A (4:04)

I was a first time contestant, you know.

B (4:07)

Yeah, it was, it was, I mean, such an honor. I. So I won the title of Mrs. Oregon America. And then I got to compete in Vegas later that summer and met women from all over the country. And then like you said, I, you know, my full year of service was from May 2024 through May 2025. So I got to crown my successor last spring.

A (4:26)

Wow. What I mean, I love one that statement that's going to stick with me of creating unique experiences. You jumped into this. You're clearly a quick start. So it's not something you had to think about or fact find for a while, but you're doing this at the same time while you're an entrepreneur and you're growing a business. What did this experience teach you about entrepreneurship?

B (4:51)

You know, I think there is actually a lot of parallels between what, what I experienced both as a contestant and a title holder in pageantry, and what we do every day as business owners, which is to show up, tell a story in Pageantry is telling a story around a cause that's important to you in, in the pageant world, you know, they call it like, what's your platform? You'll hear people ask that all the time, what's your platform? What's your cause? It's usually something that is close to your personal life. For me, I, I used the pageantry as an extension of the work I was already doing in my business at cubicle to CEO. So how do we help support women entrepreneurs, women backed businesses? And I believe that businesses in many ways are the best way for women to become financially independent, to have the resources to be able to, you know, as, as a mutual friend has shared, to bankroll the change we want to see in the world. And so I really felt that a lot of the skills that I learned through entrepreneurship, public speaking, being able to connect with people of all different backgrounds, right. Networking, all of these skills really came into play in the pageant world as well. And if anything, the pageant world added to my skills. Because, for example, one of the things that came out of me winning Mrs. Oregon is I ended up doing this kind of like mini press tour for different TV and radio stations and, you know, newspapers, things of that nature, but in tv. And one of those TV interviews actually ended up becoming a recurring guest spot at the local ABC station. So I. That was a huge opportunity that came out of that. But I had to learn how to answer questions in that format in like sound bites in 2 minutes, 30 seconds, whatever it looked like. Because here on a podcast, you and I can talk for, you know, up to an hour. That's pretty normal. And it's long form content, that's what I'm used to as a podcast host and guest. But having to learn how to answer questions in, you know, 90 seconds on TV or in 15 seconds on stage when you're asked an onstage question, those types of skills were more refined through.

A (7:03)

This process that is amazing. You just get to see both angles, right? Like I. And I got to witness that too. In fact, as you're talking, I'm thinking about your event Bloom Together, which we'll talk about in a second. But as I was watching you holding the card, cards up there and asking them questions, I was like, she has this dialed in. Like she. I mean, and I would imagine that came from this full year of watching other people interview you, you being interviewed and kind of assessing the whole situation and taking it all in, which is such a unique experience in and of itself, because then you can pass that on to the people that you Lead and you guide and you coach. So actually, let's make that leap to bloom together, because you and I were in a community together, and someone had recommended that I go to your event. We're both in Oregon, so not a far drive for me. And so I signed up. It was in September. I'm getting the dates right.

B (7:59)

Okay, you are.

A (8:00)

You are.

B (8:00)

Yeah.

A (8:00)

I was, like, putting it all together. And also for you to note, you're not only running a business While you're doing Mrs. Oregon America, you are actually also planning for this event. So multiple plates spinning. But one of the things that really caught my eye about this is that you sent out an email close to the event that shared about, like, all the details. It's a very typical email that you get where to go, what, you know, what time. But you also added in there this Pinterest collage that linked to a Pinterest board that talked about what to wear. And I caught that, and I thought, I've never seen an event organizer do this, because the number one question that women have is, who? What do I wear? And so they first asked their friends. So you took this leadership to say, okay, here's. Here's the look, essentially, I know it's such a small thing, and we're having kind of a big conversation around all of this, but what even made you think to use Pinterest? Like, I just don't think a lot of people would have even put together to share a Pinterest, I guess, Lookbook.

B (9:02)

It meant so much to me, Kate, when you reached out and. And shared your sentiment or observation around this with me, because, again, it was something like a small detail I had included. And I didn't expect it to have a big impact or for anyone like you to really notice that as. As unique or different. But I think, to your point, I've been to so many events, and I know that's a question that's always on my mind, is a question on other people's minds. And so I really always want to make sure I've hosted many smaller events. Bloom Together was by far our largest event we had ever sold out. We had 200 people come. It was blown away by the response. And all the people traveling in from out of state. Right. We. I mean, we both live in Oregon, but we had attendees come in from 15 different states and countries, which was wild to me. And so I really wanted to make sure that if people were making the effort, whether locally or from afar, to. To come to this event, that every other detail was taken care of and that they didn't have to think too hard about how to show up or how to take advantage of this event. So I try to be really, really thorough in my event prep and emails. And so that was one piece of why I thought to even include some sort of lookbook, because I had already gotten some private questions in DMS and I knew that most people were also thinking it, even if they hadn't asked it directly. But as far as using Pinterest as the, the, the channel through which to share this, part of it is just ease like Pinterest makes it so easy, right, to get exposed to a wide variety of ideas, or in this case, visual looks and be able to curate them all together in a boring board. And then for me to share that board was a lot easier than, let's say, compiling a bunch of photos in, you know, a gallery or, or on my phone and trying to like, share a folder with people. It's just easier for the other person to consume as well. And then, you know, I didn't take it this far this time, but maybe at a future event I would consider doing this. I think Pinterest is just such a great way to crowdsource ideas and for people to feel like they're co creating something. And so maybe in a future event if I created the base like here's my vision of the lookbook and then passed off to people, made it an editable board where other people could also contribute their pins, that would be really fun to see. Hey, what are, what are your other attendees, your fellow attendees actually planning to wear? You can get a look at not just what's in my head, but what's in everyone's head. And it kind of makes it feel more, more like a community effort, which was the entire point of Bloom Together. It was all centered around how community is our competitive advantage in business.

A (11:38)

And actually in the thread where you shared that inside the community, people started posting what they were wearing. So actually before you said it, I was thinking, oh, next time a community board would be so great because then people could see it. Fun note is that you had on your panel Lyric of the Workplay branding and I connected with Lyric after we have a. We did a podcast together and that was actually one of the things that we talked about was how she leverages Pinterest to collaborate with her clients to be able to create that lookbook so she can understand what's in their heads. And I actually think too, when you do that, especially even as a big group, what you start to see is what your attendees, what their style is, what they are wanting to show up, how they want to show up and represent themselves at your event. And I have to say one great thing is that everybody who showed up, it was like it wasn't just you curating the event. They were, they were helping you do it. It was like through that small action of telling them what to wear. It was like, oh, this is perfect. Like you, you have. Because people could have shown up in what was hot that day. Like, really was really hot.

B (12:53)

I have a really bad luck, Kate, with choosing. I always. This happens to me. There was one event I remember I did in 2022.

A (13:01)

It was.

B (13:01)

Thankfully, both events I've done were by the water, but it, it was a heat wave. The day that I hosted it in 22, a different event altogether, but bloom together. You know, I. I picked the date back in April. So in Oregon, it's always a little bit uncertain what the weather is going to look like in September. So anyways, that's a sidebar. But I will say it was. It was so cool to look around. I felt like I was walking in a fashion show, just walking around the grounds. People were dressed to the nines.

A (13:32)

It was.

B (13:32)

I mean, I was done. They were stunning. It was even the handful of men that bought tickets to the event, they also dressed up like they fully participated in that theme of like, garden party, soiree, whatever. And it was so beautiful just to see the colors and the designs and the fashion come to life. We even, even had an actual fashion designer there who like, wore this gorgeous gown that she had hand designed.

A (13:55)

Yes.

B (13:56)

I don't know if you bumped into her, but she was like, I mean, wow, 10 out of 10.

A (14:01)

Yeah. It was like everywhere you went, you kind of bumped into people.

B (14:04)

Yeah.

A (14:04)

And I think actually what made it even cooler was that you were not only just facilitating an event and it was your biggest event yet, but I think even in the fashion, even in these experiences, you were pulling people together with like a common denominator so then they could start to tell their story to each other. Right. And I didn't think about that until now, but it was like people would ask maybe the fashion designer or what other people were wearing or why'd you choose this? Which led to tell me about your business. Tell me about where you're going. So I'd love to know more about just the, the entrepreneurs that you had there, types of businesses, or I guess even what you expected didn't match that. And then we'll kind of go from there and where your next phase of business is going. But I guess, yeah. Tell me more about the entrepreneur that was there beyond their fashion.

B (14:57)

Yeah, I mean, I was so excited because we truly had such a diverse representation. And I, I truly mean that in every sense of the word. But I agree. Even, even within, like, like, if we're talking about industry or, or, you know. Prof. Not profession, expertise, we just had such a variety of businesses. You know, we had everything from retail brick and mortar entrepreneurs to media entrepreneurs, to people who are online service providers or coaches, to people who sell e Comm products, like who created their own consumer brands. Right. So physical products. I mean, it was just across the board, there were so many different types of businesses. We had real estate agents, we had hairstylists, we had, you know, it just everything across the board. And I loved that because for me, one of the things I think has allowed me to be more creative in business is that I'm always, always trying to look outside my own niche, my own bubble, to source ideas. And so I, you know, exist as an online business cubicle. The CEO is a media company. And if we narrow down even further, you know, I got my start in the social media services space and then eventually evolved into online education, like courses, coaching, retired from coaching programs in 2023, and then, you know, have since existed as a, as a media business. But even within my bubble, you know, there's, there's a lot of the sameness. And so I really like to get outside of my industry, outside of the type of business. And I learned so much from observing brick and mortar businesses, from observing econ businesses, from just observing different types of entrepreneurs. And so I really think that was a strength of our event and something I will continue to strive to do to bring together a diversity of people at future events.

A (16:50)

Yeah, I met somebody who was a university professor and she was from Canada, and I loved even listening to her and talk about where she was at. And I agree with you, there is. It's so easy to get into our own bubbles. One, because we do want this affirmation of am I on the right track? And we are very similar. So this gives me kind of this litmus test of whether or not I'm on the right track. But in agreement with you is that when we get outside of that and we just start listening to other people's stories and we're listening to their experiences, all of a sudden it bumps up against what we have in us and we go, oh, I didn't think about it. That way because we didn't have a different vantage point. So I think what you're doing is so unique and needed. And actually that's even a goal for me this year is to go to different events that I never would have gone to before, just so that I can sit in the room and absorb the experiences of what is happening, to be a better business owner, because you want to be able to speak to. You don't want to be able to speak to everybody's problem, but you want to be able to show up with an empathy, with a. Like a listening of. I want to track with you, I want to understand what you're doing. And not only do I want to understand, I want to also learn from it, and I want to walk alongside it. So I'd love for you to tell me a little bit about 2026, what that has for you. I listened to your podcast the other day where you're talking about switching from a free podcast that you've had for a long time. By the way, you should sign up for Ellen's emails. I love them. I've taken a lot of inspiration from them. And just you sharing case studies, and I don't know if you did this intentionally, but I'll say this is what I observe, especially now that you're talking about this is. You're saying, I'm going to go out and I'm going to be in these diverse experiences, and then I'm going to share these experiences with people that might. Maybe they haven't even thought about getting into these spaces, but I'm going to actually pass on those experiences to other people so they can feel like they're in these different spaces with case studies. And so I, I love that. So that's like a little sidebar there. But tell me more about how you want to continue to facilitate that in 26, and I guess the big leap of going to a premium model.

B (19:07)

Yeah. Well, first of all, very astute observation, Kate. I feel like you're so good at, at picking up on these, like, subtle nuances. Exactly what you said. I learned that best in, in my own life through experimentation. But I know not everybody has that same risk factor. Right. Or. Or learns in the same way. So I kind of, you know, the way we've built our podcast and our newsletter is really, how can we go first? Either we like me and my company personally or the guests that we invite our show on our show. How can we do the experiments for you and then bring back what worked, what didn't you know, how we executed things, what the results were. We're very data driven show as you know. And so people exactly get to almost like live vicariously through the experiments of other people. Other case studies that we feature on our show and in our newsletter, the CEO stand up. So that is the premise of the content that we're creating. And as far as moving to a premium model, this is something that's kind of been a long time coming. You know, I started my podcast in July of 2019. It's been. What is that, six some years?

A (20:17)

Almost seven.

B (20:18)

Almost seven. Yeah, almost seven years. We've had, we've produced over 400 episodes now at this point. And it, it really has been a huge investment of our company's resources. And I mean that both from a time perspective, which by the way, if you want like the nitty gritty, if you're listening to this and you kind of want the nitty gritty details behind how we came to the this decision, how we're executing this decision, you can go to our podcast, I'm sure Kate.

A (20:43)

I can get, link it to the exact one. It is fascinating. I would say if anybody wants to watch someone transition from this in real time, I think you and your producer did such a good job of laying it out and teeing it up. And I love to watch people who are making transitions because I would say in this online space it is very nerve wracking to make pivots or transitions because sometimes people have never done it before or you don't know how it will be received. So you as a business owner are saying, okay, I'm going to take this leap, kind of hope it works. I'm really excited about it, so I hope other people pick up the excitement too.

B (21:22)

Yes, it's always a risk for sure. Luckily, we have been fortunate that all the feedback I have gotten, at least privately or anything that I've seen publicly has been positive. You know, I, I'm sure there may be people who feel differently, but you know, I, they have a right to that opinion and, and we have a right to make the, the best decision right for our business and the sustainability of it. And ultimately that is what it comes down to. So long story short, the, the driving factor behind making this move is, is twofold. One, you know, over the last six some years, a large percentage of my time. And then like I mentioned in the episode, our full time employee, she was a full time employee for about four years before she opened her own business and now we're a client of hers. But you know, one, at least one full time W2 age. And then a good significant chunk of mine was dedicated to creating the show for many, many years for free. Basically. Like yes, we would earn some small amounts of ad revenue through it, but nothing that would even, I guess, cover production costs. Right. And so that was one part is like, how can we make this more sustainable if we want to continue to do the show long term? But the second piece of it really comes down to how can we continue to improve this show, bring on even higher caliber guests, higher dedicated social team to really grow this show? How are we able to invest in those things further without dedicated revenue from this thing that you know, we invest so much time and labor into? And so because of that, you know, the math has to math. And so that's why we decided to pivot into. Let's, let's go back to the people that we create this content for. It's not the sponsors, it's our subscribers. And how do we work with our listeners to co create a product? We already treat our show as a paid product even though it's been free for six years. But how do we continue to improve upon that and iterate on that and create an even better experience for our listeners so they truly feel like every episode they listen to is like a masterclass. They walk away with something very specific and tangible that they can apply, even if it's just expanding their mind to again, new ideas, what's possible, things that people are testing in businesses outside of their own. So very excited to see how that experiment goes as of this record recording right now, Kate, we have not even yet launched the subscription. It'll be going live in probably a week or two's time. But we have launched a wait list and this was another fun experience and I kind of played with is this was my first time offering a paid wait list. So it was only a dollar, right? Like people only had to pay a dollar. So wasn't anything wild obviously. But the idea behind it is we wanted people to join the wait list to be part of some of our pre launch decisions. Again, this idea of co creation is really central to everything we do and I wanted people's feedback who were actually invested in the future of the show. So how we framed it was pledge a dollar to get on our wait list. You'll be added to a behind the scenes group chat where we're gonna be, you know, sending polls about like right now in the group chat, they're helping us pick our show covers, right. But that $1 will actually be credited toward their first month subscription of the podcast. So it's kind of just like a, almost like a pre order, but only paying, you know, a dollar a portion of whatever it's going to be. But you know, it, it really does act as a way to filter your most loyal, most invested listeners. So I've actually really enjoyed this experiment and I'm sure I'll have more to share on it, you know, once it's concluded and we launch the, the, the, the full subscription.

A (25:08)

Well, and I also think one of the unique parts about 2026 is this shift in AI and how AI is swooping up content.

B (25:16)

Right.

A (25:16)

So there's an element of creators and developers of podcasts or blog posts or whatever that I think there's a point of fatigue that says I have put out so much and it's not like I don't want to be generous, but I kind of want to pull that back into the, the inner fold of those who are invested, like you said, those who want to build with me and those who want to have a more intimate part of that story. Because if we think of this, I guess, behind the scenes or this inner circle community and we want to curate that, if we look at the options out there, it's like, okay, we have Instagram, that feels kind of connected, but really we never know who's going to see our posts or what's going to happen with the algorithm, or then we have email or then we have podcasts. So what you get is you kind of sharing behind the scenes, but only these weird fractions in weird places get a chance to see that. And so you don't have the ability to curate or connect with them. Whereas when you swoop it all up into this place that says here is now, this kind of, for lack of a better phrase, like sacred space. And we get to talk about these things, we get to move together and it's ebb and flow. If you want to be a part or not be a part, you can certainly do that. But it's this one container now where you get to have full expression. And you know that like those who are in there receive it 100 guarantee because they've, they're in it instead of wondering. And there's a lot of relief for a creator and I think a little bit of more releasing of creativity when you have that container and you're not, I guess, bound up by an algorithm.

B (26:59)

Yes, exactly. And I, I think too, just the nature of podcasting as a medium, I'm sure you've experienced this yourself as a podcast host is there isn't a whole lot of feedback unless. Unless you're like specifically asking people. I mean, sure, once once in a while people will naturally just DM or whatever and be like, oh, this episode really resonated with me, or I love this guest case study or whatever. But for the most part, there's not a whole lot of dialogue happening with listeners. It's very much kind of like a. Even for the listener, it's a very siloed experience. Right. They're not talking to fellow listeners about their thoughts in the way that people read books or blogs or consume really any other form of media. And so I really love that being able to move this to a premium model where every paid subscriber also has access to a private off social community for conversations around the episodes also allows people to engage in that dialogue. So they're not just listening to something and kind of in their own mind around, okay, how, how does this fit within my business? Or how can I take this idea and xyz, right. They're able to have those conversations. We're able to hear and listen into those conversations and participate and facilitate as well. So I think there's a lot of benefits to what you're saying, what you're observing in 2026 of people being more intentional about creating their own defined spaces. And it definitely wraps back around into, you know, the conversation we've been having around community and how important it is to build and create your own community. Even if you don't think of your business as a community model, I think that is what makes your brand sustainable or differentiated from other businesses offering similar services, products or offers.

A (28:41)

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think I totally resonate with that of I will meet people in person who have listened to the podcast and they'll say, oh my gosh, I've listened forever. Or I love this. But you don't get that like as a, you know, we're having this conversation and we hope there's lots of listeners to it and that it impacts them in different ways and kind of sparks their idea of having unique experiences. But we rarely, if ever, get an opportunity to have follow up. So it is such a joy to be able to listen to people who say, this hit me in this way. And what this does for you and I as creators and podcasters and people who tell stories is we go, oh, I have somebody else that I can tell their story. Or oh, you liked that, that's awesome. I didn't know if anybody would love that, so now I can create more.

B (29:31)

More.

A (29:31)

And it fuels this kind of creative beast in you that isn't there when you go to Instagram.

B (29:39)

Yes, a hundred percent, yes. And, and again, with like Instagram or, or social platforms, I, I mean, I love social. I'm like one of the few people probably who actually really genuinely enjoy the, the conversations and things that happen on social for the most part. But it, it is interesting. Even on those platforms. There's. So it's, it's a different experience. Experience still than having like a private community. Because there's so many distractions. People show up to social, not usually to seek out your specific content. Right. It's like they're kind of being fed the content that the algorithm thinks they'll like and then they fall down different rabbit holes based on that. But when you kind of create your own, as you said before, like sacred space to invite people into and you define and control the exception experience that's presented, then it's, it's a totally different, you know, it's a totally different thing. And so I, I love that, that people are really paying attention to that more and thinking through how can I develop these deeper connections with my people, whether they're clients or casual consumers of the content you're creating.

A (30:43)

Yeah. We jumped into a new private community this year too. We're using school, it's SPM Insiders. And for me already I have felt like almost like my voice is back and my connection with my community is back. And we used to have a Facebook group ages ago. I shut it down. It was just too much. And as I was even going through today and like writing in there, I'm like, oh, this is so free. This is so exciting to connect on a new level. So I, I think that's why I'm excited for you because I, I know that element of the inside where you go now I can, I mean, I love social too, but I think there's this element of I, I never, I feel caught up by the game. Right. And you feel caught up by rules, whereas when it's your own community, it's like, well, the only rules are really what I set out.

B (31:33)

Yes.

A (31:34)

Beyond that, I can have so much fun with this.

B (31:36)

100%. Yeah. I love that. And I think that, you know, it's also, when you're looking at the long term of things and this is something that I, I wish I, I don't know if I wish I had this perspective earlier, but I definitely have gained this perspective over time. Is looking at your your business as an asset and how you make it a stronger asset that exists outside of you. And what I mean by that is, you know, I, I went through actually a formal valuation of my business about a year and a half, two years ago and that was really eye opening. Even if I never choose to, to sell this business someday. It's just interesting to know how would like an objective third party value your business based on, you know, the systems, the ip, the, the brand relationships, whatever it might be that you've created. And I think having your own community is one of those assets where it's like I own control of, control and distribution of, of this in a way that creating a community on social, you can't, it doesn't, I mean sure, social presence can value into your business valuation, but it's not the same thing as an owned asset. And so I think anytime you can move something into an asset that you own, it's a, it's a smart move for your business.

A (32:45)

So true. I love that you did that. I did that a couple years ago too and it, it surfaced a few things for me that I didn't realize and it was, it felt weird to do. It almost was like this weird betrayal of like, oh, I'm going to sell this or not. But then I went back and I said it's just to your point, another unique experience that allows me to get, see something from a new vantage point. And I started following somebody else who talks about businesses that are being sold and I've just learned so much by watching their stories unfold and thinking to myself why did they sell? How did they get to this point? So actually I think that's a good like close point for us and I'd love for you to share if let's. As we're talking about listeners to podcasts and things that we would say to them as a creator, e commerce seller or somebody listening to this, who's a service provider even, what would you pass on to them for 20, 26, like maybe a challenge that you would want them to try that really helps them build in unique experiences and get outside their bubble.

B (33:47)

There's so many great business ideas that have been pulled from life experiences of mine that have nothing to do with business. So I would really challenge anybody listening to either go for a bucket list experience, right. Just like I did with pageantry, or learn a new skill or join a community of people who have some sort of shared interest outside of business. Like for example, like this past summer I got really into fan fictions. I'm Like I had never known about this world right before I randomly got fed this content on Facebook and then I was like, oh my gosh, what is this? And I went down a rabbit hole. I've read like so many now and, and again, nothing to do with business, but I am learning even in the way that like how these people organize around, you know, sharing content, how, how they structured things, how how this whole like behind the scenes industry kind of works, I'm like, oh, wow, that's fascinating. And so getting into different communities, trying new skills, whatever it may be, it keeps you on your toes and it works. Really expands your horizons and your creativity in a way that just sitting and thinking in your business, I think never will produce. And so highly recommend that the other thing for 2026 is not so much for 2026 specifically, but just something again that I've really, really zoomed in on in the last two years that I wish this one I do wish I had thought about more just from the get go when I started my business in 2018. And that is really understanding how am I leveraging my business as a way to actually grow my personal wealth and financial independence. I think so many business owners, and it doesn't matter what type of your business you're running, right? So many business owners are obsessed with chasing whether it's revenue or even bottom line profit, but they have no idea how to translate even their profit into anything meaningful in any, like any long standing income source that doesn't rely on them. And if you're not moving money out of your business into your own, growing your own personal wealth into investments, income producing investments that are able to generate income without you, then you're really doing yourself a disservice because especially as a business owner, if you don't have a traditional retirement plan, right, like you need to be thinking about how is it that this thing that I'm creating is actually going to help me sustain my life later on so that you're not stuck working in your business until you're, you know, 100 years old?

A (36:22)

Yes. Yeah.

B (36:23)

Well, I, I think that's something just to kind of think about, like zooming out a little bit from the tunnel vision that we can get around our businesses and really just understanding how it plays. Again, I keep using that word, asset, but really it, it needs to be an asset in your life and you need to think about how that is, you know, how that is actually impacting and, and supporting your other life goals. And that's definitely something I'm very Passionate about as an investor in many different types of things. I have angel investments, I invest in real estate. I have my business. We're actually in the middle of like a, a business acquisition deal for a local business that's like brick and mortar.

A (36:57)

So.

B (36:58)

Yeah. So I'm not gonna, you know, go off. Yeah. Here. But just like expose yourself to, to new ideas here. Follow people who are creating content around things of this nature so that you can learn how to really leverage your business in a way that serves you long term well.

A (37:15)

And I think that's especially important for somebody who maybe started their business on a whim or fell into it or it was a hobby and they now find themselves with this business. I've interviewed lots of accountants too, who will say people don't even separate their finances sometimes between business and personal. And I'm like, oh my word. So like anxiety. I know me. So even this idea of expanding into a space to think about assets, just get your wheels turning. Just think about where you can either invest in other things or like you said, personal wealth. And I agree with you actually that a lot of people will chase the top line number is one that people always push like a gross revenue or kind of this mythical. It's not mythical because it can happen, but it's this reach for the six figure.

B (38:03)

Right.

A (38:03)

It's this number, but there's so much more behind it and moving out of that and going, okay, what does this mean for me? What does income growth mean for me or wealth, you know, acquiring wealth mean? So I love that challenge for 2026. So you've dropped a lot of like little seeds. And I know there's going to be people who want to follow along. I know I will. And I'm already on your email list. So tell people how they can connect with you.

B (38:31)

Thank you, Kate, so much for this opportunity. I, I would love for you to join us on our list. As Kate said, the CEO Standup is our weekly Wednesday newsletter that goes out that always features the case study of the week. And so if you're someone who I like to say is a little nosy but in a good way, like you, you kind of like to see what are other people doing in their businesses, what are they testing, how's it going? You know, what are the numbers? That's what our newsletter is all about. So the link will be below in the show notes, I'm sure. But for just day to day content around our podcast, Cubicle the CEO, you can follow us at Cubicle the CEO. And then if you're more interested on the, you know, what are you doing outside of your everyday business then my personal account at Ms. Ellen Yin. This year I'm planning to share a lot more content around the other investments and the other business deals that I do outside of my main business. And so if that's of interest to you, come say hi, send me a dm. Say, you know, hey, I heard you on Kate's podcast. I'd love to know where our common connection is.

A (39:30)

Oh, I love that.

B (39:31)

All right.

A (39:32)

I'm gonna for sure follow you and just watch it the whole way through. So thank you so much Ellen for sharing so much wisdom and experience with us so that we can pass it on to others. I really appreciate it.

B (39:44)

Thank you.

A (39:45)

Okay, I rarely do outros on this podcast, but I had to share two things that I didn't get to share while we were talking. Number one, at the end Ellen was talking about engaging in watching different things or reading different she talked about her fan fiction. I just recently watched the Taylor Swift documentary about the ERAS tour on Disney and I will tell you, I walked away with more lessons about business leadership for your community and for your team than I have in a long time. They were subtle and some of them were not so subtle. They popped up around there and I thought these are so cool. So go watch it. Taylor Swift ERAS documentary. It's a six part series on Disney plus Number two. If you want access to that behind the scenes where I am talking more about these interviews, my thoughts, there are a lot of them these days. You can join SPM Insiders for a really low monthly fee. Just click down below in the description. You'll see see a link to it. You can cancel anytime. But it is such a fun community already where we are having conversation about the latest news with Pinterest. Any rumors or just discussion about how to be a better Pinterest marketer and a better business owner. So if you want to join that, just click down the link below. Thank you so much for listening to the interview with Ellen and I. I hope you took away some really great tips. There was a lot in there that Ellen and I talked about even after we shut off the mic and just had a really encouraging discussion about going into new places and spaces. Alrighty. Thanks so much for listening.