of course, Nicole Byer used to come to my shows all the time as well, and I would go support her. And I didn't realize that you DMed for Nicole years ago, apparently, yes. Nicole was. Cause I was like, nicole, you gotta. Because I told Britt I was like, I want to do a live campaign. And then she was like, yeah, I did one years ago with Brennan Mulligan.
- [16:13]
Bob the Drag Queen
He was powerful.
- [16:14]
Monet X Change
I did one years ago with Brendan Lee Mulligan. And then I was like, apparently, we can't go back because we didn't know that we had the world's best dm. We didn't realize this. I mean. Cause we have the Beyonce ladies and dragons. Literally, Brendan says, everybody go mute. All the nerds go mute, girl.
- [16:33]
Bob the Drag Queen
Like, it was just so, like, to see people's response like, oh, my God, you guys got Brennan as your dm. And, like. And honestly, it's like, how can I ever go? I cannot play DD again if it's not gonna be Brennan. Being the dungeon master, I wish I
- [16:49]
Monet X Change
could have given you the reverence you deserved at the time, but I didn't know. I didn't know. I couldn't see young Lavenz that I couldn't see. And so I went on a cruise right after. Right after. And there was this guy there. He was like this. Like, it's like it was a cruise, but it was kind of a daddy cruise. It was like an older crowd. There's this one young guy who was getting all the ding a ling, all
- [17:13]
Bob the Drag Queen
the ass on this cruise.
- [17:14]
Monet X Change
He was just like. He was cleaning up, this guy.
- [17:16]
Bob the Drag Queen
I'm telling everybody my business.
- [17:19]
Monet X Change
I said, young. Anyway, and as we're all hanging out. And then he was nerdy, right? And in the midst of. Somehow, he mentioned that he's really big into Dungeons and Dragons. And I just said, oh, I just played Dungeons and Dragons for the first time ever. He was like, you gotta have a good Dungeon Master. You gotta have it. And I was like, yeah, I have this really cool guy named Brennan Lee Mulligan. And I mean, the ship stopped moving. The Earth stopped rotating.
- [17:50]
Bob the Drag Queen
Birds started falling from the sky.
- [17:52]
Monet X Change
Yeah, yeah. Birds landed in the sea.
- [17:56]
Bob the Drag Queen
Whales were pretzeling in the water.
- [17:59]
Monet X Change
I started floating two feet off the ground, light emanating my body. I turned into Dark Phoenix on the spot. He was like, there's no way. And he was like, you're lying. I was like, why would I lie? He goes, you're lying. You're making that up. And I was like, I have his phone number, bitch. If he weren't in the water, I'd call him right now.
- [18:19]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I can't believe it's so. I can't. First of all, that is so unbelievably. I'm like, I'm red as a tomato right now. That's very flattering, but also so funny. For this dude to be like. To know you're to. You're so famous, and for him to be like, it's impossible for you to have met Internet dungeon master Brennan Lee. Like, I don't know. That seems pretty plausible.
- [18:42]
Bob the Drag Queen
Brennan so famous. I mean, he's fine. He dog's doing fine.
- [18:46]
Monet X Change
Brennan was talking to me, not you.
- [18:47]
Bob the Drag Queen
That's why you. So how did you. How did you get into the.
- [18:52]
Monet X Change
Like.
- [18:52]
Bob the Drag Queen
Like, when. When did you arise as the dungeon master power? When did this. Like, how did this happen?
- [19:00]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Well, I mean, you gotta believe that I'm, like, as stunned and bewildered. I wake up every day and, you know, go to work in this job and just have a weird gnawing sensation of, like, I'm getting away with something. This is. This is too much fun, too cool. And listen, there's a lot of hard work involved with it, but, my God, it's a. It's such a gift to be able to do it. And, you know, I think I could speak for, like, myself and Sam and everybody that works at Dropout, where, you know, it's only due to people's support of the platform and of the shows that we get to, like, wake up and go to work at this place. And, like, you know, the. Like, everyone on set, it's like a gift to go to work with each and every one of them. Like, we're so proud of the crew that we. We have there and the cast that we get to work with. And the. How it started, essentially, was, like, when I was 10 years old, I got going back. We're going back back. So I've been playing D and D since I was 10, right? I started running games when I was 10 years old, like, running them.
- [19:56]
Bob the Drag Queen
DMing them at 10.
- [19:58]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
DMing them at 10 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:59]
Monet X Change
Remember when he was thrown out of the rich people's house?
- [20:02]
Bob the Drag Queen
He was shunned for his poor hand. James.
- [20:07]
Monet X Change
Shunned for being poor? Yeah, you know, a little bit. Brendan, let's continue this story after this break, okay?
- [20:12]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Okay, let's do it.
- [20:18]
Monet X Change
All right. And we are back with Brennan Lee Mull again.
- [20:23]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Oh, I love that.
- [20:24]
Monet X Change
Brennan's, like. Never heard that one. You were 10 years old, running campaigns.
- [20:30]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Running campaigns. I. I ran. I ran a campaign from the age of, like, 11 to 17 that actually, like, got all the way to 20th level finished.
- [20:40]
Monet X Change
What does that mean? What does that mean? So, 20th level, what level were we at?
- [20:44]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
You were all.
- [20:45]
Monet X Change
Who watched Dungeons and Drag Queen. What level were we at? And what level? How does that compare?
- [20:49]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
You were all fifth level, which is. Which is a great sweet spot for you. Have you start to get your juiciest, most fun abilities, like extra attack and counterspell and things like that.
- [21:02]
Bob the Drag Queen
Walk on water.
- [21:03]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Walk on water.
- [21:04]
Monet X Change
Huge.
- [21:05]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Absolutely huge.
- [21:06]
Monet X Change
Walk on water.
- [21:09]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I love that so much. It's so good. But honestly, what would have happened if you'd walked across that river? We never would have met that big undead whale. We never would have had that giant fight. So all things happen exactly as they did.
- [21:22]
Monet X Change
And it was Monet being like, oh, I just realized. I was like this bit. And, you know, the shady thing is, is Brendan knew the whole time. Brendan knew what she fucking had. Brendan fucking knew. That was the moment where I realized, we'll get into it later. But the moment where I realized, we're fucking fighting you.
- [21:37]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
We're fighting that moment of dawning comprehension where you've put together where you looked. I remember looking across the table at me and being like, wait a minute. If you're everybody who's not us, that means you're all of our enemies. And it was this. I don't know, I was so. This is weird to say. I was so proud in that moment of you, like, looking and being like, I need to fucking kill you. And me being like, yes, yes, you must destroy me. This is what we have come here to do.
- [22:09]
Bob the Drag Queen
It's not that. More in the movie where, like, all the other characters are doing something and Bob is, like, one of the main ones and, like, you can hear all of us arguing behind him, but the music is just cinematic.
- [22:17]
Monet X Change
He's like, wait, wait a minute. It's Brennan. We gotta get.
- [22:21]
Bob the Drag Queen
Guys.
- [22:22]
Monet X Change
Well, it's. It's the Incredibles, too, when they. I mean, Spoiler alert. It's been years. Spoiler alert. When they realize that that woman is the villain. It's not. They realize it's been you the whole time.
- [22:34]
Bob the Drag Queen
Okay. Sorry, Brennan.
- [22:36]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
No, no, no. Basically, long story short, I've been dming since I was a kid. I worked as the head writer for a live action role playing summer camp in upstate New York. I was doing a lot of, like, nerdy game design, story creation, interactive storytelling stuff. And then, you know, I went to college for screenwriting in New York, got out and spent a couple years as a bartender and was sort of like, I don't know anyone. Career's not going so good. And I started taking classes at UCB and pursuing comedy mostly as a, like. Mostly as a way just to meet other people. Because I was in that, you know, in a place that a lot of people I think get to in their, like, early mid-20s, like, like out of college, where you're just like, oh, I kind of. I've like, lost whatever, like, network I had in college. I'm a little bit adrift. I gotta, like, you know, dig deep and find some way to connect with other people that are doing the kind of things I'm interested in. So that's what brought me to ucb and it's this insane thing where when I first started doing improv there and doing comedy, I used to joke when I was on my first Herald team at ucb, being like, listen, you're all doing it.
- [23:43]
Bob the Drag Queen
For those of you.
- [23:45]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yeah. Which is where I met Josh Sharp, by the way. Just saw the trailer for Dick's the Musical, which is the adaptation of fucking identical twins. Josh Sharp is like the sweetest, funniest dude in the world. And drag Aaron Jackson. Well, Aaron. Well, Aaron, also lovely, but I was not on a huge.
- [24:04]
Bob the Drag Queen
Brandon. Do not feed into Bob's nonsense. Do not feed into Bob's.
- [24:08]
Monet X Change
Bernard Lee Mulligan and Aaron Jackson in a vicious, vicious Internet fight.
- [24:12]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
You know, Aaron knows what. Aaron knows what he did all the time. Ultimately, Aaron's longtime partner at the time did work at my favorite restaurant. So I have. So I have good things to say about Aaron and Gestalt, the people that Aaron surrounds himself with. But you know what? You know, I'm gonna fucking get that guy. I'm a fucking venom, okay? But the. So, like, I came to comedy and like, joked with my Herald team, you guys are doing improv. I'm just larping up here. I'm still doing my D and D bullshit. This is always what I'm going to be doing. But it was this funny thing where
- [24:45]
Monet X Change
it's like LARPing is live action role play. I learned that from. From our good friend Kaleo.
- [24:52]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yes.
- [24:53]
Monet X Change
Cleo taught me that. Oh,
- [24:56]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
it's. Which is basically just like D and D, but you're dressed up and doing it irl.
- [25:00]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yeah.
- [25:02]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
So basically I made this really brilliant decision. I was like, you can't make a career out of D and D. Let's pursue something lucrative like improv. And so that was my brilliant decision that I made. And then I pursued that and, and you know, was like teaching improv and kind of getting by. I was, I was very. I was. I had a wonderful life that was like kind of scraping and not finding the place. That would be like a full time entertainment thing. And then I got hired at college humor and the moment I got there I was like, finally a place where I can do comedy. And you know, the company was like, we need you to play D and D. And I was like, what I did, I went all out of my way. I did all these years of comedy to get to the comedy job in West.
- [25:50]
Monet X Change
Just a side quest.
- [25:51]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah.
- [25:51]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yes. Perfect. Honestly.
- [25:53]
Monet X Change
Yes.
- [25:53]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
It was all just a side quest.
- [25:55]
Monet X Change
Life is one big D and D campaign.
- [25:57]
Bob the Drag Queen
It is. Honestly.
- [25:59]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Oh, my God. Yeah.
- [26:01]
Monet X Change
So I want to talk about the challenges that you had with us now.
- [26:05]
Bob the Drag Queen
Jujube specifically.
- [26:07]
Monet X Change
I mean,
- [26:10]
Bob the Drag Queen
Julie Beatrice hitch.
- [26:14]
Monet X Change
So Monet, Alaska and Jujubee had all played like once over 15 years ago. Yeah, I had never played in my life. So you basically had four people who had literally never played ever. The college dropout. I mean, the dropout team is really, really fierce in how the, the amount of work we didn't just show up that day. We, we. I mean, we were. I mean, when I say we were walked through this by, by our hands, I mean literally guiding us, force feeding the food into our mouths, teaching us.
- [26:44]
Bob the Drag Queen
And jujubee threw it all up. Jujubee did not digest anything. She just threw up everything she was told.
- [26:49]
Monet X Change
So there were moments when we got there and I was like, by the way, obviously me and Monet love Jujubee. We're all just being silly here. But there were moments where I was like, jujub, this is. Yeah, you guys, I mean, I don't want to give you too much spoiler alerts, but you have to watch it because GGB have this power called not concealed. What was it?
- [27:07]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Invisibility or. No. Pass without trace.
- [27:10]
Monet X Change
Pass without trace, which she thought meant she could disguise herself as anything in the world. So we be faced with this big issue and then like, you know, A lot of D and D is like figure like, it's like a. It's like playing Zelda. It's like you got to just. Zelda is just a bunch of puzzles to figure out how to fight this final guy. But you gotta make a bunch of puzzles, you know, fix a bunch of puzzles. And jujubee's answer would be like, I've disguised myself as your earring. I'm in.
- [27:39]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
It was like, what do you do
- [27:40]
Monet X Change
when you get someone on the campaign who's just like, I just. Well, I just wiggle my fingers and everyone explodes.
- [27:46]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Listen, I know. I hope I'm providing content for, for you both that is worthwhile right now because this is just going to be more relentless positivity. I'm afraid to say. It was fucking perfect. It's perfect. Here's, here's.
- [28:00]
Monet X Change
It was you right now. I mean, jujubee was great to watch.
- [28:03]
Bob the Drag Queen
It was great to watch all of
- [28:05]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
you like everyone like, like Alaska with this enormous tutu wearing half orc and like the character, voice and face. Jujube. Jujubee just like swinging for the fences. Like Troy Ann, the first scene, the first scene with Troy. Annette, your character voice just so grounded right away, all four of them.
- [28:31]
Monet X Change
Even when it kept changing.
- [28:34]
Bob the Drag Queen
First of all, Gertrude. Anyway, continue, Brennan. I'm not gonna talk.
- [28:38]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
And the degree to which Gertrude was like immediately putting up the red yarn conspiracy board of what the fuck was going on in the underworld. It was. Everyone was so engaged right away. Like, here's the actual, like all of the chaos in the world. Like when I get curveballs, you gotta believe me when I say a curveball, even if it makes me have to bend over backwards to hit it, is such a welcome. Is such a welcome. Because what that means is a person is engaged. The only nightmare scenario for a Dungeon master is if the person doesn't care. So no matter how crazy or unhinged or wild the swing or. And also like all that stuff like, you know, jujubee's like misunderstanding and ability, you know, of like what it does, but ultimately like, did it slow us down? Did it fuck up my plans? No. Chaos never fucks up plans. Apathy fucks up plans. Non engaging, right? So every person at that table was so invested and I got. It's my favorite moment to watch people that are discovering the game. I think there's a moment where. I think, Bob, where you say it, where someone says a little joke. Oh, it's the Mark Ronson thing. Monet's so funny. Like, like jujubee goes like, which Mark? Mark so and so. And you got Mark Ronson. And then I have dead Mark Ronson of spoilers for the first episode. Everyone go check it out. But there's dead Mark Ronson. And Bob goes, so anything we say, if we say it like in character, it becomes canon. Watching those realizations of people falling into the magic of the game, that's the best.
- [30:25]
Monet X Change
And no spoilers. There are some spoilers, but I think my favorite part of the Jujube madness was in the shop fight. So you got this fight between, between Gertrude or not a fight, but the disagreement. And it ended up being a fight between Gertrude and the guy who runs the bazaar, this Jekyll headed.
- [30:50]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Oh, Nyrith.
- [30:50]
Monet X Change
Yeah, the demon who runs the bazaar. And it was my idea to go in and fight this guy and trick him. And it backfired. Severely crazy. But in the moment where he and Brendan, you were so gracious. You really, you were like, you were like, I'm not hiding anything. If you lie to me again, you basically out of character said, if you lie again, I will make this game very hard for you. Basically in character. Brennan was like, if you tell another lie, I will make this game practically impossible for you. And then jujubee immediately lies. She goes, I never lied. We were like, bit.
- [31:42]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
But that's. That, that's the, that's the most fun part is like, because there's this weird. So like there's a little, there's little paradoxes in D and D that make it a game you keep wanting to come back to over. You know, I've been playing it for like 25 years and I still want to come back as often as I can. One of the paradoxes is it's a world of limitless imagination where anything is possible and it's got hard and fast consequences for fucking up. And that thing of like boundless imagination. But fuck around and find out is this. It's just intoxicating. And there's that moment where you know, Jujubee. Yeah. It says that thing of like, I've never told a lie. And then this demon has to get very, very serious. But. And again, people gotta go watch the series because it's beautiful. And I think that the way in which you. So here's the thing that I will say.
- [32:31]
Monet X Change
I've played and watch Adventure Party too. It's really, really fun because you get to see me, Alaska, Monet and Jujubee basically completely out of character. Just talk about what the fuck just happened.
- [32:42]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
These great talkback episodes. And I will say the way in which you guys as your quest in Queens, as your adventuring party, actually go back and deal with the ramifications of that. Shop at the Midnight Bazaar. I've played a lot of D and D. I have never seen people that new to the game do something that like profound, like emotionally resonant and really take a big risk and have it pay off in such a huge way. It was such a, it was such a great moment of character growth. The fact that everyone, you know, like we had four episodes and everyone's character arc like boom boom, boom boom. By the end of four episodes it was just, it was unreal. Like it was all of you were just like zero to 60. You know, like you start the first episode and you're like okay, what die do I roll to do this? And like 40 minutes later everyone is fucking Meryl Streep. Oscar winning scenes deep in the character, hitting the adventure. It was, it was unreal. It was such a gift to be at that.
- [33:47]
Bob the Drag Queen
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile Now. I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we we made $15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch upfront payment
- [34:08]
Instacart Ad Speaker
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- [35:18]
Bob the Drag Queen
So was. Was there anything like, anything that you had planned that we didn't get to do? Because. Because of how we were played the game, we kind of went too far off track. Was there anything like that?
- [35:27]
Monet X Change
Any characters that we didn't get to see?
- [35:30]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I think, look, jumping back over my notes, and this is a funny thing too, with Dimension 20, because we shot this in January.
- [35:36]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yeah.
- [35:37]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
And we're recording this, like, mid August.
- [35:38]
Monet X Change
Yeah.
- [35:39]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Is off the top of my head. I think that there were a couple of other locations you could have explored in the town by the riverside, the one that had the Midnight Bazaar in it. Like, there was the archives that you could have gone to to gotten some, like, lore information. There were a couple other things like that There were. And I think you can remember, like, oh, there were like a couple other named places, but for the most part. Right. I think you all found everything. Like, there were no NPCs you didn't encounter. Basically. There were, like, a couple of magical resources that you could have gotten that you didn't get. But you ended up taking care of business. So, you know, a couple things like that you didn't end up needing those extra little treasures and things like that.
- [36:23]
Monet X Change
Well, you all. You all really let us. I mean, obviously you let us, you know, have a lot of fun and go really, you know, you didn't put too many restraints on us. You let us. You did let us fuck around and get ourselves into some pretty sticky situations, which is, I think, I don't know, part of the. Which was a big part of the draw. I think what made it so much fun for me was that everyone. We were so involved and I was lucky enough to sit next to Jujubee, who was really. I mean, she would get deeply emotional into the game, which made me deeply emotional into the game. Like. Like, y', all, we were like, we were in here crying. We were in here laughing. I mean, like, getting. I mean, sweating with anxiety at the
- [37:07]
Bob the Drag Queen
end of the story when we have that, like, moment, you know, that with the cat TR Everything and jujubee is like, cry. It was like the energy and the tension in the room of all those decisions. Like, y', all, like, that's not something that we were, like, putting on for the camera. It was like, real feelings and real emotion that we were. Because, I mean, in those four episodes, those two days we filmed this thing, we got so invested in these characters and their lives and, like, what they were experiencing. It was it was. It was so crazy. Like, it was like this. Like, this, like, spiritual experience. It was kind of wild.
- [37:39]
Monet X Change
Well, you guys took a big risk with that because y' all made a cat tree figurine. What if. What if she never summoned cat tree again? Y' all would've just, like, had this thing.
- [37:49]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
So this is how good. And by the way, I want you to know, Bob, the thing you said at the table of the devil works hard, but T20 works harder. That's now, like, printed up in the art shop. Like, we love that. So, so, so much. So, like, they built that after Jujubee established that summon.
- [38:07]
Monet X Change
Yeah, she made it up on set.
- [38:08]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
She made it up. Day one, literally. We're recording in the dome. Jujubee says that Rick Perry, our amazing creative producer, production designer, the maestro himself, hears that, and he just leans over to either, like, Raven Bartlett, who's one of our lead model makers, or Casey or anyone else and just goes, like, hey, let's get started on fabricating that. That summon. Like, wild. And it just starts. It just goes, you know, And. And everybody there who. Who were our amazing editors, I got to shout out Tyler Schulke, who's the lead editor on this one, who just did an incredible, incredible job. Carlos Lunar, head of series production. But, like, the. The building, that stuff. And again, like. Like the emotional place that everybody got to. I have to tell you, like, the. The credit for that is fully on all of you as performers, because you're seated at a table, you get these little plastic dice. You've got like, a sheet, basically, like an Excel spreadsheet in front of you full of numbers. That's not, like, the things you would imagine gets you to this deep, emotionally profound place. So it's really about giving yourself the vulnerability and the grace to let go and truly get lost in this world. And when you do that, and I can point to, like. Like, if I was going to be like, the. You know, like, get a whiteboard in front of me and point out all the amazing decisions that got you there. I think the smartest thing that the cast did as performers, that both of you and Alaska and jujubee did as performers, was deeply tie your characters to the stakes of the world, right? Troianne, it was such a gift. Monet, when you made Troianne and said, she's been to the underworld before, she comes here, she's an assassin. She hunts people down and gives their souls as this tribute to the goddess of the underwor. What a gift. Because then I have a character That I can always go, yeah, you know this. You've been here before. Like, you have stake, you're tied to the world, you have stakes. And for Gertrude, having this intense cosmic tie to the world, like this curse that, you know, no spoilers, you get into at the end of the thing, but it's this really profound personal connection that basically ties Gertrude's whole long immortal life deeply into the central narrative. So, like. Like when the adventure is both cosmic and personal, that's when you get to those deep emotional places. Right. What's happening to the universe is a reflection of what's happening to you as an individual. And, man, that was. Every single person just took such huge risks and allowed themselves to be vulnerable, to just let go. It was unbelievable.
- [40:46]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah.
- [40:47]
Monet X Change
So, I mean, so I don't know. So I was. I came home and my boyfriend knows a little bit about Dungeons and Dragons. And I was asking, like, I mean, not that I'm worried about the company, Dungeons and Dragons, they're probably doing fine, but how do these companies make money? Because you don't actually have to buy anything from Dungeons and Dragons to play Dungeons and Dragons, which seem. Which seems like a company.
- [41:09]
Bob the Drag Queen
Like.
- [41:10]
Monet X Change
Like Dungeons and Dragons is a company. Right?
- [41:12]
Bob the Drag Queen
Oh, got it, got it, got it, got it. I see what you're saying.
- [41:14]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
So Dungeons and Dragons is a game that is published by Wizards of the coast, that is a games company, and they do have their core rule book. So they do have, like the Player's handbook and the monster manual, the Dungeon Master's Guide. So these rules do exist. So they make money as a games publisher. But I will say, as you're pointing out, when I move from Magic the Gathering, where you always have to buy the new set of cards that comes out, I bought the 3.5. We got the 3.5 core rulebook of an earlier edition of Dungeons and Dragons. And I played with those books for, like, I'm actually still playing with those books, like, 20 years later. So you figure you spend like 35 bucks on a player's handbook back in the early 2000s, and you get a lot of, you know, like, that's a
- [42:02]
Monet X Change
lot of stammer, a lot of bang for your buck.
- [42:03]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yeah, for sure.
- [42:04]
Monet X Change
I mean, it's a deeply communist. It's Comrades and Dragons.
- [42:09]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yeah.
- [42:10]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
But, yeah, that's the thing is it's like, it's a rare thing. And I think what keeps people coming back to tabletop role playing games, whether you're playing Dungeons and Dragons or you're playing indie games games, you know, Blades in the Dark or. Or, you know, other games like Cthulhu, Vampire, the Masquerade. You know, there's so many amazing games. There's like indie games like Wanderhome and Wickedness and things like that. What keeps you coming back is what the company is giving you is a set of tools to make your own game. And that's what people get hooked on, is like, oh, I already have this group of friends that I think they're the funniest, smartest people in the world. I want to see what their creativity is rather than necessarily like, like consuming media passively. Could you give me a set of tools that me and the people I think are the best. We get to make our own story up. And that's just like, what a pitch. It's like a deeply intoxicating offer.
- [43:02]
Bob the Drag Queen
So do you play, like, other board games? Cause my boyfriend and I, we have board game night all the time. I need to invite you over. I want to see you play some other games, Brennan.
- [43:11]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Listen, I love board games. I have a little switch in my brain. Cause DD is fundamentally like. Like collaborative and cooperative, right? Like, even though we're adversarial, we're still trying to kind of tell a story together. So. But if we're.
- [43:25]
Monet X Change
Even though Monet was trying to fight me the entire time.
- [43:27]
Bob the Drag Queen
I was not going to fight you the entire time.
- [43:28]
Monet X Change
Yes, you were. You saying there are literally. You saying, we're gonna get you. We're gonna get you money. It's on camera.
- [43:36]
Bob the Drag Queen
It was at the beginning, before I realized we were in it together. At the beginning. I cuz you. I have.
- [43:40]
Monet X Change
You just said you weren't doing it, but you just said you were doing.
- [43:45]
Bob the Drag Queen
Only at the beginning. But you know, because you look like the. You look like a bitch I saw in the underworld before. And I didn't trust her, so that's why. At the beginning. But I learned to trust you, which is how I'm still learning this on this podcast, by the way. I figured that out. So I'm gonna say a few board games, Brennan, and I want you to say either Roll or Troll. By your expert board game brain in mind, can you disqualify?
- [44:06]
Monet X Change
Roll means you love it. Troll means you hate it. What does roll mean?
- [44:08]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yeah, roll is good. Troll is bad. You don't like it?
- [44:11]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Gotcha.
- [44:12]
Bob the Drag Queen
Catan Roll. I like catan too. It's fine.
- [44:17]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I'm getting that. I'm getting that longest road. I'm getting that longest road. I'm getting that. I'm getting the. I'm Stealing your stuff with knights. Listen, who thought a game with sheep? Was it sheep, bricks, wood.
- [44:31]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yes.
- [44:33]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
And stone.
- [44:34]
Bob the Drag Queen
And materials. Yeah. And you get to do. Yeah.
- [44:37]
Monet X Change
What's Catan?
- [44:38]
Bob the Drag Queen
It's a board game. You get these materials to build stuff, and it's hard to explain. I played it three times, but it's been fun.
- [44:45]
Monet X Change
You're eating the explanation here. It's a game monetization. It's a board game.
- [44:49]
Bob the Drag Queen
All right.
- [44:49]
Monet X Change
Thank you.
- [44:49]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yeah. Catan is like you're trying to beat these other people by collecting mineral, natural resources. The game is about making Christmas with family almost. Right. The game is. I don't know that I can talk to you anymore after what you did to me by putting the robber on that aisle. You know what you did, right?
- [45:13]
Bob the Drag Queen
Ticket to Ride.
- [45:16]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I've never played. I've never played. I've never played Ticket to Ride. Oh, wait, no. I have played Ticket to Ride. I'm gonna say roll. I played it one time with my friend John Timothy back in New York, and it was a lovely time.
- [45:27]
Bob the Drag Queen
I need to play with Bob. Bob would be a monster. Ticket to Ride. It would be, because, you know, Bob likes.
- [45:32]
Monet X Change
Isn't it the one where you build a.
- [45:34]
Bob the Drag Queen
Say it again. Yeah, the trains. Yeah, we did play that.
- [45:36]
Monet X Change
We did play that together.
- [45:37]
Bob the Drag Queen
Did you win?
- [45:39]
Monet X Change
I don't remember. No. No. You and I were the absolute worst. Jacob and Andy ruined us, and we were. You and I were the absolute worst of the game, actually.
- [45:50]
Bob the Drag Queen
Go Fish.
- [45:53]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Troll.
- [45:54]
Instacart Ad Speaker
Go Fish.
- [45:55]
Monet X Change
Is everybody.
- [45:56]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
The card game?
- [45:56]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yes.
- [45:57]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Go Fishes. Get troll.
- [45:58]
Bob the Drag Queen
From me.
- [45:59]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
You know what? No. I stand by it. I prefer to engage my games with a degree of civility and camaraderie. And I think that telling someone to go fish is dismissive and, frankly, rude.
- [46:14]
Monet X Change
And that's why Monet loves it. And that's why Monet loves it.
- [46:17]
Bob the Drag Queen
Secret Hitler.
- [46:19]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Oh, I've never gotten to play. I've never actually gotten to play. But this is one of those lying games, right? It's like a game.
- [46:26]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yeah.
- [46:27]
Monet X Change
I don't like the name of that game.
- [46:29]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Secret Hitler.
- [46:30]
Bob the Drag Queen
It's such a fun game.
- [46:32]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
It's an incredibly fun game. It's actually about defeating fascists as they attempt to take over the legislative process. But I will agree, Bob, that the name is very jarring. I got. I think they sent me, like, a sort of a box. Like a sort of, like, nice.
- [46:48]
Bob the Drag Queen
Like the deluxe wooden box.
- [46:49]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yeah, the deluxe wooden box, and it says Secret Hitler on it. And I was like, I don't know that I can just leave this out
- [46:57]
Monet X Change
but your boyfriend has a big box that says Hitler on that.
- [47:00]
Shannon Maldonado
But here's the thing.
- [47:01]
Monet X Change
They call it like defeating Hitler. I will say if you are a part of a group of people who has had a genocide or enslavement, I think that all people, not all, I'm assuming this, but a lot of Jewish people have fantasies of killing Hitler. And a lot of black Americans who are descendants of American chattel slavery have fantasies of fucking up slave owners and stuff. So if the game was called Kick Hitler's Ass, I think you might get more people on hand, on board.
- [47:31]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
There's a rebrand. There's a rebrand coming down the track, for sure.
- [47:34]
Bob the Drag Queen
Absolutely. And those are the four I wanted to ask. Bob, do you have anyone to add?
- [47:38]
Monet X Change
Well, Monet and I created a board game that we've not yet. You remember our board game. So Monet calls it a manic episode. It was not a manic episode, but I was like, we gotta make a game. We're gonna make a gang. I was inspired by.
- [47:54]
Bob the Drag Queen
We were in Aspen and we were playing this game. My boyfriend and I introduced Andy and introduced Bob to this board game. And Bob was like, oh, this game is great. So we played it like so many times on this trip. So after one night we were at the. We were at the Airbnb and Bob was like, we can make our own. So I was like, sure. From like 11 o' clock to like 5 o' clock in the morning. Bob was like, mona, you are not leaving this table until we finished making up this gig. We made like. We made up all the cards. What the die gonna look like, what the board is gonna look like. It was crazy.
- [48:23]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Wait, I wanna play. What's the game?
- [48:26]
Monet X Change
So we were inspired by the game. Is it King of Tokyo? Yeah.
- [48:28]
Bob the Drag Queen
King of Tokyo. Yeah.
- [48:29]
Monet X Change
So we were inspired by King of Tokyo. So we made a drag queen version of King of Tokyo. And I'm telling you, I have the whole thing in my Google Drive. We just need a really great graphic designer to help us with the cards. And then one day down the line, we will release our game. Maybe we'll release it just for like, you can download the cards and print them yourself, but donate something if you want. You know, I don't think we're gonna.
- [48:58]
Bob the Drag Queen
We're looking at it. Bob has a great. Bob has. Is a fountain of ideas. Bob has really good ideas for different cards and with different roles. Like, it was really a great process. But I was like this. I was like, we look like two crackheads here sitting up at this fucking laptop trying to make this game.
- [49:11]
Monet X Change
That was because we were doing crack while making the game.
- [49:14]
Bob the Drag Queen
I did a little. You did a lot.
- [49:16]
Monet X Change
Yeah. We also did do a little. A small amount of crack while making the game.
- [49:19]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
It's hard. You gotta keep the energy up while you're going. You gotta keep focus and I get it. Listen, hey, by the way, for real, you have my email. If you're looking for like game, graphic designer, whatever, we can make this dream a reality, just let me know.
- [49:32]
Monet X Change
We should do it because we already have the whole game made. The whole game is already mapped out. We just need someone to design the cards in the world. And maybe there's gotta be a way online to just put out PDFs and someone can just download all of them and print them out themselves.
- [49:49]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
There's some great. There's a lot, I think, like. Like this is where we're hitting the edge of my knowledge base. But there are sites like itch IO or drivethrurpg that you can upload PDFs of games and you can either make it like donation based or you can put a cost for the PDF. So yeah, absolutely. You can publish your games independently online through PDFs.
- [50:09]
Bob the Drag Queen
No, but we're going full monty. We're creating this game. We're getting the die done. We will be selling this drag queen game.
- [50:15]
Monet X Change
Well, not Monet and her capitalist. Monet and her capitalist.
- [50:18]
Bob the Drag Queen
I want to donate it all to Saga.
- [50:20]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
There you go. There you go.
- [50:22]
Monet X Change
Okay. Okay, first of all, Tag is not a charity. I'll be very clear to everyone. Is a union not enough.
- [50:34]
Bob the Drag Queen
So, Brandon, I have to say this, Bob. So juju got closure on her story. Alaska got closure. Bob and I are. We're still. Our stories are not done.
- [50:43]
Ryan Reynolds
I agree.
- [50:44]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I agree with you. And I think that's a very exciting place to end that as well. Because, I mean, so there's like definitely a seed of what is to come, right? Without spoiling the end of it all. Troian and Gertrude definitely have. There's a chapter break. Like a big breakthrough happened at the end for Gertrude and Troianne. But there's more yet to come. Listen, listen. Name the time and the place. I'm there, you know, or at least the place is the dome. Name the time. But yeah, truly, I would love to go back and see those characters again.
- [51:24]
Bob the Drag Queen
It'll be fun.
- [51:25]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I like it was. So my question for both of you, I'll turn it. I'm turning it on you. I have questions. My question for you is like, do you remember a moment where it felt like everything clicked for you at the table in terms of either. Where it clicked, like mechanically, where you're like, okay, I get my character. I get how you narrate actions and initiate combat and do dialogue. Or do you remember a moment where suddenly the world started to feel like, oh, I'm in this now. I'm not having to kind of push to perform. I feel totally engrossed in the world.
- [52:08]
Monet X Change
I know what it was for me and it was actually pretty early on. It was when it was around the time that we. It was right after. Cause there was actually. I had a spark and then a full on flame. The spark was when Alaska punched the tiny little gnome.
- [52:23]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Bump Williams. Yeah, the goblin.
- [52:24]
Monet X Change
Yeah, yeah, the goblin through the window. She's like, I want to hit this motherfucker. But when we gathered around the demon twins, the undead twink, Wallace, the undead twink. And then, you know, we're all like throwing like attacking him and trying to, you know, figure out what's up with this guy or something nefarious. And we, we actually figured it out like, like, I think it was Alaska or jujubee. It was one of them who, who, like, who was like his fucking. There's something funky going on with this guy. He's got a thing going on. And that was the moment for me where I was like, this is gonna, this is. I was already having fun. Like a little ha ha. But I was like, it's fun and exhilarating to solve the puzzles basically.
- [53:08]
Bob the Drag Queen
I think the most exhilarating part for me when I was like, oh my God, this is. I think my spark was when I realized my water walk. I think realizing that I had this thing all the time and I wasn't playing with all the tools that I had the whole time. I was like, oh, I have all these things I can access. I was like. But then when we had that big exchange at the bazaar, it was like crazy. And we like barely got. We got out there by the, by the hairs on our chinny chin chins. And then, and then from then on we as a group were deciding like what our next move was and how and how we were gonna proceed. I think that was my like, oh, like we are really out here like figuring the story out together and crafting it and Brennan's over here being the bad guy trying to get us.
- [53:49]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I'm all the bad guys. It's really wild to go because I always realize no matter how much you explain or how much you help people make their Characters. There's always these assumptions you make when you've been playing the game for a long time. That moment when Alaska looks up at me on camera and goes, wait, can we die? And I go, ah, I should have explained. Yes, you can die. You have these moments where it's not like the realizations about how deep the game can get are not linear. It's like this weird spider web that you're kind of like, oh, I'm seeing how deep into character I can get. I'm seeing how complicated my abilities are, but also how much I'm able to do with those abilities. And like, oh, that moment. So funny. There's like a little social clip of jujubee of it's Bob hitting a really critical nat 20. That's a total game changer and, like, turns the tide of fortune in the battle. And jujubee's like, ah. And has that moment and it's like, oh, I'm so. That was so straight of me. That was so bro of me to do. And it's such a funny moment because you really. It just takes you over like a spell and suddenly you're sitting there and you're like, yeah, I. Seeing that nat 20 come up flooded my brain with more endorphins. I'm, like, sweating. I was so nervous, and now I feel like I've literally survived something deadly. Like, that's the feeling of euphoria washing over me now.
- [55:15]
Monet X Change
I want to say we got a lot of NAT 20s, but by the way, the four of us, we did our number of NAT ones too. As much as we had some critical, like, we were. It was. There was a. Like a two. I mean, we. Our chunk where we were just rolling dust back to back to back. And I was like, no one touched the dice. No one fucking moved. Brennan has the Alaska goes. The dice are weighted.
- [55:46]
Bob the Drag Queen
I know I rolled it. And I don't think this is weighted the wrong way.
- [55:52]
Monet X Change
I really love the moment where me and Monet were really into, like, describing how we would do things. And then Alaska was like, same looks just like that.
- [56:03]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Looks just like that. God, the thing with the voice in the very final episode. Yeah. I don't want to spoil it, but.
- [56:10]
Monet X Change
Sorry, I had a little.
- [56:12]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Sorry. Yeah. God, that was so funny.
- [56:16]
Monet X Change
But Alaska is a really great comedian. She's so, so funny whenever I tour. I haven't toured with her in a long time, but when we were touring, we've done a few tours together. I'm just like, this bitch is just. Just so naturally funny in such A Bea Arthur deadpan, brilliant way. And I mean, I gotta say, I was really happy to have done it with the three people, the three drag queens and you, the five people that I did it with. It feels like the best way to ever D and D. And Brennan did let us know that if we ever invite him over, we will be very disappointed when he comes over with a little. A notebook.
- [56:54]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I got a notebook. I got a whiteboard with some dry erase markers. Production quality, going way down, way, way down.
- [57:03]
Monet X Change
I want to ask you before we get out of here, by the way, if you are interested again, I strongly recommend going to watch and exploring other seasons, too. I started looking at some of the other seasons because, you know, in the world of nerding, do you identify as nerds, by the way?
- [57:21]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yeah, I think that's accurate. I feel like a proud nerd. That's been true about me for a long time. I think that's accurate.
- [57:29]
Bob the Drag Queen
I don't think I'm a nerd. I think I'm nerd adjacent.
- [57:33]
Monet X Change
Well, that's why I think I'm a nerd, because, like, you know, what makes you really. When you. There's an awareness where you think your thing is, like, super cool. Like, when I was younger, I was in all these nerd worlds. It was, you know, Yu Gi, oh, and Digimon. But I really leaned into probably the nerdiest thing that you could ever lean into. And nothing will be more nerdy than the two things I fell in love with. One was professional wrestling, which became. Which is like, if you think the world of D and D is wild, baby, the world of WWF in the early 2000s, late 90s is truly, truly wild. And then, of course, Drama Club, which is every bit as nerdy as the next thing. And now, you know, we're doing drag, which is its own world.
- [58:14]
Bob the Drag Queen
See, I didn't do nerdy shit like that. I was in school. Chorus. That was my nerd.
- [58:18]
Monet X Change
Oh, no. Oh, sorry. Cool stuff. Oh, Monet was doing hip stuff.
- [58:25]
Bob the Drag Queen
Is cooler than wrestling.
- [58:27]
Monet X Change
Like school court. When I said no, I was doing hip things, I was, it's cool.
- [58:34]
Bob the Drag Queen
They're the fucking wrestling bitch. Anyway, Brennan, it really was. I am so happy that you guys asked me to be a part of the dimension 20 world. It is so fun. It really is one of the most fun times I've ever had on camera. And I've done three seasons of Drag Race. This was really so fun. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [58:57]
Monet X Change
I never got experien. My last question, which was, what is Next for Dimension 20, what do you guys have coming? I mean, I know you get spoilers, obviously. What can we look forward to in the future with D20? That's where I was going. I was going to get that.
- [59:10]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
We just started our newest side quest, which is Dimension 20 Men Topolis. It's like a film noir crime, crime story set, set in a mind. So it's like a city inside of a mind. So, like, the characters are like the brain. Like this. This person's brain has, like, the attention and impulse and consciousness and curiosity are all represented as like a gumshoe and a gritty and stuff like that. So it's very. It's like sort of like inside out
- [59:39]
Bob the Drag Queen
or like Osmosis Jones. Yeah.
- [59:41]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
But if it was like a gritty noir, like, inside the mind. So that's what we have right now. That's really, really fun. And we have two other seasons we've already recorded. And I'll say, too. But honestly, for anyone who's watching, one of the things that we really love that, like, a deep honor about doing Dungeons and Drag Queen Queens. So, yes, we have more seasons coming down the pipe. We're about to record another season in a couple weeks, which we're super excited about. We have, like, D20 through, like, the middle of next year already.
- [60:12]
Bob the Drag Queen
Wow.
- [60:13]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yeah. Hey, Devil works hard.
- [60:16]
Monet X Change
So if Dungeons and Drag Queens was Your First Division 20, what should the next one be? Because, you know, a lot of Drag Race fans do this. They're like, start with four, then go back to blah, blah, blah. Or Monet does this with Survivor. Monet's like, apparently. Apparently you can't. Why Survivor in order. I didn't know the rules, apparently.
- [60:32]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Yeah. You want to start, like, maybe All Stars or Pearl Islands or.
- [60:35]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yeah, literally what I say. Brennan. Yes. Thank you.
- [60:38]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Literally, you got. Yeah. Jump to see. That's like season eight. Like, you want to start around season eight.
- [60:41]
Shannon Maldonado
They.
- [60:41]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
They. It took them a couple seasons to figure it out.
- [60:43]
Bob the Drag Queen
Yeah.
- [60:45]
Monet X Change
So what should they watch after? If they watch. If they watch Dungeons and Drag Queens of us, what should they go to next?
- [60:49]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
So, number one, I just want to say, for the record, one of the most amazing things about Dungeons and Drag Queens. Queens is we. It obviously, we have been so excited to welcome all of the drag fans that are discovering Dropout. So excited to have all of our dropout D20 fans discover. I mean, they probably already knew, but the ones that didn't are discovering drag and perform all of our amazing performers. There's another. There's a third category of People that have been coming to Dungeons and Drag Queens that are just people who love watching an adventure of people learning the game and are literally like, hey, I didn't know about Dimension 20. I wasn't necessarily watching Drag Race. But these performers are doing such a great job of showing how you fall in love with the game. So weirdly, I think that Dungeons and Drag Queens is going to be a lot of people's first seasons going forward because it's so inviting, it's so welcoming to new people.
- [61:47]
Bob the Drag Queen
It's by about being there.
- [61:56]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Oh, my God. The seasons to check out after that. Here's the ones I would tell you to check out after that. Fantasy High is our very first season, and it's the one that has the most content behind it. Fantasy High is our first core season with our core cast that has. It's a High School for Heroes. So it's like D and D Breakfast Club, right? I would say that's a great one. I would say you could also, if you're looking for other similar, shorter ones, there's one called Misfits and Magic that is GM'd by my wonderful friend Aabria Iyengar, who's the greatest GM ever. She's like, the absolute.
- [62:36]
Bob the Drag Queen
Was a GM.
- [62:38]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
GM is game master. Because that season plays a different game than Dungeons and Dragons. It plays a little bit of a similar, simpler, more stripped down game called Kids on Brooms, which is like a school for magic. And then I would say other really popular seasons we have. There's a Crown of Candy, which is a really intense, dramatic season.
- [62:58]
Monet X Change
I saw the trailer for that one was wild. I was like, this is a round
- [63:03]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
of candy, a crown of Candy, which is like a mashup of Candyland with Game of Thrones.
- [63:10]
Bob the Drag Queen
Thrones.
- [63:10]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
So it's like. So it's like, you know. Cause you look at Candyland and you're like, oh, it's King Candy and Queen Frostine. And then you're like, Queen Frosty. And then you're like. But kings and queens historically have been some of the cruelest. Most like, are there, like, candy fiefdoms with, like, candy taxes being levied? So that season is like little gumdrop people being like, my lord, Bon Bon Town has been burned to the ground by raiders. Like, that's sort of the vibe of that.
- [63:37]
Bob the Drag Queen
Not Bon Bon Town.
- [63:38]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Not Bon Bon Town. And then the last one I recommend. Oh, sorry, Go for it.
- [63:41]
Monet X Change
Go ahead. I thought you were. Go ahead.
- [63:45]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I'd also recommend a lovely one to check out is a Starstruck Odyssey which is a super fun goofy. If you're into like that one's like very lots of high jinks and shenanigans. Which is a sci fi space opera. Hot suns, hot guns season.
- [64:00]
Bob the Drag Queen
Which is great to check even if
- [64:02]
Monet X Change
you don't watch each season. I'm telling you because I was going through each trailer to find out which one I wanted to watch and I literally couldn't decide one because they were just. They all sounded so good. I think I've decided now that I'm going to go back and watch the. The. The Candy Throne. The Candy Crown.
- [64:17]
Shannon Maldonado
Yeah.
- [64:18]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Crown of Candy. Oh, I think it's you.
- [64:20]
Shannon Maldonado
You.
- [64:20]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
If you watch that one, the vibe you will see people. People. There was a meme going around about me based because when I was playing with all of you, you're learning a game for the first time. So I wanted to be as welcoming and inviting as possible because like it's a bit like like I don't know if people appreciate the fucking chutzpah to be like a very like an extremely well known famous performer and go yeah. Put me on camera doing something I've never done before for the first time. Lot of fucking bravery. I take my hat off eternally to all of you for doing something so exciting and being so throwing yourselves into it now. So I was very welcoming in our game. Game in a crown of Candy. There's another side of me.
- [65:06]
Bob the Drag Queen
Listen, y' all better pony. Y' all know how to game work. Get this together.
- [65:13]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
There's the. That's the. That's the I'm gonna kill your dog side of me. That's the. That's the I'm all the bad guys fucking not hold. Not pulling any punches. So if you want to see a little bit of a harsher Brennan Lee Mulligan. A Crown of Candy's not a bad
- [65:26]
Monet X Change
place if you were the harsh Brinley Mulligan. Last thing I'll say. We will leave it on this. Google Brennan Lee Mulligan, Tony the Tiger. You will come back and watch this interview in a very Tony the Tiger. Very different manner. It is Britain was in these streets acting wild, honey wild. I just saw it on YouTube. Is it on Dropout or no?
- [65:53]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
I believe it's still on Dropout. So the aunt. That was an awesome. The. I think it was Brian Miller, Eli Yuden, Carolyn Page were the other players there. And it was a video podcast that was running on Dropout back a couple of years ago called Table Pop, which was like one shot pop culture, tabletop games. And that one was us playing a bunch of serial mascots.
- [66:16]
Monet X Change
No, no, no more. Just. Just Bradley Mulligan. Turn of the tiger. You will never, ever lose a good thing ever again.
- [66:24]
Bob the Drag Queen
Brennan, thank you so much for being here. This is really a treat to have you here. It's been fabulous having you.
- [66:29]
Brennan Lee Mulligan
Oh, God. It's a pleasure and an honor. I just. I'm such. I remain even. Even here talking, just shooting the breeze with both of you. I remain such an enormous fan. It is such an honor and a pleasure to be here. I just. You're the best. As often as I get to play with you both. It's. That's my heart's dearest wish, my kind God.
- [66:49]
Bob the Drag Queen
Now, what would you like to say to Bob?
- [66:52]
Monet X Change
Anyway, thank you all. We'll see you all on another episode of.
- [66:56]
Bob the Drag Queen
All right. Thank you, Brendan. Bye.
- [67:01]
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