← Skin Anarchy
Skin Anarchy
From Anti-Aging to Longevity Thinking with Amitay and Anastasia of Young Goose Skincare
01:10:28
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, guys. Welcome back to Skin Anarchy. I am very, very excited about this episode. We are going to be interviewing a brand today that I hold in very high regards. I absolutely love what they're doing in the longevity space in all ways. And so, without further ado, I want to introduce you guys because this is a really new category for, I think, obviously, skin health, but overall, you know, and I think it's really important to shine a light on brands that are doing it in a very ethical way, in a way that really makes sense biologically. It makes sense from the scientific standpoint, and I'm a huge believer in their ENT ethos. So without further ado, please welcome Amitay Eshel and Anastasia Kodzeva. They are the co founders of Young Goose. Welcome.
- [00:40]
B
We're so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having us. We're so excited.
- [00:44]
A
I'm so excited to have you guys. I mean, I've been a huge fan, you know, long before we connected about you coming on the show. I've been following Young Goose very closely and so very, very honored to host you both.
- [00:54]
B
Same. Same. I listen to you in the car when I'm driving. I love the variety of guests you have. So it's a big honor to be here. Thank you.
- [01:02]
C
Yeah. Sometimes it's funny when there is a podcast you list listen to and then you're on the podcast. You're used to hearing the voice talking.
- [01:08]
B
Yeah.
- [01:08]
C
And you're like, oh, my God, she's talking to me. I need to respond. It's not. It's not a different guess because I'm
- [01:13]
B
not just listening this time. I'm actually going to be talking to you. Yeah. So I love that.
- [01:18]
A
That's very kind of you. I want to. I want to dive in, you know, and I really want to start with the idea of, like, skin as a performance organ. That's not really how most people think about their face. You know, they don't really think about skin in that context. And I would love if you guys could start us off there. I'm. If you can kind of, you know, get us started. Yeah.
- [01:39]
C
So I think most people nowadays think of their skin as like a canvas. And I think. I think skincare company companies, including us, have a lot to do with it. Have a lot of. Basically have kind of indoctrinated users to think about their skin as a canvas that you need to paint, to paint over or fix. We know, we see it as an output system. It affects everything happening inside you, basically, as far as, like, what young goose is looking at anything from your stress slow to your sleep quality, how well your mitochondria are functioning, your inflammatory baseline, all of those are significantly more detrimental to how your skin looks in the end than something that you will be putting on your skin in order to kind of maybe hide what's going on inside. If you would.
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A
Yeah.
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B
When you think about it, you. Let's say you had a bad sleep, two nights of bad sleep. You don't really need a blood test to tell you that your skin will show it to you. And if you're overworked, if, if your gut is off, like actually the skin will tell you everything you need to know about your overall health. So the skin is really the, the window to your overall health. It's the output of the repair capacity, as you know, we like to say. And you just gotta listen to it.
- [03:00]
C
Yeah. So like if your gut is inflamed, your skin will show it. If your cortisol is high, you know, your skin knows.
- [03:08]
B
Yeah. And it's really not vanity to pay attention to that. It's information.
- [03:13]
A
Yeah, that's a really good point. You know, I think that people don't realize, like when your skin is looking tired or dull or just even inflamed, you know, it's not just random. There's something really. It's a story being told by your body. It's biology. And so, you know, I really like that narrative. And I think that's something that we don't really often hear about, you know, in the skincare space, because it is this so much about quick fixes, you know, like, what can I do very quickly to whatever. But I think it's a really nice way to think about it, you know, is this holistic idea. So I want to actually dive into this reduced recovery capacity component because that's really important for, I think, listeners to understand. If you guys could kind of shed some light on that.
- [03:54]
B
Yeah. So if we're going to be talking about like what is really stimulus and what is recovery when as far as your skin is concerned, stimulus is anything, anything that your skin has to respond to. And that is happening everywhere, all the time. So if you got a sun exposure, that's a stimulus. If you applied retinol, that's a stimulus. If you applied chemical pill, that's a stimulus. The flight you took, it's a stimulus. The stressful Monday, it's a stimulus. So even a hard workout at the gym can be a stimulus for your skin that it has to process. So on its own. None of it is bad because that's how your skin really adapts and strengthens. The problem is when the stimulus outpaces recovery. And it's kind of, I think, easy to understand with the gym analysis. Like if analogy, if you were going hard at the gym for seven days and you didn't take rest, that's too much and you're not going to get stronger, you're actually going to eventually break down.
- [04:55]
C
I think the skin care industry has been lured into basically interacting with something very fundamental in us human beings, which is we're trying to fix things by adding more and skincare for a very long time, the skincare industry, because the idea at the end of the day is to sell more products, is to be more profitable, kind of played hand in hand in this. So it had a hand in training people to keep adding, whether it's more Actives, whether it's more obviously professional treatments, more steps in the routine. The entire rise of K beauty, which we learn from, everybody's learning from it. It's very impressive, inspiring and great. The rise of it was really by introducing these hybrid products that people added to the routine and suddenly they had this 10, 12 step routine. Yeah. So no one's talking about the recovery side, the response by the skin side of the equation because you can't just keep depositing stress, depositing instructions into depositing basically stress into an account without making the withdrawals of repair. The way we've built Yungoos, as far as like the credo products, et cetera, it's designed around balance. It's designed maybe first to support the skin's own ability to recover and you know, not just piling more stimulus and stimulus. But as a company, we're not anti active. I think there are, unfortunately. We see for example, the hardships that our friends that have clean beauty brands that are going through right now in the implosion of that industry because it became like an anti active almost industry. So we are not anti Actives, we're pro recovery, if you would. Even the actives are. There is a recovery supporting recovery. Is there, There is this. There is a thought there is to how the two have to be in balance, if you will.
- [07:04]
A
Yes. No, that's actually an incredible insight there because you're very, very correct in that. I've struggled myself as a consumer for a long time in understanding when to use Actives, what actives to use, how they really play into this full idea of true regeneration of the skin, renewal of the skin. I think there are so many Multiple scientific disciplines that come into the picture here. I think for a long time, I mean you guys brought up such an important point here is that K Beauty has taught us a lot. I think you're right in the sense of you can combine a lot of ingredients to get a very wonderful effect. But at the same time it's also brought up, I think, a few different questions in the sense of like, well, what is dosing and how does that work and what is synergy of molecules? What is the synergy of biology and physiology and how does that really play a part? And I think that's when things really come into full length. Right. And the idea of, well, what is skin recovery? You know, at the end of the day, what does that mean?
- [07:59]
C
And as an organ, Anastasia came to me the other day with, with an interesting realization about we. Because we had someone come to us like a famous person come to us with this 12 step routine. They're assisted actually kind of with a 12 step routine. So it's like, oh yeah, we see that a lot. Right? You said something right now?
- [08:16]
B
Yeah, I mean we see that constantly. People come to us like I said with used to be nine step routine, now it's 12 step routine. I'm sure some people have 20 step routine. And they get treatments also very often, sometimes monthly treatments, professional treatments. But the reason they resort to us sometimes is like the last step is um, their skin actually looks irritated, it looks inflamed, it's, it looks tired. So they, they have the opposite effect of what they're chasing. And until they've got to talk to us, they, their thinking was that they need more. And oftentimes the. It's usually the opposite. You need less, you need to protect your recovery. And the people who genuinely get somewhere and get better results is the ones that, who like figure that part out. What is, how can you let your skin get into the recovery mode? How can you support it? And it's not, you know, doing less. It's not necessarily being uneducated or being lazy. It's actually strategic.
- [09:23]
A
Yeah, exactly. I couldn't agree more. And I think this is a really, really important referencing that we've done here in terms of now we're asking, we're not asking how do I fix this wrinkle? We're more so asking why isn't my skin recovering properly anymore? You know, and that's a huge thing. I think that's a whole different conversation to be had and I'd love to talk more about this idea of like, you know, the stimulus versus recovery. Can you break that down for us? Like what does that really mean?
- [09:52]
C
I think we're living under different. Let me start by the fact that we live in a, in a new time in the world. And the conditions that our skin experiences right now are not the conditions that our skin was designed for or gone through evolution for better and for worse. Some examples are, for example, you know, when we started talking about blue light exposure in 2020, people thought we are out of our mind as far as like how it affects the skin. Obviously chronic sleep disruption is another big talking point. Processed food, daily psychological stress that I think is not talked enough within the confines of skin health pollution, obviously. So free radicals that are not native to what our normal environment would consist of. Travel across time zone, travel itself and the time zone aspect of it. You know, our ancestors, again, the, the evolution process we went through didn't, you know, necessarily like need longevity skincare because their recovery load was manageable. The input, right, was native. Ours, the one that we go through as human beings is not native, is not manageable. So people are aging faster than they would have been on a cellular level, on the level of the DNA. I can't stand the word by the way, on the cellular level. Already we see it so much. I'm looking if anyone to give me an alternative. I'll take it. But, but people are on the most fundamental level, on the level of our epigenetics, people are aging faster. Our people are getting more and more disruption and we're starting to not only see, we're starting to feel it and we're starting to feel it earlier as human beings, skin or not. So the correction model that we've been in for the last 30 years, this paradigm doesn't apply anymore because you cannot correct or you can't correct fast enough to even keep up with the damage. You know, correction the way that we see it. And again, we've been in the industry for a long time, consulted many brands before we started Young Goose. The medical grade skincare model of the last 30 years of adding more and more stimulus is a reactive model. Longevity is, is proactive. The funny stories that I try to trademark prejuvenation and failed. But it's proactive, right? It's prejuvenating. In my opinion, the smartest consumers are the ones that are listening to this, that are making the shift right now. But in a very short amount of time, the word longevity, it's going to stand in place of the word anti aging. It's going to insinuate whatever anti aging is saying right now.
- [12:44]
B
Right, yeah. And I think also people are just waking up to the math. Like if you spend 500 on a treatment every three months and then results reset and you have to do it again over and over, then you know, where are you really going to get with it? And the opposite, like if you support your recovery and you support your skin health in a way that something actually start building over the years, you have compounding effects. That math kind of like works out better. People like don't want quick fixes anymore. They, the quick fixes, they don't compound. They reset to zero. And the longevity is about building something that gets better over time.
- [13:27]
A
Yeah, I love that Anastasia, because I think that is really the heart of longevity. And I have seen a lot of, and this is just my observer, I've seen a lot of critique about longevity right across, across categories, not just skincare across the board. And it really baffles me because especially in skincare, we're sitting in a category where for so long we were promoting the use of like 20% AHAs on young skin in your 20s. But now all of a sudden we have a problem with like barrier repair. You know, we have a problem with like truly taking your time, letting your organ heal itself over time. I mean, it doesn't make any intuitive sense, you know, and it's almost like the pushback feels a little misplaced to me when I, when I see that,
- [14:13]
C
you know, I, I don't actually, I don't, you know, I, it seems to you misplaced because your vantage point, in my opinion is a very rare vantage point. And I'll explain what I mean. To a nutritionist, McDonald's does not make sense. It doesn't. If the world was built according to the logic of a nutritionist, fast food chains will go bankrupt. But the fact of the matter is that they are not. And the reason is, is because again we're talking, that's the point that we made before. And it's a point Anastasia has been talking about for, I don't know, a decade. And she made me see the light, is that we are as human beings were very bad at looking at, that's kind of what she alluded to. Very bad at looking at micro compoundable effects. So one burger is not going to harm you for that matter. But you know, a thousand would like or a daily burger is going to harm you. You know, Morgan Spurlock, of course in his famous movie about McDonald's will show the that he ate every day for 20 days.
- [15:17]
B
Anyway, yes. Who didn't? Don't know what MTA is talking about. He started losing hair, teeth. Yeah, it was really bad.
- [15:24]
C
Yeah. So going back to longevity, all longevity is saying is that at its fund, at its fundamental level, it is the balance between three things that might skew each other, which is how do we optimize how your skin looks? Now this is the silo where, you know, results oriented skincare is living in. Right, right. Resilience and how well your skin is going to look in 10 years if, if, if nothing were to challenge it on a fundamental basis. Resilience is how prepared are you for an extreme event. It could be extreme UV event, it could be that you sunbathed in Aruba for a month. But it could also be extreme stress, whatever that may be. That is what resilience looks like. And we can measure it in your skin. And then the end point is, how are you treating your skin to kind of preserve reservoirs if you would preserve the, you know, integrity of the function for years to come? So these things could rob each other. They could live in a silo. If you, you talked about skin barrier. If we exfoliated every day forever or even for a short amount of time because we need to look good for this interview.
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A
Yeah.
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C
We're going to pay for this later on because we've damaged or we've introduced too much stimulation, which we've talked about. Same with resilience. The examples, I think, speak for themselves. Right. If I introduce something that challenges my skin and I build resilience, I'm not going to look great. You know, people who are the leaders in like cold ice plunging. Right. They don't look good. The reason they don't look young, okay. The reason is they've built resilience, but they've, they didn't, you know, there was no balance there. And longevity, if you only cared about longevity, that's kind of a little bit the implosion of clean skin care. You only care about not disrupting anything. You're not introducing any stimulation, you're not introducing much resilience. You're just kind of making sure you're not harming your skin. That's why the clean beauty industry is not doing so hot right now. So really, the combination of the three, finding a middle ground between the three, that's what longevity means.
- [17:35]
A
Yeah, it's beautifully articulated there. I completely, 100% agree with you. And I also think that this is an incredible shift that we're going through because it is a lot to wrap your head around. For the average consumer, I think that's also why we see so much pushback, because consumers, for so long, we've been fed the marketing. You know, for decades, we've been fed that. I mean, think back. You know, I, I love to, like, kind of go back to our grandmothers and to go back to that era where there was just, like, Ponds Cold cream or, you know, there was just one product, you know, and I think. And I'm like, they had the idea, right? They were using one thing, and they were doing it every night over and over again. And then they would say, 20 years later, this is why my skin looks good. Because I stuck to one thing, and I, you know, I miss that. I miss people taking pride in that. You know what I mean? Like, in that way of saying, I have a routine that I believe in and I stick to it, and my skin loves that. And there's no, it's almost like we've shamed that over the years. Right. Of this, in this mass consumerism.
- [18:33]
B
But I think, yeah, I think also speaking of our grandmothers, they, they have had less shiny objects in front of them. And a lot of the time, there was also, like, lack of resources, depending where the grandmother used to live, you know?
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A
Yeah.
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B
But I, I think there was also less pressure.
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C
There was less pressure on them to look good at 50.
- [18:53]
A
Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. No, it's really interesting. I mean, I think that. But here's the thing, though. I think when I look at the products now that are coming up, I mean, your, your line, I think it's beautiful because you guys don't have any redundancies in your products. Everything is meant to serve a purpose. Everything has a role. You are serving a role. And I think that, to me, is the most fundamental structuring or restructuring of the, of a brand or of skin care that we need to really focus on. You know, you see what I'm going like, I, I. And I feel like brands can learn from that, because for so long, I mean, how many times have you guys walked into a drugstore, right? And you see the same product from the same brand, and it's like, just different percentages. I don't need that. I don't need that much option. You know, just give me one and tell me why it works, does it work? Give me the efficacy, and then I'm done. That's it. So, you know, and, and that's kind of what, kind of. What I was kind of alluding to also was that there was a Simplification there before. And I see with longevity, we're bringing it back in a lot of ways, you know, But I would love to, you know, kind of talk about why this shift is really happening and talk about more on that compounding effect that you were talking about previously. You know, like, can we kind of elaborate on that in terms of like, what that means and like, what should consumers really understand about this?
- [20:10]
B
I think for consumers it makes sense because you're doing less, but you're getting more results. And at Yancos, you know, we really look at what skin aging really is on the cellular level. Look at the pathways and the molecules and you know, if the skin functions as a younger skin, it needs to have certain things in place. And we, we could, you know, dive into it deeper. But for, for us, the fundamentals would be NAD plus. So we, we. That's your really your cellular energy. And if you're, as you grow older, you actually have less and less of it. So if you think about you in it, about it like in terms of your bank account, actually you have less and less money in a bank account as you grow older. But the expenses that actually the the same or even higher manage our expenses better and have some savings. And there another thing that is important when you think about compounding effects and how it affects the skin would be, for example, spermidine, another molecule that naturally every skin, every cell has it. And as we grow older, we have less and less. So again, we can think about it in terms of less money in the bank. But in this case, it's. It's not the currency. It's not what you pay for repair with. It's actually it turns on autophagy, your cellular cleanup. And then what you can also think about is like for your house, you need the plumbing and you need the electricity, you know, for a good house. So those two are kind of essentials. And we are really, you can see
- [21:54]
C
Anastasia, by the way, is in repair mode right now in the house.
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B
So yes, we are renovating.
- [22:02]
C
I want to give the opposite example because I think, you know, these are the examples that we live in. That's the world that we live in. We see. Obviously, we are very glad that there is a lot of discussion around mitochondria right now. Obviously we saw Lancome rolling out a mitophagy ingredient in every one of their, which is part of autophagy. It's, it's a sub, subcategory. So Anastasia mentioned spermidine because it covers more bases. But obviously there are other Molecules that, that cover one of the bases. Right. That still I would consider it within longevity. But that is kind of good compounding. Obviously a lot of people right now are talking about collagen banking. I would argue elastin banking is what, where you should go. But yeah, better investment strategy. Let's talk about bad compounding again. We talked about like adding more ingredients, adding more treatments. And we can think of aging as the, as the accumulation of unrepaired damage. Why is that? It's because every time we do not resolve an issue in the skin, it contributes to more stress across, across your skin. So every time there is damage that's not repaired. Well, every time there is, you know, a critical, like again, like we can talk about UV exposure, we can talk about the sun because it's obviously something that we all share. But every time there is, you know, sun exposure and there DNA damage and stuff like that, those cells then they don't repair as well. And other things, whether it's wrinkles, whether it's laxity, whether it's hyperpigmentation, whether it is irritation, whatever that may be, you know, redness, rosacea, whatever that may be, are now more prominent. What do we want to do as human beings? We want to use another ingredient, we want to use another treatment. We want to go and do RF microneedling or a laser or whatever that is to go ahead and like tackle that thing that bothers us. The problem is again we're in a loop where we're compounding more simulation and more damage which our skin, the reason our skin got to where it was is that it could not deal with the amount of stimulation and damage that it had before.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And what we're getting to, even if we've received some temporary effects, which granted there might be long term, we are creating where we're creating a situation where our skin is hyper aging in the background. So you know, your, your micro, like not micro needling but like your radio frequency treatment might introduce some, you know, inflammation that would make you look better in the short term because your skin is now more taut because underneath it's inflamed. But you know, if your skin is now going to create scar tissue underneath because, or your, your tissue is going to create scar tissue because it, it cannot deal with that stimulation, it cannot repair. Well, well guess what? Later on that tissue moves less well, it's going to create more wrinkles, more laxity. You're gonna be harder to operate on if you're gonna wanna do surgery.
- [24:48]
B
But also for people that do want to, like, I mean, I was just leading up to get a plastic surgery or do some of the treatments, experiment, any, any of those invasive procedures, as we said in the beginning of the podcast, is a stimulus. Right? So banking, like save having savings account of, of the recovery molecules, molecules that can support recovery, stimulate recovery, is the same smart way, like it's a balance. Okay. If you want to try something invasive, make sure you have your recovery in place. You can recover from it.
- [25:22]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think this is an interesting, interesting topic because I've seen it approached in multiple ways. And I mean, my two cents, I just want to add also, what I've noticed is that we're not talking also about the idea that your body is in constant, like movement, right? So cells are constantly working on regenerating things. You know, they're constantly working on reducing and, you know, just working with the molecules to make sure they're optimized for use inside of the cell. Now, one of the biggest, I think, arguments, and I don't see a lot of nad, you know, brands that are using NAD make this is that it's not about just like mc, as you brilliantly pointed out, it's not about just repleting, it's also about providing a feedback to your cells. Because when, when they decline physiologically, what that means is that they are losing the ability to keep up with damage. But that also means that their feedback loops are now slowed down. So that feedback signaling is something that we need to understand. And we need to understand what is the balance between giving it the signal and the right amount so that it allows for the feedback loops to stay operational, but then also optimizes them to back to that state that we want them. Right? Because that's what longevity is. You're kind of rewinding the clock to an optimized functional state. And so I think that's where it becomes very interesting to me when I look at it as a scientist, because I'm like, there's a lot of potential here when you start to understand physiological feedback loops, you know. And so I think a lot of the times the marketing focuses on, yeah, we want to replete, you're right, we want to replete, but at the same time, we want to give your body what it normally has so that it can continue doing what it does beautifully by itself, you know. And so I think that's where, I mean, I get very excited about longevity. I won't lie. I get very excited about the category because I think it has immense potential. Not only from like, obviously the use of, of, you know, topical products and whatnot, but also from what it's feeding to research. I mean, as scientists, we're learning from this space, you know, constantly. Like, I know I have many colleagues in the lab, in wet lab. They have nothing to do with skincare. They have nothing to do with any of these categories. Longevity is kind of flourishing in. But what they do say is, I like what that, you know, what that brand did. I like what they're spotlighting. I'm going to go and look into that in my own research, you know. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing to watch, you know.
- [27:38]
C
Yeah, you know that. And I think, you know, everything that you're saying is, is very, you know, is very. Again, there is cross pollination. I think most people don't know. So we're, as a brand, what we're targeting is something called the 12 hallmarks of aging, which are 12 categories on how you're basically the 12 categories as far as, like how our skin deteriorates, ages, et cetera. Everything we talked about until now, and I mean most people even in the longevity field don't know, is that they were developed out of the hallmarks of cancer. So I think, and obviously there are, you know, how many people that are applying like an NAD, Spermidine face serum or exosome serum, right, whatever that may be, are thinking of the fact that leaps in cancer research and definitions of how we, you know, categorize cancer expression is kind of the reason that we now have the longevity field and everything around that. I think, again, there is crazy cross pollination there, even geriatrics, neurodegeneration, whatever that is, all of those things are feeding back to this compendium of knowledge which then a company like Yungus could say, hey, we see this incredible, you know, molecule, for that matter. Mechanistically, it makes sense that it's going to do something in skin. Hey, let's take a look at it. And we're doing now a long project where there is a peptide that literally does not have yet a name, doesn't have a name yet with the fda. So it's very difficult to communicate as far as, you know, regulation. But we're looking at it as something that maybe is going to come out to market in like five years. Right.
- [29:24]
A
That's interesting. That's really interesting. And I want to, I want to take this time to kind of dive into one of your hero products, the Vampire Exit Zones. Very bold name. I want to learn more about why you named it the way you did. And let's dive in.
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C
So basically it's the vampire facial or PRP facials, I think changed the conversation around regenerative aesthetics. Basically, it showed consumers that platelet derived signaling has powerful repair instructions. Basically, it kind of set the stage for that. But I think the first problem is accessibility. First of all, it's invasive, it's expensive, it requires a clinic. So there are gaps between the times that you're going to do that and the results because of, because it's autologous, because it's your own stuff. They vary. You need to. The better you are, which you wouldn't have maybe chose the treatment if you didn't feel you need it. Right. The better the results would be and vice versa. Okay, so it's the chicken and the egg there. So basically we came to the R and D table, proverbial table, and asked, you know, what if we could capture, we could encapsulate, we can capture that same regenerative signaling, the, you know, the exosomes that carry those distilled repair instructions, which is, by the way, what they are doing also now with facial. So now the advancement in PRP facials is doing what we're doing as well, just in a clinic setting and deliver them topically but consistently.
- [30:56]
B
That's what we.
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C
At home. That's what we're doing. Right? That's what we're doing. So that's what, you know, vampire exosomes is. It's platelet derived. Platelet derived. Let's say regeneration without a needle.
- [31:06]
A
It's interesting because this, you know, the whole idea of regenerative signaling is very interesting to me. Let's dive into this in terms of, you know, the real nitty gritty. Amiti, I would love for you to go through this, you know, in terms of you've used 3 trillion PRP derivedosomes. Why does that matter? Why does that number matter? And walk us through the details of the product.
- [31:26]
C
Nasty. I think she does it beautifully.
- [31:28]
A
So, okay, let's do it.
- [31:30]
B
Either one of us could do it. But as you know, in your audience, I think already also knows by now, but for new listeners, I will say exosomes are tiny messengers. They're packets that, you know, carry the message and the cells use them to communicate. When your body heals, heals a wound, it uses exosome to coordinate this process of healing. And they carry signals that tell cells to produce collagen, reduce inflammation, renew tissue. So what we've done, why does this matter? So we took over 3 trillion platelet derived exosomes into a single product and every batch is tested. For those there is a verified dose. So when you apply your product, you, you're flooding your skin cells with the repair signals, telling your cells, okay, it's time to rebuild, it's time to lower the inflammation. All of the signals we talked about that are crucial for repair processes. And the key here also is that the exosomes are not doers. They're their message. So it's your cells, your own cells that are doing the work. And that's why I think it's so powerful. You know, you work with your biology.
- [32:41]
A
It's not the exosomes that are doing it. They're allowing for the signaling to happen. I mean, that's, I think that really does get lost in translation. I've seen that repeatedly that people don't seem to grasp that component. And you know, also more importantly, understanding cell signaling. I would say I know you don't like cell biology, but really we have to signal ourselves. At the end of the day, I would love to talk more about, you know, in terms of like when you guys, and I know you've, you've spoken about this also. What was some of the things you had to do research on before you created the product? What were some of the, the due diligence that you did on your part to make sure you were delivering the best.
- [33:20]
C
I'll answer the question. I just want to give you props. You know, what you said right now before about basically like allowing the body to do its own function, it's so. It sounds to me, by the way, I love cell biology. I just don't like the word. Yeah. At this level, I think, you know, it's like, it's. I, I'm haunted by this word. I hear, hear it 700 times a day. But anyway, I, I just want to give you an idea that is why we started a podcast like we said, you know, so I have a podcast called Biohacking Beauty. We basically told ourselves, hey, who's going to listen to this podcast? You know, in the beginning it's like it's going to be our customers. They already bought the product. They're going to hear that. We, we're, they're going to understand we have a podcast, they're going to listen to it. We that there isn't an ingredient that we can put in skincare that is going to correct poor sleep habits or poor habits in general, by the way. We need to. There is an invisible ingredient that's going to make our Skincare work better. And that's how our, you know, patient compliance, basically. So how our customers are going to behave. Let's build a communication platform to tell them how we would like them to behave. Hey, you are going to get a few multiples of better skin regeneration. If you're going to shut your eyes between 10pm to midnight, that's your golden hour, 10 to 2 in the morning. You do that, you get better skin. You don't eat simple sugar, you get better skin. Right. So that's to your point, all we can do is 2/3. The other third, which I would argue is even more than a third, we need people to do on their own, unfortunately, fortunately, differently, however you want to call that.
- [35:00]
B
Yeah, but also to get back to your question of like, with vampire exosomes in particular, what I think what innovation we are bringing to the exosome space, it's also respecting that part of like, okay, exosomes are not doers. Your cells are. So, okay, exosomes will tell your cells, okay, we need to get to work. We have repair to do. And looking at like, what's the best environment for cells to do that, to act on it. What do they need? So they need fuel, they need NAD plus with. In the case of vampire exomes, we also have a key ingredient. They're called Rejuvenate D. And that helps your skin cells to utilize their own NAD to fuel, you know, the work that cells need to do. And, and we talked, I think a little bit about it on this podcast. And I'm sure your listeners know that NAD declines significantly with age. So pairing it with exosome signaling, that really changes how the product works. And that's why, I mean, we get, since we launched the product last year, it's like outperformed everything we've done. We love all of our products equally. They're all our babies. But this baby is a top performer.
- [36:14]
C
It's reading the New York Times at a year and a half in bed.
- [36:16]
B
Yeah. Speaking of more like a house renovation analogies, like if you, if your skin cells are a construction crew, then exosomes is the blueprint. The NAD is what helps them do the job.
- [36:30]
C
It's the coffee.
- [36:32]
B
It's the coffee.
- [36:33]
A
Yeah, I like that.
- [36:35]
B
Is that whoever's renovating, in case, if you don't have any D plus, even though there is a blueprint, they're not going to do anything. And the opposite is true too. Like NAD without exosomes, okay, it will give them energy to go about them, their functions. But if you have the best, best blueprint, you know, know exactly what to do, that's also going to be better. I hope that makes sense.
- [36:59]
C
Yes, that was great.
- [37:00]
B
It all works together.
- [37:02]
C
I want to make sure I cover a few things that came to mind just so I don't, that I don't forget them. The first thing you asked, like what, what kind of special consideration we had to address within this specific product. So first is testing. Unfortunately, first of all, we, you, you can, you can't really own a patent within this field. What I'm going to say right now wasn't to make us the only company to fill in the blank. It was to introduce more integrity into this field, which is like a Swiss cheese as far as holes. Okay. It's really insincere. So basically right now there is no onus, there is no, there is no scrutiny that I need to go through after I make claims about my exosomes. So I can say my exosomes are supercharged with. What did we say before the podcast started? With good thoughts and prayers. And I don't need to prove any of that. Right. And obviously people claim things about plant exosomes or different types of exosomes as far as, you know, their capabilities. Very little needs to, to needs to be proven. So the first thing about testing is we wanted to have, you know, we wanted to have a test that is batch oriented, which means it correlates with the product that you or, or a, a consumer bought and they can see that we validated the amount of exosomes, what's inside, etc. So exosomes are not all the same. Exosomes can be bad, by the way. We need to test and make sure what's inside of them. It's just, it's just the envelope.
- [38:42]
B
Yeah, it's just a message.
- [38:44]
C
Exactly.
- [38:44]
B
Yeah. Sell that.
- [38:47]
C
Yeah.
- [38:47]
B
For that matter. Yeah.
- [38:48]
C
Right. So we have a test that shows, you know, per batch what's inside the exosome and shows that it's at a very high standard. Basically that's number one. It holds us to a higher standard and we hope other companies follow suit. That's what I kind of tried to allude to in the beginning. It wasn't to make us like a unique product. It was, was to hope that we would lead the industry towards that direction. Because no other company does it currently. I don't think so, by the way. Of course, I don't know all the companies on the globe, but from what I know, no other company publishes data about their exosomes the second thing we needed to do before we chose platelet derived exosomes, we needed to understand what exosomes would be statistically the most potent. Okay. So all, every exosome that's going to be, that's going to be harvested is going to be slightly different, but statistically, which ones are going to create the most amount of regeneration. So most times that you hear about exosomes, even Ekta, what you said when you described the exosome, you mentioned many, many things that the exosomes have. But what we care about the most are something called microrna, not rna, not MRNA micrornas. And the reason that we care about micrornas the most is that micrornas are like a very unique type of police, if you would, that makes sure cells behave at an optimal fashion at the time of, at the time of interaction, right? It's not, not forever, but at the time of interaction. In other words, you have micrornas within each exosomes that might say, hey, have really good antioxidant deficiency defense, hey, make really good collagen, hey, lower inflammation, hey, go after senescent zombie like bad old cells. Right? And statistically the best types of micrornas, the most amount of them, the best quality, are in platelets. Why? It's because platelets, as Anastasia said, are those things that are first responders. When we have a paper cut, when we have is something that needs to be healed in the skin. So on average they would have the most amount of messages that relate to skin health and healing and performance and everything that's got to do with that. So the type we had to do, we had to do all the testing and then exactly like Anastasia said, 99% of ingredients that someone's going to be trying to use with exosomes are actually going to harm the exosomes. So when they're going to live together in the bottle, they're going to damage the exosomes.
- [41:32]
B
Yes.
- [41:32]
C
Some things that people would know are like peptides, vitamin C, acids, like really most of the actives that you could think of, even nm, even a lot of the NAD precursors that we use with other products cannot be combined with exosomes like nmn, nr, whatever. So these are kind of the three pillars that we, that we needed to figure out. And if exosomes work topically, they're going to dry out the skin. They're not going to dry out the skin, your skin is going to be drier. Part of their effect, that turnover, etc. You're going to Feel like your skin is drier. So we needed to go through all the ingredients that actually can be used or, you know, sift through ingredients and what can be used to find out how we can support skin barrier within. Within that. That limited amount of ingredients that we can use. So supporting. Supporting it with nad supporting skin barriers so we don't dry the skin out and ramping up significantly the amount of exosomes that we have there.
- [42:33]
A
That's very. I mean, I, I love that you went through that. And I, I think it's interesting because you're pointing out, I mean, you've definitely, you've done your very best to do your due diligence, but I also, you've pointed out a very important topic here every day. And I think that's the idea that there's a lot that needs to be understood, you know, about how to use exosomes and topicals. It's. And I think that's what's differentiating right now. When I look at the space, I've interviewed a lot of brands that are utilizing E. But one thing that I think is a huge differentiating factor is exactly what you said, which is there's a lot that you cannot combine in a formulation. There's a lot that needs to be understood about their bioactivity and what elicits the actual bioactivity and what hinders it. And I think a lot of times we fall into the trap of thinking, okay, you know, if it's. If we're claiming that they're there, then they're there. You know, people will talk about electron microscopy and they'll talk about, well, you can. You see them under microscopy and all that. But it's like, I, I beg to differ because I think seeing them is one thing, but then, you know, watching their activity is another thing. And so those kind of topics is just simply not being addressed right now on the manufacturing side, right. The labs that are creating them. And this is kind of a message if anyone's listening on the lab site, right? Like the academia side, I think it's worth creating these tests that are accessible to companies, because it's not that companies don't want to do their due diligence, it's just that it's very expensive. If you go out there and you want to do your own Eliza, you want to do your own bioactivity testing on these products batch by batch, you want to make sure that every batch is the same. Right? That kind of stuff, that's millions and millions.
- [44:10]
C
Yeah, we got quoted. We got Quoted a million dollar retainer.
- [44:14]
B
Yeah, there you go. Like you said, I wish it was more accessible, but then I think, and I hope that brands will find a way to do it. But for. We held off launching our product, you know, until we were able, we were in a position to do that because we wanted consumers to, to have as much visibility to what they're getting because it is on a, on a price side. So, you know, it comes with extra, like Spider man said, certifications and you know, receipts.
- [44:47]
A
No, it's absolutely, I agree. But I mean I really applaud you guys for, for going that extra mile. I think that's wonderful and I think it's really, definitely setting a standard in the industry and I, and I love that you're doing that, you know, because anyone who wants to do exosomes, they're now going to think, you know, like there's a brand out there and that's, they're going to challenge me on how much science thought I've put into this, you know, and if, if I'm just selling a marketing claim or if I'm actually able to speak on testing and all of those things. So that's, it's a wonderful thing. I want to move on. There's a beautiful product in your line of the Blue Peptide spray. Let's dive into this. And what really was the, the driver behind you wanting to create a product like this?
- [45:24]
B
For sure, the blue pipe is spray. When we were thinking about this product, we really wanted to be part of everyone day and life. And like with Exosome product, it's a ritual, right? You have to wait, you have to really think about what can I mix it with, what can I layer? Like it's a, it's a ritual and it's, it's. Something is involved here. When you apply it with the Blue Peptide spray, we want it to be like more like easier. Right. And really what it is, it's a mitochondria optimizer in the mist. So the hero ingredient is methylene bloom. It improves the mitochondrial efficiency, reduces oxidation, negative stress. We combine it with the energy support so energy plus complex that we. Have you, have you mentioned copper peptide?
- [46:11]
C
So proprietary by the way.
- [46:13]
B
Yeah, proprietary to us. Put a lot of thought and effort into it. Since bringing NAD plus precursors into skincare, we've changed it a lot as more science comes to light and more molecules are accessible. Anyway, so you do have like in this map like everything that your mitochondria would thrive with and, and you could optimize its Function, it's in the spray. So I stopped at the copper peptide. So we have copper peptides there for collagen signaling and superoxide dismutase known as SOD to neutralize free radicals. And it's such a fun product. As, as you, as I mentioned, it's light, it's fast, you can put it over makeup. I envision people really taking it with them throughout the day. As, as a boost because I think as, as, as you mentioned in the beginning. Right. We, the conditions changed so much. He talked about travel, he talked about, you know, a blue, blue light exposure. There's so many, there's pollution. There is so much that's like constantly bombarding our skin. And you have this spray that you can just use every time your skin needs a little pick me up, it needs a little bottle most it's there for you.
- [47:23]
C
I think most. If you look at most hydration products, I think for. First of all, we would love it if we were confident to introduce products that are used in ways that are not traditional. But 99.999% of the time it's not a good idea. You don't, you don't want to introduce a product someone needs to use at 11:45, you know, just before noon when the sun is at a certain angle and you know, and a full moon is out. Yeah, but the reason you don't want to do it is because you want to kind of attach to what people are doing already. It's even, it's difficult to make yourself remove your makeup at night, let alone, you know, create a multi layered routine. So. But sometimes there are opportunities like that. I think most hydration products are since they sit on the surface, since they work to kind of just prevent transepidermal water loss to that matter better. They are very, it's very rigid as far how to use them. How can you use them over makeup? Can you not. This is a product that really works on the, we found another level on the mitochondrial level.
- [48:30]
A
Okay, I like that.
- [48:32]
C
On the level of, of what creates energy in our skin, we mentioned nad that's a part of it. But it, it, it, you could really think of it as helping your skin cells make more energy so they can repair themselves. That's the point. And that is why intuitively it's so easy to reach for it. Every time, you know, you're in subpar conditions, you're walking down the street, there's pollution, you are in an airplane, you are in front of your computer and you have a lot of blue Light. So all of those things, it's very easy to reach for it and just use it throughout the day. And we're very proud of this versatility and its ability to help.
- [49:11]
A
I love it. I have such a pet peeve against sprays. And I've said, I think I've said this before, but I mean, I. For anyone out there that loves sprays, my apologies, but I can't use them like those, the mists that everybody's coming out with, because when I use them, I'm a grease ball. At the end of the day, I look like I'm a, you know, disco ball. And so I've always loved products that don't, like, add that extra heaviness, you know. And so you have, obviously, I mean, it's, it's brilliant thinking on the side of like the actual signaling and what my skin is getting, but also just the consistency of it, right? Like the, the feel, the user experience. Well, I want to, I want to move on because you guys, you know, you're doing something very unique. And this is something I have not been able to talk about on the podcast and I really want to dive in is this idea of protocol thinking. When I, you know, when I was introduced to this, I think I made a post on LinkedIn a while ago about thinking in the site, like the, in the sense of protocols rather than like individual products. And a lot of people gave me feedback, but I was like, well, why aren't we talking about it? So I want to dive in the ladr. The, you know, what is that? And then let's dive into what protocol thinking actually means in the context of skin health.
- [50:18]
B
Yeah, ladr, it's our light activated DNA repair serum. And the key ingredient there is actually DNA repair photosomes. So those are the enzymes that are literally activated by white best by red light. And when light hits them, it triggers DNA repair at the cellular level and DNA level, yeah, it was some mitochondrial energy. And you know, we've again, we've supported the, the job of DNA repair enzymes here. Everything that the cells and those enzymes will need. So there you have the NAD plus APEX that we talked about here. So we're going to boost NAD plus there. It stimulates collagen production, reduces inflammation. We've also included spermidine that I mentioned earlier to activate autophagy. So your cell's cleanup process. Plus it's one of the products that has ergothioneine now lineup. So to protect your mitochondria from oxidative stress and the protoc Is that, you know, for those so many, I'm sure of your listeners already have red light therapy.
- [51:19]
C
Yeah.
- [51:19]
B
And if you are not supporting the red light therapy alone, you can only get that far. And we can talk a lot about the fact that there is also like as part of red light therapy there will be oxidative stress which is kind of a eustress you need to like signal that repair. But you know, there is certain, a certain kind of ceiling on results you can get with the red light therapy therapy alone. So if you support it like with this product, with lot of product, you, you get much faster results. So you can do shorter red light exposure like 10 to 15 minutes instead of like doing it for 40 minutes. Yeah. And you don't have to do it every day. You can do it just three times a week. So I think a lot of people in longevity space and like self optimizing, some people call it biohacking space. It's all about how can I do less. And that's also kind of of what we're here for, doing less and getting more results. So if you already have red light therapy, you know this product is best used with it because if you use it without light, you kind of leave half of the results on the table. But the good news that if you don't have red light therapy, you can also apply this product and expose to the nature natural light best by sunrise and sunset. That has the red wavelengths. Yeah, that's a little bit about this product and the results that people are seeing. They, they, they report to us that of people introduce it obviously after they already had red light therapy. So they already saw what red light therapy can do along and then when they saw that, wow, like since introducing it, I can actually see results faster. That's very rewarding.
- [52:56]
C
Yeah. And I think, you know, this is something that I can't say, oh, this is where it got introduced that the idea of compounding or the idea of protocol thinking was it, you know, know looking at how drugs interact, you know, did pharma look at it first? Is it integrative practitioners? Integrative medicine practitioners? I don't know. But, but you know, protocol thinking can go way beyond skincare. You know, we did mention sleep, we didn't mention night. We mentioned all of those things. But it could be also the supplements you're taking. It could be, you know, if your skincare doesn't work anymore, especially like peptide skin care or skin care that has a lot of again a lot of calls for repair there. It's not that the actives are not there anymore. Sometimes they are in the case of, in some, some antioxidants, but for the most part the actives are there. Your skin is just like depleted. So you're, you know, it could be, it could be how you support your mitochondria, how you support energy, how you support, you know, your magnesium levels are extremely important for skincare to work, for example, or zinc, for example. We know, just as a side note, we know know high levels of zinc are going to make your Botox last longer as an example. Right. Like there is many things that work in synergy and we can think of them as protocol thinking.
- [54:15]
B
Yeah, I mean for us also protocol thinking, like I mentioned, is giving this information to our users and most of the time it's in the form of podcasts because there we have long term format. So we record like, okay, sleep optimization as a skincare tool tool. And then you'll have a protocol of like everything you can do to improve your sleep and the way it affects skin in particular. Or we did one for barrier repairing. All the steps you can do or you know, when it comes to sun protection or mitigating pigmentation, there's like protocols, max, like starting, you know, going diving deep about. We have patients and everything. Yeah.
- [54:54]
C
I think we have facial exercises to do in front of a red light panel. I think even that. So there, there are many layers to that.
- [55:01]
B
Yeah, so, so that's also like the protocol thinking. It's not only in like the fact that, yes, if you look at, let's say our products, they're kind of a protocol and you can see how just the line is a protocol in itself, but it's, it's beyond that. We, you know, we give you more tools beyond products. And yeah, we try to.
- [55:23]
A
It's the logic. It's the logic. You're building a logic out. And I think that's why, I think that's what draws me to this. Right. And I mean when I first, I think you were right when you, I think pharma came up with this, which it had to because when you look at drugs, there, there's always a protocol. There's not a single, you know, doctor in the world that would say otherwise because drugs, I mean, think about it. We look at everything with drugs, right? We look at what else are you taking, when are you taking it in what dose do we microdose, do we, you know, everything is possible that can possibly be considered. We consider it lifestyle changes, all of it. So this is a topic that I think, yeah, if there's anything we want to adopt from the drug development world, it should be protocol thinking because that is mimicking the human body. And that's why I just, I mean, I love that you guys are doing that and I love that you've incorporated that into your entire, the DNA of the brand. Because this actually reframed skincare. It, it optimizes skincare. And I, and I feel like I hope in the next 10 years, right, people are going to be asking that question of, well, what's best for me during this time, this phase of life, you know what I mean? Like, like for women, for example, you know, Anastasia, you know, perimenopause, menopause, we go through so many changes, our skin changes. We. I would love to see that conversation one day when we're going to our doctors, going to our estheticians and saying, give me the protocol I need for this decade of my life.
- [56:49]
B
You know, and early in like I think 2020, I remember I wrote a post on social media about, about syncing your skincare with your cycle, which at the time was pretty revolutionary as well, because yeah, it's not just the, the decades. Right, which is very true. And a lot of our clients are, you know, perimenopause, menopause. But even when you do have a cycle, you, you have like monthly fluctuation of hormones, you know that you have your skin changes and how can you adapt to it and, and, and you know, not have everything that comes with it like hormonal acne or whatnot. There are ways to look at how it affects skin.
- [57:32]
C
By the way, by the way, you want to talk about, again, a paradigm shift of, you know, a big subset of people is obviously GLP1s and how that weight loss, you know, injections in general and how they will affect skincare. I mean, shout out to image. Very, very cool company, very cool skincare company that decided they're making a product designated for people who are, who are going through with GLP1s. Do I think it's needed? Probably not because you are, you are still an individual past that you're not now a category of people as a whole. But I think it's a really cool idea that they went that way. Right.
- [58:11]
B
Like, yeah, looking at, as actor was saying there, there are certain things that, you know, affect your skin from the different levels, be it hormonally, be it like, you know, what you do to your skin yourself through peptide and just really serving.
- [58:26]
C
Yeah, but, but spoiler alert. We're actually so this is a, this is a part of Yungoos that is, that is that we. We're building right now under the surface. So very soon we're going to launch an AI kind of camera ability to kind of decipher what's going on on a pretty deep level, but level that that AI allows us now. And what we're going to launch through our partners in clinics, because we have 140 clinics in the states that offer young goose. And you know, if someone goes to the website, search which one's closest to them. We're going to have a dry blood spot test that tests how your cells create different ingredients for your skin. It's called metabol. Metabolomic. So not metabolic, but metabolomic testing. And we'd be able to, of course, you know, we're a skincare company. We're, you know, your physician is going to be able to recommend products, obviously do what, what's good for your skin.
- [59:18]
B
You can actually track the metabolites, you know, you can read, retest, right. So you can actually now, with testing, track your skin care products like you apply them and you see what's actually changing in your body, what that's brilliant, actually go up, etc. So that's, that's something we've been working on for a really long time. We were looking to launch it like two years ago. It has to be perfect.
- [59:43]
C
It has to be, has to be perfect. And our hope is that, you know, practitioners are going to be empowered also to recommend things past skincare again, like supplementation, lifestyle habit, things like that. Because as we said, everything works together. At the end of the day, if you only use skincare to, you know, to interact with those deficiencies, are you going to get better results? Yes, but we want to obviously create better humans, you know, that function better, that have better cellular function as a whole.
- [60:09]
B
So as much of time and effort we put into, like educating our consumers, we also educate our wholesale part. We have a program that we are almost done creating that will support also this rollout. So they actually are much more versed in that longevity space. And how can they support their patients to get better results and to work not just with our products, but yeah, in general, be like kind of longevity skin health certified and have that background because they weren't taught that at schools and not everybody has the time to sift through the research. So having the place where they can
- [60:50]
A
do that, that's amazing. I'm really excited to hear that. That's actually very, very brilliant because, I mean, exactly to your last point, there's nowhere to learn this stuff. And I mean, you can go through. I mean, I've gone through what, like 30 years of my life in medical training, and I can tell you honestly, I learned more in a month of life than I learned in school. So we don't learn any of this stuff, you know, and it's really, really difficult to, I think, understand longevity for a lot of physicians. I've seen a lot of physicians try to, you know, and this into my next question for you guys is like, this idea of, like, what really is biohacking? What are we optimizing? Like, a lot of physicians are having a hard time wrapping their heads around it, especially in the skin health space. But I think you're right in the sense of, like, let's give them a framework, you know, and providing them the data. I think is going to be really, really intuitive on their end to be like, oh, okay, this is what it means. This is how I can incorporate this into my patient care, into my actual education that I do with patients. That's huge. So really hats off to you guys for thinking ahead like that. That's amazing. You know, and so, I mean, my next question, though, I want to introduce my next question, which is really, what is that balance between, like, biohacking and maybe over optimizing? I mean, I would love your, your, you know, words of wisdom on that topic because we hear biohacking a lot these days, but I think it's being misused also, you know, in some ways.
- [62:10]
C
First of all, I think intuitively that's a very, I mean, the problem that we have. Well, Anastasia and I love the biohacking community. It is our home, and we are very grateful to this community to this day. Every time we go to a biohacking conference, that's, you know, the best thing that, that we have going on this year. That year and this year too, however, the problem we have with the biohacking community, the word is that it is very aggro. It's very forceful, and I think, you know, it is. It. It's running the risk everywhere, but it's. But specifically in skin care, turning it to another form again, of stress, of just like pushing further than physical limits. So, I mean, we do.
- [62:55]
B
We do think about it constantly, talk about it constantly. The biohacking world can be obsessive, and, you know, people are tracking everything. They're. They're so busy worrying about optimizing everything, and it can be really scary to. To mess up or forget the step and and you know it. So all of it could result into like more stress, bad stress. And our philosophy when we're, when we're calling ourselves a biohacking skincare, it's actually like to remove the extra steps and remove the overthinking and, and like to simplify, you know that's, don't add more products. Make the ones you use work harder. And that's why we, we kind of have, have this framework of addressing all 12 hallmarks of aging is you know, if you, if you choose your protocol, which in our case protocol does not have to be 12 products, it could be easily like you know, three to four products but they will address all of those needs and stack and compound everything you need long term. So that's really I think how we think about it.
- [64:01]
C
Yeah, I think 12 step routine is possible just to, just to. For everyone who is into their step 12 step routine. Routine if you're that person like Anastasia is not saying about the amount of products that she uses but if you're a pro, a person like Anastasia that have seemingly endless amount of output of the amount of energy that she can dedicate in every little thing. You know she's a co CEO of a company, mother creator, writes everything, oversees everything, does a 12 step routine, does her facial exercises in front of red light in the evening. Ta ta ta ta. Guess who's not like that. That's this guy.
- [64:39]
A
Yeah.
- [64:40]
C
Pointing at himself for those who, who are listening.
- [64:43]
A
But that's why she looks amazing though. I mean I agree she's radiant.
- [64:47]
C
I agree, I agree. But the thing is this, if you are that person, if you can match this level.
- [64:53]
B
Yeah.
- [64:53]
C
With you know, being very mindful and everything else. We talked about you know, a little bit about diet, other biohacks like red light, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, therapy, HIIT training, optimized nutrition, blah blah blah. And you want to push your skin further and you have the ability to be, to be very mindful with every product, see how you react to every product, build carefully and stack things, do it, go for it. But most people, my opinion is that of course it's not only my opinion but my experience is that it is true that we have decision and attention fatigue and, and it is our responsibility as a brand to say we don't want to be the entire your entire decision journey during the day or your entire intention journey during the day because again we're shooting ourselves in the foot. We want to both I call it. We have two budgets. We have financial budget and we have attention budget we want to encroach on your budget to a degree which you are comfortable in. So for me, for example, it's about three, four products maximum. I'll do that and I'll have enough, enough output available, enough bandwidth available. Do hyperbaric oxygen therapy or do something else that's very good for my health. Never mind. I don't want to brag with the wellness things but that we do. But we do wellness things as well and they're important as well. And make sure my diet's on point and I'm not being lured that mashed potatoes are not calling me to, for forcefully. Right.
- [66:21]
B
I mean it's important to realize that the nervous system doesn't, doesn't care if, if, if what's in your skincare products, what's in your formula, if the whole ritual gives you anxiety and yeah. You're just like mouse trap.
- [66:36]
A
Yeah, the hamster wheel.
- [66:37]
B
Hamster wheel, hamster wheel.
- [66:42]
C
We saw it with the nutrition. We saw it with nutrition.
- [66:46]
B
Yeah.
- [66:47]
C
I mean, yeah.
- [66:48]
B
Just really want that the skincare ritual with us would feel like doing less and getting more as a result. And that's the whole point.
- [66:56]
C
Yeah. I remember we, when we. Again when we. Now everything is diverging but when we started again our. We had a consultancy, the biohacking Space before starting Young Goose and we were involved in a lot of industries that are now that now seem separate like keto ketogenic diet for example. That's part of you know, 2015 that those were the same people. There were, they weren't different. It was like keto peptides biohacking. It's the same people. Right. So I remember talking to people as far as nutrition and the way they talked about the amount of, you know, attention they get. They gave their nutrition every day testing whatever 700 monitors on them and, and, and you know, they read all the latest articles and stuff like that and you were like wow, I am not you, but thank you for paving the path. I'll pick and choose whatever I can do. Right.
- [67:48]
B
Yeah.
- [67:48]
C
So. And, but we do know people that, that, that, that have developed a, you know, a very stressful relationship with, with healthy eating with. And it became unhealthy for them to obsess about healthy eating. And in skincare we, we cannot do that in skincare. The minute we are starting to introduce negative emotional outputs inputs. I'm sorry into the in, into people's psyche again as a brand we're going to get, we're going to give you less results. So it's a Very fine line. If we are interested in having a relationship with our customers for, you know, for 10 years, for 20 years, for 30 years, which is what longevity Skincare is supposed to be doing.
- [68:29]
A
Yes, absolutely. No, Very well said. And I, I, you know, I've learned so much in this conversation. Honestly, you guys, I can't thank you enough. I mean, this is, this is the exact kind of, I think, well, thinking that we need to propagate in this industry because there need to be more intelligent questions asked, right at the end of the day, like, we can't keep going, as you said, the hamster wheel. We got to get off that hamster wheel and we have to make a new wheel. Like, let's get off. And so, I mean, things like, you know, youthful skin is a behavior that's a huge takeaway from a conversation like this, you know, and then the whole conversation around recovery capacity and understanding what, you know, sequencing of, you know, anything is right, and the biology and the logic and physiological logic of, of these kind of products, that is something that it's not going to happen overnight. But I really feel like once people start using products like this in a meaningful way, you will see results that are just incomparable to anything else, you know, And I think I would tell you had said this at one point in the conversation you said about the whole, you know, instant or I know, I think Anastasia, you said that. So about the instant gratification thing, where it's like, even if you go to get something done, you're going to have damage down the road, you know, and that's what I think consumers, consumers have to start understanding is that you can get whatever you want done, but there is going to be an aftermath. Your, your skin doesn't forget. You know, no organ forgets. Like, we talk about this, and I have a, you know, background in gi. I can tell you with the liver, right? Like, the liver is one of the most regenerative organs in our body, but the liver never forgets. It has thousands of enzymes working so that it can deal with all of your stuff, you know, and, and then it remembers what it can and cannot tolerate, and it remembers its thresholds. And every organ works like that. So I, we start thinking in those terms. We reprogram a lot, whether it's psychological, whether it's biological, it doesn't matter. We're doing a reprogramming. And so anyways, without me ranting too much, I think this is amazing, and I can't thank you guys enough for this wonderful conversation. I've learned so much.
- [70:27]
B
Thank you so much for having.