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A
Before we dive in, I want to let you know that this episode is brought to you by PIN Generator, the Pinterest marketing tool that saves you tons of time creating and scheduling pins. You can put any URL into PIN Generator and it will generate pins for you using the images and content from that particular URL. And best of all, you can create your own dynamic templates to suit your brand perfectly. Check out Pin Generator's awesome AI Features that make creating unique Pinterest content a breeze. Use the code SC P M and get 20% off any of the plans. This week only.
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B
You're listening to the Simple Pen podcast, Pinterest, for business advice that goes down smooth and easy. Here's your host, Kate All.
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A
Hey there. Welcome back to another episode of the Simple Pen podcast. Today we are going to be talking with Jamie Lynn Nye of iHeart Naptime about what it's like to have 4 million followers on Pinterest. It is really easy to see people with millions of followers on a platform and think they hit the easy button. They can just coast in marketing nirvana on whatever platform they have. But that might not be the case. To tell us the story of what it's like to have 4 million followers, I wanted to interview Jamie Lynn about that experience. She's been on Pinterest from the beginning. So is it really all roses and sunshine like everybody anticipates it will be? What's her story been and what is it currently like today? So with that, let's dive into my interview with Jamie Lynn. Jamie Lynn, welcome to the Simple Pin Podcast.
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B
I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
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A
Yeah, me too. I'm excited to chat with you. I know it's been years. You came to mind just recently, and I was coming up with this idea of kind of follower growth equaling, you know, amazing growth for the, you know, the creator. And I thought, well, I just need to talk to you about your experience of having 4 million followers. So before we get to that point, start me at the beginning, kind of the origin story. How did you even get started with Pinterest and using it for your business?
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B
Yeah, I started my blog back in 2010, and so I feel like I'm kind of a dinosaur in the industry. And I was there working on my blog spot before Pinterest even began. And then it was later that year, Pinterest kind of started rolling out, and I was an early adapter. I hopped right on. I was one of the first on Pinterest, so I really got in at the beginning, which was awesome for my business because I was selected as one of the creators that they featured, which really helped boost my follower count in the beginning. But it also took years of consistently putting out new pins, new content, and really staying consistent. That has really helped over the years. Pinterest has been a huge asset to my business. It's continued to be one of the strongest drivers of traffic besides Google. So, yeah, I've been around since the beginning, and Pinterest has been a huge part of my business.
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A
So I have to ask, do you remember how you got your first invite? Do you remember who sent it to you? Or was it just.
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B
It was from Ben, the original founder of Pinterest, which was amazing. I feel like there was only a few people on the team back then, and for some reason he reached out and we had a conversation and, yeah, the ball just started. I feel like rolling after that. I remember one day looking at my follower count and it was like 10,000. The next day it was like 12,000. And then just kind of started spiraling, which was really fun to see. And I feel like back in the day, it was. Pinterest was so fun. You know, you'd pin something and it go viral and you'd see the repaint count growing. It was a whole different world back then, but it still is a lot of fun and I still enjoy Pinterest even today.
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A
Well, let's kind of jump off on that point, because I think people who have been creators for so long, 14 years for you, almost 15 years, when you have this experience of something that is watching your follower account grow, and at the the time, too, that was equally equaling a lot of traffic, like, you would kind of see go crazy. And then you would get these visits to your site. All those changes and how Pinterest is so different now. How have you adjusted and kind of ebbed and flow with these changes? Or has that been a struggle for you to kind of, for lack of a better phrase, pine for the old days, if you will?
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B
Yeah, I think it was about three or four years ago where there was a really big shift and we started to notice a decline. I think my traffic cut in half, I would say, within about a month from Pinterest. So there was definitely a shift where they changed things. And at that point, I remember bloggers kind of just, oh, that's it. I'm not doing Pinterest. And kind of jumping off the bandwagon on Pinterest. And I kind of looked at it as, how can I pivot? How Can I readjust my strategy? It wasn't just throwing a pin up there and you were gonna take off anymore. It was really having to dig into the analytics to see what was working. It was digging into the search to see what was working. It was then I started really digging into keywords and looking at Pinterest more as a search engine rather than, I'm just here for a social, you know, social media strategy. I kind of pushed off my social media strategy and started looking at it more with analytical eyes and really focusing it more as a search engine base. Kind of like I do with Google. The same kind of strategy I'm doing with Google, I'm doing with Pinterest.
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A
Okay, so really making remaining focus on data overall. And do you feel like in that data focus because there's this idea of groupthink. Right. And when you see all of your colleagues saying, I'm done with Pinterest, I am out of here. Was there a temptation to kind of like follow the crowd or for you was this moment of saying, I don't think I'm going to give this up and then, you know, you say, I'm going to switch strategies, or did you have that temptation to kind of go with the group think to say, well, maybe I should give it up?
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B
I think there is always that temptation when there's, you know, hundreds of bloggers kind of chatting in Facebook groups. And I feel like you just have to step away from the chatter and really think about what's right for your business. And Pinterest, it's not a quick win. And so I think it for a lot of bloggers, it's hard because it's a long term strategy. And so if you're putting out Halloween content right now, you're probably not going to reap the benefits until next Halloween. And so I think just taking a step back and for me to realize, okay, do I want my Halloween content this year to perform next year? I'm gonna have to do the work now and really just take a step back and realize it's not gonna go viral overnight. Like, it's just not how Pinterest works anymore. And so for me, I never really was willing to walk away because Pinterest was such a huge asset in my business. And so it was more for me always about just pivoting with the trends and seeing how, you know, and I have over the years tried the different trends and different, you know, tools they've come out with. But I have to look always back at the data. Like, what's really working. What's the ROI and what worked last year may not work this year, but let's just keep consistently putting out good content. And I feel like that eventually you'll get rewarded for that.
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A
Yes, 100% agree with that. So let's go back between 2010 and 2014 because I feel like that time frame was when followers did matter, right? Because the more followers you had, the more traffic you had. Tell me about that growth journey. Like, what was it like? Did you, I'm assuming you hit 1 million followers during that phase? If not, kind of walk me through that excitement of just seeing the follower growth during that time.
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B
It was, it was honestly a thrill, I feel like, because I feel like Facebook was kind of slow at the time. You know, everyone was kind of jumping on the Facebook bandwagon and that was kind of stagnant. And then Pinterest came and I remember talking with a few friends that were also in the program and we would just send each other screenshots like, is this, like, is this real? And I, I feel like it was fun. It was really an exciting time. But at the same time, it also made me more excited to create new content for my followers because I would see one thing take off and then like, how can I recreate and spin that to create another viral. And so I feel like I was at the top of my creative game back then because I was kind of leading, you know, just different ideas and things that worked back then. Unfortunately, I feel like don't work now, but it was an exciting time and I feel honored that I was a part of it. And I do feel like now followers definitely do not matter as much as they used to. I, I think it's more about being found and creating good, solid keywords that people can find you through search. But I think, you know, there's always the number game because people look at, you know, the numbers on your accounts. But I always tell new bloggers that are asking me about Pinterest strategy that you can still grow your Pinterest traffic without a following. It's not really about the numbers anymore.
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A
Yeah. Do you still look at the numbers? Is there a part of you that kind of checks it out every once in a while, or have you kind of completely pushed it out of your mind?
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B
I still track. I feel like at the end of the month, just as part of my routine for my business, I still track. I have a Google spreadsheet, which is, you know, I've been tracking for over 10 years, and it is cool to see the. The numbers. At the end of the month, I write down, you know, all of my social media followings, the traffic that came from each spot, and that way I can kind of see where there's been growth or maybe where it's stagnant. And I definitely feel like the numbers of followers has been more stagnant this year. With Pintere, it's not as before. You know, it may be like thousands of new followers per week or per month, and now it's maybe just, you know, a couple thousand per month. And so I definitely feel like the number is more stagnant this year. But I haven't seen the traffic dip. And so I feel like it's still been a steady incline, which has been awesome. So it just goes to show that just because you're not seeing follower growth doesn't mean that you cannot get a traffic boost from Pinterest as well.
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A
Yeah, and that was actually going to be my question, because I think there's this idea that, okay, if we see follower growth, there's always going to be the same pattern. So therefore, if we see a slow in follower growth or even a decrease, because I remember there was a time too, on Pinterest when we would see them kind of sweep the platform for spam and you would decrease in followers and you would think, oh my gosh, what's going to happen? But you never really saw this correlation of traffic decreasing with that. And truthfully, you don't even want those accounts. Right. Because they're spam.
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B
Yeah, they're not gonna drive traffic. They're not actual eyeballs on your content. And so for me, even, you know, with Instagram, if they're doing a cleanup, I'm all for that, because then your reach is going to start going back up. And so I don't worry too much or stress too much about that.
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A
Right. So one of the. I want to talk about your tools that you use and ask you some questions around that. But I think the question that a lot of people or the myth that a lot of people have is that you have 4 million followers. It is now easy for you. You can just kind of set the easy button. You don't really have to worry about it because you're at the top of the top. So even if you stop pinning or you stop creating, you're not going to be impacted as much. Would you say that that is something that people. That is a myth, that it's something that you still have to work at it, you still have to invest in it, because you have to nurture and grow this platform and it's not necessarily the case that you can just kind of like kick back and let it run.
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B
Yeah, I think it's definitely a myth. I think with every single social platform and Google and everything on your website, you have to be there day in and day out to continue to see growth with traffic. Creating new content, I feel like is one of the best ways to build new growth. But also I feel like just looking back at my old content, I have to constantly be in there analyzing. And I do personally still get on Pinterest every morning and I pin a few pins. I go into my analytics, I see what's trending. I'll repin maybe 5 to 10 pins just from trending in my analytics. And I've done that consistently for years. And I feel like if I were to stop, things would start to go down. And I have. There have been times, you know, during the past 10 years when I've had babies that we've moved and I kind of took a month or two off and I did see the numbers start to decline. So it's definitely a long game strategy. I feel like it doesn't take much time, though. It's really not hard to maintain your Pinterest account because if you're in there for five minutes per day, it's just part of my morning routine. I just hop in, you know, five to ten minutes per day. And then I also have my team creating new pins and new content to put out. But I do feel like there is something to say about going on as an actual pinner and just scrolling through your feed, pinning as a regular pinner would. I think that's really beneficial to any healthy account.
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A
Yeah. And I also agree that you get to see what is actually trending out there. You get to get ideas. And I imagine as you scroll through the platform, you think of things like, oh, I could create that or I could do this or whatever it is. And you also get to see the changes on the platform, the things that Pinterest is integrated into, whether it's shopping or anything like that, because they're definitely growing in that area. So I love that call out.
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B
It is nice to see when you're scrolling, what kind of pins they're featuring in the feed, whether it's. Sometimes I notice they're featuring a lot of just images without text. Sometimes it's the collages, sometimes it's more video. And I do feel like that kind of ebbs and flows with whatever their algorithm is at, you know, the moment. And so I can tell my team to push out more of those type of images I'm seeing in the feedback, because that's what they're favoring.
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A
Yeah. So what I'm hearing is that you have help, but you're definitely the leader in kind of strategy and where it's going. You have your finger on the pulse with what is happening with Pinterest and you get to guide your team on that. And one of the things that you've brought up a couple times is keywords. So I'd love to hear from you, like, how do you identify keyword do you want to use? How do you integrate them into your. Your content strategy too? We'll talk about that in a second. But what are your favorite tools to use for keyword research?
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B
Honestly, my favorite tool is just the search bar on Pinterest. I feel like for me, I mean, we do keyword research for the blog post in Semrush or in Google beforehand. So we kind of already have our base set of keywords that we're targeting in our blog post. But then I'll take those keywords and I'll put them into Pinterest search and see what type of words are popping up. See what's first on the first row because that's kind of the search terms that readers are going in and searching into the Pinterest search bar. And so I'll take those and I'll try to integrate them into the text. Keywords can also be found on the text overlay with the images. So I'll try to incorporate the keyword there. I'll try to incorporate the keywords into my boards and make sure those pins are going to the correct board. So if it's a cookie, having it repinned onto a cookie board or maybe repinned further onto a dessert board and kind of make sure that original pin is going as far as it can on all the related boards. That's kind of how I've always done it. And I don't know if that's the best way, but it seemed to work for us.
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A
Well, I think that's how you wrap that up is exactly the best way. And I think there's a lot of people searching for, quote, unquote, the right strategy. And what I'm hearing from you is that you figured out the right strategy for your business. You know, the touch points that you need to have with Pinterest in order to make good decisions. And I will tell people all day long that is the best strategy to let your data guide you, to let the keywords guide you for your industry. Because it's very much unique to you because you're targeting a certain type of person, a type of searcher, and that's not what somebody else is searching. So even what you said about getting up in the morning, going through and pinning a few things, paying attention to patterns, that's the strategy right. Right there. And nobody could really come in and say, you should do this differently because you know it so well and you know the data and, you know, kind of these slight tweaks that you need to make. So I think your strategy sounds amazing because you're letting the data and what you know about your people really guide you through that.
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B
Yeah. And I think for every business, it's going to be different and everyone has different goals with their business. Someone that's selling product may have a completely different strategy. So it's. I think it is all about getting in there as an actual user, figuring out how that user is searching for your product or your website or recipes, whatever you're trying to promote, and then looking at the data. I agree completely.
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A
So we talked about the 14 years, almost 15 years that you've been on Pinterest. So you've seen a lot of iterations. And a couple weeks ago, they had Pinterest presents where they were very. Their messaging was a lot of like, I want to reintroduce you to Pinterest. We want you to, especially as ad retailers, we want you to spend ad dollars here. We know it's been tough, but we're ready for you. And what's your thoughts on Pinterest and how they're moving forward, integrating both shopping and content. Your perspective, really, as a content creator.
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B
I think it's tough because with, you know, I know bloggers are frustrated. They're seeing ads on their pins, but you have to make, I mean, they have to make money somehow. So I don't blame them for doing that. And I have ads on my website. It's just part of the game. And so I think for me, I just, I don't focus or stress too much on that. I just. I know I've talked with Pinterest recently, and I do know that they are listening to the creators more now than they ever have. And so I think that's positive feedback that they are trying to really listen, because I. I think they're realizing without their creators, there is no Pinterest. And we are the ones that are really funneling the content into their platform. And I think they are realizing that and they're wanting to work with us and help us grow. And so I think after a conversation last month with them, I. I feel positive about the future and where they're going. I'm excited to see where it's going next year.
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A
Yeah, I agree. I think it's one of those things where, as you said before, like, a platform has to iterate. Like, it has to grow, it has to change, it has to make money. So I think they're making wise decisions based on what they know about their data and about their business model. So I'm super curious, too. Have you ever waded into the waters of Pinterest ads for your business? Have you ever tested them out or have you strictly been just organic?
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B
I haven't. I've strictly been organic. And I think that's mainly because I'm not trying to sell a product. I've always worried if I pay for ads, it may kind of, I don't know, mess with my organic reach. So I just haven't tested it. But that's not to say I wouldn't test it in the future.
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A
Right. That makes sense. Okay, looking out, how close I have to ask, are you to 5 million followers?
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B
I don't know. I haven't looked in a while, honestly. Let's. Which.
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A
That actually gives you perspective about followers.
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B
I know. And I feel like it's probably my Internet's being slow. I don't think I'm super close yet. I feel like maybe by next year we'll see. I feel like this. The growth on followers is definitely a lot slower than it used to be, but hopefully next year I'll get there. I think that would be a good.
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A
Goal to reach if you had to tell somebody who's just starting out in business and they are looking around at all the platforms. Right. Because when you started in 2010, there was literally Twitter pinterest had just started Facebook. I don't even think Instagram had really come on the scene as even a marketing tool at that point. And now we have tons of different options, right? And we talk about email marketing and SEO and now we have TikTok. What would you tell them in regards to choosing Pinterest as a marketing tool for their business? Would you tell them to wade into the waters? Would you tell them to choose something else? Now that you've probably already explored all of those other platforms as well, what piece of advice would you give to them if they are just starting a content business in 2024?
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B
I would definitely recommend hopping on Pinterest. I feel like you have to look at it as a long term strategy. It's not going to give you the instant wins and the instant gratification that maybe going viral on a real on Instagram would or TikTok. But I was talking to a new blogger the other day and I told her, if you're already creating the content for your website, at the very least just hit pin image. At the very least, just get your image onto Pinterest. If you're already creating a video for Instagram or TikTok, at the very least, just upload that same video onto Pinterest. It's only going to take you one more minute, you know what I mean? And so at the very least, let's just get that content you've already created onto the platform. And then when you can start seeing data on what kind of content is already working and ranking, you can start really tapping into creating specific pin collages. And it really is so easy to do in Canva. I feel like there are free templates out there that you can drag and drop your images and then just upload them straight to Pinterest, that it really won't take you that much longer. And it's just a whole new set of audience to reach your content. And if you're wanting to get traffic to your website, I feel like it's one of the best ways long term with any social media platform. Facebook, you know that the traffic dies off after the post dies. So you know, it may take a day or two of traffic that you're sending traffic. Instagram, you may get a day of traffic. Pinterest, I am still getting hundreds of thousands of page views from pins that I pinned five years ago. And so it's just a really great strategy long term because you'll continue to reap the benefits year after year.
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A
Yeah, 100% agree that it is it's in that search and discovery. Right. That it's the, it's the not about you platform, which is really actually refreshing. Right. Whereas a lot of the other platforms, you have to spend so much of your energy to connect with the audience, to build your personal brand, to build these things. And Pinterest takes so much less time. So like you stated, the barrier to entry is very low. Just pin an image, like just get into that groove and then it will be really growing from there. You have that pin out there, it's going to be out there forever. You just never know when it's going to hit, which is pretty cool.
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B
Yeah. And it may take three months to hit, it may take six months to hit, it may take a year to hit. But it's cool to see that sometimes a pin. I, you know, I just saw in my analytics that something I pinned last year for Christmas is now taking off this year and all of a sudden it's getting traffic and building traction. So it's exciting to see and I think it's worth, it's definitely worth your time just hopping on, even if it's for a minute or two every day.
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A
Yeah, 100% agree. Okay, so where can people go to connect with you, to follow along with your journey? Kind of see you from, I guess the sidelines to kind of be encouraged, I would say, by your strategy, by what you're doing. Where can they go to connect with you or ask any follow up questions?
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B
Yeah, my Pinterest account is just I heart nap time and I'm iheart nap time on Instagram. That's probably the easiest place to reach me. And then my website is iheartnaptime.net yeah.
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A
Can you believe it? That when you started it's like nap time was a thing. And now I know my little guy.
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B
Was napping and that's how it all began.
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A
Right. And how old's your little guy now?
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He's. Well, my oldest guy turns 16, so this was, you know, he was a toddler when I, when it all began.
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A
It's crazy looking back, it is crazy too. And I think just like platforms change so much. We've changed so much. Our business changes and it's so important. Important to ebb and flow and pay attention to the platforms that you're using and why you're using them and all those kinds of things. So I definitely appreciate you taking the time to share your story with us today.
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B
Thanks for having me. It was awesome chatting with.