The One About Reality TV Featuring Peppermint

Summary

Podcast Summary: Sibling Rivalry – "The One About Reality TV" Featuring Peppermint

Date: August 21, 2023
Hosts: Bob the Drag Queen, Monét X Change
Guest: Peppermint

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Overview

This episode of Sibling Rivalry dives deep into reality television, the culture of “cancellation,” recent controversies (notably the Lizzo lawsuit), reality TV labor issues, and the broader social forces shaping pop culture and fame. Bob and Monét are joined by Peppermint (iconic drag entertainer and activist), who brings thoughtful perspectives on entertainment, marginalized identities, and systemic exploitation in media.

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Main Discussion Points

1. Recollections from School and Pop Culture (00:30–07:00)

• Bob and Monét joke about their school reading experiences:
  • Bob read "The Giver" in school and thinks it stands the test of time (05:50).
  • Monét’s class fixated on Titanic, “especially for our black and brown asses in Marine Park Middle School. The third worst middle school in New York State.” (05:09)
• Bob shares the story of Black students being villainized for laughing during a "Schindler’s List" screening, which ultimately inspires Spielberg to make "Amistad" (01:39–04:12).
• Quick pop culture detours:
  • Rumors about Beyoncé’s “Break My Soul” remix and her relationship with Lizzo and Erykah Badu (07:02–08:20).
  • Accents swap and in-jokes about Caribbean/Black sign language and fans at home.

2. Guest Introduction: Peppermint (16:28–17:50)

• Bob introduces Peppermint:
  • “A true sibling, our true sister. Welcome, Peppermint!” (16:46)
• Peppermint discusses co-hosting the "Town Hall Black Queer Podcast" with Bob:
  • The show focuses on exploring Black queerness through stories, poetry, and art, bringing in diverse voices beyond just Pep and Bob for a community feel. (18:56–20:20)
  • Key themes include interracial dating, race, and the history of drag.

3. The Reality TV Machine: Recognition, Exploitation & Awards (21:23–27:20)

• Peppermint reflects on the evolution of music and TV tech (boomboxes to car stereos) (21:27–22:18).
• Bob and Pep discuss the reality of TV awards (24:13–25:44):
  • "Four seasons is wild today."
  • "We're Here" vs "Untucked" winning Emmys, and how "Unstructured Reality" gets grouped together for awards.

4. The Lizzo Controversy: Culture, Cancellations, and Lawsuits (26:44–46:48)

The Allegations

• Monét: Lizzo’s dancers’ lawsuit seems to be a mix of actual indiscretions and “disgruntled people who got fired from their job.” (26:44–27:21)

• Peppermint:

  • Advocates for listening to victims seriously, citing Trace Lysette’s Transparent allegations (34:46–39:48).
  • Criticizes how social media rushes to a frenzy, focusing more on Lizzo’s alleged behavior than on the systemic issues of exploitation in the entertainment industry.

  Memorable Quote:

  "It’s important that we listen...it is interesting that people...are kind of, I don’t want to say doing a takedown...it brings, it really, really personifies this sort of like social media frenzy..." — Peppermint (34:46–39:48)

Systemic Factors

• Peppermint highlights how artists and dancers are exploited by a larger capitalist system, not just individual stars.
• Bob: “The reaction out of the gate, it was like accusations. That fat—I knew it was something in my spirit told me as soon as that fat got on my tv...I think what the dancers are saying is probably not 100% false, but also not 100% [true].” (42:01–42:54)
• Panel debates settling out of court—which in the court of public opinion is equated with guilt (50:34–51:11).

Media & Public Perception

• “Because the court of public opinion doesn’t need facts or anything. It just needs sensationalism.” – Bob (50:28)

5. Reality TV, Labor, and the Call to Unionize (59:11–67:18)

• Peppermint reports on Bethenny Frankel & Netflix reality contestants organizing for better conditions (59:11–62:42).
• Harsh Reality: “There was a reality TV show...called There’s Something about Miriam...where at the end they go, ‘Gotcha, Miriam is trans.’” – Bob (62:42–64:13)
  • Detrimental effects of exploitative unscripted TV, including psychological harm, outing, and even suicide (65:51–66:48).
• Bob’s wish for a reality show centering a Black trans woman—without deception or gotcha—finding real love (67:57).

6. The Realities of the "Court of Public Opinion" (46:48–51:35)

• Panel discusses the speed at which artists and public figures are “canceled” based on accusations, before any legal facts are established (44:01–46:48).
• Monét and Bob express frustration:
  • “...for years, decades, whatever it is, to know that it can all go away because of an allegation that you know…is not true...It’s like a scary place to be in.” – Monét (50:34–51:08)
• Peppermint: “Settling is an admission of guilt." (51:08–51:11)

7. Surrealism, Satire, and Reality TV Chaos (53:20–74:41)

• Tangents about Black Mirror and reality TV algorithms: “There’s an episode...where bees, connected to the algorithm, attack whoever is the most hated person on the Internet.” — Bob (53:38–54:12)
• The group lampoons various reality show formats, expressing hope for more inclusive, ethical, and truly queer dating shows (69:11–73:45).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Lizzo Controversy:

  • “What we're gonna do is potentially the only thing that would be changed in this situation is only Lizzo's alleged behavior, but not the system that puts these people...in a situation that they could be vulnerable.” — Peppermint (39:49–40:56)

• On Social Media & Capitalism:

  • “We're in a system...that allows that sort of behavior from these corporations to put people out there, parade them...And the minute something happens...suddenly it's, ‘I hated that bitch!’ And I just think that that is busted.” — Peppermint (45:46–46:48)

• On TV Labor & Exploitation:

  • “It's crazy to me how you can...how the entire crew, everyone is union except the players who are being captured on film.” — Monét (66:59–67:18)

• On Genre Evolution:

  • “We took five hot locals and threw them in the middle of the Mojave Desert. It's like, come on.” — Bob (72:26)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:30–07:00: Back to school & pop culture nostalgia/riffs
• 16:28–20:36: Peppermint joins, podcast introductions, Black queer storytelling
• 24:13–25:44: Reality TV awards and Emmy talk
• 26:44–34:46: Lizzo lawsuit, workplace boundaries, and industry culture
• 34:46–41:21: Peppermint’s thoughtful take on systemic exploitation, listening to survivors
• 46:48–51:08: Panel on legal settlements, public opinion as judge/jury
• 59:11–67:18: Peppermint on labor organizing in unscripted TV; historic harm in reality shows
• 67:57–74:41: Ideal reality formats, critique of current dating shows, calls for inclusion

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Takeaways

• The group critically dissects reality TV as both entertainment and an exploitative system.
• They urge listeners to differentiate between actual legal or ethical accountability and social media-driven “cancellation.”
• Peppermint, Bob, and Monét all advocate for better unionization and protection for reality TV contestants and workers.
• There is a longing for smarter, more ethical, and inclusive reality TV formats.

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Tone and Style

Sibling Rivalry retains its signature comedic, irreverent energy. While it’s full of tangents and playful trolling between co-hosts, the episode is marked by real thoughtfulness, particularly in conversations with Peppermint about labor, exploitation, and the nuances of public outrage in social media times.

---

For listeners seeking clarity on the Lizzo case, hot takes on reality competitions, and a funny yet critical look inside queer pop culture, this is a must-listen episode.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

My name is Bob the Drag Queen.

[C]

And I'm Monet X change.

[B]

And this is simply rivalry. On this week's episode, we revisit middle school literature.

[C]

We invite Peppermint to talk about reality television.

[B]

And we found out what made Monet say this, y'.

[C]

All. That was a Freudian slip. That's what Bob would really think. Y' all saw a peek into the real Bob the Fucking Drag Queen. Okay? And we find out what made Pep say this.

[D]

And then they stopped him and said, go back into that room. She's sick. We can't film her. Wink, wink. But if you go and bring her and sit her by the window by the bed and then lean in. Cause you have a microphone, then we can capture her. And we find out what made Bob say this.

[B]

Don't you hate when you accidentally watch 18 hours of telev? Have you heard the story of how Amistad was. Was the movie was thought of?

[C]

No.

[B]

So there was this. This school. Ah, man, I'm gonna get this wrong. Probably somewhere in California, there's a black school that got in trouble because they went to a. A high school field trip to. To go see Schindler's List.

[C]

And the Schindler's List is a German. A German Jewish wartime World War II movie.

[B]

Yeah. Directed by Steven Spielberg.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And they were laughing during the. They were laughing during the. During the movie at various things, mostly because they were probably uncomfortable. And some of that was really, really. It was aggressively violent. It was. You know, and there was one more where they were. They were, like, talking. They were talking, just laughing. Let me. They weren't just. They were talking a lot because they were high school kids. And then at one point, during one of the violent scenes, there was like an outburst of laughter because one person said something. Everyone started laughing. They were asked to leave the theater. And then it became national news that these black kids were thrown out of this movie theater in California for Laughing during. It was really boiled down to. Which I just did. I just did it myself. But it was the headlines boiled down to, like, black kids laugh during Schindler's List. Thrown out of school. And it ended up being an issue so big that the governor of California and Steven Spielberg himself came to the school to have a conversation about it. Because these black kids were really being villainized, as if they just went to homicide and just started laughing. And they were being painted as. What did I say?

[C]

Amistan.

[B]

Oh, yeah, sorry. Shannon's List. And laughing as painted as anti Semitic. And then in the middle of the. The. The assembly, the kids had actually been having a lot of talks with each other and to their families and to other community leaders. And then one of the kids said to Steven Spielberg something along the lines of, well, have you ever. Why are you only telling the story? Have you ever told any stories of any other. Have you told the story of the black genocide?

[C]

And then I didn't know Steven Spielberg made.

[B]

He directed Amistad. And then he said, you know, maybe one day I will. And then a few years later, Amistad was released.

[C]

Amistad. We never watched Amistad in school. We talked about it, but we never watched a movie. And this was in middle school that we had, like a whole Amistad unit. But instead, do you know what movie we did focus on, though? We watched because my teacher, my middle school teacher, my seventh grade English teacher, Ms. Negri, was obsessed with this film. She had all the models in her room, posters, everything. She was obsessed. Titanic. And we had, when I tell you, an extreme extensive part of our curriculum was about the Titanic.

[B]

Did you not like that?

[C]

No, but I feel like there were other things we could have focused on, other books that were more important than. Than the Titanic.

[B]

You said Titanic's a book.

[C]

I think there is a book about it, isn't there?

[B]

Yeah, but Titanic's not like, I wouldn't say the Titanic is a book. I would say the Titanic is a happening. Like it was a thing.

[C]

But I'm sure someone wrote a book. Like, we concentrated on reading the Titanic and talking about it and dissecting this phenomenon of the Titanic and what it meant to the world. I'm like, I just feel like for seventh graders, there were other things that we could have focused on that were more important, especially for. For our black and brown asses in. In Marine Park Middle School. The third worst. The third worst middle school in New York State.

[B]

And then you graduated and it became number four.

[C]

I'm just kidding.

[B]

You know, when I Was in seventh grade, we read. I only remember we read like two or three books a year. I remember my. Every year of school. I think we read at least two books, two or three books a year. But the only book I remember reading in the seventh grade was the Giver.

[C]

We didn't read that.

[B]

The Giver is a great book. I read it again as an adult, and I want to say it still stands the test of time. Well, I was in my 20s, so this was like, probably over. Over 15 years ago that I read this book, but it still gave. No pun intended. It is a very. It is a. The Giver is a very good book. Very, very good. The movie got very bad reviews.

[C]

I'm trying to untrain my mind because, as I said many times, I have a lot of trauma around reading because of my speech impediment. So I'm trying to untrain my mind with that.

[B]

Listen to books and.

[C]

But no, but there's something. There's a. There is a different. Yes, you guys, I listen to books, but there's a different thing about opening a page. And like, really, when you. When you're reading information, you're receiving it a different way because also you're.

[E]

You're.

[C]

You're just engaging different senses, like when you're reading a book. So I. To you, I want to start reading again. And I'm trying to entertain mind. So I've been. I've been. I've been. I'm slowly dipping my toe back into the reading of fantasy because reading is, I acknowledge, fundamental. Yeah, I acknowledge how fun also reading can be. But it's just like trying to get my mind around the trauma, which I guess it's positive trauma.

[B]

Honestly, honey, when it puts the dumb and fundamental.

[C]

Badu, Badu, Badu, Badu. Wait. So Bob and I, before we got. Bob and I are talking about. About how everyone made up this fucking. This fucking multiverse of madness. How Beyonce repeated Erykah Badu's name over and over in the Queen's remix section of Break My Soul because of the stuff with Lizzo. Like, the Internet. When I say the Internet made this story and ran with it. Oh, like, yeah, Beyonce doesn't fuck with Lizzo no more. I was like, where do people even.

[B]

So Tina Knowles.

[C]

It happened on the same time. It happened around the same time.

[B]

Tina Knowles came out and was like, that's not a thing. Tina Knowles is like, I'm. I'm really paraphrasing. I'm really paraphrasing what Tina Knowles said. It was not Like, But. But Tina Knowles was essentially like, I don't know if that's the full story, basically. And then, of course. So now she said it again. And then one of the night, she said it with emphasis. With emphasis, honey. She's like Badu Lizzo.

[C]

Yeah, so it was. And then. But also. But the. Shared with Erykah Badu was that Erykah Badu. Because Beyonce has that big hat that she wears in the formation section. And Erykah Badu, I think, posted a picture or commented be like, oh, so I see everybody wearing big hats now.

[B]

I'm everyone's fashion icon now. Or something like that.

[D]

Yeah, but everyone's stylist.

[B]

I'm everyone's stylist. But also. We don't know that.

[C]

We don't.

[B]

But we don't know that that was. She would be. Beyonce is just out here saying stuff in fun ways. I don't think it was too badu. I think there was one thing Beyonce said on tour that could be pointed back at one person, which is toward her mom, the Weeknd, and Donald Glover. When she kind of made a statement about the. The. The series the Hive.

[C]

Oh, she did what she said and see that. What did she say?

[B]

It was so indirect. She was like, yeah, we are that Hive. Or something like that. It was something along those lines.

[C]

It was.

[B]

It was like the very first show.

[C]

I watched the first episode of Swarm and Swarm.

[E]

Swarm.

[B]

Sorry, that's what I meant. Swarm.

[C]

Yeah, I swore the first episode. It looks like a really good series. I love that actress. I love her. Her interviews are so good. She did an inter. What?

[E]

Not.

[C]

She was in her interview and she was talking for Transformers. She's talking about how she does ASL and why she learned American Sign Language. And she's so charming and she's so gorgeous. And I watched her first episode. It looks really good, but I haven't watched because I didn't realize it was gonna be a horror. And I just don't think I'm in. I wasn't in a horror space. You know what I mean?

[B]

Boo.

[C]

What the fuck is wrong with you? What the fuck is wrong with you? You fucking fuck.

[B]

It's wrong. What did you.

[C]

You're sick. You need to be hospitalized.

[B]

I haven't watched Swarm. Oh, my God. That was so good. I really enjoyed that. Woo. I was inspired. I felt inspired. I have a lot of friends who know ASL people in my life.

[D]

Jacob.

[B]

Jacob knows sign language. And before you all run, Jacob. I don't. Jacob isn't like fluent fluent but he knows it pretty well. But if you run Jacob in the street, start doing his sign language, it might be a little overwhelming. So don't be like, Bob said you was gonna be affluent. My friend Taylor knows sign language. My friend Rose Montoya is completely fluent in sign language.

[C]

Do you know asl?

[B]

Wait, no.

[D]

Taylor Stylist Taylor or, like, house carpenter

[C]

Taylor Work Taylor Kennedy? I don't know who that is.

[B]

You remember I was at his house at one time, and his hands. You're like, whose hands are those?

[C]

Atlanta. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Do you know asl?

[B]

I know a few things in asl. I can say table. I can say computer. I can say wear. I say skin.

[C]

It's so interesting to me that we don't have, like, a. Like, every country has their own. Obviously, we know this, but it's so. It's so crazy that we didn't, like, develop, like, for sign language. That seemed like we should be able to develop, like, a universal one so it's, like, a little easier, but maybe there's a lot of crossover that would

[B]

be, like, universal language.

[D]

I mean, this thing is like.

[B]

Because they'd be like. That'd be like, why don't we have a universal spoken language?

[C]

This is true. Because at my show here, we have a British sign, like a bsl. And on the thing, they were like, today we're have bsl, And I'm like, what the fuck are we going to

[B]

sell black sign language?

[C]

I know. Not black.

[B]

Yes, it's black sign language. It's like, in black sign language, like. Like, this means something different than when white people go.

[D]

I mean, there is a black sign language. It's the same as aave, but for sign language work.

[C]

Well, anyway, it was the British sign language interpreter we had in my show.

[B]

AISL is also another thing. AI American, Italian sign language, y'. All.

[C]

Oh, my God. Anyway, I don't even know what I was fucking talking about. I'm so confused what the fuck I

[A]

about was talking thing.

[D]

You were at a show, they had

[C]

a British sign language interpreter, British interpretator. And, you know, she was a white woman. And then, you know, so, you know, I say the N word in my act a few times.

[D]

And then.

[C]

So, like, Patty didn't want to, obviously, because Patty's, like, trying to, like, ask for me. And he's like, so in this show, you know, Monet's says words that she can say.

[B]

Not petal, miss up your ass, Monet say. And Patty.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Patty has a slight Southern accent. I would say more Slight. More slight than mine, but it's very slight. Like I have a slight Southern accent.

[D]

You.

[C]

I hear you. I don't hear them. Patty. I do not hear Patty. Southern.

[B]

I don't hear a Southern accent in me.

[C]

Yes, I do. I've told you this. We talked about this on the podcast before. I do.

[B]

And I hear Caribbean accent in you. Okay, I'm not down, but do something out now. You know exactly what it means. Stop acting like you don't know what it means. You know what bamba down Badusa down down means? Stop acting like you don't know what that means. You literally know what it means. Can you make that. Can you put that song on your album? Bamba down Badusa down down Badusa down down Bamba down Badusa down down Throw it round when you come to my town hey bam ba dum Badusa down down. That's honestly kind of slaps.

[D]

Does it?

[C]

So. Yeah, I think I just want to get our guest in here because I just love talking to her. She's so funny and I'm watching her little square and seeing how her hair is just blowing. Peppermint always has just a natural breeze. Just blowing in her.

[B]

A natural plugged in breeze. You act like she stormed from X Men, the whole winds from the southern seas and the Caspian.

[C]

So let's take a break.

[B]

I know Monet doesn't own a fan. See, I think Monet is blown away because Monet forgot that people own fans.

[C]

It's crazy to me. People don't own fans anymore.

[B]

No, Monet, people do own. You were the one saying no one owns a fan. And me and Matea was like, everyone has a fan.

[C]

Do you have a fan?

[B]

Yes, I have a fan. Everyone has.

[C]

I ain't never seen that fan.

[B]

Everyone has fans. Monet was. Monet was on the pod to literally be like, don't nobody have fans.

[C]

I was like, Monet 1999. Nobody has fans anymore.

[B]

We all have fans. Everyone on this call has a fan.

[C]

Have you, Bob? I have never seen you with a fan in your house.

[B]

That's not true.

[C]

In your new house. When. When did you. When do you have a fan?

[B]

I've had the same fan from. From my old house and the home before that. It keeps traveling with me. I don't throw it away and get a new fan every time I move. I have. I probably have three fans in this house.

[C]

Next time I walk to your house, plug that up and I want the fan to greet me at the front door. If this. If this mystical, magical Fan literally like exists somewhere I want to see.

[B]

It'll be there with the Roomba. We'll talk about the Roomba after this break.

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[D]

Close your eyes.

[A]

Exhale.

[D]

Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[A]

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[D]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

1-800-contacts contacts. I would like to welcome to the podcast the. The. The co host and co founder of my other podcast, Town Hall Black Queer Podcast. Please welcome to sibling rivalry. A true sibling, our true sister. Welcome, Peppermint. Hey, y'.

[D]

All. Hi.

[C]

From another mother, Peppermint. She's like one in a million.

[B]

If. If brother from another mother means we have the same mom, sister from another, and sister from another, Mr. Means we have the same dad.

[D]

Baby daddy. Baby daddy. It's playing child support.

[B]

So, Pepper. So Peppermint, if you don't know, Peppermint and I have a have a podcast called Town hall of Black podcast, which we are incredibly proud of.

[C]

Because Peppermint and my podcast, we, we couldn't find the time. So we were like, oh, yeah. I was like, you should probably do the one with Bob. But she wanted to do one with me first.

[B]

That'd be fair. Pep ironically couldn't find time to hang out with you. Pep ironically was like, I'm busy that day. Oops.

[D]

Y', all.

[C]

I'm just saying, don't believe that.

[D]

I know what's up Y' all don't. Come on. Hey, hey, hey, hey.

[B]

All the room was telling me to go around.

[D]

Yeah, wouldn't that be interesting if I did have a podcast, another podcast with Monet, then we'd all have podcasts with each other in different situations.

[B]

Yeah, me and Bob, you and I

[C]

could do a music podcast. Like, I feel like we did, like, a music podcast where we talk about, like, new music that's come out for new people and, like, just dissect it. Because we both love R B. We both R B girlies. Bob swears he's an R B girly. He's not.

[B]

First of all, I've never said. I have never claimed to be an arm. I've never once been like, I. I'm an rm. I've never even said I love R B.

[C]

Intimate that you are. You intimated you are.

[B]

I've said I like R B, but I've never been like, I'm an R and B girly. I listen to girl rap.

[D]

Anyone knows Black Queer podcast comes out

[B]

a lot, A lot less us arguing. Anyone who knows me knows that my brand. I love girl rap. I love listening to girl rap. GGT Rap is really my thing. But I've never been like, you know what? I'm deep into Tank. I love me some fucking Tyrese. I can't stop listening to Tyrese.

[C]

Okay, you say you old without saying you owe, not Tyrese and Tank. What you mean?

[D]

Like, so tell me about this podcast. What do you. What's. What's this Town hall podcast all about?

[B]

So Town hall is where we. Where we explore themes on black queerness through poetry, through art, through a varying depth of hilarity. But what's great about Town hall is it's not just me and Pep talking. We also bring in each episode, we bring in at least three other people and three other perspectives where they get. Where they get to tell their stories to you. It is a community based podcast, so it's not just me and Pep sharing our thoughts back and forth. We allow people to come on. We have some amazing producers who gather some really, really, really good stories based on things.

[D]

And it's not necessarily like, it's not a hot topics show. We talk about themes and things that have historically. We talk about relevant issues, but we are able to connect them to, like, things that have historically affected or influenced or inspired the queer black community. And so we're able to bring people on and they share their own stories, they share their own experiences, and we talk with those people and we also comment Sometimes and give our own opinions about some things. It gets really, really interesting. And we're celebrating our second season. Congratulations, Bob, and congrats. We just launched our second season. Thank you. And we. Our first two episodes, we went in. Honey, we went in on interracial dating. We went in. Then after that, if you didn't get enough, then we went in on. And Jacob would love this race.

[B]

Race. And also the history. We talk about the history of drag. You can listen to it anywhere you listen to podcast. It's also available in video form over on my YouTube page. And each episode has a video that goes along with it. Each episode has a full video that goes along with it.

[D]

It's true.

[B]

Pep is the. Pep is Pep hosted the first New York City nightlife show I ever went to. And I remember the first time I ever saw Pep out of drag was at Wigs, Not Wigs. And plus, it was at Orange.

[C]

Orange Beauty.

[B]

You remember? What's that story on 125? Is it orange Beauty? Orange Beauty with it with me and Frosty Flakes were. Were on the stairs. And then I just heard this very familiar voice behind me. Go, bitches. You are bitches. Both of you are bitches. And I turn around, I was like, oh, my God. And Pep was wearing some overalls. I remember you wearing some overalls today. And she was. And she was. This is the Pepsi in the blonde. In her Eve. In her Evie Eve phase, when she had. When she had the blonde. The blonde hair.

[C]

Blonde Eve. Oh, my God, I used to love Eve.

[D]

Wait, it wasn't the 80s. It was the 80s with the boomboxes on the shoulder. Not the 90s. 90s people, definitely. I'm not saying nobody had a boombox in the 90s, but I'm saying, like, people carried around those speakers because, like, Walkman and C.D. walkman were not, like, as widespread as they were in the 90s. In the 90s, like every. It was. People had a lot of portable stuff. People used boomboxes, of course, like, but I think car stereos became more popular in the 90s and. And said if you wanted the whole neighborhood to hear your music, you just play it from your car. In the mid to late 90s, in the 80s, it was like they called it a ghetto blaster. And you would use your ghetto blaster and carry it around so that everybody could hear you.

[C]

That's actually my affectionate name for Bob. My ghetto Blaster. Ghetto Blaster.

[B]

I used to be a test for the character. I used to be obsessed with the character Radio Raheem do the right thing. Radio Raheem was a. Was a guy who would just, like, cheer up the neighborhood with his music. He was. He was. But he. I mean, I. I guess I could say spoiler alert. Even though the movie is literally, like, over 30 years old at this point, but Radio Raheem has an untimely demise at the hands of the authorities.

[D]

I review the movie with you. No, no.

[B]

We did voidic justice.

[D]

Okay? I reviewed the movie in my pep talks. Summer black movie season.

[B]

Don't the cops shoot Radio Raheem. It's the cops, right, dude? The cops.

[D]

Strangle him.

[B]

Strangle him. That's what it is. Yeah.

[D]

Did I watch that? Did you watch that?

[C]

The Spike Lee movie that they made into a series on Netflix? She's.

[D]

She's got to have it.

[C]

Did you watch it?

[D]

I didn't watch this. I haven't watched the series.

[C]

It's really good. I'm really mad they cut it off. That lead. She was so good on screen.

[B]

What do you mean they cut it off?

[D]

It wasn't canceled.

[C]

It was only two seasons. It didn't renew for third. Oh, but she was so good. And it was so. I really enjoyed the series, and I thought it was gonna be, like, have, like, a long life, but it didn't.

[B]

Two seasons is not bad in the world of television and film today.

[D]

These days. These days.

[B]

Yeah, these days. First of all, a pilot is wild if you get your show taken to a pilot. My show. I'm not on the show anymore, but I was once on a show called We're Here. We did three seasons together. Now they're doing a. And now they're doing a fourth season with Jada Essence Hall, Sasha Velour, and Priyanka. And. And people are like. People are like, maybe only. Even if we only had gotten even. The show only got three season. Four seasons is wild today. Four seasons is a wild. I mean, break bad.

[D]

With only five seasons, like, well, if the show's Emmy nominated, then it's. Then I'd say that's a better marker than Emmy. Winning Emmy nominated and winning multiple Emmy nominated.

[B]

We actually got. We actually got. We actually only got one. It's actually. We actually only got one Emmy nomination. We have two Emmy wins, which is kind of weird because there's a thing called jury votes. So we were nominated in our first year, and we were never nominated again, but then we won two Emmys of the second year even though we weren't nominated.

[D]

Okay, that's interesting. Well, yeah, but I think that's a really good sign. Even past, like, how many seasons you have. Yeah. Sometimes the Emmys, what gets the second season, the third season happening.

[C]

That is true. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

We lost our first year to cheer, and then Untucked won that same award that we were nominated. They had a scandal. And then Untucked won that same award the year we skipped out a year on the Emmys because of the. Because of the Ponder play. But the weird thing to me is, like, this is no shade to untuck. Someone who's been on Untucked and someone who's been on We're Here. We're Here is just a.

[D]

It's not kind of situation.

[B]

It's. We're Here is just a.

[D]

In my opinion, they don't even gather. They don't even gather to do Untucked. Untucked is literally like the. Be the behind the scenes of something already happening. Just people sitting in the break room. Literally people sitting in a break room.

[B]

Yeah. Unstructured reality.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I guess.

[D]

And I get.

[C]

But I feel like, yes, I understand how we're. Hair is unstructured. Unstructured. But I feel like there is a lot of structure to it. In the same way, I feel like y' all should not be in the same category.

[D]

There's a format. There's a format.

[B]

It's because it's not. It's because it's not competitive, and it's not competitive, and it's not Real Housewives.

[D]

It's just people sitting around, watch. Drinking drinks, taking off their wigs.

[B]

Exactly. So if it was like. So if it was like, watch out for the big Girls, which is like a competitive show, which won't. Or if it's like RuPaul's Drag, or if it's like RuPaul's Drag Race, which is a competitor show that won, or if it's like, then those. Those are competition reality programs. And then you have Unstructured, which is just like, we're in town doing this stuff. Let's just see what happens.

[C]

I love the Watch out for the Big Girl season one. I thought it was such a good show. I was addicted. I watched the whole season. Hot take in in two days. It was a good show. But I mean. I mean, are we.

[D]

Are we.

[B]

Are we. Are we going hot take.

[C]

Are we gonna talk about it or no?

[B]

Fresh out the oven.

[C]

Are we gonna talk about it or no?

[D]

Yeah, we can talk about it.

[B]

We can talk about it again.

[C]

So I. When the academics first came out, I was like, wow, this is crazy. And then Lizzo responded. I was like, this is crazy. And now the girls gave the three, or the two women and their lawyer, they had their takes talking about it. And I was like, this is very interesting. Like, what it sounds like to me. And again, I'm out there. I don't know. What it sounds like to me is that, yes, there were some indiscretions that happened that maybe Lizzo, being someone in a position of power, maybe she might have. Whatever. But at the same time, it just sounds like these people are disgruntled because they got fired from their job.

[B]

Can I say something real quick? Bob the drag queen side tangent, which someone in the comments is going to hate.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think I know how to pronounce the word. L A, Y, E, R. How do you pronounce that word?

[C]

Layer.

[B]

No. L, A W. Sorry. L A W, Y, E, L. I don't think I know how to pronounce it.

[D]

Lawyer.

[B]

It's lawyer.

[C]

Lawyer.

[B]

Not lawyer. Lawyer.

[C]

Lawyer.

[B]

I say lawyer. Oh, it's a lawyer.

[C]

Lawyer.

[B]

Lawyer.

[C]

Yeah. Lawyer.

[D]

Lawyer.

[C]

Lawyer.

[B]

You're like. You a lot a liar. Maybe that's. Maybe that's.

[D]

But it sounds like you're saying liar with a bad British accent. Now he's a liar.

[B]

My cousin a lawyer. My cousin is a lawyer.

[D]

It sounds like you're calling your cousin a liar.

[C]

This lawyer on Tick Tock broke it down and like. Like she, like, read. Like she. Like she written. She read the suit and she was saying, yeah, like these girls.

[B]

I think she's a patron, by the way. I think she's a patron.

[D]

Say lawyer.

[B]

I was like, no, that. That lawyer is she. I think that lawyer is a patron.

[C]

Yeah. And she's basically like, these is what? She didn't say this, but she's like, these is walling. Lizzo is not in the wrong here. And I was like, yeah, I don't. I don't see how she is. But I'm not a lawyer. I don't fucking know what am I?

[B]

So I. Whenever you are on. In a position of power on a TV show, in my experience, anyway, at the beginning of the season, you have to have this sexual harassment training or not. Sorry, not sex harassment. Workplace harassment. And it doesn't just involve sexual. You have to have a workplace harassment training. And I realized in that training that a lot of things can be considered workplace harassment. I found out that it is workplace harassment if I tell. If telling dirty jokes is part of the job, which for my line of work, it literally is. If Telling dirty jokes is part of the job. And one of my employees is very Christian, and I don't include them on the writing of the dirty jokes. That is also a form of workplace harass or discrimination. Yes. If I'm like, well, Monet, I know you're very, very religious, so we just didn't ask you. So we're gonna do the dirty joke segment alone, and then we'll get back to you. When we do, like, the jokes that aren't dirty, that is considered workplace discrimination.

[C]

I can't.

[D]

Okay, which. Which if you've given her the option, maybe it wouldn't have been considered workplace discrimination.

[B]

But then. But then they were saying. And someone in the. Someone. Some lawyer is going to tell me that I'm. That I misremembered. Which is probably true. Laws, obviously, people study a very long time to. But then even giving them the option especially puts them in an awkward position where they now have to. They could feel pressured to either participate or not participate because of the nature of the job. If I'm like, because of your religious suicide, I don't want to make you uncomfortable, so I'm not going to have you do the dirty joke segment of my show. Okay.

[C]

Right. Well, I mean, it's also the thing, too. Like, this is like. Like, for example, when we had the tour with the Juicies and stuff, and they're always like, y', all, Bob Monet, let's go out. I'm like, no, I'm good. I'm gonna stay here. Like, Like, I just. I. I. A part of me just does not feel comfortable just going out to a club and stuff.

[B]

You talk about who the Juices are.

[C]

Oh, the Juicy's are the dancers of the House of Juicy Couture. And they were our dancers on Cinema

[B]

who competed on where specifically? The ones who competed on Legendary.

[C]

Yeah. Besides with Lolita. Lolita. Lolita was not. But everyone else was who was on. On Legendary.

[B]

So Dyu Day Kamiyah. And her name is Change.

[C]

It's not. It's not. It's not Brooklyn anymore. She doesn't go by Brooklyn anymore. I forget. I forget her name. And then, so, like, well, formally Brooklyn, the brand. Yeah. I would always, like, be like, no, I'm okay, guys. I'm gonna stay here and hang out. You know what I mean? Because I just. There's a. There's a. That, to me, just does not feel appropriate to be hanging out in the club, drinking with the dancers, people you work with.

[D]

It's not.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It just doesn't feel Good.

[D]

Something always goes south for sure. Always. When you go out drinking, either y' all are going to end up having sex or y' all going to end up fighting, or y'. All, somebody's going to end up being offended. You know, that just always happens with alcohol. Yeah.

[B]

And I used to go to the strip club with the Work the World girls. We'd all get together and go, well, not always, but we went to a few strips, went to stag together, and we went to Swinging Richards together. RIP Swinging Richards. We went to Swinging Riches together, which is where I had.

[D]

Yeah, girl closed down last year.

[B]

One of the things we lost in the fire, girl. And I really. Which one? I had one of my favorite Violetsky moments that I talk about all the time. And I will retell the story if you haven't. It is Violet.

[D]

Was that so much family she still lived in?

[B]

No, we were all. We were all on tour together. So me and Violet sat down and we were like, if you want a stripper to come to you, you just lay out your money and they will just like walk over to the money. Right? So me and Violet laid out all this. All this money. All this money. And this guy walked over and he started dancing. And then he leaned down and he was like, you know, I'm straight. And then Violet leaned back, scooped up all of her dollar. All of her money, put it in one little stack and said, not my gay dollars, and walked up, got up and walked away. That was one of the most iconic. And I followed you. I said, and not mine either.

[D]

Well, that is. It's so. It's such a. It's a mind fuck, I guess. Because, you know, when that's the thing. That's the thing that even if he wasn't straight, even if he was gay, I'm sure that the straight ones get most of the attention. I mean, the hot ones get probably most of the attention. But if you're straight, then if you're straight and masculine in that sort of scenario, that is really what's rewarded and sort of chased. So, you know, it's just funny that he didn't. I think he was probably used. Femme. Yeah, he's used to dealing with femmes who, like, accept their identify as heterosexual because they are more in the mind of thinking of themselves as a woman and living in the life as a woman. And, you know, and so he probably thinks, wow, like, you know, a femme is up in here, she's really gonna want a straight guy.

[B]

Yeah, I think he saw two. I think he saw two Fags. And he was like, they're gonna love this. And then we were like, girl, not on today, honey.

[D]

Not on today. Did you see his face, though?

[B]

He was. He was very confused. But we made.

[D]

No, you straight, but now you confused.

[B]

But we. Yeah, but we made the decision not to look back. We're like, we can't look back. We lose our dignity. We lose our dignity. So I just stood up and I gathered my dollars, and I was like,

[D]

yeah, and what, you went over to the. You went over to the dancer that was voguing in the corner?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Okay, we got you. Yeah, no, we gotta take a break. We'll be right back. We'll talk more about the Lizzo stuff after this break. Okay, So I didn't give my take, and Pep didn't give her take about the Lizzo thing. Should we get. Should I let you go first, Pep, as I'm giving our guests the mic. The floor.

[D]

Yeah. Mine's complicated, but I'll try to speak fast. Yeah, listen, I think I'm all for victims being able to hear, making space for victims of sexual harassment. I remember that. I remember when Trace Lysette so bravely came out and disclosed in, together with Van Barnes, the allegations against Jeffrey Tambor on the set of Transparent. And we all know how that turned out. And I think that was really difficult time for everyone involved, but certainly for Trace and Van, who were the. Trace was a co star on the hit show Amazon show Transparent, which was a groundbreaking show, and it was so precious for so many reasons. And so I can't. I can only imagine that if I was a star on that show or even featured on the show having anything to do with that show saying something against its main star, who, you know, he was the biggest star in the show at the time and won an Emmy for his performance, you know, kind of daring to possibly, like, damage the reputation of her, sink that ship. It's probably. Was not an easy thing. At least it wouldn't be easy for me, I think. I don't know. I don't know if it would be or not, but. So I just think back to that, and I remember talking to her and how difficult it was. So it's important that we listen to this story, and I think it'll all come out in the wash. But what I have an issue. What I'm really. What I find interesting is the reaction of the fans and the people that are watching this all unfold. And we're obviously in the early stages of this, and, you know, seeing we don't have all the information. We probably won't until there's like, some kind of legal proceedings or something like that. Yeah. And so, you know, but it is interesting that there's people that are kind of. I don't want to say doing a takedown, but it's interesting to see the reactions of people. And it just brings. It really, really personifies this whole, like, sort of, like social media, like, frenzy that we all are constantly living in, where people are, like, criticizing Lizzo, which. She's open to criticism. She's a public figure, and she's a. The boss of these people in this situation. But Lizzo is, I think, in a bigger sense aside the fact that Lizzo does often talk about, like, you know, body positivity and all these different things. She's an ally to the queer community. And so some people might see this as a contradiction in her behavior, but I view Lizzo as a product, a byproduct of this system, this capitalist entertainment system that we're in that really, like, aims to put up for sale and exploit the bodies of all these types of people. Queer people, black people, big people, disabled people, women, obviously women. And the entertainment industry will be the first to push out in front of an audience and sell the sex, sexuality, and everything that they can, anything that they can, and T shirts of these entertainers and really not provide that much protection or space for these dancers for Lizzo. I'm not saying Lizzo needed to be protected from the dancers. I'm just saying that, like this situation, Lizzo's in a situation where she's essentially, in some ways being exploited for. I'm not saying in the case of. In this situation, but just in general, in the entertainment industry, Lizzo and other women. And so people really want to buy into this whole system. And they want to, like. They want to buy the tape and buy. Not the tape and the cd. They want to buy the music and buy the merch and follow the account of. And look at every story of, and then be the first to comment. And these people aren't really involved in this situation. They have no idea. You know, it's a shame that what they are commenting on is only Lizzo's alleged behavior, which deserves to be criticized, but not the circumstances that put these dancers and Lizzo in a situation that they. That they could be, you know, vulnerable. And, you know, when you're on tour, and like you said when you were on tour, Monet, a lot of times when you're on tour, there isn't like An HR rep going around on the tour with you, it's. You have to make these decisions in this. Snap decisions, whether it's right or wrong. And it feels like, hey, why not go out for some drinks? You know, Lizzo says and does all this stuff on stage. And it sounds like, based on the complaints that this is sort of the kind of behavior that I'm not necessarily shocked when it comes to like the banana and like sort of all that stuff. I don't know about the threats or the things that she said to these people, but it just, it's so messy. And it's unfortunate that what we're gonna do is potentially that the only thing that would be changed in this situation is only Lizzo's alleged behavior, but not the system that puts these people. Lizzo is a worker. Lizzo is a worker. She's not like a ce. A billion dollar CEO. You know what I mean? I know I'm getting ready to go into something.

[C]

The system that allows Lizzo to be famous and popular. Like, we should be blaming that system like, like, like how she was able to have success for.

[D]

It's not her fame and popularity. It's. It's what, it's what is she's encouraged to do. Just in general, I'm saying, I'm saying we have no problem with. Like, if that was on a reality show, we would be. Lizzo, suck that banana and threaten them. Dancers. That's right. Like, we really celebrate this sort of behavior. I'm not saying that Lizzo's behaving in a wild way. I'm saying that the entertainment industry, the music industry, some people who have experience in it describe it as sort of the wild, wild west. Not just, you know, not which means the entire thing. It's also, it's the exploitation of these artists that put them out there on the road. Artists, the dancers. Artists, the main singer, the musicians and all these, all this other talent put them out there on the road and they are in a situation where that's where they're going to earn their money is on the road because they're not earning it from the record sales. Lizzo, you know what I mean?

[C]

Screaming fucked us all.

[D]

Yeah, it's. Yeah. And it's about to do it again anyway. I could go down a million places. I do. Obviously we need to wait and see what happens. I, you know, I think it's all going to come out in the wash. It's a tricky situation because until there's a complaint, nobody's saying anything. Do you know What? I mean, until there's a complaint, it's all gravy, you know, it's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt.

[C]

Crazy.

[B]

All shits and giggles. Someone giggles and shits. You know, I think that. Have you ever heard that question?

[D]

I've never heard someone giggling all shits

[B]

and giggles to someone. Giggles and shits.

[C]

Bob often giggles and shits on this podcast.

[B]

Like, ew. Yeah. You know, incontinence is the problem that some people have. And I love you for it. You know, just a little. What do you think, Bob?

[C]

I'm curious.

[B]

A little giggle. Little. That's a big deal. I think that. Okay, there's a lot of things. First of all, I'm really intrigued by the notion that, like, a lot of people take away from this is like, I knew I never liked that fat anyway. I mean, the way out of the.

[D]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

This reaction out of the gate, it was like accusations. The. That fat. I never, like, I knew. I knew it was something in my spirit told me as soon as that fat got on my tv. It was something about her. I didn't like it. And I'm glad I knew. You know what I mean? I think that what the dancer's saying is probably not 100% false, but I think it's probably also not 100%, because there are moments where you hear them say things like, I had a feeling like the guy would be like, so did Lizzo fat shame you? And then she'll be like, I just had a feeling that they were not happy with the way that I was gaining weight. I just had a feeling. And I was like, well, you can't prove feelings in court that that's how they felt. Even. Even if they. Even if they showed. Even if they showed really strong, you can't prove how people feel in court.

[C]

Judy's so good at that. She's like, no, no, no, don't tell me. Don't tell me how he felt. Don't.

[D]

How.

[C]

Like you, kid. You can't prove it. You cannot prove that.

[B]

Which, by the way, just Judy is still the highest paid person in reality television to this very day.

[C]

Which came back again.

[B]

Yeah, she got a new show. Yeah, she's wild.

[C]

Anyway, continue.

[B]

And I think that if anyone makes allegations, you should take the allegations seriously and you should seriously investigate them. And when I say seriously investigate them, I don't mean us as citizens. I mean paid lawyers. I mean lawyers and investigators. People who are not just random podcasters and hairstylists and even Other dancers. You know what I mean? Of course you can look into it. Feel free. But I don't think we're close enough to the source of material to say whether or not these things happen or did not happen.

[D]

We can always seem like what's going to. What's going to be the deciding factor. It seems like we put more weight in the court of public opinion opinion than we do in what.

[B]

What.

[D]

Like we are going to figure out as a. As a community and as people who follow Lizzo and follow her career. We're going to make that decision real soon on whether she. Whether or not she does another tour getting canceled.

[B]

And.

[D]

And they haven't even gone to court yet.

[C]

This is like Jonathan Majors. Jonathan Majors.

[D]

He's.

[C]

He's literally in court now. As soon as it came out that he may have hit someone, he lost. So he lost, like, eight different brand deals. Like, there was, like, there was nothing proven. Like, he lost so much already, you

[D]

know, and now that's what I meant to say is the capitalism of it all. Just like we can liken it to the LGBTQ community and what we saw. The. The corporations, Bud Light of the targets, stepping back from the community. They're all up in your face. They're all up in your face. Nobody had nothing to say. And then the minute something might seem a little bit off and not, you know, I'm not saying any of these Bud Light or Dylan Mulvaney did anything off. I'm saying that, like, the minute there's a little bit of friction, they're out, we're out. Peace out. No backing, no. No support. Not even, like, you know, like real kind of floundery. And we are in a situation. We're in a system. We're in a country, a world, a system, whatever you want to say, that allows that sort of behavior from these corporations to put people out there, parade them. This is who we have on their can. This is who's out on tour. Oh, you like big girls. Well, we got it. We got the tour, we have the music. We got this TV series of the big girls. What you want, big girl? What you want, big girl? We're going to sell it to you. And the minute something happens and, oh, you like big girls wilding out. You want dancer. Big girls wilding out. Here's the TV show. Oh, shoot, somebody. And then suddenly it's what Bob was saying. I hated that bitch. And I just think that that is busted. Sorry, I didn't mean to steal. Go, go.

[B]

You know, you're right. That Is the. My thesis, essentially. And I think that that is a little bit. Not a little bit. I think that it's quite problematic. And the issue is, like, I can't remember the band. There was some band that was like. That was like, getting a lot of popularity and.

[D]

Power Bottom. Yes.

[B]

Now, I want to be clear.

[C]

I do.

[B]

They were called Power Bottom. Yes. I do not know all the details. I want to say out loud right now. I do not know all the details on the Power Bottom story, but someone from Power Bottom was accused of allegations. And then later on the person. I believe the person was like that. That's not quite what happened. It's not quite how I said it. But by that time, Power Bottom had lost. I mean, everything. Even their music, I think, was pulled from Spotify.

[C]

Oh, wait, so this is like.

[B]

It was. This was quite recent.

[C]

It wasn't heard of the Power Bottom. I don't know who that is.

[B]

Power brother.

[C]

This was two. It was like.

[B]

It was.

[D]

This was 2017.

[B]

They were. They were. They were a queer band and they were like, getting a lot of.

[C]

A lot of.

[D]

What was the allegation? Was it a sexual allegation?

[B]

It was. Yeah. It was there. Yeah. There were sexual allegations against who?

[D]

Like a member or a member of Power Bottom.

[B]

Yes. And by.

[D]

It was a duo is two people. And one of them had allegations against.

[C]

Got it.

[D]

And one. One of them had an allegation against the other person.

[B]

No, against that person. Someone who was not in the band.

[D]

Had allegations. A fan of the band put out allegations against one of the members.

[B]

And by the time it had all settled out of court, I believe. And again, I know y' all gonna say Bob Monet never know all the details. You're right. We. We don't know all the details about everything. Before we talk.

[D]

You.

[B]

You got me. You got me. Hands up. But by the time all the dust had cleared that the damage was done and Power Bottom is no more.

[C]

Well, and then this is. That's the interesting thing. An interesting thing you say. Because I saw another point of view. This other lawyer was saying, you know, she's. She's noticing a pattern as a lawyer saying that there are oftentimes allegations, like lawyers will pick up certain cases from a disgruntled fan or an old employee because they know that if they bring this case to the court of public opinion, the artist is more afraid of how that's gonna affect their career. So they will most likely settle. And so they kind of guaranteed this. And again, I'm not saying all lawyers do this. The lawyer just saying that she's noticing a pattern that artists will sometimes, they're so afraid to be canceled and have their entire career impacted that they will settle out of court, which oftentimes, to us, as the public looks as guilty. When you hear, oh, they settled out of court, you're like, oh, they were guilty, so they settled. So they'll pay that deal. They'll pay that $5 million or whatever it is, so it just go away so they don't get like a guilty or whatever, or it doesn't go through litigation so that they can move on. And sometimes lawyers know that artists will do this, so they bring these cases. And again, y', all, I'm not saying this is what these people are doing with Lizzo. This is what this lawyer was noticing, a pattern in certain cases coming forward and lawyers and lawyers picking them up to kind of just get money quick.

[B]

There's a reason why lawyers do not have a great reputation in the world. Like, there's a reason why lawyers are not considered. I mean, I think there are two professions in the three professions in the world that kind of have a big stain on them. Used car sellers, politicians, and lawyers. And if you're in one of these categories, people are like, I am just positive that you were either lying to me or trying to manipulate me in some way. If you work. If I'm working with you in a professional capacity.

[D]

When it comes to these corporations, and when we talk about, we think about all the millions of songs and lots of music and lots of pieces of media and lots of artists, but really, when it comes down to it, and the music industry is really controlled by just a handful of human beings at the very, very, very, very, very top end of the day, just like all the corporations that we have the opportunity to buy all this stuff or listen to all these streaming platforms and all this, if it all goes, a lot of it gets funneled literally to the same few people. Like, the higher up you go, the less people there are. And so I guess I want to clarify, kind of just based on what you had just said, Monet, is that, like, it seems as though everyone is very reactionary, and it is important that people's reactions reflect sort of their own values, I think. But it seems as though folks are more reactionary only to avoid a cancellation moment rather than to really, really avoid the harm and irreparable effects of somebody. Like, they would rather avoid the cancellation. Sometimes those two things match up, sometimes those two things don't. And the cancellation moves the Moment of cancellation moves much quicker and people aren't like.

[B]

Because the court of public opinion doesn't need, doesn't need proof or facts or anything. It just needs sensationalism.

[C]

Yeah. That's all it needs. And you know, and to be an artist who spent so much time, right, building your career for, for, for years, decades, whatever it is, to know that it can all go away because of an allegation that you know, like, is not true. You're like, well, this is like, I didn't do this. This is not true. And within like a 48 hour news cycle, bitch, you're done. Your next tour, no one's buying tickets. Like, you like, it's like a scary place to be in. So I can see how an artist would just settle and just like, you know, I just want to get this over with and just pay the money so it can go away so I can move on from my life. I can see how like a public

[D]

opinion settling is an admission of guilt.

[C]

Is guilty. Right.

[B]

This reminds me of the. Oh my God. If this were a Black Mirror episode. The one. Are y' all Black Mirror fans like me?

[C]

I've seen a couple.

[D]

No, but I've watched, I've watched all of it. I've watched the pig one and I stopped watching.

[B]

No, I'm not a fan. But I've watched every episode. You're like, I'm not. I've watched every second of every sep. But I'm not a fan.

[D]

I watched the first episode, which I think the pig one was episode one, Season one, I think.

[C]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

[D]

And I watched it and then that. When did that come out? In 2017, 18, something like that. 18, 19, maybe.

[C]

Whatever.

[B]

Pre ponder replay.

[D]

Yeah, I never, I stopped. I was like so mortified and I was like, I feel violated. I can't watch this. So I didn't watch it. And then in the light of the strike, the sag, AFTRA and WGA strike, I decided to watch this show that I was talking about, a Black Mirror episode, Joan is awful. So I watched that, which, no spoilers, but it was last season. Those of you who didn't watch. It's basically about.

[B]

No, it's this current.

[C]

No, it's the most recent season happening right now.

[B]

It's the most recent season.

[D]

It's all out now. I guess my point.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And yeah, like two months ago. It didn't come out that long. It came for like two months.

[D]

Oh, really? Oh, it feel, it felt like. Well, this is my confusion because I watched it. I Watched it and then, you know, like, Netflix.

[B]

Anyway, spoiler alert. You all know what? If you haven't seen it yet, you have time to log off because Pep's gonna talk about her opinions on Jonah's Awful, which is for the most recent season. Oh, you. I mean, I think once you give a spoiler alert, you can say anything, in my opinion.

[D]

I said no spoiler, didn't I? Whatever. I don't know what I said.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Anyway, go ahead.

[D]

I won't. I don't need to tell it, but it lines up closely with what we're talking about.

[C]

I don't know what's going on.

[D]

I ended up accidentally watching it. I watched that episode, and then I was like, ooh, this is good. Are there more episodes like this? And I watched the whole season, and I was working with my hands and doing some hair stuff. And then before you know it, Netflix was like, oh, you like that? Let's go back and watch all of them. And so, like, I ended up accidentally watching, and I couldn't tell where the sixth season was or not. It wasn't a clear marker.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't you hate when you accidentally watch four seasons of a show? Don't you hate when you sit down and you accidentally watch. Watch four seasons of.

[D]

I meant to boycott it because of the pig, but I watched the whole

[B]

accidentally watch 18 hours of tele.

[D]

What does that have to do with Black Mirror?

[B]

Yeah, so there's an. There's an episode of Black Mirror where. Where there are these. These bees that just are, like, attacking people, like, specific people. So there. There are these bees that attack very specific people, but they found out that with the. Out the. The bees were these mechanical bees that were connected to the algorithm. So whoever is the most hated person on the Internet gets killed by the bees dragging Beyonce. I gave spoiler alerts Monae, and then you asked me, what do I do?

[C]

Bitch, I'm in the thing.

[B]

What I'm gonna do? Well, you. You asked me to tell you. You said, tell me a lot of this.

[D]

Relate every single Black Mirror episode you've watched, somebody said, you got to watch the gay episode, the lesbian episode where this happened, and you have to. Is that black?

[B]

Yeah. And. And the thing. Oh, no, that's. That's. That's. That's the zombie. The herbal zombie movie.

[D]

No, no. Black Mirror has a really famous lesbian episode, and they have a gay one too. Episode. It's a lesbian episode.

[B]

Also, Herbal Zombie was a great. Herbal Zombie was a great.

[D]

I don't like herbal zombies. I Don't like herbal zombies.

[B]

I ate with herbal zombies. That was like herbal zombies.

[D]

No.

[B]

Anyway, the show was tired, but what happens is. What happens is the bees use the algorithm anyway. Lizzo would be stung to death. That was my whole thesis. But now that I got that out of the way, I want to talk directly to Shonda Rhimes and Ryan Murphy. Everyone, tag Shonda Rhimes and Ryan Murphy because I want to say this.

[D]

Hold on, Bob. I don't think that's a good idea.

[B]

You don't know what I'm going to say. Let me say it first. Son of rhymes. Ryan Murphy. We are not done hearing trans stories. Pose wasn't enough. I was so happy to see Peppermint on my screen. For Pose, it was Peppermint. And the lady who was on your episode, what was her name? The cleaner. These two need a whole show. This was one of the best fucking. It was the best episode of the show. It was handsound. And not just because Pep is one of my best friends. This is total side note. This. This was the best episode of Pose. And I'm proposing that we get those two after the strike to have a spin off where they are the main characters. Thank you for my TED Talk.

[C]

I was so confused. I thought. I thought we were still on Black Mirror.

[B]

Well, we were talking about tv. We've jumped, We've moved.

[D]

I think we need to. I think we need to move on from tv. I don't think we can use a lot of this.

[B]

I mean, I'm not scabbing. I'm not. I'm not saying go watch. Listen, me, Pep and Monet are all union strong. We are down there. We're not. We're not Me, Pep and money. We're not doing films we're not writing. We are all quite union strong.

[C]

Which, by the way, can you see.

[B]

Also, you're allowed to review. Also, SAG allows you to review shows. By the way, if you're. If you're a content creator who reviews tv, even if it's SAG content, you can still review it.

[C]

You're allowed to do that and Dale and wanna be us so bad. You see them, they were. They were at the same place we were protesting and they were processing just like it. They wanna be us so bad. They wanna be us so bad. At the Paramount Studios in Hollywood, by

[B]

the way, if you're gonna. If you're gonna strike, the best place to strike just for, like, your own vibe is Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers is a much better. First of all, the walk is when you walk it. When you strike at Paramount, it's a really small. You're like loopy. You get dizzy, baby. That Warner Brothers strike, you walk about, I would say a quarter mile.

[D]

You get your steps in.

[B]

Yeah, it's one.

[C]

It's One Direction, Netflix and Sun, the Sunset and Bronson. I think that Netflix one is long. So you can look with that. That is a Trek.

[B]

Also, for the first time ever, when you're driving. This is so Hollywood when you're driving. I don't even know what the street is. I think it's toward. Toward Burbank, past Warner Brothers. There is this huge ad wall, but the ad wall is empty right now. Is this like a. Is this. Are they like, with the union? Are they with us? Are they like. We're with you guys.

[D]

You can do commercials.

[B]

But this. This wall. I've never seen this wall empty. It was kind of. It was kind of gaggy when I was marching, I was like, oh, that wall. I've never seen that wall.

[D]

Well, it depends on. I guess it depends on who's. Who's in control of the ad wall.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know, they're probably not. I don't think if you're selling ad space, you're probably not in these streets being like, I'm, you know, I had

[C]

a little bit of a to go. To go strike in full drag. I literally thought about it for literally.2 seconds. I was like, absolutely not. I think also there's no. I'm not helping our cause by going out and driving.

[D]

No, it doesn't. It's. That's just like. Of that sensation, you know, you might help.

[B]

You might help if. If it brings eyes. Like, if you go down to the strike. I don't know how strikes are in. In la. The strikes are. They are like the people out there, they're like, listening to music. Some of them are dressed wild. If, in my opinion, if it brings attention to the strike, then it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. I. I said I saw like, me. Monet saw. I saw instathot, shirtless. You remember that Monet, like that guy who was like, shirtless, like, posing, and then he put his shirt back on and started walking again. If it brings. If it brings attention to the strike, then I think that the strike is very serious. I think people are very serious about one of these wages.

[D]

I wish I sent this to you all to watch, but did you hear. Could get murky here. Did you hear about speaking of the strike and speaking about unionizing? Did you hear about housewives, Bethenny Frankel bringing suit on behalf of unscripted reality performers and talent on reality shows. And in conjunction with. I'm not sure if y' all watched Netflix shows. Love is Blind and the Ultimatum, but there's performers from that show who basically are beginning to organize. And they created a. Ucan. Ucan. Ucan. Unscripted, whatever. It's like having to do with unscripted and reality talent. People that have appeared on reality tv, and right now they're in this, like, sort of story collecting phase where they're talking to all of the artists and all the people who've appeared on the various shows about their experiences. And so many of these people's experiences all align. I don't care what show you've been on. A lot of us have the same types of stories and experiences. You know, you're hearing a common thread. And so I can send you the video. It is. It is wild. There's.

[B]

There's unscripted cast advocacy network.

[D]

Yeah. And they. They obviously are. This is the beginning of organization and them unionizing. And it is. It is. The allegations that they're bringing against the producers of Love is Blind. Love is Blind are wild. He tells this one story, and it lines up if you watched the series. He tells this one story about how his fiance, the person that he, you know, proposed to, was like, sick and heaving and throwing up, and they thought she could have had Covid because they filmed it during the pandemic. And the producers said, we have to test you, and we can't film you for 24 hours. So, like, they couldn't film her. She had to be out of the filming. They were having a gathering. And that night, it was a coincidence, they were having a gathering where they're doing something and she missed it because she was sick. And so her partner, her fiance, went to the gathering and then said, oh, she's sick. She can't come. And then they stopped him and said, go back into that room. She's sick. We can't film her. Wink, wink. But if you go and bring her and sit her by the window by the bed and then lean in because you have a microphone, then we can capture her. And he didn't know that she had been sick and been. She had a panic attack while he was at the party. So then they brought her in and said, just talk to her about the party. And he is supposed to be her husband. And he was, like, ignoring all the stuff that she said about a panic attack because he didn't know that she had had that. Meanwhile talking to her about the party. And he finally put two and two together and was like, I took off the mic and was like, I'm done. We're not filming. But he like, it shows that the incentive to talk about this scripted, unscripted moment sort of being prioritized over the health and safety of someone. Not to mention, they said, we tested you, but we have to wait 24 hours because you still could have Covid. So why are you sending somebody in there that you know is not sick but could get Covid by sending them in there? It just feels like unscrupulous.

[B]

If you want to listen to a. One of my favorite podcasts I've ever listened to, it's called Harsh Reality. It is. Trace Lysette is the host of this podcast. And there was a reality TV show years ago called There's Something about Miriam and There's Something about Miriam was a gotcha style dating show where you have this.

[D]

It was like the Bachelor.

[B]

It's a. Yes, like the Bachelor, the Bachelorette, basically. Except in the end they go, gotcha. Miriam is trans. And they did not use the words Miriam is trans. They, they, they essentially had her say, I'm. I'm a man. They sent out her. I can't remember. I'm not. They either had to say, I'm not a real woman or I'm a man or something like that, which I don't know if. I don't know. I don't know if Miriam chose those words, those words herself. Miriam is no longer with us to, to discuss that. Obviously not. Obviously some of y' all don't even know about this. But what I'm saying is it is, it is about a, a gotcha style reality TV show where they, where they get a bunch of CIS men to date a trans woman. Yes. Straight CIS men to date a trans woman without disclosing that she's trans until the very last person. And the wild social ramifications that have come into play after. It's. It's a great listen. There's. It's not too many episodes. It is. I, it's one of the most. I think they're. They're six episodes. I lied. There are.

[D]

Of Harsh Reality. Like this was eight.

[B]

Yeah. Harsh reality. Yeah.

[C]

Interesting. There's something about Miriam. I don't, I don't even remember that being.

[D]

Yeah, it came out in the early 2000s, same thing. It was obviously after the Bachelor had become wildly popular and they did the same thing. There was An American version on Logo with Calpurnia Adams. I can't remember what it was called. It was the same exact thing where these guys had to, like, vie for. It was the Bachelorette. Basically vie for her attention, take her on dates. She chose a couple people and then once. Then she chose the person and they, they. Then they were offered either at the very last moment when they proposed to her, before she could say yes, she had to say something like she had to come out. I don't remember exactly how the rules work, but she come out. Or they could take the money. You could take the money. And that means you're telling me no, because you don't like trans women. Or if you get with the trans woman, you have to leave the money. Like it's that much of a choice. And, and. But they didn't know that she was trans the whole time. And then at the end she did. And I believe. But that show, one of the guys committed suicide because he was on a TV show he'd already signed. Of course they get you to sign everything away, not knowing. You know what I mean? And so, you know, it was like. It was just like, obviously really upsetting. And the two shows that had a dating style situation where a trans woman was at the center and the star of them ended up having death and murder involved. And, you know, because they tricked these guys into watching the show. I'm not saying that the trans women tricked them. You know, the trans women were not

[C]

the premise of the show.

[D]

That was the entire premise to keep it a secret. Right. And it was a different time. And that's obviously something that we would never do today. I think it was something that was not really a good idea, clearly a not good idea to do then. But it just goes to show you that the producers of these TV shows will oftentimes prioritize getting the TV show, getting the story on camera, rather than what. Regardless of what happens, we'll take care of it at the end. And they do hire a psychologist, allegedly, to have one that you can talk to afterwards if you're having problem. But so many people have committed suicide after these reality, you know, and harm themselves after these appearances on reality TV because they've been tricked into it. And the conditions that you're in, you don't have community, you don't have access to a phone. A lot of the times you're sequestered, they don't feed you on a normal schedule because you're working 16 hours, because you're not union, even though the crew is they don't give you access to water, give you access to alcohol.

[C]

That's the crazy thing to me that I'm happy that this UCAN that unscripted is starting to get together and unionize. But that's always been crazy.

[B]

Would have been nice eight years ago.

[C]

I know crazy to me how you can. How the entire crew, everyone is union except the players who are being captured on film. Like, I feel like hopefully something this A clause will be part of this union is once you sign on to do a reality show that is union, you automatically are put into the union because you are not part of this ecosystem.

[B]

Yeah, we all need to be unionized. So do the CEOs. Someone needs to make sure these CEOs protected. I'm kidding. I'm joking. I'm kidding. That was a bit. That was a.

[C]

It was.

[B]

It.

[C]

It wasn't y'.

[B]

All.

[C]

That was a Freudian slip. That. That's what Bob really think. Y' all saw a peek into the real Bob the fucking Drag Queen.

[B]

Okay, yeah, yeah, Bob the drag queen, the 1%. But what I'm also trying to say too is me and Peppermint were right after I listened to Harsh Reality. I always call Pep with a hare brain scheme. Either Pep or Monet is gonna get a call and be like, I got my next big plan.

[C]

I have to say something like this. Like, Monet, I had this idea. Hear me out, Pep.

[B]

Listen, hear me out. And I really want to see the dating show where it is a black trans woman. It's disclosed up front, and it is a bunch of men vying for her love. And they know she's trans. That's the reality show I want to see where it's not like, I gotcha. It's just like, yeah, yeah, she's trans. And, you know, and me and Pep were talking about, you know, I don't know if the term trans attracted or trans amorous is kosher right now. I don't know which term people are using, but I mean, I think it's interesting to see love for trans people and affection and desire. I mean, I'm someone who's attracted to trans people. And I mean, as Pep put it, I have a little space at the table for everybody.

[C]

I have a question. If there was like, because for some reason of all these fucking reality shows, like Bachelorette, Love island, all these things, the ones that seem to stand the test of time, because I follow a lot of them and they're still married, is still the thing. Love is blind. These people seem to really be finding love in the show. All the other ones, it seems like people are just out here to try to get famous.

[D]

Famous. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Love is blind.

[D]

There are some people from Love is Blind that Netflix did have a show. It's really interesting to see sort of them after the show at the reunions and all these things. I agree. I think I don't love a lot of dating reality shows, but there's two that I can get. There's three that I. That I can.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

There's four.

[B]

Okay. There's 12.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

There's 18. Okay.

[D]

Every one of them except one. There's like 70 that you can choose from.

[C]

I.

[D]

In order my favorites.

[C]

Are.

[D]

Are you the one which is old. Old school. Old school. Which. They are either one. The ultimatum, Love is blind, and. Oh, there's one more. When I can't. When I don't get those three, A distant fourth is too hot to handle. And the reason why I like those shows is because they, in their own way, incentivize the. Cultivating an actual connection with people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, are you two insinuating that shot at love with Tila Tequila is not.

[D]

I was just showing that show that

[B]

harbors, you know, there's a new Tila Tequila out there. There's a new bisexual dating show on the. On the scene right now, which is so funny. I'm like, girl, it's 2023. Like, we got. Like, I can't. It's like this woman, she's like. You'd think being bisexual, I'd have all the dating options. I can't remember the name of it, but. But I was like, Like, y'.

[D]

All.

[B]

Like, it's 2023. Like, like, are we. Are we still in these streets acting like. Like, you know, I don't know.

[C]

I would love to see

[D]

bi curious dating. It's called love always.

[B]

There it is.

[C]

I would love to see a queer trans. Love is blind. I would. I would. Personally, I would fucking love. I mean, I know.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Let's get it. They did do an. Are you the one? Do you all know? Are you the one?

[C]

I never seen that.

[D]

It's an MTV reality dating show. And apparently they were. They were probably really in their heyday, like, early 20. Like 2010. 20. Probably 2013, 14, 15. They took a break, and then they came back during the pandemic with queer. Are you the one? That was season eight. And then they came, and then. Then they continued, and basically it's. They. They get a bunch of people together, they go through, and they do Matchmaking. So they get everybody's profile and they match make everyone. They match people up according to their likes and preferences and all those things by a professional matchmaker. And then they scramble them up. Nobody knows who their match is. They scramble them up and dump them on an island and say, find your match. And if you.

[B]

Why the island? Can I be in a hotel?

[D]

I know why it's always got to

[B]

be in the sun. Like we took these loves and put them in a volcano.

[D]

Because. Because they need an excuse. They need excuse to have people in bathing suits while you're waiting to figure out who's going to win.

[C]

Yeah, because other people like to be luxuriating in the sand and the beach. You're the only one that don't like the beach and the sand. Everybody else like the beach and the sand.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, we took five hot locals and threw them in the middle of the Mojave Desert. It's like, come on.

[D]

You know? But I guess any other. It's the only conditions that you can have people practically naked the whole time. You know what I mean?

[B]

You're right. You're not wrong.

[D]

That's it. It'd be funny to have them in bathing suits but in like Antarctica, you know what I mean?

[B]

In New York City in February.

[D]

Find love. Find love. You're not, you're not focused on love anyway.

[B]

That is a challenge. Hang out in a bathing suit on 23rd night for five hours.

[D]

They incentivize finding your match. And if you match with the wrong person, the entire group loses money. There's a million dollars that the group. No one gets eliminated. All you have to do, it's a million dollars and all 10 people split it. But only if you're matched with your, with your pre assigned partner and people get connections with the people. They fall into their old ways. They have a type that they're looking for. They have a list. And so a lot of times they make the wrong choices and their match is somebody else. That maybe would be a good idea for them or whatever, but they have to find that person. And every single time that they get asked, is this your match? And if they bring up the wrong person, then they lose money. They lose money.

[B]

You know, we do have, we do have to wrap up soon. But if we're out here, who's that recommending reality shows? The. The one that was it. It is a real mind of a show. It's called lol. Last one laughing. They have one for Canada, one for Australia, one for Mexico. They put comedians in a room. And you're not allowed to laugh. You're not allowed to laugh and do things. I mean, the community are trying to get each other to laugh. And the one for Canada is by the end, you feel so crazy just watching the show and they're dating. There's no dating. It's just the whole. And they're in a volcano. We've taken 15 comedians, throw them into bikinis, put them into

[A]

my brain.

[C]

Maybe my brain is crazy today. I just feel like we're talking about so many different topics. I don't understand.

[B]

And that's why Lizzo should be in prison. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. All right, thank you all for listening to our podcast.

[D]

Bye.

[E]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L, I B S Y N ads.com today.