← Simple Pin Podcast: Simple ways to boost your business using Pinterest
Simple Pin Podcast: Simple ways to boost your business using Pinterest
Giving Up Social Media..but maybe not Pinterest
00:29:26
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- [00:00]
A
Okay, listen up. We are going to talk about giving up social media with my friend Kate Cordsmeyer, and we're going to talk about her story and how her business has not decreased as a result of giving up social media. But she did make an concerted effort and a decision to lean into Pinterest in these next couple of months. Now, this podcast was especially well timed for me and I told her this after we were off the air, that I have been feeling like social media has been creeping into my day like crazy. I will open the app when I get up in the morning. I will open the app when I'm bored. I will open the app before I go to bed. Instagram is my kryptonite. Like, it is really difficult for me. For some of you, that may be TikTok. For some of you, that may be Instagram or Facebook. So we have an honest discussion about what to do as a business owner when you are taught to believe that all of these platforms are integral to your growth. If you give up Instagram, TikTok or Facebook, your business will die. And what I appreciate about Kate's story is that she learned that that's just not the case. So I wanted to share this conversation with you because I hope that it would inspire you the way that it inspired me. Now, this does not mean I think everybody should give up social media, but there's one great takeaway about knowing whether or not it's working for you or not. In this episode, I really want you to pay attention that and I hope that it just gives you something to think about. And one important note, she's not giving up Pinterest because we don't see Pinterest as social media. It is an SEO valued tool. It is search and discovery. It is something that will bring cold new leads to your website. And I have said multiple times here, and I will say it again, it requires less and less time than any social media platform out there. It does still require time, but it's important to know it's not going to be as much time. If you are listening to the podcast and you are thinking, kate, I want to give up social media and I kind of also want to give up managing my Pinterest account. But I don't want to give up Pinterest in general. I just want to work on other things, then our team can help you. Our agency has been doing Pinterest marketing work for over 11 years. We've worked with all types of niches. Some you would be really surprised, but we have worked with a ton of different business and we want to work with yours. Whether it is a one time services service just to get you your account built or cleaned up or whether you need us for a console call. Whether it's non paid traffic or paid traffic through Pinterest ads or it's monthly management of your organic Pinterest marketing that would be non paid organization or to set up a Pinterest ad for you to run for a certain period of time or all year. We have clients that have been running paid ads with us for over 15 months. We have everything for you wherever you are at with your Pinterest marketing journey. All you need to do is click below and you will find all of our services@simplepin media.com services all right, let's dive into my interview with Kate Courtsmeyer.
- [03:28]
B
You're listening to the Simple Pen podcast Pinterest for business advice that goes down smooth and easy. Here's your host, Kate All.
- [03:43]
A
Kate Kurzmeier, welcome to the Simple Pin Podcast.
- [03:46]
B
I'm so glad to be here.
- [03:48]
A
Me too. I look around at social media and you hear so many people talking about the vitriol, the political unrest, the comments like it really is an ugly space to be. But match that with business owners who really think this is their only lifeline to grow their business. And you have this tension where people are saying, okay, I know that it's ugly, I know that it's not good for my mental health, I know all these things, but I am so afraid to jump ship on Instagram. And obviously now we see the unrest with TikTok or even Facebook because that will mean the end of my business. And you took that leap. And so I want to talk they I want to start there. Like what was that aha moment for you that you said I'm done, I'm done with social media to be this pillar in my business and I'm okay with that. Talk to me about that point.
- [04:47]
B
Yes, well, yes to all of the above that you just said. And I think I would just want to highlight real quick too that point of people feel like it's the only way and it is so not the only way. There are millions of ways to grow and maintain a profitable, sustainable business without ever posting on social media. And I always like to remind people that businesses existed before social media and they will continue to exist after and whatever the next iteration of chaos when technology comes along. So I, I just like to remind people like it's not the only path, it is not a necessary evil. And definitely I'm living proof. And I'm starting to see more and more people do the same thing and find the same thing. So for me, what was interesting is, I guess first I'll say I didn't decide to quit social media forever and just do it. I decided to take a break. And that break ended up turning into from like, I'm going to take the month of December 2021 off from social media. I just deleted the app from my phone and was like, I'm just done. I can share what got me to that point. But it wasn't going in with this permanent decision. It was just like a digital detox. And after 30 days I was like, dang, I feel so much better and my business hasn't been affected at all. Like, maybe it's too soon. I wonder what would happen if I did another 30 days. And it just kept turning into more and more time until all of a sudden I was like, wow, I haven't posted in a year and I haven't downloaded the app again in a year. Like, I wasn't one of those people that said, like, I'm going to stop posting, but I'm still going to hang out there. I was just done 100% with being there at all. So didn't post, didn't scroll, didn't, you know, search for anything. Like, I was just done. No app on my phone, whatever. And once it was like, wow, my business is actually doing better without this. Thank. Then it sort of was like, okay, I think this is now a. A permanent decision. I'm using air quotes because I don't really think there's any permanent decisions in life. Like, this is what I'm doing for now, for the foreseeable future. And I reserve the right to change my mind. I can always go back if I need to, but that's not where I am right now. And for me, being really black and white about it was very helpful for my brain because I felt like when I. I hear a lot of people say this too when they talk to me about it. Like, well, I think I'm just going to be there less and I'm just going to post less. Just no pressure to post, you know, And I'm like, yeah, good luck with that. Because you're still always thinking about, should this be the thing I post? And what if I, okay, I'm. I'm just going to post once a week or once a month. And then you're obsessed with, well, how did that one post do? And if it didn't do well, then Maybe I need to post more and like, just get right back into that cycle. And for me it was about breaking the thought process of constant creation mode, constant comparison mode, worrying mode. Thinking about what my next post was going to be, I was like, I just want to be a hundred percent done. I'm either all in or all out.
- [08:09]
A
Well, and did you let your community know that you were going to be done? Was that something that you said, like, I'm going to take a break? Or did you just kind of walk out the back door for that break and then kind of shut the door behind you?
- [08:22]
B
Uhhuh, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I just was like, no, I. Because again, at first it was just like, I'm just gonna. I just need a break from this. And so, yeah, I just kind of slipped out quietly, I think, after, like, maybe in April of the following year. So, yeah, four or five months in, I did post a nine grid to my. My feed that was like, I'm done here and so this is where you can find me. So I guess I did somewhat announce it a few months in. And then after that though, like, I never looked back and I didn't even look to see, like, did people like that post? Did people like, what happened after? I just was like, I don't care. It's just, it's. For me, the nine grid was met. And it could be a one, like a one post that was just meant to say, hey, I'm still here. I'm still a business that can help you. I'm just not on Instagram anymore. So if you want to work with me, if you want to learn more, come over here where I'm hanging out on my website, on my podcast or wherever I was. And then, you know, so that if people were to search me because I knew I might not be on social, but millions of people still are. And I know a lot of people, before making a decision about who to work with, are going to look you up and then see, you know, oh, she hasn't posted in six months. She must like, and make some kind of conclusion. And I just wanted to have a little more control over the narrative.
- [09:51]
A
Yeah, we went with a three grid in that. And we'll link to. Actually you have a tutorial about how to do a 9 grid. So we'll link to that below in the show notes. But I think even for us, like the one post or the three, now we're a little bit on the edge, right. And I even just hearing what you're saying about making a clean break, I think is true because there is this temptation to go back in, to look at the numbers, to see what's happening. And for me, actually, I will say my number one thing is the comparison trap is I get other people's stuff coming through my feed, and even though I try to mute it, I try not to look at it, it infuses into my day, and then ultimately it results in a disruption to my work time, a disruption to my creativity, because I am thinking about these other people. I'm thinking about what they're doing or how I can be competitive or any of those kinds of things. And so I appreciate your. You just making a clean break to say, I'm not. I'm not going back for now, and you reserve the right to change it if that changes in the future. Like, you're not dependent on it. And I also want to highlight this because I think this is really important. When you left, we were also in the height of the COVID pandemic. I mean, December of 21, things were still really crazy. And it felt like there was so much online of all these different camps and all these different things that it did bring up. The toxicity during those couple years was just so intense that I even wonder if doing marketing for your business, even during that time, was actually even working because people couldn't see through all the other things. So therefore they weren't able to make good decisions because it was like so much happening in your brain at one.
- [11:40]
B
Time, a hundred percent. And that was one of the big reasons, you know, that led me to needing a break was just the toxicity of, like, the political conversations that were happening during that time. And, I mean, there was just so much misinformation being spread there. And it was sort of like, like, I have no judgment for anybody who stayed or continues to want to stay like you do you. For me, it just was like, this is such a misalignment with my values that I feel like to even be here as just a silent follower just feels like, wrong. And so I just really was like, I need to get away from this. And, you know, there was enough division already happening without social media kind of fueling that fire. And so I just was like, I. I gotta go.
- [12:32]
A
Yeah, 100%. So you make this leap. You take a break in December, you kind of officially put up the 9 grid in April. Were you scared at all as to what this would do to your business? Or had you already laid the foundation for your business to be okay despite not having this arm of marketing?
- [12:54]
B
Such a good question. I feel like I don't remember being scared. I remember feeling so free. Like, oh, my gosh, look like, look at how much space has opened up, even just mentally for me now that I'm not thinking about social media anymore. And then how much physical time opened up for me now that I'm not scrolling, now that I'm not working on my content, strategy for social and all that stuff. Like, I feel like freedom was more the feeling that I got. And I was in a place that I could feel that way because, yes, I had laid foundations. I felt like. I mean, one of the reasons it was really easy for me to leave was because despite all my best efforts and a ton of time and money, like, I've outsourced it, I've hired people to help me, I've hired. Never really worked for me. I never really saw a direct ROI of what I'm doing on social media and revenue or what I'm doing on social media and email list growth. It all just kind of felt like vanity metrics of, like, yeah, I can say, oh, I have X number of followers, but, like, I don't really care about that. I care about how much money I'm making in my business and, you know, and how I feel about my business. And so it was easy for me to leave or easier because I felt like it wasn't really working. But the thing that gets me is in all these conversations I've had in the years since, when I ask other people who say, oh, I could never leave or I couldn't do that, I go, well, is it working for you right now? And they're always like, no.
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A
Right.
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B
I've met, like, one person, Amy Porterfield. Only person who was like, yes, it is working for me. And she's the only one.
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A
Everyone else is like, partly because she's Amy Porterfield.
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B
Yeah, exactly. She's Amy Porterfield. And she has a whole team running, you know, running it for her. And. And if you look at her stuff, like, she. I mean, it's great, but she's posting a lot. And what I found is, like, the people, of course it works. For some people, everything works. I'm not saying, like, Instagram could never work for anybody, but what it takes to make it work, I was just.
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A
Not willing to do no. So let's talk about that. Your time frees up. Like, your mental clarity or your mental space frees up because you're not thinking about it, and then your time, because you're not investing the time over there, looking at it and actually Before I ask this question, I want to highlight the point that you just made is that I hear that too, from a lot of people. Even when it comes to Pinterest, people will say, oh, it's not working for me, or, oh, it is working for me. And I'll say to them, what part is working for you and how have you tracked what's working and not working?
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B
Yeah, how do you know?
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A
How do you know? Because it's really easy with especially a tool like Instagram or Facebook that has dopamine hits that can help you see, like, follower number, like number engagement. But you and I are thinking about conversions. What is converting to my email list, what is converting to a purchase? And if we can't directly tie those metrics to a conversion, then it is just taking up mental space and workspace. And so what did you do with this extra time now that you're not looking at social media? Which I. This conversation is really inspiring me at this time because we take Sundays off in our house, complete screen breaks. But I've thought, you know, I find myself on those days really tempted to open it up. It's like a default. It's like these things. And so you think about the other six days of the week, I am doing it. I am going to it. And this tallies up to hours and hours of time. So in your business, time, what did you put that time into if it's not on social media?
- [16:53]
B
Yeah, well, and this is the other thing that I find funny when I talk to people about this is everyone's like, but what are you doing? And I'm like, no, I'm doing the other things that you're also doing. I'm just not trying to do all of them at the same time. So people who are on social media, most people are not only using social media to grow their business, they're also using Pinterest, they're also using ads, they're also emailing their list. They're also blogging or podcasting, or they have a YouTube channel, or they're doing collaborations. And, like, so they're trying to do all these things, but they're just trying to do it all at once. And I was like, that's not effective or sustainable. So I'm just gonna pick, like, I kind of do these, like, I call em, sprints almost in my business, where I get really into one strategy and go all in on that for a while until I either get sick of it or it stops working, or I'm just ready for something new or whatever. So, I mean, it's been over three years since I've been off social media, so I've had different sprints of different things that I've tried. I'm about to start a Pinterest sprint with you, which I'm super excited about. But, like, I've done. Like last year I did had a big focus on bundles and summits, and so I grew my list by 6,000 people in six months by contributing to bundles and summits. And it was free list growth for me. I didn't have to pay anything. It was just contributing things I'd already created and having the system set up on the back end so that I could nurture those new leads that came in and get them to buy other things. So that's one of the things that's been really effective for me recently. But I've tried lots of different things, and SEO and email marketing are kind of my bread and butter, and I always fall back on those things, and they're always. I shouldn't even say fall back. They're just a part of my consistent strategy.
- [18:46]
A
Yeah, I love that you mentioned Pinterest, because I think a lot of people, I think most people listening, if they've listened to this podcast for a long time, they know that I've described it not as social media, but search and discovery. It's cold traffic. Traffic. It's not social media. And in fact, Pinterest has said, like, it's the thing that people don't give up in a social media detox. They keep it because they find that it contributes value to their life. And so the SEO value of, you know, Pinterest and then Google and YouTube being these traffic drivers, those do require more attention, they require more thinking, they require content. And they can often feel like you aren't doing anything because there's not that same, you know, hit from social media where, you know, especially on Pinterest, you will just be continuing to work at it and you're like, is it doing anything? And then you start to look at the metrics. So. So actually you and I had a conversation about Pinterest and you are part of our inner circle this round and kind of leaning into it. Did you include Pinterest in the beginning into social media? You were like, I, we're going to put this over here. And then what changed for you to see it in a new light?
- [19:59]
B
Yeah, so I, I didn't include Pinterest in social media. I've always thought of Pinterest as a search engine, and I think that One of the biggest differences for me between Pinterest and like Instagram or TikTok or something is that those apps are really designed to keep you on the app, whereas Pinterest, depending on what you're searching, is very designed to click through something and, and read an article or get more information or see the full picture or get the recipe, you know, like, yes, of course there's some more visual things that people are just pinning and never clicking through. But for me it felt like people are coming there searching for something, whereas people on Instagram. I mean, I'm sure the search is part of it sometimes, but I feel like it was more like, no, I'm already following my people and I'm just scrolling what's already there. So I felt like I was getting people, you know, at a hotter place. They were searching for what I have to offer rather than interrupting, trying to stop the scroll. So I didn't include Pinterest in that. However, I have not prioritized Pinterest in my business the last 5ish years because again, I've done things more in sprints and I felt like I'm one person. I've always had either a small team or like right now I have no team and it's just me and I can't do all the things at once. And so I was focusing on other things, knowing Pinterest will be there when I'm ready to come back to it, hopefully. And, and you know, we talked about this years ago when there was a lot of changes happening at Pinterest and I sort of take an approach sometimes of just like, I'm going to let the dust settle and then tell Ask Kate what I need to do.
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A
Yes.
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B
Once that's happened. So that's what I did. Well.
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A
And you have the unique advantage that you have had a business to consumer business that you had before with your website that you have sent, sold and use Pinterest for that. We worked with you at that time and now you have a business to business community. Right. So you see both angles and that is unique perspective that a lot of business coaches like yourself don't really have. Right. Because oftentimes they come with a perspective of just coaching business owners how to make decisions, but you have both. So I kind of want to talk about that. Like, how have you been able to leverage kind of these both sides to help your community work through wrestling out the decision of whether or not to give up social media or not or focus their efforts into marketing? I guess how do you, how do you bring those two in?
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B
Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, what's coming to me is that my approach to business is creating a life first business. And so it's almost like starting with the B2C piece and then having that drive the B2B piece. I don't know if I'm answering your question exactly, but that's sort of where my mind went of like. Well, yeah, because how you feel and what your mental health looks like in your emotional well being and how you're spending your time, like, those are all things that affect your business, I think, even more so than any strategic thing that you're doing. Um, and so, you know, I think leading with those values kind of allows me. I think that's kind of what I took root. And Revel was my previous blog and it was the health and wellness blog. And I think I took some of that and just like applied it to the B2B side. Did I understand your question?
- [23:34]
A
Yeah, you did. And to be truthful, I didn't frame it up super well because in my head I was also thinking two different things at the same time. But no, you got to the heart of it. And I think that is, that's such a great perspective to have as you coach other people, because people can come into your community and whether or not they're a business to business or business to consumer, you can give them the perspective of both of those experiences. And I think that's of such value when you are a coach is that to share what you've done, to share the decisions that you've made, I honestly think makes more of an impact. Instead of saying, well, you should do this or you should try this, whereas you can say, hey, I quit social media and here what, what happened, I can't guarantee it's going to be the same experience for you, but I can share with you what impact that made and how I felt about my business and all these other things. And I. I honestly think that's a big undervalued thing that we see when we either hire a coach or we want to join a community is look for the people who have done the thing you want to do. And so if you want to give up social media and you're really scared, start following Kate, start getting on her email list and start seeing what she's doing. Which actually leads me to this question. Are there a lot of people already in your community who have given up social media, or are they still wrestling it out and trying to figure out how to frame it up both for sure.
- [24:58]
B
I mean, a lot of people come to me and like will explicitly say I'm working with you because you're not on social. And it's like such a permission slip for them to see somebody else doing it and being successful without it. And there's a lot of people who still, like, no matter how many times we talk about it, are just like, I don't know, I just feel like I need to be there, but I hate it. And you know, and so I think it's going to take everybody in their own time to come to the decision that's right for them. And I certainly don't believe that it's. There's one path for everybody. So, you know, if, if you love social media and, or it's working for you, like by all means keep doing it. But if you'd like another path or another option or just to be able to rely on it less, I think I love being the like living example that you don't need it. That that is all just like it's just a myth is. I think that's what they want us to believe and they've done great job at marketing it that way, but it's not true.
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A
So yeah, yeah, I love that. So talk a little bit about the work that you're passionate about, the work that you're doing with your community and kind of what you hope in 2025 for your business. Like what are your, what are your dreams that you're dreaming into with your community and with your business overall? And you, it's just you, you don't have any team members. So tell me a little bit about what's happening for 2025.
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B
Yeah, well, one of the things that I have loved the most about having this kind of be part of my messaging now of like choosing a social free business, is that it? To me, it's less about the content of what, like it has to be social media free and more about you get to do business your way. And so I think that is more what I love leaning into. Like what I'm most passionate about is letting people choose. Like make your business personal. Like we're always taught that we can't do that or that there is only one way to do things or you know, like there's a right decision for everybody and it's just like there isn't and we're all working with different brains and different capacities and different preferences and all those things and you can design your business to truly work for you. So that's. That's what I really like to lean into. And so a lot of what we talk about, you know, even when people come, oh, I want to learn how to do business without social. We're not really talking about how to do it without social. We're just doing it without social. And like, so it's not even really like that is always a big part of the conversation. It's just like, well, let's just talk about what else we can be doing. And yeah. And now, yeah, it is just me. I know we've talked about this a lot, but I used to have five full time employees and you know, seasons change and things change. And right now I'm just in a season where I have a very low overhead light, low pressure business and it's feeling really good. And yeah, I'm just kind of leaning into that simplicity and I keep coming back to that word just light. Like things just feel light and easy and like I'm just doing what I want to do because I want to do it and not because somebody says I should or I need to.
- [28:26]
A
I love that. Well, I think as you said light in low maintenance business, there's a lot of people who might be really intrigued by that. So where can people go to connect with you? And of course we'll put all the links below. But yeah, where can they go?
- [28:41]
B
Well, of course I'm not on social media, but if you want to see my 9 grid, you can go to Success with Soul on Instagram, but I am not there. And so my website is successwithsoul co. And on there we've got lots of different freebies and ways that you can work with us and learn more. And we do have a free challenge about how to grow without social media. So that's a great place to start. If this conversation was intriguing to you, I love it.
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A
Well, Kate Kurtzmeier, thank you so much for joining me on today's podcast.
- [29:12]
B
Thanks for having me.