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Skin Anarchy
Lessons in Leadership: The Future of Beauty with CEW President Elana Drell Szyfer
00:40:28
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- [00:00]
A
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B
Hey, guys. Welcome back to Skin Anarchy. Today's a very special episode because I am truly interviewing a legend in the beauty industry, and she is just so well versed, and she has so much experience across the board. You know, whether it's the brand side, whether it's the product development side, whether it's the leadership and the mentorship component that goes in, I mean, she's seen it all and she understands the space, I think, better than anyone else that I know. And so, without further ado, I want to introduce you guys again to Ilana Drel Cipher. Welcome. She is the new incoming president of CW as well. So welcome, Ilana. I'm so honored to you.
- [01:14]
C
Thank you so much. Thank you. It is week seven.
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B
Oh, wow. I hope it's going well.
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C
It is. It is. Thank you.
- [01:22]
B
Well, I'm really excited, Alana. I. I've been really looking forward to this interview because, like I said, like, I can't think of a better person than you to really kind of get a grasp on where our industry is headed. You know, I think there's so that's happened in terms of development lately in the last few years, and I want to dive into that, but I want to actually introduce our listeners to you and your wonderful career and your background. If you could kind of walk us down memory lane, tell us about, you know, your past experiences. I know when we spoke last year at Raviv as the CEO of Raviv, but just to give them an understanding of your multifaceted career.
- [01:53]
C
Sure. So I. Well, first of all, thank you again. For having me. It's. It's a real pleasure. And we spoke early on in your journey of your own podcast. And, you know, now everybody wants to be on Skin Anarchy. So thank you for having me back. You know, when I talk about my career, I kind of talk about it in two phases. And I guess I'm starting my third phase. So for me, I did not envision being in beauty. I was an undergraduate major in history in college. I did go to school in New York City. And so I. Part of my draw of my sort of the draw of New York City was the opportunity to always have an internship and kind of explore the world of work. And my early internships were utilizing the skills that I thought I had at that time, which were I interned in a PR firm. I ended up writing for a particular company's corporate communications newsletter. And actually through working in corporate communications, I was exposed to the world of corporate philanthropy. And I actually thought I wanted to work in a company and give away their money to support the arts. And I started to pursue that as a career. And the advice that I got from people is, Alana, if you. That's a very difficult job to get within a company, it kind of go. It goes to somebody right before they end up leaving the company. But if that's what you're interested in, you should go work in not for profit. And you should work on the fundraising side and that will introduce you to the companies. And so you can meet the companies that way, maybe someone will bring you over to the other side. And so I did pursue fundraising. And my first job was actually in the development office at the Juilliard School. And I was the liaison between students who got scholarships and the people who were the donators of their scholarships. And while I was doing this, I had a first gen American father who kept saying to me, what are you doing working in not for profit? When are you going to go back to graduate school and when you're going to make some money? So I took my first class in marketing and I said, oh, you know, this could kind of be interesting. Interesting. I kind of like this. Let me think about getting my mba. And I started to investigate that and realized I had zero of the requirements to apply for getting an mba. So I started taking all of the requirements that I hadn't taken as an undergrad. Pre calculus, calculus, macroeconomics, microeconomics, et cetera, studying for the GMATs. And simultaneously I said, but let me also now see if I can get a job in marketing. And I couldn't actually get a job in marketing. It wasn't so easy. But I did get hired to work at Chanel, not in the operating company, but actually in a kind of private area of the company, the family office, because, you know, Chanel is still privately held. And I got that job because I spoke French, and I happened to speak French because that's a personal passion, just like the arts are personal passion. And that was my entree, really, into beauty. It was the first time that I discovered this world of beauty, and where better to discover it than at 9 W. 57th St. At Chanel? And I didn't work in the beauty team, but I observed them and what they were doing, and I was absolutely fascinated. And it was also the first time that I even learned what Women's Wear Daily was or many other publications, kind of trade industry publications, many of which don't exist anymore. And I actually used it as an opportunity to educate myself about the industry and literally see people's names in articles and write to them. Because since I was working as an assistant and I also wasn't in the operating business of beauty, I wasn't quite yet where I wanted to be. And it was through that that I actually then got a job at l' Oreal by writing to somebody. And that was where my career really took off. Again, I did not get a job working in a beauty team. I actually got a job in finance as somebody's assistant a second time, also because I spoke French. But this particular person said to me, it feels to me like you're a little experienced and educated for this. What do you really want to do? And I said, oh, I really want to work in marketing. And so he said, okay, if you do this for me for a year. And he actually had two different jobs, so he kind of needed a strong admin support. He said, if you do this for me for a year, I will help you move into marketing. And I had nothing to lose. So I took the job, and he kept his word. And a year later, I moved into marketing, and I also started getting my MBA at night. And that was kind of the beginning, the origin story of how it all started. And then from there, I worked my way up in marketing, and I spent four years at l'. Oreal. I left and followed a boss to Avon. I stayed there for three years and then ended up going back to l' Oreal for four. And I then spent, left l' Oreal and went to Estee Lauder for seven years, with my last role being on the Estee Lauder brand running global marketing. And I left estee Lauder almost 16 years ago to start running smaller company for private investors or private equity. And so that's what I've done for the past 15, 16 years is I ran three companies, I sold two. And that was when we met when I was at Raviv. So that was an amazing experience for me personally because it was the first time that I worked on a deal from basically the first day of diligence of buying the company, which we bought from Shiseido. I worked on my first carve out standup from Shiseido, which means you buy a company, you take it out and you build it and run it independently. And then I was there through the transaction and the transition of turning it over to the new acquirer who was a Chinese strategic, who is a Chinese strategic. So we sold Raviv in October of 2020. I stayed through April of 2025. And then I guess that's where the new chapter begins. I started doing consulting. I was consulting for a bunch of different brands as well as Cosmetic Executive Women, which is the largest member organization in beauty, health and wellness. And I have been a board member at CW for the past 10 years. They were doing a strategy. The then president, Carlotta Jacobson asked me if I would help with the strateg strategy and I said sure. And so I started working with cew. And then during that time Carlotta announced her retirement and there was a search process and I put my name in the hat and that's. That brings us to today. So that's a very long way to talk about 30 plus years of working in the industry and happy to answer any questions about like individual companies, roles, etc. There's no overview.
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B
No, it's amazing. And I find it to be amazing because you've seen so many different levels of this business. Right. And that's where I think there's a lot of like disconnect for anyone who is maybe even coming into the business side of the industry is like we don't see things as like this connected like landscape. It's always like in silos. I feel like, you know, either like people are talking about indie brands or they're talking about prestige brands. They're talking about really, really big organizations. I mean it's very difficult to wrap your head around. And I'm just curious, your decision making across the board has been like top notch, you know, and what is really, I guess what were some of the things that really made you grounded in what you really wanted to bring to Every organization and carry from one to another. Like, what were some of those pillars for you throughout your career?
- [10:23]
C
Sure. Yeah. Well, I would say once I got into marketing, I think for many years, and let's call them like the first 18 or so, I had a North Star. I knew I wanted to run a global marketing organization. Like, I wanted to be the head of marketing. And so every decision that I made around taking a job within marketing was about thinking about how do I build my experience base to get there. And those, those were, you know, I work. If I worked on a small brand, I would do that for a period time, because in small brands you do everything right. I realized early on in my first marketing job that I was really doing marketing at the time. We also, we called it marketing services. Today it's really project management. But, you know, I was doing marketing, I was doing project management, I was doing education, I was doing a little bit of trade marketing. And so I. I was inputting to sort of global marketing strategy. And when I would tell people all of the things that I would do that I was doing, they almost didn't believe me because my experience was so broad, although the size of the business was so small. And I realized that I needed to, like to build my own skill set. I needed to go much deeper in a specific area, but also on a larger business. So then I moved essentially over to Avon, where then I started working, you know, on much bigger brands and much bigger businesses. But I also was, you know, much more limited in my scope. You know, it was much more defined. And so that was, you know, that I. Then I spent my first eight years working in skincare. And at some point I realized, okay, but people who run global marketing teams, they know all the categories. So now I need to learn another category. And I started learning fragrance and personal care. And then, you know, so I kind of always thought about it that way. I was kind of like, okay, if. If you think about this like a coloring book, right? Like, what are the different things that I need to color in to finish picture? And so it was big brand, small brand, skincare, fragrance, makeup, hair care, body care, et cetera. And it ultimately led me to the role that I had kind of, you know, not known exactly what that was, but dreamed about. And that was my last job at Estee Lauder, which was running a global marketing team. So you were responsible for all product, you know, the entire innovation calendar, all of the brand representation, not only domestically but around the world, you know, setting global strategy, if you will, innovation and visual strategy. For the brand globally. And I did that for three years. But, you know, it was. It was 18 years in the making, basically. And interestingly, that was kind of my first. The first time that I realized, okay, so this is what I've been working for. Now that I'm here, what do I do next? And it became apparent to me pretty quickly that CMOs, global marketers, and I think it's even more so today. You don't keep those jobs very long because, like, the speed of innovation, the speed of change, the speed of technology, the speed of everything, and basically, like, people wanted. I think I kind of looked at like. Like, people who were running marketing teams, and I was like, oh, they better quickly become general managers. Or, like, there's always, like, the next big thing behind you. Like, somebody like the newer, better version of you is literally right behind you. And so that's kind of after doing that role for three years, that's really what I started to think about was, how do I become a general manager? I didn't think that on day one, but at some point I did. And simultaneously, I had a number of friends who kind of said to me, listen, Alana, like, you're. You work all the time, and you are traveling around the world, you know, at. At that time on the Estee Lauder brand. And I think it's still true today, 75% of the business of Estee Lauder brand came from outside of North America. You know, people think about it as a very American brand. It's a very global brand. And so if you're running global marketing, but 75% of your business is outside of the. So should you be as well. And so I spent, you know, I don't want to say I spent 50% of my time traveling, but I spent a lot of time in the markets and a lot of time traveling. And, you know, people started to say to me, you know, Alana, the calculus of this, if you're going to work this hard, don't you want to own a piece of what you're doing? And I said, what does that mean? Like, I had no idea what that meant. And people said, you know, there are other ways to think about running brands, but also to think about investing in yourself and thinking about your career from a financial perspective. And that's this world of private equity and private equity operators, which I literally didn't know anything about. Nothing. And I would say, you know, when I started thinking about this 15 or 16 years ago, there were very few people who were leaving big companies to go Run independent brands. I think today if you polled people in big companies, I would say probably 50% of people, they look at that at this point as their North Star. Like, I want to get trained here and then I want to go run something for myself and I want to have a piece of it, et cetera. But I was completely naive and uneducated and I had no idea the world even existed. And. But that was what I want. I realized that I wanted to run a brand and I knew what the time table was to do that within a corporate environment. And it was probably another five years after already running a marketing team for three. And I was young and impatient. Very honestly, I was like, why do I have to wait five years? I'm ready now. And so I did. I left Estee Lauder. Everybody thought that I had lost my mind. And maybe I had, honestly, like, culturally, the cultural shift for me from going from 18 years of, you know, being in a big company and doing 27 presentations a week and never going anywhere without a 50 page deck, like, to this new world, it was, it was not easy. But I think what I learned was how to integrate the best of incredible training grounds that I got. Basically between l' Oreal and Estee Lauder and even Avon. I had, I learned a very different skill set, but one that I think has served me very, very well. And I tried to keep the best of, of what I knew and process and all of those things, but integrated into a world where you don't have the resources to have all the data that you used to have or the people or the, you know, creative teams or whatever. And you also have to learn to exercise an entrepreneurial muscle, but also to exercise a lot of financial muscles you have no idea exist or need when you work in a big company because there are all kinds of teams of people to do those things for you. Yeah. And so, yeah, that was, that was another big transition.
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B
That's so fascinating. And you know, I find it to be amazing because we live in such a different world right now where. And you brought up marketing. And I really want to get your take on this because the, I think the ecosystem of what I am seeing as marketing today is so different. Right. In terms of like, even when I was, you know, discovering brands as a consumer, like 15 years ago, and how I would discover them and what marketing meant to me now I see it as so different. I mean, we have social media, we have all the hype around, like all of these different apps, you know, TikTok, and there's Just so many different things that are going on. What is your take on how brands are approaching this now in terms of, like, that growth mindset of, like, where they should be spending their time with marketing? Like, what is true global marketing now versus when you were spearheading it?
- [19:10]
C
Okay, well, that. I mean, that's such a great question. And, you know, I don't. I don't want to portray myself as a, you know, marketing dinosaur, but I think. I think one of the very positive things about my many being in the business for many years and then going to work for private equity is that I was afforded the opportunity to be able to serve on some boards. And even today in my new role, I maintain sort of a proximity to operating within the industry by being on some boards. So, you know, I'm. I kind of. I'm not doing it myself. I'm watching others right from the sidelines as I pursue a new opportunity with cw. But I would say marketing is very. There are certain things about the industry that are exactly the same. Let's establish what they are. Yeah. There are many ways for consumers to learn about products. Personalized recommendations from people you trust is still, I think, the number one discovery, and probably always has been, and consumers remain completely engaged and excited about this industry. I think that was the case 30 years ago, and I think that's the case today, and I think that will remain the case in 30 years. Yeah. So that's kind of, you know, while we say the consumer has changed or the. I think the landscape and the landscape for how to concern how and where consumers learn about things, how they want to hear them, who they want to hear them from, who is a trusted source, et cetera. I think all of those things have changed, and the delivery of the message has changed, but I think a lot has kind of remained the same. And, you know, that's a very. That's a view from 30,000ft. Right, right. What has changed completely is customer journey, discovery and distribution. And, you know, it sounds like sort of, you know, kind of quaint today when I tell some of these stories, but I sat in meetings where 30 people around a conference table debated for three hours. Do you put your URL for your website on your print ad in a print magazine, or was that going to make your retailers upset? Right, yeah. Fast forward. Like, nobody reads a magazine. Okay, that's not true. But there are far fewer of them. They are probably reading it on some kind of digital device or just taking, you know, viewing outtakes of it on a social media platform. And Half of those retailers we were, you know, worried about making upset don't exist anymore. Right. So the conversations have changed, just. But there are always new things to consider, right? No, I think the thing that's very challenging, I think the thing that I see today that's so challenging is I do think there was a period of time in the industry for indie brands where the opportunity for kind of new up and coming brands and combined with the barrier to entry being low because of the sort of growth of contract manufacturers, et cetera, you could build a lot with a little and you didn't need as much money to invest. I think today all the choices require capital. And I think for me what I see is the hardest thing about being a marketer, which I think is much harder than being a CEO and general manager, is, is you have to be really, really, really clear on where you're going to invest. Because in the beginning you can't invest everywhere. And so that like decision around where to invest, what's going to move the needle, I think is also incredibly integrated with what is the brand, what is the message, who is the audience, you know, et cetera. So I think, think it's, there's a clarity, if you will, that's needed that I think marketers weren't as required to really know and have in the past.
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B
Right. No, I mean it makes a lot of sense and I think that it's interesting because now more than ever, from what I've seen just in the last few years especially let's stick to skin care, right? Because skin care I think is growing so quickly and I am very fascinated with the way that like the marketing is around things like biotech and like very science heavy like concepts, you know. Where do you think the industry is headed when it comes to these? You know, I think they've almost become buzzwords, you know, like biotech, longevity, science, forward, these big words which I think there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of meaning there. But you know, people call them buzzwords now. Where do you think we're headed with that? And then when we're keeping in mind things like, like obviously marketing, but then more so perception, you know, and staying true to what we're trying to actually accomplish here as an industry versus the perception of consumers or even the critics or you know, any of that. Like what are your thoughts around that?
- [24:29]
C
Yeah, good, great question. I mean, what's interesting for me is kind of watching the journey, right, because there was very much in the past expensive products were sold Very much on how they made you feel. Claims were not important. And mass was very much driven on maybe not some clinicals, but much more performance driven. I think today obviously that's completely been blown up and there is a whole universe like, like everybody wants data, stats, statistics, you know, et cetera. I think what's going to happen in the future is because there's not, there's still a lot of ability I think to mislead what the information means. Right. I don't, you know, consumers. And the one thing that I can say with is with immediate physical gratification and visual demonstration being the way that we communicate with each other. Right. I think irrespective of the claims of anything or what people say, if people don't start to see results quickly or see what's promised, they will change and they will reject. And so I think what that will create is, is a more standardized universe of language. Right. So if I use just like the landscape of. And I'm putting this in air quotes clean. Right. There's still not a standard across the industry. Some retailers, like a Credo or a Sephora have created their own standards so that consumers understand, according to this retailer it meets their criteria. But I do think there will ultimately start to be industry wide criteria around biotech and what does that mean? Longevity and what does that mean? And I think you actually see that happening in two ways. Like I think you're going to see that because of the convergence of what was traditionally skincare and wellness and longevity as well as biotech. I'm thinking about GLP1 so becoming less of a doctor dispensed form, you know, type of remedy as to more of a mass accepted remedy. And so I think with the medical world, if you will, coming together with the beauty, health and wellness world, I think ultimately we are going to get to a place where there's a standardization of what certain things and claims mean. That I think ultimately we will get there. I think at the moment it's a little bit wild west and it's a little bit like good marketing. Right, right. It doesn't stay. And that's where I think this, you see these huge spikes, but then huge declines of virality. Because the only reason why virality goes down, Right. And people step away is they ultimately are not satisfied anymore or they found what they think is the next best thing. Right. I mean that, that's really one of those two things happens, right?
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B
No, that's really fascinating and I, I think that's a great point you brought up is that we do need to, like, I think we want like immediate, like relevance, you know, all the time. I think that's just human nature where you want to see like, where do all the pieces fit? You know, especially when new things come out, like the new biotech, the new innovations, like. But yeah, it's going to take time. You know, I can definitely see that.
- [28:19]
C
You know, I mean, I'll give you an example, right? Because like, okay, I might be like giving my opinion, but I'm also a. And I'm. I'm as beauty obsessed as the next person. And like, I'll use anything. And so I was using, you know, people are very generous. People send me things. I started using something and I was using something that had a combination of three acids and like, I started using it every night and I was using a moisturizer or whatever and I went to get a facial, like old school European steam, your skin extractions facial. And the esthetician said to me, alana, what are you using on your skin? It's so dry. Wow. And I said, huh, interesting. And I kind of talked a little bit about the products that I'm using, which basically it was, this is a laser in a bottle. Everything, you know, your pores are going to shrink, like, you know, your discoloration. And she's like, I explained the ingredients that were in it and she was like, that is just too much for you. Like, it is literally drawn all the hydration out of your skin. And as we all know, if you're drawing hydration out of your skin, you're actually doing the opposite. Right. You're aging yourself. Right, Right. And so she was like, you don't have to get rid of it. Maybe just put it aside. And you know, I realize this from time to time. You know, sometimes more is not better. And I think we are in a world of like, more technology, more this, more that has to be better. Sometimes it isn't. But that's also very individual, right? And I think the other thing that I hope starts to happen in the future is that not only do people become more educated about ingredients, right. But they actually become more educated about the needs of their own skin. And this idea of self diagnosis, right, of understanding, oh, I'm dehydrated, I didn't know I was dehydrated. How do I not know that after working in the industry for 30 years? Like, how come I can't tell that? Right? Yeah, like that. And so I. It's some for me too. It's sometimes a learning, like, sure, I have a medicine cabinet filled with, you name it. But it doesn't necessarily mean that's the best thing. Right? More is not always better.
- [30:42]
B
Yes, I couldn't agree more. I mean I think that it's, that's definitely something I can't wait to see shift, you know, in the skincare space is where we start really like kind of of hammering that into consumer mindset that more is not better. And also like you have to be smart. Like, yeah, there's a lot of bioactives out here. There's a lot of really, really smart ingredients. But like what do you actually need and what do you not need? And that's like a whole different level of education that I can't wait to see come to life, you know, in terms of like accessibility for consumers. But I agree with you. I want to ask you that. I want to shift gears because you have had such a key role in the leadership in this industry and you know, it's in my view leadership and beauty has truly changed dramatically over the last 20 years. What do you think defines strong leadership now versus then?
- [31:31]
C
Well, I mean, I guess I'm interested to, for to ask you what. I'm not sure, like I don't know if good looks different from 20 years ago to today. I think being a leader, you know, has some additional complexities. But I think, listen, I learned a lot for some from some great people and I learned a lot from people who I didn't think their management style was great, but I always think there's something to learn from that also. And so listen, I mean I think leaders jobs are complicated depending on whether you're in a big company or a small company. Right. You have, here are the things that are on your plate on a daily basis, right? You have a business to run internally, you have have competitors to worry about externally. You're constantly dealing with partners who are external, whether they be retailers, agencies, you know, et cetera. You are expected to be the ultimate external sort of ambassador as well as internal ambassador. The external ambassador role I think is similar. It might be as it, as it always was. Maybe they're newer, different parties. The internal ambassador role I think is different because I think we don't all work with a five day in person workforce anymore. You're managing people live and virtually you're managing people who you may not ever kind of see one on one and then it's hard to relationship build if you're only like doing it within the confines of a direct conversation. And I think again there are always Internally, I think how people think about their careers, what they look for in terms of professional development and of course the things you're managing internally, both financial as well as the product as well as the marketing, some of those things may be different. So, so I don't know if leadership itself looks different, but perhaps just the challenges that leaders are facing are more varied. Right. And then you know, you always have, as a leader you have multiple constituents, right? You have your external constituents, you have your team, you have your internal constituents. And you know, some people say like, oh, it's so difficult to deal with investing. I personally didn't think so and I'll tell you why. But if you're not dealing with investors, you know, you're dealing with in a big company, you know, sort of, you have a boss, they have a boss like all the way up to the CEO. And if it's a public company, you know, they have a board. So it's, you know, the hardest thing I think about leadership is just there are always multiple priorities and you gotta, you know, know you may very well know the hierarchy of how you want to approach the priorities in terms of job related responsibilities and like sort of people hierarchy. But that doesn't mean that's how that day turns out, right? Like, you know, you're always juggling the upper left quadrant like high strategic priority, high importance versus like low strategic priority, but like urgent, you know, those kinds of things. So it's kind of the juggler, right? It's really the juggle. And I mean in terms of being a leader, I think the way I've changed over time is I think the very, in the very early stages of leadership, when you finally get that opportunity, you think, oh, I'm the leader, so I'm so I'm the boss. I'm supposed to know everything. And I don't know if people share enough that you don't have to know everything. And that's also an impossibility. Like you just can't know everything. You, you have to know what you're good at and where you can really add value in your role and where you are going to add more value than anyone else. And you also have to have the confidence to be able to say that I'm great at this thing and this is where I need to lean in. And if I don't lean in, in this area, I'm actually denying the organization of something. But by doing that, that I should also recognize there are probably people much better suited to do all of these other things. And I need to hire for those things. Because when you don't understand that about yourself and when you don't understand what you need to hire, that's where organizations kind of go wrong. Right. And it's sort of like you have. You have the CEO trying to do a little financial, but they don't know what they're talking about. And like, you know, I mean, it's. Everything gets messy otherwise makes sense, you know.
- [36:28]
B
And I know it was a very broad question that I asked you, but I loved your answer. I want to round out the interview, Lana, and really get some words of wisdom from you. I mean, I think the whole episode has been very much words of wisdom. But I just want to get some advice for all of the, you know, the younger entrepreneurs, the younger business executives out there that might be tuning in, that are coming into their careers and want, want like a little bit of a guiding light, you know, in terms of where. How to navigate, whether that's from that ethical component, you know, within themselves, or just understanding, you know, how to approach business. Any. Any insight or any advice that you can offer for someone that's really starting off in the industry?
- [37:07]
C
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think, like I said, while I got an MBA, I think I got a second MBA in the. Basically, you know, somewhere between whatever 15 years I spent or 18 years I spent in big companies between L', Oreal, Estee Lauder and Avon. And I think the number one takeaway, I would say, is something that I learned at l' Oreal that is so ingrained in me that I do it every day is like, I know my competition, whatever that is, or I know the industry, and I'm constantly, constantly reading. Right. And so I think there are a certain number of, like, I wake up and there are a certain number of things that I always read because I think, yes, things are changing very quickly. You have to stay informed and up to date. Right. So that's one thing I would tell people. And the second is I think for me personally, I was embarrassed for a very long time to admit what I didn't know and kind of, you know, tried to maybe fill in the pieces, but I. On my own. But I think, think what I would say to people is, like, if you do not know, ask questions. And the other thing that I would say is, like, take a brand. If you're a young founder and there are brands who you think are doing it well, try and diagnose why, like, really get granular. Like, well, what are they doing here? What are they doing here? And it doesn't mean you have to copy them or not copy them. But I think I learned a lot in some ways by understanding what other people were doing right and. Or wrong and trying to make sure that I understood it so I could make a decision for myself.
- [38:58]
B
Yeah, that makes sense.
- [39:00]
C
Yeah, those are. And then, you know, people are like, well, how do you. How do you meet people? Or how do you. You know, I think LinkedIn honestly is like the great democratic equalizer. And if people reach out to me on LinkedIn, like, I. I may not get back to them right away, but I generally do answer and I think reach out to people and ask them questions and, like, if they don't want to answer you, what's the. Like, if they don't answer you, okay, you haven't. You've lost nothing. And if they do answer you and they say, I'm really sorry, but I don't have time to help you, like, okay, you know, nothing ventured, nothing gained. But I do think that one of the things I appreciate a lot about this industry is, yeah, while people are super competitive from a business perspective, I find that people are quite collegial otherwise and do like to share, because even with the information, the information informs, but the individuals or the brands or the companies still have to be the ones to execute. Right. And we can all have the same information and yet execute very differently. And so, you know, those are some things that I would. I would recommend to people.
- [40:11]
B
I love that. Such great advice, and I can't thank you enough for this interview. I've learned so much, and I know in the audience there are a lot of younger people that are getting into the beauty business that can learn so much from these kind of conversations. So thank you so much, Alana. It's always a pleasure.
- [40:27]
C
Thank you.