Generating Conversions from Cold Traffic

Summary

Simple Pin Podcast: Generating Conversions from Cold Traffic
Host: Kate Ahl
Guest: Dahmer Ju
Release Date: April 2, 2025

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Introduction

In the April 2, 2025 episode of the Simple Pin Podcast, host Kate Ahl delves deep into the intricacies of converting cold traffic into paying customers. Moving beyond traditional Pinterest marketing strategies, this episode features Dahmer Ju, a seasoned expert who transitioned from Pinterest management to specializing exclusively in conversion funnels. Together, they explore the critical elements that bridge the gap between driving traffic and generating substantial revenue.

Guest Background: Dahmer Ju

Dahmer Ju brings a unique perspective to the table, blending her extensive background in accounting with her passion for tech and marketing funnels. Initially an accountant for ten years, Dahmer found herself yearning for more dynamic and impactful work, leading her to the world of Pinterest marketing. However, it was her realization that traffic alone wasn't translating into profits that spurred her pivot to conversion strategy. Today, she operates damaju.com, focusing on optimizing funnels to maximize ROI for her clients.

The Shift from Pinterest Marketing to Conversion Strategy

Kate All opens the discussion by addressing the common misconception that Pinterest marketing alone can drive significant revenue. She emphasizes that marketing is just one facet of the business process.

Kate All [00:00]: "Marketing is just one part of the process. ... There was no way that this client could actually make money."

Dahmer Ju concurs, sharing her journey from Pinterest management to becoming a conversion specialist.

Dahmer Ju [06:49]: "I spent three weeks building a lead magnet that should have been like a paid, it could have been a low ticket paid offer... I was building my email list with no clue what I was doing."

Key Topics and Insights

1. Importance of Conversion Funnels

Dahmer Ju explains that without a properly structured conversion funnel, increased traffic from platforms like Pinterest does not translate to increased sales.

Dahmer Ju [06:52]: "I was a very hot lead... but more traffic does not necessarily result in more money."

2. Analyzing and Optimizing Client Websites

She highlights the necessity of auditing clients' websites to ensure all forms and sales mechanisms are functioning correctly.

Dahmer Ju [12:42]: "She had $0 from her website... her WooCommerce store wasn't going to do it."

3. Building an Effective Lead Magnet

Dahmer Ju underscores the value of a compelling lead magnet in building an email list, which is foundational for nurturing potential customers.

Dahmer Ju [18:09]: "If you are a service provider or I sell T-shirts, but you want to have a digital product or you want to have a funnel, start with a list building funnel."

4. Collaboration and Audience Building

The discussion extends to the power of collaboration in leveraging existing audiences to build one's own.

Kate All [24:38]: "There's a lot with collaboration... think of how you can serve them and think of how they can serve you."

5. Optimizing Websites for Cold Traffic

Dahmer Ju emphasizes designing websites to cater to visitors who are entirely unfamiliar with the brand, ensuring the messaging is clear and value-driven.

Dahmer Ju [26:36]: "Your website should really be from the lens of people who've never heard of you."

6. Subtle Marketing and Non-Salesy Promotion

She advises on integrating product mentions seamlessly within content to avoid appearing overly salesy while keeping offerings visible.

Dahmer Ju [39:26]: "Reminding people of what you have is not salesy. You just have to tell them."

Notable Quotes

• Kate All [00:00]: "Marketing is just one part of the process. ... There was no way that this client could actually make money."

• Dahmer Ju [06:52]: "I was a very hot lead... but more traffic does not necessarily result in more money."

• Kate All [24:38]: "There's a lot with collaboration... think of how you can serve them and think of how they can serve you."

• Dahmer Ju [26:36]: "Your website should really be from the lens of people who've never heard of you."

• Dahmer Ju [39:26]: "Reminding people of what you have is not salesy. You just have to tell them."

Case Study: From Zero to $100K

A pivotal moment in the episode is the discussion of a real-life client case where Dahmer Ju implemented a comprehensive funnel strategy. By optimizing the client's website, enhancing lead magnets, and conducting a virtual summit, Dahmer Ju was able to generate $100,000 in revenue for her client.

Dahmer Ju [24:38]: "With that summit, I made that person like a half a million dollars."

Practical Tips for List Building and Conversion

1. Ensure All Forms Function Properly: Broken forms can severely hinder conversion rates.

2. Create Valuable Lead Magnets: Offer something of significant value to encourage visitors to subscribe to your email list.

3. Leverage Collaborations: Partner with peers to tap into their audiences and expand your reach.

4. Optimize for Cold Traffic: Design your website and funnels with the assumption that visitors are unfamiliar with your brand.

5. Subtle Product Mentions: Integrate mentions of your products or services naturally within your content to keep them top-of-mind without being pushy.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Kate All and Dahmer Ju emphasizing the importance of strategic planning and continuous optimization in converting cold traffic into revenue. Kate appreciates Dahmer Ju's insights and actionable advice, highlighting how these strategies can transform a business's marketing efforts into enjoyable and profitable endeavors.

Kate All [43:24]: "It just feels like something I can tackle and enjoy and then it will definitely make a big improvement in my business."

Dahmer Ju's parting advice encourages listeners to take immediate action by subtly integrating their offers into their marketing communications.

Dahmer Ju [39:25]: "You can start doing it with tomorrow's newsletter."

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Connect with Dahmer Ju

For listeners interested in implementing the strategies discussed, Dahmer Ju invites them to visit her website:

• Website: damaju.com
• Email List: Join to receive marketing strategies and stay updated on new trainings.
• Services: Explore her funnel optimization services tailored to various budgets and marketing needs.

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This episode of the Simple Pin Podcast serves as an invaluable resource for business owners aiming to bridge the gap between generating traffic and achieving meaningful conversions. By integrating Dahmer Ju's expert advice, listeners can enhance their marketing strategies to not only attract but also convert and retain customers effectively.

Transcript

[Kate All]

Hey there and welcome back to another episode of the Simple Pen podcast. If you have not picked up on it by now, we have been spending the last couple of episodes talking about conversions and the biggest reason we've been talking about this is because I believe that marketing is just one part of the process. Right? And so many people put emphasis on I'm going to do Pinterest marketing for XYZ amount of time and I'm going to make this much money. In fact, my guest in this episode today talks about her work with previous Pinterest clients wanting an ROI on her services. But when she pressed a little bit harder, what she realized was that these clients didn't have any conversion funnels set up. There was no way that this client could actually make money. And so she began to get super investigative about building funnels, building in ways that you could convert people to pay you for your products. And the business that she has today is now fully running. She's no longer doing Pinterest marketing, but now she's full on deep into conversions. And that is Dahmer Ju. I am so excited to have her here today. We have seen each other in circles over the years. We have both obviously done Pinterest marketing, but I really wanted her to share her story about how she got into this work and also why she's so passionate about conversions. We also want to touch on this whole idea of warm versus Cold because a phrase that I use on this podcast, if you haven't heard it by now, it is that Pinterest users don't really care about you, they care about themselves. They are interested in finding a solution to their problem, whether paid or non paid and you have the solution. And so how can you help them become a part of your community? Purchase your products or just simply follow along on your your journey, your story to where they can eventually purchase something from you and you can make money. If you are at all interested in helping us manage your Pinterest account while you focus on those conversion metrics, especially after you listen to this episode. I know I walked away with like 15 different ideas then we would love to support you. Our team is ready to help you figure out what service fits your budget, fits your time frame and fits your marketing needs. Simply scroll down below you will see simplepinmedia.com services. You can book a call with us and if you're going to book a call, please join us on that call and we will help you figure out what is your next best step when it comes to Pinterest marketing. With that let's dive into my interview with Dama.

[Dahmer Ju]

You're listening to the Simple Pen podcast, Pinterest. For business advice that goes down smooth and easy, here's your host, Kate All.

[Kate All]

Dama, welcome to the Simplepen podcast.

[Dahmer Ju]

Yay. Thank you for having me.

[Kate All]

I am so excited to chat with you and as evidence of our long lead up to hitting record. But I want to start with your about page because I love that it says what dreams are made of. And it's the first place I actually went when I was trying to prepare for this episode. And it's so beautiful. And I actually think what's interesting is I have started to think about our about page recently. I've heard stats over the years. People say the number one place people go is your about page if they don't know who you are or what you do. So I want to start there. When you began to build your about page, what did you have in mind as you were building it?

[Dahmer Ju]

Okay, so I'm of two minds. It's so funny that you said that's the first place you go. I never click about pages. My grandmother used to have this saying, like, and it's probably all grandmothers, like, tell me who you, who you spend time with, and I'll tell you who you are. Tell me who your friends are, and I'll tell you who are you, where you are. I'm like, tell me your offers and I'll tell you who you are. And if you're something I want to refer to, if I want to buy, I want to have a resource. If I want to collaborate with talk offers to me. So when I go to someone's website, the first thing I look at is like, what are you. What do you want to sell me? What are you interested? What do you have to sell? And that's the same thing I do. When I get on someone's email list when there are no links to click, I'm just like, what fresh boredom is this? Like, they're not even telling me what to do. So I'm a weirdo because I'm a funnel strategist. I look at sales, I want to see sales pages. Like, really, I want to see sales pages. But.

[Kate All]

And do you. Do you think that you're. You do that both? Like, you know, sometimes we have our business lens, sometimes we have our consumer lens. And you just do that all the time, whether or not you're buying, like, face cream or whether you're buying a course?

[Dahmer Ju]

Yeah.

[Kate All]

Interesting.

[Dahmer Ju]

All the time. I want to know. I think Because I'm such a marketing junkie, I would like to know. And so as a person. So, by the way, like, let me back up a little bit. Yeah, I do affiliate marketing, and I create and I do a lot of collaborations. So I'm always looking whenever someone has said something on threads or done something or posted something that's got my interest, and I'm creeping their site. I don't go to their about page. I want to know what your offers are. I want to know, are you. Do you. Are you someone who I need, like, I need to learn from? Are you someone that I could potentially refer to, like you're teaching a thing that I don't care to teach, but I would love to refer to? Or are you someone who I just think you're interesting and maybe we should collaborate or maybe I should find a way. Like, I'm interested in you, and I haven't sent the first dm, right. So let me go creep really quick so I don't walk into the room being oblivious to what you do. And so I think there's a lot you can tell about people's offers by about. About who, what they like about their business based on their offers. And it's just interesting to me. So I always want to know first from. From the everything lens. Maybe I'll be a customer. Maybe I'll be a referral partner. Maybe you're just, like, fodder for my new biz bestie or something.

[Kate All]

Interesting. Okay. I'm already getting the wheels turning, so you touched on this a little bit, but let's kind of go back in your story a little bit. You have history with Pinterest. You did Pinterest marketing for a little bit. You're an accounting major. You definitely have this, like, love of tech and this love of funnels, this love of how things function. So for this podcast specifically, I love that you have history with Pinterest, and I love that you have a love of conversions. So kind of walk us through a little bit of that. So. So you did Pinterest, you did accounting, you did Pinterest, and now you're into conversions.

[Dahmer Ju]

Yeah.

[Kate All]

How did one flow into the other?

[Dahmer Ju]

Yeah, so I went to school. When I was in school, I was the first kid in my family, in all of my extended family, all the cousins, all the. Everybody to go. So family of immigrants, and I was the first one to go to college. My older. My brother, older brother, my older sister didn't want to. And I was the nerd. I was the bikorm. I Was the one who really fought to go to college. And so when I went, then I felt this internal pressure of like, I better choose a major that is like, good, good money or like, proves that it was good, a good decision that I went to school. So I happened to be graduating in 2008 during an economic recession, sucky time to graduate. And I chose accounting and finance. So I. My major was international business and finance because one wasn't enough, I guess. And so I chose that because I wanted something secure. And I also knew that my. The things that maybe made me the annoying younger sister, the bossiness, the organization, the planning, the things that maybe perhaps were annoying were strategic assets. Like, I just knew, like, I was meant to be in business. I had a feeling about that. And I wanted management. And I chose accounting for financial stability. So I worked as an accountant for 10 years from like the lowest level as and then up to a fund accountant right before I left. Bored out of my mind. Sorry, Rip, if any of my old bosses are hearing me, I hated it. I found accounting very boring because all I did was make sure the data was there. I didn't get to do the analysis. My whole life dream was like, can I at least become a financial analyst? Because I want to make data driven decisions. And I had this, like, desire for it. And it was never going to be like, it just was maybe 10 years, 10 more years down the line, maybe financial analysts. So, um, my husband and I were not feeling fulfilled in our careers. We, our kids, our friends were having babies and buying houses, and neither of those things were appealing to us. We both had lived abroad before, individually. So we sold all of our stuff, quit our jobs and sublet our apartment, Loaded up two boxes, two suitcases, an espresso machine, and my dog and moved to Mexico. We went to Central America for a year and were volunteering. And then while we were there, I was looking for I want to stay longer. And that's how I kind of got sucked into maybe Pinterest as a side hustle. So I bought a course. It was a group program. I now see that in hindsight, I very much got into the funnel. I was a very hot lead. I was asking questions like, I was all clicking, and then I didn't purchase because I was worried about spending 800 bucks. And so my husband was like, just, if you're going to do the work, do the thing, buy it. We'll make. We'll make do. And I was like, okay. So I bought it and then within weeks had made back my investment and found that I thought, like, oh, my gosh, this is what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. And what it was, what I was feeling was entrepreneurship. I like Pinterest a ton. And yet I wanted the investigative. I was still feeling. I was creating pin designs and I was writing pin copy and I was scheduling, and the organizational part of me was satisfied. But the investigative, problem solving, innovative side of my brain was again, yet again, through a career pivot, unstimulated. And so I started having clients saying, well, okay, well, what's the ROI on Pinterest management? And they wanted me to defend why they were paying me. And I'm like, well, the stats, I'm bringing you traffic, right? And they basically were like, yeah, but I'm not making more money. And in the back of my mind, I was like, that's not on me. So what it ended up being is more traffic does not make, not necessarily result in more money. Right. I know you've said that on the show a million times. But my customers all or my clients all needed to be told at one on one. So I started pivoting into funnels. And why aren't you making money? What solutions do you have in, like, in set up? And they either had none or some, or it's just like a dubsado form. And I'm like, this is not enough. So anyway, that investigative analyst, research, problem solving side finally started to come alive. And I was like, oh, funnels. Ooh, tech. Ooh, automation. I like this. I like all of this. And that's when it just clicked. So that clicked In, I don't know, 20. I pitched my first Pinterest client, a Funnel build in 2020, in 2019, and then really fully pivoted in 2020 to funnels. And it's been six years or five years, and I haven't looked back.

[Kate All]

Well, and I love that you have that connection for. Yes, the things that we have heard here over and over of why am I not making money? What's the ROI on this? And yeah, we've told our clients the same thing that, like, we're going to bring them to your doorstep, but it's your job to open the door and invite them inside, have them have a seat, makes them a drink, like all of these things. And we found that that is such a barrier for people. In fact, that's why I've been kind of going through this series of talking with people who specialize in conversions, who get jacked about, because these are things that actually grow our Business. These are things that take our marketing pieces and really level them up to the next level. But it feels like there is a barrier for people. So even when we go back to them, and I'm sure you heard this a ton of times, when you're working with your clients, you would give them ideas, and it would almost be like a blank stare. Like, I don't know the words that you just used. I don't know even how to wrap my brain around what a funnel is. I don't even know how to wrap my brain around that. So let's kind of start there. Let's talk about your first client. Obviously, you don't have to name names or anything, but that first person that you saw potential in, you saw, okay, you're getting traffic from Pinterest. I can take you to the next level. Tell me a little bit about where your brain went that you started, like, beginning to calculate a plan for them.

[Dahmer Ju]

Yeah. So this person, they either had no idea what I was talking about when I said, like, how are you turning them into customers? Or they would say, I know, I know, I need a funnel. And then they would be like that. That would be the end of the story. And so I'd ask them, well, what did you have in mind? And they're like, well, a funnel. Like, I need a funnel. And I'm just like, oh, okay. So, okay, let's start from the beginning. So with this client, I had probably four or five clients at this point. Pinterest Management clients. I was busy. I was booked out. I liked it. And I had a really good synergy with this particular client. She also had a spirit of adventure and wanting and, like, really wanting to grow this online side of her business so she could do less of the done for you work. But she wanted to know roi. And I'm like, I sent my report. Like, the traffic, the clicks are, you know? And she's just like, yeah, but I'm not making any more money. And so I was like, well, let's analyze. Like, okay, are the tags correct? Like, well, what are you selling? And she's like, well, I have a woocommerce store. And I was like, okay, what's in there? And she's like, well, like a tote bag. And I'm like, okay, okay, well, what else, you know, can we do? And so we started talking about she. And then this is when I started really poking around. This woman looked at me dead in the face on Zoom, making $0 from her website, looked me dead in the face and said, I would like to get to 50k months. Right on.

[Kate All]

Would.

[Dahmer Ju]

Yeah. I mean, who wouldn't, right?

[Kate All]

Right.

[Dahmer Ju]

But she looked me dead in the face and said, I would like to make 60k. I mean, 50k months, that's my goal. That's my goal. And I'm just like, baby girl. Yeah, you have what? You know. And so immediately my brain starts dialing backwards. I just, you know, even though this is 2019 and I was really just getting my toes dipped in funnels, I knew about them, I had learned, but, like, I had not taken any formal training, I had never built one. And so immediately my brain starts going backwards. Well, you need volume, you need high ticket, and you need both. You need an offer, you need this, you need that, you need this, you need that. So it's like, well, what's the end result? And this is something I walk through with clients all the time. They tell me I need a funnel or I'll meet people at a conference and they go, oh, I know I need a funnel. And I'm just like, for what? And then they get mad or they get freaked out. And I'm like, I don't mean that to be controversial. I just mean, with what end? And they're like, passive income. And I'm like, like what? And they're like, you know, and ultimately what we always come down to is you and I run businesses so that we can pay our mortgage or our rent, buy groceries, put gas in the car, maybe take a trip every now and then so we can have an income. Right? And they're like, yes. I'm like, okay. And you're a service provider, so that's. But it's not enough for you. You want something else. You're feeling the yin towards something else. So what is that like? And so I really kind of have to walk it back to fundamen. So this woman was a service provider making a good living, but wanted the passive. She wanted to spend time with her kids, she wanted more impact on a wider level, and she wanted to mentor and all these things. So I was like, okay, and you want 50k months. Hmm. Okay. So we really had to work it backwards from there. I thought, well, you're gonna need an offer, specifically a high ticket offer. And you're gonna need a big audience because it's hard to sell high ticket, period. If you wanna sell a $3,000 thing, guess what? It's hard no matter who you are. Yeah. How gifted and talented you are. Selling a three or five or six thousand dollars thing is hard. So hard. I had to walk it back there. And it always, always, always comes back to the offer at this point, doesn't even matter. It's the audience. Do you have an audience? Well, I have this many. I have 1500 Instagram followers. And I was like, okay, so do I. You know, I don't know. Like, yeah, cool. I mean, you could go viral for slipping and falling on your butt on a rainy day. And you know, somebody repost you repost it with a funny sound and you could followers or 10,000 followers from something silly, right? Like, no, we. Okay. And so the first thing I did was, okay, I'm gonna sit with that. And I hung up. I went and did another analysis of her website and I tested every form on her website. They weren't all working. Some of them went nowhere. Some of them went to an email list, which she never emailed. Links broken. The WooCommerce store wasn't like, gonna do it. Like, there was like, there was like, like I said, like a tote bag and like, I don't know what else. Anyway, also not going to do it. So I'm just like, I see you had. You're not doing the work and you're not cultivating the audience. So it always goes back. It starts with that. So if you ever are thinking, I'm a service provider or I sell T shirts, but I want to have a digital product or I want to have a funnel, start with a list building funnel. Start with even just a form on your website that says, you know, name and email address and stay in touch. But please, for the love of lattes, don't say stay in touch. Say something compelling. So I'll give you an example from my website. I don't say get on my email list. There's. I have freebies, right? But the. One of the biggest ways people get on my list is I have a line on my website that says, can I whisper my best marketing strategies to you on the regular. Cool. Hop on the list here and be the first to hear about new trainings. Must have tech, clever ways to leverage the tech you have and marketing strategies. I only share with my email list now. I want to sign up. Stay in touch, girl, I don't know you. I don't want to stay in touch.

[Kate All]

Yes. Yes. Okay. So many those there.

[Dahmer Ju]

So number one, do your forms work?

[Kate All]

Yes.

[Dahmer Ju]

And if those forms are working, are they compelling?

[Kate All]

Yeah. Okay, so before we get to 2 and 3, because I'm pretty sure there's probably a 2 and 3, I want to address like two things that you said, number one, is that when you actually ask people what they want or what these terms mean, a lot of people don't understand it. A lot of people have no reference. And what is in their mind are short clips of either webinars they've watched or Instagram stories they've seen, or ads that give you this message of, well, if you just do X, maybe it's have a website, you will make X dollars, which is way bigger than probably anybody will ever make besides, like one person. And so you, you get these terms, you get these stories in your head that like, oh, I just need to do this. Can't you just flip a switch and I'll make $50,000 overnight? But it's like you're pointing out to them, you haven't even looked at a simple workflow of your tech. It's all broken. So how do you just expect people to magically appear and say, here's all my money, when you don't even have a way for them to connect with you? And to your point, you have this really bland language of stay in touch. But I think you've identified problem number one. Where people are at with their struggling, when they are struggling with conversions, is that they don't really know what that means. They don't have any understanding of why they're doing it. It's just everybody else's business story. If that. If you will. Like, oh, I heard so and so made XYZ on her webinar launch, Amy.

[Dahmer Ju]

Keys and the Jenna KS said X, Y and Z. So, yes.

[Kate All]

So I'm gonna do it.

[Dahmer Ju]

I want a funnel that makes me $10,000 a month. Like, or I want this, I want that. And it's just like. And far off that more often than anything, they want a funnel, they want a digital product, but they're not thinking about for to what, what to what ends. Right, to what ends. And specifically, not just the money, but like, what. What is it that you bring to the equation? Because anybody can walk up and say, I want to make $50,000 a month. But like, okay, well, what do you bring to it? Because there's two sides to everything on marketing. I'm saying, can I tell you my best strategies and my secrets and must have tech this. What's in it for you? But what's in it for me is you get on my email list, I said plain as day on this form, must have tech. Read affiliate marketing. I said, upcoming new trainings. Read paid workshops and digital products. Like, I'm telling you Very transparently what's in it for me and also what's in it for you? But I'm making, you know what I mean? Like, so there's, I think there's this duality with marketing is people think about, well, I want passive income. What does that mean? What is the mechanism? Do we just want to like, you know, go on the dark web and sell credit, steal credit cards? Or do you want to deliver a service or a value? You know, what is it that you're passionate about? So anyway, there's, there's so much to unpack. But yes, it starts with building an audience. And even if you don't know why you're building an audience. I built my email list with no clue what I was doing. The first funnel I ever built was mine. I'm going to always practice in my own business. And I had no idea really what I was doing. I just was like, I'm gonna start an email list, but I'm gonna do it strategically. Like I don't do anything halsy. So I'm gonna go hard on this. I spent three weeks building a lead magnet that should have been like a paid, it could have been a low ticket paid offer. Like for example. Right. I'll tell you what it was, Kate, because it's Pinterest, I think you'll get it. So I'm this brand new newbie Pinterest manager. No one's heard of me. My lead magnet was, this is pre AI everybody. So I actually had to do the work and think. But it was, it was, it was a playbook that had 20 different niches that people advertise on Pinterest with board, with board ideas for them because people like. So it was a book, it was like an ebook, a canva PDF that had like a hundred different board ideas broken down by 20 different niches. So food blogger, wedding photographer, newborn photographer, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't even remember. This is so like 2018 or whatever. But, and I, that could, that would easily could have been like a $10 digital product, but I made it for free and I spent a lot of time and research on it. I did keyword research for 20 something different niches because I was of the mind that your lead magnet should be really, really valuable. So I grew my email list to like a thousand really quickly because one, I, I had a really good lead magnet and two, because I was pretty strategic about collaborations, I just started speaking that class. I'm jumping ahead, but can I tell you. No, no, go for it. Yeah. So I started thinking about, like, I want 50k months. And then. And my brain just did the math. She needs a low, high ticket offer and she needs audience and she needs a nurture mechanism. That means to me, email lists, that means a freebie on the front end of that email list. That means consistent newsletters that show that have value but also are building interest in a higher ticket paid offer. And how do we get the volume? I don't want to do this with ads because this client did not like spending money. So what I envisioned is we're going to do a virtual summit. And the timing on this, honestly, it was Chef's kiss. It was July 2020. Oh, pervice.

[Kate All]

Everybody was doing that. Just the best wouldn't work right now.

[Dahmer Ju]

And. And actually we were planning it before Pandemic. So it was like. And I think it was like May or June of 2020. So it was like near the beginning of Pandemic, but we already had boots on the ground because I was like, I think you should do this. So essentially I came back to her and said, here's what you're going to do. You're going to create a high ticket offer. We're going to qualify leads, but you know this mechanism, but you need volume first. So here's what you're going to do. We're going to turn this like. She had this amazing blog post on her website that was like 2,000 like words. We're gonna turn this into a lead magnet and we're gonna really make it beautiful and high value. That'll be your lead magnet. You're gonna start growing your list with that. And then you're gonna host a summit. And we're gonna borrow, beg, borrow and steal everyone else's audiences that are your peers. And we built her an email list of 12,000.

[Kate All]

Wow.

[Dahmer Ju]

With that summit. I made her $100,000 with that summit. And you know, things just started clicking. It just. It all went from there. But I had to think about, how do I get this woman into 50k months? And I. It's. Yeah. So anyway, long story.

[Kate All]

Did it work?

[Dahmer Ju]

Heck yeah, it worked okay. I made that.

[Kate All]

I hope when she had her first unique months, she was like, you're magic.

[Dahmer Ju]

And I definitely made that person like a half a million dollars. Yeah. And then the other thing I was going to say just on my own lead magnet journey is I was building my own lead magnet funnel at that point. And I offered to speak at her summit about Pinterest. And she was like, that would be great. Boom. 50100 people on my email list.

[Kate All]

That is amazing.

[Dahmer Ju]

It's.

[Kate All]

There's a lot with collaboration, and I'm actually glad you went to that point because I think there's so much we can do. I love that you use the phrase beg, borrow and steal from other audiences. And we can partner and we can collaborate. And when you do that too, there's. When you have good reciprocity, you will grow because you are both investing in each other's business. I find that when you are just thinking about yourself or the other person is just thinking about them, it grows, but not as well. Right. Like, you just have to have that component there. So I just want to make sure. I say that when you are thinking of collaboration, like, think of how you can serve them and think of how they can serve you. Like, work together. But the thing that I want to call out in this is that you're kind of working with this, like, warm audience, right? They're. There's a connection. It's like if you and I were to meet at a party and I had a friend and I introduced you to this friend. There's a connection, right? And I often say that Pinterest is the cold audience. They don't know you. They don't care about you. They have no previous reference to you. So do you think when you are beginning to set up conversions, you have to view those audiences differently or not? Or do you just look at a conversion as a conversion?

[Dahmer Ju]

Yeah, you do. You need to do the groundwork a little bit when people are coming to your website. So sort of bringing it back to my website, I positioned it as. It's literally my name. It's damaju.com. so I'm. There's no brand name. Like, I am she. She is me. Right? So it's Dharmajoo.com. but you might have found me, you know, from some spicy thing I said on threads or some summit presentation. Like, you don't even remember my name, but you remember the presentation or whatever you clicked in my website. So the whole approach of my website, the way that I wrote the copy, is for to bridge that gap between the people who've heard of me and the people who've never heard of me. If I'm going to optimize my website for anything, it's for the people who've never heard of me. Your website is a business card that you know, right? Like, people will go and creep on it all the time. And that's great. That's what it's there for. So the Website should really be from the lens of people who've never heard of you. So you asked me earlier about my about page. My about page is like not about me. I'm adamant about. About pages are not about you. You're not on my website. Like, if you want to learn like everything you can learn about me, like maybe you would go to my Wikipedia page. That's about me. My about page is about you. And how can I help you? Or why are my offers or what I teach or what I say, my blog post, my YouTube channel, whatever. Why is it relevant to you? So the biggest text on my about page literally has nothing to do with me. It's the best funnel hack I can teach you is this. Take the help. And then I talk about like, I talk about tech, I talk about funnels, I talk about their struggle. Point of like, well, I know I need a funnel, but what is it I know that I need? Like, I started to set up a funnel, but like, ugh, automations tech stress. So I really make the about the about pages not about me. And like what my favorite latte is or where I was born. Yeah, it's not about the about page is not about you, it's about what can I help you with. So yeah, there's a little paragraph like my bio, but a lot of it is about what I can do for you. And so that being said, yeah, the whole website is designed for cold traffic. If you've never heard of me. The design is meant to be arresting and engaging and memorable. The copy is meant to be familiar, yet not overly familiar. So it's casual and approachable. But like, I'm not talking to you. Like you know me, right? I'm not assuming you know what I do. I'm assuming you maybe have heard of me or just because of something I said on Pinterest or on threads or on Instagram or whatever. But it's about you. So I, I really believe that you should have your website optimized. Overly familiar can be IG stories maybe. People tend to only see the stories of the people they follow. Really familiar could be for email, but website you need to be optimizing for cold traffic. It's not about, yeah, they don't know you. Assume they don't know you.

[Kate All]

Yeah, I, for some reason this has always been a struggle for me with my marketing is to go to that place of they don't know me. And I don't think it's because I am like prideful or I think I'm awesome. It's just because I always assume that if somebody's finding me they care about or they have come in contact with something that I've done. But I think as you're framing this up and as I spent some time on your website, I agree. That's exactly the feeling that I had. Like I didn't, there weren't things I had to figure out. It didn't feel like you had assumptions besides the one that I loved, which was the take the help piece about tech because you know that most everybody sees tech and they run for the hills and they're like, I'm out of here. Like that's probably the number one thing that stops people from building their funnels because it feels so overwhelming and they struggle with hiring. But there are, you know, people that can help them. It doesn't have to be a hundred thousand dollar tech build, right? It can be way less. But I think I do struggle with that Instagram story perspective. And I'm wondering for someone like me, what would you say to me to like keep in my frame of reference at all times to like ground you back to that thing of when I'm going through my website, when I'm updating copy, Think about X, Y, Z. Is there anything that you tell your students or that you have in your brain to kind of keep that always grounding you?

[Dahmer Ju]

Yeah, I mean I, and to be really blunt, I would just say we, we are small fish in a massive pond. I would assume they don't know you. Just assume they don't know you. A quick recap. And I use this actually as a selling strategy all the time. Not just as a like value or an authority strategy, but I use this as a selling strategy all the time where it's like I use asides in my copy. Like for example, on, on my about page I talked a little bit about like in the bio section I talked about my journey, how I went from service provider to building to going to strictly like one to many digital products. And I say I was sitting on a gold mine of an idea. Sneak peek at her here so people can click like go ahead and click away to my other website because I have a whole nother brand that I run, ThriveCart Template Shop. Go look at that. Go look at what I built. Go look at that. And so I, I use it as an aside in copy all the time. Like so I might say if I'm. This is completely random but like if I'm talking in emails and I happen to mention the word Google Docs, I have this nine dollar training called on brand fillable workbooks. The thing is like jet powered, it's sold thousands. I've never run ads to it don't need to. It makes sales every day. It just is a little engine that could. Because people love this training. And so anytime I mentioned the word Google Doc, I'll just say, by the way, have you seen this? You know, like by the way, you know, and I'll just by the way, like I literally just did right now with you. I do it on podcasts all the time, naturally. Because why use Nike or Adidas or some disconnected brand as a reference. I'll just use mine, right? I don't wear Nike or Adidas hoodies. I wear hoodies that have my logo on them. And I do the same thing as I'm on podcasts or I'm writing copy. Like by the way, have you seen this, like this crazy little or this viral little nine dollar thing? And I reference it all the time. So assume I kind of even people on my email list. Yeah, I assume they've never seen that training. Even though I won't shut up about it. People won't shut up about it. I've talked about it a billion times. I've linked to it literally 11 million times on brand fillable workbooks. Linked to it like so crazy amount. And yet I still treat every subscriber as they have a familiarity with me, but they don't know everything I do. And I also am one of those people who's like, I don't have a signature program that opens twice a year and this is like all I do. I have a million offers and I feel adrenaline and joy and satisfaction in putting out lots of new offers. So I can't assume that everybody knows what I do. So I'm constantly referencing and treating it as by the way, you know, like, or if I talk about my funnel, like, oh yeah. And so I threw it in my funnel software parentheses, have you checked out ThriveCart or did you know I sell ThriveCart templates like, because I don't know if they know me and I'd rather say it in a non salesy but by the way kind of way that feels approachable and friendly and yet if you click over there and you're like, well, I didn't even know thrivecart could have beautiful long form optimized sales pages. Smash the buy button. Right? Like, yeah, let me. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna, not. I'm gonna stay yapping about my offers. But in a In a sort of subtle way. So if, enter if ever. Rule of thumb, assume they don't know you, but don't dumb it down by giving them a long backstory. How many times have I said my bio to my email list? Any subscriber has only ever gotten it once on their first, like email with me. And even so, if they like, I'm not a big believer in welcome sequences. Personally, I know Wild Funnel strategist, but I don't believe in them. But if somebody buys something from me, they might get a paragraph about what I do and then they never have to read that bio again. So I don't dumb it down. I don't tell my whole, like, I was an accountant and quit my job. But if I'm talking about data, then I'll mention, you know, like, as you know or as you may not know. Usually I'll say, as you may not know, I used to be an accountant or I spent a decade in a cubicle crunching numbers in corporate America as an accountant. So data analytics is my jam. And so I'll add little snippets, but I don't hit them over the head with a big bio.

[Kate All]

I mean, I already, I have so many ideas going through my head and I think I, I just, I did so much assuming, you know what assuming does. So it's not necessarily worked out for me well. But I think what I'm hearing from this that even I need to take away is the sharing about your offers. I think the pushback to that is always people don't want to come across too salesy. They don't want to talk about it all the time. But if you think of it as serving them where they're at and with the needs that they have, it's not, it's not just talking about it all the time, it's sharing about a tool that's really helpful for them. And so I would say that's number one and then number two, to start to begin to formulate a plan for tackling all of these things. That it's not just, okay, we're gonna listen to this episode and now you have 20 things added to your list and you're gonna do them all right away. It's like you have to see this as a year long process and even iterate on it as you're growing your business, changing it, because we all pivot, we all change, we all have things we need to do differently. But I can tell you right now, there's a few things I would change almost immediately. About what I'm doing to go back to the drawing board of connecting with them and entering into their story. And I don't think I share too much of my story. Like, too much. I mean, there are times when I do, but I could probably even dial it back a little bit more. So that was really helpful.

[Dahmer Ju]

Well, and I guess if, if I want to give, I don't think you need to take 20 things away from this podcast. If one thing sparks with you, awesome. Yes. If you have. If nothing has sparked with you to this point, may I invite you, impel you, encourage you, simple pin like podcast listeners do this today. No one knows all the offers that you have. No one knows. I don't. Even if I've been on your list for six months, I don't know because I don't read every email, even if I watch every IG story, I don't know. I'm always amazed by what people have. So that's why I'm like, send me the sales emails. You're not going to sound too salesy if you're casually mentioning it. So I think of it like you said, selling as a service. If you've been banging your head against the wall fighting with making this canva beautiful thing you designed in canva PDF fillable and clickable girl, stop. Like, did you know that you could just do it in Google Docs? Can I just show you? It's only nine bucks. Like, that is a service to me. I'm saving you the hassle of having to do that. If you spend three months fighting and wrestling with the ThriveCart template, like with the, with a built in the free ThriveCart templates and you just want something better that comes with a million bonuses that really understands what you need. Here. Here's my template shop. Grab one. Right? And so I would hate to have somebody be on my list for a year and they have no idea that I had a Google Docs training or they had no clue that I have that I owned this whole other brand called Thrive Cart Tablet Shop. So you don't have to do a dedicated sales email to sell. Just if you take one takeaway today, the next time you write an email and any of it is remotely adjacent to one of your offers. So you guys still sell pin templates, right? Yep. So if you were talking about conversions, you could say, by the way, did you know you can conversion off? Like you can have conversion optimized Pinterest graphics and then just link to your templates. Just link to them. You don't even have to say buy here. Don't. Don't do that. Just say, by the way, did you know that we. Blah, blah, blah. Or, you know, sidebar, if you haven't seen them, they're over here. And I'm not even telling them to go click. I'm just saying. I'm just letting you know. I'm just. Yeah, it's on the. I'm going to set this on the desk next to you. If you want it, there's a butter chocolate. I'm not telling you to eat it, but it's there if you want it. Because too often people don't know. And that's the thing with digital businesses. They can't walk into my store, shop my storefront and browse around. They have to. I have to tell them what my offers are. And it's not salesy if all you're doing is reminding them of a thing you have because then they've already bought it. They're like, oh, snap, Kate does have that. And I swear I have them.

[Kate All]

Let me go.

[Dahmer Ju]

You know what? Let me. Half of the time I do this, people are just being reminded that they have this thing or they never finished it or they wanted to go do X, Y and Z. And the other half, if they don't have it, then they're like, oh, you know what? I've been to pick that up. I'm going to grab it. Yeah. So you. It's not salesy. I promise you. Reminding people of what you have is not salesy. You go into a long sales sequence or sales email maybe, but like, if you're just mentioning it and babe, throw a link on that, you're not salesy at all. It's a service. Service.

[Kate All]

Oh, I love it.

[Dahmer Ju]

I emphatically recommend this one thing. You can start doing it with tomorrow's newsletter.

[Kate All]

Great tip. I feel like.

[Dahmer Ju]

There we go.

[Kate All]

Mind trap. We're at the end. Okay, Dhamma. Where can people go to connect with you, see what you're doing? Because I know. I want to investigate it and watch and see and model and get some ideas.

[Dahmer Ju]

So, so, so I'm all about funnels and I'm all about tech. And that might seem like I just teach tech or I just teach funnels. It's hilarious that when you go on my website, you're not going to find a funnels 101 course. I don't sell that. I don't do generic teaching or strategy. I do really laser focused. And my secret sauce is the magic between the tech and the Marketing. So using the tech that you have, using it to the most, squeezing all that juice out of it to get the most bent man marketing bang for your buck. So I'm kind of famous for having random little strategic hacks that actually can help you make more money. Like the Google Doc thing, like this subtle selling thing. I took this concept and turned it into a whole thing called 4x4 Footers. It's like a. It's basically in the broad strokes, it's an email marketing training. I'm not teaching about forms, I don't teach about campaigns, I'm not teaching about sequences, automations. Literally. It's one specific thing. You're a strategic email footer. And this one thing, I just got off a call with a one on one client yesterday and she said that implementing that one strategy, that she grabbed templates and got the strategy for me, set it up in an afternoon, that it doubled her click rates, that her click rates used to be 0.2% and now she's seeing 1.1% click rates. Wow. New Mungus jump. Just by implementing this sort of lazy strategy that you can do with pretty much any email service provider. So I would say that's really my secret sauce. So you can head to damaju.com and get on the list there, fill out the form that says get on. You know, come, come hang with me. Let me teach you marketing things. I will never shy away from telling you about my offers, but I'm big on consent based marketing. So if you're just like going through, there's a header or a bar at the top of my emails that says is life lifing too hard? Tap here to pause emails from me for 30 days. That's an automation that I set up once because sometimes people don't want to unsubscribe. They just need a break. Like for example, I'm going to be traveling to be a caretaker for a family member's surgery. Do I want to be keeping up with my inbox? No. Would I love to take a break from all of it for 30 days? Yeah, I'd love to, but I'm as. I know I'm like the only person who offers this. Like, take a breather.

[Kate All]

Yeah.

[Dahmer Ju]

So yeah, I'm big on consent based marketing. But yes, I will always lead with value and then give you a pitch at the end because I'm a sucker for a cta.

[Kate All]

Mm. I love all of that. Thank you so much for sharing all of this with us. Today we're gonna have links down in the show notes, but I just really appreciate your wisdom and your enthusiasm. I think that is the thing that people want to feel more of right now, just because everything feels like we're being so stretched thin that nothing can feel fun anymore, that it all feel like a drag. But even, you know, after you and I have been talking here, this feels like a fun project to work on. It doesn't feel labor intensive, but it feels like something I can tackle and enjoy and then it will definitely make a big improvement in my business. So thank you for that gift to me, and hopefully other listeners have that, too. So thanks so much for joining me.

[Dahmer Ju]

Yeah, thanks for having me. This is fun.