Pinterest Q&A with Bjork Ostrom (Bonus Episode)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Simple Pin Podcast Episode - "Pinterest Q&A with Bjork Ostrom (Bonus Episode)"

Introduction

In this bonus episode of the Simple Pin Podcast, host Kate Ahl engages in an insightful conversation with Bjork Ostrom, the owner of Food Blogger Pro. Released on January 15, 2025, this episode delves into the evolving landscape of Pinterest in 2025, particularly focusing on its significance for food creators. Originally a recording from a recent webinar, Kate decided to share it on the podcast due to the wealth of wisdom and practical examples Bjork provided.

Overview of Food Blogger Pro and Pinch of Yum

Bjork Ostrom introduces the dual structure of Food Blogger Pro, encompassing both a free weekly podcast and a comprehensive membership program. The podcast features conversations with creators and experts across various domains, including Pinterest and YouTube. The membership offers deeper educational resources, such as training videos, live Q&As, and exclusive forums.

“We have a podcast, but then we also have the membership. The membership is for people who want to come in and really go deep.” [02:53]

Pinterest’s Role in 2025 for Business and Food Creators

Bjork emphasizes the enduring importance of Pinterest as a primary traffic driver, surpassing even Google for some clients. Despite fluctuations in its popularity, Pinterest remains a vital platform for businesses seeking quality traffic and high engagement.

“Pinterest is one of the platforms I think you should probably start with before any of the others... it's a super important platform.” [07:05]

Kate echoes this sentiment, highlighting Pinterest’s less exhausting nature compared to platforms like Instagram and its suitability for sustained marketing efforts.

“I find that Pinterest is way easier to market on.” [07:05]

The Importance of Community and Long-term Strategy

The conversation underscores the value of community in the Food Blogger Pro membership. A diverse group of members, ranging from newcomers to seasoned creators, fosters a rich exchange of ideas and experiences. This collaborative environment supports long-term business growth and effective Pinterest marketing strategies.

“The community comes together to be this amazing blend of experience and share where you get to learn so much.” [05:49]

Content Quality vs. Tactics on Pinterest

Bjork draws a parallel between content creation on Pinterest and songwriting in the music industry. He argues that the foundation of success lies in creating high-quality content rather than merely employing trendy tactics. Good content naturally benefits from platform-specific best practices, ensuring long-term sustainability.

“If you're not creating funny, engaging, interesting short form videos, it doesn't really matter.” [17:07]

Kate adds that while tactics are essential, they must be grounded in the creation of authentic and valuable content.

“Letting your content be driven by who you are and who you want to serve.” [20:43]

Strategies for Content Creation and Keyword Optimization

The duo discusses effective content strategies on Pinterest, emphasizing the importance of keywords and understanding Pinterest analytics. Keywords should be strategically placed in board names, descriptions, pin titles, and descriptions to enhance discoverability.

“There are five places you want to put keywords: board name, board description, pin title, pin description, and alt text.” [39:21]

Bjork highlights the significance of "saves" as a key metric on Pinterest, indicating user intent and content value.

“Saves are the number one metric that Pinterest says... the more saves you have, the better.” [21:59]

Addressing AI-Generated Content on Pinterest

A pressing concern addressed in the episode is the influx of AI-generated content on Pinterest, particularly in the recipe niche. Bjork and Kate discuss the challenges AI poses to content authenticity and trust. While Pinterest has yet to establish clear guidelines or reporting mechanisms for AI-generated pins, the hosts advocate for maintaining human-centric, authentic content to preserve trust and engagement.

“Trust will win. People will gravitate towards content that feels authentic and valuable.” [51:45]

Q&A Highlights

The episode features a robust Q&A segment where Kate and Bjork tackle various listener questions:

1. Pinterest vs. Other Platforms for Traffic:

   • Pinterest remains a top traffic source, often surpassing Google and significantly outperforming Instagram in driving traffic to blogs.
   • “Pinterest drives direct traffic, unlike Instagram which aims to keep users within the app.” [34:49]

2. Relevance of Keywords:

   • Keywords are crucial for Pinterest’s search and discovery algorithms, influencing both user engagement and content visibility.
   • “Keywords make the whole thing essentially work.” [37:29]

3. Types of Content Performing Well:

   • Image pins with context-rich text perform best, especially in niches like food where detailed descriptions add value.
   • “Image pins do far better than anything else.” [41:59]

4. Frequency and Timing of Posts:

   • Consistency is more important than exact timing. Posting between 5 to 25 times a day is recommended, with flexibility based on creator capacity.
   • “Consistency is key, but not overdoing it.” [44:10]

5. Long Shelf Life of Pinterest Content:

   • Pins can remain relevant for up to 13 months or more, making Pinterest a valuable platform for long-term content strategies.
   • “It’s a long-term platform that has to be part of your strategy.” [45:18]

6. Running Ad Campaigns on Pinterest:

   • Pinterest ads are effective when paired with clear conversion goals, such as selling products or growing email lists. However, campaigns aimed solely at driving traffic may not yield a positive return on investment.
   • “Never run an ad campaign simply for traffic; it’s too hard to track.” [46:37]

Key Takeaways

1. Focus on Quality Content: Prioritize creating valuable, authentic content over chasing fleeting tactics or platform trends.
2. Leverage Pinterest Analytics: Utilize Pinterest’s advanced analytics to understand audience behavior and optimize content accordingly.
3. Maintain Consistency: Regularly pinning content, even if infrequent, helps sustain and grow engagement over time.
4. Understand Metrics: Emphasize key Pinterest metrics like saves to gauge content performance and audience intent.
5. Navigate AI Challenges: Continue to produce human-centric content to build and maintain trust in the face of increasing AI-generated content.
6. Strategic Platform Use: Use Pinterest primarily for traffic generation while leveraging other platforms like Instagram for brand awareness.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Kate and Bjork reiterating the importance of community and continuous learning. They encourage listeners to join Food Blogger Pro for deeper insights and support in their Pinterest marketing journey. Both hosts underscore the enduring value of Pinterest as a powerful tool for driving traffic and growing a business, especially for content creators in the food niche.

“I think it's a valuable investment for anyone in the food creator community.” [58:03]

The conversation wraps up with a mutual appreciation for shared expertise and a commitment to supporting fellow creators through educational and collaborative efforts.

Notable Quotes

• “Do less, not more.” – Bjork Ostrom [09:23]
• “Trust will win. People will gravitate towards content that feels authentic and valuable.” – Kate Ahl [57:46]
• “Saves are the number one metric that Pinterest says... the more saves you have, the better.” – Bjork Ostrom [21:59]

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for food creators and businesses looking to harness Pinterest’s full potential in 2025. By balancing quality content creation with strategic use of platform-specific best practices, creators can achieve sustained growth and meaningful engagement on Pinterest.

Transcript

[A]

Hey there and welcome back to another episode of the Simple Pin podcast. Today I'm going to be sharing with you a recording from a recent webinar that I did with Bjork Ostrom. We were talking to food creators about the state of Pinterest in 2025 where food creators fit in and the reason food is because he owns the company Food Blogger Pro. I am an expert in their community and help them by contributing Pinterest advice and answering question that their community has every once in a while. So we wanted to talk about a variety of things and I wasn't planning on airing this to the podcast, but there were so many great pieces of wisdom that I think Bjork shared and examples and antidotes that really applied to where anybody is at in business. Not just food creators, but really where we're all at. We talked AI number of pins per day tactics focusing on less instead of more that while we were in the midst of recording it I thought this has got to go on the podcast. We do not have a blog post for this and it is not up on YouTube. It is just simply here in the podcast apps. So if you'd like to share it with your friends, I would love for you to pass this on. I hope that it's an encouragement to you and to anyone who listens. Also, if you'd like to join Food Blogger Pro this year, we mentioned it a couple times in the episode from the webinar. There is a link down below that you can join. Also, I do want to invite you if you were sad that you missed this class and you thought, well, I want to join another one. We have another opportunity. January 16th at 10am Pacific 1pm Eastern. This is going live on January 15th so that means that it's tomorrow. So if you're listening to this later, you've missed it, but we do have a replay. You could ask us for that, but the replay will go down Shortly after this January 16th date of the live class, I'm going to be diving into three mistakes I see people making on Pinterest and how to fix them. Totally free jam packed hour. Yes, again we will have a replay, but make sure you're signed up so we can send you that replay. You can scroll down below in your podcast app or go to simplepin media.com class and sign up for it now. Alrighty. I hope you're encouraged by this episode. We're going to dive in super quick with Bjork talking about who he is and what he does.

[B]

You're listening to the Simple Pen podcast Pinterest for business advice that goes down smooth and easy, here's your host, Kate.

[A]

All.

[B]

Over on Food Blogger Pro is that we get to have these conversations with people who are really smart and really capable, either creators, so on. On we have a podcast, so we talk to the creators on the podcast, or we talk to experts in a certain area, like uk, an expert in Pinterest, or we might talk to somebody who's an expert in YouTube. So we have the podcast, but then we also have the membership. And the membership is for people who want to come in and really go deep. We talk about this idea of a double click, right? So like you can have this world where you are kind of looking, you're interested in a thing and then you find a folder you want to learn more about and you double click. For the people who are interested in double clicking into learning education and kind of fast tracking their education around how to be a food creator, we have the membership. The membership exists as a training videos, live Q&As with experts that we do like this that are just for the members. There's a forum, so there's a discounts on tools, things like that. So those are kind of the two components that people know us most for with Food Blogger Pro, which is the podcast. It's a weekly podcast, it's free. You do a podcast as well. Subscribe to both of those if you haven't. And then there's the membership. My guess is some of the people who are tuning in here today, see in the live portion of this, right now we almost have 60 folks who are turning up, which is awesome. Some people have probably come up against Food Blogger Pro in the world of the podcast. Maybe we have some members here today. And I think that you also shared a link for anybody who's tuning in if they want to join. And there's a discount like a simple, simple pen, a hundred dollars off discount. So as we're going through the webinar today, the purpose of it isn't to talk about Food Blogger Pro, but if anybody's interested in checking that out and joining through your link, Kate, we would love for people to do that. So excited to be here, excited to have conversations about how to use Pinterest. It's kind of, you know, we've both been doing it long enough where we've seen Pinterest was like white hot, most important tool and then it kind of cooled a little bit as it became less of a traffic driver. But now as people are starting to Become more frustrated with some of the other platforms and Google and seeing the earning potential from Pinterest, you can earn more from that traffic, like within your dashboard, if you use Raptive, if you use mediavine. The value from a monetary perspective of a visit from Pinterest is one of the highest that you can get. And so it's a really important platform. It's important to be having conversations like this because we are building these businesses and these businesses are reliant on attention, and there's a lot of people giving a lot of attention on Pinterest. So it's a valuable tool, which is why it's so important that you're doing what you're doing.

[A]

Yeah, well, thank you for that. And I want to say too, that, yeah, I agree with you. There's been so much. We've known each other for a long time. We've seen this industry move and ebb and flow for so long. And I think that's what's really great. Also, just about a community of people is not only do you get those who are in the same shoes as you, you're like, maybe you're six months or nine months or even five years or six years, but what you get is the wisdom from the seasoned people and the questions from the new people. And it comes together to be this, like, amazing mar of experience, shares where you get to learn so much. And I think that is what I have felt like. It has helped grow my business and grow my Pinterest marketing and challenge me. Even last night, as I was, I was looking around Pinterest, I was messing with some things and I thought things are always evolving and changing. But to your point, not as much as other platforms. Like, I don't feel exhausted going into Pinterest. I don't feel like, you know, I'm looking at Instagram like crazy, like, I'm a feverish teenager, right? Like, reading texts. But on Pinterest, I kind of go and I relax and I go, okay, what am I going to learn about the platform? How am I going to use it? Who's my person over here? There? I just, I find that Pinterest is way easier to market on. So there's that, and I think there's.

[B]

The personal component of just like, what does it feel like to use it? And then there's also the practical component of what are. What is the outcome as a business? And I think, especially for food creators, you know, I would if. If your goal is traffic. And for a lot of people, that's what it Is and. And attention, like just getting viewability and visibility. Like Pinterest is one of the platforms I think you should probably start with before any of the others. Instagram, obviously, TikTok is important, but I would make the case that those are more awareness and then traffic secondarily, whereas Pinterest would be traffic and then awareness secondarily. So, um, I think it's a super important platform. It's one of the ones that we think about the most. Instagram, you know, Lindsay for Pinch of Yum. So that's the other piece of the story. For those who aren't familiar, we have Food Blogger Pro and then Pinch of Yum. So we're actually practicing all of this stuff. Those are the two that we think about, Instagram and Pinterest, and then the. The site itself.

[A]

So, yeah, that. And we'll leave a link to that so you guys can go check that out. Pinch of Yum is great. It's. I am on their email list. I have the salmon bowls, like all cued, ready to go. I haven't made them yet, but I think to your point, like, the one big. There's two big things we wanted to cover today, and I think that number one is, is why Pinterest is so important in this whole landscape. And like you said, it's a traffic driver. It earns more with the ad income and it's actually less intense of a requirement. And what I would do for anybody, whether you're new or whether you are seasoned, is January is always a good time to hit the reset button to say, okay, I have all these platforms to choose from out there. Which ones am I going to choose and what am I going to make? How am I going to prioritize growth, that platform? And when I did that last night, I let go of Instagram this last year. It's not that I don't use it, but I think for me, I decided to make it not a mental load because I felt like it was just so much of a drain that I actually put in my tracking. YouTube, Google and Pinterest. Those are the three metrics I'm going to track because that's what's important to me. So I really think for those who are food creators, it's important for you to just pick one or two. Like, don't pick them all, because right now it's going to overwhelm you drastically, I guess. What do you say to people when they're like, okay, what do I choose to start with? Like, where do I go from here?

[B]

The thought that I had, as you were talking about that was, you know, I think a lot in, in bets. And what would the be the bet that I would make. And in a scenario where you had one creator, it was a solo creator, they're starting out, it was sweat equity, meaning they weren't taking, they weren't taking $100,000 and hiring a team to build a business. It was just like they were going to build it through working on it. So that's the scenario. And you are betting between two different paths. The first path is that person who's building a business through sweat equity tries to post to all platforms. The second one is that person picks two. And those two platforms are also intentional in that they are aligned with what they feel like, how they create as a creator, what feels like a best fit. And then you follow those people for a decade. What would your bet be on the long term outcome of the success of those two paths. And my bet would be that the most successful outcome, if success is being quantified as growth of the business, maybe monetary, there's revenue, traffic, whatever it might be following. My bet would be the person who picks one or two platforms and becomes the ultimate expert and understands the ins and outs of that, that person is going to be more successful. And so it's a little bit counterintuitive, but I think if you want to be more successful, do less, not more. When it comes to platforms that you are posting to and spending time on now, eventually you'll get to a point where you might have enough success that you can say, I've really figured out Pinterest and my site. Those are the two that you're focusing on. I, I think the next kind of mountain for me to climb is Instagram. Then I think the play is you don't become an expert on it. You, you bring somebody in on your team to help you with that and to, and, and, and you maybe are kind of managing, coaching your, you're aware of it as a platform, but you aren't the creator that is spending your time on it. You're not, you know, your hours aren't spent then on this new platform trying to do more work. It's just how do you then syndicate the work that you are doing to another platform with somebody else on your team helping with that. So I think you get to that point eventually. But you can't start doing all of those things. You have to get to the point where you can bring somebody in to help you with those other things which, you know, in our case. It's like, we're not experts on Pinterest. Lindsay's really good at Instagram. You know, she's in the other room right now with the video. Our video friend Landon, like, recording content for Instagram. That's what she knows. We'll post it to TikTok. We're not experts on TikTok. We'll post it to YouTube. But Pinterest is really important for us. But we work with simple pin to help do that, because that's something that we know that we don't want to bring in. We don't even want to, like, manage it in house. And so, you know, we've been doing this for 15 years and we still. I still feel like I'm not an expert on Pinterest. I kind of know a little bit about it, but we're expert on other things and we syndicate our content to Pinterest because it is an important platform.

[A]

Yeah. And I love that. Thank you for calling that out. Thank you for your support of Open. But I would say I love that stair step process. And I'm thinking of a creator who's going through the stair step process, and the one thing that's going to bump them off track and get them distracted is, what if I'm missing it? What if I'm missing the platform, where I'm going to go viral, where I'm going to go crazy? We hear these stories just in the peripheral where it's like so and so grew on TikTok or Instagram and they had this go crazy. How do you put blinders on to really resist this temptation to kind of sidestep into it and get distracted from walking up those stairs in a very succinct way, because I think that fear of the fomo, of missing out on a viral moment, is pretty real for creators.

[B]

Yeah. I think there's the difference between a complete shift and a taste test. And I think that an example might be in the world, like how you eat. Maybe you eat in a certain way and you have a way every day you're going to have kind of similar breakfast, similar lunch, maybe similar dinner, week to week, month to month. And you might taste test some other things, but it's a really big shift to say, hey, I'm going to completely redefine my diet and I'm going to go, you know, vegan or whatever it might be. That requires kind of like a. A pretty significant change. I think, similarly, if you have routines around a certain platform, it's okay to dabble like, hey, in the margins you're going to kind of get see what it's like to post on Instagram. You know, I think of my friend whose wife does this short term, short form video content. They're called Shuffle Mamas and they do like their moms who do shuffle videos. And they, they posted a TikTok and they, and they had built a following and you know, they're kind of trying to figure out their business but then they were like, hey, I'm gonna dabble a little bit for within the world of Instagram. And they posted and they started to see some traction there and that was enough for them to say, hey, we're gonna step back and kind of redefine how we're gonna approach this because they saw some traction. So I think it's okay to dabble a little bit to understand platforms, but not to do a complete shift until you have, you know, a little bit of a thesis around why you want to make that change. And so it's not to say, hey, don't look at any other platform, but it's just, it's kind of saying, don't change your diet on a week to week basis. Don't say like I'm gonna, I'm gonna do my blog and I'm gonna focus on that. And then wait a minute, like somebody said they're have success on YouTube so I'm going to shift and now I'm going to do YouTube. I'm a YouTuber and there's this balance that we have to have. And I talk a lot about this idea of back pocket. And so we're constantly learning, we're constantly hearing stories of other people's successes. And one of the things that I feel like I've become really good at over the last 15 years of building online businesses is saying, wow, that's really interesting. It feels like there's an opportunity there. I'm going to put that in my back pocket and come back to it if I feel like there's an opportunity there. But not move forward on everything just because somebody else has seen success with it. Because the one thing that I have seen as the very, the through line in all of these stories is the people who are achieving a certain level of success are showing up and kind of doing a similar thing over a really long period of time. And the variable that people usually don't get to is sticking with it long enough and constantly improving on the thing that they're doing. And it's the premise of our business name, it's tiny bit It's a tiny bit better every day forever. And the reason we call our business our parent company above, like Food Blogger Pro and Pinch of Yum and all those businesses, the reason that's called Tiny Bit is because we really feel like that's what it takes. It takes showing up every day, getting a tiny bit better and sticking with it not for months, but sticking with it for years. And through that iterative compounding process, what will happen is you'll become an expert on the thing that you're working on. If you are able to stick with it for a long period of time and not think like, hey, this little tactic or this little trick is going to be what allows me to build a business. And in. Usually that's. That helps, but that's not what it's about.

[A]

Yeah, and I. We have talked before about this analogy and I'd love for you just to share it because I think it's really good. Is that like Juicy Fruit analogy? Like, it's. Sometimes things will be really good for a little bit, but yeah, then they'll be not totally.

[B]

Yeah. And I think there's the base of all of what we are doing is content. Like, we are content creators and the business is content. And so I like to draw the analogy because I think it's helpful for people to step outside of kind of being really close to it and say, and look to a different industry. And the industry that I like to point to is the industry of music. And the foundation for, if you are a musician is the song that you write. And the foundation for us as content creators is the content that we create. But let's look at music as an example. There are people who are writing really good songs. And those really good songs will reach more people if they apply best practices and tactics around uploading to Spotify and maybe getting included on playlists and using SoundCloud and posting to YouTube and doing a collab. Those are all multipliers on the base of a really good song. And if you write a really good song and you apply those best practices, those tactics, what you're going to get is you have something that's really good. Kind of the Juicy Fruit analogies. You get a little spike, but it's a spike on something that's really high quality. If you shift over and you say, okay, but what if you wrote like a really bad song and then you applied those same tactics, you might get some traction, you might get something that works, but in terms of your future as an artist, it's not going to be able to sustain itself if you're not writing good songs. And so I think as content creators, what we need to think about is what is it that we are actually creating and what is the quality of that thing that we are putting into the world? And then how do we think strategically around, hey, there's this thing that's working on this platform. I need to be aware of that and use that. Okay, so Instagram, it's going to be easier to build content business on Instagram if I'm doing short form video than it's going to be if I'm doing images. Like that's tactic based analysis. But if you're not creating funny, engaging, interesting short form videos, it doesn't, that knowledge doesn't really matter. And so I think the same can be applied to Pinterest where you have this platform. There are things that are working better or worse today than they were three years ago, five years ago, seven years ago. But what will universally be the same today, next year, five years, is the thing that you are creating has to be helpful, it has to be funny, it has to be engaging. Not all of those things, it has to be one or some of those things in order to, to sustain yourself as a creator. So I think sometimes what can happen is we can, we can think that what we need to get good at is the tactic because we see other people doing it or we see that it works for a little bit. But what we actually need to get good at is the business that we are in and we are content creators and we need to create good content. Similar to if you're a musician or an artist, you are creating music, you aren't creating tactics to like get your song heard. Because if it's not a good song, it doesn't matter. And if it's not good content, it doesn't matter.

[A]

Yeah, that is such a, that's a good leap for this thing of like, okay, what are the best practices on Pinterest? Which I think is always something that people are asking me, they're always wondering and I think that straddles that line between what are good long term sustainable practices and then tactics. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like you said, there's this thing where you can build your business on like a practice you're going to use year over year. It's going to be part of like your ethos. Almost like this is the type of food content I'm going to create. I'm really going to stay in this lane or I'm going to make my images look like this or X, Y, Z. And then there's different tactics that you can try year over year that change based on where the platforms are at. And even, like you said, Pinterest had this hot period and then a cooling period. And then I don't kind of know what period we're in right now. We're kind of in a weird one, but I feel like that's in general, all of the online spaces right now, it feels like the target has moved and nobody knows where to aim. It feels very strange. And what you said is very grounding to say, okay, go back to why did you become a creator? Who do you want to serve? And I think that applies to Pinterest as well. We've had many conversations with people who come up to us and say, okay, Kate, how many times do I pin per day?

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

And we go back and we say, let's pull back the question into who is your target audience on Pinterest? Who's clicking on your pins? What are the images that they like? Have you even thought about keywords or images or any of that? And they say, well, yeah, I mean, I'm creating great content and then I'm just creating an image and putting it up there. It's kind of this like, hey, I'm going to lob it over into left field and let's hope it works, right? Instead of backing up and saying, okay, have you looked in. There's a few things that I'm going to give people to kind of do some investigating, which is there is. Your analytics on Pinterest has actually gotten way better than it has in years past. And there's a lot of information that you can gain from just looking in there to see what are actually people saving. And saving is the number one thing as far as in 2025, like, things to pay attention to. Saves are the number one metric that Pinterest says over and over is a good indicator because it gives not only the algorithm the understanding that somebody finds this important, but it also says they might revisit it later. So it's. The more saves you have, the better. So I would say, and I feel.

[B]

Like, yeah, to pause real quick on that, that's like a perfect example of it's not a tactic, but it's a multiplier. And everybody listening here just gained a really valuable nugget in terms of an understanding of a tool that you wouldn't have had before as a creator. And so what we can do now is we can take that and we can say, okay, we are creators. How do we have a tool? How do we then think strategically around and creatively around what that means? So we've gotten this information. Okay, Saves are important. Awesome. Like what, how do people exist within the world and how are they acting and how can we think about that within the context of the platform? For instance, maybe you have, you are creating content and it's around like a campaign that you are doing. And you know that if people who are coming to Pinterest and they are searching for ways to, you know, I just saw one of these, you know, Instagram reels and it's like, here's the regrets of the dying. It's like, sounds morbid, but I think it's like, I'm stick with me, I'm getting there. Like, it's to spend more time. You know, people wish that they wouldn't have worked as much. They would have spent more time with their friends, more time with their family, like, would have lived their own life, things like that. And so I was thinking about, like, man, what does that look like for us, creating content in the world? How can we encourage more people to spend time with their family and friends? Well, what if we did something on Pinch of Yam that allowed us to help people facilitate get togethers in a way that isn't as overwhelming? And so, okay, we're going to think through how to have a conversation and, and guide people through this process of doing a get together. Okay, what does that look like, knowing that it's important on Pinterest? Oh, what if we created some content? We pinned some content that was like, hey, we're in 2025. We're calling it the year of Together. And join us for this journey. Here's where we're going to be posting all of the content on the site. You know, it's, it's a URL. It goes to that landing page. And so you're starting to use that tactic, that multiplier. But, but you're not just doing it saying, like, okay, I'm just going to like, tell people to save stuff. You're going to the level of the person and saying, why do people save stuff? What's the reason why somebody would be on Pinterest? What might they be thinking if they're on Pinterest? And then how can I, with my expertise, my resources, create something that would encourage that person to save A thing that I feel like is where you can kind of start to meld those tactics, multipliers, with best practice around content, because both are really important. If you didn't know that saves were important on Pinterest, which my guess is a lot of people who are posting content on Pinterest don't know that it would maybe change how you do it. So it's a great example of why both of those things are so important.

[A]

And it changes the language that you use too as well. If you know that people are looking for a certain type of thing and they're always using this certain type of language. Maybe in that post to the original one that you read, there's this thing that in the comments, people are saying, I would love to host a X, Y, Z type of dinner. And then you can take those as cues and even go to like Pinterest trends or something else and say, are people already searching for this? What's the type of content that's there? And I had this really interesting experience with somebody at a conference where they were saying they thought they were targeting Millennials, but they actually were ending up getting a lot of Gen X. And I've noticed recently Pinterest just came out with their Pinterest predicts for 2025. And normally what they say is Gen Z is the fastest growing demographic, which they still say. But you see this emphasis on Gen Z almost with all the social platforms. But I love that they included in some of those predictions. This is trending for Gen Z and Boomers. And I was like, oh, that's very interesting that they're including, because Pinterest is a multi generational platform. My mom is 77. She uses Pinterest every single day. And so do her friends. Right? And I'm a Gen X. And you know, there's Millennial, it's multi. And so it's really important for you to see, like, what is your gener, what's the targeting generation that you're looking at? What's the language that they're using? Because Millennial and Gen X is going to be very different than Gen Z. So just don't always go with what you hear kind of in the peripheral. I think that's an easy thing to do. We hear these things from people and we say, oh, well, I guess Gen Z is the fastest growing demographic on Pinterest. I should target them. Well, if that's not your target, then don't target them and don't try to chase that. If it's not what creates a connection, which I think what you outlaid is that's a connection building piece that like you have buy in it, buy in on it. And then it kind of goes out from there. It's a really great pathway to follow for sure.

[B]

Yeah, that's great. So a couple of things that I feel like are important to point out. I think the save things is good for people to like, put a pin in and be aware of. Emily dropped in the business.pinterest.com Pinterest predicts URL which it feels like that's really important even for myself. It's like, ooh, analytics. That feels like I need to revisit analytics, spend some time with that and kind of wrap my head around what looks, what that looks like there. You mentioned trends. Is that different trends is different than the Pinterest predicts, right?

[A]

Yeah, it's trends.pinterest.com and like what's trending right now? Exactly. Well, actually it's what's trending right now, but you could see the trend within the full year. So if I wanted to look at any type of keywords, like if I click on, I'm going to actually share my screen. I don't usually do this in the call, but I think it's kind of fun to just go for it real time. Exactly. Okay. I tried to share the other day, it went black. So let me know if it's.

[B]

You can see it, can see it, all the trends.

[A]

So this is actually cool because it goes for all these different countries too. So if you're a creator in these different countries, make sure you switch here as well. But also be cognizant of if you're in Canada and you have mostly a US audience, you want to keep it at us. But something here like recipe ideas, I can click on that keyword and then it will take me to this. Recipe ideas is trending, you know, really weekend. And a lot of this we see because people are coming off of the holidays and they're kind of exhausted of different, you know, of Christmas food essentially. But then it'll give you related trends here, easy meals. So then if I add this as a layer, I can see it like it's kind of here. It's not true. Yeah, but. And then I can get oh, easy dinner ideas and you can kind of like keep layering to see, but you can also see, you know, demographics here. What age is looking for this primarily. And these are popular pins down here as well. So it gives you some ideas there. Once you click back out of this. Let me see if this is over here. You can change it over here. Top yearly trends, top monthly trends, seasonal trends. So I guess I would say, like, if you are a person who is dry with ideas as well, and you don't know what to create. And you also are wondering what is trending on Pinterest. Go here and then also go to Pinterest Predicts. I did a podcast on that yesterday where I said, go look at the trends. Right. Moto Boho was one for fashion. They gave an explainer of who the target is. And I love that they're doing this in each section. They're saying this is Millennial Boomer or this is Gen Z, Gen X. Right. So that's a great clue there. And then they give you five to six keywords and how much they are trending. And so you can grab that keyword, put it into trends, put it into Pinterest, and then also you can grab it and you can chat GPT it if you want and say, help me come up with blog post ideas around this particular topic. And there you go. You've got great content ideas for Pinterest. Because Pinterest thrives with the creator that is continually creating new content on their website. And this is something that we've seen year over year is that I'll kind of here, I'll kind of explain it as like, there's older creators that have created content for so long. Like, let's say Pinch of Yum. And Lindsay hits this wall where she's like, I am done creating content for a year. Right. Which makes sense. You're burned out. You've been doing it for so long. And then they will go back.

[B]

People that we know that have been.

[A]

That been totally burnout's real. Right. It's hard to come up with more ideas. So they will go back to their old content and they refresh all their Pinterest images and they'll just add those new Pinterest Refreshing.

[B]

Meaning they're still taking images from that post, but it's like a new.

[A]

Exactly. A new image. They New.

[B]

Old. New to Pinterest.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So they would take a bread recipe and maybe before it said, easy sourdough bread recipe, get started. They might reframe it into best tips for sourdough bread recipe or best sour and then put that on Pinterest. Right. What we see with those creators is that their traffic decreases over time because they're not adding anything new. Whereas those who are creating meaning, they're.

[B]

Not publishing a new blog post and then putting that like. And is the idea that Pinterest is recognizing this is an old URL.

[A]

You know, I don't know the semantics of it they've really been kind of hidden about that. They keep using this language of they've used in the past, fresh content, fresh pin. They've tried to clarify that. People have tried to read through the lines to say, okay, well then that means I can create a new Pinterest image that looks like to an old post. To an old post which looks like new content. But the data tells us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That they don't see it that way.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

Kind of like we're using our own investigative work there. Whereas when people who create new content on their website put that to Pinterest, they either remain steady or grow at a healthy clip on Pinterest. As opposed to the person who, even though they have all this backlog, their numbers are going to stagnate or they're going to decrease.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So I think that's an important thing for those who have been on Pinterest for a while. If you're coming up into January, you and I were having this conversation before we started. It's been a little hard to get moving here in January. I feel like, you know, content is the holidays.

[B]

It's like your routines were thrown off. Yeah, totally.

[A]

You are not feeling creating content at all like I was, I was there yesterday. But if you do some things that can kind of jog some creativity or maybe ask your audience or serve, survey your audience to ask them what they're interested in. Ask them if they use Pinterest, Ask them what they love on Pinterest, let them fuel that, because 10 out of 10, they're going to give you what they want and that's going to do well on Pinterest and serve your consistent content creation. That will keep your numbers steady and growing, which will be helpful.

[B]

So, yep, I love that. Should we jump into some of the questions? We've got a lot of folks writing some great questions in here. Do you want me to go through these? I can ask ask you and then, yeah, we can go go from there. So speaking of traffic, this person has a question around traffic. If is Pinterest still effective for driving traffic to a blog? If so, why choose Pinterest over Instagram or other platforms for traffic generation?

[A]

Traffic, yes, it is 100%. We look at our clients, we run our analytics reports every month. It's Google Pinterest. We very, very rarely see Instagram in the top of a traffic driver. Even for us, when we were investing 20 to hours a month into Instagram, we were following, quote, unquote, all the rules. We really couldn't get it anywhere close to Pinterest for driving traffic. And the reason for that being is that on Instagram, the goal is to keep you in the app, to keep you scrolling, going through stories you don't really. They don't want you to leave. Whereas the nature of Pinterest is you find an idea and you pop off the platform to go learn more about it. So the habits of the platforms are completely different. Also, the Pinterest audience is what we call a cold audience. They don't know who you are or what you do. They're just interacting with that particular pin. Whereas somebody on Instagram generally has to choose to follow you to continue to nurture the relationship. So I would say it's not an either or, but it's kind of a both. And. But like you said earlier, I would use Instagram for awareness, Pinterest as a traffic driving tool. And I do think it's still good in 2025.

[B]

That's great. And when you say Google Pinterest, was that like, for you specifically or just like across your clients?

[A]

It's across clients and it goes back.

[B]

And forth for us.

[A]

Yeah, it'll be kind of. Especially in Q4, Pinterest will go above Google sometimes. It just depends on the client and it depends on actually to what you were talking about earlier, how they invested in Pinterest. If they made it one of those things that they invested in early on, we will often see that Pinterest weights more heavily. So it might be actually 50% of their traffic in Google is 30. And then some of them are working on making that pie a little bit more like, you know, 40 40. So that it's not so heavily dependent on Pinterest. But for the most part, those top two traffic drivers. For me, my top three are Google, YouTube, Pinterest. But that's just because we put more of an initiative into YouTube.

[B]

Yep. And I have this theory that Instagram. One of the important reasons why Instagram would exist from a traffic standpoint is because I think, I think branded search is important. And so if you're creating content and people go to Google and do branded search, like if you are able to help encourage them to go and, you know, pinch of yum, chocolate chip cookies or whatever it might be. Yeah, that's important. But it's. It. The platform itself is not going to be able to drive traffic, but Pinterest is like the traffic itself does come directly from Pinterest, which is really important. Um, how about this question about keywords? Are keywords still Relevant on Pinterest. So can you talk about kind of generally what a keyword is and if it's still important to be thinking about keywords?

[A]

Yeah. So a keyword, if you're at all familiar with Google, which I would assume most creators would be at this point, is that you want to use a particular keyword so that Google will rank your particular piece of content that is the same. When it comes to Pinterest, the algorithm on Pinterest is search and discovery. So they basically put in a keyword or a phrase into the search bar, and then Pinterest matches it up with those that very closely match it. So keywords make the whole thing essentially work. There's two ways that a Pinner interacts with Pinterest. They open up their app and they scroll through that home feed. They call it a smart feed. And Pinterest goal is to take what you search, what you're interested in. And the boards that you've saved to all these indicators will then make up your feed. And the keywords are a huge part of that. That's what drives it. And then we do a keyword search. We have the search feed. Those are when you have more intentional searches. So there's five places you want to put keywords. The number one is going to be a board name. So these are boards that live on your profile that essentially categorize your content for the algorithm. So if we take the cookies, it might be chocolate chip cookie recipes. That would be the name of the board. Then you would put a description of that board. You would use chocolate chip cookies again in that description. And then on the pin itself is probably actually the most important. So you have a pin title, a pin description. We are now hearing reports that alt text, when you complete that, that is not so heavily weighted, but it's definitely important factor into it. And so all these things kind of work together to say, oh, this is a chocolate chip cookie recipe. And Sally just searched for that. We're going to show it to her in her search feed. And maybe the next time she opens up Pinterest, we're gonna give her more chocolate chip cookie recipes. So there's this opportunity for re engagement.

[B]

Yeah, that's great. I feel like it's another example of understanding a multiplier. You create really good content, you have a good recipe, and then you understand the multiplier of best practice on the platform. You understand keywords are important. You understand saving is an important metric. And you craft your content in a way that is it's good content to start with. And you are also crafting it with this idea of, hey, if people come here and search for this different industry, let's say kitchen remodel, how do you craft something that is speaking to somebody? The, you know, could be the 10 things that I'm. The 10 worst decisions I made in my kitchen remodel. Oh, that. That's actually kind of interesting. For somebody who's doing a kitchen remodel, they might click on that, they might engage with that, they might save it because they want to come back to that so they don't make those same mistakes. And they're actually helpful and really intriguing. And you're like, wow, this is something that I'm really glad that I saved all of those. You can see how they all start to play together as best practices. So keywords still very important. And in those five areas that you.

[A]

Mentioned, which is great, and your example is great because I want to call this out is that pinners have what we call high intent and low intent, meaning they might be searching for kitchen remodel, but they see your post about worse things that you did in your kitchen remodel, they're like, I wasn't interested in that particular part of it, but now I am. Very similar to like skin care. If you're talking about creating a spa routine at home or something like that, they're not necessarily looking for that. But when they search skin care, some of these things can be featured in their feed and they go, oh, I'm interested in that too. They're open to the rabbit hole.

[B]

Yep, that's great. How about the types of content that are performing? We talked about this idea of Instagram. Short form video obviously is so important. Images, not as much Pinterest, I generally think of it as like an image driven platform. So the question here is what kind of pins are performing well right now? Videos versus photos with text versus plain photos. I know you've also talked about including a logo as potentially an important piece, which I think is cool.

[A]

Yeah. So there's four types of pins on Pinterest that we have now. We have image pins, we have video pins, we have product pins, and we have ads. So some people will still see on their. I have it. I don't know why I have it. But you will see idea pins still floating around. Those are not a thing. I don't know why they've got. It's still there, but it. But it is. But when you create a pin, it just becomes just a standard pin. It's kind of a Regular pin, if you will. They're kind of moving towards that model.

[B]

Well, meaning a pin is a pin. There's not different types of pins.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

There's different mediums within a pin. Video versus photo. But like, it's just a pin, Correct?

[A]

Exactly. We are seeing image pins do far better than anything else. There are a few rare outliers where some people will say their video performs well. Some of our clients will have video that does really great. And then clients even the same niche, maybe they even both talk about sourdough. Their videos will do terrible. So it's really a hit or miss with video. There's no consistent thread right now. So when it comes to the image pin, that is number one when it comes. It comes to text or no text. With food, we always say text because there's so much context that can be added. In addition, Pinterest has a visual search tool where it will read the keywords on the image. So there's an advantage if you have chocolate chip cookie on your image that Pinterest knows even more how to serve it up, especially if it's gluten free, if it's vegan, if there's any qualifiers, add those to the text. Because I could see a cookie and I frame it up as just a traditional chocolate chip cookie, but maybe it is vegan and gluten free. That has to be there for not only a good pinner user experience, but also for the algorithm. No text. We really see mostly working in photography, some travel, home decor, anything where the pinner needs to kind of see the holistic view of it. So those are the ones that we say just kind of merge away from using text. As far as logo, we do like that for brand awareness. Just because people see pins kind of in its silo all by itself. Right. Like just on Pinterest, it's not connected to your brand. So we do like having that logo there tastefully. But don't do it in the bottom right hand corner. Do it anywhere on the pin. Don't make the whole thing. Don't need a watermark it or anything like that.

[B]

Say it again. Don't do it in the bottom right corner.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. And what was the reason for that?

[A]

It's the visual search tool. So if you look under the.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I see. Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

That little box there, you can't see it.

[B]

Got it. So like bottom left would work, but bottom right it'll be covered. Yeah, got it. Cool. Some other questions here. This is kind of a specific tactic. One, how often and what time of day is best to post? I'm guessing you've answered this question before.

[A]

Yes, there's really no time of day because Pinterest will show people your pins at varying times. There's. It doesn't really matter. There are certain scheduling tools that have optimized times for your particular platform. You could follow those if you want, but we've never really noticed a huge difference in the timing. And was the other one. How many times per day was that the.

[B]

Yeah, how often?

[A]

Yeah, how often? I would say how often is anywhere between. I recently actually saw a study that Tailwind did of all their data. They said between 5 and 25 and that's usually where we align with them as well. If you are a new content creator and even the idea of five sounds overwhelming, one or two per day is fine as well. The thing that you want to take away is consistency, but not too much.

[B]

Here's a question about kind of what the lifespan of content. So somebody's asking, would you consider Pinterest as a long shelf content? As long shelf content such as blogs or long form videos like on YouTube or short shelf content such as does short form videos, we'd say like TikTok.

[A]

Instagram Reels, things like that long for sure. Actually I was reading inside the Pinterest Academy, it's 13 months is a shelf life for a pin. And the more pins have been on the platform, sometimes they can go even longer, two, three, four years. So definitely a longer shelf life. That's why we love Pinterest. But that's also what makes it very frustrating to market on is that one, there's not a lot of dopamine hits. You feel like you're not actually growing and moving. Whereas a lot of that short shelf life content will give you kickbacks that feel like you're really making progress. So know that with when you start Pinterest you're going to have invest at least six to eight months. And especially when you think of that 13 month shelf life for a pin, you've got to get well beyond a year to start to see what the Pinners actually like of what you're putting on Pinterest. So it's definitely a long, a long term platform. That has to be part of your strategy.

[B]

Great. How about this question from Sarah? She says do you need to be pinning other creators pins on Pinterest not just your own content content?

[A]

Yeah, no, we haven't had to do that for years. Which is really nice. Pin it. If you like to pin their content but it's definitely not part of the whole algorithm.

[B]

I don't know what this is, so this would be learning for me. Tammy's asking, does it pay to run a consideration campaign on Pinterest or brand awareness campaign? Is that like a Pinterest thing?

[A]

Yeah, sure. So that would be a type of ad consideration or brand awareness. Brand awareness campaigns tend to be really expensive on Pinterest. They would be for like your Nordstrom, Coca Cola, any other big companies or mid cap companies. So what I would say is if you're going to run ads on Pinterest, one of the things you want to consider is you need to know what your conversion is. So are you looking to sell a product? Are you looking to get people on your email list? I would never ever suggest somebody run an ad campaign simply for traffic or even for an affiliate conversion. It's too hard to track. There's too many variables. But I think Pinterest ads are really good, especially if you can marry non paid organic marketing with paid. As you're trying to grow your email list, as you're trying to sell a digital product or even a physical product.

[B]

Yeah, there is. This was maybe a few months ago, I was like, I wonder if you could make that. If there could be like an Pinterest ad arbitrage where you could run an ad and you could make more from the traffic than you'd spend on the ad. And it was like, nope, the answer is no. We, I don't remember what our budget was, but it was like a hundred dollars or something like that.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

But if you have a product and you know the conversion on it, you know, or like you signing up for a substack and you know that 1 out of 50 people become a subscriber and that's worth however much a year for you, you can start to play the numbers game. But it's harder when it's just traffic.

[A]

Oh, so hard when it's just traffic. Because yeah, like you said, there's no way to measure it. But one really cool thing, I'm coming out with this on a podcast coming up. But it is that question of can you leverage non paid and paid traffic? And a hundred times out of a hundred, it's always when somebody is selling something and it's just really great for those clients because you'll have a re engagement later down the line with some of the non paid stuff which fuels the paid purchases. So yeah, I know, I've had people ask me that over the years. They're like, do you Think I can get a bump in ad revenue if I do it at a campaign? I'm like, no, it's like you'll get.

[B]

A bump in ad revenue, but not more than you're spending to get it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

How about this question from Susanna? She says, what about people who create infrequently but regularly, like two times a month? How would you approach. Yeah, that's fine.

[A]

Yeah, it is fine. Especially I guess the other layer in here that I would love to know. So I'm going on the assumption that there's a lot of content. Well, there's two assumptions. If you are new and you're creating twice per month, then I would say you're pinning probably one to two times times per day. You're creating different styles of Pinterest images for those particular blog posts. So that's going to give you a little bit more of a variable there. But if you've been on Pinterest for a long time, you have a lot of content that you can still pin to Pinterest. Two times per month is great. We just don't want people stopping cold and then going a whole year and not creating new content.

[B]

Like you got to feed the fire, otherwise it's going to the not be as hot and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes, Cool. Here's interesting question coming in about AI. It's everywhere. We just, everybody's talking about AI because it's, it's like really important in our world and we're seeing it impact all different platforms. This question is this Pinterest is being flooded with AI images, especially for recipes. They go to sites with an AI generated recipes and images. And this happened maybe like, like three weeks ago or four weeks ago where Lindsay was like, wait a minute, she's looking at a site. She's like, bjork, come here. Yeah, I think this is like completely AI generated. I think maybe came through it with via Google, I don't remember. But. So is Pinterest addressing this or doesn't care? Is there a way to report it? Currently there's not an option for it when you try to report a pin. I mean, even if you did report it, I don't know if it's like a violation of anything unless they say you can't do AI images. So. So talk a little bit about AI as it relates to Pinterest.

[A]

Yeah, this is a good, timely question. I was actually doing a lot of research on this myself last night and kind of framing up where how I feel about this. And I would say one, Pinterest hasn't been public to address it yet. Because you're right, there's a lot of people who are creating AI images, and that is their art, right? Like, that's their new version of how they, a digital creator does this. So there's this line of, you don't want to squash something when it could be a really great tool. So I don't think they've addressed it. I think they care. I think they're probably in the midst of trying to figure out how they tackle it. I think it's probably what happened five or six years ago when Pinterest had stolen content on the platform, which was a little bit different, where people would swipe your image and then it would lead to another site. There's no way to report it at this time. And that's simply because you only want to report copyright infringement, which is where you get into the stolen pin.

[B]

And that's where it gets really gray. It's like it almost shifts off of Pinterest and onto these AI platforms where it's like, are they compensating creators for training on their images and text and all of that? So, yeah, that's great. Well finished. Was there more that you had with that thought?

[A]

Yeah, I guess I would say I see this a little bit like the previous years of Google. I think eventually Pinterest will come up with an option for what is good content and what is AI generated. Generated content. I think they will get smarter with that, similar to how Google pushed down things that were not good helpful content. So I think that's the way that we're going. I don't know that for sure, but it's definitely something that we hope to work with Pinterest on and ask them. I do think they have a really good team over there, but I just think they're very intentional about where they say they're going until they are already down the track. If that makes sense.

[B]

That makes sense. They're not going to speak, like pontificate on the potential future of a thing. They're going to say, here's what we did to respond to it. Had a similar question. Just saying, you know, any tips for competing with crappy AI food pins and accounts? And just saying, like, how on earth are these accounts getting high millions of monthly views? It's interesting. You know, I think my quick thought on it related to this is I think the broader question is, do people find it helpful and do people want it? And I think if there's a future where people really want, want this version of Recipes, AI images, if they find those to be really helpful. There's a little bit of a existential question that we have to ask ourselves around. If this is a better piece of content, what does that mean for us as people who are creating original content? My strong bet is that the more that people come up a piece of content against a piece of content, realize that it's artificially generated, if it's not super helpful, there's going to be like a degradation of trust. And I think trust will be allocated then to places where they feel like they can trust people. And so I think what it comes down to is number one, if Pinterest can't fix it and there's a degradation of trust on the platform, then people are going to use the platform less. If Pinterest can fix it, what will happen is they will prioritize the content and the creator that people trust the most. If people trust AI generated articles and images more, that creates an existential question for the original content creator. Yes, again playing in bets. You track out 10 years, what is that going to look like? I think people who are humanity first creators using AI as like a supportive function within their business, a researching tool, you know, evolving an idea, you know, I was using it. This is an extreme example in the opposite direction of like helping me create an Excel spreadsheet. And it's like, oh my gosh, it's so good at that. Yes, I think those people will win in the long term as opposed to people who are hiding behind some created facade and creating content that doesn't have, have their Persona attached to it. And I think because it comes down to trust, it's not to say that this isn't happening right now, that there are these accounts that are getting traction and that are getting millions of views, but I just don't feel like those are going to win in the long run against people who are using AI tools in a really smart way. But also saying, here I am here, here, yes, this is me and I am a part of this. It's like human in the loop, it's expert adjacent. I think that wins in the long run. But it is concerning for sure. When you see that happening, it is.

[A]

100 and I, I agree with you. I think trust will win. And I think I sent you this last year because it was so, it was very hilarious. But the New York Times Test Kitchen on YouTube did that chat GPT give me a recipe and they came away with the same thing to say, sure, they can give me a very good looking recipe but there's no human aspect of things to pay attention to. It' like paying attention to how you brown the chicken or paying attention to all these different things. And I, I thought of that last night as I was wrestling with this myself. Is this I. People will figure it out. Like they will figure out that they don't want to buy from somebody who's not telling them authentically what to buy or not. They'll side eye it. It'll become a skeptical form of content. So I actually really appreciate that. I think humans are still really good at deciphering what's. What's good and not good. But I, I want to empath anybody who is frustrated with the AI flooding the platform with this piece here. I think we are in a moment and it is frustrating and I'm. I'm confident we'll come out the other side, hopefully later this year where either Pinterest will have a stance or there'll be some way to identify. I'm not quite sure. But I just want to say like, I understand it's very, it's very frustrating.

[B]

Yeah. And Aaron has a follow up where they talk about stealing the recipes, doing a poor job of rewriting. Yes. Yeah. Which is like really frustrating. And I think it's something that it's. We're an inning one of it and it needs to be figured out. And I don't. It's hard to know what exactly that will look like. I think the general sentiment that I want to have is like, I think there will continue to be opportunity for people who want to create something online, connect with people, have influence, garner attention. It's not going to look like, like in 10 years, it's not going to look like what it does today. But our job to go back to kind of how we originally started the conversation is to understand how we can show up and most authentically put something into the world that's helpful, that's interesting, that's funny. And to do that adjacent to the thing that we are most interested and passionate about. And I'm bullish on there always being an opportunity for that. That it's just a matter of what that will look like and evolving that over time. So yeah, and can I say this.

[A]

Because I know we're wrapping up towards the end, but I want to jump on that because I think it's important. That's why I dropped the link here. We. I am an expert in the food blogger pro community. You and I have done podcasts over the years. We've done all these things and as an outsider, when you are in a community or when I get to see this conversation happening within the community, I think it provides this place in space for not only commiseration over these AI things, but to ask people, tell me what you're doing, telling me what your experience is. And there's nothing more powerful than hearing a story of like somebody else's experience or how they've grown. But you guys give a lot of like really great tutorials and instructional pieces. You're not going to leave any food creator. It's like every Food Creator stone is like, we're not leaving any of these unturned. Like, you want it, we'll cover it. It. So all that to say if you are all considering in 2025 looking for a community in a place that is both communal and educational and supportive. I have for years loved the Food Blogger Pro community. I think it's amazing. There's a special discount with this link if you sign up. But even more so, I think this is a good business investment for anyone in the food creator community and I can stand by that confidently and have for years. Right. Like, yeah, that's just been something that I've always been supportive of. So I don't know if there's anything you want to tell people before we go.

[B]

Oh, that's really nice. Yeah, thanks, Kate. Yeah, it's great. I mean, we've been like, we've talked about, we've been at it for a long time and our, the, in terms of like revenue, the business, the main business is pinch of yam. And I think a lot of times what you have in this world is like, you'll have somebody who builds like an education business, but then they're not like actually doing the thing that they're educating people on. And for us it's like our, our have a few different businesses that we're working on and Pinterevum is like, that's what, that's what we do. And so yeah, not only is it valuable for us to have these conversations, but we know it's also valuable for other people because we are creators and we work with creators at Food Blogger Pro. So it's been a labor of love that we've had for a decade now, showing up and working with other people and learning alongside other people, people how to be digital creators and create food content online. And we've been able to connect with great folks like yourself, Kate, and have been able to partner. Like we mentioned that we use Simplepen and can recommend them to other creators as well. So want to do a simple pin shout out as well. For anybody who is interested in working with somebody who understands this, obviously it's like you have a deep knowledge in a specific area that's really important for anybody who's a digital creator. And the discount is in the link. It's like built into the link. So if you're not a member and you're interested in signing up, you can just click on that link and it will automatically be applied in the chat area there. For anybody tuning in live. But it's been great, Kate. Like it's awesome to have you as an expert. It's awesome to have these conversations with you. I know for us what happens is I learn from them, you know, apply them to kind of best practices that we have and obviously we work with you as well. And thanks everybody. Tuning in. One of the things that I like to do and make sure that anybody who's listening switches over to everyone when you're chatting here. But would just love to hear one little nugget that people have or like a takeaway that people have because I think it helps us to like see what other people are learning and then to take those nuggets for ourselves. And I'm all about, you know, and.

[A]

It helps fuel our creativity when we're coming off of a holiday break.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

What it's um.

[B]

But I know for me it was just the piece that stuck out is that idea of saves and the importance of saves and how that's a metric that's important within Pinterest. Like when we are thinking of content, you know, is that in some platforms it's important to have shares, you know, other platforms it's important like YouTube, it's like viewability, how much are people viewing through a video? But that idea of saving is one that stuck out to me. And as, as we think about creating content, Tammy said learning about the save analytics Emily mentioned it was helpful to get a little walkthrough for Pinterest trends. Tammy mentioned trends and predictions as well. And obviously we can see these other ones as, as folks post those as they come in. So save saves, pinning frequency, new content for Susanna, a lot of great stuff.

[A]

I think for me it was just good to hear, you know, just the little questions and the things that you guys are really wrestling with with and struggling through. And I just appreciated this reminder. I think even for myself as we go into a new year to really see this platform is a really valuable, not only traffic driving platform but information platform about the people who are engaging with our pins. Like oftentimes I forget that and I just get into my own head who they are and even as I spent an hour last night just kind of perusing Pinterest looking at my stats from the last year I just learned so much about what they like and it sometimes it's not what I think they will like, you know.

[B]

Yeah right. Zuma food says thank you. I see Pinterest differently and Valuable Kim says it's great to know what I should focus on one or two socials instead of trying to do capital all capital the capital thing don't do all the which is great.

[A]

So for sure. Well thanks everybody. Enjoy your day. Thank you for joining us for this hour. We value valuable your time and Bjork thank you for your wisdom, knowledge and every Everybody go join food blogger pro. All right.

[B]

Yeah I appreciate it.

[A]

See you later. All right. Bye.