Coming Out, Again & Again: “You must have courage to define who you are.”

Summary

Silver Linings with The Old Gays: Episode Summary – "Coming Out, Again & Again: 'You must have courage to define who you are.'"

Released on June 10, 2025 by iHeartPodcasts

In this heartfelt and engaging episode of Silver Linings with The Old Gays, hosts Robert Reeves, Jessay Martin, Bill Lyons, and Michael "Mick" Peterson delve deep into the multifaceted journey of coming out within the LGBTQ+ community. Titled "Coming Out, Again & Again: 'You must have courage to define who you are,'" the episode explores personal anecdotes, historical contexts, and the evolving landscape of LGBTQ+ acceptance and challenges.

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1. Personal Coming Out Stories

The conversation kicks off with each host sharing their unique experiences of coming out, emphasizing that the process is often ongoing rather than a one-time event.

• Bill Lyon recounts his early realization of his sexuality during college. At [05:29], he shares a pivotal moment: “I met a psychologist, and after our session, I felt a gigantic burden had been lifted off my shoulder. Then we had sex, and it was great.” This experience marked a significant turning point, freeing him to embrace his true self.

• Jessay Martin reflects on his youthful awakening to his sexuality at [03:26]: “I came out to myself in 1950, and I was six years old... I had crushes on Hopalong Cassidy and Flash Gordon.” His narrative highlights the innocence and confusion of early self-discovery.

• Robert Rees takes a different route, explaining a gradual acceptance of his identity without a dramatic coming-out moment. At [07:36], he states: “I never came out. It was a gradual process, and I was just who I was.” His story underscores the importance of a supportive environment in fostering self-acceptance.

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2. The Evolution of Coming Out

The hosts discuss how societal attitudes toward coming out have shifted over the decades, noting a significant change from the 1960s to the present.

• Jesse Martin emphasizes the repetitive nature of coming out: “You may experience coming out over and over and over again to various people throughout your life.” (01:43)

• Bill Lyon ties the evolution of coming out to broader social movements: “The first gay rights demonstrations... coincided with the women's rights movement and the civil rights movement.” (16:22) He highlights the interconnectedness of these movements in advancing LGBTQ+ rights.

• Robert Rees adds historical context by referencing the Stonewall riots: “The gay life was very much undercover...” (09:22), indicating the pivotal role of events like Stonewall in shaping the modern LGBTQ+ movement.

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3. Challenges in the LGBTQ+ Community

a. Impact of HIV/AIDS

The discussion delves into the profound effects of the HIV/AIDS epidemic on the LGBTQ+ community.

• Bill Lyon shares his activism during the crisis: “One of the first marches I participated in was for support of the Ryan White Care Act... I have never seen so many hot looking guys.” (27:40) He underscores the community’s resilience and moral fortitude during trying times.

• Robert Rees connects the epidemic to increased visibility and activism: “The anger people had during the 1980s about the non-existence of any effort to combat the disease... forced them out into the streets in large numbers.” (26:53)

b. Racism within the Community

The hosts address the ongoing issue of racism in the LGBTQ+ community, particularly affecting queer people of color.

• Mick Peterson candidly discusses his experiences as a Black gay man: “There was racism in our gay community where we don't support each other... we have to be a team and fight together.” (31:29)

• Robert Rees adds: “Hispanics are being demonized globally... We've got to stick together.” (32:00) This segment highlights the need for solidarity and inclusivity within the community.

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4. Code Switching and Authenticity

The concept of code switching—altering one's behavior to fit social contexts—is explored, questioning its impact on authenticity.

• Bill Lyon criticizes code switching: “It's the opposite of being authentic. It's really an excuse to lie.” (20:05) He stresses the importance of honesty in personal identity.

• Jesse Martin shares a contrasting experience where he never felt the need to change his behavior at work because his bosses were supportive: “I had a lot of freedom just to be myself.” (17:56)

• Mick Peterson discusses the necessity of code switching for safety: “I had to decisify... to protect myself until I came out to my mom.” (17:28) This highlights the real dangers that compel individuals to hide their true selves.

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5. Advice for Young LGBTQ+ Individuals

The hosts offer guidance for younger members of the LGBTQ+ community facing the challenges of coming out.

• Jesse Martin advises patience and finding supportive peers: “Don’t force yourself to come out. Wait until you’re comfortable.” (28:31)

• Bill Lyon emphasizes that young people are not alone and encourages seeking community resources: “You have four friends right here rooting for you... look for a community resource.” (29:34)

• Mick Peterson highlights the necessity of courage: “You must have courage to define who you are.” (29:56) He warns against leaving one's identity undefined by external forces.

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6. The Future of Coming Out

The discussion turns to whether society has moved beyond the need to come out and the persistent challenges that suggest otherwise.

• Bill Lyon firmly states: “We are always going to live in a coming out world because there are always going to be forces... to push back.” (33:03)

• Jesse Martin and Robert Rees concur, reaffirming the ongoing relevance of pride events and the collective strength they foster: “We get to meet as a community and show unity... it's a Queer Pride Festival.” (34:07)

• The hosts collectively agree that celebrating coming out remains essential for community solidarity and visibility.

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7. Conclusion and Silver Linings

As the episode wraps up, each host reflects on the positive outcomes of their journeys.

• Jessay Martin appreciates not having to confront his family: “My silver lining is that I never had to go through coming out to my family.” (34:58)

• Bill Lyon values his authenticity: “I took the road to being my true self... I've been the better man for it.” (35:10)

• Mick Peterson and Robert Rees highlight the strength and authenticity gained from true friendships: “I found out who my friends really are... the bond you have with the people you know who are your friends are stronger.” (35:26)

These reflections underscore the enduring power of authenticity and community in the face of adversity.

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Key Takeaways and Notable Quotes

• Recurrent Nature of Coming Out: “You may experience coming out over and over and over again to various people throughout your life.” – Jesse Martin [01:43]

• Authenticity vs. Code Switching: “It's the opposite of being authentic. It's really an excuse to lie.” – Bill Lyon [20:05]

• Importance of Community Solidarity: “We have to be a team and fight together because we're all in this thing together.” – Mick Peterson [31:29]

• Enduring Need for Pride and Visibility: “We are always going to live in a coming out world...” – Bill Lyon [33:03]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Silver Linings with The Old Gays offers a poignant exploration of the complexities surrounding coming out. Through personal narratives and insightful discussions, the hosts illuminate both the progress made and the challenges that persist within the LGBTQ+ community. Their collective wisdom serves as both a testament to resilience and a beacon of hope for future generations navigating their own journeys of self-discovery and acceptance.

Transcript

[Bill Lyon]

Ruby.

[Jesse Martin]

In the 60s, you just didn't tell anybody that you were gay.

[Mick Peterson]

And I found out who my friends really are. You find out.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay, I'm gonna dig.

[Robert Rees]

This is juicy.

[Mick Peterson]

From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles in steamy Palm Springs, California, it's Mick, Robert, Bill, Jesse. And this is Silver Linings with the old gays. Friends, I have something to tell you. I'm gay.

[Jesse Martin]

Oh, my golly.

[Robert Rees]

So what else is new?

[Bill Lyon]

We must throw you a coming out party.

[Robert Rees]

Jesse, there is probably no better way to kick off Pride month on the show than to talk about the moment or are moments that have been part of our coming out of the closet, if you will.

[Jesse Martin]

And while coming out can look like many things, like an internal experience or a terrifying conversation with a loved one, the tides have changed a lot since the days when we were first discovering ourselves. When we ask, when did you come out? And it makes it seem like you come out of the closet once and you're done. But oftentimes that's not the case. You may experience coming out over and over and over again to various people throughout your life. And the experience of coming out is far from a monolith.

[Bill Lyon]

Before you come out to any of your friends, family, et cetera, you have to come out to yourself. So, boys, when and how did you realize you were gay?

[Robert Rees]

Well, for me, it was before grade school when I had this fascination with National Geographic stories about Indians and different tribal cultures. And also Sears catalog underwear section, which I was fascinated. Fascinated with. Cool.

[Bill Lyon]

And you said I'm gay because I like the men in the Sears catalog.

[Robert Rees]

No, I. I just knew that I had a strong interest in men as opposed to women.

[Bill Lyon]

What part of their bodies were you attracted to Robert?

[Robert Rees]

Well, I. Pecs were always nice.

[Bill Lyon]

What about the pouch in their briefs?

[Robert Rees]

Those two?

[Bill Lyon]

You never see a big bulge in a. In a Sears catalog, let alone, well, maybe a Calvin Klein.

[Robert Rees]

Yeah, well, over time, that has become more of a feature.

[Bill Lyon]

So you're. You're a fan of Marky Marks?

[Robert Rees]

Yeah.

[Mick Peterson]

International Male did too. They started teasing.

[Robert Rees]

Oh, yeah?

[Mick Peterson]

Yes. Yes. I came out to myself, I think, at the age of 16. Even though I'd been with guys, I didn't know what to call it. I just like men. And I was happy.

[Jesse Martin]

Well, I came out to myself in 1950, and I was six years old, and a movie had just come out called the Kid from Texas, which was about Audie Murphy playing the part of Billy the Kid. And my parents decided to take me to the movie. And at the end, of course, Billy the Kid was shot. And as we were leaving the theater, my mother looked at me because I was crying, and she looked at my father and said, this gun stuff was too much. But actually, the reason why I was crying was because they killed Billy the Kid, that cute, cute guy. And this rolled over also into the matinees at the theater on Saturday. When I had crushes on Hopalong Cassidy and Flash Gordon.

[Bill Lyon]

I was in college, and I think it was my senior year, and I had. No, my junior year. Junior year. And I had a crush on a football player, and I was dating a girl. And I used to watch this guy all the time. I mean, he was six two, football player, blonde, blue eyes, and studying to be a doctor. I mean, you know, and I found this incredible sexual fascination for him. And I had had those before, and I had had sex with other guys before, but, you know, I was dating a girl, and I thought, well, I'll probably marry her. And. But it was such a strong, strong feeling, and it got to be so incredibly hard that I met a psychologist, and I went to see him, and I saw him for a session, and he explained some things about what it means to be gay and what it does not. And I left there feeling like this gigantic burden had been lifted off my shoulder. And then he invited me out to dinner, and we had sex, and it was great. Yes, I had sex with my psychologist.

[Mick Peterson]

At dinner?

[Bill Lyon]

No, after. After dinner.

[Jesse Martin]

You were dinner.

[Mick Peterson]

He was dessert.

[Bill Lyon]

Well, you know, I was 22 at the time. On the other hand, he was 30. And so, you know, we were both babes.

[Mick Peterson]

Yes.

[Bill Lyon]

And so it was like this door had opened and I decided to walk through it, and that changed my life.

[Jesse Martin]

Did it make a difference, the fact he was older than you?

[Bill Lyon]

No, it's the fact that he had a big dick.

[Mick Peterson]

Well, shut my mouth.

[Bill Lyon]

He was very. He was very handsome. Very dark and handsome. Hairy.

[Mick Peterson]

My question to y' all, do you come out the first time you have sex with a guy or do you come out later?

[Bill Lyon]

Well, I think it's in. The explanation of before is that you experience coming out over and over and over.

[Mick Peterson]

Yes.

[Bill Lyon]

And it just. It's. It's a reinforcing experience. Now, if you have a negative experience, that can send you right back in.

[Robert Rees]

Well, in terms of announcing to the world or a group of friends, I. I never came out. For me, it was a gradual process, and I was just who I was. And when I look back, I realize that I exhibited a lot of the stereotypical characteristics of a young queer Child. I was artistic. I didn't like sports. I was good at school. I had effeminate characteristics, but nobody ever said anything to me. I never had a negative experience. I just was who I was. And fortunately, I grew up in an environment that accepted me for who I was.

[Jesse Martin]

Well, I'm right along with Bob. I never came out or told my family that I was gay. To me, my coming out was when I first had sex with a man. And that was when I was 16 years old and had just gotten my driver's license and drove down to Laguna beach, plunked myself down and had sex with the guy at his place.

[Bill Lyon]

When did you come out to your family?

[Jesse Martin]

I, I, We've never had a discussion about it. I moved to San Francisco when I was 21 years old, and that got me away from all of my father always trying to accuse me of being gay.

[Bill Lyon]

But if he had accused you of being gay and you said, yes, I'm gay, what would have happened then?

[Jesse Martin]

I have no idea.

[Mick Peterson]

What do you think would have happened?

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah, what do you think would have happened?

[Jesse Martin]

They'd have sent me to a psychiatrist in Beverly Hills.

[Bill Lyon]

Oh, that's a fun experience. And they spent money for it. That's how parents destroy children, you know?

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah. Okay. Bob, you never came out. You never said I'm gay?

[Robert Rees]

No. It was not until I was in my twenties in the business world that I ever really kind of announced to the world that I was gay.

[Bill Lyon]

But okay, so you were in a business situation in the Bay Area?

[Robert Rees]

No, this was in St. Louis.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay, so you've told me before in Times, and we've discussed it, that St. Louis at that time was pretty homophobic.

[Robert Rees]

Oh, yeah. The gay life was very much undercover. You had to really seek it out and know where it is. And in the 1970s, along with my first lover and friend, we had bought real estate that we were operating. And I became provoked by an incident in which I started running ads in local newspapers that responsible tenants welcome regardless of race, beliefs, or orientation. And that really was the first public gesture I ever made.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay, I'm going to dig. This is juicy. And what happened when you did that?

[Robert Rees]

Well, the president of a bank that we were doing a lot of business with came up to me and told me that, you know, there are a lot of people in this community that are very concerned about your policies. You might want to give consideration to changing them. Otherwise, we'd hate to see you lose everything you built up to this point in time.

[Bill Lyon]

So they threatened to withhold it Must have been a banker.

[Robert Rees]

Yeah.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay, so he threatened to withhold funds from you because you were renting out to homosexuals.

[Robert Rees]

Publicly renting.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay. Is that what drove you out of St. Louis and why you decided to move to San Francisco?

[Robert Rees]

It was one of the factors. There were also personal issues relating to the breakup of my second lover.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay, I'm not going there.

[Robert Rees]

Good.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay. Just say, what's your biggest surprise about coming out to people?

[Mick Peterson]

The biggest surprise was those who asked. I always told them yes, and I never lost a friend. And you won't lose your friends because they know you as your individual self, religiously or not. That's where I was in that wonderful world of church, where you're supposed to love everybody, but they got the hate going on. But it was scary. The hardest one was coming out to my mom simply because I loved her and didn't want to hurt her. But I hurt her by not saying anything because she just says, you know, baby, I could have been there for you. I says, I had to do it on my own.

[Jesse Martin]

Mom.

[Mick Peterson]

I says, I came out at the right time because she kept asking me when I'm getting married, and I was already in a relationship. My dad, on the other hand, thank God he was deceased because he truly would have killed me because he threatened to do that if I was a queer.

[Robert Rees]

Yeah, I think it's much easier now because there are so many public role models that young people can look to. And just seeing and knowing that there are a lot of people like you makes it a lot easier.

[Jesse Martin]

I think in the 60s, you just didn't tell anybody that you were gay. I mean, it would have. It would have been the end of me in high school. But when I moved to San Francisco in. And in the 70s, there was kind of a push for people to come out of the closet. And I don't know if that worked or not, but all of a sudden, there was a lot of people that came out.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah. Since I basically came of age in the 1970s, one of the first things that if you were to attend a meeting of gay rights activists is that they stress the fact that you need to come out to your family, that love begins in the family, and that's where acceptance is going to start. I think also we have to look at the effect of the HIV AIDS epidemic and the fact that, at least in this country, and at that time, people were showing a lot more empathy for gay people because of what they were going through. And it also had to do with families who were losing their gay Children, Even those who rejected their children. Can you imagine the guilt that they must feel now that they have dead children not helping them just because they wouldn't accept their sexuality? Think about that.

[Mick Peterson]

Yeah. And it still is going on. It's hard because of those kids or adults who are in small towns that still have to play the game.

[Robert Rees]

Yeah.

[Jesse Martin]

And one of the saddest things that I remember happening, and it is still happening, is if you had a pardoner and the pardoner died, the family would step in and literally push you out of the way. And that was very, very sad.

[Bill Lyon]

And take your money.

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah.

[Mick Peterson]

That's why paper works for me.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah. You know, when. When I was still with my partner, we created interlocking trusts, and the first thing we did was disinherit our families. Yeah. And that's because the lawyer said, you know, when a person dies, people get a little funny. They think they're entitled to something that they are really not. A lot of people. I remember who their partners died, and because there's no marriage contract, because that relationship was not recognized by law, the family of the deceased could sweep in and take everything. And I think that is morally repulsive.

[Mick Peterson]

It is, yeah.

[Bill Lyon]

Now that I've got off my soapbox. When we think about the evolution of the gay rights movement, changing the landscape for coming out, many efforts laid the groundwork. Thanks to the efforts of the civil rights movement, the road was being paved for LGBTQ rights.

[Robert Rees]

Yes.

[Jesse Martin]

Yes.

[Bill Lyon]

You all agree with that?

[Robert Rees]

I do, absolutely. And there was a noticeable societal change taking place in the late 70s, early 80s that you had the feeling that things were loosening up.

[Bill Lyon]

Well, I kind of look back. You know, the first gay rights demonstrations that I saw were in New York City, really, in the late 60s. It coincided with the women's rights movement and also with the civil rights movement. And a lot of the tactics were the same. That's what I think is important, because there are a lot of people in the civil rights movement who were not supportive of gay rights.

[Robert Rees]

Isn't that when Stonewall happened?

[Bill Lyon]

Well, that was 1969. Yeah.

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay. This is something that I thought was an interesting subject. Code switching. It's not always safe to come out, unfortunately. We may need to slide back into the closet from time to time and not just for another fabulous outfit to wear. Has there ever been a time when you've had to stay in the closet to stay safe? Now, just to define what code switching is, the practice of changing how you express yourself to fit in with a given social context.

[Mick Peterson]

Oh, yes. I had to. I had to decisify. I know it's hard for you to believe. When I was younger, you know, dating. Dating a wonderful woman, I had to kind of macho it up a little. It was hard, too, but I had to do it to protect myself until. And I didn't want anybody to know because I hadn't come out to my mom yet.

[Jesse Martin]

You know, I never had the problem of having to butch it up at work or stay in the closet because almost all of my bosses were gay. So I had a lot of freedom just to be myself. And I thought of myself, first of all, as a person and secondly, as someone gay.

[Bill Lyon]

And during this time that you lived in San Francisco, did you ever visit your family?

[Jesse Martin]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Lyon]

And did you change your behavior to fit that situation?

[Jesse Martin]

No, I was always Bill. I've always been myself.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay. You just never admitted to your family that you were gay.

[Jesse Martin]

I'd like to put a different way. It was. It was never discussed in my family.

[Bill Lyon]

Well, yeah, but your. Your relationship with your father.

[Jesse Martin]

Yes, it was. It was poor.

[Bill Lyon]

But did. Did he ever accuse you of being gay?

[Jesse Martin]

No, he never accused me. He was always trying to prove that I was gay. It's probably the same.

[Mick Peterson]

It is.

[Robert Rees]

I do not ever recall pretending I was straight.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay.

[Robert Rees]

It was impossible.

[Bill Lyon]

Well, in that vein, I responded to this whole section here by asking a question. When has staying in the closet ever been safe? You live with the fear of being outed, either by a circumstance or someone else, and means that you don't have control of your life. If you're sitting in the closet and you're afraid that somebody is going to out you, you don't have control of your life. Think of all those people in Uganda or Nigeria who, if they say anything about being gay, they will be murdered still. Yes. And that's happening in Russia.

[Mick Peterson]

Yeah.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay. So code switching to me is the opposite of being authentic. It's really an excuse to lie. And I will say lying is a big problem for us because we learned to lie at a very early age, and that was impressed upon us. And that is a problem when you deal with other issues such as alcoholism, substance abuse, or gambling. And so that's my take on that. That's very serious, but that's how I deal.

[Robert Rees]

Yeah. And I think in today's world that young people as well as everyone are getting so many negative signals. And my fear is that this is going to shape future generations in a very negative way.

[Bill Lyon]

I remember coming out after I came out in college of course, I was in the theater department. And so I came out to two people who I suspected might be, and they came out to me. And for once, you know, I felt that, wow, I have company in this. And not to say that things were easy because there were a lot of people in the theater department who were very much against this. In fact, later on I was told by an agent that if I was going to continue to have an open relationship with my lover, I could just give up show business because no one was going to hire me.

[Mick Peterson]

Yeah, they had to hide a lot more back then.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah. You know, it's different now. It's really different now.

[Mick Peterson]

Yeah. And it's because of us.

[Robert Rees]

Yes.

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah.

[Robert Rees]

Which I feel good about. Yes, I do, too.

[Jesse Martin]

We'll be right back after a quick break. This ad is brought to you by Veeve Healthcare, the makers of Dovato, Dolutegravir, Lamivudine.

[Robert Rees]

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[Mick Peterson]

If you've done it like us, the old gays, it also means facing the daunting road to coming out in the.

[Bill Lyon]

1970S and 80s and sadly, witnessing the loss of friends and loved ones to HIV over the years.

[Robert Rees]

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[Jesse Martin]

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[Bill Lyon]

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[Mick Peterson]

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[Jesse Martin]

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[Robert Rees]

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[Bill Lyon]

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[Mick Peterson]

Visit devato.com or call 1-877-844-8872 to learn more. Welcome back to Silver Linings with the old gaze.

[Robert Rees]

We've been talking about the idea of coming out as it pertains to sexual orientation. But we often have to come out as many identities throughout our lives. If we differ from social norms, our interests, our religious beliefs, our backgrounds, disabilities, preferences, etc. What's something else that has driven you to come out?

[Bill Lyon]

I'll start on my disability. I have a very rare autoimmune condition called chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuritis. And what that means is that the white blood cells are attacking the coating that's around the nerves and the result is numbness, tingling pain, fatigue, early death. You know, if it wasn't for the drugs that I have been prescribed and especially this new compound that I've been prescribed, I would not be here.

[Robert Rees]

So that's the story of HIV during the 80s and early 90s is that you found yourself being afflicted with a disease that had no known cure and really no treatment. And so we all grew up in that world.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah, I think that was the motivation for a lot of people to come out. You know, if you're sick. I know of a lot of people though who were very sick, who never admitted they were gay, they never admitted how they became infected. And that was part of the problem. And it's still part of the problem now because if you're in denial about your sexuality and you're going out to the baths or going out to the local park or you're hooking up with somebody on Grindr and yet you don't really know who you are, you're going to get yourself in trouble.

[Robert Rees]

I also think that the anger so many people had during the 1980s about the non existence of any effort to try to combat or deal with the disease that so many people felt like, well, if I'm going to die from this disease, then I don't need to fear being killed because people know I'm gay. So that forced them out into the streets in large numbers and it brought on the wave that has happened in the later 80s and 90s.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah, I remember one of the first marches I participated in was for support of the Ryan White Care act, which was in Congress at time. And it was a march down Wilshire Boulevard in Westwood all the way to the federal building. And I have never seen so many hot looking guys. Of course, a lot of them are gone now, but I'd never seen so many hot looking guys in my life. And just demanding that. That Mr. Reagan acknowledge that AIDS exist and support this bill, that was very important. And I think that's the first time we understood that we had not just power in numbers, but we had a moral cause.

[Robert Rees]

We all share the experience of coming out during a time when it was incredibly dangerous. Unfortunately, we're living during a time when there's been increasing backlash against the LGBTQ community, especially our queer youth. What's your advice for a young LGBTQ person who may be feeling like they're stuck in the closet?

[Jesse Martin]

My first advice to them is don't force yourself to come out. Wait until you're comfortable. And the main thing is if you have a peer that you can talk to and if they can just build up a rapport with someone, it's going to make a lot easier for them to come out. And so wait until you're ready to come out and don't force it.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah. I have some advice. You are not alone. You are not alone. You have four friends right here rooting for you. So go online if you have a computer or look for a community resource, because there are a lot more now than there were when we were growing up.

[Mick Peterson]

A lot.

[Bill Lyon]

But most of all, you must have courage. You must have courage to define who you are. Otherwise, someone else or an unplanned event will do it for you. I know it'll be hard because it was hard for all of us, but you will open a door to a new path in life. It's not going to be roses. It may not even be better. You know, I thought when I first came out that, oh, we're all gay people and we all love each other, but you were on the way to being who you are. So that's what I say to you.

[Robert Rees]

I would like to add that I believe that when you're trying to teach to others the world where you're coming from, try not to provoke people, because by provoking, you're going to elicit a negative response. And it is better to lead by example and by doing good and by being gentle as you can and what you have to say, that it'll be more likely that people will listen to you and will be gentle with you.

[Mick Peterson]

Okay. I found it hard coming out to our gay community because of the racism that's still in here. There's racism in our gay community where we don't support each other. And there were doors that were shut in my face. Because as an African American, black gay man, they didn't want me. You didn't want me in your bars, you didn't want me anywhere around you. And we need to be a team and fight together because we're all in this thing together. And it still goes on is just different now.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah, I've seen that.

[Mick Peterson]

And black men, I mean, our community is rough. And we should get it, you know, from our history. We should be there for each other. And a lot of times we're not. We can't unite.

[Robert Rees]

Yeah. And. And now it's becoming even worse because Hispanics are being demonized globally. I just. Yeah, those are being maligned. We've got to stick together.

[Bill Lyon]

Okay, so that brings up the final question. Clearly, a lot has changed since we were first peeking out of the closet. We talked about a stat that recently found that over 25% of Gen Zs identify as queer. With this increased visibility, it begs the question, do we live in a post coming out world?

[Mick Peterson]

No.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah. No. And I'll say this. We are always going to live in a coming out world because there are always going to be forces, as they are now, to push back. Look, if you apply for a passport or you get a new passport, you either have to identify as a male or a female. Okay? Not anything else. And I think that is wrong. And I think we will pay for that because you are excluding a group of people. And when you do that, you go down a very slippery slope. And before you know it, you don't have any freedoms in this country. That's the canary in the mind.

[Mick Peterson]

It is.

[Bill Lyon]

And so is it still necessary to celebrate the idea of coming out?

[Mick Peterson]

Yes.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah. My response was, what? And give up parades?

[Jesse Martin]

I was thinking about a big party.

[Bill Lyon]

Yeah.

[Robert Rees]

I was thinking of Gay Pride parades.

[Bill Lyon]

Those are times when we meet as a community and that, you know, we do show unity. And so it's very important to attend a parade, attend a Gay Pride festival, because it shouldn't be a Gay Pride festival. It's a Queer Pride Festival. You know, just as, you know, we no longer have leather parties, we have fetish parties.

[Mick Peterson]

Ooh. All right, boys, we're reaching the end of today's episode. Since this show is called Silver Linings, think back on our conversation. What is the silver lining you took from coming out of the closet?

[Jesse Martin]

My silver lining is that I never had to go through coming out to my family, and then I started bringing boyfriends home, and there was actually no comments at all.

[Bill Lyon]

The silver lining that I took is, is that I took the road to being authentic. I took the road to being my true self. And that means the good and the bad and everything in between. And I've been the better man for it.

[Mick Peterson]

And I found out who my friends really are. You find out. And luckily I've been blessed to not lose any.

[Robert Rees]

Not only do you find out, but the bond you have with the people you know who are your friends are stronger.

[Mick Peterson]

Yes. And they realize that. It's just not. I don't know why people think we have sex 24 7. You know, it's like too tired. But some do.

[Bill Lyon]

Oh, I wish.

[Robert Rees]

There was a time.

[Bill Lyon]

Things would be so much better in the world.

[Robert Rees]

Wouldn't please.

[Mick Peterson]

Yes. That's all for today on Silver Linings with the Old Gays. Silver Linings is a production of iHeart's Ruby Studio and the Outspoken Network. We're your hosts Bill Lyon, Jesse Martin.

[Robert Rees]

Mick Peterson and Robert Rees.

[Mick Peterson]

Our executive producer is Sierra Kaiser. The episode was written by by Ryan Amador with post production by Eric Zeiler. Our theme music was composed by Max Hirschenau with audio direction and design by Matt Stillo. And if you're having fun with us, please subscribe to follow along. And don't forget to rate and review the show wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening. See you in two weeks.

[Bill Lyon]

She has not achieved diva status yet.

[Mick Peterson]

Soul Train baby yeah.

[Robert Rees]

What the hell is a cheugy?

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