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- [00:01]
Simple Pin Host
Hey there, and welcome back to another episode of the Simplepen podcast. Every once in a while, somebody comes along who tells you part of their story, and it gives you freedom to try something new, to experiment, and kind of go against the grain. And I feel like that is today's podcast that I want to share with you from Dana White. This is part of our Summer Story series. I wanted to interview her because I have met her ages ago, which you'll hear about in the episode. But I've watched her business grow over the years, and frankly, before I recorded this episode, I really didn't know a whole lot about how that story had unfolded. And it surprised me and it encouraged me, and it helped me to see things in a different way. So if you are burned out, if you are overwhelmed, if you have been on the content hamster wheel for years, or you're even wondering what's next for you, this is a podcast that I hope will just sit right with your soul. It will just encourage you, it will inspire you, and it will give you some aha moments where you go, maybe I need to be doing that, or maybe I don't need to be doing that. So with that, here is my episode with Dana White. Dana, welcome to the Simple Pin podcast.
- [01:27]
Dana White
Thanks for having me on. I'm excited about this conversation. I know.
- [01:30]
Simple Pin Host
Me too. I was just watching one of your videos, and it was about decluttering, and I loved what you said because you were like, I. You were pulling out things of a drawer, right? And it was a liner that went in a drawer. But what I love. There's two things I loved about it. One, the authenticity that you just comes across in your videos. But two, you said there's trash in here. And I know everybody doesn't think they have trash, but everybody's got trash, right? So I want to actually jump off on that point. Like, do people really push back that they don't have trash? Like, they try to resist it?
- [02:09]
Dana White
Yes, they do have. Here. Here's the thing. I have been doing this for a long time. We actually met years and years and years ago when. At the beginning of. When I was doing this. So I've been doing this for, like, 16 years. I have quite literally heard all the excuses, right? Like, I've heard, and. And I say that as someone who had the same excuses. So I'm not saying this like, oh, my word, what's wrong with you? You don't think you have trash? I'm saying it as the person who also did not think that I had trash. Because I had all this stuff in my house that I had brought in because it was good stuff, because it was interesting stuff, because it was useful, and yet I brought so much in that my house was so out of control that I was too overwhelmed to even get started. And the longer I was overwhelmed and didn't get started, things clutter, just grows. Like, it multiplies, and little things get added. And so there's always trash to start with. And I always tell people, too, even if you don't have trash, which you do, you always do. But even if you're convinced you're the one then who doesn't have trash, still look for trash. Because there's purpose in that part of the step, too. Which, I know we're not talking about my decluttering steps, but. But, like, that's where I come from is like, I know the resistance to getting started. I know how hard it is to get started. Like, resisting is not. I'm not starting because I don't want to start. It's. I'm not starting because I'm so, so completely overwhelmed and bewildered, and that's where I was, and that's what I had to work through. And so when people, you know, push back on these things, I'm like, I get it. Like, I know why you're saying this, but I also know I. I've literally heard from thousands and thousands of people, and. And I hear both the excuses, but more than that, I hear the people who tell me, I didn't believe you then. I tried it, and you were right. And I'm like, yes.
- [04:09]
Simple Pin Host
Right, right. And you're like, you wouldn't have listened to me in the beginning because you wouldn't have thought that I was right. But I actually think to your point about the beginning of starting something, you started writing anonymously on your blog, like, you didn't even use your real name. Was that tied into the overwhelming thought of, like, so starting this. This new thing? And, like, if nobody knows, I can't be held accountable?
- [04:33]
Dana White
Yeah, no, that. That's exactly what it was. So my story is I wanted to be a writer. Blogs were a new thing. And I was like, that's it. I've got to have one. And I didn't start my blog for a year and a half after I had this realization that that's what I've got to do because my house was a disaster. Did not ever occur to me until it did occur to me. But, you know, like, had. Would never have occurred to me that my house would be the thing I would write about, I started writing as a practice blog, right? Like, it was just meant to be a temporary thing. I was going to write about it for a couple of months as a way to get focused on my house, which had been my lifelong debilitating struggle, right? My house was a total disaster, and I had tried and tried and tried and could never figure it out. So I was like, I'll focus on my house, and this will keep me focused. I can learn about blogging the thing that I want to do. So when I started anonymously, the intention was not to turn this into a blog. It was that this was going to be a temporary thing. No one was ever going to know it was me writing this. I was going to learn some things, I'd get my house under control, and then I'd start writing about other stuff that I actually felt qualified and wanted to write about. Well, it's 16 years later and I'm still writing about the same thing because, well, for so many reasons, right? But mostly because what I realized through doing that was. That was actually what was missing for me is somebody was the same thing that people were getting from reading my writing, which was most people who write about organizing write about because they write about it because they love it, right? Like, it's something that's fun to them. They enjoy it. And that makes total sense that that's who would write about this. But because it is not natural to me, and I was writing about it, one of the things I realized through people reading and saying, oh, my goodness, my brain works like yours does, was that my brain works very differently from the brain of a naturally organized person. And that is the reason why. Why often organizing advice written by naturally organized people was like a foreign language to me that I couldn't learn. I couldn't understand what they were talking about. I couldn't. And I would try to do the things that they said to do, and it was like, didn't work, you know? So as I was figuring it out, other people were gaining understanding from that. And in the beginning, I wasn't teaching anything. Like, I was just saying. And people would say, like, teach us what you're doing. And I would. I probably could go back and find the emails because I never delete emails, right? Of me going, no, like, why would you learn from me? This makes no sense. No, no, no, you don't want to learn from me because I, I, you know, I'm not perfect and I never will be. But it was several years in that I realized, oh, actually that's the need, right? Like, there are lots of people who will tell you how to have a beautifully organized home. And I'm never going to tell you how to do that, but I can tell you how to go from completely bewildered and overwhelmed and having tried, thought you tried everything out there to, oh, I can do this, I can declutter, I can get my house under control.
- [07:53]
Simple Pin Host
Yes. And I so agree with you on this topic of the experts who teach it are already experts at managing it themselves. It's something that comes natural to them. So they really don't understand this hurdle to get from point A to point B where they are are paralyzed. Back at point A, they will often look at you and just say, well, just do it, like get to point B. And the person doesn't need to hear that. They need to be with somebody who goes, I understand, and here is my story. And I think that's why stories are so impactful, because people hear themselves in it. They take away little pieces that create light bulb moments and they go, oh, I can do it. So I have two questions that spin off of that one. When did you reveal your identity as Dana?
- [08:41]
Dana White
I. So it was about two and a half years in. I wrote my first ebook and it was a, it was a, it's called 28 Days to Hope for your home. It's actually now included as the appendix of my first traditionally published book because it was kind of really good, you know, so. But it was the 28 day guide to going from completely bewildered to, oh, okay, now I know what it takes to get my house under control. When I wrote that book because my desire had been to be a writer. And here I was writing an ebook and I was like, I want to put my name on it. You know, like, I didn't, this was my dream. I was living my dream at this time. And so I, I, I'd made the decision to put, to say, my real name, which several people, lots of people were like, I wondered if Noni was a real name or not. You know, I never said, but I called myself Noni, short for Anonymous, back when I, you know, thought it was temporary.
- [09:41]
Simple Pin Host
But yeah, okay, so in that overwhelm, I'm going to transition a little bit to business because you're kind of accidentally growing this business. And entrepreneurship can be so overwhelming. And you have the same thing happen in entrepreneurial spaces, right? You have people who teach scale to five figures, six figures, seven figures, like the same nonsense we hear all the time. And it has oftentimes been really easy for those people to do that, it just kind of comes naturally. So how are you navigating both this newfound medium of expressing your overwhelmness about decluttering, but at the same time managing a growing business that, as we all know as entrepreneurs, is really overwhelming at times because there's so many pieces and parts. I mean, I shut down when somebody's like, you gotta fix this code on your site. I'm like, I'm out. Like, I can't even think about it. So how were you navigating both at the same time?
- [10:41]
Dana White
So when I had the idea to start a blog, I started doing all the research, right? And that was in 2008. So it's been a long time ago. It's hard, as, you know, when people say, well, how do I get started? I'm like, well, I started so long ago that things are completely different now, right? But at the time, I was looking at what were the best platforms, what were the best practices, all these things to be ready for the one day when I was going to start my blog? Well, when I had this moment of realizing, oh, I need to do a practice blog about this thing that nobody's ever going to find out about, right? And so it had so much less pressure. I went with the lowest point of entry, right? So I. I started a blog spot blog that you could literally start in less than five minutes. Because I had this mindset of. The purpose of this thing that I'm doing is to learn for someday when I do the real thing.
- [11:41]
Co-Host
Right.
- [11:43]
Dana White
I am so thankful for that now because it was so low pressure and it gave me so much freedom to experiment. So, I mean, I put ads on my site, which I know at the time was a little bit controversial, you know, when people.
- [11:57]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah, I remember that.
- [11:58]
Dana White
Writing for all the right reasons, right? And other. But I was like. I had it in my mindset that I was like, I am doing this because I want to be a writer. And I would say that on my blog, I was like, I want to be a writer. And what I mean by that is, I want writing to be my job. If writing's gonna be my job, I have to get paid to write. This is how I. You know, So I put ads on my site. I went to a blogging conference. I think that's where we met. I don't know if it was the first one or the second one, but I went to that with this mindset. I thought I was learning things for the future, but I would go ahead and experiment and practice, and I Tried some sponsored posts. I learned over time that I hate sponsored posts with every fiber of my being.
- [12:39]
Co-Host
Right?
- [12:40]
Simple Pin Host
Yes, totally.
- [12:41]
Dana White
At the time, it was like, oh, my goodness, I can't believe somebody's paying hundred dollars to do this, you know, thing, so.
- [12:47]
Simple Pin Host
Or sending me a waffle maker.
- [12:49]
Co-Host
Right.
- [12:49]
Dana White
Like, it was really excited. But I learned through doing that. I learned what worked, I learned what people responded to. I learned all of that. And so what was the question?
- [13:00]
Simple Pin Host
Well, actually, no, you answered it for sure. Of, like, these overwhelming pieces. And I think actually you ending that way makes sense because there are so many different things. And to your point of. When we got started in 2008 and 2009, I mean, I remember the blog spot. I remember the debate over ads. It was just when SEO was coming on the scene. And for. From my perspective, and I would wonder about yours too, it felt easier because it was a lot of this bumping along. And you had Facebook.
- [13:29]
Co-Host
Right.
- [13:30]
Simple Pin Host
And then Pinterest came along, and then you kind of had Instagram. You didn't have seven different platforms to try to be all the places and.
- [13:37]
Dana White
Do all the things.
- [13:39]
Simple Pin Host
You could just choose one and kind of bump along and figure it out. There was an extra layer of grace for figuring it out. And that was a longer lead time as opposed to, well, when you start it, you got to make sure everything's. All your ducks are in a row. It's like, don't start it until you're ready. But we kind of had that luxury of.
- [14:02]
Dana White
We did. And I still think it's impossible.
- [14:04]
Co-Host
Right.
- [14:05]
Dana White
Like, I. I'm not. I don't want to speak as. Because I don't. It is not my business model to teach people how to start an entrepreneurial journey. Like, that is not my business model.
- [14:16]
Co-Host
Right.
- [14:17]
Dana White
But I do have these conversations with people a lot. And I do think that that experimentation mindset is incredibly powerful because it allows you. I always call it non committal experimentation.
- [14:30]
Co-Host
Right.
- [14:30]
Dana White
Like, and I teach this in decluttering as well.
- [14:32]
Co-Host
Right.
- [14:32]
Dana White
But it's this. I'm gonna try this. You know, I'm convinced of one thing, but I'm gonna try this thing, even if it's just to see if it works or not to see if it's gonna be a failure. And then it's like, okay, well, if I fail, then that's not a bad thing. It's just something I can check off my list as. Okay, then that's not something I need to worry about. So I do think it lent itself really well to that. But even that Mindset for me was really, really powerful that this was not. This was just a learning environment for me.
- [15:04]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah, you were identifying as a writer.
- [15:07]
Co-Host
Right.
- [15:08]
Simple Pin Host
So a lot of people will say entrepreneur, business owner, blogger, content creator, whatever it is. Did you think about your identity being any of those other things or is it always just, I'm going towards being a writer, like, and that is my goal.
- [15:24]
Dana White
I am all of those things.
- [15:26]
Co-Host
Right.
- [15:26]
Dana White
And so the. The writer, which. Now I say author.
- [15:31]
Co-Host
Right.
- [15:31]
Dana White
You know, because I published books, so the writer is the driving force.
- [15:37]
Co-Host
Right.
- [15:38]
Dana White
Like, that is my thing. If everything else falls away, I'm going to continue to be a writer. But the other reality is that successful writers need to be entrepreneurs.
- [15:50]
Co-Host
Yeah, right.
- [15:51]
Dana White
Like, it's just, even. Even those who don't also have a podcast and also have YouTube and also have a blog and all that, it's a part of it now. I mean, there. It's very rare for someone to have the kind of writing career that we read about in books from, you know, you know, where you sat in a room and you sent it off and somebody else did all the work and the checks started coming in or whatever. It. It's just part of it. And I have learned through doing that I do very much enjoy the entrepreneurial side of things. Like, I enjoy the experimentation, I enjoy the creativity, I enjoy trying things. You know, I. My publisher, I don't know how many years ago, several years ago, asked me to do these audio products, right. Because my audiobooks do really well. And so they were like, hey, we're trying to extend. Experiment on something of doing these like, one hour audio products, basically that. That are on audio book platforms as opposed to podcast platforms. And I was like, you had me at experimentation. Like, I'm like, when you tell me you want to use me to experiment, I'm like, that's my favorite thing to do is like, let's just. Let's just play with this thing and figure out and see if it, you know, what does it hurt? Because you just literally never know what is gonna stick and what's gonna connect with your audience and connect you with the right people.
- [17:18]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah, it's very true. So then when did your first traditionally published book. I. I don't even want to say when it launched, but when that opportunity came knocking at your doorstep and was it like, oh, like the angels are singing, I get to finally be a writer? Like, tell me a little bit about that.
- [17:36]
Dana White
Yeah, so it was. It would have been 2015, I think so about six years in. I. It's Funny, because I, you know, was talking, would have a few people that I would talk to about entrepreneurship, right. And as you know, you. There are a lot of people who want to talk about it, and then there is a much smaller group of people who, like, act upon it. Do you know what I mean? And so you, you know, people, like, want to pick your brain on things, and that's great. Like, I love talking about this stuff, but then I really get. Get excited with the friends who are like, hey, I've started this thing. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, have you thought about this? And then they like, come back the next week and they say, okay, I did that thing and here was the result. And I'm like, okay, we are on the same wavelength. Like, so I had a friend who had started. Started writing Christian romance novels, okay. Which is not my thing.
- [18:33]
Co-Host
Right.
- [18:34]
Dana White
But she had a very entrepreneurial mindset about it. And so we would have these great conversations and. And we were talking one time and I was like, you know, hey, you can't write all the Christian romance that your reader wants to read.
- [18:47]
Co-Host
Right?
- [18:48]
Dana White
Like, if it takes you, let's say at the least six months to get a book, you know, that you self publish out there, they're going to read more than one novel in a month. So you need to connect with other people who are doing the same thing as you so that you can then recommend to each other. And that's good. Anyway, so she did that. She got out there, she found her a group of people who wrote things similar to hers. And through that, she found an agent. And then her agent happened to mention to her that she was wanting to get into nonfiction. And she said, oh, my friend Dana, you know, so it's so funny because it's like, at the time that we had that conversation, did I ever in a million years think that she would be my path to traditional publishing? We were just having a conversation like, you don't know where any of that stuff is going to go. And so I talked with her agent and her. Her agent was. She's not my agent anymore, but she was very, you know, great at, like, you know, getting in there and getting things done. And so, I mean, I wrote a short proposal. Like, I didn't write a full proposal. Just kind of like, hey, let's get this done, because I have meetings with so and so. And that was in April and in June, I signed a contract. I had a couple different offer. Yeah. Offers from different publishing houses. And then that book came out in November of the following year of 16. So yeah, it was. I remember having the conversation with my husband because I, you know, 28 days to hope for your home was self published and it was earning on Amazon. And I was like, I can't write a how to book and not include that 28 day guide in it because it is the step by step. I'm not good. I'm. I'm really big on not making things up, like not reinventing the wheel for the sake of, you know, new content. And so I said I've got to include that in it, which means I have to take it off of Amazon. And I was like, I think what if, you know, I mean that thing is earning me money and what if I take it off? And we just looked at each other and we were like, this was the goal, right? Like this was the goal was to be a writer and to have a traditionally published book is a huge step in that being my identity.
- [21:04]
Co-Host
Right.
- [21:04]
Dana White
Is being a writer. So were just like, let's just do it. And I'm so incredibly thankful that I. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. Because those have done really well.
- [21:15]
Simple Pin Host
That's what I was going to ask. So how well has that book done?
- [21:18]
Dana White
So that book has done very well. What's funny? Funny Haha. I don't know if it's funny haha. But the second book. So when I got that book contract I pitched one book and they came back with a two book offer. I know people have lots of different feelings about two book offers, right. So I don't recommend it and yet I did it again. Like my last contract I did was. Is a four book contract but.
- [21:44]
Simple Pin Host
Oh wow. Okay.
- [21:46]
Dana White
Yeah, that I don't anyway but it actually was so the first book, let's just be honest. Thank you. Marie Kondo. But because of her and how well her book had done, every publisher wanted a decluttering book, wanted a know cleaning and organizing book, right. And so I was my publisher's cleaning and organizing book. So that one came out but it didn't do as well as Marie Kondo's book, you know. And so it did fine, but it didn't do fantastic. Well then the other reality of publishing is that you've got people in and out all the time, Right. Is my mic working okay?
- [22:24]
Simple Pin Host
Yep, it's doing great.
- [22:25]
Dana White
Okay. So you've got people in and out all the time. So the people who had brought me on, which that means they are the ones with skin in the game for my stuff, half of them had left. Okay. And so when that's so for my second book, there were new marketing people. Well, they had no actual skin in the game. And so my second book, it's kind of a long story and how much you want to hear, but I basically had nine weeks to write my second book. Because it was horrible. Yes, Terrible. Almost killed me. No, because what happened was the marketing. Like, they did three phases of marketing for my first book that came out in November. It's called how to manage your home without losing your mind. So they're like, let's do a get ready for the holidays marketing campaign, and then let's do a new year new you campaign, and then we'll do a spring cleaning campaign. Well, once the new year new you campaign came along, I was like, okay, well, I have to work on this second book now. Like, it's. According to my contract, it is due, I think it was June 2nd of 2017. I'm like, I have to get this done. And they started sending me all these, like, write an article for this place and this place and this place, which. Oh, wow. Some of those do. Well, I, I, I'm now at a point where I can say, no, I don't want to do that. Like, if you guarantee me it's one that's going to move books, I'll do it. But at the time I was like. And I, and I said, I shouldn't have said this, but I said to the marketing people, I don't have time to do these articles because I've got to write the second book. Well, the next thing I knew, I got a message from somebody saying, oh, we're not sure that that's the subject we want for the second book or not, so we'll put that off. And I was like, anyway. Well, then as soon as all that was over, they're like, yeah, we do want that. And now it really, really is due on June 2nd.
- [24:16]
Simple Pin Host
So of course.
- [24:17]
Dana White
Yeah, of course. So it was. So I wrote it in nine weeks. But that book, decluttering at the speed of life, that they. Who all is going to hear this? Let's just say that it was not one that the publisher put a lot of marketing effort into.
- [24:35]
Simple Pin Host
Okay.
- [24:36]
Dana White
So it was basically, I marketed it myself. But it is the core. Like, it is a decluttering process is unique. It's different from any other decluttering process. It works really well. And so I pushed it myself really hard. And that was the one that took on a life of its own. So that the other one has done well, Like, I mean, comparatively to most books, it has done well. Decluttering the Speed of Life has done really well.
- [25:06]
Co-Host
Right.
- [25:06]
Dana White
Like, so that's the one thing for my kids. College, basically.
- [25:09]
Simple Pin Host
So very cool.
- [25:10]
Dana White
Yeah. So it is. And it keeps on doing well.
- [25:15]
Co-Host
Right.
- [25:16]
Dana White
Like, it keeps on selling. So it wasn't until I think it sold declarative. The Speed of Life sold a hundred thousand copies in less than, I think about nine months or so. Wow. So that was a big moment.
- [25:31]
Co-Host
Right?
- [25:31]
Dana White
Like a big. Oh, okay. And when it sold a hundred thousand copies, suddenly I started hearing from my publisher again and they started doing promotions. And they started. Because I. I don't think anybody was paying attention. Like nobody had noticed that it was doing well until it hit this milestone. And then they went, oh, wait, what? This book is doing so well. So at that point, then my publisher started doing a lot of promotions with Amazon promotions on Audible. I had an Audible thing. Let's see. It was the day that. Trying to think. It would have been in 20. 20. 19. No, 20 20. Oh, no, no, 20. 21. It would have been in 20. Because I remember it was Inauguration day.
- [26:13]
Co-Host
Right.
- [26:13]
Dana White
So this last inauguration.
- [26:15]
Simple Pin Host
Yes, but the one before.
- [26:17]
Dana White
So I was. They did a like 3.99 or something on Audible and it got to the number one spot in Audible for like two, three days. I mean, that's like a huge, big deal, you know, so it just, it built on itself. And that's the. That's the one. That's my bread and butter. That then also has allowed me to do other books. And then they asked me to do a gift book, which. Do you know what that is?
- [26:44]
Simple Pin Host
I don't.
- [26:46]
Dana White
A gift book is. Has like pictures and it's more, you know, like tip format kind of a thing.
- [26:54]
Simple Pin Host
Oh, yes.
- [26:55]
Co-Host
Okay.
- [26:56]
Dana White
Thousand words. It's more like, you know.
- [26:58]
Simple Pin Host
Yes.
- [26:58]
Dana White
Version of things. So they asked me to do that. A version of the other one. So at that point, that's when I kind of worked with my publisher again and went, oh, this is like a whole different group of people. And I really enjoyed, you know, the, the experience working with them. So then my following books that I've had come out. I've stayed with that same publisher.
- [27:14]
Simple Pin Host
That is very cool to have that.
- [27:17]
Dana White
Well, and while that's happening.
- [27:18]
Co-Host
Right.
- [27:19]
Simple Pin Host
And there's this, you know, I would imagine, like the tension between working on the book and then the pressure of the book and then also your business. What was kind of happening at the same time? Because when I talked to a lot of business owners and I've even experienced it myself, it felt Like a lot of businesses grew rapidly between 2015 and even 2020, like that five year span. There's things you can look back on where Google was going crazy, Facebook ads were like printing money or people had figured out webinar formulas, all of these. And we commonly hear about that being like this golden era. Was this happening for you too on the business side?
- [28:00]
Dana White
There was definitely good traffic right to my blog. But I wish I could remember what year it was that I finally went, you know what, I'm doing other things. I am not going to write blog posts anymore, so I don't write them anymore. I will publish reader stories that they send to me. But because my, my, my blog was a, you know, transformational diary basically of like me talking about what I was doing from beginning to end. It still gets a lot of views. You know, a lot of people read from the beginning to the end. But I will say that I did start my podcast, I think in 2013 or 2014 and probably 2013. And I didn't know it at the time, but that was a great time to start podcasting.
- [28:51]
Simple Pin Host
That really was, that was like that.
- [28:53]
Dana White
To me is the thing that took off that I had no idea how much that would transform my business, you know, because I feel like that's where I got just really dialed in, super fans was from the podcast itself. And so that's been going for what, almost 12 years now.
- [29:13]
Simple Pin Host
And well, that connects the dots too between like the audiobook piece and your podcast. Because you're right. When people. I have people that do the same thing where they listen to my podcast and they feel so connected. And I think it's because as we are podcast. I don't know if you listen to podcasts, but I do. I'm listening to them when I'm getting ready, when I'm taking a shower, when I'm like driving my kids, there's these things where they do feel like I'm connected with them. Like they are a close, intimate part of me that I think video doesn't. In the same way, I think it kind of is trending towards that, especially as we see podcasts more on YouTube and things like that. But I think there's something about that audio connection. So it makes sense to me why you would be asked to do that audio book part like portion.
- [29:57]
Co-Host
Right.
- [29:57]
Dana White
And it pairs so well with what I'm talking about.
- [30:00]
Co-Host
Right?
- [30:01]
Dana White
Because people are decluttering while they're listening, they're cleaning listening. And so it's, it just worked, you know, and in a way Where? I didn't have any idea. I just thought it sounded fun to have a podcast, right? Like, I. I don't know. Were you at the one. At the. When we met at the Savvy Blogging Summit, were you at the one in Colorado Springs?
- [30:22]
Simple Pin Host
No, just at the one in Atlanta.
- [30:26]
Dana White
Cincinnati. Cincinnati. Okay. Well, I. So I remember it going to a session, and the lady who was speaking, I think it was Maria Bailey maybe was her name, but it was supposed to be a session about YouTube and podcasts, right? And so I went, because I was like, well, those things sound fun to me. And this was at the time where we, like, blog was the thing that we had our business, everybody there. That was what we did. We had a blog. And I was like, well, that sounds like something I might be interested in. So I went. And she said the words, you don't have a blog, you have a message. And I was like, what? And it made me go, what is my message?
- [31:07]
Co-Host
Right, like, what.
- [31:08]
Dana White
What is my message? I'm just thinking of myself as writing about what I'm doing in my house and getting it under control and all that kind of stuff. And then I went, oh, my message is, there's hope for your home no matter how hopeless you are.
- [31:21]
Co-Host
Right.
- [31:21]
Dana White
And so I transferred into thinking of it as a message. And her point was, take that message and put it into different formats.
- [31:32]
Co-Host
Right?
- [31:32]
Dana White
Because like you were saying, like, I listened to podcasts. I get it. I had never listened to a podcast before I started my podcast. That is not recommended.
- [31:41]
Co-Host
Right?
- [31:43]
Simple Pin Host
No, don't do that. Listen to a few first.
- [31:45]
Dana White
At the same time, it was this. It was this realization that, okay, the same thing that I'm writing on the blog, I can be sharing on the podcast. Because I had thought if I was going to start a podcast, it had to be about something else that was interesting enough to make blog readers listen. And her point was? No, there's just different kinds of people. There's people who read blogs, there's people who listen to podcasts. Sometimes they overlap, but for the most part, they don't overlap. And so you take your same message, which now is the same thing I do with YouTube. I am not coming up with all this new stuff to put on YouTube. I'm just taking the stuff that I've already been teaching it and now teaching it on YouTube as well. So. So it's. That's the way it's rounded everything out, which then gave me the freedom to say, you know what? I'm writing books and I'm putting out podcasts. And I don't think that the, that new blog posts are the thing that's moving my business forward. So I can let that go because I've got all these other areas that are doing, you know, bringing me more. The blog still has value for me, but it's not my focus anymore. Because, you know, as you were saying, as you're growing and all that, like, I, I, I can't just add a whole new content stream to my day, you know, like, I can't. That's like a whole job to add on, doing this and this. Like, when I started my podcast, I said, okay, I can do this, but I can only do it if I don't edit. So in the beginning, I didn't edit. It was, it was years before I actually hired an editor and had them, you know, edit it for me because I was like, that's what I'm able to do. Yes, that's the time that I had. And because I had that attitude, I started in 2013. And starting in 2013 was a huge advantage over having waited until I could really do it. Well, I might not have done it until 2020. Well, that's when a lot of people started their podcast, and it just was harder to get noticed or have people pay attention.
- [33:53]
Simple Pin Host
Well, and your podcast, because it had been started so long before, also came before the Marie Kondo, before all these other things, so that it was already there when people searched, and it had gained some kind of credibility there to where it could come alongside. And I think that's the thing that goes back to your experimentation, is you never know when you start an experiment how that will affect you in the future. And looking at 2009 to 2025, I mean, your business has endured lots of ups and downs, I'm sure, lots of different elements coming into it between the blog and the podcast and video and books. A pandemic, you know, a recession kind of recession, however people talk about it. But I guess how have you navig those ups and downs? Not just the pressures of what's expected of you, but I guess maybe even more vulnerable question would be, have you had a point where you thought, I think I'm done. Like, I think I can no longer do it anymore? Have you had that point? And if you haven't, what do you think has prevented you from hitting that?
- [35:03]
Dana White
Well, I mean, like I said, I did come to a point where I said, I think I'm done with the writing on the block.
- [35:08]
Simple Pin Host
Okay.
- [35:09]
Dana White
And so it's the letting go. I Have hired people along the way as contractors. I just still don't have anybody who works full time for me, but I have one who's close to full time. And basically, anytime I take something new on or something comes up that just is like, well, this is an added huge task, you know, that you weren't expecting to have come into your life. I say, okay, either I give something up or I hire somebody to do this for me.
- [35:39]
Co-Host
Right?
- [35:40]
Dana White
And that has been the thing that has allowed me to keep going, right? So in the times where I write my books, I basically. Everything else goes fairly on hold. The podcast has to keep going, right? The YouTube keeps going, because I put those out every week, except in the summers. But. And that's another thing, too. I mean, like, how have I survived? I've taken summers off like that. And. And I can't tell you how many people just look who are in this business just look at me and go, what?
- [36:18]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah, it's a foreign concept. It's almost like this tightly held. I'll never take summers off.
- [36:24]
Dana White
Well, or anytime. Like, people just think. Don't think they can take any time off, and they're like, oh, well, how have you done that without it hurting your business? And I'm like, well, I'm sure it has hurt my business. Like, I'm sure that I could be in a different place if I had not taken summers off. But it was worth it to me, right? Because I think because I take summers off, that's the reason I'm able to keep going. Like, by the time I get to the end of May and we're recording in June, right? Like, it's a little different now. My kids are in college. You know, they were little when I started this, but I am able to do this because I'm like, for. For June and July, I am not going to worry about it now. There's more things. You know, there's just things that go on and contracts and things like that and books and all that. But for the most part, I just give myself permission to say, I'm not doing anything.
- [37:20]
Simple Pin Host
I'm not.
- [37:20]
Dana White
I'm not on the grind for those two months. And then usually by August, I'm excited about getting going again.
- [37:27]
Co-Host
Right.
- [37:27]
Dana White
And so does it hurt?
- [37:29]
Co-Host
It.
- [37:29]
Dana White
It used to. It used to take me until probably October to kind of gain my traffic and numbers on my podcast and all that back after. I came back after summer, but now it basically comes immediately back. And I have had so many people tell me, people who aren't entrepreneurs just say, thank you for modeling that. Like, like, I, you know, they say I don't like it. I don't like that your podcast stops in the summer. But it makes me stop and think and realize, oh, there has to be boundaries upon this. Because I'm like, it comes down to, is it my kids or is it my business? Because that's what it was. I was trying to keep on vlogging and my kids were home and I was like, I'm sucking at everything. Like, I am cranky all the time. I can't do any of it. And so I just found what. I'm just going to let that go because, you know, family, that's my number one thing and that determines all of my decision making is, you know, how's that going to affect them. And I can remember when my kids were in high school, my son, who is my least sentimental of all of them, he was like, you're gonna still gonna take summers off, right? And I was like, yeah, I am. And he was, okay, good. You know, because he could just tell the huge difference. When I did that, did that answer the question at all?
- [38:57]
Simple Pin Host
No, it did. It was great. I think it. I think one of the things that has been so helpful for me as of late, and you have a business to consumer business and I have a business to business business. So I mean, the two are impacted at different times, especially when we have like large scale world events or even when we have kind of personal events. So I think one of the things I like to ask people is how they have wrestled with the entrepreneurial journey and found balance. And I think you answered it in that sense of creating boundaries around, I have this bandwidth and it's only as big as this. And if I go past it, it's like a balloon, it's going to burst and there's going to be lots of things that are damaged in that wa. So if I keep this kind of at the boundary at which it can hold enough air, then I can keep going. And I think that's the biggest reason that people either burn out or they get so overwhelmed or they come up to that question of, is this still for me? And I've had more conversations with people lately who have been saying, I don't know if I can stay in business much longer. It feels like buying is different. It feels like, you know, my customer is different. And a lot of that depends on niche. But a lot of that too depends on the foundation you've set set up all along the way. Like, have you been white knuckling it. This whole time, have you been doing everything like Instagram, TikTok blog, podcast, and you were just spread so thin? And I think your story is such a great example of saying, I'm gonna do these things, and when I add in something into the mix, something else has to go out. Like, there. It's kind of. This is not how you said it, but it's like, there's only room for three.
- [40:40]
Dana White
And if this is my container concept, like, this is one of the main things I teach is, like, space is finite, and if you try to keep more stuff in your space than will fit, there is no hope of it ever being under control. That is the same thing, right? Like, it's not possible. The other thing I was gonna say is that. And this is something that I fully, completely understand and validate, that there are a lot of people potentially listening who are like, oh, I could never do that.
- [41:07]
Co-Host
Right?
- [41:07]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah.
- [41:08]
Dana White
Here's what I want to say. I don't worry about snazziness, if that makes sense.
- [41:19]
Co-Host
Yeah, right.
- [41:20]
Dana White
Like, I get it. It looks like the way to succeed, and it is the way to succeed in many ways, right? Is to have the flashy, amazing videos, right? The amazing, beautiful podcast with, like, everything perfect and all this. And the reality is that I made the choice back when I decided to start my podcast and said, I either don't do a podcast or I do it without editing. And so I did it without editing. And I was very open and honest and said, I'm not editing. And here's the reason. Because it's either don't edit or don't do it. And people said, please keep doing it. And so I just worried about actually providing real value as opposed to all the bells and whistles, right? And, like, with my YouTube channel, like, I. I did YouTube years and years ago, and the reason I stopped was because it was taking focus away from my home. Like, I didn't want to declutter because I didn't want to put a bra on, you know? And so I was like. I was like, wait, this is backfiring. It's keeping me from working on my home. It's making me put it off. So I couldn't do that anymore. And that's why I decided not to edit with my podcast. But then when I started YouTube again in, like, 2021, I was. I said, okay, because my YouTube channel just started blowing up because I was doing a course with some YouTubers, and. And I was like, okay, I need to have YouTube content out there because it's 10 years old, and I've developed all my content, you know, all my concepts since then. But I just said, okay, I'm gonna do it. But I'm not. I don't watch other YouTube videos, right. Because they're so much snazzier, they're so much prettier and more professional looking. And I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna do what I can do and what actually works within my, you know, my. My abilities and my level of ability. Time that I have to get to it. And it's been successful, right, because it's.
- [43:27]
Simple Pin Host
Relatable, like, because that you're, you know, even the one that I watched. It's like, you're in your home, you're on the counter midway, your dogs bark, and it was hilarious because you do that, like, jump scare warning coming. But you're actually doing what I would do if I was.
- [43:43]
Dana White
Yeah.
- [43:43]
Simple Pin Host
I think you had just remodeled your bathroom, and it had 50,000 views. And it was this. You had a camera from the top down to. You're like, okay, I'm gonna try this. Like, let's see if this works.
- [43:54]
Dana White
Can I tell you a secret?
- [43:55]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah, please do.
- [43:57]
Dana White
So my son is my editor, and I was like, honey, I had to. I was like, you have to crop this because I'm not wearing any pants in the video. We're in this one Here. You can. Oh, my gosh, I'm such a dork.
- [44:10]
Simple Pin Host
But I was like, yes. That is so, so great, because you have this, like, really pretty pink top, and it just. You, like, picture these really cute jeans. I mean, that's the best. But that is how you get content done. And I think that's not talked about that anymore. It's like, we do wait for perfection, or we do wait till we have our hair done and our makeup done. All these kinds of things. We forget that that takes this chunk of time before we actually do it, and then we're like, in this mode that's not authentic almost. And I just.
- [44:46]
Dana White
I loved it. And is it helpful? Because.
- [44:49]
Co-Host
Right.
- [44:50]
Dana White
How do I say this? One of the things that I. It is both something that I get as a criticism from people who are like, oh, you need to have whatever. But the people who are truly being helped by me and to desperately need my help are tell me, thank you for this all the time. And that is. I. I resist reinventing the wheel because I think when you're on this content creation business model, it feels like you have to come up with new stuff all the time. Well, My. My target audience is the me of 2008 who was in tears over my home, who was like, I'm an intelligent person. Why does my home make it look like there's something legitimately make me feel like there's something legitimately wrong with me? Like, I didn't get it. And I'm. I did not need snazzy. I needed somebody to get down and dirty and teach me the truth.
- [45:55]
Co-Host
Right?
- [45:56]
Dana White
Like, what does it take to change your home? And so even though, yes, I am. I mean, I have things that I say over and over, I talk about the same thing, and I come at it from all these different angles, millions of different angles, right. On the same subject. And I totally get why the people who don't need that are like, oh, my word, you say the same thing. You know, I'm like, well, there's lots of people saying lots of other things, but that's one of the things that I see. See that both exhausts the creator, but it also takes you into this element of. Of getting away from being helpful when you're trying to make up new ways to do things.
- [46:37]
Co-Host
Right?
- [46:39]
Dana White
And it's. What has been successful for me has been just drilling down and drilling down and saying, you know, what is it that people need? You know, I actually train coaches now. Like, so I saw that.
- [46:50]
Simple Pin Host
Decluttering coaches.
- [46:51]
Co-Host
Right, right.
- [46:53]
Dana White
And that has been. That was the missing piece.
- [46:57]
Co-Host
Right?
- [46:57]
Dana White
Like, that was the thing that I couldn't offer people, because if they want to learn it, there's every kind of content that you possibly consume of me teaching this. And yet some people needed their handheld, and I'm like, okay, well, now I've done that. So that's how I built. My business is going like, what is it that people need? What is missing that, you know, what. What way for them to learn? This is missing, and then just filling that in, and it just makes a very broad base, which I think has helped me weather all those storms. I mean, people right now are. It's really hard.
- [47:29]
Co-Host
Right.
- [47:30]
Dana White
And so if. If my business model was only on website ads, it would be really bad, and I would want to give up.
- [47:37]
Co-Host
Right.
- [47:38]
Dana White
But that's just one piece of it. And so other things are growing while that thing is, you know, stagnating.
- [47:45]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah, that was such a smart move. When did you get the idea for creating coaches?
- [47:51]
Dana White
I had it a long time ago, but it was not in my bandwidth to do that.
- [47:54]
Simple Pin Host
Okay, so when did you implement.
- [47:57]
Dana White
Was in 2022, I think the very end of 2022. Okay. So they have been. Yeah, they've been certified coaches have been actively, you know, out there working with people for getting two and a half years now.
- [48:14]
Simple Pin Host
And the amount of stories you get back now are probably greater than what you were getting by yourself. And sometimes we think of, like, impact, but I think, too, like, oh, I'm gonna say, like, mini Danas are out there, like, meeting with people in their home, and you get to hear back from them, and you're like, oh, I never would have heard that, or I never would have impacted that person had they not had somebody in person doing this with them, because they might have listened to something that you said, and then they just stalled out. But they needed somebody down on their knees in the kitchen cabinet going, let's do this. So great. Okay. I have a couple, last three, kind of a little bit rapid fire for you. Okay. If you had to share or if you had to rant sorry about kind of a false message in your industry that you hope people don't fall for.
- [49:07]
Dana White
What would it be that the first step of decluttering is to pull everything out of the A space.
- [49:16]
Simple Pin Host
Okay.
- [49:16]
Dana White
That is most people's assumption, because that's what most people will teach.
- [49:21]
Simple Pin Host
Yes. Well, there was a TLC show, wasn't there, a long time ago, about decluttering where they, like, took everything out of the house and put it, like, on the lawn. I can't remember what it was called.
- [49:30]
Dana White
I think it was clean. Sweet. Yeah. But even of a. Even of a drawer, like, it. The idea is that you have to pull it all out first. And I'm like, nope. That is the number one thing that I teach against.
- [49:42]
Co-Host
Right.
- [49:42]
Dana White
Like, not that I'm teaching against it. I'm just teaching a better way than domestic.
- [49:46]
Simple Pin Host
Yes. Okay, so what is one thing that you would gush about? You're like, I love this about those who teach decluttering and how to equip people to organize their life.
- [49:59]
Dana White
Yeah. I think that the thing that I've realized because, you know, I've always kind of been with my little blinders on, but over the last four or five years, I've done a lot more collaborating with other people. People. And it's the true passion that people have to help other people because they. They see. Sometimes we can see, even when people can't always see themselves, what it is that's so frustrating about their space. But wanting to give people that freedom, wanting to give people that hope. You know, I have loved getting to work with other people who are passionate about that as well.
- [50:39]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah. Giving them freedom. Okay, here's another one. If you could have dinner with any entrepreneur, author, business owner, who would it be and why?
- [50:51]
Dana White
I will think of something great to say later while you're falling asleep.
- [50:56]
Simple Pin Host
Totally. This one's always on the spot. Or you could say, like, who? I guess what has impacted you as a business owner? If there's like a book or an author or somebody that has helped support you while you grow your business.
- [51:09]
Dana White
Yeah, I mean, I, I don't listen to as many business things as I used to just because I did get so overwhelmed that I had to finally go, I'm just going to kind of keep doing what I'm doing.
- [51:21]
Co-Host
Right.
- [51:21]
Dana White
But then I'll go back every once in a while. And I would say, I got so much from Pat Flynn in the beginning. Like, I, I really, there was so much that he would share that was implementable. You know what I mean? Like, so many things he would share that he would. I don't know if he still does the thing where he answers people's questions, you know, in five minutes or whatever, but he would do the podcast and there would just be such relatable things and would have people come on and share their stories. And that's other people's stories of what they've done and what has worked for them has always been the most, you know, impactful to me.
- [51:58]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah, a hundred percent. Okay, so where do you see a slob comes clean? Dana White in three to five years?
- [52:07]
Dana White
My goal at this point. So I'm in the middle of a four book contract that.
- [52:13]
Simple Pin Host
What book are you on of? Are you bought on book two?
- [52:16]
Dana White
I'm technically on book three. Book two is a children's book and it will come out in, it's done, but it will come out in February or March maybe of next year. And so I'm currently writing my second trade book, which is like, you know, a 60,000 word book that is due mid September. And then I'll have another gift book. And I'm not actually sure what that one's about at this point, but when those books are written, my goal is to move primarily into speaking. So that is my, that is, we are doing a lot of setting up for that being the thing, partly because my kids are out of the house now. And so I just, you know, I, I didn't ever want to speak regularly because.
- [53:06]
Simple Pin Host
Yeah, takes a lot of time.
- [53:08]
Dana White
Yeah. Especially when they're teenagers. There's so many things going on that you don't want to miss. But at this point, that's that's kind of where we're, we're headed. Well, that is where we're headed is speaking being the primary thing. And I always say at the end of writing a book, I'm like, I don't think I have any more books in me. And then I usually do. So we'll see about writing more books.
- [53:29]
Simple Pin Host
I love it.
- [53:29]
Dana White
Cool. Well, Dana, thank you, thank you for.
- [53:32]
Simple Pin Host
Sharing your story here on the Simple Pen podcast. And I hope it sparks some ideas for the people listening, gives them hope wherever they are at and where can they go to connect with you.
- [53:46]
Dana White
If you just Google Dana K. White, you have to put the K in there because Dana White is a man who's bald and owns the Ultimate Fighting Championship. So, okay, you just google Dana White, you'll get him. But if you put Dana K. White, you'll find me. So I'm on YouTube and at a slobcamsclean.com still nobody blog spot anymore, but it's still that same website and or danik white.com either one.
- [54:10]
Simple Pin Host
I love it. Thanks again, Dana. I really appreciate it.
- [54:13]
Dana White
It's.