← Simple Pin Podcast: Simple ways to boost your business using Pinterest
Simple Pin Podcast: Simple ways to boost your business using Pinterest
Simple, no-BS way to optimize Pinterest sales
00:36:16
Loading summary
Transcript28 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hey there and welcome back to another episode of the Simple Pen podcast. As you might have picked up on, or maybe not, depending on if you've listened to the last four or five episodes, I have been diving into conversations with people who specialize in conversions. Whether it was like Dama Jew where we talked about cold traffic, whether it was Shlisha from Banyan Agency talking about email or even video, we have had really great guests. And I feel like this episode with Kelsey Silver simple, no BS ways to convert your Pinterest traffic really puts a great bookend on this unintentional series where you can get some ideas, some tips about how to begin to evaluate what is working and not working and when you can make adjustments and when you shouldn't make adjustments. I, as I have in all of the last episodes, taken away so many notes and my wheels are turning with what we'll talk about or what we talk about with Pinterest. In the middle of the episode we start talking about UTMs, we start getting a little bit geeky. So if you are new to Pinterest marketing, if you're new to the online world and you've just begun listening to this podcast, keep listening. Don't get stuck on the how, just listen to the what. And I think there's so many good what in quote takeaways from this particular episode. And yeah, that's all I'm going to say about that. It's just I was delighted with where our conversation went and I hope that it's encouraging to you in your business as you are trying to figure out how to convert Pinterest traffic. And the encouragement I have for you is something we address in this episode. That bigger doesn't always mean more money. It doesn't mean that you have to have so many followers on Pinterest, which don't really matter anyway. But we're going to talk about it in a future episode. It doesn't matter how many sessions you're getting. There is a way to convert the audience from Pinterest that will make you money. And we're going to talk about that. She has a great freebie. She's going to share at the end, so make sure you scroll down below for any links that we have talked about. I'll make sure and include them in the description. But before we dive into the episode, I do want to let you know that right now our Simple Pin Inner Circle is open for enrollment. What is the Inner Circle? It is a small cohort. Cohort of people that we take through our pinterest coaching. Now this coaching is designed in a strategic six week format that goes from evaluating your Pinterest account, evaluating your images, building a keyword bank, building a strategy and executing on all of that. It is an intense coaching, I'm not going to lie. Some people get into it and they're like, whoa, this is a lot of work but anything that you're going to invest in is sure, you could buy a course, but honestly that might end up in your inbox. And the reason we want to teach in this way is that we want to take the teaching of a course and we want to take the strategy calls that we give to our clients in those one to one ways and we want to build it into a group program. There's no more than 20 people at a time. We actually prefer right around 15. It's a very small group and it's super affordable when it comes to comparing it to the price of management or even other masterminds that you might get into. This is taught by my team. It is very experienced and qualified account specialists and team members that have been managing Pinterest accounts for years. This is best for somebody that wants to maintain control over over their Pinterest marketing. They probably do not want to hire it out or their budget isn't large enough to hire out Pinterest management or they're coming back to Pinterest after spending a long time away and they want to reset. This simple pin inner circle is a great reset. Seven weeks. We're going to go through everything and our next cohort will be in the fall. So if you want to do it now, during spring, this is a great time. I will say if you have a busy spring, hold off until fall. Oftentimes people will come to us and they say, I have a vacation, I have a child graduating, I have all these things. And we're like pump the brakes. You do not want to invest in this and not get a hundred percent out of it because you're doing so many other things. So all that to say if you are interested in joining, you have time. You really want to dive into learning Pinterest marketing. From experts in a small group coaching environment coach to simplepin media.com IC that link will be down below in the description. We would love to work with you and we would love to serve your business with that, let's dive into today's episode with Kelsey.
- [04:59]
B
You're listening to the Simple Pen podcast Pinterest for business advice that goes down smooth and easy. Here's your host, Kate All.
- [05:14]
A
Kelsey, welcome to the Simple Pen podcast.
- [05:16]
B
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited for this combo today.
- [05:19]
A
Yes, me too. I did a lot of digging before we dove in, and I love that you call yourself a data detective. So I can make a lot of assumptions about what that means, but you tell me, what does that mean?
- [05:33]
B
Sure. So I'll start with the fact that in my decade of corporate analytics, my avatar in, you know, the little image that you put next to your name and all of my corporate communications was Stitch from Lilo and Stitch in a Sherlock Holmes outfit. Because as an analyst, I see myself as someone that comes from a place of curiosity, and I'm always curious about what story is the data telling us. But I also am a licensed therapist, and so I also combine that with the perspective of a lot of us come to see data from a lens of trauma, whether it's the burnt out gifted and talented kid, whether it's the red pen all over our test scores, all the time. And so when I say that I'm a data detective, what I'm really saying is I'm looking at the whole picture. I'm looking at all the information in your business and digging in to see what connections can I make to actually get to the root of the problem or the solution. Because a lot of times people come to me thinking there's a problem, but in fact, we just need to double down on something that's already working really, really well.
- [06:50]
A
It's interesting that you describe it that way because I've never heard anybody say that, but now that you have said it with, it resonates with me. Because I am afraid of data a lot of times because. And I have a phrase that I use which is pick your head up and look at it. Because a lot of times you want to make decisions based on your gut, based on how you feel, or even based on how somebody else is performing. I also have a common phrase in my business, like, I can't chase someone else's success because it's not mine. So when did you have, I guess, your aha moment about seeing data as something that people are afraid of?
- [07:31]
B
Yeah. So I've always been a huge numbers nerd, even when I was teeny tiny. But I also had this. This psychology background as well. And in 2016, my specialty in therapy was adolescents who had experienced sexual violence and resulted in drug use. So trauma with a capital T. And I burnt out of that job really, really quickly. But I wanted to still serve that population. I was very fortunate that My company allowed me to transition into a technology based administrative role. And it was really in those moments when I started digging into the numbers behind the people that I had worked with, because I really started to see that clinicians and you know, I was in a healthcare space, clinicians saw data as punitive, but because I kind of had my foot in both worlds, I saw it as more information that I could support them to support their clients with. And so when I started the data change in that organization, we were able to come from a place of none of this is punitive. All of it is to help support you, support your clients better. And when I transition into the business world, because like I said, I spent about a decade in analytics at that organization and when I started serving small business owners, I saw the same things that I had seen in my clinician. I saw the same fear, the same worry about what they were doing wrong, the same concern about how it was going to tell them how they failed, the same fear that it was just going to beat them down further. And they said, well, what if we approach it from the same exact perspective, this perspective of curiosity, how can I learn more about the people I'm serving so that I can serve them better? Because we all got into this business partly to make money, but partly for impact. And so if I can come at it from a perspective to show you to serve on a silver platter, how you can serve and make better impact, the data becomes a whole lot less scary and a whole lot more supportive.
- [09:54]
A
Yes, it definitely does. And oftentimes I think too we can approach the data. And actually this is more of a question for you. Do you see people approach data with kind of a bias in mind that they're looking for something. And I was thinking about your transition from being a full time clinician into data that oftentimes we want something to be true, but the data just proves that it's not. How do you kind of make sure that when, whether it's clinicians or whether it's online business owners, you really can approach the data being unbiased, like open, and welcome to the surprise of what might be.
- [10:33]
B
So it's interesting. So it's a lovely question because sometimes you want to be biased when you look at the data and sometimes you don't. So sometimes when you need a boost and you need a confidence, pick me up, by all means, look at your data through that lens because it's going to reinvigorate you to reinvest into your business even energetically. But often when you're looking at, how can I. How can I tweak things to serve me and my clients better? You need to get out of your echo chamber. So that's why I always come back to stitch in the detective's costume. Because if you're just curious, oh, I wonder if you approach from a place of wonder and curiosity instead of trying to prove a hypothesis, often, not only does that get rid of some of that trauma mess, because often if you are trying to prove a hypothesis, you could prove yourself wrong. So taking the hypotheses out of it and really getting creative and curious and full of wonder, almost childlike excitement of what can I dig up? And oftentimes that does exactly, like you said, open up a world of surprise. We. I did a VIP day with a client a few weeks ago, and we found out that a particular cohort of her population that she would have, if you had asked her, do you think these people are buying? She would have said, of course they are. Found out, like, 2% conversion in this population, offered them a coupon, got 10 extra sales, like, just those little, ooh, where can I pick up some sales? Some impact, some work just by being curious.
- [12:23]
A
Okay, so, yes, I love that you went there, because now my brain has lots of ideas. All right, so that is what we're talking about today is really how to make sales in really a simple, no B.S. kind of way. There's not this, like, backdoor trick nobody's telling anybody, but really looking at the data. And I think for a lot of Pinterest marketers, there's two things that I see happen. One is we look at the group think and the group data of what's happening. And we rely on the group data to tell us what people will buy and not buy or click or not click on and less into the data of our own. And something that you said, I was looking through your Instagram too, is you said your biggest audience aren't isn't your actual buyers. And I thought, oh, that seems like such a simple statement, but I want to kind of unpack that because that is what we're driven to do as marketers. Bigger, better, more impact, more views, more clicks. Right. But this challenges that and says, well, maybe your biggest audience isn't where the money is. So talk a little bit about that.
- [13:35]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So that's my biggest red flag in all of data, is that the numbers of people in your audience likely have very little to do with the actual buyers. Being a psychology background, I love exploring customer behavior. So when I do My VIP days, for example, that's the first thing we dive into, is the customer behavior. But most people start from the beginning. They start from the customer behavior of an audience member. But that leads to a lot of extraneous data that confuses you. And I don't mean you being the business owner, but it confuses the whole strategy really. So when I, when I work with people, I always suggest you work backwards. What, what is the behavior of your buyer? Look at the buyer themselves. How did they find you? What did they do before they found you? What, how did they interact with you and your business before they even clicked on that buy button? What did they do after they clicked the buy button? Are they like me and keep 16 tabs open with the, with the shopping cart ready to go, but I never actually end up buying because that's my ADHD self? Or are they the immediately click through, never abandon a cart, always good to go. So when, especially if you're on Pinterest, right, You might get. This is a lot of times you'll hear like Instagram marketers are talking about viral isn't always great, right? Same thing with Pinterest. Just because a pin goes viral doesn't mean it's going to bring in the right people. So if a pin does go viral, we want to make sure that it's perfectly tailored. And I use perfectly very generally here, because we are not looking for perfection. Data never wants to be perfect. We want it to be tailored to bring in the just right person. So some of the data we can start to look at is for those buyers that came from Pinterest. It's like a word problem, right? It's the train going at 50 miles an hour from Boston. So of the buyers that came from Pinterest, what were the pins that brought those people in? You're not looking at the pins that brought people onto your email list that never bought. You're looking at the people at the pins that brought buyers in.
- [16:07]
A
Yes, because then you get so much more information. Especially Pinterest is cold traffic, right? They have 16 tabs open and they have 10 boards filled with a hundred pins each. Of all the things. Yeah, they are. They are the. They gather all their options and they take a while to make a purchase. Common behavior is six months before they will make a purchase, before they will travel somewhere, before they will work on a project. And I love that you drilled it down to what are the people? The people who are actually buying, what are they buying and where are they coming from? A great example just to share with those who are listening is a lot of people will show me their analytics and they will have that viral pin, the pin that will live forever. Right? And that's very common on Pinterest to have something that you pinned five years ago do really well. But it's not necessarily converting in sales or maybe even it's an infographic. This is a common older pin where it has all the information. Somebody showed me, actually they had a magnesium breakdown and it was all the supplements about magnesium. And people kept pinning this. And she said, but I can't get people to buy the actual magnesium that I am selling. And I told her it's because looking at that pin, all the information that they need is there. There's nothing else that they need. And so drilling down to those buyers now, the question that I have is what are the great markers that are going to tell you information about what they're buying? Because I automatically go to, okay, I gotta click on the pin, then I gotta click on the sales page, then I got a purchase. Is there more that we should be looking at?
- [17:52]
B
Yes, but I want to preface that with it's not actually more, it's potentially different. So I'm always very cautious about saying that you should measure more. Very cautious about that because we're already overwhelmed as business owners. We're already approaching this. I assume everyone has some data trauma. Like I just assume that outright. And so you're already coming in with a lens of discontent around looking at your analytics. So let's start with maybe a little bit different. Now I'm going to go through a couple scenarios here. Feel free to, you know, to pause me or redirect me here. But let's say that your pin goes to a blog post. Let's start with that first. One fantastic way to start measuring is let's just say, see, let's say you have five different pins that lead to this blog post. Put a different UTM link in each of those five pins because then your Google Analytics is going to tell you which of those pins is leading the most traffic to your site. Okay, you starting to get used to just seeing the data and starting to see, okay, this is getting helpful, curious, interesting, what kind of graphics are working now let's take it one step further further and add a key events to Google Analytics that says mark this as a conversion when they sign up for my email list. Okay, now we're getting one extra layer. We're still not looking at true conversions yet. We're just looking at that extra layer of this pin gets more traffic to the blog post. This pin gets less traffic, but a much higher conversion rate onto my list. So that means that the pin that gets that higher conversion rate is bringing in the perfect client. The other one leaves enough curiosity that people want to watch, want to see the blog post, but the one that's getting that key event, that's bringing in the person that actually wants to know more. Okay, now we're going to layer on the next level. That's going to be the nurture. And that is again, you said it could be six months, right? So they convert to your email list from the blog post. Well, we can actually on a lot of systems, you can pull a little bit of that UTM link into the information about your client, different for each technology platform. So I won't get into the tech of it now, but let's say you kind of have a good idea of which pin each person that joined your email list came through on. Well, now you've got the really juicy stuff because now when they make a purchase, you've got that info. And so you have now tracked them from click to sign up to nurture to sale. And so we've added a layer every now and then so we're not freaking our brains out. We're adding these layers until we have a really robust data set so that we can say, of all the people that purchased magnesium, 32% came from the infographic, that, that was only half the infographic. And they could get the printout when they signed up to your email list. And then the other 60% or so came from a little mini video that told, you know, that was just me saying a hook and then it directed to the blog post. Well, that's really valuable information because you know, now that your buyers are engaged with video, with audio, so the people that are buy that are going to buy that magnesium supplement for you, they are more interested in that engaging content than a visual. Your visual people, they're great. They're not really your bike. Does that make sense?
- [21:54]
A
It does. And actually, so I, there's a couple things I want to note. So for anybody listening who is new to this and we're kind of blowing their minds right now and they're thinking about data. One of we mentioned a couple things. So the acronym utm, which is essentially just a tracking link, you add a little bit of code, you create it in bitly. I used to be so scared of these. I didn't. I was like, what am I going to screw up and how am I Going to track that.
- [22:18]
B
Nothing. Literally nothing.
- [22:19]
A
But I love them. I will say to anybody who is nervous about using them, please do. There is a lot that you can learn. And I've been so delighted and surprised by the information that I've gotten as a result of it. And on Pinterest, oftentimes, you will see in your analytics a pin that is driving traffic to your website that somebody else owns, which means you can't edit it. So if you do run across that, it's still important for you to build these tracking metrics into it. But you probably can't add the UTM there, but you can see the actual pin. So I'm just for those who are like, darn it, somebody else has my pin. Don't worry about it, you can still get the data. So camping on all of that, you. You did that whole walkthrough for us. Let's say this process, through that nurture, right, there starts to be something that doesn't look right or it's. It's broken. Right. Like, we're not getting to the conversion. How do you begin to extract, like, where it's broken?
- [23:21]
B
Perfect. So that's the joy of the UTM link, right? Because you start the very, very beginning. You're not trying to do the guesswork at the start. So let's say that you are getting people to your blog post. So we know that the pins are driving traffic, and we know which pins are driving traffic. Then you can start to tweak. Just the next step. So I come from a background of continuous quality improvement. It says, don't burn it to the ground, ever. You make small tweaks, you wait. Then you make another tweak and you wait. So let's say that we know that the pins are working. They're driving traffic to the blog post. And we can use other examples. It's just. That's the one that.
- [24:06]
A
No, that's great here.
- [24:07]
B
Okay, perfect. So then you can, for example, and I'm going to say a lot of technology stuff here, but you can do all of this within most platforms. But I love Hot Jar. It's like a little mini unicorn. Love me a good Hot jar. So you put Hot Jar code on that blog post. You can actually start to see where people are clicking. You can start to see if they're scrolling down in the webpage. And so you can get. Again, we're getting curious about, are people even reading this whole blog post? If they're not, then what's going on with the blog post? Okay, they're getting all the way to the bottom of the blog post, but they're not clicking in. Did I give everything away that they don't want more or did I not give enough value that they don't want more? And you can start to get curious about that, but let's back up a step and say that something's not looking right with the pin. So we're seeing in our analytics, we're seeing that a pin is getting pinned constantly, but we're not seeing any of that UTM in our Google Analytics. Okay, so we have great information there too, because we can see in our Pinterest analytics that this pin is go. Is. Is a knockout. Right? They're, they're pinning the, the magnesium infographic, but they're never clicking over to the website. That's when we can start playing with the different versions of that pin. Whether it's changing the visual, changing the caption, however we want to do it and start to see, okay, can I do both? Can I keep the virality of it, but make it interesting enough that it's pulling to the website, but it's one step at a time. It's getting curious about. So you look at the data and you work from the end, you work backwards until you see where the drop off happens. You go up and you get curious about that one space right where that drop off happened.
- [26:09]
A
Okay, so now you're, you're getting curious. We're slowing down, we're optimizing for conversions. One of the things I joke about in business is that there's two types of people. There are the, the patient, the consistent, those who are fact finders. And then you have the quick starts who are like, quick start and burnout. Right? And so I'm thinking of the quick start right now that's like, just give me the numbers. Or they, they get so excited about an idea and they get so inspired, especially after listening to you, that they start off and then they have all this data. Where do they put it? Like, what would you say is the best container to begin to track? Because that is an overwhelming piece for a lot of people. Even when I speak, people will ask me, how do you keep track of the pins that you're pinning? Which I don't recommend. You keep track of every pin, but in this illustration, keep track of the pins that have a utm. And I will suggest you can start with a simple spreadsheet, like, don't make it complicated. And it, I can just hear people just dying inside, like, oh my gosh, a spreadsheet so what would you tell people that know they need to go the distance with this? Know they need a big broader set of data, but they're just don't have the follow through.
- [27:32]
B
I think the first question is know thy or the first statement is know thyself. So do that self reflection. That really helps you understand how does your brain work? I mean I said earlier I have serious, serious adhd. If I tried to track everything, I would be miserable. I would over track and I would end up lost in a data hole. So for those of you that really, really want to dive in, the first thing is let's assume that you're really ahead of the game and you've already got UTM links set up because you've been following Kate for forever and so you know that UTMs are gold mined. Okay, great. Take a look at your Google Analytics. Google Analytics already has built in reports. You don't have to make anything new. It's already got the tools for you. And start looking at that source plus URL. Google it. Don't worry, it's an easy one to find. Source + URL acquisition report. Start there and stay curious. If something jumps out at you, then you can make a goal around it. So you go in without bias, without really wanting to prove a hypothesis. But you still need to have some boundaries, which I know can be hard for us, especially us go getters. So let's say that you're like, you know what, I really want to drive. I'm going to be stuck on this magnesium supplement. That's a great example. Really want to drive sales to this magnesium supplement. Okay, great. No problem. Go into Google Analytics, start with that landing page. And again, we're just getting curious. Are people landing on that blog post? Are they landing on that sales page? What's going on? What's driving traffic? Where's the customer acquisition coming from? We're still not even looking at who actually bought. We're just getting curious about the data we already have. If there's something that jumps out at you, let's say that a different pin starts jumping out, you've got the utm, then you can make a goal around it. Okay, I know that this kind of pin is driving people to actually land on this page. So now you can start to replicate it. Let's see if I can increase page views by 5% within the next week and you maybe make three or four other pins that are similar. You try to drive some traffic. Boom, you hit your 5% goal. Gorgeous. You now know how to Bring traffic in. So now you can go to the next step. We're bringing traffic in. Is it the right traffic? And how can I increase conversions? So that's when you take the next step. So it's really starting with one small goal. So if you're a real go getter and you're wanting to jump in, as soon as you end this episode, take a look at the data you already have, don't go jumping in trying to measure a bunch of things. I promise you, you'll still get your dopamine hit, go into Google Analytics, start poking around at where your traffic is currently coming from and see if there's anything to double down on. Because it'll give you that dopamine hit, it'll give you those quick wins, and it will absolutely still have bottom line roi, return on investment, but it won't kind of blow everything up.
- [30:45]
A
I want to share a practical example of something that I'm doing, and I hope this will encourage people, is I've been doing what you have suggested, utming things and then looking at the page where they land and kind of evaluating do they sign up and then do they make it to the thank you page? What percentage of that happens? And I've always wrestled with, I'm not naturally a copywriter. Obviously that's not what I do or I wouldn't be having a podcast about Pinterest. But I like writing and I think there's some part of me that always wrestles with should this be longer, should this be shorter, should this be this or this. But you brought up something earlier which I think is so good, which is using a tool like hotjar to see where they're going and just even hitting that part and optimizing that makes huge gains for people like that really is the simple no BS way to lead to conversions. It's spending time on one of these blocks and going, I'm going to make this really good to where I can just get them to the thank you page. If I can nail this part, then I can get to the nurture part of the thank you and go real deep on that and then I can go real deep on the next. But I think in this world of seeing Facebook ads of six figure launches and all these kinds of things and make a lot of money, we just want to tackle it all. So I share that. To say I'm taking it one piece at a time and I'm learning so much. I've been Google Analytics. I use Microsoft Clarity too. That's been a great tool for me as well. So find the tool that works for how you think your brain, right? Like keep it simple. Don't attach to someone else else's tool. People talk about airtable all the time. Can't do it. I can't do it. I think it sounds dreamy, it sounds amazing. But. But this is important to think about the lift in order for me to figure that out and then put it into my business is way too many hours. And there's some people, the lift for them is like a snap. They will just get it right away. So I think those are the things that when we talk about simple, no BS ways, this is it. It's not the put your button in a different place or do this or do this. And we've been talking actually for the last four weeks about conversions through video, through cold, all of that. And I love that we're kind of capping it off with you because now it's the tracking point now and it's iterating on what you already have.
- [33:19]
B
Iterating is the perfect word in. You'll hear this in corporate speak all the time, but it applies to us just as well as business owners. We are taught to do everything. We are told that it's our responsibility. We're told that the world falls on our shoulders. So in, in our daily life, a lot of times, at least in the people that I have worked with, it feels like you have to burn it all and build it up, and burn it all and build it up. But iterating, it lives in the corporate world for a reason. These are, you know, companies that, that have. Have all the money they could want to do anything they want, and yet they just continue to perfect the thing. And so if we can take the lesson out of that book, as much as we have rejected corporate in our desire to be entrepreneurs, if we can take a page out of that book and say there's probably a reason here, they're iterating because our foundations are good. If you're bringing in money now, if you've never made a sale ever, then maybe you've got an argument. But if you're bringing in money and it's just not where you want it to be yet you are nine times at 99 times out of a hundred. You're just at a place of iteration. Even the greats, all those people that you probably idolize and wish you could have launches like they do, when's the last time you saw them burning it to the ground and starting crashing?
- [34:54]
A
Yeah, so true. That's such a good reminder. Kelsey, I have loved this. It's been such a great conversation. You know, as we talked about before we even hit record, we were open to meander and watch it go where it was going to go. And I think it's the perfect book into what we've been talking about with conversions. So where can people go to connect with you?
- [35:15]
B
Absolutely. If you're curious about those greats out in the business world and and want to know a little bit more about what they measure themselves, I've got a fantastic freebie I'd love for you to to download. And that's@kelseysilver.com metrics. It's million dollar metrics. I asked 15 experts out in the field, if they were stuck on a desert island and could only measure one thing, what would that thing be? And they give me the details. But I absolutely love a good DM conversation. So hit me up on Instagram. It's Kelsey East. Silver, you got to make sure the E is in there, but I am your resident data whisperer, and I absolutely would love to have a conversation. Any questions, you need, anything, just DM me the word Kate and I'll know where you came from.
- [35:59]
A
Awesome. Well, thanks, Kelsey. I really appreciate it.
- [36:02]
B
Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute joy.