← Simple Pin Podcast: Simple ways to boost your business using Pinterest
Simple Pin Podcast: Simple ways to boost your business using Pinterest
Thoughts on 2026, AI and Finding Your Voice in Business with Meaghan Williamson
00:55:29
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- [00:00]
A
One of my favorite parts about 2026 and this podcast is that I'm going to be interviewing more people about their experience with Pinterest or Pinterest adjacent type of topics. And one of the interviews I have been most excited to release to you is with my friend Megan Williamson. We are talking today on the Simple Pen podcast all about the future future in 2026, what AI will bring, how you can get curious, and what part of you will rise to the surface when we have all these competing narratives.
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B
About what AI will take over, how.
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A
It'S changed Pinterest and how we can lean into growing our business despite a really tumultuous time. I hope that you take away some really good thoughts and ideas from this interview. It's right around 40ish minutes long, so great for a drive when you're making dinner, when you're going on a walk or working out at the gym. I think what Megan and I have to talk about as it relates to being leaders in this industry, leaders as people who teach Pinterest marketing, is that we want you to embrace not just the platform, but who you are on the platform. So with that, let's dive in to today's episode. Megan Williamson, welcome to the Simplepen podcast.
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B
Thank you, Kate. So excited to talk to me too.
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A
And we already know we can talk for hours and because we have. But I am going to flip my normal script, which is I start with asking like, who are you and what you do do, But I'm going to say, what keeps you still invested in Pinterest marketing? Because you have been in the industry for a long time and why do you keep showing up day after day to talk about Pinterest?
- [01:52]
B
Such a good question. Well, I think over time my answer to that has evolved when I think about why I still do what I do. And of course we're always tempted, right? Like Pinterest is connected to the entire content ecosystem. We could flip or move very smoothly into other domains very easily. But the reality is is that I always come back to Pinterest and I had some deep thoughts about this in the last year because it has always served me personally. So whether you are a caretaker, have chronic conditions or medical conditions, you have children, whether you want to travel half of the year, I've been always one of these people that I'm a fair weather friend when it comes to most marketing channels. And even in my early days as a blogger and content creator, I relied on Pinterest and I really felt firsthand the power of a marketing channel. That could help me grow when I wasn't necessarily actively online. And the interesting part about this, like, part of my story is that in the early days I was like single, carefree, I had a dog, I had my car, I was road tripping, I was blogging. And, and now it's easier for me because like, I'm a business owner, I have small children, I want to be present in my family's lives. So I'm busy now. But even when I wasn't busy, I found that I just couldn't get consistent in how I showed up in other channels. And Pinterest was that platform that always helped me grow. So as we've seen sort of things change and evolve and you know, Pinterest is hot. Pinterest is, you know, some people are a little bit upset with the changes and you and I have observed every time the boat has rocked, I just come back to that thread that we need a form of marketing that supports us when we're not actively on. So it's really easy for me to preach and teach and share the magic of Pinterest because I felt it and I continue to feel the benefits of a platform like Pinterest in my own world.
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A
What do you say to people who come to you and they are tempted by, I guess we'll call them the dopamine hit channels when they, they come to you and they're like, this feels so boring. I feel overwhelmed by it. Or I, I don't know if what I'm doing is actually working. What for you is that thing that you bring to the table that says, here's why you should stay in the game. Yeah.
- [04:27]
B
Do you know, I think as things have evolved and we've seen things come and go and some are, you know, short form, video written, short form written, you know, all, all the different formats and the way has evolved ultimately, at the end of the day, what I really think about when it comes to Pinterest is this idea of a search first platform that has been designed as a search based platform from day one. So we see a lot of platforms, a lot of even AI. We've seen, you know, Instagram and TikTok and all these other platforms. And it's never for me, like, I just want to be clear, like a this versus that. I always see things as complementary, as part of your content ecosystem. But what I've seen for Pinterest and why Pinterest I think has always sort of risen to the occasion, no matter the trend is an idea that you are inserting yourself in the customer journey because of how it's been designed. I have to say, I'm not a natural salesperson. And so for me, a lot of the other platforms feel really disruptive. It feels very like, oh, here's the hook and look at me and ooh, what's your thumbnail? And I'm not dismissing those things. Those things are important, which is know that. But to have a platform in your marketing toolbox that inserts you in a very natural, helpful way to provide a solution to the thing that they're actively searching for, that allows you to really step back from your marketing and really understand your audience at a deeper level. And you and I know this, that your success on Pinterest is rooted in really understanding your audience and understanding the content that meets their needs and their search behavior. And honestly, when business owners tap into that, it's like something shifts. It's this, like sustainability, it's this resiliency. Good content is good content. It doesn't matter if you're taking it to a meta platform, to YouTube, you want to rank better on Google. Your unique story, perspective and value and solutions is going to help somebody. And Pinterest will surface you at the exact right moment of the person who is actively looking for you. And for me, that's the magic special little piece of the puzzle that Pinterest has always offered and continues to offer people.
- [06:49]
A
Well, I think that's a perfect tee up to 20, 26 and things changing. And search is changing. Right. We see search on every platform being fueled by these AI changes, the user habits. I heard recently on a podcast, search went from four words to 23 words. We're now searching in these ways of phrases. And with that, we see every platform, including Pinterest, really trying to navigate the waters of AI.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And what is on their platform. And you and I have talked, you know, together and on our own platforms about the AI slop. So we don't want to address that too much, but we do want to say elephant in the room. We realize it, it's there, right. And it will be everywhere. And we are in this weird inflection point where. Because it is there. I think to your point about human created curated content, that is even more important. So let's start at this point of how, I guess would you instruct people going into these next couple of years to really create content that is distinguishable from AI?
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B
Yeah, that it is.
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A
And I'm going to add another layer to it. So I'm going to pull your little sales string A little bit. How do you sell them into kind of the keep showing up to create it. When you feel these creators kind of feeling a little bit defeated to say, like, oh, I don't know if I can compete with this animal that's out there, I guess let's talk about that a little bit.
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B
So when it comes to content creation, I think what we are seeing is like, like what you're describing in the words in my head was sort of like a heavy energy. Like a lot of people are thinking like, what am I going to do? Do I want to use it? We're having these ethical questions as business owners, as content creators of the role of AI, the pros and the cons. And I think when I personally think about it, I think a lot about sort of human led AI. We are. AI has made its way down to the regular people, right? We're so deep in marketing that like what we hear are silos that we operate in, the gossip we hear or even our perceptions. Like you and I hear a lot of like, oh, I'm so sick of the AI on Pinterest. And even when they brought out like the first platform to really bring out the end user's ability to control how much AI they see and AI, you know, capabilities of sort of filtering your results, people still are, you know, very loud about it. And you and I see that because we're in that echo chamber. But regular people are using AI in interesting ways and I do think we have to evolve with our audiences. And I as a business owner, I had these conversations very early on with those in my trusted circles, from, you know, my father in law who worked for IBM for 40 years, to my husband who's a full stack developer, to my friends who are in marketing. And I knew that I wasn't so sure about how, how it was going to evolve and how quickly it was going to evolve. But I wanted, and I do feel that we need to sort of get out in front. I know that's sort of like a cliche thing to say, but to understand it, because to understand it and you don't have to understand everything you can allow to say, okay, this is a powerful tool, how are we going to use it? There's like many things good and bad, right? And so when I think about content creation, especially business owners and creators who are like feeling kind of down about it, I think that the one thing we have to remember is that regular people are now starting to recognize like the raccoons on the trampoline, that was fake. I I've been like, you know, I don't trust any animal video now.
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A
No, I don't either.
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Even my children, like, they're young and they're like, really? Did that happen? Did that jaguar fight that lion? And I'm like, no, that is not real. So we've are like, we're. Our spidey senses are going off. And I think that during this time, people who are looking to grow on social media, to use Pinterest to market their businesses, this is the time when you need to rise up and be yourself, add that human element. You know, I was just. We were doing a training about video creation, and that UGC video creator and educator was talking about the importance of adding your unique perspective and voice to your marketing. In a time where there's. I heard, I heard someone call it the trust recession, or there's like, we really are like, is this company legit? Is this store real? You know, how many fake stores have we seen that are promoted via meta ads? When we go to a creator account, we're like, you know, if it's like sensationalist videos, you think, wait a sec. And so regular people are experiencing that. So this is like a time that if you are a creator, to really bring your unique, you know, imperfections and let people know. Like, I always think that when somebody finds a typo in any of my copy, which is pretty much every day, you know, I, I have a gift of a lot of ideas, but I'm not a gifted editor. I always say, aren't you happy to know that I'm not. Like, this was written by me. That we really need to see the human side of, of being a business. And that's why founder stories are so big right now. That's why we want to hear. See the imperfections and see who you are and what you. How you uniquely move through world. So as it relates to content creation, I think that, you know, we can't stop what's happening, Kate. Right. That's something that you and I talked about, is that we can't stop what's happening, but we can interpret it through our. I think as leaders in marketing, to use this is a phrase that I thought of that made me feel better. It's sort of like through the expert lens or through the idea that we have the ability to scrutinize good from bad. And I think there are wonderful uses of AI. It has helped people who have accessibility issues, people who require, you know, like, I, when I used to work in school psychology, I was at a hospital and there was a psychologist who was very gifted but awful at writing reports. And he would use voice to text to help dictate reports that were literally incredibly impactful in the lives of the families that he worked with. And that was a form of early AI, right? And I think a lot of people don't realize how much we interact with AI already that in ways that makes the world more accessible or to help find shortcuts. But there is this other side, right? This other side of things that feel very fake. And we, you know, where our trust is being questioned. Is this a real business? Is this a real content creator? Not sure if I'm really answering your question.
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A
No, you did, you did. And I think it, I think where we jump off from there is then human led, trust building content and then matched with the uses of AI. So how can we embrace changes? And I'll share this little story to kind of tee this up where My daughter, who's 18, we were having a conversation. I had just listened to this amazing podcast series, the Last Invention. It's the whole history of AI and to where we are at today. It's excellent and well done. I highly encourage everyone to listen. And they. He gives these three categories at the end. There are the accelerationists, there are the scouts, and there are the doomers. And these are the three people in these categories of AI. The accelerationists, of course, are saying, go at all costs. There will be some cost, but we, we want to get to the end or be the winner as quickly as possible.
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B
Right?
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And then you have the scouts that are going, okay, I can see the good and I can see the bad, but I want us to use caution, right? I want us to actually weigh the benefits with the costs and how will this impact society as a whole? Take the good, leave the bad. And then there's the doomers who say, this is a terrible idea. Never lean into it, it will destroy humanity. It will in fact be the last invention that we do and it will be our biggest mistake. And so don't do it. She was saying, I'm a doomer. I don't, I don't want anything to do. Yeah, I don't, I don't want to use it. I feel like it steals from artists. Very interesting perspective. And my husband and I are more in the scout, you know, like taking good or the bad. So looking at that and helping people as they lean into content creation, as they lean into their marketing in these next couple of years, that I believe will change so, so much. How do we help people See the good uses of AI, I guess the.
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B
Scouts of Pinterest marketing.
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AI, I was going to say, I.
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Think you and I are scouts. It's, it's sort of also this expert led interpretation. So we see how it could be very useful, but we're also aware of some of the neg negative implications. I think with anything that's new it can be really scary and, and you don't know what you don't know. Like I find it's very interesting to me because sometimes when people show me, well, this is what ChatGPT told me and I'm not calling out that particular AI platform, it's just one that I use more often. Any of the platforms, you could say any tool, even like a tool that you have a subscription to that has an AI component might suggest a particular thing to do with your marketing or even just life. Right. And if you don't know what is a good answer or what we would call output, then you don't have the ability to scrutinize what it's telling you. And that's when it becomes dangerous. People are taking what is given to us as fact and that this is, you know, I'm gonna do air quotes here. Researched or validated? Actually, in fact, I volunteer in dog rescue and a dog, a foster parent was like, you know, I was, they were dealing with a veterinarian. The veterinarian's team was wonderful and competent and they were getting some blood work and waiting for the results to come to a conclusion. And a well intentioned foster said, well, I typed all the symptoms into ChatGPT or into AI and it says it's this. And right away the founder of the rescue who has a background in veterinary medicine said please be very careful. That is misinformation. We know it cannot be those things because we know the bigger picture and we know how to interpret these results. And it was like a very like out of my marketing world example that if you don't really understand what's being given to you, you don't have the ability to scrutinize if that is a good answer, is that good quote unquote strategy. And so what I really worry about is during this time of rapid evolution, good and bad adaptations, it's integrated into everything, is that some people are taking those like trust falls. And so people like you and I, who, you know, the good old fashion, you know, like we understand the ins and the outs, is that right away we have an eye for like, okay, this is how we can use it. This is what we should be careful with and proceed with caution. I think the way that I view the world is that we need to interpret everything we're given that could be an asset or helpful through a sort of critical lens. And just think like, is this actually useful to me? And I think we know there's some research. And again, I actually went digging around for it because it's in neuropsychology. And, you know, I used to be in neuropsychology and this, the headlines were all like, you know, kind of sensationalist, like a part of your brain dies when you use AI. Well, you know, I think that's, you know, it's one of these things that, like, if you actually read the research, they were just saying that during what is called an fmri, which is a functional mri, they can see that certain parts of your brain, when you engage in certain types of thinking. So if you outsource your thinking and your cognitive critical thinking skills to a robot or to AI, then your brain is less active in that area, which of course. Right. It's not like your brain has atrophy, it's just that you're not using a part of it that you would have used before. So that's where, you know, everything needs to be sort of interpreted through that lens. And I think that's why scouts are so important, because people are using it. Kate, whether we. Yeah, but are not. I would rather I decided to firmly move myself into the camp that to be blind was not going to help serve or help folks. And instead how can we use this with caution, with ethical parameters, you know, bundled up around it? Because denying it wasn't going to change that. Everyone has begun to use it.
- [19:51]
A
Yes, a hundred percent. So let's talk about those creative uses that you see. The good, if you will, of leveraging AI for your Pinterest marketing. Let's start with images. That's like the number one thing that people go to. Do you see a creative use for folding in an AI tool to create images for you, especially if you are image deficient. Because we know some people who come to us, they are not good at taking pictures. They don't have a lot of. They don't want to use stock photography, but they want something that feels uniquely theirs. What have been your use cases that you've seen that are good, healthy use of AI?
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B
Yeah, well, actually, so I support or have a lot of artists in my world and so they would use a lot of mock ups and their mockups are now being flagged as AI. Which is like sort of difficult because they're actually buying those images to use as like room mockups. We have surface pattern designers, illustrators, designers who are taking their unique patterns, adding them to a mockup and those images are now being flagged as AI. I think that's maybe not a, that's an example of where you're like, well that's not really AI. And then we've all heard the horror stories, right of like grilled cheese sandwiches that have like, you know, layers and layers of gooey cheese. That there's no way that what's. There's like I'm not a food person but there's like, you know, the velocity of the cheese is not possible.
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That. Or there's a hand with like weird finger placement holding it.
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Yes, I think we're. Or I knew one that someone told me about in the very early days was they were looking to design a laundry room in a small space and found this like gorgeous AI created images. They didn't realize it was AI until they saw that none of the pipes led anywhere. Like the pipes were just open and exposed. So I've heard some really interesting posting uses where people have like you said, been imaged like don't have a robust content library and have designed thoughtful AI images of mock ups or even room designs or interesting thing that's more information based. But it's done through their lens so they're making sure all the loops are closed. Some interior design images. What I, I guess what I little bit worry about is it all feels a little bit too perfect. I don't know if you searched hairstyles.
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Oh, they're awful.
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And I'm just like, but I could never have that hair because that is a per. Like that is an AI image of a haircut. So my hair is never going to be like that. So I do worry that there are some, especially in the beauty fashion or even like if you look at home decor, that a room would never be that beautiful. But then you could say, well you know, it's like a room in a magazine that's gorgeous and luxurious. Like would we ever achieve that at home? You know, I think that again it's through that same thing when it's human led. So if somebody is creating something with love and care and thoughtfulness and it's of their own idea and imagination. But then there's this crossover that AI is trained by sources of information. Can we know with full certainty, especially from a legal perspective, that it's not gathering data or information from a source that would be considered illegal or unethical. Like was it, was it gathered with permission? And that's where we get really, like I understand where artists, anyone who's creative, Right. That they feel very upset. I think that too, like the way that I see things is that there's always going to be copycats. There's always going to be. Be somebody who's taking, whether it's an artistic idea a thought. You know, it doesn't matter. We could, we could put it onto any niche, but they can't be you. They will never have your original idea and your unique lived experience and perspective on the world. And like that can't. That magic can't follow up. A robot could study the way you speak. A robot can look at the designs you make. And that, you know, I do feel awful for artists who have seen their books or their art style brought into AI. I also think on the positive, a lot of people who have Mobil, not necessarily mobility issues, but need to access the world in alternative means have had their worlds open up with the help of AI. And I think that's really incredible. Like there's a lot of good happening as well. Right. Or even saving people money. You know, I've seen people use it to come up with meal plans that, that are budgeted in a very specific way. And these are individuals who wouldn't necessarily have the means or ability to hire someone to help them do that. That, you know, that's, that deserves a mention as well. I think, you know, we're having this conversation right now. I bet in three months we could have another one and another one. So even if anyone's listening, know that this is something like the nature of science. There's, it's just going to continue to evolve. And the really important thing is we can't control change, but we can control how we react to change. And that's what I think a lot about. Right.
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A
Yeah. Well, in that maybe I'm thinking is there room for creators, e commerce business owners, artists to help educate their audience as to how they can try to discern or even putting on their images, human created content or artist, you know, created content. Where do you see that being a role in the next year or so as a distinguisher? Because to your point about like the AI modified labels that are on Pinterest, I appreciate the label and I love it, but it's definitely far from a perfect system just yet. And all categories are included. So it's this thing of okay, if somebody did AI generate a piece of or an Image. How do we get to the fact that maybe the AI content on the other side? Like, I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't necessarily have a problem with an image being created using AI. I think that could be really helpful for people. What I do have a problem with is the stolen art, artwork or books or whatever is on the other side of that pin. So do you think there's a place for business owners to somewhat like educate their audience or.
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B
Or.
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A
Or not. Maybe that's left to other people?
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B
Yeah, well, I think, you know, it's much like how we operate in other worlds. I think you educate yourself before you use something. I think you need to understand what you're using. And that's like each as a business owner, right? We have to take ownership the same way that if we hired a bookkeeper and they submitted our taxes, like, you know, it's us that if something's been done wrong, it's our name. So the same way that if you're creating images, you know, I'm gonna say something controversial. I just. It was running through my head. I don't know if I should say it, but I'm gonna go ahead. So I think you and I and other people in our worlds care a lot more than regular people do. I don't think. I think regular people, they don't really mind. And there's there. And what we're seeing on Pinterest is when people are very vocal about using Pinterest and maybe being a little bit disappointed with some of the experience of recent with the AI and ad saturation is that they are annoyed because they've been online for a long time. They remember maybe the glory days, good old days when all social media was less noisy and less disruptive. And we didn't see as many ads in general. But it's sort of like I think that regular people and some industries are more plagued than others.
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Right.
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I think there. It doesn't change that when you find something, you're excited, you found a tutorial or cool picture, and then you find out that you don't actually get to this long format source. I think that is one thing that the system will get better and better at is like sort of connecting those dots. Like they. We want to be expected some more. And if we find out that it was like, there's no real depth to the information or real. We're g. There's going to be a system for that. I do believe that Pinterest is really leading in trying to say, okay, this is where we're going. Their own algorithm and technology is based on machine learning. So how do we harness this? While, you know, advocating for both sides, I think that it's one of those things that I think regular people don't care as much as we do. I think we're proceeding with caution at this point and there's going to be very. It's going to continue to evolve. So I almost feel like anything I.
- [28:23]
A
Could say will be outdated and like I'm true. Yeah. And actually, I think what you said does hit the nail on the head with. It's kind of like that idea of counterfeit money versus real money. You start to understand what real money looks like because you do see counterfeit over and over. And for someone who is coming to a website and I'm reading through, like the top five jeans to buy for winter, and I'm like, this person doesn't have. I'm not hearing anything about their experience, nothing about their fit. And that's what I want. I want you to tell me this had a lot of stretch in it, or it fit me weird in the hips, or I'm a pair. And, you know, like, those are the assessments that I'm drawn to. So I actually agree with you. I think this will naturally work itself out. And it's not on the creator or the seller's shoulders to educate their audience. It's more. Let's just see how it plays out. And it's a tiny bit. Cross your fingers to say, I hope the counterfeit doesn't rise to the surface more than the authentic 100%.
- [29:24]
B
And I have seen. And you know what? I think that's going to continue to evolve. I've seen some accounts where they're creating some AI images that are from their own ideas, taking their own original ideas and maybe pictures, but then using AI to create a second version. And some of those pictures are doing really, really well. Which, you know, again, though, it's this idea that we move through the world in an ethical, honest way. We are ensuring that if we're putting something with our business's name or as a creator, that you have ownership of it and that you stand behind it. So if you're going to do it, then know what sort of like, you know, territory you're wading into and it's going to keep evolving. I think we're all using AI way more than we know we realize we are. Right. People don't even realize sometimes when they're talking to AI, which is boring as well.
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A
Yeah, that's true. Yes, very true. Okay, so we, we talked about the images. I guess the next thing I would say is how have you navigated people coming to you similar to your veterinarian with the foster? We've received this and I'm sure you have too. ChatGPT gave me this whole strategy for Pinterest. Tell me, should I do it? How would you tell people to navigate what CHAT is giving them?
- [30:44]
B
Sure. So again, I really talk about, like, when we are interpreting this information, we really do have to sort of step back and you'll, you'll notice that some of the early telltale signs are there. Like, you know, it will, it will reference things that we did, you and I and people that we know and clients. We had things that we did seven years ago, eight years ago. It pulls very outdated strategies. And I think it, sometimes it does kind of infuse some interesting ideas where it goes off the rails and brings in, like, completely not related to Pinterest. And maybe it's just interesting and new and novel. So I congratulate it on sometimes having interesting ideas. But I find that it's the blind leading the blind, you know, Like, I'm not wonderful at LinkedIn and when I ask it to create a LinkedIn strategy for me, it's better than nothing. But probably if any of my LinkedIn marketing friends saw that strategy, they would be horrified. I think that what we notice is that it will absolutely get people started who are maybe not active at all or don't really understand what makes Pinterest unique. And at the root of it is, you know, great content, getting consistent. And I do think it can help sort of open those doors for people. What we notice with, you know, it, it's going to tell you what it thinks you want to know. Often it gives outdated information and the strategy tends to be like, I don't know, I. Please tell me what you notice. But it just seems kind of all over the place.
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Totally. And very outdated.
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B
Yeah, outdated kind of all over the place. But again, like for maybe somebody starting at zero who has very limited resources or it's kind of laughable. Right. So I actually just last night had somebody reach out to me and they said, you know, I, I did this and then I did that, and ChatGPT told me this and I think it's, it's better. And I kind of laughed because soon as I read it, I was like, I could see why you think these pin titles or text overlay options are good, but you know that those, those are not Pinterest keywords, the ways that that's been constructed, again, better than nothing. But it's not actually mapping onto search behavior of people on Pinterest. So if your goal here is to grow on Pinterest, you have to conduct your own research. Do not outsource that. I really think that you know your audience best and if you don't know your audience, this is your sign to go get to know your audience. You know, we want to solve what they search, we want to think like they do. And I think that the best place to do that is on Pinterest itself. So, you know, I just think again, like, go to where they are, go look at how they're searching and then we take that information and help pinch have AI help us organize our strategy or even, you know, more what could be considered repeatable tasks. Like if you're scheduling out a lot of content that you know that that could be a big. A lot. Hours and hours. Right. Especially if you're not doing it all the time or it's not intuitive. I think you and I could probably do it our sleep.
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Yes, totally.
- [33:56]
B
That, that, like, you know, we just think like that. That's why you and I do this. Because these, these types of skills are intuitive to us, but to others they aren't. So what I always think about is you have to know what you want it to do so that you can fully again, human led. You can critically analyze what it's telling you and what it means in the context of the piece, the product, the service, the, you know, whatever it is you're wanting to post on Pinterest. And so I think it's like that's part of our skill is teaching people to understand their strategy so they're not just blindly following, you know, AI or other platforms. But yeah, I think that unfortunately right now it gives, you know, again, I don't want to. It's better than nothing, but it really is misinformed and it's not using one. SEO experts would tell you that even if it's tells you SEO phrases or key phrases, they are not based on actual search volume. So it's not able to pull Pinterest keyword search volume or in fact Google search volume either. So it's giving you keywords. It doesn't mean that there's any actual data behind those, those words that it's suggesting you use.
- [35:13]
A
Right. Which I think brings up a really valid point about leadership and history and data. And one of the things we talked about in a previous conversation was this idea of does AI replace the job of a Pinterest educator or a Pinterest manager. And I think that is a scary thing for some people who have gotten into this industry in the last couple of years who have managed for clients or are teaching.
- [35:40]
B
So talk to me a little bit.
- [35:41]
A
About how you see yourself as an expert expert leading people through the process alongside the multiple emails like Chat gave me this.
- [35:50]
B
How do you see your.
- [35:51]
A
How do you see you? And I guess I would say even myself or anybody in this leadership position, what is the value that we bring to the table when there's not an information scarcity?
- [36:02]
B
Right.
- [36:03]
A
Like we're in information abundance.
- [36:05]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So I think that subject matter expertise, service providers, thought leaders, marketing educators, no matter what space you're in, we have the critical thinking skills of our lived experience, our, our observations, our ability to note patterns and observations and understand what all this information means when brought together. So unfortunately, I don't think, you know, at this time, AI doesn't have the ability to synthesize all that information, context and also to identify patterns that our brains that are literally, you know, the brains, the gift we been given in this world, what it means in the context of that particular business owner of that particular account, it doesn't demonstrate the flexibility of what all the data means. So when you are managing an account, you understand what their content schedule is, you understand what kind of, you know, their keywords deeply. You're able to sort of see opportunities that maybe AI wouldn't. And when you and I talked before, I was telling you this story and I've thought so many times about this particular experience, now that I'm in this work that I do that when I was a school psychologist, we, our job was very traditional pen and paper at a desk. We would review all the student information, speak to parents, speak to teachers, sit in front of us, make observations, and then do these standardized assessments that were done in a very, very structured, unbiased way and then come together to critically analyze and synthesize what that information meant in the individual case of that student. So what does this number mean as it relates to everything else? How do we interpret this information and create a plan forward? So when I was still working in that job, I remember when they rolled out iPads and some of the doomsday folks in my team were like, oh, our jobs were going to be gone, like they don't even need us anymore. And I remember sitting down as one of the younger people on the teams and, you know, tech savvy. Also, I was secretly blogging at the time and I didn't tell anybody. Nobody knew. And in fact, one day at a like a lunch and learn, someone was like, have you ever heard about Pinterest? It's a valuable asset for people working in education. And my coworker, she was one of the only people that knew. She like turned and looked at me. She's like, are you going to tell them? And I was like, absolutely not. I am not telling them anything. We're just going to sit here and continue on. But at that time, what we talked a lot about is that yes, a computer can do one aspect of the assessment and in some ways would remove the potential of contamination or human error. Right. So as a human, I can make errors, but that number still needs to be critically interpreted through the unique circumstances of that child. And I think, I think about that story and that like that time in my life from a previous career, previous work in the work that we do now. So no matter what you, if you're a Pinterest manager, a marketing strategist or a leader in a team, is that that information needs to be critically analyzed and synthesized in the context of the business of what's going on. And I think that we understand it so deeply that if we were to give and be given an idea that was generated by AI, we have the ability to say like actually that's a really good idea or that's not a very good idea. You know, I think that that's when you outsource your thinking and your reasoning, then we have a problem. Right. But I will never. That's how I look at it, is that our ability to critically analyze and bring information together and that is the human component where why Pinterest managers, why marketing managers will always. And really, you and I both know that sure, it can help us with rote tasks, but we want to work with and support people who really also value initiative and, and, and getting tasks done and you know, being reliable there. You know, even if there's a, if ChatGPT goes down, a staff member is still able to do a particular job. I think that too, like when we spot opportunities and that's just the human brain, right. That we think differently. And I think marketing masters, no matter what, old school, new school AI, forward AI reluctant that we think in a different way, that is very cognitively flexible and that cannot be replaced at this time. Again, I would keep wanting to add things to.
- [40:47]
A
So if somebody's looking at.
- [40:49]
B
Sure. But right now I am not worried, especially with what I've seen. I Don't. There's another. I don't know if you've seen any examples of this, Kate, but I saw a great example and if you haven't seen this. So it was a brand designer. And she said, as a joke, you know what a lot of people keep saying that brand designers are done, you know, very extremist. And she said. So I decided to put it to the test. So she created like an identical. Two identical, like, brand, I guess. Like, what was the word she used? Like, proposals. All the same information. She went out and created a brand identity and then outsourced to ChatGPT or an AI tool. And then she compared them side by side. Oh, I was laugh crying, like, from the logo to the, the everything. It was so underwhelmingly hilarious what was generated by AI. And then she ends with like, sure, but go ahead and outsource your brand identity. And she, like, her particular project was so innovative, so interesting, like, I still have it in my brain. And then like, I think ChatGPT created like a logo with like a floppy piece of pizza with eyeballs. Like, it was the original, most unoriginal logo. And she just said, don't worry, like, my job is safe because job security people are always going to be flexible and grow and bring that certain je ne sais quoi to everything they do.
- [42:22]
A
Yeah. And it's the nuance, right? Like, that can't be pulled into Chat GPT or the nuance of her brand design or hearing a conversation from the client that she's working with and going, oh, what if we try this? It's like our brains are still superior in this place of being able to pivot. And I think that is so important with Pinterest and even internally as a team. We were talking about this this morning, that you can teach these foundations that can probably be taught with Chad GPT. You can, you can pull them in. They'll probably be outdated. They might still use the word promoted Pin versus Pinterest ads or whatever. But then there's the second layer that goes to each individual account to say your images, your copy, your keywords, the things that you're trying and the years that you've been in business. This is where the nuance layer happens, where you do need leadership through the process, where they do need someone to go, I just need someone to tell me if I'm on the right path. Or I just need someone to tell me if I should try this. And Pinterest, as we both know, is so unique because it takes time to get lift it's not this. This over this instant. I put up an Instagram post and I can get feedback right away, or maybe I do a second post in the week and now I can cross compare those two. You and I are pulling back and going, we need like six to nine months of data to be able to.
- [43:48]
B
See if this works.
- [43:49]
A
And so I hope that our conversation, which I think we're trending in that direction, is encouraging to people to say there is this inflection point of AI infusing so much of our lives and so much of Pinterest. But we see, and you said this earlier, Pinterest is forward thinking in how they can filter out AI, how they can try to create a good environment where you're not just seeing AI haircuts. Right. And they are the most responsive when it comes to their help desk and their troubleshooting. I can't get any of that from Google.
- [44:26]
B
I don't know about you, but that makes me proud. Like, even when there is constructive feedback, I think, look how many people with other platforms, if they run into problems. And you know, like, I think actually thinking about your daughter and their use and their own perspective on AI, I have to say that I do think Pinterest is this place that does tend to be forward thinking, actually thinking it through, not making impulsive decisions, thinking like, like, okay, well, how do we navigate it? It's here, it's going to show up, but what are we going to do about it? Listening and responding in sort of a thoughtful way and trying their best to include everyone. Like, it makes me very proud that you and I have been in this world and seen things, you know, change and come and go and, you know, that's the nature of social media. But to also be heavily in the trenches of an. A platform that takes initiative when it comes to all sorts of different things going on in the world. Right. I think that, you know, there's a gen. There's a, There's a group of individuals online, like, say, like your daughter, that are advocating for, you know, what does the future look like? You know, they're returning to using, like, what the type of, like, you know, digital. What are the analog style.
- [45:45]
A
Yes. Flip phones. My daughter was saying that the other day when we were in a thrift store.
- [45:49]
B
Thrift store.
- [45:50]
A
I mean, she's very Gen Z, which is like, I don't want to have, like, what's my footprint and all of that. And so I think, yeah, we're having these really great moments where it's like coming together But I agree with you and I do love Pinterest for that reason. And that's pretty much the reason I always give to somebody who's like, are you going to go into Instagram? No way. Like, I can't even begin to think about trying to navigate the changes and every other day and what that looks like, it's, it's not for me.
- [46:21]
B
Yeah.
- [46:22]
A
And Pinterest is just so easy, don't you think?
- [46:24]
B
Like, especially you and I both know a lot of people who are Pinterest managers, strategists, we know the marketing directors who are overseeing the Pinterest projects on the team. I feel like it's just like we're built different.
- [46:35]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's true.
- [46:37]
B
Not only do we.
- [46:38]
A
Are we long suffering?
- [46:39]
B
Yeah. Like, oh, we're in it for the long haul. Yes, we really, I think that we, we understand that, you know, when you are responsible for helping a business owner grow online, we have to sort of reverse engineer that growth with all these other aspects. And so I always call it, like, sometimes there's other platforms that are flashier. Right. So they're flashier. And Pinterest maybe isn't flashy, but it offers something so unique to business owners and it does just attract people who move through the online world and marketing and growth in a different way. And truly, I think it is much more, I don't know, like if, if you don't create content that's rooted in the, in your customers and their needs and their wants, then you're gonna, it's. Pinterest is gonna be a hard slog.
- [47:28]
A
So.
- [47:28]
B
And that attracts different people, right, who wanna create blog content, wanna create content that lives on their website. That's helpful, that's practical, that's valuable. And not all business owners wanna operate in that way and that's okay. But then Pinterest Raleigh isn't going to be a good cup of tea. Right?
- [47:45]
A
That's true. That's a good point. Okay, so on that, what are you excited for in 2026 as it relates to your community, as it relates to your impact in this space? Like, what are you looking forward to? And you have a course, you have a community. Tell me, tell me what you're looking forward to.
- [48:03]
B
I noticed this new openness towards Pinterest and I think it's been a slow burn. We've seen it. It's been on the horizon for a long time. I do feel like we're reaching peak fed upness with social media, especially those of us who have been online for A long time.
- [48:19]
A
Yeah.
- [48:19]
B
I think that we are looking for return to the basics. We're looking for sustainability. So I see sort of Pinterest is emerging. I always joke is that like, what's the like cool thing? Like she's that girl right now, like.
- [48:33]
A
She'S having a moment.
- [48:34]
B
I think it's like, you know, like a renaissance. And probably I called this whistle two years ago or blew the whistle, but it was a little bit too early. I think that we're seeing people who normally might not be interested in Pinterest as a business tool or growth tool who are saying, you know what, maybe you guys are onto something. So I'm seeing this like return to like slower marketing, marketing that continues to work with that. I'm also seeing the impact of social search and we've seen that happen in Google. We're seeing those signals to AI. And I think that what we're, what people are realizing is that they need to shift how they create content to promote their business. So a lot of people who maybe have had a rise a few years ago are kind of plateauing or even feeling a decline due to disconnection with their people. And so what I'm thinking is I'm gonna, we're gonna see again hopefully the expansion of scout led AI, you know, like human led AI, you know, being critical of advances and being loud and proud when we don't like something like say the, you know, the AI saturation on Pinterest, they listened. Right. I love that. I think we're hopefully going to continue to see people feel comfortable in their own skin and bringing that human element to their marketing founder stories and they're using their own voice. Yeah, I don't know. I think we're just going to see this like search and social search and people are very, very interested obviously in how to get their businesses and products favored by AI. I still think we have quite a far way to go. But there's going to be voice, I think is going to be key in 2026. And my husband says that from a developer's perspective is that voice integration is going to be really big. I'm excited. You know, I feel very optimistic, especially because of people like your daughter. Right. Who are demanding sort of like this. We don't all have to be sheep. We can, you know, shape where things go. And I love, love, love seeing that. And I, I just think that we're going to continue to see the expansion of the online world. You know, it just grows every year. So many people sadly have lost their jobs in this economy and then they're sort of baking, you know, making lemonade from lemons and becoming online entrepreneurs. And, and it's, it's kind of cool.
- [51:05]
A
Yeah, it is really cool. And to your point of like the new people embracing Pinterest, what we've seen is a lot of their analytics result back in getting good growth. And those who have been on Pinterest for a while, there is that decline, which is frustrating. But I, I just wonder if it's a course correction too of like everything kind of sit going where it will or sifting or, or just needing that new stuff. And for a lot of our clients too, they are exhausted at creating content if they've been in this game for a long time. So it is easy to want to hit the pause button and I would say do that for a little bit, like hit the pause button and then come back when you're ready to kind of infuse that voice, infuse your, you know, that trust building piece when you're ready kind of on your own terms. Because I think that is what's going to drive it through is that people who say, okay, this is me, I'm gonna take the good of AI, I'm gonna leave the bad behind and I'm gonna find a way to bridge a connection with my end user and my customer or my reader so that I can sustain. And is it gonna look big and flashy? Probably not. Because I think those gone are those days of the crazy viralness or the crazy, you know, I'm not on TikTok, so I don't know. I'm sure there's a lot of that that exists there. But I think that people will start to silo down where they do use search, right? Yeah. Where they will trust Pinterest for one thing, trust YouTube for one thing, trust Google or Chat for another. And I even, I remember reading about Gen Z. Who is this now this upcoming generation, right. Like they're becoming online more and more with all these platforms that they do silo things. Things, they silo their email addresses, they silo their, you know, like I think that will be kind of the way we move forward. Which makes our marketing and our choice of what platforms to market even more important and intentional. Instead of choose all the things, it's like you're gonna, well one, you're gonna burn out. But two, I don't even think that's an option anymore because your customer's so different on each one.
- [53:19]
B
I think we're gonna, yeah, we're just gonna see this evolution. People are gonna. You're gonna have to figure out how to. You know, I couldn't help but think when you were speaking that we're like a little bit going back to like, the blogging days.
- [53:31]
A
Yes.
- [53:32]
B
Right. Like, we're seeing this turn of, like, you know, how many tutorials were there about painting a piece of furniture. But, like, everyone had their unique approach, their unique way, the way they photographed it, shared their experience. It's about the story that's gonna. I think we're gonna return to some of that magic and the people who are comfortable with it and tap into that are gonna be rewarded and by the algorithms, you know, no matter where they show up. And those that, you know, those that maybe always struggle to do that to start with will continue to struggle and hopefully they'll seek, you know, wonderful leaders in different spaces to help them find their voice. That's just, you know, part of. Part of marketing.
- [54:14]
A
I love that. That's such a good point to end on. Megan, where can people go to connect with you and follow along on your journey?
- [54:20]
B
Well, thank you for having me and inviting me into your world. Always, always love sharing ideas with you so people can find me on my website. Meganwameson.com My company is called pin potential. That's where we have all our courses and products. Or you can come see me across any social. I am an omnipresence girl. I, you know, come from. I'm a. I'm a child of accessibility. So if you love long format, my blog and video and short video, all the things, you know, it's. I always laugh that you. I can't get away from the world of accessibility when I think about my own content because that. And you know what that's like people like you and I who have always done that. I think that this is our time to shine.
- [55:00]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's very true, very true.
- [55:03]
B
And we're going to leave all the.
- [55:04]
A
Links below in the description. But what a joy from even just our previous conversation that we had into this conversation and just kicking off 2,026. Thank you so much for joining me.
- [55:15]
B
Thank you for having me.