The One About Gatekeeping

Summary

Sibling Rivalry – "The One About Gatekeeping"

Date: February 1, 2023
Hosts: Bob the Drag Queen and Monét X Change
Theme: A deep, hilarious, and sometimes spicy exploration of "gatekeeping"—what it means, how it shows up in drag, ballroom, Black culture, hair, art, and more.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Bob and Monét unpack the nuances of "gatekeeping," especially within queer communities and Black culture. From funny personal stories involving booking fees and babies napping in gigs, to larger questions about the authenticity, appropriation, and protection of culture, Black hairstyles, ballroom, and the legacy of drag, the duo covers a rich spectrum of discourse. The episode is peppered with their trademark banter, hot takes, and playful shade.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Gatekeeping (01:23-02:55)

• Monét: “On today’s episode, we find out if Bob a porn star... We talk about gatekeeping…”
• Bob (on ballroom): “You are not ballroom. You will never be ballroom. Stop it.” (02:06)

2. Dance Roots and Ballroom Lore (02:06-05:18)

• The hosts reminisce about their learning experiences in ballroom and whacking with House of Gucci and Princess Lockeroo—a “whacking queen of New York City,” described as “top three” in the world.
• Memorable Moment: Bob mentions teaching from “one of my drag kids, Princess Lockeru” (03:03), and her drag persona "Vaginasaurus Flex," which Monét remembers fondly.
• Ballroom and dance scenes as spaces of shared skill, multi-national connection, and passing on art through mentorship.

3. Is Drag for Everyone? Respect vs. Gatekeeping (05:58-08:55)

• Monét: “The art of drag is for everyone to partake in. We just ask… treat it with respect and you’re welcome to the community.” (05:58)
• Bob leans even more open: “If you don’t treat it with respect… I don’t really care. Is that horrible?” (06:13)
• They dive into the age-old debate: Should “baby queens” have to pay their dues before charging top dollar for shows?
• Monét: “When I was a local girl…this bitch who’d been doing drag for three months, talking about, 'yeah, my booking fee is $125.'” (07:06)

4. Gatekeeping vs. Realism in Drag Scenes (07:31-09:13)

• Bob questions if this is about gatekeeping or just being realistic: “Is that gatekeeping or being like… you’re just not being realistic?” (07:31)
• Booking fees matter, but so does the ability to draw crowds in a city with world-class entertainment competition.

5. Nepotism and Drag Careers (09:06-10:37)

• Banter about being a “Nepo baby” in drag—accusing each other of benefiting from drag nepotism and passing on gigs.
• Bob: “I gave you gigs. I handed you your career.” (09:40)
• Memorable Quote: “There’s literally a picture of me holding you like a baby.” (10:05)

6. “Have You Fucked a Porn Star?” and OnlyFans Reviews (11:03-16:27)

• Fun detour into sex work, audience confessions, and the business of reviewing OnlyFans.
• Bob: “I actually wanted to do a thing where I review OnlyFans on my TikTok…[but] I don’t want to mess with anyone’s bag.” (15:31)

7. The Economics of Content & Paywalls (16:27-18:24)

• The real cost of producing a successful podcast; justification for putting content behind a Patreon paywall.
• Monét: “It should cost a billion to make this pod…” (18:10)
• Bob: "It does cost...over $100,000 a year to make this podcast." (18:19)

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8. Race vs. Nationality and Identity Gatekeeping (19:19-21:24)

• They analyze the confusion between race and nationality, especially in identity (black, Puerto Rican, Mexican, etc.).
• Bob: “Puerto Rico is 17.5% black… Puerto Rico is blacker than America is.” (21:12)

9. Appropriation, Gatekeeping, and Hair (31:46-35:57)

• Discuss the thorny subject of hairstyles—box braids, cornrows, locs—when borrowed across racial lines.
• Monét: “If you are going to Miami Carnival and you want to put your hair up in cornrows and jump in a fet, sure...but don’t be, like, rocking it [and claiming as your own].” (35:29)
• Bob: “I do think some people look a little silly. Like, if you’re white with…box braids, you look a little silly. I do think you look a little silly sometimes.” (40:53)

[Notable Quotes]

• Bob (regarding white folks with box braids): "I do think you look a little silly sometimes." (40:53)
• Monét (on American gatekeeping): “Appropriation is such an American thing.” (31:56)
• Bob: “White people get to wear locs, then get to cut your...you are wearing a hairstyle black people get, like, oppressed for having. That makes sense to me.” (38:04)

10. What Is “Black Culture”? (43:15-45:33)

• Authors wrestle with how fragmented and varied Black culture is across the African diaspora, and with the concept of holding onto cultural roots that have been forcibly lost.
• Monét: “Black Americans need to, like, embrace…what Black American culture is, because it is something that is so rich and it means a lot to so many people.” (44:44)

11. Cultural Innovation vs. Appropriation: Rock & Roll Example (46:27-48:10)

• Bob reflects on Black innovation being appropriated—rock & roll’s transition from Little Richard to a white-dominated genre.
• Bob: "Let's imagine we gate kept rock and roll and never let the white people find out about it. Then it wouldn't be as big as it is today..." (47:04)

12. Bleeding Boundaries: Ballroom, Drag, and Mainstreaming (53:07-59:33)

• The viral moment: Anetra’s voguing on Drag Race, discussion on “noguing” (fake voguing, per Leiomy).
• Tension between authenticity and accessibility as drag and ballroom become more mainstream.
• Bob: “I wasn’t gatekeeping it. I think that the lack of gatekeeping in the drag community has allowed a lot of us to have a lot of success…”

13. Differences in Definitions & Community Responses (25:06-25:47)

• Bob & Monét refer to Urban Dictionary:
  • “Making your interest exclusive...to protect them from becoming mainstream.”
  • "When someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access to rights to a community or identity." (Most agreed-upon definition.)

14. Who Gets to Belong? Authenticity, Dance, and Ownership (59:33-61:43)

• Ballroom is not just voguing; it spans multiple categories and art forms.
• Respect for learning correctly, but also questioning how much ownership anyone can claim as art crosses boundaries.
• Monét: “Anetra did not go on TV...and be like, 'I am ballroom. I'm coming to...Drag Race to show people how to really vogue.' She is not claiming ballroom...Give this girl a break.”
• Bob: “...the lack of gatekeeping for ballroom...has allowed for these big moments like [Pose, Legendary]...”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• [07:42] Monét: "You need to come to my show and you need to...I need to see you putting your time in to become a New York City queen. So it is kind of gatekeeping."
• [21:12] Bob: "Puerto Rico...is blacker than America is."
• [31:56] Monét: "Appropriation is such an American thing."
• [40:53] Bob: "If you’re white with, like, box braids, you look a little silly. I do think you look a little silly sometimes."
• [44:44] Monét: "Black Americans need to...embrace what Black American culture is, because it is something that is so rich and it means a lot to so many people."
• [47:04] Bob: "Let's imagine we gate kept rock and roll and never let the white people find out about it. Then it wouldn't be as big as it is today."
• [53:07] Bob: "Anetra...[was] voguing or as Leiomy has coined the term, noguing...not actually learning from ballroom people."
• [58:29] Bob: “There’s this insinuation that, like, drag and ballroom have no overlap, which is not [true].”

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Key Timestamps of Major Segments

• 01:23 — 02:55: Episode theme; ballroom intro and skills
• 05:58 — 09:13: Drag as art for all, booking fees, local queen stories
• 19:19 — 21:24: Race vs. nationality, identity gatekeeping
• 31:46 — 35:57: Black hair and cultural appropriation/appropriateness
• 40:53: Bob’s take on white folks with box braids
• 46:27 — 48:10: How Black cultural contributions get absorbed/appropriated (rock & roll example)
• 53:07 — 59:33: The Anetra/“noguing” discussion and ballroom’s evolution
• 61:41 — 71:50: Humorous tangent: who would win in a drag queen fight; wrestling promo brainstorm; gatekeeping in other professions

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Tonal Highlights

• Candid, funny, and honest; sometimes playful, sometimes pointed.
• Both hosts oscillate between defending tradition and celebrating openness, often with sharp-witted banter.
• Openness to learning, willingness to admit when they don't have all the answers (“Maybe we need someone who's like, I'm gay, gatekeeping down.”)

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Key Takeaways

• Gatekeeping can protect communities and art forms, but it can also stifle growth and accessibility.
• The boundaries between appreciation, appropriation, and participation are deeply contextual and ever-shifting.
• Drag, ballroom, and Black culture have all been shaped by the tension between mainstreaming and holding space for authenticity and legacy.
• Not all forms of restriction are gatekeeping—sometimes, it’s just realism, sometimes it's responding to oppression.
• There’s power in having a nuanced, ongoing, and communal conversation about who gets to belong.

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Coming Attractions

• The hosts tease bringing in Leiomy Maldonado for a deeper ballroom/gatekeeping discussion.
  "Next thing you know, we'll soon have an episode with Leiomy Maldonado...where we will be able to talk about all of this, honey." (71:50)

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For listeners:
This episode is a goldmine for anyone interested in drag, queer history, Black culture—and who enjoys audacious, thought-provoking, and hilarious commentary. It might just shift how you think about who “owns” culture, who gets to play, and when it’s time to let the gates open.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

My name is Bob the Drag Queen.

[C]

And I'm Monet X Change.

[B]

And this is Sibling Rivalry.

[C]

On today's episode, we find out if Bob a porn star.

[B]

We talk about gatekeeping, and we find

[C]

out what made Bob say this.

[B]

Like, if you're white with, like, box braids, you look a little silly. I do think you look a little silly sometimes. And we find out what made Monet say this.

[C]

And now you. You. You have to fucking convince me that you or your sneaky little boyfriend didn't do that. I know it's one of the two of y'.

[B]

All. It's. It's another episode of Sibling Rivalry. It's another episode of Siba. Siba, Siba. Cac rhyme to the right.

[C]

You are not ballroom. You will never be ballroom. Stop it.

[B]

I'm not. Well, I. You know, you could become ballroom. But I learned this from the. Well, me and you both were learning how to.

[C]

The House of Furino.

[B]

No, no, from House of Gucci.

[C]

I know. I'm just joking about Mitch. House of Gucci used to always be. Mitch used to always give us.

[B]

I got better after working with them. I got better at it.

[C]

I have, too. I was better on tour, and now I stopped practicing. They always say, monet, just follow. Make them follow each other like that. I was like, oh, yes, there we go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

D's following. Dyu is so good. Dyu in Brooklyn. That's their move. Like, Dyu in Brooklyn. They be doing it so slick. It looks so good. And gravity. Gravity is insane.

[C]

Like gravity Gravity is made out of noodles. Gravity is made out of pasta. The thing that make pasta with. That's what gravity's body's made out of.

[B]

Yeah. And, you know, I used to get a lot of lessons from one of my drag kids, Princess Lockeru.

[C]

Princess Lockeroo, who is the whacking queen of New York City. She just tagged us in something recently. I love Princess Lockeroo.

[B]

Love her.

[C]

She's a great queen.

[B]

Now, if you don't know, Princess Lockeroo is probably like, the, like, when it comes to whacking, which is like this kind of, like, dance style that has connection through. Through disco and ballroom.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And she is. She's like, probably the number one whacker in the world, like, when it comes to whacking. She's like. She's top three. She's amazing.

[C]

Yeah. Princess Locker room is everything. One of more of Bob's children that he's abandoned.

[B]

That's not true. First of all, she. She didn't do drag for long. She had a dragon name, Vaginasaurus Flex. Did you ever see her do Vaginasaurus Flex?

[C]

Yes, Yes, I remember.

[B]

And I think that she was more focused on her career as a dancer than as a drag superstar. But Vaginasaurus Flex lives in my heart. And if Vaginosaurus Flex and I are ever in the same town again and she's Vaginosaurus Flexin, I would love to have. Cause she's insane. She used to come to the Monster and do shows at Liquing.

[C]

I remember. And she did a few shows with you at Barracuda. Or like, she would come and do, like, a number together. What's that other Pangina?

[B]

Oh, no. Oh, no, because Pangina used to work with. Pangina used to work with locker room. That's how I met Pangina.

[C]

Oh, really? Out.

[B]

Out of drag. Yeah. And then she moved. She moved back to Thailand, and I saw her. Next thing I knew, she was hosting Drag Race. I said, well, hello, somebody. The chubby girl.

[C]

The chubby woman.

[B]

Oh, my gosh, she was everything. Mayu.

[C]

Mayu. Mayu.

[B]

Me.

[C]

No, it's close. We're in. We're in the vicinity.

[B]

It was like my. You or something. Or. Mio.

[C]

Yeah, Mio.

[B]

Mio. Her name was like, Mio the star or something like that on Instagram. But, man, this girl. I was blown away by this girl who's. So locker room used to bring a bunch of different.

[C]

Because a lot of people just like voguing. Whacking will bring a lot of people from different countries, and different would be able to come to New York City for these whacking conventions, kind of.

[B]

Yeah. And Mayu. Mayu.

[C]

I don't remember.

[B]

Anyway, she was one of the kids. One of the. My kids. They're all adults that lockerou brought to. I hate that I do that. I really want to stop calling people kids because they're. And it makes me sound 90,000 years old is what it makes me sound.

[C]

Just like with me and girls. I hate when I say girl. Women. These are grown women or boys. Men, more. So I do it with girls and women. I really want to stop doing that. Oh, my God. I just. Did you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're hooked. But anyway, I think her name was Mayu. But anyway, Mayu came up on stage and did a single Lays with Me years ago at Barracuda. And she was just an insane. And she actually hit the drag scene a little bit too.

[C]

Yeah. You know, drag is. The art of drag is for everyone to partake in. And we just ask that when you come into the house, you take your shoes off. Don't be stomping around walking on the furniture with your. You know, don't be like, leaving the fridge open. Just treat it with respect and you're welcome to the community.

[B]

I don't even know that I ask all that, because if you don't treat respect, I don't really. Is that horrible? I'm like. I don't really care. Like, if you. If you're, like, if you're doing it, whatever. Like, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe I'm. I mean, we're jumping into the topic a little too early. But, like, I'm. I'm just. I'm not really a gatekeeper. Not really.

[C]

I mean, we kind of talk about this on Sibling Watchery when we talked about. When we talk to. Oh, my God, let me. My notifications are going the hell off, and it is just really. It's so loud in my ear. Do not disturb.

[B]

Why am I heating.

[C]

We kind of talk about this in something Watchery with Malaysia and Mistress, like, being so gagged. Like the young Babydoll being so gagged that these girls have been doing drag for like a year.

[B]

No, her name is. Her name is Malaysia Babydoll. But I just love Babydoll. Something by calling her Babydoll is great to me. Babydoll.

[C]

Yeah, we kinda. And it's not gatekeeping, but it's just like, you know, I mean, I will say I had those feelings more so when I was a local girl. When I was a local girl working My gigs working like six gigs a week. And then this bitch who will come into the bar after doing. I have never seen this bitch ever out in drag. She'd been doing drag for three months, talking about, yeah, my booking fee is $125.

[B]

I'm like, your booking fee, bitch, if

[C]

you don't sit your booger bitch ass down. And your booking fee is not.

[B]

Is that gatekeeping or being like. You're just not being realistic? Like, is that gatekeeping? To be like, bitch booking. Fe. Are you joke as Monique? I miss when you say that. Are you joke?

[C]

Well, I think it's a little gatekeeper. Because I'm like, no. Cause I'm like, no, you need to pay your dues. You kind of just pop up and tell me 125. I was like, you need to pay. You need to come to my show and you need to. I need to see you out at Queen at the Help. I need to see you doing Star Search. I need to see you putting your time in to become a New York City queen. So it is kind of gay.

[B]

I don't necessarily believe that because I think you can ask for it, and if you can get it, you better work. I don't think it is realistic to pop up and ask for that and expect to get it. Part of me is like, you're like, I'm not. If you're a baby queen, I'm not going to pay you $150 to come and perform my show. Because I've never even, like, I don't. I don't know if you're even good. And also a big part of having people at your show in New York City. It's not just. It's not just like, ooh, what can you add to my show? It's also, who can you bring to my show? We are like, like, especially back then, we were like local artists trying to, like, it took so much to build up a fall. Y' all don't understand how hard it is to build up a following in New York City when we're not. You're not just competing with other drag queens. You're competing with Broadway. Like, bitch, my rival is fucking Hamilton.

[C]

Book of Mormon.

[B]

Book of Mormon. You know what I mean? Phantom of the Opera. Like, I'm asking you to come to my show when you could go see world class singers and I'm over here telling my little jokes.

[C]

You know what I mean?

[B]

You want to see my joke? You can go to Caroline's comedy club and see, like, some of the top Comedians in the world and see them

[C]

tell them joke that Bob been ripping from them.

[B]

Yes, that is money. Do not spread. Let's talk about jokes you've been ripping from me. And also everyone agree that you're a Nepo baby. Thank you and everyone in the comments for agreeing.

[C]

And everyone, thank you. I'm not your Nepal. Okay? Just because they say it doesn't mean it's true. And number one, they pointed out all the ways that yo bitch ass is a Nepo baby. So say you're gonna take that.

[B]

No, no, no.

[C]

Eat that medicine too.

[B]

You're saying they were like, Bob is Bianca and Peppermints and Sherry vine the Bo baby. No, I got inspired by them, but I did not use their merits to make it big. And you literally.

[C]

Literally, you literally.

[B]

You literally took.

[C]

You literally took Peppermint's merit on Monday nights to build your career.

[B]

And you that. And you use my name. I got your gigs. Peppermint never got me gigs. Peppermint gave me inspiration in life. I gave you gigs. I handed you your career. I handed you gigs that you could have never gotten unless I gave you the gigs.

[C]

You are.

[B]

I stepped down. So you drinking again.

[C]

You are drinking again.

[B]

I stepped down so you could step up.

[C]

You are drinking again. You are ridiculous.

[B]

So you're my Nepo baby. My little. There's literally a picture of me holding you like a baby.

[A]

Literally.

[B]

Put the picture on the. Put the picture on the motherfucking screen.

[C]

Against my will. I didn't want to do that photo shoot. You literally dragged me to Preston's house. Like, Monae, please. Can we please? I was like, okay, sure.

[B]

You introduced me to Preston. I didn't even know Preston was before that photo shoot.

[C]

And then you went behind my back to do that photo shoot, and I was like, okay, I guess.

[B]

Let me find my Nepo baby photo. Jacob. We'll find it later. But that Nepo baby. Anyway, Monae, you're a Nepo baby. It's okay.

[C]

Nothing wrong being a Nepo baby, not a Meo baby. Time out really quick. But your shirt say Tyrese. Tyrese. Tyrese, like the singer Tyrese?

[B]

No, the Tyrese. The. The performer. They're. They're. They were on Slag War season one. I was obsessed with them.

[C]

Oh, so you bought their merch?

[B]

Yeah. Jacob got it for me as a gift. And I love this sweatshirt. And I love Tyrese. Tyrese is hot. I love me some Tyrese.

[C]

I have a question.

[B]

I have an answer.

[C]

Have you ever fucked a porn star?

[B]

Uh, a porn star? I've fucked a few people with onlyfans, but I don't know if I would call them porn stars.

[C]

Okay, but not like someone who is, like, at Cocky Boys or Macho Fuckers.

[B]

I don't think so. Have you?

[C]

No.

[B]

I feel like the guys I hook up with aren't usually the porn star types. Like, you know, I feel like they're a little more hippie looking usually than

[C]

they have hippie porn stars.

[B]

Yeah, I guess so. But I feel like they're all, like, muscle twinks and, like, big strong daddies and, like, really muscly. And I don't really hook up with that many muscly guys. Nothing against muscly guys. It's just not really my vibe.

[C]

Well, I was recently at a party, and, like, I knew that it was one porn star there, and then I bounced to this other guy at the party. I was like. And the whole. I saw his face, and this person looks so familiar. And then I'm walking around a party, and then, you know. And I didn't talk to him right away. Like, maybe like half an hour into the party. I ended up being in the same little, like, party circle with him. Like, a conversation. I was like, you know what? You look so familiar.

[B]

I just cannot tell.

[C]

Like, did you start in New York?

[B]

He was born.

[C]

He was like, no. I was like, have you ever hung out with. He's like, no, I don't even know those people. I was like, but I know you from somewhere. He was like, I know where you know me from. And I was like, where? And he was like, I'm a porn actor. I was like, I don't know you from porn. I was like, I don't remember. I was like, I wouldn't know what your dick looks like, what your ass or your hole looks like. I don't think so. He was like, that's why you know me from porn. And he was like. I was like, oh, okay, wait, where was this at? This was at the New Year's Eve party I went to.

[B]

Was it Jesus really on? Because there's a. I don't even know if that's still his name on Twitter, but there was a guy on Twitter named Jesus. Really? Who you and I used to both talk about. And then I saw him. I saw him at a. He was go going recently, and I was like, man, you look so familiar. I don't know. And I literally had the exact same. I was like, I don't know what it is about you, but I swear I've met you somewhere. Before, Right? And he was like, well, you know. And I was like, what? And he was like. And I was like, what? He was like. And I was like, oh, his name was like, Jesus. He's like, I cannot remember his. His name was Jesus.

[C]

All.

[B]

I remember that his name was Jesus, and. But he's Jesus.

[C]

Really.

[B]

His name used to be Jesus. Really?

[C]

Oh, my God. But I think I didn't even say Siri. Why is Siri going off? Wait.

[B]

I think because he is a. A porn actor. His account's probably been deactivated a few times.

[C]

Twitter does that. But every bitch. Everybody have got everything?

[B]

No. Oh, what's that one guy's name with a big fat booty? He's a black guy. He has a gorgeous butt. And he was at the Nokember. He was at the night that you and I performed at Hart. Or maybe it was the night that I performed. I sing.

[C]

Oh, the white guy.

[B]

No, he's a black guy.

[C]

The white guy.

[B]

No, he's a black guy.

[C]

Judas.

[B]

Judas King. So this guy hangs out with Judas a lot. Or at least I saw him with Judas anyway. And he was like, girl, it's porn. And I was like, girl, you're right, girl. Clutch.

[C]

Judas King.

[B]

Judas King has a great, wonderful.

[C]

He's always around in WeHo. Yeah, he's hot. His body. Judas is hot.

[B]

I agree. Very hot. Glad we're on the same page about this. I'm glad me and Monet are brave enough to share these really unpopular opinions.

[C]

Yeah, Judas is hot. But, yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, I've never hooked up with anyone when I was a woman of the world. I've never. Not that I wouldn't. No one in porn was looking to have sex with me, so it didn't happen.

[B]

I can't find the other person who I thought was. Who I didn't know. Whatever. I'm like. I hate when I get in a thing and I'm like, I have to find this. And I end up spending my entire time with someone looking for a thing, and I never find it.

[C]

Oh, we know. I've witnessed it many times.

[B]

Since you're in the business of witnessing,

[C]

do any of our patrons or any of our listeners, if y' all are. If y' all do onlyfans or porn, can y', all, like, put a thing in the comments?

[B]

I want to, like, see we do another swimming jerkery. You know, I actually wanted to do a thing where I review only fans on my TikTok. But the reason why I don't want

[C]

to do it YouTube Back in the day.

[B]

The reason why I don't want to do it is because I don't want to mess with anyone's bag. My idea would be like, is it like, is this OnlyFans worth it? In my opinion, but if I click on your only fans, then it's not worth it. Like, I don't. I'm not saying that you. You don't have the right to put on your only fans whatever you want to put on there, but I would just be like, based on me and what I like to spend, so I wouldn't show their content. I would just like, maybe give some vague descriptions of what I'm seeing. I'd be like, there is some oral sex, there is some fucking. There is some. Most is mostly solo stuff and in my opinion is worth it. Or like, it's just literally pictures that you could put on Instagram but a little more risque. So to me, it's not worth it. But a lot of the only fans thing is like, what's behind the paywall? What's behind the paywall?

[C]

Yeah. You know, some people get like that about our patron. Like, I posted today that part one of me and Paul reviewing the thing is on bitch. The amount of comments I got were like, wow, really? On Patreon, behind a paywall?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Bitch.

[B]

It costs money to make this. In fact, we'll tell you more about how much money it costs when we get back on this break.

[A]

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[C]

Close your eyes, exhale.

[A]

Feel your body relax, and let go

[C]

of whatever you're carrying.

[A]

Today well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fun.

[C]

And breathe.

[A]

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[C]

1-800-contacts. It should cost a billion to make this pod. Uh huh, uh huh. But you make it look easy. Cause we got it. Kitty cat, cat, cat.

[B]

It costs billions. But it does cost hundreds of thousands. Over $100,000 a year to make this podcast.

[C]

Exactly. So probably.

[B]

No, I would say it cost hundreds of thousands a year to make this podcast.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. So I'm like, I can't believe you and Bob will put it on on our Patreon behind a paywall. Really? Girl?

[B]

Well, someone got. Girl, I got a message today that was like wild. I was kind of cackling and gag. I was like, oh my God.

[C]

What?

[B]

This guy was like, bob, it was a picture of me. They shared a picture of me and was like, I hate this dumb who's always talking just to hear himself speak. I am Mexican and Mexicans are real. And I was like, what, What? Is that what you got out of what I said? I didn't say Mexicans aren't real. That's not what I said.

[C]

Well, I think that we should do a. That's another thought too. So I was reading some of the comments and I think we should do a whole podcast about that because I think we can. We can talk ad nauseam about it. And also someone who is a social scientist comments on our Patreon. I think we should invite them to name was Adam or Abraham something.

[B]

Yeah, the social scientists. All. All they said was like, Bob, I. I implore you to think of a different. They didn't say, you're wrong. But I do agree that the. The what? And I will give you a brief view of what I said and then I'll move on. I was talking about how race and nationality are not the same thing. So. So you probably already heard it, but Jack said she's half black, half Puerto Rican, But Puerto Rico is not a race. But there, there are. There is a race of people who are indigenous to Puerto Rico, but there are people who are also all white. And Puerto Rican is white, fully white and also fully. And he's Puerto Rican. But then also people like Lupita Nyong' O who is black and she is Mexican. She's not half Mexican or she's fully black because that's her race and she's fully Mexican because her nationality.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. But I think it would be a very interesting pod and I think we should. We can do a whole podcast about it. It'd be very cute.

[B]

But the guy said, I am Mexican and I'm real. And I was like, what do you think I said? You think I said Mexicans are fake? There are no Mexicans. She was Mexican. She didn't want Puerto Rican.

[C]

Puerto Rican.

[B]

She's Mexican. She went Puerto Rican.

[C]

Not by trying to gatekeep race.

[B]

I'm not. I'm just saying that that's like saying, I'm half black, half American. I'm half black, half American. What does that mean? There are lots of black people in Puerto Rico. Like a lot of black people in Puerto Rico.

[C]

Well, I will say people need to. I mean, again, I feel like we're getting to the top. It's like Americans need to be more confident about identifying as American because there is an American culture and I feel like whiteness. We can't. We're gonna go into this whole.

[B]

Also, just to be clear, Puerto Rico, percentage wise, is blacker than America. I just googled it. Puerto Rico is 17.5% black as the percentage. Puerto Rico is blacker than America is.

[C]

Okay, we cannot. We cannot go deeper. We need to go to the top. We talk about Puerto Rican.

[B]

I want to do a video where I have, like a long blonde. We can go o. I feel European honey peeing peace. I thought she was European. And then do some German song like,

[C]

oh, my God, you're. You. You are. You are coming for. Not coming for German. But your interpretation of what German sounds

[B]

like, that wasn't good German. That was like Swedish. I actually did Swedish. My. My German is like, Hieg spleigen mixing

[C]

zonenkreis ein fter.

[B]

Well, no, you're speaking real German. That's not fair. You have to do fake German.

[C]

Do. I can't do fake, honey. I don't even know the real thing.

[B]

Knows one opera. Now she's. Now she's fucking sprinkled the Deutsch. Now she's could do fake French. Frake French. Wait, Monet has to do fake German first. Do a little fake German.

[C]

I don't even know how to do it fake. I need to really think about it because I don't even know fake stuff. Yeah, is still.

[B]

And my fake French would be tendress. Oui, oui. Oui, Oui, Oui, Oui,

[A]

oui.

[B]

Skip. Wee wee bitch. Oui, oui. Okay, fake Italian. Fake Italian be.

[C]

But, you know, we went to go to the store.

[B]

No, that's. That's English, Monet. That's English. You're speaking English with an Italian accent.

[C]

Italian accent. Okay, well, Jacob didn't specify Italian accent on Italian language.

[A]

Fake.

[B]

A timer for me would be.

[C]

Mussolini. Mussolini. Antipasti burrata.

[B]

He's just saying food and people.

[C]

People. Why did I go to Mussolini? Oh, God. Not evoking Mussolini's name. Jesus Christ.

[B]

The last one was you is Russian. Oh, what do Russians sound like?

[C]

Dobrajutro.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Monet, how do you feel about. Okay. Do you gatekeep? You mentioned earlier you gatekeep drag a little bit. Do you gatekeep? Do you gatekeep with your West Indian culture? Do you gatekeep? Can I make. Can I make curry goat?

[C]

Yeah, you can. I do not gatekeep West Indian culture. I do not gate. I think drag is the only thing I gatekeep just a little bit and on. And I wouldn't even call that gatekeeping. I would just because I think it directly, like, affected me. Like someone I really got. That is a. What I told was a true anecdote. A younger queen really came. Like, I saw her. She came to my gig one time and asked and told me her booking fee was $125 because I was inviting her to come and do a number. And I was so gagged, I was like, no, this raggedy bitch didn't just tell me her fee is $125 when I never even met her before. But there's no other way. I feel like I gatekeeper.

[B]

According to urbandictionary.com this is what gatekeeping is. When someone. According to urbandictionary.Com gatekeeping is making your interest exclusive in order to protect them from becoming mainstream. And according to Wikipedia, a gatekeeper is a person who controls access to something, for example, via a city gate or a bouncer. Oh, that's the actual gatekeeping. No.

[C]

So, yeah, yeah. Like, in a literal. Yeah.

[B]

So you're trying to see what you were doing. That queen was gatekeeping. I don't think what you do. That queen was gatekeeping. I think what you were doing, that queen was like, was a reality check because you weren't trying to stop her from doing drag. You just said a bitch. I'm not paying you 125. According to Urban Dictionary, gatekeeping is when someone use a hobby or an interest as a Means of elevating. Wait, I keep reading it wrong. There's others. There's multiple. There's multiple. There's two. The first one says gatekeeping is. Is to make your interest exclusive in order to protect them from becoming mainstream. That one has 258 likes, meaning that's a very popular one. And then this one has 2877 likes. This one is when someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access to rights to a community or identity.

[C]

That's the one I feel like most people know. That's that one. That one has the most definition.

[B]

It has the most likes. Honestly, Urban Dictionary is, like. It used to kind of be, like, a joke, but it's, like, really fierce and, like, it actually has. It actually is, like, kind of really great with being an arbiter of what language is and how it changes and evolves.

[C]

Do you want to look up something else in Urban Dictionary?

[B]

What?

[C]

A spot. Because it's in there.

[B]

Did you add it?

[C]

I did not add it. Can I just add stuff it's not?

[B]

Yeah. Urban Dictionary is not Wikipedia, and it would tell us who added it to. So if you. If you. If you did it, we'll know. So I'm ready to expose you, honey. The A spot has practically no upvotes.

[C]

And it says, stop giving us just.

[B]

I'm not kidding. The A spot. The number one. The number one definition. Monique, I'm not making this up. The number one. The first definition. It's not the first one that says, I don't know, is something Monet made up. It has 100. I am not lying. It has 141 up. 142. I just clicked it. It says, I don't know. Is something Monet made up. And then the next most popular one, it says British slang for well done. No spot on. Actually, the only thing on the A spot is just. Oh, then there's the one that. There's one that has less likes. Oh, my God. This is crazy. The two versions are one that says a male version of a G spot that says that has 86 likes. And the one that says something Monet made up has 142 likes.

[C]

And now you. You. You have to fucking convince me that you or your sneaky little boyfriend didn't do that. I know it was one of the two of y'. All.

[B]

Monet.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

It says. It says right here. Was added by sarahschool33.

[C]

That's Jacob's pseudonym. Go ahead.

[B]

Honestly, I'm gagged. And it has 100. And after this is gonna get a lot more likes, run over to urbandictionary.com and upvote something Monet made up.

[C]

Anyway, so, yes, that second one you read earlier, I think that's the more. That is the more common definition of gatekeeping that a lot of people do. Do you think. Is there anything that you gatekeep, not drag anything?

[B]

I'm trying to think to myself. Not really, because. Okay, so here's the thing. You know, I don't. Maybe there was a point where I. Because I. I. Okay, I am part of the mainstreaming of drag. I started Drag because of RuPaul's Drag Race. I saw. I was very early on this. I saw season one, and I jumped on. This was. It was so much fun. So I will say, when I started drag, it was still. It was a lot more underground than it is now. Like, there was, like. You didn't have an agent unless you were RuPaul or you were on Drag Race.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, now I know local girls with. With managers. I'm like, what? How are you a local girl with a manager? This is, like, crazy to me. Yeah, this is like, who are you giving? 10% of your money and you're making, like, $60,000 a year. How are you doing this? How are you giving. How are you making 125, and you're giving someone $12 per gig? What is popping? You know what I mean?

[C]

I mean, But I mean, if it works for them, I mean, and I know that I think we're talking about the same girls and back, and I think some of them have gone on Drag Race since then, but. Yeah, I mean, it worked for them, though. They were doing, like, little. Little commercial and TV things here and there, so I guess it worked.

[B]

No, it was. It was really fierce. And that was the. I think that was the mainstreaming of drag. Drag has definitely gone a lot more mainstream now than it was back in my day. And we were just, you know, at the bars, hosting karaoke in New York City. You know what I mean? But I wasn't gatekeeping it. And I think that the lack of gatekeeping in the drag community has allowed a lot of us to have a

[C]

lot of success because it's not being gatekept.

[B]

Yeah. Jacob, what's your question?

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

During quarantine, there was that conversation about how certain queens in control of, like, bookings and gigs were gatekeeping, like, bookings from certain queens and holding. Oh, and I remember legitimate thing.

[C]

It was, are you Talking about the Chicago situation.

[B]

I'm talking about the Chicago situation. Can you talk about it? I don't remember. Can you talk about it again? Oh, you mean the town hall.

[C]

Yeah, the town hall. Yes. Correct.

[B]

Based off that definition, is that gatekeeping or is that just like. You mean when the white queen was stopping girls from doing it? That's not gatekeeping as much as that is oppressing. It's not gatekeeping. Yeah.

[C]

About to say. I was like. I was like. The difference in that is that there is, like a. There is a power dynamic. So someone has the power and they're not willing to share it. Not to. Not to stop it from being mainstream. They're just being oppressive.

[B]

Do you believe in gatekeeping, like black hair and clothing and stuff and black music?

[C]

Well, you know, I feel like, what's

[B]

up with, like, Iggy Azalea being in rap? Should we have gatekeep rap more? So Iggy Azalea couldn't be a rapper?

[C]

Well, I think that that breaks into another conversation. Because, you know, when you think about rap, like, rap was obviously started by. By black and brown people in. From urban areas, whatever. And that's who popularized and made rap. But rap has spread, right? We have so many different types of rap now. And it is socially acceptable for everyone to participate in the art form that is rap. Whether it's Iggy Azalea, whether it's Meghan Trainor, whether It's Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, whoever it is. And I think that Meggie Train as a rapper is right.

[B]

Art.

[C]

I mean, I wouldn't. I'm. I'm being a little hyperbolic. I don't think Meghan Train identifies.

[B]

I wanna be me too I wanna be me too I wanna be me, nugga.

[C]

You know what I mean? So I think that's what art does. Art spread. But then you start going into where, like, if Iggy Azalea is now doing her rap and cornrowing her hair and wearing bamboo earrings and saying the N word like that, then you are crossing over into something that is problematic.

[B]

So do you believe in gatekeeping, like hairstyles and stuff? Do you believe in being like, you guys can't braid your hair. You guys can't wear cornrows. You guys can't do this, that and the other.

[C]

Well, this is this. I'm so happy you bring that up because appropriation is such an American thing. And I was watching. I was talking kimchi, and I was having this conversation because, you know, kimchi is South Korean. I'm from the West Indies. And when, like, for example, in St. Lucia, in a lot of the West, Indominica, Trinidad, Barbados, wherever, every year they have Carnival, right? And you see people from all over the world, Asian people, white people, Latin people, whoever it is, they're all coming to the islands and they are participating in Carnival, where they're. So a lot of them are braiding their hair up because white people, whoever it is, braiding their hair up because it's a protective hairstyle, and they're putting on the flag colors and they're wearing the costumes.

[B]

I've never even been to Jamaica before, but I know for a fact from people who have visited Jamaica, like, if you walk through the streets of Jamaica, on certain streets, people will be like, let me braid your hair. Let me braid your hair. It's like a thing that they're like, the black Jamaicans there are like, we're gonna braid your hair. We're gonna put bees in your hair.

[C]

That's everywhere. That's a lot of so. So. So it's like. It's not a thing. It's a very Americanized thing. And I think America has this weird thing with culture. And again, because we're such a young nation, we're still trying to figure it out. But a lot of St. Lucia is, too. St. Lucia has only had their independence for 20 something. Not. Sorry, like 40 something years. So, yeah, I don't know. It's a very American thing. It's not a problem anywhere else. Kimchi was saying this too, because when we went to South Korea, we were watching the drag show, and this woman had this beautiful hanbo on. She was doing this number. I was like, bitch, this number is dope. I was like, I wish I could get a kimono and do. And do a number like that. And Kim was like, well, why can't you? I was like, girl, people in America would eat me up. She was like, so who cares? She's like, come and do it. She's like, no Korean person would have a problem with it. And again, that's just Kim Chi's perspective, right? She doesn't just think, I love that.

[B]

You said that too. Because someone pointed out that when Adele went to Jamaica for. For whatever she was there for, and she had her hair up in the bed, two knots, and she's wearing the Jamaican flag and have the thing on. Someone was saying, like, Jamaicans were lit. I'm not Jamaican. I am not Jamaican. But apparently Jamaicans were, like, living. But everyone else, like, look at this. White. But also, I don't think I don't think Adele is very influential. I don't think Adele has the power to appropriate the Jamaican flag in a way that anyone would think it came from Adele. Like, I don't think anyone would be like, Adele's Jamaica. Adele made Jamaicans Jamaica.

[C]

Yeah, Adele made banta. But, I mean, but you look at the Kardashians, right? Because the Kardashians, who are, you know, a big part of their brand, and the culture is taking on black culture and taking it on as their own. Kylie, Khloe. I remember when Khloe was wearing bantu knots and a lot of the kids. And there was this big story about

[B]

a lot of kids wearing bantu knots.

[C]

Yeah, it was bantu knots with some type of black hairstyle. And then. And she said something. Somebody listening to it is knowing exactly what it is. And she said something like, she did not. Like, she alluded that her and her hairstylist came up with this together were she better work. And I. I'm like, fuck it up a little bit. There's a little nuance, a little more nuance in it. But that was, like, the gist of the story. And like, all, like, the little fans, like, oh, my God, I love this new hairstyle Chloe came up with. And then people in the comments like, bitch, no, black people. What are you talking about? You did not come up with your hairstyle. This is a black hairstyle. What the fuck are you talking about?

[B]

So do you. So do you believe in gatekeeping things like bantu knots or. Or hairstyles? Like. Or do you believe in being like. Like, if a. If a white person wants to wear cornrows, what do you stand on? The white people wearing cornrows?

[C]

I say that if you. Are they doing it? And if in an appreciate, in an appreciative way, then yes, if you're appropriating it, to take it on as your own. No. Like, if you're going. If you are going to Miami Carnival and you want to put your hair up in cornrows and jump and jump in a fet, sure, go ahead, by all means, but don't be, like, rocking it. But then it gets a little tricky because then you see the motherfuckers at work in cornrows and. Well, a lot of hair. A lot of policies have changed with hairstyles at work. But if it's appreciative, yes, appropriative, no.

[B]

I think my views on it have changed a lot. And I think society's had a lot to do with that. Because when I was younger. If a white person had cornrows, to be honest, folks were like, work. Like, especially where I'm from. I grew up in a black community. So if one of the white folks had cornrows, everyone would be like, oh, work, you got cornrows, you better work, girl. But it never really was much beyond that, especially if you grew up. If you grew up in a black community and there were like one or two white people there. Those people kind of, especially if they grew up around all the white people, they kind of act black because they're surrounded by black people, even if their parents aren't from there, even if they move there. And then they're the first generation to live amongst black people. They kind of just. They kind of just act like black people. And you kind of would get used to it. And there are, I guess, in my mind, my thoughts on it have. I get uneasy sometimes with it. Like, whenever I first met Thorgy and Thorgy had locks, I, I really didn't think much of it. I still don't think much of it. And I had, like, I had locks when I was younger. But my father has locks or had locks. Well, we're, we're all bald now. But my, my father. My father had locks, my uncle had locks, my nephew. A lot of people, my family, Jacob, saw A lot of people in my family have locked. Locks are like a big hairstyle in my family. My aunt Lisa has locks, my aunt, her daughter. They're like, a lot of people in my family have locs. And whenever I saw white person locks, I guess for some reason, I just, I just never gave it much thought to be. If I'm being fully honest, it never. And I actually am from a time where having locks was literally considered unprofessional at work. I am from a time. I, I, I, I was, it was late 90s. No, I had locks in the early 2000s. Maybe at the turn, Maybe at the turn of the century. Maybe. I can't remember. I, I had locks up until I

[C]

was 21 years old to a turn of the century. Oh, my God. We lived turn of a century.

[B]

Yeah, 24 years ago. Monet, the century turned 24 years ago.

[C]

God. Continue. Sorry, what do you mean?

[B]

Where you been?

[C]

It's just so crazy to say. It's just so crazy to say at the turn of the century when I like, gag. Anyway, you're so funny.

[B]

But I think that I don't know, and I get the concept behind it, because white people. Okay, let me think. White people, they're like, you get to wear locks, then you get to cut your. You are wearing a hairstyle that black people get, like, oppressed for having. That makes sense to me. But I guess I don't know what they're getting away with by having the hair.

[C]

Because some black people have to do these hairstyles when this white person. They can't.

[B]

No one has locs. No one has to do locs. I had locs. No one has to do locs.

[C]

I'm taking a conversation, like, outside of locs, which is like, black hairstyles, they can pick and choose which ones they want to do and look cool and be praised for it. But the same black. But black people don't have the. Like, you kind of have to. You know what I mean?

[B]

I'm probably gonna get roasted for this. Outside of, like, having an afro, what hairstyle do black people have to have? Like, who has to have braids? Who has to have cornrows? Who has to have. I mean, this is for someone who had locs for, like, I had long locs. I never had to have. I just wanted them because I like them.

[C]

I mean, I've never been a cornrow girl, but I. Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought that certain types of cornrows are protective hairstyles to help your hair grow. Cause if you're. Because some people, their hair just does not grow successfully. They cannot cornrow their hair down.

[B]

I agree, it is pretty terrible. But who has to have. Who has it?

[C]

Because you want your hair to grow, you want the luxury of your hair growing, just like Susie and Rebecca.

[B]

But I don't get why you have to have a lot. Like, if you want this, you have to do this. That makes sense. But outside of that, no one has to have cornrows.

[A]

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[B]

No one has to have locs. Except for, like, Afro. Like, yeah, that's where my. That's where my hair grows my hair. If I were to grow here. I have very, very, very kinky hair. Like, I have, like, Brillo pad hair. My hair is very kinky, Very what people call nappy hair. It is black, black, black hair. There's nothing soft or anything about my hair. So I do have to have that hairstyle unless I want to treat it or something. But I never had to have. But I know some people are very, very passionate about this. They're like. They're like, white people cannot have his hairstyle. And I guess I just never felt like it took anything from me. I do think some people look a little silly. Like, if you're white with, like, box braids, you. You look a little silly. I do think you look a little silly sometimes. You know what I mean?

[C]

Going through Amsterdam, the culture shock I felt when I went to Amsterdam for the first time back in 2018, whatever it was, I was just. It was literally just a bunch of white people with dreadlocks and box braids on bicycles. It was such a. It was like this. It's like someone took all the black people and just, like, erased them a lot and make them really light. And it's just a bunch of white people with dreadlocks and box braids. It was so strange.

[B]

Is it strange that there's, like, this, like, competition between, like, Scandinavian people and black people to try to find out who did locks first? Like, no, we did it first, but there's a picture. There's a picture of a Scandinavian on a cave drawing that they go, yeah, but there's a black person on another drawing from this. And I'm like, what. What are we doing? We found a skeleton of a Viking with locks. I'm like, what y' all trying to

[C]

find out who can do it?

[B]

At what point is it. Like, at what point is it, like, what does it matter? But also, am I being ignorant of being like, why are we racing to find out who did locks first?

[C]

I guess it just feels. You know what I think? I think it just feels like to be a black person or a person of color. I feel like you have so much taken from you and so much ripped away from you. Like, I want to say that this is my thing. This is our thing. I want to hold onto this thing. And when someone comes at you, actually, no, you didn't do it first, because in 2 BC Hyeshin, he had dreadlocks. And you're like, no, but in one BC bitch. This is ours. Please. Like, you cannot take this cultural thing from me.

[B]

But does it. But do you. Does it Diminish what you have. If a white person has it, I

[C]

don't think it diminishes. I think it's just wanting to hold onto, like, this is ours. We started this. This is something we want. I don't think it takes away from anyone. I think it does take away. In terms when you're like, now I don't even have that anymore. You know what I mean? I think when it appears that white people have an abundance of things, they have all this stuff, all these things at their fingertips, it's like. And again, it's not just the one hairstyle thing that black people have or people of color can hold onto, but it does feel like this, like, ancient thing that we can say that we. That ours, and we started it. And I think that's what the conversation starts to divulge into.

[B]

And I can see that. I can see that being a valid thing. But then I guess another part of me is like. Because, like, black culture is really not easy to pin down. Like, for example, I'm black. Monet's black. Lupita Nyong' O is black. And because I'm American, Monet's Caribbean, and she's Mexican. And then you have someone else who's like. Who's, you know, from, like, Nigeria. We are all Cameroon. Yeah. Bibi from Cameroon. We all have black culture, but me and Bibi's childhoods and our culture is. There's probably very little overlap because of how different, but it is still black culture. They're com. They're just. They're just really culturally speaking. Me and Bibi Zahara, but they are very, very in any like. And black folks will tell you, like, black Americans will tell you the difference. Like black, like, Nigerians, and like, black Americans. It is. It is. It is night and day. If you were, like, black growing up and you had Nigerian friends, you went to their house, they did not live like you. They didn't talk like you. It is so different. Even though you were both black, there's different versions of black culture. So then the question is, is that also our culture? Like, because I don't know where I'm from in Africa, is that culture still my culture, even though I've not participated in it? And it's not because I chose not to, but it was, like, ripped from me, and I don't even know where I'm from.

[C]

Yeah. You know, this kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier. I think that black Americans need to, like, embrace. And I'm not saying that you completely Give up on your ancient ancestral cultures in Africa. But I feel like there needs to be, like, we need to hold on and embrace what black American culture is, because it is something that is so rich and it means a lot to so many people. And I think there is so much there. And I think there is a way of making and not making it. It already is a rich thing, but being. But trying to expand on that and make that be fierce and not again. I don't want people to give up trying to find their African, continental African culture. I'm not saying that I'm like, build upon and really embrace what black. African American culture is.

[B]

Black American culture is obviously, it's one of the most impactful cultures in the world. But also what's interesting is a big part of black American culture up until recently has been kind of like carving out a space for yourself where. Where you were prohibited from doing something before. So black people can't. Black people aren't allowed to, you know, participate in this. So then we made our own. You know what I mean? And then this one, then this one, the other one, the one that we made ended up being so good, so amazing, so remarkable that. That white folks were like. That is actually very interesting. We would like some of that. So take rock and roll, for example. Like, rock and roll really started with, like, Little Richard, who's like the. Who's like the Godfather of Rock. Or I believe that's. I believe that's his term. The Godfather of Rock. Or the. Or he got. He often calls himself the blueprint.

[C]

Yeah. Which I saw an interview. Did you know that he had. He got saved and he wasn't gaining. I did not know Little Richard was. Had become straight. Did you know that?

[B]

Okay, so. So he was the founding father of rock and roll. So. Okay. Little Richard had a very interesting relationship with queerness.

[C]

I did not know this.

[B]

There were times where he wrote something. He was like, obviously out gay. And then he was like, not gay. And then he was like, I feel like we're little richer. Came from a time where, like, gay. It wasn't really. It was like, you're gay, but you're also. You're not, but you're kind of not being it, but you are it. Like, a lot of people don't know that. Tutti Frutti, Tutti fruity, oh, oh, Judy or oh, it used to be Tutti frutti in the booty.

[C]

He was the name of the person.

[B]

No, the song. It was like, Tootie fruity, oh, Rudy. It was originally tootie Frutti in the booty. It was literally about butt sex. But then he made it big and he was like, oh, I gotta kind of change. I gotta kind of change my, my wording. Because all this song about butt sex won't make it big. So he made it tootie fruity. Oh, Rudy. And then of course you have Rosetta Tharp, who, who sang you ain't nothing but a hound dog, but a hound dog as the godmother. Rock and roll. So rock and roll started as this black thing. Now hear me out. Let's imagine we gate kept rock and roll and never let the white people find out about it. Then it wouldn't be as big as it is today. So that people like Lenny Kravitz can have these massive, massive moments. Or even people back then like Little Richard. Black people back then who got really big because of the popularity of rock and roll growing. But then again, I will say white people like took rock and roll. They just took it and ran with it. It is now to the point where black people tease other black people if they like rock and roll.

[C]

But here's the thing, because again, so now we talking about this. Rock and roll is African American culture. Africa. But is. But African American culture. So at what point does it not like stuff in Africa? The white people that live in Africa, they don't say, oh, we have white African culture. I mean, maybe they do. Like, there's a difference between white African culture and black African culture. It's just African culture. So yes, rock and roll started out, black people did it in America. But at what point does it become now again, there is. With music and stuff. That's a different story. Like white people would just take black songs, redo them and make them big or whatever. That's a different story. But I'm saying, at what point do things in American culture stay as black, stay as white? Like, at what point does it all become one together?

[B]

I don't know that I. I don't know that I believe in like stay away from our thing. Like, I. That sounds weird to me. The idea of being like the, like keep to your own ism to me feels weird and it feels like counterproductive. Like, but then again, if I saw like a, like a. Okay, if I see like a white person rapping, that's not weird to me. But if I see a white person like doing like traditional African dancing, maybe because I'm not African, I'm like, that is kind of weird looking.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's black culture. But it's not my culture. Because I'm not. Because I was raised in America. I wasn't raised in Africa, although I do identify as African because of my heritage is obviously in Africa, but I'm not African. But I am African. It's so weird.

[C]

Yeah, it is really weird. So that's why I'm like, when do we all melt and just become American culture? But again, it's because America has such a. I mean, and not just America, the world does. Slavery, hello, was a global thing, but in America we have stop trying to

[B]

make slavery a thing.

[C]

Just kidding. We have a lot of issues. And I think that is the question crux of why it's such a conundrum in America. Because there's just like, we just have our shit. We have not really settled and deal with what slavery really was in this country. And even today we have people that are like, slavery isn't real, it didn't happen. Why can't black people get over it? So I think that's why there's this big people wanna hold onto. Well, this is ours. You know what? Since you don't think slavery happened, then this is ours. You cannot participate in this cause since you cannot reconcile with what your ancestors did in this fucking country.

[B]

Are there other countries that have so recently had to deal with large migrations, forcible migrations of people from other countries to that country? Like for example, is there like a big, like the fact that America is about 12% black is wild? Because most of us were just brought here against our will. Most of us here are because our ancestors were brought. I mean, obviously you're not, that's not why you're here. But most black Americans like myself are here because a lot of our ancestors were brought here against their will. You know what I mean? And that was only like 160 years ago, maybe less. So is there any other country in the world that's so recently dealing with that? And maybe that's why America is in the situation that we're in and why a lot of black people feel they need to gatekeep the culture so strong. I'm obviously not gonna try to gatekeep in like indigenous American culture. But when I, if I, when I see white people or black people or anyone dressing up like Native Americans, I'm like, oh, that is. Yeah, I feel, I feel uncomfortable. I feel weird and I feel uncomfortable.

[C]

Yeah, I think, yeah, the history of what that means even in, even in B.C. but America doesn't even do like you go to Canada, anytime you do something on an indigenous, like, ground or somewhere that is. That is recognized as an indigenous space. Like, they have protocols to, like, there's, like, a moment of silence. You recognize that while you're there, you recognize that you're in this space. Like, you pay respect. Whereas in America, I have never, ever. And I know for a fact I have done things on indigenous soil. And everywhere in America is indigenous soil.

[B]

All of Manhattan is indigenous soil.

[C]

And so I. And I have. Have you ever done that in America where you. The way that's called land. Acknowledgment, silence, land acknowledgement. Have you ever done that before?

[B]

I. Yeah, I mean, I. But I also lived in San Francisco for a short while, and San Francisco is very much like, about that land. Land acknowledgement, lifestyle, but not. But not as much as they do in Canada.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know.

[C]

Yeah. Canada is really just about it.

[B]

So Monat and I are talking about gatekeeping because there's a big discourse right now, because, first of all, I don't know if Anetra is from ballroom.

[C]

Is she. I don't know. She hasn't said anything. And I feel like at this point, she. Although she seems like one of those girls who doesn't want to, like, get. She, like, she doesn't want to get into fights online, so maybe she just hadn't said it. I haven't seen it, though.

[B]

But anitro was, you know, voguing, or as Leiomy has coined the term, no ging on, which is when you're, like, fake voguing or, like, pretending to vogue or voguing based on what you've seen on TV and film, but not actually learning from ballroom people. No gang online, which is interesting to me, too, because there is, like, you know, even though RuPaul is not from ballroom, but, you know, Michelle Visage is from ballroom, and it's quite. Respect. What? Well, I don't know. I don't know if she is still quite respected in ballroom or not because of her association with RuPaul's Drag Race. But I also don't find that there is really this big divide between Ballroom and RuPaul's Drag Race. Like, the world's trying to make it seem like there is, like, I went on Legendary, and I don't remember people being like. It felt like. It didn't feel like this big line in the sand that I feel like people are making it seem like it is.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, again, because Dragon, Ballroom, they're not the same thing. But there is a lot of drag in ballroom, and I think A lot of queens, you know, I see, I see a lot of drag queens perform throughout my years. And there are aspects of voguing that queens throw into their numbers that they're doing now. Again, even I have myself and I mean, I know that Naomi is very passionate about noging and people. And I'm trying to figure out exactly what her gripe is. I was on her Twitter today and looking at some of the dialogue and the discourse that she was having with some people in the comments and I think that what she's saying, maybe we should. We're both friends with Leiomy, we should invite on the podcast. Let's talk about. Yeah, I think she's saying like when you are voguing and it's not looking good, be like. Cause you didn't take the time to properly learn how to do it or learn from people from ballroom. I think that might be her qualm. But at the same time I'm like, they have people who do interpretive dance, people who do different type of dance. And I don't think all these people go to the source to learn how to do it. I think that people are just dancing. And again, but I do get that ballroom is. Has only been wrecked in the past like five, six years. Ballroom has become really mainstream. Whereas Leiomy, this was a means of survival for her. Laiomi has been voguing in New York City since I used to see her when I was 14 years old at Escuelita, sneaking in. So Eliomi has been at this for years. So it gets to her to see this art form that is her fucking baby. Something that she has been instrumental in making it mainstream. To see people doing it, not doing it great. It really pisses her off.

[B]

Yeah, I guess so. But I'm intrigued too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess that, that, that does seem like what it is. And whenever I see people doing what I do, but not well, it doesn't bother me as much.

[C]

Same.

[B]

You know what I mean? But then I think about people like. Like, it seems like somehow Michelle Visage has fallen out of favor in ballroom, which is interesting to me because she did not falling out of favor, but like, she doesn't seem to get the resistance. She doesn't seem to get like the respect of someone who did ballroom and like was like vogue. They're like old ass videos of like, like Michelle besides like voguing like on the floor, like old way like old, old videos. Like before people were like before most Drag Race contestants were even alive. Michelle, besides out there Fucking like, you

[C]

know, voguing, you know what I mean?

[B]

And walking face and, and, and, and doing all these, you know, big moments. But it's interesting me too, because a part of the lack of gatekeeping for ballroom, like, you know, Doc, like allowing people to document it in places like the show pose and the documentary Paris is Burning has allowed for these big moments like pose for these big moments, like legendary. So this, so that there's. Interesting that there's the lack of gatekeeping has allowed these massive moments and huge opportunities for people like, you know, the House of Juicy Couture and like in these, like these commercials. What was that commercial? Was it the House of, Was it, was it, was it Balance? No. Was it was Mugler with all, with

[C]

all the, the ballroom Juicy's? Yeah.

[B]

Was it just Juicy's? I can't remember. I don't know.

[C]

I, I, because we're friends with Juicy. I saw them post about it a lot. Like, I saw them all like these like fierce Mugler outfits and at this, and it was at his thing in Brooklyn, the, the, the Mugler exhibit in Brooklyn.

[B]

So maybe there is a, A, an area where the gatekeeping becomes like a right amount for people. It's obviously it's a personal taste because I'm sure there's a lot of people in ballroom who don't care and there's probably people in ballroom who care a lot. I don't think that ballroom, I'm not from the ballroom scene, but I'm sure that ballroom is not homogeneous in its thinking, just like other scenes are not homogenous in their thinking. You know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah, I just, I mean, anytime I. Again, Anetra did not mean any harm. Anitra did not go on TV or in her, on her social media and be like, I am ballroom. I'm coming to RuPaul's dragons to show people how to really vogue and how to really do a duck walk and how to do a dip. You know what I mean? Anisha did not say that. Anisha went, she was like, I'm doing this number and I did and I duck walked in it and I duck walked in it and I did some voguing. She's not claiming ballroom and she's not saying that this is her thing that she started as she's bringing to Drag Race. So that's why I'm like, give this girl a break. Like, she is not.

[B]

So there's also lot I want to say. There are people, there's this insinuation that like drag in Ballroom have no overlap, which is not. There is a lot of drag in ballroom and a lot of ballroom in drag. You know what I mean? As if there have not been ballroom girlies on Drag Race already. They're like legendary ballroom girls like Mariah, Paris Balenciaga, who is like, legendary in the face category on ballroom. And so it's not as if there is no crossover between ballroom and drag, because I don't think that. And also, ballroom in and of itself is like multiple art forms. Ballroom is like the overall encompassing thing that involves things like Runway, catwalk, then voguing, and then also, like, style, like full on fashion, you know, all these categories that fall into the category of ballroom.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I just wanna, like. But I will say, I think a big point of.

[B]

But do you think you care less about anetra voguing because you're not from ballroom?

[C]

Maybe. But they have bitches walking in drag all the time at balls, and you don't see me, like, she not really in drag. How dare she call that drag? I'm like, bitch work. Okay,

[B]

well, I mean, I remember, like, there was. And there have been like, a couple of performances on. Actually, I don't know much about it, but there were a couple performances on Legendary where they were, like, doing other. Other forms of dancing as well.

[C]

Within.

[B]

You have to incorporate, like, a little bit of crumping or a little bit of this and that in the middle of that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Then I don't know. I don't have a lot of friends from the crumping community, but I know that there's a whole culture around crumping. I know there's a whole thing. I know there's a whole. Like, there's the clown makeup and there's the. And if you're from the crump community, I don't know, but there's like, the clowning part of it. Have you seen this?

[C]

Yeah, of course. Yeah, it was. It did. It got. It was really big. Like, early 2000s, Tyra Banks even had a photo shoot where the girls were crumping in it on Top Model.

[B]

And were they, like, clowns?

[C]

They had, like, a clown one. They had, like a. With a. Yeah, they're the clown person. Not the girls, necessarily.

[B]

I love. I love that clowns are somehow associated with crumbing. That is so sickening to me. That is so random and so sickening to me. But we should definitely have Leomi Maldonado on the podcast, if she'll accept.

[C]

I would love. I love Naomi. Oh, I love coming Here and read us down. She's like, Listen, listen, YouTube ball black bitch. Don't you ever come for me.

[B]

Do you want to see Ballroom?

[C]

This is Ballroom.

[B]

That is not even how Lambie talks. That's not even how we talk. She doesn't even talk like that.

[C]

I know, I know, I know, I know.

[B]

You're doing. You're doing.

[A]

You.

[B]

You're doing an impersonation of what's the name on Legendary? No, not Law Roach. The one from pose on Legend when she was on Legendary.

[C]

Dominique Jackson. Yeah.

[B]

When she goes, I am Ballroom. I was like, oh, my God, this is wild.

[C]

You know, I'm not, I'm not gonna let you talk about your parent company, but by HBO taking away Legendary off of the thing, we, we. Legendary is gone. We don't have DVDs. We will. Legendary is.

[B]

I heard that it's gone off the platform, but maybe that means they're trying to shop it to somewhere else now. Re upload it there. Maybe. I don't know.

[C]

No, the shake up going down with the whole.

[B]

Oh, really?

[C]

Because Discovery.

[B]

I don't know for sure because I don't work. I don't. I was only one episode of Legendary, but most TV shows are produced by a production company and then it is sold to the platform. So there's probably a production company that owns Legendary. It's kind of like world. Like World of Wonder does Drag Race, and then Drag Race is sold to or licensed to Paramount. So there's probably a company that does Legend. Scout is the company that is Legendary.

[C]

Yeah, Scout. Yeah.

[B]

So Scout, maybe Scout is looking for a new home for Legendary. I would love that.

[C]

I hope so too, because, I mean, the rule, but the word on the street is, and I read some deadline articles and shit about it in Variety that, you know, with the whole mix up over at Discovery, hbo, yada, yada, yada, is that they don't want to because times it's hard. They don't want to pay all these residuals to all of these shows. That's why they've taken off so many movies and so many TV shows off the platform. So. Because if people aren't streaming, then residuals don't have to be paid.

[B]

Well, that's not how reality TV works. Like, have you ever gotten a residual from Paul's Drag? You've been on three seasons. You ever got a residual check from Paul's Drag Race?

[C]

I. I got a music.

[B]

Yeah, for music. That's not Drag Race. That's not from Drag Race. That's from the Sales of the music. There are.

[C]

No, I'm talking about the mute. The. The tv. The. Sorry, the, like the scripted shows and the movies that they're taking off.

[B]

Yeah, I don't have that fx.

[C]

Legendary.

[B]

Yeah, because there's no. Girl, there was residuals for fucking reality TV shows. You'd be fucking rolling it. Rolling in it. Honey.

[C]

Why aren't they a Jujubee?

[B]

Girl, Jujubee would be sitting on a stack of money, honey.

[C]

Bitch should be the Oprah of drag. Honey, just have fun.

[B]

I'm sure that the. The producers of the show, they probably get residual checks and money. Like, I'm sure. I'm sure RuPaul gets money every time they play Drag Race. But us contestants, girl, we got paid our little $500 per episode, bitch, every time.

[C]

Every time you scroll on Netflix and you let that little thing play for 30 seconds.

[B]

RuPaul, RuPaul buys a Tesla every time you let the screen say it made the best drag queen win.

[C]

So damn. Hi, Mama Ru. Give it, Mama Ru. Let me get $20.

[B]

I'll text. I'll text them.

[C]

It's too late.

[B]

Is it too late? 9, 10. It's 11 o' clock at night. It's not too late to text someone, is it? I'll be like, girl, do you want to come on our pod to talk about voguing on directly?

[C]

11 o' clock and it's too late.

[B]

She'll probably be like, no. She'll probably be like, no, I do not. You know what I mean? But there's also tons of people from the ballroom scene who probably want to. I mean, it's not as if we do not like, have the numbers of all the. Well, not every member. Not every member of Juicy Couture, obviously there's. The four who went on tour with us are not every member of ballroom.

[C]

Yeah, but we know. We know a few peoples up in ballroom room.

[B]

Yeah, we should have someone on to like, give their. Their thoughts thought.

[C]

Siana, bust down Thoughtsiana. Hold on.

[B]

I'm texting right now.

[C]

Oh, my God. Come over here and drag us, honey.

[B]

Maybe she'll like. Maybe she'll be like, you know what? Maybe you guys make. I don't know.

[C]

I'm kidding. And Naomi's very sweet. I love Leomi.

[B]

I just text her. She probably like. Hell to the no anyway. But yeah, I think I feel like maybe the gatekeeping conversation. We should. We should have some. Some more voices up in here.

[C]

I think so too. We should have some more voices about you.

[B]

And I have a very Similar take on it. And maybe we need someone who's like, I'm gay. Gatekeeping down.

[C]

Like, who? Do we have any friends that are gay? Who. Who are my friends at Gatekeepy?

[B]

Mateo. Mateo. What about, like, food and stuff? Remember when Nick said he wanted to get into comedy? Oh, yeah. Mateo. Mateo. Mateo is very protective about the way people. Mateo is. Is a hardcore, like straight up New York City, back of the room, like, you know, five bringers a night. Like, like room to room comedian. Mateo is like. Mateo is like the archetype of what a. When you think of a nursing comedian, how they come up. Mateo did all the stuff it takes to be like a hardcore. And I had a very alternative route to stand up comedy. I started in the comedy clubs and then I started doing almost all of my standup at the gay bars in Dragon, and then I went back to comedy clubs after being on tv.

[C]

So you and Mateo will fight?

[B]

Well, we probably have different opinions. I don't know that we would. I don't know that we would fight.

[C]

Darling, who do you think would win in a fistfight between you and Mateo?

[B]

Me.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I'm just considerably larger than Mateo. Matteo's like five, eight, and I'm probably 50 pounds heavier than Mateo.

[C]

Mateo's strong.

[B]

I'm stronger than Mateo.

[C]

But what if y', all, like, box? Like,

[B]

if anyone ever said, do you want to. What about you and Mateo? If anyone ever said, do you want to have a fight? I would never choose boxing. I'd be like, it's got to be UFC style, like. Like UFC style fighting. I want to be able to slam you, punch you, kick you, all of it. Because that's where I would drive me.

[C]

And me and Mateo. I would destroy Mateo. Bitch.

[B]

Yeah. I don't think Mateo even knows how to throw a punch.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Now if we had a pasta cook off, Matea would pummel me. Or a sing off or a draw off, Matea would win. You know what I mean?

[C]

Matea's such a good artist. Matea's so talented. What a little multi hyphenate he is.

[B]

If there's one drag race girl, you'd be like, this queen could actually give me a run for my money in fighting.

[C]

Who would it be in fighting?

[B]

Like, fist fighting.

[C]

I'm trying to think fist fighting. Give me a run for my money. I'm hard pressed.

[B]

You think you could whoop every drag race to whoop? You mean you. You think you would just clean the floor? No, no. No one even stands a chance with you of every drag race girl, you are the fucking heavyweight champion. You. You.

[C]

Yeah, I'm a very good fighter.

[B]

And no, no one's even gonna fucking give you a run for your money. No one.

[C]

No, I said what I said, man.

[B]

You're hilarious. You're hilarious.

[C]

Who do you think could take me?

[B]

First of all, me. Let's start with me, Bob. I want Molly, Monique. What physical advantage do you have over me, bitch?

[C]

Agility?

[B]

What am I, stumbling Susie? No one said what do I have vertigo?

[C]

You asked what I said, but I'm

[B]

like, what about me is not agile? Am I clumsy? Am I slow?

[C]

You're not slow, but I'm faster on my feet than you.

[B]

Okay, what are we racing? What are you. What are you ready? What are you trying to chase me now while I'm running from you?

[C]

That's your number one. You already think that. You don't have to be. You have to. Oh my God, am I serious?

[B]

First of all, also, what makes you. What have you ever proven that you're faster on your feet than me? What have you ever done?

[C]

We literally had to race. My view.

[B]

You did not. You mean you dropped your phone and I got ahead of you and you go, if I didn't drop my phone. The only time we've ever raced is that time you dropped your phone and you didn't and you called off the race. Cuz you dropped your phone.

[C]

Another race. Let's another race then.

[B]

Yeah, let's race. Honey.

[C]

Bob does this thing where Bob would just say. He says honey at the end of something. Candy.

[B]

I won't.

[C]

I will.

[B]

Molly Wop Candy.

[C]

Kenny was from the Bronx. She can't do nothing. Okay, here's.

[B]

Okay, we need to do you and I. I was thinking about this earlier because I was talking. I was. The podcast and myself, we love. I really, I really want to do a one night only drag queen wrestling night. Me versus you. Mick versus Violet. Trixie versus Katya.

[C]

Katya is destroying Trixie. Trixie, first of all, Trixie's bow legged. First of all, let's start there. Okay.

[B]

No, she's pigeon toed.

[C]

Pigeon toed? Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's not the same thing.

[C]

Yeah, Trixie's pigeon toed as hell. Katya, like Katya does headstands. And Katya is really fit and in shape.

[B]

Well, also, I don't want to do it WWF style, where we choreograph it and plan it out and make it entertaining. I don't want to because actual wrestling won't be as entertaining as us doing A thing where we jump off the ropes and we slam each other. I would love to do that.

[C]

We have to get girl bitch. We have to be like the Vivian in training for six weeks.

[B]

But we charge a lot of money, so it'd all be worth it. I think people would show up to see us wrestle.

[C]

I think, I think we could do it at Madison Square Garden.

[B]

Honestly, I don't think you're wrong. I think people would show up and show out if we had a full on wrestling match, but we had to do like shit talking videos beforehand.

[C]

Yeah, like we need to do like the weigh in things and we have to like boxing monat.

[B]

Oh my God. You never watch professional wrestling.

[C]

First of all, UFC fighters do that too.

[B]

That. That's not wrestling. That's not wrestling.

[C]

This is our own show, Bob. We can make whatever he wants for the press for the promo of it.

[B]

I don't want to do that. I want to do professional wrestling. This is my idea. You're not going to appropriate my idea. I'm gatekeeping. I'm gatekeeping.

[C]

Oh my goodness. Okay. I don't think leiomy's coming on. She said it's a chop.

[B]

No, yomi text me said she'd love to. Oh, she said lol. Yes. I wouldn't mind like right.

[C]

Did you tell her right now?

[B]

Yeah, just text her. She texted me back already five minutes ago.

[C]

She said that say. But did you tell her like right now or she mean. Because she probably wants to get like a face on and everything.

[B]

I didn't say right now.

[C]

Okay. All right, work. So we can. Maybe we can like a. No, we should. We shouldn't do Patreon exclusives. We should do. We should do it like gatekeep it.

[B]

Put it behind a paywall. Gatekeep it. Monet. Gatekeep the content. All right, Monet. So we'll, we. Next thing you know, we'll soon we'll have an episode with Leomi Maldonado. Hopefully, if our schedule is permitted, where we will be able to talk about all of this. Honey.

[C]

Yes. Sounds good.

[B]

I love you.

[C]

I love you too. I really do, y'.

[B]

All. Wait, what was that? Why do you always do something gotta do something weird? Like as we're signing off, like it can never just be goodbye. It's gotta be like drinking from a. A cap of water or brushing your teeth with a hairbrush or.

[C]

I'm not brushing my teeth. I just literally just did this.

[B]

Why is it. Why is there gonna be something weird with you? Why can't it ever just be goodbye and, like, be, like, a regular thing.

[C]

Do you know what?

[B]

Do I know what? What? Huh? What, Monet? Do I know what? What?

[C]

I love you so much.

[B]

Take deep breaths. Take deep breaths, bitch. Take them real deep. Really breathe in. Really breathe in, honey.

[C]

Mm, yeah.

[B]

Mm, yeah.

[C]

Jacob. Jacob, log off this damn.

[B]

Jacob, don't log off. Let Monet feel this heat. Honey. Yeah, honey. It's a heat wave coming through. It's like a heat wave running through my heart.

[C]

I love that song.

[B]

Mona, you love me so much. You love when I give you fever. You love it. You love it.

[C]

Boy, please. All right. Bye, y'.

[B]

All. Sam.