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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see what you can save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.
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B
Buying a car in Carvana was so easy. I was able to finance it through them. I just.
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A
Whoa, wait. You mean finance?
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B
Yeah, finance.
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A
Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto.
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B
Loan, entered my terms and shop from.
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A
Thousands of great car options all within my budget. That's cool. But financing through Carvana was so easy.
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B
Financed, done.
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A
And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow.
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B
Financed, right?
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A
That's what they said. You can spend time trying to pronounce financing or you can actually finance and buy your car. Today on Carvana financing. Subject to credit approval, additional terms and conditions may apply.
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B
Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two. Seriously, it's 15 dol a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it. Are you. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try.
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A
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B
On a quiet hillside in Brazil, two bodies lie side by side, dressed ne as though prepared for a ceremony. But their eyes are covered by masks cut from lead. And beside them sit strange instructions no one can explain. Was it ritual, Experiment? Or something far stranger? Something that came not from this world, but from beyond it. Welcome to Sightings, the series that takes you inside the world's most mysterious supernatural events. Each episode brings you a thrilling story that puts you at the center of the action. Followed by a discussion that dives into the accounts that inspired the story and our takes on them. I'm McLeod.
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A
And I'm Brian. And we have got one heck of a mystery coming at you today.
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B
You know, I love a good mystery.
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A
Well, this one reads almost like a true crime story, but with a crazy supernatural twist. And I cannot wait for all of you to hear it.
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B
So join us as we investigate the lead masks mystery that rocked Brazil over 50 years ago. Will we get to the bottom of the case? Find out on this episode of Sightings. All right, fine. These machines always make me feel like I'm giving a statement under oath. Which, for the record, I am not. This is for internal use. The captain said so. But between you and me, I wouldn't be talking into this thing if I had a choice. I don't like the sound of my own voice. And I don't like making something that can be picked apart later. Then again, I also don't like the idea of someone else telling my story for me. And no matter what, this one's going to get told one way or another. So. This is Inspector Carlos Mendez, Rio de Janeiro State Police. It's September 2, 1966. Almost two weeks since everything began on Vindhem Hill. Saturday afternoon, kid named Georges was up on Vindame Hill flying a kite. Beautiful day, apparently. And he's running around, having a good time. When he nearly trips over something in a depression in the grass. Two bodies just lying there. He didn't check for a pulse. He just ran all the way down the hill, yelling for his parents and, by extension, me. So I drove out to Niteroi, and by the time I got there, it was starting to get dark. That hill was not an easy climb. There's thornbrush, loose rock, no lighting, and more than a few places to twist an ankle. But then I finally made it up there, and what I found just didn't make any sense. The two men were laid out peacefully, side by side, backs on the ground, dressed in their Sunday best good suits. Both of them with matching brand new raincoats. It was like they just laid down for a nap or to watch the clouds and never got up. But here's where it gets strange. And I mean strange, even for real. Both men had these masks over their eyes. Not carnival masks or party masks or cheap shop masks. These were cut rough from lead sheets. Maybe the size of sunglasses, but solid metal. No eye holes, no way to see through them. Just crude pieces of lead placed over their eyes. There was an empty water bottle and a plastic bag with two damp towels. Plus a notebook, but I'll get to that later. At the time, I remember thinking this didn't look like a robbery. They still had money in their pockets. Not much, but still. Their watches were still on their wrists. No sign of violence, no blood, no bullet holes. Just pristine bodies and toes. Masks. And aside from the masks being outright strange, there was an unsettling stillness to the whole site. We later determined the bodies had been out there at least three days. But not a single animal had touched them. And that hill crawling with wildlife. But even the vultures wouldn't go near them. You tell me what that means, because I sure don't know. We identified them pretty quick. Manuel, 32, and Miguel, 34. Both electronics technicians from Campos dos Cotacaz, about 175 miles northeast. Both were married, had good reputations and ran a little TV repair business together. But that's not all. Of course not. That notebook I mentioned, that's where things got really interesting. It was a small waterproof thing, full of handwritten notes, electrical diagrams, things like that. But on one page, the last page, there were these instructions. That's the only word I can think of for them. But they did make a bit of sense. Let's see. I have the exact language somewhere here. 1630, be at the determined location. 1830 swallow capsules. After the effect protect metals. Wait for mask signal. Right. It's absolutely bizarre. So we bagged everything. The clothes, the bottle, the towels, the masks, the notebook. I made a note to have all of it checked for prints. But I already knew the weather might have washed those away. By the time we carried the bodies down, the press had gathered, asking questions I couldn't answer yet. Vultures. The next day, I started trying to piece together their movements according to their families. Miguel and Manuel left home Wednesday morning. August. Let me see here. August 17th. That was three days before they were found. And they told their family they were going to Sao Paulo to buy equipment and look at a used car. They pulled a substantial sum of cash from their business account before they left. Not a fortune, but enough to raise eyebrows. Their friend Elcio Gomez drove them to the bus station. He says they insisted he just dropped them off outside. They wouldn't let him see them off. That struck him as odd. Me too, Elsio. But he didn't think much of it at the time. But you know what's indisputably odd? Miguel and Manuel didn't go to Sao Paulo at all. Instead, they took a bus to Niteroi, some 200 miles in the other direction. So why lie? And why come here? Reconstructing all of their movements, talking to witnesses. It all took time, of course. But I gathered that the bus from Campos would have arrived around 2:30pm on the 17th. First stop, an electronics shop. The owner said they looked around but didn't buy anything. They didn't even talk to him. Actually, it's the only equipment store they went to. Which got me thinking. Why take a five hour bus ride to browse in a shop but leave empty handed? Next, it started raining, so they ducked into a clothing store to buy matching raincoats. The clerk remembered them because they were so rushed. That, and the fact that they didn't put the coats on before running back out into the downpour. They next showed up at this bar down the street. Miguel ordered a bottle of mineral water, and the bartender said he was acting real nervous, like checking his watch, eyeing the door. But he paid for the water and kept the receipt for the bottle, you know, for the deposit return. Which leads me to believe that whatever else they had planned, they figured it wouldn't take long and he'd have time to return the bottle. But here's another thing. Nobody saw them leave the bar. It's like one minute they're there, the next they're gone. But at 5pm a witness saw them getting out of a jeep at the foot of Vintame Hill. The driver was blonde, and there were two other men in the jeep, but that's all they could remember. Which means three unknown men were the last to see Miguel and Manuel alive. And we have absolutely no idea who they were. So those are the facts. Or lack thereof. Oh, the coroner couldn't tell us how they died. The decomposition made it impossible, so we didn't get toxicology. Which means if they were poisoned or something, we'd be none the wiser. But those masks. Those masks kept bothering me. They seemed so pointless. Pure lead. Why? And that got me digging, you know, doing my thing. And you know what I found? Four years ago, another electronics technician was found dead on another hill outside the city. And guess what he was wearing? You got it. One case. Maybe it's just some nut job, but two cases, all electronics technicians four years apart, all with lead masks. There's clearly something bigger going on here, something else that connects these deaths, but I don't know. I don't even know what to think. Those men in the jeep, they know, but. Ah, damn. All right, I'm stopping the tape. I need to make some calls. Because if I don't figure this out soon. Well.
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A
Well, I was down on my last dollar.
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B
Then I started saving because the bank.
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A
Said fiscal restraint is what you're craving.
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B
So I put my earnings in a.
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A
High yield account, let the savings compound.
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B
And the interest mount.
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A
I'm optimizing cash flow, putting debt in check. Now, time is, my friend and not.
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B
A pain in the neck. And we've got a little cash to rebuild the old deck. Boring money moves make kind of lame songs, but they sound pretty sweet to your wallet. PNC bank, brilliantly boring since 1865.
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A
Disney's Lilo and Stitch has finally landed on Disney. Now you can watch the global phenomenon at home with your ohana.
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B
Be good for one second. You're the devil.
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A
Lilo and Stitch is verified hot on Rotten Tomatoes with an audience score of 93%. Perfect stitch, also cute and fluffy.
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B
Disney's Lilo and Stitch rated BJ now stick streaming on Disney. And right now, you can get Disney.
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A
Hulu, and all of ESPN with an.
- [12:29]
B
Incredible limited time offer. Terms apply. Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of. You do. So ask yourself, can you or can't you? Can you load up a Ford F150 and build your dream with sweat and steel? Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang? Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends? An adventure begins. Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right. Ready? Set. Forward. Okay. It's been a week since I last sat here with this damn machine, and things have changed. First thing Monday morning, two federal agents showed up at the station, asked polite questions, and I told them exactly what was in the file and nothing else. They smiled the way men do when they know you're lying. But, hey, I was like, look, it was right here. It's in the file. Then yesterday, my captain pulls me aside and says it's maybe time to wrap this case up. Says the word from upstairs is to mark it accidental and close it out. Okay, I can take a hint. But I'm not giving up, not when I'm this deep in. So I've been digging quietly, and the first place I dug was backward to that 62 case. I managed to get a hold of the old file. Another electronics technician, also found dead on a hill outside town, lying on his back with a crude lead mask over his eyes. No injuries, no sign of robbery. Cause of death undetermined. Looks like there wasn't much of an investigation. Witnesses said he'd been taking special pills to pick up radio and TV signals with his mind. The police wrote him off as a crank and closed the file. And I don't know, maybe I'd have done the same, but there's too much going on here. Some kind of belief system, something more, you know? Oh, and I should mention that a call came in from Campos, Miguel's niece. She said, Sweet girl, maybe 25, but she said she'd run into Miguel and Manuel at the bus depot that Wednesday morning. And Miguel told her that car and electronics shopping Wasn't the reason for the trip. He said there was another purpose, a secret purpose. And he said that when he got back, he'd let her know if he believed in spiritism. Spiritism, not spiritualism. Specific word, specific meaning. So after I gathered all this, I went back to Campos and searched Miguel's house again. And this time I knew what I was looking for. Tucked away between a stack of repair manuals was a book on scientific spiritism. Now, I don't know much about it, but it's pretty big here in Brazil. Third largest religion in the country. Actually. The basic idea is that spirits of the dead live on in another realm. And under the right conditions, the living can make contact with them. But this book, half the passages were highlighted about everything from luminosity to masks to communication with spiritual entities. So, ah, Now I had two dead men, a cryptic notebook, a 1962 death, and now a book about communication with spirits. Suddenly, those instructions the men had Swallow capsules, protect metals, wait for mask signal. Looked a lot less like nonsense and more more like a set of steps for some kind of contact. But that's not the half of it. When I was chasing down other leads, a woman came forward and said she was driving past Vintame Hill with her kids the night the men died. And she said she saw something. And, boy, I know how this sounds, but let me get it right here. Find the quote here. An orange oval surrounded by a ring of fire hanging in the air over the hill. Every so often, it would shoot out rays of blue light. Like searchlights. That's what she said, at least. Now, my first instinct was to dismiss this. I mean, UFO sightings now, on top of everything else. But then two more witnesses came forward with identical stories. Same orange oval, same blue lights, same time frame. And these. These two people didn't know each other, so. Right. A lot to take in. And I'm not a priest, not a scientist, not a ufo, whatever. I'm just trying to do my job right. But the rabbit hole just went deeper. Because then I went back to Elsio Gomez, the guy who drove Miguel and Manuel to the bus station. I had a feeling he wasn't telling me everything, so I brought him back in and pressed harder. I told him about the spiritism book, the 1962 case, the UFO, all of it. And this guy, he was getting more and more nervous with each new word I said, until finally, finally he broke down. Turns out Alcio wasn't just their friend. He was part of their group, this secret society of electronics technicians conducting Spiritism experiments. And their goal, apparently, was to contact beings on Mars. Not Martians bodies, but Martian spirits. Elco said their logic was simple. If there's life on other planets, then there's spirits there, too. And if you can contact human spirits, why not alien ones? Which I can't believe I'm saying this makes sense, I guess. I mean, if you're into that sort of thing. So Elsio told me they'd tried this twice before. First was in Manuel's garden with some kind of device, but it exploded and scattered a strange powder around the site. They thought the powder was a sign a spirit had been there. So then they tried again at Atafona Beach. And this experiment apparently attracted a bright object over the water before the device exploded again. And actually the Navy investigated it because of illegal radio transmission. There were three, apparently. One from Miguel and Manuel and Elsio. The other two, nobody knows. Point is, by the time Miguel and Manuel went to Vintame Hill, they'd already convinced themselves their experiments were working. The capsules mentioned in their notebook, those were to put them in the right mental state to perceive spiritual phenomena. The masks were to protect their eyes from what they believed would be luminosity from another realm. But something clearly went wrong. Miguel and Manuel followed their written protocol, took their drugs, put on their protective masks, and waited for contact. Then they just died. My question is, did they die because the experiment failed or because it succeeded? And the more I've pieced all this together, the worse I've felt. Because if there's a whole group of others like Miguel and Manuel out there, then who knows what's next? All I can say is maybe this is paranoid. I don't know. But ever since I really started digging in on this, I. I've been having problems at home. My radio cuts out constantly. Not static, but just complete silence. Like someone's jamming the signal. My television flickers, or, you know, it's just coincidence. Anyway, this morning I was told the case is officially closed. All evidence is to be turned over to federal authorities for specialized analysis. I'm keeping this tape, though. Can't sweep that under the rug. And you know what? I bet that sooner or later, more bodies are going to turn up on hillsides with strange masks on their faces. Hold on. I hear something. It's what?
- [21:45]
A
Sightings will be back just after this. Hey, skeptical geckos, I know you love exploring the unknown here on Sightings, so I want to recommend another show I think you'd like. American Hysteria. American Hysteria is a history podcast that explores moral panics, urban legends, conspiracy theories, hoaxes and crazes, and how fantastical thinking has shaped our culture from Puritans to the present. So think poison, Halloween candy, phantom clowns, haunted dolls, mind control and stranger danger. But also some cheeky ones like the thong craze and Skibidi toilet, which I think I need to look up. Point is, American Hysteria covers everything from the oddities of history to politics to pop culture. And I have loved every single episode I've heard. Sometimes horrifying, sometimes hilarious, sometimes heartfelt, American Hysteria goes in depth to exam Americans have constructed the realities we share and also the realities we don't. Subscribe to. American Hysteria right now, wherever you get your podcasts.
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B
I'm Christian McCaffrey, pro running back and.
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A
Abercrombie is an official fashion partner of the NFL.
- [22:54]
B
I'm not kidding when I say NFL by Abercrombie broke the Internet last year and I think this season's lineup is even cooler.
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A
And so does my wife, who keeps.
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B
Stealing all my hoodies.
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A
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B
And Abercrombie's newest arrivals shop NFL by Abercrombie in the app, online and in store. When did making plans get this complicated?
- [23:24]
A
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B
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A
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- [23:56]
B
Welcome back to Sidings, Brian. I am excited to dive into this because I have never, never heard of this before in my life. And well, one, I want to learn more about spiritism. Is it called?
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A
It is.
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B
It sounded a lot like Scientology in a weird way to me. Like the belief that they're like, when you die, you become like an alien spirit kind of thing. I don't know that much about Scientology either, to be honest, but there was something that was like, oh, that sounds kind of similar. And then just kind of, yeah, what's true about this, what evidence there is. I'm looking forward to unraveling the mystery a little bit.
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A
Yeah, this is fun. 1. I really enjoyed putting this one together and kind of digging into it because it's just layer upon layer upon layer of weird stuff, you know, could you just imagine being the investigator on this and just you start with you've got two bodies and then, okay, well what about these masks and Then so, like, why'd they die?
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B
What killed them?
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A
What killed them? So in. In classic true crime fashion, we have Miguel and Manuel, who are on the side of a very large hill. They're both wearing suits. They got their matching raincoats, they've got their lead masks. And I think we should talk about these masks before we do any. Anything. McLeod, I got a picture of these masks. And again, listeners, I'm going to put these on Instagram for you. McLeod, have a go at these masks.
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B
Okay, Interesting. In my head, I don't know why I was imagining like a bigger whole face covering or a helmet type thing that only came, but it almost looks like, like sunglasses. It looks like this.
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A
They're like Lady Gaga sunglasses.
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B
Lady Gaga sunglasses. Or like the sunglasses you get when you go to the eye doctor. And they've dilated your pupils from this picture. They almost look like they'd flake away. But obviously they're made of lead, so they can't be. But they're malformed. Like they've been through something, like battered.
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A
Like, which is maybe they just weren't very good with the hammer.
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B
Yeah, I mean, I guess if you're literally just blacksmithing your own lead. Ray Bans, like, pretty good job.
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A
Exactly. So we got these masks that are on the guys, and then we've got the notebook in one of their pockets. And the content of this notebook was absolutely bizarre. So I'm going to read. We already talked about some of that. Like the 4:30pm Be at the determined place, 6:30pm Swallow capsules after effect protect metals, wait for mask signal. But there was also more that was written in there about the time before all of this afternoon, evening stuff. So, like Sunday, one tablet after the meal. Monday, one tablet in the morning on an empty stomach. Tuesday, one tablet after the meal. Wednesday, one tablet before bedtime. What are these tablets?
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B
I was gonna say. Okay, so I was gonna be like. Let's cut to the quick, Brian. And just be like. There's this mention of taking a capsule, dosing out tablets. Do what these tablets or capsules are.
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A
We do not.
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B
Because it's obviously the first thing my brain goes to is they suicide. Like whatever was in this tablet poisoned them and they died. Like, whether they intended to die or not is maybe up for debate. But my guess would be whatever they took killed them.
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A
But what would they be taking for a week beforehand? Because if they were taking stuff for a week that was slowly killing them, they both died at the exact same time.
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B
Right.
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A
So the odds of that happening seem Very slim.
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B
Well, it's like they're taking for a week these tablets, but then there's a capsule.
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A
Yes.
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B
So it's a different word.
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A
It could be a different translation, honestly. So not sure about that one. I guess the point is, though, there's no obvious cause of death, Right? There were no obvious poisons or anything unusual in the digestive tract. Yeah.
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B
And so this toxicology report, there was like, a mention of, like.
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A
There was no toxicology report.
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B
They didn't do one or they.
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A
They didn't do one.
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B
Interesting.
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A
It sounds like they'd already been decomposed enough that it wasn't useful. But it doesn't make sen. I mean, I feel like they could have done something, but this was also the 1960s. Maybe it's different. The coroner ultimately determined that they died of cardiac arrest.
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B
Okay.
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A
Now, these guys were in their 30s, though, right? And if one of them had died of cardiac arrest. Yeah, I could buy that. But two guys sitting next to each other?
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B
Yeah. No, something killed them. My prime suspect is still whatever these capsules were, they were taking in my mind, valid.
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A
So, yeah, let's use that as our launching point to dig into what really happened here, because we've got our capsules, we've got our notes, we've got the masks, obviously. And then we got people after the fact being like, we saw UFOs, right. They said they were. They were bright orange and they were emitting blue beams of light. And I think that's interesting. Is it coincidence that a story about people who died with protection for their eyes died in a circumstance where other people saw the emission of light from a thing, you know, and then we've got the whole spiritism thing, which we can talk about more.
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B
Yeah, which I was going to say, I think to understand what's possibly going on, we need to understand what spiritism is and what these guys thought they were getting at. Like, what were they up there doing?
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A
Yes, well, let's talk spiritism more broadly, I guess. Again, this is my. Basically, my Wikipedia spiritism thing.
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B
Okay.
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A
But I think the gist of spiritism is that when people pass away, they become spirits. And it is possible, through mediums or whatever, to communicate with them. It's as simple as that, you know, And I guess that can take a whole bunch of different forms. In this case, these. This weird cult of electronics technicians, you know, who's doing all of this weird stuff.
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B
It's so interesting that they're all electronics techs.
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A
Is that just. They have, like. Could this have been like a Splinter group or something that was right.
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B
It's just a group of people, part of a larger movement of spiritisms. But they had happen to have a particular set of skills.
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A
Yes. And they seem to be taking things further. At least the small group that Miguel Emanuel were part of. So they seemed to believe that not only could they communicate with spirits, they wanted to communicate with extraterrestrial spirits.
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B
Okay.
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A
Because they rationalized that if there are beings on Mars, for instance, they die and they become spirits. And if we can communicate with spirits on Earth, why can't we communicate with spirits on Mars? So they were using technology and electronics and stuff like that to bring about this phenomenon for themselves. You know, they did more experiments before they ended up dead on the hill.
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B
Right.
- [30:18]
A
The first, they were in a backyard. They built some kind of device. I don't know what it looked like or did, but it ended up exploding and made this weird powder that I guess was not just residue from an.
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B
Explosion, that they claim was spirit powder. What's the provenance of the stories of the experiments?
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A
It came from the people who were around them.
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B
Like interviewed by the detective?
- [30:41]
A
Yes. Yes. I can't remember his one name. It started with an E. Yeah.
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B
Elco.
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A
Elco? Yeah. There was lco who was telling them about that. Then they built another device. They went out to a beach that was nearby the town that they came from and started transmitting some kind of radio signal from this device.
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B
Do we know the purpose of the devices they were building?
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A
I presume that the devices were built in order to communicate with these spirits from another planet. So I assume it might have been high powered radio situation. All right. What's interesting about the bodies on the hill is there's no device around them or anything like that. So that leads me to wonder if maybe.
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B
And how'd they send a radio signal?
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A
Well, maybe they weren't. Maybe. Maybe they had already established communication from their previous experiments and were now waiting to be received.
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B
Perhaps.
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A
Or.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. What was the purpose of the lead masks?
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A
No one knows.
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B
No one knows.
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A
No one knows.
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B
No one knows.
- [31:36]
A
Let's talk about the tablets, though. It's been theorized that they could have been, if not a suicide tablet, which I'm not as likely to believe necessarily, because why would they be?
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B
It doesn't sound like they wanted to die. Like it doesn't quite sound like a suicide pact. Yes, but that it was just like a kind of unfortunate. Unfortunate outcome of whatever they were taking.
- [31:54]
A
Yes. Now it's been theorized like maybe they were taking lsd. LSD comes in these little, you know, little tabs I guess or something on pieces of paper. Mescaline has been thrown around both of those cause kind of a hallucinogenic experience which maybe is necessary to open yourself up to receive these transmissions from spirits on Mars or whatever.
- [32:14]
B
Right.
- [32:15]
A
So maybe that's what they were taking those for. It is interesting to note though that neither of those LSD or mescaline are known for causing overdoses really or cardiac arrest. Unless someone had a pre existing condition. And again, two guys having the same pre existing condition at the same time.
- [32:31]
B
The idea of both of them overdosing and both of them having a cardiac arrest. Yeah, it's like they must have just taken whatever it was, like way too much of it. If we believe that they overdosed on.
- [32:45]
A
Something and remember we do have the other guy who died on the hill, a different hill, three years earlier with a lead mask. What were these guys doing? This isn't just something you randomly said, let's try putting on lead masks, lying on the side of a hill and wait and see what happens.
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B
Right. And they were trying to continue the experiment even knowing that that guy died.
- [33:04]
A
Yes.
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B
Which is very interesting.
- [33:05]
A
Now before we get into theories that don't involve aliens or spirits on Mars or anything like that, is it possible that their experiment worked? They did the procedure they were supposed to do. They prepared their bodies on the side of the hill and they transcended somehow. Like they left their bodies and entered the spirit world or whatever and their bodies were just left behind.
- [33:30]
B
So like maybe they were astral projecting, like it was an astral projection that they just never could return from.
- [33:37]
A
Maybe that sounds like a really cool idea that I hadn't seen before. Or maybe they were on the hill waiting for this UFO to come and take them.
- [33:46]
B
Right.
- [33:46]
A
And they weren't taken physically, but they.
- [33:48]
B
Were taken, taken mentally, spiritually.
- [33:50]
A
Yeah.
- [33:51]
B
Gosh, I'm just like, I find so compelling one that there was another person who did this exact thing and died and that these two guys were like aha, let's build upon that or do the same thing. Unless these guys were actually like just pretty like delusional guys who albeit were very talented with electronics perhaps, but were just out there.
- [34:14]
A
You would think that if anyone had figured this out there would be a written account of it somewhere. You know, like writing about, about the, the first guy who died on the hill or just plans for what they were trying to do. Other all they really found were a bunch of highlights and books about spiritism at large. And These weird notes that recount a procedure as though they were told it by someone. So I don't. It's. It's very strange.
- [34:38]
B
Yeah.
- [34:39]
A
Setting aside spiritism and aliens, though, there are some theories for what could have happened here that are a little more terrestrial.
- [34:45]
B
Okay, well, sure.
- [34:48]
A
One is the concept of ball lightning.
- [34:50]
B
Okay. And this is to describe the sightings of basically a craft?
- [34:56]
A
Well, it could describe a few things, yes. It ends up looking like a glowing orb. It can be many colors, including orange. It was pretty notoriously stormy that night that that happened.
- [35:08]
B
But this seems like a very rare event.
- [35:10]
A
But could it have killed them? You know, could they have gotten struck by it somehow or something like that at the same time? Or like it hit the ground around them?
- [35:17]
B
I mean, it does seem like a crazy coincidence that these two guys do this thing on this night. That there also happens to be a rare weather phenomenon.
- [35:26]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [35:27]
B
Unless the lead actually attracted the lightning.
- [35:31]
A
Also, remember that we saw a weird orb.
- [35:34]
B
I mean. Or is it possible that the lead masks actually conducted the electricity of a lightning strike?
- [35:41]
A
That's interesting. Lead is conductive, right?
- [35:44]
B
Yes. Pure lead is a conductor of electricity, though a poor one compared to metals like copper and silver.
- [35:49]
A
Okay, interesting. Also remember that we did see an orb over the beach. Is it possible that the two times these guys happened to do experiments, there happened to be ball of lightning at both of them?
- [36:01]
B
That seems hard to believe.
- [36:03]
A
Another theory involves that these guys were just involved in something completely separate from spiritism. They were smugglers of some kind and ended up getting murdered. Okay, the provenance of this is that three years after the case ended up being closed by the government. Government? An inmate in a prison in Sao Paulo said that he knew how Manuel and Miguel died. He says that he and a bunch of other men robbed them, marched them up the hill at gunpoint, made them swallow poison capsules and left them for.
- [36:32]
B
Dead and left, like, dummy moleskins on them.
- [36:37]
A
That's the thing. He didn't mention the masks, and he didn't mention the journal, the notes, or any of that kind of stuff. It should be said. It didn't show up in the story. But there was a newspaper found near the bodies that was open to an article about smoking, smuggling. Oh. Huh.
- [36:52]
B
Oh, my gosh. This story is crazy.
- [36:54]
A
Now, I think this one's also interesting. There is a theory that they could have been the victims of a long con of some kind. Okay, so, like, maybe they believed that they were going to contact aliens and things like that, but someone was feeding them this Information being like, you need to follow this procedure. You need to do this. You need to do this. You need to pull out X amount of money from the bank. You need to come to this hill at this time with your money and your whatever. And they were robbed and left for dead.
- [37:17]
B
Right.
- [37:19]
A
Kind of playing off that, you know, the belief structure, the spiritism thing.
- [37:22]
B
Yeah.
- [37:22]
A
And because it's just so bizarre, I really do want to believe that whatever they were doing worked and they are on Mars just partying with the spirits.
- [37:33]
B
Or on the moon.
- [37:34]
A
The moon is full of ghosts, guys. You heard it before.
- [37:36]
B
The moon is full of ghosts.
- [37:37]
A
But McLeod, what's your kind of skeptical gecko believer beaver take on this whole story? Because this one's probably one of the weirdest ones we've ever done.
- [37:45]
B
I think this is so strange. I don't know. I don't know what to make of it. I think the hardest thing for me to explain away is the concurrence of sky phenomenon, of sightings in the sky. I have to believe whatever they were taking. My purest skeptical gecko is like these guys accidentally killed themselves by overdosing on whatever cause. Otherwise there's no way to explain them both having cardiac events next to each other at the same time. Or it's true.
- [38:16]
A
Yeah. But listeners, we would love to hear your thoughts on this enigma inside a Mystery inside a.
- [38:22]
B
Especially if you're familiar with any aspect of the story, please.
- [38:26]
A
Yes, if you know anything about spiritism or are from this part of Brazil, please drop us a line on Instagram or leave us a note on Spotify. We love seeing those.
- [38:37]
B
All right, Brian, so next week, so excited to be back to weekly. What twisted tale are you leading us through? Brian, that was the weirdest grammatical structure I could have possibly asked that question, but please.
- [38:51]
A
Well, I'm actually gonna lead us on several twisted tales that have been provided by you listeners.
- [38:56]
B
We should rename it Creep Out McCloud. It's time for a Creep Out McLeod story.
- [39:00]
A
There you go. Yep. So we got three brand new listener stories coming your way for everyone, not just Q code plus listeners. Next week, same time, same place, right here on Sightings.
- [39:10]
B
Thanks for listening, everybody.
- [39:17]
A
Sightings is hosted by McLeod Andrews and Brian Sigley. Produced by Brian Sigley, chase Kinzer and McLeod Andrews. Written by Brian Sigley. Music by Mitch Bain. Mixing and mastering by Pat Kickliter of Sundial Media. Artwork by Nuno Cernatos. For a list of this episode's sources, check out our website website@sightingspodcast.com sightings is presented by Reverb and Q Code. If you like the show, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you're first to hear new episodes every week. And if you know other Supernatural fans, tell them about us. We'd really appreciate it.