The One About Joking

Summary

Sibling Rivalry – The One About Joking

Date: October 23, 2024
Hosts: Monét X Change & Bob the Drag Queen

Episode Overview

This episode of Sibling Rivalry dives into the complex nature of joking—especially around serious topics, art, and personal experiences. Bob the Drag Queen and Monét X Change use their trademark humor and chemistry to discuss how the culture of irony, camp, and online humor impacts how we interpret art, tragedy, and each other. They also touch on current pop culture (including Billie Eilish, Drag Race, and social media trends), personal stories of falling (or not), the boundaries of comedy, and the controversy around Drag Race South Africa.
Tone: Engaging, irreverent, thoughtful, repeatedly circling back to “what makes a joke go too far?”

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Billie Eilish and Musical Intentionality

• (01:12–02:04) Monét describes her newfound appreciation for Billie Eilish after a YouTube "spiral":

  “I think I have underrated Billie Eilish as being a very, very, very fucking dope ass musician… I think I have underrated her.” (Monét, 01:16)

• Bob admits he’s not Billie’s target audience but gives credit:

  “William Eilish is a very talented musician.” (Bob, 02:42)

2. Drag Race Performances and Falling

• (03:24–06:16) The queens discuss infamous drag performers falling on stage, personal clumsiness, and aging:

  “I just don’t fall very often, to be honest. I just. I don’t... I have pretty good balance.” (Bob, 03:52)
  “As a kid, I used to be very clumsy. I was very forgetful and very clumsy as a kid. And those two things have since dissipated in my life.” (Monét, 04:55)

• Aging and losing physical abilities is discussed with humor and realism.

3. Personal Promotions & The Visual Podcast Debate

• (11:12–12:53) Monét plugs her new “Monét Talks” YouTube chat show, prompting a discussion on what makes a podcast vs. a chat show.

  “So basically it’s just whatever you want to call it is what it is.” (Bob, 12:32)

4. Bob’s Book Announcement

• (13:07–14:15) Bob announces his upcoming historical fiction novel, Harriet Tubman Live in Concert:

  “It is a historical fiction piece about Harriet Tubman coming back to life and writing a hip hop album so she can continue her work as an abolitionist.” (Bob, 13:19)

5. The Irony Epidemic: Joking About Tragedy & Sincerity Online

• (16:15–23:57)
  • Bob and Monét react to Ethel Cain’s viral rant about how “nobody takes anything seriously anymore.”
  • Ethel’s quote (read by Bob, 17:35):

    “But, like, nobody takes anything fucking seriously anymore. It makes me feel so crazy and annoyed because I am constantly bombarded by jokes… we are in an irony epidemic...” (Bob quoting Ethel Cain, 17:35)

  • Monét reflects:

    “I think we are in a world of everyone. Like, we're in a time of unseriousness... like, I think people are just… joking about you all the time.” (Monét, 16:31)

  • The hosts debate:
    • Are artists being too precious about interpretation?
    • Is online culture (memes, camp, drag humor) diluting seriousness?

6. The Boundaries of Art and Tragedy

• (25:12–43:43)
  Key Questions Raised:

  • When is it “too soon” to joke (or make art) about tragedy?

  • Is there a real difference between a joke, a painting, or a dance about tragedy?

  • Bob:

    “I think that joke telling and humor is an art form like everything else… The point is not that you're laughing at this thing, you're just using this thing. You're using humor as a vehicle or joke telling as a vehicle…” (Bob, 25:18)

  • Monét, on personal limits:

    “If I died tomorrow… I would not buy jokes about my death.” (Monét, 25:52)

  • They debate “taste” and if time must pass before a topic’s fair game (Titantic, 9/11, George Floyd). Illustration: the timeline and reception of Dave Chappelle’s 8:46 special.

  • Bob on the complexity:

    “Sometimes laughing is involuntary… like with the kids watching Schindler’s List—it was a discomfort response.” (Bob, 32:51)

    • Monét emphasizes nuance and context matter:

      “It's all situational, all nuanced.” (Monét, 32:16)

  • Childish Gambino’s “This Is America” (39:03–44:10):

    • Discussion whether showing violence soon after tragedy is appropriate, and that fan reactions vary over time.
    • Monet says, “I think time matters… if we’re talking about, like, the same year, I think to me, I would watch it like, ugh. That literally just happened. This feels inappropriate.” (Monét, 40:09)

7. Drag Race South Africa & Representation

• (46:16–51:42)
  • Monét gets tricked by a Drag Race parody account, leading to a larger discussion about representation and who “should” host Drag Race South Africa.
  • Noteworthy:

    "It would be very strange... if Bebe Zahara Benet... was not the host of Drag Race South Africa." (Bob, 49:19)

  • They address fan discourse that criticizes the automatic suggestion that Black queens should host the African franchise:

    “It’s really inappropriate that you guys would just suggest that these Black queens should be on Drag Race South Africa.” (Monét, 48:52)

    • Bob responds with a mix of satire and pride: "No, it's because we're African, bitch." (Bob, 49:19)

8. Montreal, Bathhouses & Personal Life

• (51:39–53:29)
  • The queens drop in characteristic sexy asides and personal anecdotes about travel, with playful ribbing about Montreal’s... “amenities.”

9. Sibling Banter & Closing Remarks

• (54:01–56:14)
  • The episode closes with their signature shade about lateness and speech impediments, nods to the joy in their rivalry:

    "Victory is so rare that even I get excited when you get one." (Bob, 55:41)

    • Monét: “Okay, I really have to go.” (Monét, 55:54)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I think we're in a time of unseriousness.” (Monét, 16:31)
• “It is a historical fiction piece about Harriet Tubman coming back to life and writing a hip hop album…” (Bob, 13:19)
• “We are in an irony epidemic… There is such a loss of sincerity and everything has to be a joke at all times.” (Bob quoting Ethel Cain, 17:35)
• “If you can make a movie about it, if you can write a poem about it, you can tell a joke about it.” (Bob, 25:18)
• “If I died… I would not buy jokes about my death.” (Monét, 25:52)
• “It's all situational, all nuanced.” (Monét, 32:16)
• “No, it’s because we’re African, bitch. That's why.” (Bob, 49:19)
• “Victory is so rare that even I get excited when you get one.” (Bob, 55:41)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Billie Eilish & Target Demos: 01:07–02:42
• Drag Artists Falling & Clumsiness: 03:24–06:16
• Monét Talks: Podcast or Chat Show?: 11:12–12:53
• Bob’s Book Announcement: 13:07–14:15
• Irony Epidemic and Seriousness Online: 16:15–23:57
• Art and Tragedy — Boundaries of Taste: 25:12–43:43
• Drag Race South Africa, Representation Discourse: 46:16–51:42
• Sibling Banter, Speech Impediments: 54:01–56:14

---

Summary Takeaways

• Joking with Purpose: The episode interrogates the fine line between humor, tragedy, and artistic expression—sometimes laughter is a coping mechanism, sometimes it’s irreverence, but it’s always contextual.
• “Camp” and Internet Culture: The hosts discuss how the internet and drag culture create a landscape where everything is swiftly meme'd or made camp, creating frustrations for artists seeking sincerity.
• Personal Chemistry: Bob and Monét’s banter alternates seamlessly between comedy and thoughtful reflection, making their discussion engaging and nuanced.
• Representation Still Matters: The Drag Race South Africa debate illustrates ongoing challenges with expectations and representation in queer media.
• Favorite Shade: The sibling rivalry endures, filled with jabs, pride, and open vulnerability.

---

Perfect for listeners who love pop culture unpacked with wit, reflection, and unfiltered banter.

Transcript

[A]

Close your eyes.

[B]

Exhale.

[A]

Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[B]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[C]

And breathe. Oh, sorry.

[B]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste.

[A]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.

[C]

My name is Bob the Drag Queen.

[A]

And I'm Monet X Change. And this is simply rivalry. On this week's episode, we investigate if Bob has ever tripped and fallen.

[C]

We talk about current events.

[A]

And we find out what made Bob say this.

[C]

Queer, but in a. In a more of a gay man kind of way. And we found out what made Monet say this.

[A]

It was not two days. It was one day. And it was eight hours.

[C]

I used to float, but I'm not

[A]

sure what I was made for. Have you seen her and her and her brother talking about this? I have to say I used to. I think I have underrated Billie Eilish as being a very, very, very fucking dope ass musician. Like, this is for me speaking. I think I underrated her. I've been watching. I've been in a YouTube spiral. Not spiral, YouTube. Whole sorry. Of watching a lot of her talking about her musicality and like how she creates her music and just the intentionality of like doing certain things and affectations in just what. It's what I was made for. It's so brilliant. I'm like a new found, like, fan. Fan of Billie Eilish.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I don't think I'm Billie Eilish's target audience, but I do like some of her music, though.

[A]

Who do you think. Who do you think is your. Who do you think makes music for your target demo?

[C]

Doja cat. I think Ke$ha. I think Cardi.

[A]

Now, what is your. What is your. What is your demo? You think

[C]

pop, like badass girls, Party girls, fun queer, but in a more of a gay man kind of way, you know?

[A]

With your gay ass.

[C]

With my gay ass. With your gay ass. But I can listen to Billie Eilish's music and acknowledge that it is very well done. And she's an incredibly so good sir. William Eilish is a very talented musician. William Eilish and I did that viral

[A]

TikTok song, Dun dun dun dun dun. Billie Eilish. Remember that?

[C]

I'm Stylish, glock tuck, big T shirt, Billie Eilish. Yeah. And that guy did a performance, and Billie Eilish actually came out on stage. Oh, my God. Billie Eilish did a performance and he came out. She was like, you guys know that song that's like, bitch, I'm stylish, glock tuck, big T shirt, Billy Eilish. And everyone was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then she was like, well. And then the song playing, he came

[A]

out, and then she gagged and Darren Lake came out.

[C]

Why would Darren Lake come? I don't get it.

[A]

Darian Lake did her on. On Drag Race. Oh.

[C]

Oh, it's been a hot minute.

[A]

Is there a clip of Darian Lake performing somewhere and falling off the railing?

[C]

Have I seen it? Yes, I have. Yes, I have seen it, as a matter of fact. Have you ever had. She bounced back, she got up and

[A]

kept going, girl, like nothing ever happened. Have you ever had. Someone used to make those compilations of Drew girls falling? And Trixie was like. Of 3/4 of it, you know, I don't. I.

[C]

Well, even when I was doing a lot of lip sync numbers, and I guess I did do some dance numbers a lot on the. On the Madonna tour. And I did a lot of dance numbers with us on Sibling Rivalry. I just don't fall very often, to be honest. I just. I don't. I don't find myself hitting the ground terribly often. Not that I've never fallen, but I don't.

[A]

Like.

[C]

I'm not someone who's like, falls a lot. I'm pretty. I have pretty good balance, you know, I have a pretty good center of gravity. Not center of gravity, but I have a great. I just don't fall very often. There's not a lot of footage. There's none. But there's just not a lot of times where it's like I fell. You know what I mean?

[A]

Except for that time in front of Taylor Swift.

[C]

Again, I didn't hit the ground. I didn't. I tripped. I didn't fall. Like, hitting the ground is pretty rare for me. I did not hit the ground.

[D]

You didn't hit the ground because you fell into the bus?

[C]

Well, no, I leaned and I grabbed the bus. Well, what happened was I actually stepped on my skirt. The skirt slipped, and my leg, like, slid, and then the hot cocoa slid down my arm Again, I'm not saying I have never fallen, but I'm just saying it's pretty rare to see me, like, face plant or hit the ground.

[A]

Yeah, I would say the same thing. I Don't there, there isn't much footage of me falling or slipping during a number or whatever as a kid. I used to be very clumsy. I was a very clumsy child. I was very forgetful and very clumsy as a kid. And those two things have since dissipated in my life.

[C]

The forgetfulness has dissipated.

[A]

Well, not a forgetfulness, the falling.

[C]

You forgot that you're forgetful. That's crazy. It's crazy. You forgot that you are a forgetful person. But yeah, I mean, fingers crossed, maybe I'm entering my trip and fall era.

[A]

Imagine you just become just a clumsy ass old person, which is gonna happen. I mean, you lose all your faculties the older you get, obviously.

[C]

To be fair, a lot of old people who fall aren't falling because they're clumsy. They're falling because they like they don't have the strength to stand or something. Yeah, look at this clumsy bitch. It's like you try to stand, then you don't realize that your body doesn't have the actual strength to make you stand up from the ground.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know what I mean?

[A]

But the thing is that like you realize like from the time you're born, not such a. Because you. Because when you get older, to a certain point, you're building muscle and blah, blah, blah, you're building, but I don't know what age it happens, but you are basically just starting out the wearing down process. Like things are just start to go the opposite way. You're not building anymore. Things are just, they're going away from

[C]

the time you're born.

[A]

No, that's what I said, I fixed it. I said no. From the time you grow, you're getting muscle, you're getting older, blah, blah, blah. But I don't know what age it is. Is it like 45, 50? Your body goes the other way because you also start to shrink. My grandfather, like, they shrunk, they got just smaller, they got shorter and smaller.

[C]

Well, I think it depends on what you're doing with your body. Are you drinking? Now there are certain parts of your body that actually do deteriorate from the time you're born and they do not get better. Your liver never gets better, your eyesight never gets better.

[A]

Apparently brain cells too, allegedly. I know this is true. I don't know if I learned this in science class, but you're born.

[C]

That was debunked.

[A]

Was it?

[C]

Yeah. We all got taught as a kid that you were born with all the brain cells you'll ever have.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then somewhere around like 2010, they were like that's not true. You actually do create brain cells.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. Jacob, look that up. I mean, I'm pretty sure I remember. I remember also being like, oh, yeah, you have all the brain cells you'll have. Yeah, but that's actually. I don't know.

[A]

That's why when the movie Baby Geniuses came out, we were like, oh, my God, these motherfuckers are secretly smart. These bitches that are out in cradles, they act like, oh, go, go, go, go. Then we turn around, they, like, have, like, their. They press a button. They go into their secret bunker.

[C]

They're planning. I don't think anyone else thought Baby Geniuses was a documentary. Can I say real quick about apples? I was eating an apple this morning. Yesterday.

[A]

It was World Apple Day, by the way.

[C]

Oh, congratulations.

[A]

I celebrated. I had three green apples. But I did want to tweet about it. I was like, I didn't want the extraness. I just wanted. I wanted to enjoy my apples in my own piece.

[C]

I don't think green apples are my favorite. I really prefer a Fuji or a Pink Lady. But I just don't understand why eating an apple always has to be an assault on your bottom teeth. Gums, like, your teeth are, like, biting into the apple and your bottom gums are scraping, like, along the rippage of the skin. Wait, what? My bottom gums hurt when I eat apples sometimes. Huh. I don't have that experience because I'm, like, ripping through the apple, but with my bottom teeth, not with the top teeth. The top teeth are, like, anchoring it, and the bottom teeth are, like, scooping it out.

[A]

I don't think I don't have that same experience, but I am, because obviously

[C]

your top teeth don't really move much when you talk or when you do anything. It's really your jaw. Your bottom teeth are what's moving. Only Muppets. Top teeth move. Only Muppets are like, hi, how are you? Everything else, like, you know the rest. This all stays pretty much stationary. And your bottom teeth are the ones doing all the moving.

[A]

That tickled me.

[C]

That's what Muppets do. Muppets talk with their whole head.

[A]

I want to shout out.

[C]

Although I guess it would make more to talk like this as a Muppet. But we all still do this, and it's funnier. It looks cuter.

[A]

Yeah. I want to shout out the just jacket I'm wearing. I got this jacket from a fan in Tampa, I think, in 2020. Yeah, no, like, 2019, actually.

[C]

You mean a stylist in Tampa? A Designer in Tampa. That's what you meant to say. Give them respect.

[A]

Anyways, I want to show you life

[C]

as being a fan of you.

[A]

The back of the jacket, they did such a beautiful illustration. Can you see it?

[C]

Oh, yeah. It looks really cute.

[A]

It's gorgeous. So shout out. So shout out. PA Ink Killer Cam Daddy, I believe

[C]

is there the artist, not the fan. The artist.

[A]

Can you give them a very name they created? Bob will take cci. Bob is taking this moment with this person, this amazing person to be extra.

[C]

You mean this amazing fan? This fan, anyway, whose life is being your fan.

[A]

And they modeled it after this picture of me that I did for an AWAY suitcase campaign. This is one of my favorite.

[C]

One of my favorite photo pictures on the screen.

[A]

There is. It's one of my favorite photo shoots I have ever done. And it was just. This is just literally me and David Serrano just on the streets of New York for this campaign for Away. Because for some reason, the brand was like, you know what? You just handle the shoot. I was like, I don't get a psych wall, a studio, some PAs, some water and some chips. They said, go do your little photo shoot.

[C]

Here's a little extra change. Literally, though, sometimes when you work with brands, they will just give you more money and be like, figure it out.

[A]

Literally. And that's what it was. They paid very well, bitch. I'm like, oh, wait, can I do some more campaigns? Bitch, I love Away.

[C]

Define very well.

[A]

No, I'm not saying my numbers out loud.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Oh, so you don't believe in transparency?

[A]

Not with you. I will tell the patrons, but not you.

[C]

Wow, you don't believe in transparent. That's crazy. Monet's hiding what she makes from y'.

[A]

All. Do you know what? I wanna do an episode of Bitch. By the way, a lot of people I don't know. Don't you? Don't you ever. This drives me crazy. Like, you have, like, you. You feel like you are doing a lot of promotion. You are posting, you are doing all the things. Some of them are like, you have a show here.

[C]

Oh, always.

[A]

You have a new. You have a talk show. A new talk show. I'm like, I have literally been posting everywhere. How do y' all know? So to the people that don't know, I have a separate podcast or, sorry, a you chat show called Monet Talks that comes out every Thursday and we put a week early releases on our Patreon. So if you want to listen to Monat Talks and watch the videos, go to my YouTube channel. To watch Monat talks. And you can also just listen to the audio wherever you get your podcast. Monat Talks.

[C]

What's the difference between a podcast and a YouTube chat show?

[A]

A YouTube chat show is there. Oh, wait a minute. Let me send this to Jacob.

[C]

So it is a podcast?

[A]

No, it's a YouTube chat show that we also release as an audio podcast.

[C]

So what's the difference between a YouTube chat show and a podcast?

[A]

A YouTube. Cause the show exists on YouTube as a chat show.

[C]

Like this one.

[A]

No, this is a podcast. But I'm asking you. I think it's a chicken egg situation. When we started this, we started as a podcast. And then three years into it, when we got our shit together, we were like, we should start putting visuals out. So then we put the video version of our podcast on YouTube.

[C]

Mine started with visuals. Actually, our first episode is a visual.

[A]

Oh, it did. But we said, we're doing a podcast, and we were like, oh, well, I guess we'll put videos out too. That was our process for me.

[C]

We started with videos, though. We started with videos, but we called it a podcast. So basically it's just whatever you want to call it is what it is.

[A]

I think so. And then for me, I was like, I'm going to start. I want to start a YouTube chat show. And I was like, you know what? I'll also put the audio version off it so people can listen to it as a podcast.

[C]

So if you want to listen. No, it's not a podcast. If you want to listen to the YouTube chat show.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Then you can listen to it [e-mail] where do you find it?

[A]

You can find it on my YouTube channel. My Monet Xchange YouTube channel.

[C]

Got it. Well, also to those of you who may be wondering what the hell we're up to, I have a book. I have written a book. It is available for pre order. Harriet Tubman Live in Concert, a novel by Bob the Drag Queen. It is a book about Harriet Tubman, by the way. This is not a memoir. It's not about my life. I didn't write about my people were like. Do you talk about the time you sent Thorgy a drink? No, I don't. Are you gonn discuss your time on Drag Race? No, I am not in this book.

[B]

Okay?

[C]

It is a fiction. It is a historical fiction piece about Harriet Tubman coming back to life and writing a hip hop album so she can continue her work as an abolitionist.

[A]

Work. When is. So the pre sale is now. When is it like out out in the real world.

[C]

It'll be out in March, but if you want to go get your pre order, you can go to ReadTheDragQueen.com ReadTheDragQueen.com you can get an audio book. You can buy it for pickup or. Or you can have it delivered to your home based on where you would like to. You can get it through Amazon or. Or, let me see, what. What are all the options? There's a read the drag queen doc.

[A]

I'll read you.

[C]

You can get it through Barnes and Noble. You can get it through books A million. You can get it through Amazon.com you can get it through bookshop.org. there are several places you can get it from. Yeah, that's my question. Do you think RuPaul will put my book in her book club?

[A]

She might just send her a text. Anytime I send a text for a thing, she does it. Just text her.

[C]

And what was the last thing you text RuPaul that she did?

[A]

Me doing my text messages.

[C]

How long is this bit gonna go on before we.

[A]

Hey, Ru. Oh. I said, hey, Ru. This is, I think around the season 14. I was like, hey, do you think we can let Sasha Colby win the crown? He said, sure, I got you.

[C]

Oh, so you think that Sasha cope on the ground because you told her

[A]

to win it 100%.

[C]

You don't think it was on her merit or anything?

[A]

Yeah, probably. I think that has something to do with it, but I think my text message was the one that sealed the deal for her.

[D]

So what happened with All Star seven?

[A]

I wasn't interested.

[C]

You didn't even want it. You said you actually sent her text on stage while performing. You said, can we let Jinx win this?

[A]

Literally the night before, I was like, hey, girl, just give it to Jinx.

[C]

Y' all know when Monet would mysteriously walk upstage and turn her back to the audience? She was actually texting Ru, saying, I actually don't really want to win this.

[A]

For every single lip sync, that's what I did.

[C]

Gang, gang. Did you ever confront Nicole Byer the way you confronted me about your not knowing the words?

[A]

When I get on Monet talks, I will.

[C]

You've seen her. In fact, let's talk more about her after this break. I mean, you've seen her since then.

[A]

I don't think I have. I. I don't think I've seen Nicole Myers.

[C]

Were you not invited to her birthday party?

[A]

I was, but I wasn't in town.

[C]

Dang.

[A]

I wasn't. Cause you and Jacob were there. I wasn't in town.

[C]

Where were you?

[A]

This man shock you, Bob, I work. I'm not just sitting at home doing nothing like you.

[C]

Yeah, I'm at home right now in my apartment.

[A]

I know y' all got that renovation.

[C]

Me and Jacob are in different rooms in the same apartment.

[A]

I mean, y' all literally had different bedrooms. So that's not crazy.

[C]

I didn't say it was crazy. I said it was true. I said me and Jacob are in different rooms in our apartment. That is literally we're on the same page, you and me. The same page. Miss Mama, Miss Mary, Ma'. Am.

[A]

I was just gonna tell you something. You made me forget what I was gonna tell you.

[C]

Thank God you're not forgetful anymore. I have a question. What? Well, do you think that fans are, like, music fans don't take things seriously enough anymore?

[A]

Um, I think we are in a world of everyone. Like, we're in a time of, like, unseriousness and, like, I know you fucking lying. Like, I think that people are just. Maybe there's a.

[C]

What if I know you fucking lying. What is that? You mean the song?

[A]

No, that's when people say something like, they'll be like. They'll post something like, Bob doing a million jumping jacks. Bitch, I know you fucking lying, Bob. Not really do that shit. In a time of social media where everything is seems so wild, I think people are always kind of questioning reality. And I think because things are so serious, people are just joking about you all the time. Like, we're in this, like, crazy political cycle. Like, shit. Like, literally, like, shit is our. The world feel like it is collapsing. I think everyone is just taking a lot of jest and joking at things all the time. But also, I'm also a comedian, so maybe I'm just fucking. I'm just too unserious. I don't fucking know.

[C]

So Ethel Kane said, oh, this Ethel Cain.

[A]

Patti loves Ethel Kane. You know, somebody is alt. Patti loves some Ethel Kane stuff.

[C]

So Ethel Kane speaks out on the ongoing irony epidemic and how it frustrates her as an artist. She said, okay, this is probably such a stupid rant, but I've been thinking about it for a few weeks now. But, like, nobody takes anything fucking seriously anymore. It makes me feel so crazy and annoyed because I am constantly bombarded by jokes. Constantly. Sorry, this is kind of funny. Which is kind of the point she's making. It's not even just me. I see it with literally every artist across multiple genres and mediums. And listen, I love to laugh and I love funny shit. But, like, we are in an irony epidemic. Okay. This is kind of camp.

[A]

An irony epidemic.

[C]

This is kind of camp. There is such a loss of sincerity and everything has to be a joke at all times. This feels like Roxy Andrews yelling at Jinx monsoon in season five of RuPaul's track race.

[A]

I don't remember.

[C]

She was like, everything. You think everything's not a joke anyway. Everything has to be joke all the time. The number of times I've tried, I have to read the same stupid shit. Like, yes, you ate that. Like Isaiah ate Ethel over and over. It makes me so mad. It's not everyone, absolutely, obviously, but it's such a huge portion of the people who engage with me online and in real life that it truly encapsulates. No, it's truly inescapable. Sorry. It's truly inescapable. I feel like no matter what I make or what I do, it will always be turned into a fucking joke. Is genuinely so embarrassing for her. Embarrassing for people. I can't tell. I hate feeling like I'm constantly complaining, but I'm. But I'm honest to God, so turned off by so much of the way people engage with the shit I do with most of the things in general is so beyond frustrating. I'm so stressed out. I'm already anticipating the stupid shit I'm going to have to see about perverts.

[A]

Lol.

[C]

Not lol. In the middle of this thing about jokes, it literally makes me never want to share anything again. I miss when I had, like, 20 fans who actually had something interesting to say in response to what I was making. I hate it here.

[A]

I wanna say, I think there is some validity in when you're, like, an artist and you're trying to make something that you want people to take seriously and you get flooded with comments like. Cause I think Jacob was telling us. The reference is she did a song about someone getting an album. An album about someone getting about. What was it? Someone getting beaten up?

[D]

A woman getting murdered by a man who then, like, cannibalizes her. Like, that's over. Like the narrative arc part of the album. Like the narrative arc of the album.

[C]

And it's fictional.

[D]

Yes, it is fictional.

[A]

But also when you make art, it's for people to interpret and receive how they want. You can't be mad if someone is like, is. Is. Is writing a comment.

[C]

You can be.

[A]

I mean, so you can be. But, like, that's. That's what art is. Art is up to interpretation. So you can write this series make this serious album about this thing. But some fan is going to interpret it how they want to interpret it, and they're going to. And that just is what it is. Like, everyone's not going to have your own view or feelings and sentiments about it.

[C]

I don't think the problem is the interpretation. I think everyone's interpreting it the same. A woman was. Cannot. Was. Was murdered and cannibalized. I think it's just how they're taking it.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[C]

Like, I don't think anyone's misinterpreting.

[A]

Maybe somebody's not interpreting that as real. Like that. That. That she's being so sincere. You're like, I'm sorry. Someone is not interpreting her sincerity in it. Which is why they're like, oh, this has to be some campy, sunny situation I can laugh at.

[C]

Well, I don't think that's what it is. Like, for example, you and I are often making a joke about. Since you gotta know everything and you got your fucking degree. There's no misinterpretation. There's no insinuation that you or I think that that moment is supposed to be funny. There's no.

[A]

I've never joked about that.

[C]

Okay, sure, we'll just go ahead and go with that. You and I have never misinterpreted the notion that that moment was. We never thought it was supposed to be camp. You know what I mean? When Whoopi Goldberg said, you told Harpo to beat me, I mean, when Oprah Winfrey said, you told Harpo to beat me, none of us ever thought that was supposed to be a funny moment in the film. It's just become camp through black culture and black people connecting to this film and having a connected experience. So I don't think. I don't know that the problem is necessarily misinterpretation, but it's just how people deal with receiving a lot of. With receiving information that is traumatic or intense or even maybe scary. It's kind of like how, you know, there was years ago, there was this. There's a whole this American Life episode about this. This black school went to go see Schindler's List, and the kids were kind of uncomfortable what they saw, and they laughed at a certain point. There's like a certain point where someone's body falls in a way, and the kids laughed. And there were some patrons who were offended. I think they may have been Jewish. And then they labeled the entire school as antisemitic. So then it became this huge thing where they were like, this school is anti Semitic. These kids hate Jewish people. And they were like, no, no, no. We were just kids watching something really uncomfortable on. And we were just in a movie theater. And that was our response to watching something very uncomfortable. It got to the point where Arnold Schwarzenegger had to come to the school when he was the governor and got it. And Steven Spielberg came to the school to do a talk in the auditorium or the classroom. I don't know where it was in the auditorium. The news became that big. I don't think the kids weren't taking it seriously. It was just kind of their response to what they knew was a serious situation, you know.

[A]

But so wait, so with Ethel Cain, I mean, Jacob may or may not know. So this album, is this something recently? Well, yeah, she posted. Oh, yeah, she posted it October 20th.

[D]

So the album's actually maybe like a year or two old.

[A]

Got it.

[D]

I think like the big summer. I think her song, when it was popular was last summer or two summers ago, but I think it was like last summer where the single from it got really big.

[C]

I do think it is a little bit maybe naive to release art into the world and expect everyone to treat it with a reverence that you treat it with like that. That is maybe short sighted and expecting everyone to. I mean, that's what I'm saying. If people are gonna make. If folks are still making jokes about Color Purple, then probably. I mean, there, there were people making jokes, people writing full lyrics about Jeffrey Dahmer.

[A]

Lyrics? You mean like a song?

[C]

Yeah, like references. There's a lot of Jeffrey Dahmer references. Not just Kesha, lots of people.

[A]

That's what I know of.

[C]

Eat your heart like Jeffrey Dahmer. And that Katy Perry song, Juicy J goes eat your heart out like Jeffrey Dahmer. And there's probably more references that I don't. That I don't even know. You know, people, people make jokes about the Titanic going down where, you know, thousands of people died. So if they're going to make jokes about Titanic, if they're going to make jokes about Jeffrey Dahmer, then it's probably fair to say that this fictional character will probably not be safe from escape.

[A]

I also think time has to pass too. Like, I don't. I mean, again, I'm not, I'm not saying nobody was, but I think that when the Titanic first happened, people weren't on the news while we were making jokes about it. You know what I mean? I think you don't know that. I don't know that. But I would venture to guess also

[C]

like this, in real time, people were making jokes about O.J. simpson killing his wife and her lover in real time, which is inappropriate as the trial was happening, which is crazy and inappropriate.

[A]

But like the Liam Payne thing, Liam Payne jumping off.

[C]

I feel.

[A]

I mean, I think it's.

[C]

Here's what I feel. I think that joke telling and humor is an art form like everything else. I really do feel that way. So if you can make a movie about it, if you could tell a story about it, if you could write a poem about it, you can tell a joke about it. The point is not that you're laughing at this thing, you're just using this thing. You're using humor as a vehicle or joke telling as a vehicle to talk about what's going on in real time. So if you. So if you.

[A]

If you think.

[C]

In my opinion, if you think it's appropriate to do an interpretive dance about something, then I think it is appropriate to be able to create whatever kind of art you create about the thing, in my opinion.

[A]

I disagree. If I died tomorrow, I mean, that's not true. If I died, I wouldn't. Depending on how I died, I would not buy jokes about my death.

[C]

But you'll be dead though, so it won't matter. You'll be dead.

[A]

I'm just saying if I was to go on and now, I wouldn't mind, but I know that's not the same. But for example, cause Liam. Oh my God. So the guy, Liam Payne from One Direction, he.

[C]

Which is a great drag name, by the way. Wandirection. Sorry, go ahead. Wanda. First name Wanda. Last name Rexon.

[A]

Wanda Rection.

[C]

Yeah. Wanda Rexion. Welcome to stage Miss Wanda. Wanda Rexon for the legendary House of Rexion. Give it up for Wanda, by the way.

[A]

Isn't it? But it will be. But dude, you wouldn't have Wanda erection.

[C]

No, that's not One Direction. That's no longer One Direction.

[A]

I know, but I wanna get erection in there.

[C]

The joke's not about erections. The joke's about Wanda. Anyway, go ahead.

[A]

Anyway, from formerly of One Direction, he. Well, first of all. So this person, he jumped over the balcony of a three story hotel room

[C]

or he may have fallen over. I don't know if it's clear that he jumped.

[A]

I think the reports came on saying that he jumped like. Like the police in Buenos Aires or the investigative forces in Buenos Aires says that this was not. Who was not pushed. This looks like someone who jumped to their death. Ok, so. Yeah, so he passed away, and it's been like, all this crazy stuff. Bitch. They are putting the body TMZ showed. Well, TMZ didn't show the whole body. They were like, we got the whole body picture, but we can't show it. But here's the arm, which means the whole body picture is out there of this dead dude in thing. And they showed pictures of his hotel room. Bitch. Drugs everywhere. They're saying that there was pink cocaine, which I don't know that I didn't know there was pink cocaine. What the fuck is. What the fuck does pink cocaine do?

[D]

It's a mix of a couple of different drugs. I think it's like cocaine, ketamine, and maybe, like, a little bit of meth. But it's like. It's like a cocktail of different drugs mixed together.

[A]

Work. And they were like laptops bash. He bashed in the TV of the hotel. Of the hotel room. And allegedly he was like. He was in the lobby just before this, like, raising hell in the lobby. But my thing is that his girlfriend was with. So, like, was she like. They haven't said it. Was she in the room when he jumped? Did she come back and she discovered that he was like. That he jumped? Like, how did, like, imagine us together and I just go off and I, like, kill myself? That is so fucking traumatic.

[C]

Yeah, I imagine that'd be very upsetting to witness. And I mean, I'll be honest. I do not know who. I didn't listen to One Direction, so I don't. I found out that Liam Payne passed away in New York City when I was getting ready for the show. And I was like, oh, I didn't know who Liam Payne was, but I obviously know who. One Direction. That's where Harry Styles is from, right?

[A]

Harry Styles and Zane Malik. Yeah, those are the only two I know.

[C]

And I mean, there's probably someone out there doing something, either a movie or an interpretation or a poem or a joke or a drawing or something of this. And I think that that is. You know, I think that's a thing about taste level. Cause some people think that it's never not too soon. I'm sure there's someone who thinks that it's not okay to make any jokes about Titanic ever, for any reason, because people did die. And, you know, what is the arbitrary limit for when someone can start creating? My question is, is it just jokes? Like, what kind of art can you make about it? What kind of art can you make about a tragedy?

[A]

There's something about laughing at a Tragedy that's different than someone dancing to it. And I know to you there's no difference. To me, I feel there is something different. Like. Like chemically that happens when I see someone laughing at someone dying, as opposed to someone doing a poem about it or someone.

[C]

You're also not laughing at someone dying. Well, you're not. I mean, like when you. When you watch someone do a. When you watch like a movie about 9 11, you're not laughing at 9 or you're not crying at 9 11. You're crying because of this interpretation of someone making a commentary on 9 11.

[A]

I think yes.

[C]

You're not crying at 9 11.

[A]

I think, yes. Both things are true. You're crying at the what you watching what you all. But I know for me, I'm crying at seeing people falling for, like jumping out of a building because they have no choice. I'm thinking about, oh my God, how bad it has to be inside. You're like, my only choice is to jump from this hundredth floor for building. I'm crying for a yes. And all those things. I'm crying at the art that the document. You know, let's take a break. I'll tell you why I'm really crying. Yeah. I'm crying at how this documenter is interpreting this and giving this information. I mean, I'm crying because what I think these people must have been going through, I'm crying with their families. So I think it's all. It's encompassing all those things. But if someone is on stage doing a tight five about 9 11, I'm laughing. And for me, I feel like I'm laughing at these people expense. I'm laughing at the drama of it all. I'm laughing that this person. Well, again, depending on what the material is and what the jokes are, I'm laughing at how they're delivering what those people were experiencing.

[C]

So, like, for example, I mean, I think it depends on what is the person saying. What is the piece of art doing? Like, for example, when someone makes a joke that says, you told Harper to beat me, you're not laughing that a fictional character was beat by her husband. That's not what the joke is. What you're doing is you're making a cultural connection, and then someone is subverting the meaning of the thing, and you're laughing at the fact that they subverted the thing. So what you and I say so when you said, so since you got your fucking degrees. Obviously, we're not making a. The joke is not, look, this woman, this character Had a really traumatic life and her daughter was assaulted by her partner and then she ended up with hiv. And then she gave birth to two babies and one of them has down syndrome. That's not what the reference is.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[C]

The reference is, do you remember the time we saw that thing? And it was about this, it was about this, this thing. So that's why I think that in my opinion, it really matters what's happening, what's being said. And if you make a joke about something, you're not necessarily joking about that thing. You're just making a reference to it or people's response to the thing.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. It's all context. It's about what the joke is and what the subject of the joke is. If the joke is, yeah, with your dead ass daddy having to jump out the top floor, blah, blah. And there's some joke about that. That to me is a little touch and go. It's like, oh my God, I feel uncomfortable laughing at that. Cause I think now I feel like I'm laughing at the expense of this person's experience of their father having to commit suicide, basically because they have to jump from the hundred floor of the building. So without knowing what the exact jokes are, it's tough to be like, yeah, it is funny. You know what I mean? I think it's all situational, all nuanced.

[C]

But I also think that sometimes laughing is involuntary. Like, you're not always laughing because you're like, laughter is. I wouldn't say laughter is as involuntary as like a sneeze or something, but some. But a lot of times when you laugh, you do not expect yourself to laugh. It just comes out, something happens and you just started laughing. Just like smiling. Sometimes smiling is involuntary. Something happened, you started smiling. Just like with the kids were watching Schindler's List. They were not going in expecting a comedy, but something happened. It made them a little bit uncomfortable in that moment and they just started laughing. Like the whole classroom started laughing 100%.

[A]

But we've all experienced a joke that was too far. And you don't laugh because you're like, this crossed the line. And I feel uncomfortable. I'm not gonna laugh. So I think there is a. I definitely have.

[C]

I think I've experienced jokes that I was like, this isn't funny. But it's not necessarily just because it went too far. It's just like the joke itself isn't funny. Like, this is not like, for example, if you go see a movie, there was a movie. I cannot remember the Name of this movie. There was a movie about 911 that came out, I mean like, like a few years after 9 11. And everyone kept being like, too soon, too soon, I cannot. And it was, it was, it was a earnestly done film. And everyone like, it's just too soon. But I think that the biggest issue was that the movie was not good. It wasn't a good movie. The movie was poorly received. Not just because of how, Jacob, you look up what that movie was called,

[D]

not because it was called World Trade Center. It came out in 2006.

[C]

That's what it was. Yes, Cage. So five years after age.

[D]

Nicholas Cage, World Trade Center.

[C]

Yeah, it came out five years after, after the, the World Trade Centers fell and people. And, and what's the ratings on this movie? Can you tell me what's the ratings on this movie, Jacob? Yeah, let me look real quick.

[D]

It was like, it's a 6 out of 10 on IMDb.

[C]

Yeah. So the movie was very poor received. And I think a big part of it was that the movie just was not necessarily done well on top of the movie happening so soon. But then you have things where people like Dave Chappelle released that. I'm gonna loosely use the word comedy short after George Floyd passed away that he filmed in his backyard. It was called like 5:13 or something. It was, it was massive. On YouTube, I think it's called 513. And I don't know that I would call it a comedy short, but he certainly felt the need to.

[D]

8:46.

[C]

It's called what, 846. 846. Which is, which is how long they were kneeling on George Floyd. Yeah, he got 34 million views and he released it pretty, pretty soon after George Floyd was murdered.

[A]

You said loosely, meaning what? There wasn't a lot of comedy in it.

[C]

Yeah, I mean to call it. It's more like it's giving TED talk. It's giving TED talk with some, with some, with a few jokes thrown in there.

[A]

Does he call it a comedy special? Like was it supposed to be a comedy special?

[C]

It's a short. It's not, it's not a special. So it's not like an hour. But he just, it just, he didn't call it anything. He just, he just released it on his YouTube page or Netflix is a joke. So I released it on their YouTube page, but it's released on Netflix is a joke, which is their stand up comedy platform. Right. So I think it's fair to say that it's intended and it's Dave Chappelle So it seems like it's fair to say that it's intended to have some humorous effect. You know what I mean?

[A]

Was it funny?

[C]

I did not find it funny, no. I also didn't find it particularly offensive.

[D]

Right.

[C]

But it certainly wasn't funny.

[A]

Got it. Yeah.

[C]

So what are you allowed. What are you allowed to do after a tragedy? Are you allowed to report on it?

[A]

I think. I think. Yeah. I think allowed to is a word. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think when a tropical happens, people are trying to find.

[C]

What do you find? Is the question I meant to ask. Not allowed. You can't force. What do you find appropriate?

[A]

I think reporting the news and what happened is important, especially if it's like. I think that's also depending on what it is. Right. If it's the death of a political world leader, reporting's gonna happen. We need to know what happened. Cause that's gonna move the needle on how nations literally function. So I think that's something. When something like Sandy Hook happens, right? You want to report the news so people in the area know what the fuck is going on. The world knows what's going on. But you also find these things when tragedy happens and people are like, when is. Especially in America, when we have gun violence, the question is always, when is it too soon to talk about laws? And when is it appropriate to send thoughts and prayers? I think these are all the things that there's conversations about.

[C]

When is it appropriate to send thoughts and prayers?

[A]

No, no, sorry, that's not thoughts and prayers. But why are we sending thoughts and prayers when we should be making legislation?

[C]

So, yeah, okay, so what about paintings?

[A]

Have paintings. So with Kobe Bryant, like, you see that a lot, but they still have. They just put up what you call it. What's the thing?

[C]

A metal.

[A]

Metal, yeah. No, a sculpture. A metal sculpture of him and his daughter downtown. Like by the Staple, not Staples Center.

[C]

But that's not a sculpture of the tragedy. That's just a painting. That's just a painting or a piece of art of Kobe Bryant in a reaction to him. Yeah, no, that's different, though. I'm talking about the difference between paying homage to just Kobe Bryant as a person. Prince dies, and then you do a painting of Prince, but it's not a painting of Prince dying. It's not about the tragedy. It is just Prince. Like, oh, Prince has passed away. I love Prince. I did a painting. So when I say of the tragedy, what about paintings? Like Paintings about 911 Paintings about Sandy Hook. Are those appropriate, in your opinion?

[A]

I don't think I've ever seen that, though. Like a story. Are you talking about these paintings of the tragedy specifically? Like, if they are?

[C]

I mean, I'm not in the art world. Jacob paints.

[A]

Maybe Jacob shooting a bunch of children in the classroom.

[C]

Yeah. Like something like, for example, it's not a painting, but, like, Childish Gambino. So Childish Gambino released a song, this Is America, where he depicted a church being shot up right after black churches were getting shot up.

[A]

Childish Gambino did this?

[D]

Yes.

[C]

You didn't see this in America?

[A]

Oh, the music video.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Got it.

[C]

So he depicted a black choir being shot up right after some black churches had been shot up. Is that so? That is him using his art to show violence, a tragedy that is referencing several tragedies that have happened. And the question is, is that appropriate, in your opinion?

[A]

I've never watched it. I think time matters. What time passed. But if I. I've never seen this in America. I know that's the thing that Taylor directed. Like, I know the video, but I don't know.

[C]

Direct that video, please.

[A]

Not director. Sorry, sorry. Style it.

[C]

You need a moment, bitch. What is going on?

[A]

He saw that video. But my thing is that, like, did it happen? Are we talking about right after. Was this a year after? If I watch it, I'll probably be uncomfortable. I'll be like, this seems like a lot to put in a musical.

[C]

It was. I mean, it was not too far off. Like, what is not too far?

[A]

Like, a month.

[C]

There have been several church shootings. Specifically that one. That one was the one in South.

[A]

In South Carolina.

[C]

It was. It was. I think it was within two years.

[A]

Within two years. I don't think that's too crazy. But if we're talking about, like, the same year, I think that. That, to me, I would watch it, like, ugh. That literally just happened. This feels inappropriate.

[C]

So, like, two years is the real.

[A]

I don't know what the answer is. I don't think we can say that there is. Oh, after one month and 29 days, you can do this thing. I don't think that's the thing. But I think that socially, like, when we watch something, there is a line where you. Like, where we can all collectively be like, this feels too much. It's kind of like saying, the other day. There is not a number when the other day is. But situationally, we can be like, oh, we all have a frame of reference of what the other day means. We're not saying, oh, it means three days from now or whatever, but we all feel like when the other day. Like, if something happened five years ago, you can't say that was the other day, but we can't say that it was two days ago.

[C]

Jake, can you look up the time difference between this is America dropping and that church shooting? I genuinely don't remember. But what I'm saying is what I think Childish Gambino was doing was making a reference to a tragedy that we were all aware of. And he wasn't. Even though it was. I mean, it was done in a really interesting way. He, like, walks into the room and he's dancing, and there's this. No, there's this choir up there singing. There's this black choir. They're singing. And then he just kind of, like, shows up on camera with this assault rifle. And then he just. He just blasts them all. He just shoots them all dead. Then he turns around and he starts singing again.

[A]

Yeah. And again, I think that people have the right to be upset about it, and people have the right to feel like this is too soon. Kind of like Ethel K. And Hasbro.

[C]

I would never say someone doesn't have the right to. If anyone knows anything of this, do anything, and it's validate your feelings. You have a right to be upset about literally anything. Sometimes we can't even explain our own feelings on why we feel the way we feel. Sometimes you just can't fathom why you're upset, why you're happy, why you're sad. But I guess my question is, to people out there, to people watching, is it appropriate to be creating art about these things? And when is there art that's accessible? And is there art that's not accessible? Like, for example, for whatever reason, Dave Chappelle got very little blowback that I saw. He probably got a lot of blowback about releasing a comedy short, a comedy special short about the death of George Floyd. Almost immediately after he passed away, like, practically zero. He did a whole thing. Now, again, there weren't a lot of jokes in there, but there was some jokes in there. And he used. And the death of George Floyd was used. And somebody made some money off of it. I don't know who did, and I don't know where, but somebody got paid somewhere. I don't know if Dave did it for free in his backyard, but the cameraman got paid. Somebody got paid. Well, everybody wasn't volunteering their services on that day. And it got. And it got 34 million views.

[A]

And the video is 20 on tick tock on. On YouTube. YouTube.

[C]

And the video is 27 minutes long. So somebody somewhere made money and I bet a dollar. Actually, I don't know for sure because I have the YouTube Super Duper OOPA YouTube. So I don't even know if they're running ads on it, but I'm sure they are. Maybe, I don't know, maybe, maybe not.

[A]

So the answer, I think what we're going back and forth and talking about is when is like what type of art is appropriate and what type of art is inappropriate, I guess is kind of the crux of what we're talking about. And my thing is that comedy, I think a little bit of time needs to pass before. Well, also, when Chiles and Gamino shot the people, was it for comedic effect?

[C]

That's for you to decide. I mean, I mean, when you watched

[A]

it, did you laugh?

[C]

No.

[D]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. So, I mean, I also didn't laugh

[C]

when I watched Dave Chappelle thing and it was clearly meant for comedic effect. It's on Netflix's Joke and I didn't laugh then either.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I've watched a lot of things Are Supposed to Be Funny and didn't laugh at all. I don't think that childish Campino thing was supposed to be for comedic effect, but it is. It's somewhere between camp and number. Like absurd. It's quite absurd. It's not actually in a church. It's just a black choir. Did you not see this video?

[A]

I think when it came out I maybe watched it. I know SZA's in it on a car at some point. I have seen that. What?

[C]

I'm just. I love that your takeaway from that video was that Sza was in a car. There were so many references in this video. In your takeaway it was like, well, SZA boy was on a car.

[A]

I have not watched on top to bottom. I just remember seeing the clip of Sza being on a car.

[C]

Oh, you haven't seen the whole thing. Got it, got it, got it. Now I understand. I thought you watched the whole thing and your takeaway was SZA was on a car.

[A]

No, I don't know.

[C]

As if that would be something wild that would come out of you that you'd be like, I just saw it. But all I remember was Sza being on a car. I don't really remember. Like, as if you forgetting a bulk of something would be so far fetched.

[A]

Well, from what you're describing, something that's very. That has a lot of. I would hope that I saw more than the sissy in the car from what you're describing this video to be.

[C]

Well, if you forgot it, I always tell people, too, like, forgetting something is not intentional. Like, it's not like you did something dirty. Like, if I met you and I. I don't remember you a second time, baby. I didn't forget you. On. You can't. I don't know that you can forget something on purpose. Like, if you. If someone forgot something or doesn't remember something, I don't think it's like, yeah, I ate them up by forgetting that thing.

[A]

I think that something is like. That's like me watching RuPaul's Drag Race. And you were like. There was. There was a. You were like, did you see the. Did you see the tall blonde guy, the judge of the hedge of the show? Did you see that? No, I just saw.

[C]

I just saw Bob.

[A]

Like, how it.

[C]

No, that would be like you filming a TV show and forgetting you filmed it. Like, literally forgetting you filmed an entire TV show that you probably spent maybe at least two days shooting.

[A]

It was not two days. It was one day. And it was eight hours.

[C]

So. Yeah, so that would be like that.

[A]

That happened months ago. It was like a year.

[C]

I'm just saying it would be like that.

[A]

Nigga, you would be the fuck like that. Let's roll to the mother. The next motherfucking question, which is, did you. Oh, can I just tell you?

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Persons plus gets me every time I need to block them, because they always get me with what?

[C]

Not wow.

[A]

Presents plus wowperzenz. The little.

[C]

I thought you were just saying it weird. I was like, why is she saying wow. Present?

[A]

No, not wowperzenz.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

Perzens plus the fucking shady parody account. So Drag Race announced. I'm gonna send this to you. Drag Race announced that they're doing South America. I was like, oh, shit, this is crazy.

[C]

Of Africa?

[A]

Yes, South Africa. Sorry, South Africa, not the whole continent.

[C]

Drag Race South Africa. Everybody from South Africa can come.

[A]

So I was like, oh, wow, that's fierce. Cause people tagged you and I in

[C]

a thing and saying, put it in this document so I can.

[A]

I'm trying to find it so I could send it to you. But then I was like, oh, this is crazy. But then while Persens plus posted, their thing came on my feed, and they were like, we also. Ha ha. We're announcing even more. It was, wow. It was Drag Race Iceland. Drag Race gre, Drag Race Japan. I was like, what? I was like, this is crazy. And then So I sent this to, like, nine people. And then someone was like, girl, that's wow. Ty was like, girl, that's wild. Pursens Plus. I was like, bitch, they fucking got me. I genuinely thought so.

[C]

Monet sent me a maybe a year and a half ago, a wow. Persons plus post. There was a handwritten note that said, RuPaul is stepping down from RuPaul's Drag Race. And by the way, it was like a screen grab. I don't know if you see me, the link or a screengrab.

[A]

I don't remember.

[C]

But I was just looking. I was like, wait, what? And then I was like, looking on RuPaul's page, and I didn't see anything. I was like, I don't know. This does look like a thing from wow. Presents. Wow, Presents Plus. But it'd be weird to announce it on wow. Presents plus and not on the RuPaul's Drag Race page. Not on RuPaul's page, not on Paramount, none of that stuff. But, yeah, you gotta block them.

[A]

I gotta block them. They get me every time. They get me every fucking time. But have you seen was on their page? I think they had to delete it because it got so much traction. Cause it's gone now. It's not on their page. But they made key art. They made fucking thing of all these five different countries. I was like, drag Race, Iceland. I was like, I've been to Iceland. They were like, how the they gonna do a whole scene with Drag Race in Iceland?

[C]

They said what they said, they said what they said.

[A]

And I was like, anyway, but have you seen the discourse online? Because you and I were tagged in it. It was like, us and like, five. Like, all the black queens. Not all the black queens, but, like, eight of us. Like, you, Bibi, me, Peppermint, Monique. And they used Yalls Nubia's pictures. And then just a picture of me, like.

[C]

And then she turned down Nubia. Continue. I'm not.

[A]

Y' all know the story. I'm not doing this. Y' all know the story about this. I'm not doing this.

[C]

You know the story. She turned up Nubia, y'. All.

[A]

Anyway, I'm not engaging in this.

[C]

That's Shea Coulee. Ask My Heart.

[A]

And then the people are like, this is so racist. To just think that just because they're black queens that they should be hosting jaggery South Africa. And someone's like, not just. They're like, you guys don't do this about any of the white queens with. When it is like, Italy Or Sweden or any. Or it's like, it's really inappropriate that you guys would just suggest that these black queens should be on Jaguar South Africa.

[C]

No, it's because we're African, bitch. That's why. But I will say this, though, it would be very strange, very strange if Bibi was not the host of the show. It would be upsettingly weird. It would not make any sense if Bebe Zahara Benet, the first winner of RuPaul's Drag Race, the first person born on the continent, Africa, to compete on RuPaul's Drag Race, was not the host of Drag Race South Africa. And I want to be clear when I say the host, I don't love this 19 host bullshit.

[A]

19 host. What do you mean?

[C]

Like the first season of Drag Race Canada, it was. They were like, taking turns doing the main stage Runway, and then they were like, oh, people only want to see Brooklyn walk down the Runway. People don't want to see, you know, this other person. People don't want to see the guest judge saying, time to come. No one wants to hear Tom Green say, the time has come to lip sync for your life.

[D]

Right?

[C]

No one wants to hear that. Even though Tom Green did say that. And if Tom Green told me to lip sync, I'd be like, nigga, you lip sync for your motherfucking life. Tom Green. My bum is on your. My bum is on your face. My bum is on your face, you fucking lip sync, bitch.

[A]

Well, I think that. I mean, I think. But here's the thing. There's a. There's one. There's a queen in the uk. I think her name is Starlet, which. Oh, yeah, it is Starlet. I follow her. She's first of all, she's fucking stunning, but apparently, I don't know, I didn't watch her season. I don't know.

[C]

Just the one that does those, like, crazy makeup things like blue and stones and. Yeah.

[A]

She is the only South American, South African born Drag Race contestant we have. And she is white. And people are like, she should be the host of Drag Race South Africa. How do you feel about that?

[C]

I think that Bebe's a Harbornet, needs to be the host.

[A]

Even though Bibi's from a different country.

[C]

Yes. Like, for example, Ritabaga is the host of. Which. Where is she from? Which one?

[A]

She is Belgium. I think she's Belgium.

[C]

I think she's French Canadian. Is she?

[A]

I thought she was Belgium. How do you say that? Belgium.

[C]

No, Belgian. Belgian.

[A]

Belgian.

[C]

Like Belgian chocolate.

[A]

Got it, got it.

[C]

Yeah, she's French Canadian. Which, by the way, shout out to Montreal. I had a great show. I'm in beautiful Montreal right now.

[A]

I love Montreal. The dick in Montreal.

[C]

I. You were gonna say that. Whenever you say you love a place, it's never the architecture. It's never the parks, it's never the clubs. It's never the food. It's always the dick. Oh, honey.

[A]

It is the food, honey. The food. Cause I ate when I was in Montreal.

[C]

But also, Monat. I don't think that the dick in Montreal is great. I think you had a good dick in Montreal. Monet has this theory that Australian dicks are giant. Cause Monet had a giant dick in Australia. I don't think. Have you seen it?

[A]

You've seen three of them, and they're all huge.

[C]

But I don't think that Australian dicks are big. Cause I've had dicks in Australia, and one of them was pretty big, actually. You better cook.

[A]

Let her cook.

[C]

Let her cook,

[A]

Girl.

[C]

But there's apparently a great bath house here. Everyone's like, you got it. And I'm like, I don't. I can't. Layla told me a story one time. I've heard of bath house. And it scared me off from bath houses forever.

[A]

I really want in one of these days.

[C]

Layla says she was at a bathhouse. Have. Doing what? Well, I probably never mind. Layla's mom, listen to the podcast.

[A]

You already told Layla's at a bathhouse. What else? I mean, our minds are working.

[C]

Love you so much, Kathy. Thanks for coming to the show in Boston, by the way, y'.

[A]

All.

[C]

Not in Boston. She came in Portland. That Boston show was so fun. Thank you so much for coming to the Boston show. Thanks for having me.

[D]

I love you.

[C]

Here is a picture of me and Monet at the Boston show. It was so much fun. The crowd really gagged because Jay Jordan gave you the perfect intro. He said, now for the winner of. They thought they were gonna say Drag Race season eight. He was like, all Stars season, season four. And they were like, what? And the crowd went crazy. And you were so funny. You did a really, really good job.

[A]

Thank you. You were so funny. Your stuff is really, really funny. Really beautiful. So well thought out. I think you did. It was a great. It was lovely seeing you those two days.

[C]

It was lovely. Is that me or y'? All?

[D]

What?

[C]

Who's ringing you?

[A]

Because we don't hear it.

[C]

Who the fuck would be calling my computer? Oh, it's a face. Oh, it's. Y' all. Don't hear that at all.

[A]

Nope.

[D]

Nope.

[A]

What are you doing? Do you need.

[C]

Do you.

[A]

Do you need time?

[C]

I know you're not talking. I know.

[A]

Do you need a minute?

[C]

I know. Little Miss Home Makeover not talking. I know. She not.

[A]

It wasn't.

[C]

She better keep her mouth shut is what she better do anyway.

[A]

We gotta wrap this up.

[C]

Keep your mouth shut.

[A]

We gotta go. We're over.

[C]

Why you cutting them short? We were 55 minutes.

[A]

No, we are not. I have to go.

[C]

You're cutting them short. So you don't want them to have a go.

[A]

You cut them short by arriving half an hour late to our podcast. Let's talk about that.

[C]

I was late, and I can acknowledge that. Not that, by the way. And I don't call you out when you're late. But I can start, nigga.

[A]

I'll start, nigga.

[C]

You bob.

[A]

This idea that I'm late more than you. This podcast is insane. Cause Jacob can cooperate. Nigga, you be late, too.

[C]

Can you ever pronounce the word corroborate?

[A]

Cooperate.

[C]

Cobweight.

[A]

What are you for?

[C]

What are you for? Coabawait. Grow up. Grow up, bitch.

[A]

I'm gonna grow up.

[D]

That's crazy. To any of our listeners with wisps or speech impediments.

[A]

Yeah,

[C]

buddy. Well, we know Monet is the king's speech.

[A]

You know what? I have been very open about my speech impediment, and you just continue tomorrow.

[C]

And I'm open about it, too.

[A]

With you.

[C]

I'm open about it with you.

[A]

My speech impediment. Yeah. Can you acknowledge the last podcast where we rewound and played you stuttering first. Will you apologize and concede now?

[C]

Yeah, I'm stutter first, but you started more.

[A]

That's not true either.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Talking about here.

[C]

So good.

[A]

And thank you. Thank you to our editor, Jay, for rewinding that. For flipping this Monet.

[C]

Victory is so rare that even I get excited when you get one. Even I get excited when you get one. I'd be like, oh, that was like. When Disney has special celebrity guests, you just look.

[A]

First one. Okay, I really have to go.

[C]

All right. I did get you guys an extra.

[A]

Rob, you are so transparent. I knew exactly what you were doing.

[C]

Because I'm trying to give our fans what they deserve. Our listeners, our patrons, our supporters, our family. Can I say one more thing for you? Go.

[A]

No, I'm. Press the end button because you're being ridiculous. I have to.

[C]

I need to say one more thing, though. I really have one more idea what I want to talk about a way for you and I to do family reunions in certain places.

[A]

We're going to do that and we'll talk about that. We talked about Agnosium when we were on the bus. We'll talk about it next week.

[C]

I have to go.

[A]

End the episode. Jacob, thank you so much.

[B]

When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want.

[C]

Like all the way.

[B]

Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. Instacart understands that not all bananas are created equal. Some people want them green, some want them ripe, some want them ready. Right now. With Instacart's Preference Picker, now available at most retailers, you can choose how you like certain items like banana ripeness, deli thickness, even avocados before your shopper even starts. So instead of crossing your fingers and hoping for the best, you get groceries picked the way you would pick them. It's a small thing, but it makes a big difference. Download the app and get bananas just how you like. With Instacart.