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- [00:00]
A
Hey there and welcome back to another episode of the Simple Pin Podcast. Today we are going to be covering the state of Etsy. So Pinterest and Etsy have had a weird relationship over the years. It's been a love hate relationship. Should you use Pinterest for Etsy? So I wanted to bring in somebody who coaches Etsy sellers as to the best way to sell their products in order to ask her how it is Etsy sellers are doing and what does the landscape look like for them. Her name is Dylan Jarris and I know you're going to love this conversation with her and I hope if you are an Etsy seller or you have a friend that is an Etsy seller, you would pass along this interview to them. Before we dive in though, I want to let you know that today's episode is brought to you by Pin Generator, the Pinterest marketing tool that saves you tons of time creating and scouting scheduling pins. You can put in any URL into Pin Generator and it will generate pins for you using the images and content from that URL. And best of all, you can create your own dynamic templates to suit your brand perfectly. Check out Pin Generator's awesome AI features that make creating unique Pinterest content a total breeze. Use the code SPM, short for Simple Pin Media, to get 20% off any of the plans this week only. Thanks again to Pin Generator for being today's sponsor.
- [01:39]
B
You're listening to the Simple Pin Podcast, Pinterest, for business advice that goes down smooth and easy. Here's your host, Kate All.
- [01:54]
A
Dylan, welcome to the Simple Pen Podcast.
- [01:56]
B
Thanks for having me, Kate. Excited to be here.
- [01:58]
A
Yeah, I am so excited to chat with you and you and I connected because I was on your podcast and that after that episode that we recorded together, I started to think about where Etsy was at and I think especially taking into consideration our whole economic landscape and how hard it is for small business owners to really get Lyft these days. I thought, well, Etsy is a whole community of small business owners and you are with them day to day. So talk a little bit about kind of the rumblings that you're hearing, like what are your students in your community saying about what this current landscape is in regards to being an Etsy seller?
- [02:36]
B
Yes. So there's been a lot of changes on Etsy specifically within the last year, and they came out with some updates on product categories in July and now they're changing the algorithm a little bit here as of October 1st. Now, there's a lot of misconceptions happening where people think, okay, I'm not even going to try. Sounds like, I think sometimes when people hear there's change, they think it's automatically bad change. And like, okay, I'm going to, that's my excuse to now not try. Um, when in, in fact it, it actually makes the Etsy landscape more competitive in a good way because there's more ways to compete right now. So there's some new categories, sourced or handpicked by a seller where you can actually sell things on Etsy that you're just curating. So that's, that was not allowed in the past. You would get kicked off swiftly for that.
- [03:32]
A
Yeah.
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B
So it's really opening up this category for people who aren't super crafty, but maybe they have a good eye for design and they know they want to ship high margin physical products. Which it can be a higher margin, faster growing arena on Etsy. So this just opens up a whole new playing field which is exciting. And even if you're not doing that completely, you could just integrate it into your shop a little bit. So if anything, the changes on Etsy right now, they are exciting and it just means skill will win.
- [04:05]
A
Skill will win. Okay, so when you think about Etsy sellers and I mean, when did Etsy start actually? What year?
- [04:11]
B
Oh my gosh, when I was probably in high school at this point. Okay.
- [04:16]
A
But it was early 2000s, right?
- [04:18]
B
Yeah, like over 15 years ago. Yeah.
- [04:21]
A
Okay. So there's been this seller movement of kind of the, the like newbies in the beginning and they were kind of the originators. And then you have things changing so much now and all this different ways that people can promote their products. What do you find is kind of this, I guess, trajectory of an Etsy seller in the. Not explaining it really well, but I guess I would say do we have a lot of new Etsy sellers entering into the scene or do we have more seasoned ones that are getting better at adapting to these changes or better at like you know, saying, okay, this is my business, I'm going to be in it forever. Or those who are saying, I've been in it forever, I'm done. So maybe the question is more like where do we see also the seller shifting? Not so much the Etsy platform shifting, but kind of the sellers that we see that are out there.
- [05:12]
B
Yeah. So I would say there's three buckets, really. One is the OGs, the original people, they've been on Etsy. You know, I'd, I would say at least 7, 8, 9 plus years and they've seen all the changes. And right now they are either relying on what worked for them then, which means they're seeing a decrease in sales right now, or they have been adapting and they've been staying ahead of things and using their position in their rank to their advantage, but still adapting to maintain that position. The second bucket of people is people who started shops in 2020, where it's like, hey, I've got all this time. I'm gonna do some side hustles and throw some stuff up a little bit recklessly, maybe a little less intentional behind it. But they threw things up and their shops are still open. But they might have been on Etsy for several years and have like 20 sales. So there's that group, which they're not really prioritizing the business. It was really easy to get a couple sales back then. People had that, you know, the checks, the weekly checks, government, and now it's different. So they haven't necessarily put in the same effort because it was easy then. Why do I have to put on all this effort right now? And then there's the new people who are starting jobs, really, I would say after like 2022, right, when those stimulus checks, that funding kind of dried up. Right. It's, it's not so much money flowing as quickly in the economy. Inflation is up. Maybe they're starting a shop to have an other stream of income. Their current job's not cutting it. They just need extra to maintain their lifestyle. Maybe just for job security reasons, like they don't feel secure in their job right now and they need that extra source of income. Well, those people are looking at Etsy, I would say, much more strategically because there's a lot more riding on it. It's not just, I'm home, I, I have time. It's, I need to make extra money. So there's a new wave of people really coming in with a strategic angle.
- [07:18]
A
Right now that is very fascinating to think about. So with these new ones that are coming in and thinking about marketing, right? So thinking about how to market your shop, how to get out there, I've always seen this tension for sellers, whether they're. They're creating their own product or sourcing it or whatever it is that there's this passion for the product, but there's this struggle with marketing. Marketing. How do you help that Etsy seller get over that hurdle of where they're going to market and how they're going to market? Like, how do you push them past that?
- [07:52]
B
I think this is one of the biggest slip ups newer sellers have or people who don't necessarily have a marketing or e commerce or retail background is we start with the product and then we're like, who's going to buy it? Okay, like we're trying to like, you know, we're like standing on a street corner with the product, basically saying who wants it? And we have to reverse engineer this. So it's okay to start with a product that's okay. Some of us have crafts or, you know, skills or maybe it's digital products or whatever it is that we're kind of good at and we want to monetize something, we already have that product, that's fine. But we've got to really put the product aside for a second and start with the customer. Who are the people who are going to have consistent income who would buy this? We don't just want to sell it to as many people as possible. We want to make sure we start with the customer and then we look at where are those customers spending their time? Are they on Facebook actually, are they in Facebook groups? Are they kind of scrolling in? Are they just on Instagram and TikTok? Are they using social media for entertainment right now? Are they using it for inspiration and escape? Maybe that's Pinterest. Right? Where is your customer? And then really making sure we're prioritizing that platform.
- [09:07]
A
So fascinating. So out of all of those, what would you say, or I guess where would you say most Etsy sellers are finding success with their marketing? Which I know it's not the same for everybody, but if you kind of had to paint a broad stroke, would you say this platform and this platform seem to be doing really well for them.
- [09:30]
C
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- [10:13]
B
Yes. So in terms of social media and platforms, you could spend like a lot of time on each of them. Right. And you could go down this rabbit hole and you have to really Be intentional about what is the goal? Like, just trying to get followers or views, right. Maybe you're on TikTok and you're like, wow, this went viral. That doesn't mean you got sales. And if we're prioritizing the wrong thing, which, you know, some platforms thinking views, it's not translating into conversions. So what I'm seeing as the best platforms for actual conversions are platforms that a customer goes to and expects to click on something and leave. And to me, that's Facebook and Pinterest. So they both have a really specific purpose. I would say Facebook short term, right? You can use groups. People go to Facebook with a problem. You know, my. We all know, like, if you're a mom, like, my kid has this rash. What does this look like?
- [11:17]
A
Totally.
- [11:18]
B
Like, we've all seen those posts. It's kind of like SOS what do I do? Any recommendations? And people are quick to click, quick to purchase when they're coming from Facebook. Now, Pinterest is more of the long game, but it's, I would say, equally as important. And the quality of traffic is, I would say it can be equally as good as Facebook in terms of intentionality because they're expecting to go through Pinterest and to actually click and leave Pinterest, whereas I wouldn't. I would not prioritize Instagram or. Or TikTok, because those platforms, their goal is to keep the user on the.
- [11:55]
A
Platform a hundred percent. And I, I also think too, like, I rarely, as an Instagram user specifically, I rarely leave. Like, I don't know what people's websites look like. I know them and I know that they might sell a product, but. But it's very rare for me to click off and go look at it. And so that just illustrates your point even more. And I never really have heard many people talk about Facebook in that way with products. But you're right. Like, that is a place where I would click off of Facebook and go look at something to get more information about it. So let's dive in a little bit to Pinterest and kind of what you hear on your side and a little bit of what I see. Over the years, there have been rumors that have circulated of Pandemic. Pinterest doesn't like Etsy, and I don't even know where those originate, to be honest. But actually, in my searches lately, I see a lot more Etsy products pop up in my feed, which is super cool because they have a lot of the information, they have the price, and they have those things. So what would you say is a general idea of using Pinterest? Do people want to dive into it for their marketing and selling their products? Or do you hear some of those too? A little bit like, I don't know if I want to use Pinterest. I don't know if they like Etsy sellers. What have you heard on your end?
- [13:15]
B
So I really think we need to squash the whole idea that Etsy doesn't want you to use Pinterest. They love, they love, love, love when you bring outside traffic. It's a good thing you're doing their marketing for them and to prove that they even have a share and save program where they give you special links to save on their transaction fees when you drive external traffic. So Etsy wants it, they want, they want that traffic. Now with Etsy sellers like the idea of social media, it can be very intimidating, right? Facebook, because it's a profile. It's like I'm, it's very much personal. Like, yes, I'm on Instagram, but I'm posting this. This is a picture in my house or my face. And Pinterest, it's much more anonymous where it's kind of like you can be a faceless brand there and, and it feels safer. And I would say it's also more mindless. You don't have to come up with a great hook and a, you know, like the perfect audio. And it's more mindless. It's an easy thing to do. At the end of the day when your mind is exhausted and you can't think anymore, you can still do Pinterest. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [14:31]
A
It's true. And I would say it's such a long game, right? So it's like you never know when your product is going to be searched or when somebody is going to click on it or when they're going to save it. And as we see Pinterest leaning into more E commerce, you know, connections and making it more E commerce forward, they are saying we want to shorten this time of buying. Like, we don't want you to find this Etsy product and then just save it to your board, revisit it a couple months later. We want you to see this and be able to click and go to the listing, see it, engage with it and decide if you want to buy fairly quickly, which is new for them. Right. Because it's been this thing where they've, they've known the long shopping time has been, you know, three to six months. But shortening that and making it a lot easier for Etsy sellers to get some of those integrations. So I don't know really the behind the scenes of Etsy and what's there, what do you see as far as being able to track analytics to have those integrations with Pinterest? Specifically on the Etsy kind of dashboard.
- [15:35]
B
Side side, it's right there, right in front of their faces. So Etsy sellers, you can all see where your traffic is coming from and it's under your external traffic coming from social. So you'll see different social platforms. Pinterest is right there, right? We for me, you know, without paying anything to Pinterest drove, it was half an over half a million visits to the shop. So it's not just views on your product, it's actual clicks to a listing. So you can absolutely track this and you can get onto the listing level as well. Which listings are getting the most traffic from Pinterest? What type of photo was that? That was on Pinterest? What lessons can I take from that and apply to my other listings? What is the SEO behind that listing? I mean, there's so much to it. You have all the information you need.
- [16:23]
A
That's amazing, actually, that you can drill down that far, because I know it wasn't that way probably like five or six years ago, you couldn't get that much information from. From it. So it's great that you can get even more. And you got half a million clicks to your shop from Pinterest. That's crazy. What did you learn from that experience? Just a. How was it for you knowing what they would buy or didn't buy? Like, tell me a little bit more about that.
- [16:47]
B
Yeah. So when you're looking at where to spend your time in your business too, you know, we always focus on. It's. It's kind of a theory from my business mentors, Alex and Leila Hermosi. But more better new. So always doing, starting with more of what's working. So instead of like just spending your first five years in your business trying all these new ideas, like everything is new. It doesn't give you time to get traction with any of those. So focusing on what's working. And when I saw certain trends getting picked up on Pinterest, okay, I'm going to create more of those listings. And even with the photos that did well on Pinterest and the imagery, I'm going to do more of that style. Right. So doubling down on what's working. And I think with Pinterest we have a very, I would say, repeatable, reliable process. That we do with our students for it where it's not overwhelming and it's just, I don't know when you have something that works consistently in your business, like it's so valuable.
- [17:49]
A
Yeah, I agree with that too. Like when you cast this wide net where you're trying to do all the things, you end up doing nothing and you end up like even tracking the data is so difficult because how can you evaluate, okay, I did this on Instagram, this on Facebook, this on TikTok, this on whatever Etsy marketing I need to do this on Pinterest. All of it together. You pretty much either give it way less than it needs, you can't really interpret the data and then you don't really walk away with this understanding of what's working and what's not working. So would you say with that your two that you would guide students on would be. Well, actually, I'm going to, I'll ask it this way. Would it be to give them the freedom to choose what they want or you guide them towards. Start with these two. Like these are a sure fire as far as marketing platforms.
- [18:42]
B
Yeah. So I've marketing is tricky, especially for business owners who are one person show. Because if I've realized if someone doesn't want to do something, they're just not going to do it. And so I cannot, you know, if someone doesn't want to show their face or doesn't, you know, they hate Facebook, they're not going to do it. Even if it's on the list that I give them of things to do, it's going to be the last thing they do and It'll be at 50% effort and execution. So ultimately I do make recommendations based on the person and what they're comfortable with. Some people like Pinterest might be the only thing they can do. Okay, so now we need a more robust Pinterest strategy. So if I had my choice and people were equally comfortable, I would say prioritize pretty equally, especially at the beginning. Facebook and Pinterest, very cool.
- [19:34]
A
Okay, so where do you see Etsy going in the next two to three years? What, what excites you about how it's growing for sellers?
- [19:44]
B
Yes. So it still is the fastest place to build your brand and they are doing a lot on their side to drive more Etsy customer loyalty to the Etsy platform. So there's some new things coming out like the deals and drop program for Etsy insiders where people are opting into this insider membership and getting exclusive access to products and different deals. So I think, you know, Etsy is doing, putting a lot more effort into marketing strategies that we can benefit from as sellers, you know, because running an insider's membership, let's be real, like do we have the bandwidth to do that ourselves? Right.
- [20:22]
A
It's exhausting.
- [20:24]
B
Right, right. So they're doing things like that for us, which tells me they are putting, you know, sellers and both customers in, in a bucket of how can we mutually benefit both people? And we spoke with Etsy in August, Etsy leadership, and we just talked about how they really are wanting to put their community of sellers and buyers, you know, in their needs first. So trying to deeply understand that. And to me that told me, hey, they are listening and they do want to know how they can improve.
- [20:57]
A
You know, one question I didn't ask you that this kind of brought up for me was that I don't know if you would call it attention but that that need to, to have an outside website. Right. Like there's always been this conversation between third party hosting, which is Etsy versus self hosting. Do you see that tension still existing for Etsy sellers or do they like the safety of Etsy just does everything in the way that they're going, supporting more sellers, getting more loyalty programs. What's the consensus with I own my website vs Etsy owns website? The platform?
- [21:33]
B
Yeah. You know, the sellers we work with take Etsy pretty seriously and their business pretty seriously, which means they don't necessarily want all their eggs in one platform, but they do realize and recognize that Etsy is going to be the driver of the traffic. And if they have a website, they are fully responsible for that traffic. And how much is that going to cost? What would that require them to learn to drive that traffic? So both is really the route that a lot of people are going now because you know, the purpose of Etsy is security for their lifestyle, their family and that business, to make that business more secure. Having your own platform is a benefit also for resale purposes. So if you are looking at building up your brand, wanting to sell your business, you, you can't sell the shop itself but you know, having the website is going to be really important at that point.
- [22:28]
A
Yeah, that is that tension too. Right. Because there's so many great features when you have a third party hosting site like Etsy, it's really easy to have it plug and play. And then when you own your own website, you're dealing with tech, you're dealing with like all these extra layers that you didn't have to deal with before. So it makes sense that at some point when you do get your business to that point, you want to own more of it and you understand the business flow of it. Maybe it's that step that comes later down the line. What is the thing that you would tell anybody today who they have this product idea that's been rattling around or maybe they've been selling locally. They haven't really. Maybe they're just doing like marketplace or something like that. What would you tell them about starting an Etsy shop today? Late 2024, early 25.
- [23:18]
B
Yeah. So everyone who I talk to, especially the people who've been thinking about it a long time, their biggest regret is waiting. Especially once you're making money, you will be kicking yourself so hard, like, wow, the opportunity cost of not starting. Six months ago, I'm now making $10,000 a month. That could be like, you know, with a compounding effect on that over 60 grand you just lost. So what is the cost of not starting? You don't know yet. But eventually when you do start six months later, you'll realize what that cost truly was. So do not wait. You know, you're going to have to really. The speed at which you can make decisions is a huge reflection of the potential success of your business. So just take the first step and you will not regret starting. But you will regret not starting.
- [24:11]
A
Yeah, that's a good reminder. And it's a good reminder in today's current environment because there is so much uncertainty about small business ownership and where the economy is going. And you know, we talked about in the beginning the stimulus checks and Covid and not having that now. And I think if somebody has a valid business that they are starting to see some movement on, you're right, like jumping into it and really getting started. So with that, where can people go to connect with you? Find out more about how to jump into being an Etsy seller or if they are already an Etsy seller and they're looking for support, where. Where can they go to connect with you?
- [24:46]
B
Yeah, definitely. Check out our YouTube channel. We have hundreds of free videos for you and resources, a lot of guidance. We have people who make a ton of money just from watching our videos, actually. So check those out on YouTube. Dylan Jarus is the key. If you, even if you type in Etsy SEO, all of our videos should pop up first so you can find us there. Or on Instagram. If you want to chat in the DMs, we can do that too.
- [25:11]
A
Yeah, I can vouch for that. I visited your YouTube channel. It is very vast and so filled with knowledge. And so I love that you said that people have made lots of money, even just from watching your YouTube videos. That's a great resource. So thanks, Dylan, so much for joining me today. And I hope anybody thinking about starting an Etsy shop will hop over and start to follow along and start that shop before it's too late.
- [25:34]
B
Yes. Thank you, Kate. This is so.