← Skin Anarchy
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- [00:00]
A
Hey guys, real quick, have you checked out Droplet? It is by far the most revolutionary skincare device on the market. Basically it takes those harder to penetrate ingredients and pushes them deeper into the skin layer so they're actually getting to the cells that can utilize those ingredients. Recently they just launched their Exome Serum mist, which is a phenomenal product because it's using real exosomes that are shipped to you on ice, so you don't have to worry about them being degraded by the time you use them. And so when you put the capsule of exosomes into your droplet device, it creates a fine mist. That mist is allowing those exomes to be pushed into the layers where they're going to actually be able to interact with the cells that can use them. For sign. If you want to check out the device, go to Droplet IO use our code Anarchy A N A R C H Y to get a very special bundle deal on this Exosome and Droplet device duo. Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. I hope you guys are having a wonderful day. I'm very excited about our guest today because we're going to be diving deep into just regenerative skincare, biotech skincare, you know, products that are meant to do a lot more for us than our conventional, you know, brands that we're used to. So I'm very excited to welcome our guest today. She is the founder of a brand that is really leading the way in, I guess you could say the biotech space when it comes to skincare. So please welcome Dr. Robin Smith, who's the co founder of Exoceuticals. Welcome Dr. Smith. I'm so excited to host you.
- [01:16]
B
Oh, thank you for having me.
- [01:18]
A
Yeah, I'm excited to dive in. You know, regenerative medicine is such a interesting field and I, I do research in regenerative medicine. So watching it come into skincare is so exciting, you know, for me and I'm excited to talk to you about the brand, but I'd love to learn more about you and, you know, background and what really got you excited to the point of you wanted to launch your own brand, you wanted to come into the space from skincare angle?
- [01:40]
B
Well, I think I came more from the industry that you were in, which is research. I was very excited. It's been a career of regenerative medicine over 30 years, really looking to how our cells, our stem cells, our immune cells, can be used to treat different diseases, how you can develop therapies. And what people don't really understand is a Bone marrow transplant is a stem cell transplant. So it's been here. The question is, how do you other parts of the body and help repair, restore tissue that gets damaged. So it's been a long career, more focused originally on stem cells, but then expanding to other cells of our immune system and seeing how they can be used to attack different diseases. And then the research and understanding that the ways the cells communicate is through the exosomes. You don't necessarily need the whole stem cell that, you know, the way you can send both the ingredients and the. And the sort of instructions of what to do, the way the cells go from one to the other is through these exosomes. And we got really excited about this and was working on therapeutic development and got with a contract manufacturer who had really started putting together a company that was focused on using this more for wound care and aesthetics. And we got excited and bought some of the assets and the data and. And just built the brand and. And built the company.
- [03:04]
A
I love that. And I love that you have this heavy, strong background in regenerative medicine, because I really want to kind of tap your brain a little bit, if you don't mind, you know, for this interview, because it's so important for, I think, consumers to understand this field of science, you know, especially now that we're bringing into skincare. And I think from what I've noticed, it kind of get. Gets lost right in the. In the marketing and the. All the buzziness. And I really would love to take a minute and just ask you for just clear definitions of things. Right. So when we talk about regenerative medicine, what are we focusing on and what should we be thinking as consumers about this field?
- [03:46]
B
Well, yeah, what we're trying to do is, is really repair and restore and to prevent damage from coming down the line. And how do you do that? Because we're getting hit with so many different things in our bodies. I think now there are up to 52,000 pathways that govern the way it's signaling, the metabol, metabolism, all different parts of the way our bodies work. So as we get older, we get all of the problems that occur, you know, with aging. And then, of course, hormone changes, you know, things with the environment, medication, stress, everything, you know, has an effect on our ability to repair itself. And it gets harder and harder and our stem cells get exhausted, and it's just not as efficient as it was. So what can you do to help sort of give the tools to our body to enable it to be able to repair, restore, to see damaged cells and get rid of them. You know, things that are very important. I don't think people realize that as our cells divide, you know, there's all kinds of damage that occurs along the way, but the body sees those cells as damaged and gets rid of them before you get cancers. I mean, these are things that are happening all the time. We're just become less and less efficient as we age in our ability to fix these things before they become problems.
- [04:58]
A
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that really puts, you know, like, concept like senescence, like, into focus because, you know, I think senescence, again, you know, it's a. It's a wonderful term to understand from science side, but it also has become a buzzword, you know, unfortunately, when in reality we. We should understand the science of it, you know, so that's. That's really very interesting and great that you explained it. You know, historically, skincare has focused on really just correcting problems. So I want to ask you, you know, why do you really lies in preventing or really preserving cellular health instead of just correcting the issues?
- [05:36]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think we know more, so we have the ability to do that. And it's really interesting because that's really what consumers want. It's. They. They sort of moved from like a fix, like plug the holes, you know, to. Then they were really focused on what the ingredients were and were, you know, whether it was organic and green and really focused on. On that piece. But now it's functional. People really want products that will do something that will help maintain and restore sort of the youthfulness and the longevity of the. Of what we have so that you're not necessarily running for the facelift. You can preserve the skin, the texture, the skin barrier, reduce the dark spots, and do it with the products that they're choosing. Finding products that have those ingredients that actually can help not just cover up from the top, but can dig deep into the cellular level and really help restore and repair the tissue.
- [06:40]
A
Yeah, no, I mean that. I mean, to me, honest, like, I think anyone who's listening that has a science background that makes more sense. Right. Like, it almost like it's more intuitive to think of things like, in that way, because that's how the body thinks and the body's logic and. And I always, like, I found myself. And I'm sure you've had these conversations a lot, you know, but I find myself saying this a lot where it's like, we need to start thinking about what is the body doing and how can we just like, allow that to happen better, you know, like just.
- [07:09]
B
Yeah.
- [07:10]
A
Aided along kind of thing. Yeah.
- [07:12]
B
And because so many times when you fix one thing, you're affecting another, Right?
- [07:15]
A
Yeah.
- [07:15]
B
You know, like I'm looking at everyone with the GLP1s and how great it is to have support to lose the weight, but then the hair starts falling out. Right. Because you have a change in the micronutrients. You start getting very crepey skin because you're losing the hydration and, and the vitamins and you're not making the collagen. And the last is effectively. So it's understanding the mechanism of what one thing, how it affects another, and what you can do to help support your body to prevent some of those things from happening. So. So like you said, there's so much buzz out there, people, if you don't really take a minute to understand or know who you can go to ask the questions, you get lost.
- [07:53]
A
Yeah, absolutely. No, absolutely. And you know, that really leads me to asking you about. Because, you know, you mentioned, like, when things change, like signaling is a big topic. Right. Like any kind of signaling, cellular signaling. Understanding cells on that level is huge. And I mean, right now in the industry, we have things like peptides, stem cells, exosomes, growth factors. I mean, we have so much. And, you know, people are using these, you know, products and interchangeably. What are the biggest misconceptions about these technologies that you see? You know, whether it's in the media or even like how consumers are understanding them?
- [08:29]
B
Yeah. Well, I think the buzz around exosomes is very exciting. There's tons of it. But what people don't understand is not all exosomes are alike. Where you source them from matters, how you manufacture them matters. And almost most importantly, more is not better, because that's part of what's happening. Oh, we have 500 billion or a trillion. What does that mean? If you think about it, let's say you had strep throat and you want to go and get an antibiotic. No one says, oh, well, let me take the whole bottle. Right. There were studies that were done to understand what the optimal dose is, how many days you need to take it, how often in the day you should take them. And if you take too much, you can get toxicity. It can, you know, really affect you. If you take too little, of course, you won't get the effect that you're looking for. So if you really, truly believe that these are bioactive and they're working at a cellular level, you. More, more, more, more is not going to necessarily Be better. And actually it can be the reverse. It could be not good for the skin. It could be so much going in that your cells don't know how to respond. My partner always says it's like when you go into a crowded room and everyone is talking at the same time. You don't hear anybody.
- [09:49]
A
Yes. Right.
- [09:50]
B
So it's the same thing. So it's just, we all are individuals who want instant gratification. And you're like, o do it right. You know, you, you jump to say, if I'm going to bother, I might as well make sure I get it done. But you have to be smart about these things and careful. And you know, unfortunately, you know, the world just wants to sell. And they'll make claims and say things that aren't factually based. And that's really what I tell everyone is regardless of the products you, you choose, just make sure you ask, ask, is there data? How do you know how much you, you know, you're using? How do you know that it' a year from now? It's hard to know that, but it's. You have to be careful.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah, no, I could not agree more with you. I think that is like the best advice ever for anyone listening that's using any kind of products that are like these very, I call them biotech ingredients. But really it's anything based in like biology and cell biology. I mean, yeah, absolutely. And I think one of, one of the biggest things, and I don't see anyone doing this, which I don't understand why we try to do it at skin anarchy through our education. But just I would love for you to explain this. It's like the difference between some of these. Right. So if you could walk us through, like, what is the difference between a stem cell, Some growth factors and then peptides. Like what, what should consumers know about, you know, three.
- [11:14]
B
Yeah. So stem cells have DNA, so they replicate. Right. They are truly a cell. And if you need all new tissue, like a bone marrow, so when someone has cancer, you get chemotherapy, you wipe out their immune system. You need an immune system to fight infection. So you. They do a bone marrow transplant, which. And those stem cells seed into the bone marrow and make, they replicate and make a new immune system. So that, that's a very specific use of stem cells to make something new to signal. I mean, because there are 52,000 pathways, right. So there are different signals and peptides can affect a very specific pathway. And that's why people are loving them right now. If you have too much inflam you would need to reduce oxidative stress. You know what's interesting is there's over, I think there's 150 now. It was 80 peptides that are approved by the FDA's drugs. And you know, people don't realize that the GLP1 is a peptide, insulin peptide. There are many things that are peptides because they're going in and they're doing something. GLP1s will go in and they'll reduce your satiety, your hunger, they'll stop the sort of, they'll slow down, if you will, your metabolism. And they signal to the brain that satiety, you know, you're not that hungry. And so it helps the cells bring in the sugar and utilize it as well. So, you know, it has a very specific purpose in the pathways that they affect. What is difficult with peptides topically is they're, they're not lipophilic so they don't go through the skin well, so they don't really get to the cellular level. And so it's important to know what pathway you're trying to affect and making sure that they actually get there and understanding that when they affect one pathway, what else may be happening, that's the key. And exosomes are a little bit more, I look at peptides as sort of the quick hit, makes a quick difference, but you don't get that long term regenerative repair and the regenerative properties we look at more like a suitcase with lots of ingredients in it as well as instructions. So it does more things. But where it comes from matters. There are different plants, different parts of the body. How you manufacture them can make a difference. If you do something to the stem cells before the exosomes are taken, you can actually change the cargo, the ingredients, the instructions that are in those exosomes. So they're going to be different. Whether it comes from skin, we, we love it from human stromal cells, which are the skin cells, the adipose stem cells, because skin, no skin, the bottom part of our skin is fat. So exosomes from there knows what skin cells need. And so we do things to optimize their cargo and deliver them so that at a cellular level you can improve collagen, elastin production, reduce, you know, inflammation. You can help because you're reducing inflammation. Those cells then don't feel like they're stressed. They have the same amount of stress, so they don't make as much melanin. So you don't get dark spots as the skin turns over. Because every 28 days your skin turns over. So it really, I mean, it. The longer term regenerative tool that really will help you sort of repair, restore and give the skin that it needs, it will impact the hair follicle to help stimulate it, stimulate the scalp to hold the hair as it grows, you know, to, to give the tools that the hair needs to be thicker and have more, you know, densification. So you just have to understand the mechanism, how it works, where they should come from to get that message, that signal that you're looking for.
- [15:00]
A
Absolutely, yeah. I love, yeah, I love how you explain this because that's the, I think the missing link is that, I mean, one thing you said really, really stood out was this idea of like, yeah, we're signaling, but then what are, what are the downstream signals that are also being turned on? Because that's something that, I mean, I don't think most people are realizing that, you know, like, for example, like GPCRs, right. Like one of the biggest receptor families that we know about. Once you turn them on, then you have about like 15 different pathways that could be turned down downstream. And then that' that will, you know, it will impact a lot of different, you know, endpoints. So that's like, I don't know. I think skincare is interesting because, yeah, there's a lot of peptides that people are injecting like the GLP1s. But with skincare it's like a topical delivery. So I don't think, I don't think consumers realize that even though it's like, you know, topical delivery, you're still getting to the same, like, you're still going to elicit the same kind of response. It might take a little longer, but you're still going to activate certain cells like keratinocytes, fibroblasts will still start doing all of the different.
- [16:03]
B
Right.
- [16:03]
A
It's not just going to be okay, just collagen production. Like that's, it's never just the case. I mean, I've rarely seen it to where it's just like one and done. And so that's a very interesting concept. And I think it doesn't come up nearly enough, you know, especially in, in any kind of consumer products, you know, as education.
- [16:20]
B
Yeah. And putting the ingredients together. So I love when you take a peptide and the exosome because it helps them travel, it helps them target better and helps them penetrate. So it's really knowing what the goal or, you know, what the mechanism of action each is going to do and how putting them Together could be, you know, could amplify the effect and, and really understanding. And likewise, for example, with like a copper tripeptide, you don't want to use that with a vitamin C, because there's a lot of studies and literature to show that, that they counteract each other. So if you don't really do the, the science right in the lab and you don't understand what's going on, you're not going to give as much effect or, you know, efficacious product. And it's really, really important, I think, for both safety and for efficacy, that people understand why they're using the ingredients. They should be very deliberate about why they're putting those ingredients into the formulas.
- [17:18]
A
Now, my question is, do you think anyone under the age of like, 30 needs ingredients like this? Because I have, like, mixed opinions about it.
- [17:28]
B
I think it can be very helpful. I mean, because the environment is what's really affecting us too. Right. It's one thing, you know, when you're perimenopausal, but, you know, you could have, you know, postpartum. Right. There are different things that affect us. A lot of people were affected by Covid and the vaccines and sun. And I think the more, for example, like with our exosomes, we did studies in the lab and we showed that if you took a cell and you put UV light on it, you get inflammation. And you could test those markers. Right. Illinois 6, Illinois 8. Tumor necrosis factor. If you then put the exosomes, it. Within six hours, it goes back to normal. So it, you know, sometimes you go out, you don't think it's sunny, but those rays are really coming through. And if you're not using the proper sunblock or you get exposed. If you could then put something on your skin to help restore, you know, the inflammation and really help reduce the oxidative stress and make sure that hydration comes in and your, your barrier is the best it can be. You will preserve your skin for longer.
- [18:36]
A
Yeah, I mean, I. It's. It's solid logic. And I think especially that's. That's why I asked you, because I see a lot of. There are some germs that are on one side and some that are on the other, you know, and like, I think with, with that, you're right. Context matters, you know, and it really matters in terms of, like, how much photo damage are you dealing with? You know, what are the other factors? And I think especially with, you know, the main thing is they're so readily available now, these ingredients, you know, like, everybody has a peptide nowadays in their serum or their formula or whatever. And so I think a lot of times it's almost like when niacinamide blew up and everybody started adding niacinamide into every formula. It's similar now, I think, with peptides, you know, where it's like, everybody has peptides. And that's why I think for me as a consumer, I lean so heavily towards understanding exosomes better because Exome is a space, I think, that's still very protected, you know, in the sense of, like, we haven't. We haven't blown up the marketing around it yet, you know, to the point of like, where it's like the education is being drowned out. And so that. That's really kind of my segue into asking you more about exoceuticals and understanding the technology that you guys have employed with your Ex Zone products. And, you know, talk to us about, like, things like sourcing and, you know, all of the. The work that goes behind really securing this kind of biotech ingredient and making it viable in formulations.
- [20:01]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. You know, we look at it that we want to be sure that every bottle has the same amount, the same function. Right. And so ours is really about taking those exosomes purified population, understanding how they work. We have signatures in them, those instructions and the ingredients. And you know, it's not like we filter it and everything is just decided by size. Well, if it's a crochet, cause, you know, exosomes are small, then therefore it's an exosome. We do the work, we do the protein sequencing, we do elisa, we really ensure that we know what is in there, what their function is, what they're doing. And then we add back in other ingredients, other growth factors or peptides or proteins, things we want in the formulas. But our exosomes are very specific. They have a definition, which means they have a mechanism of action. And so that's really what's important. We've done the studies to show what the right amount is in each product, what they do to that dermal papilla cell, the keratinocyte, or they do to inflammation, so that we know what it is we're trying to achieve, which ones to use and how many should be used. And we test anything that comes from any human source for everything as if it's a bone marrow transplant and more. We want to ensure there's no infectious disease. We want to ensure not just that we know what's in there, but that it's safe. We check for prions, we even check for the spike protein because a lot of people now are concerned about that and long Covid and what it means to have that spike protein within our body. And certainly people don't want to bring it in if it's not already there. So we really take safety first. I mean, this is the physician, right? You and I know this, safety first and efficacy is second. So we are very serious about the data, the studies and the safety as well. And so I think it's really important. Where do they come from? Everything is sourced here in the United States, everything is tested and everything's done in a compliant GMP facility. And we really look for stability. So we take our products and we label them and every month we check them to be sure they're still stable. And so if something, you know, sits for a year, year and a half, two years, that you're still going to have a potent product that is safe as well as will give the effect that you purchased it for.
- [22:24]
A
Absolutely. Now I'm glad that you answered that because I, I think that's a big component, is the safety component in terms of understand, you know, which products to really lean towards with exosomes. And so I'm really, really glad you highlighted this because for consumers, the first thing, if any of you are thinking about using exosomes is like, if a brand can't tell you about the safety protocols it went through to ensure that what is in, you know what I mean, like the exosomes are actually safe in the sense of like mycoplasma testing and everything, you know, you know, Dr. Smith just talked about this is, this is critical, you know, and that's where a lot of the, the misinformation, if you is coming from is people who are assuming that brands aren't doing safety testing. You know, that's what another thing I would love to, I personally would love to speak to those critics out there because that's, you guys are spreading misinformation without even understanding what's happening behind the lab doors, you know, so. Right, yeah, like, let's stop doing that because I, I, no, honestly, Dr. Smith, I've really, really like seen this a lot where people are just like attacking the exosome space and they're not realizing the, that there's no reputable scientist or physician who's going to, you know what I mean, like, allow that to happen. Like, they're, they're just, it doesn't work like that. So that's my point. But yeah, but if you filter and
- [23:46]
B
there's the DNA fragments are, are large, they could replicate. Right. So you have to be sure that you're looking at what's left in there and, and doing those testing, that kind of testing. And not everyone does that.
- [23:58]
A
Yeah, not, not everyone does that. You're right. But that's, I think the, the big thing is that you guys are so like, you're in the science, you know what I mean? You're connected to the science. So it's not, I worry about the brands that are coming out of like someone was, had a finance background and they decided they want to launch the skincare brand and now they don't know. You know what I mean? Like what should I do to actually make sure this is real and, and done right? So yeah, that's different. But you know, one of the biggest challenges with exosomes is like stability, right, and stability and delivery. What were some of the scientific hurdles that you had to solve to make sure that, you know, the exosomes are viable upon topical application?
- [24:37]
B
I mean we've done a, of work in our engineering process and you know, the manufacturing and then how we formulate them to keep that stability. Because that lipid violator holds in all those goodies, right. And those instructions and you know, for, for many people's exosomes they have to be, you know, negative 80 degrees. So once they're shipped you have to use them in a certain amount of time. So we're really excited. We've done a lot of work on this actually. We have a publication that we're working on right now and we have multiple year data really understanding, you know, sort of what it is that needs to be done and formulated to have that stability at room temperature. And it's, it's pretty exciting when you, when you understand, right. It's a lipid bilayer. So you know, what you have to put it with is something that's going to preserve that. So we look at temperatures and different ingredients we put it with and, and things that will help support the, you know, that outside membrane that will help, help to help it stay intact.
- [25:35]
A
So what, what is the, the technology Exaceuticals is using and how does it differ from other brands claiming to use exosomes?
- [25:43]
B
So we have a manufacturing process, it's a proprietary process in our manufacturing where we do something to the stem cells before we take the exosomes, both human and plant. And what it does is it modifies the cargo of what, what the signal. Right. It's it is impacting the signal and by doing things to the stem cells you can, that you're, you know, asking the cell, the recipient cell, the one that it's going to, to do and it actually makes sense because if you stress a cell and it realizes it's in trouble, it's going to start making certain factors to protect itself and to repair.
- [26:19]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:20]
B
So if you do some of these techniques before you actually take the exosomes, you can enhance the, you know, the cargo. So it's pretty exciting and we've done a lot of work on this for a long time and you know, it really does have an impact in the, that we look at our engineered versus non engineered and we look at the differences in the results of when the cargo hits the cell, what, what it's having, what the message is and what the cells end up doing as a result.
- [26:50]
A
That's really exciting. It is, yeah. I mean that makes me think of like when we first figured out heat shock proteins and stuff, you know, and like finding ways that people are, that cells can protect themselves, you know, and
- [27:02]
B
that's really got some of our secrets there. Oh, exactly right. That's exactly right.
- [27:08]
A
Yeah. No, that's very, very fascinating.
- [27:10]
B
So you can do that, right? You can make those heat shock proteins and then deliver them?
- [27:14]
A
Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's really cool. You know, it, this is, I think this is the most exciting part for me watching exosomes come to life in the skincare space is because it's letting scientists play in this arena of like, you know, let's see how you know, crazy we can get with this and make it great, you know. And like, I think regenerative medicine is like one of those fields that lets you do that, you know, it lets you explore and it lets you actually bring such deep rooted tech and, you know, understanding into a space like consumer. Right. And I just, I love it. I'm so here for it.
- [27:50]
B
And when you put some of the peptides with it, right. You can get the short term, long term effect with the exosomes. So you really get, you know, it's funny, we have a product and we have different peptides as well as the exosomes and one of them works along that same, you know, pathways like Botox, right? It, it, it's a neuro, you know, tox toxin, right. It affects the muscles and, but it's slowly. And someone who I see, you know, very often said, oh, did you have Botox yesterday? And I'd been using the product for three weeks And I did. I mean, I've been a Botox, you know, for over a year. And it's just, it really was cool to see other people noticing differences from these products. So when you have these functional ingredients that really do something, it's fun, right? It's, it's. You just feel fresh and younger. And, you know, people notice and they say, wow, you look great. What are you doing? Or. And that's what's fun about the products is you, it's not like hair is harder, right? You have to wait longer to see effects because.
- [28:46]
A
Right.
- [28:47]
B
Go of hair growth. But with skin and the right products, you see results very quickly.
- [28:52]
A
Well, that's the whole, that's like, I mean, that's a huge, huge point you bring up because, I mean, skin care for such a long time went from. You did see some results, like when nobody was using anything and we were just like putting on like, you know, like a really rich night cream. We would wake up and like, our skin is super bouncy. It looks different. And we went from that like shock factor almost to like nothing, you know, for so many years. And so now that's where I feel like, okay, now we're like going back, but in a way more sophisticated way. And it's like, this is very, very exciting to see because consumers are gonna, you know, now it's like, you can stop complaining that your skincare doesn't work anymore, you know, so, so that's, that's huge.
- [29:33]
B
And they should demand it, right? Because, you know, not everyone wants to run and it's expensive to run the plastic surgery and you never really know what the result is going to be. So if you can, you know, add ingredients just like you take vitamins and other people, right? Everyone is looking for different ways to stay, you know, younger looking and healthier and more active. And if you can do that for your skin and your hair, I mean, it's wonderful. It's exciting. Like you said, it's such an exciting time. Time.
- [29:58]
A
It is. It truly is. Now, you know, I want to ask you because. Want to kind of circle back because your work has been so deeply rooted in cell therapy development. You know, how did all of your experience and, you know, all of the years of like working in the space so closely influenced the way you really built out the platform, you know, that, that you're putting out with the brand.
- [30:19]
B
Yeah, every product has our exosomes in it. There are signature exosomes. We believe in them. And it's hard because people say, well, can't you Guys make a cleanser. And we're like, well, cleanser doesn't stay on long enough, you know, for the exosomes to absorb. And that is what, you know, that's sort of our signature. It's our. Our belief is. Is in the reparative regenerative science. So we really. That's really what we believe in. And we're making products that will have that functional capability and that can work with other things that you do. Skin care is so personal, you know. You know, even which products, the order of these, and when you use them, you know, there's certain things scient. That makes sense. You have those circadian rhythms even in your skin and. And your hair. So certain things at certain times can have a deeper impact than others. But it's personal. And so, you know, you don't want people to have to be sort of slaves to it either. Right. You want it to be easy and functional and feel good to use. We're very focused. We have no fragrance. It's not. Our stuff isn't sticky. We really try and make it easy. It can be a good primer. Then you can put sunscreen, you can put makeup. It's kind of no nonsense, but very technical. Technical.
- [31:32]
A
Yeah. No, I mean, I think. I really like that. I mean that. I think that speaks to the. The true efficacy and the. And the scientific reasoning. Because when I see. If I see, you know, exosomes in a cleanser, I'm just like, what are we doing? Like, well, I'm just washing them off. Like, Exactly. Yeah. And also, I mean, the timeline, right? I mean, I don't know if you have a number for this. I haven't really read anything. But how long do you think it takes to really start seeing, like, significant results from exosome signaling? I mean, how, how long, like, on average, would somebody have to wait?
- [32:05]
B
I mean, I could tell you from our. Our products. We saw statistics. Like, we had a third party do a clinical study and we saw a statistically significant reduction in crow's feet around the eyes within seven days. Though our studies were more for 28 days. And that's where we saw a reduction in wrinkles, improvement in luminosity and water retention, you know, and all of that stuff. But it truly, within a week, you're going to see results.
- [32:28]
A
That's amazing. That's huge. That's really fun.
- [32:31]
B
Your skin feels smoother and softer. And it just, you know, it depends how much is needed, right? I mean, if you take care of your skin and you've been using products For a long time, you know, to see a change may take a little bit longer just because you have healthy skin. But if you're someone who really doesn't, hasn't done a lot and hasn't used a lot of sort of good functional products, you'll see results very quickly.
- [32:54]
A
Also I feel, I feel like if you're seeing more signs of aging also because I mean this conversation has come up before and you know in our emails where people ask us like well you know, should I be using like a copper peptide? Right? Like, like and it's like well, copper tripeptide. It comes from wound healing, you know. And so when your, your skin is or your wound, wound is screaming for help, that's when it's utilized by the body. And that's kind of how human physiology is, is like you know, when there's a need, things are utilized. So I think with aging more, you know, photo damaged skin, more aged skin, your skin is looking to regenerate. Regenerate. It's looking for help. And so you're probably going to see a different timeline of results versus somebody who's not there yet. You know, that's my, I mean that's my thinking.
- [33:38]
B
But that's a very good point. I mean the more need that is there, of course you're going to see definitely more of an impact. But you raise a really good point too. Like if look at stem cells from, I mean, sorry, exosomes from plate platelets as opposed to stem cells. Right. Those do different things. Platelets are what runs to your skin when you have a cut or a problem that you need to stop bleeding and quickly be anti infective. It's just, it's not as regenerative. Right. So it's, it's more that wound healing. So it's the same thing. That source is going to have an impact on that long term regenerative capabilities that you may have more with one than with another.
- [34:12]
A
Another. Right, right. That's very fascinating. Now I want to, I just want to ask you this, like kind of a hypothetical question, but very curious, you know, if we were to fast forward 10 years from now, what role do you think regenerative technologies like exosomes and I mean anything else that we discover I guess in the future will play in everyday health care and not just skin care, you know, because healthc care I think is merging with this like consumer space, you know. And so I just want to hear your thoughts.
- [34:42]
B
Yeah, I mean 100% like I got really excited about the exosome Space when the Nobel Prize was won in 2024, just two years ago, when they determined that the Mirna can actually reprogram a cell. You know, generally your DNA as you know, tells your MRNA to make certain proteins and it's sort of they're committed. But the fact that you could actually change that, you could after, afterwards use the mirna to re educate and change the epigenicity of the cells, what's being expressed is huge. And so I think because they're hardy and they're tiny and they transport well, you can do a lot with them. And I think we're going to see a lot more opportunities both in the diagnostic side, but therapeutic side where you could load them with chemotherapeutic, you could load them with a gene you can use as carriers of other properties, whatever is needed to really target very specifically cells to have an impact on diseases. And we see with many diseases there's a change in your mirna. Some are upregulated, some are downregulated. So if you could take an exosome and therapeutically target it, you could actually, I mean the hope will be that you'll be able to come up with therapies for different diseases where you can help modulate what's out of balance in those diseases.
- [36:08]
A
Absolutely, yeah, that's, I mean that's going to be very exciting to see where we get to. I agree with you about the Nobel Prize, like when, whenever we discover something in medicine, I'm always just like sitting at the edge of my seat, like where is this going to go? You know, like, how are we. Absolutely.
- [36:23]
B
And because every cell of everything plan food, you know, human, all tissues have exosomes, they, there's a lot of, of research now on diagnostics. Can you see earlier?
- [36:37]
A
Yeah.
- [36:37]
B
Certain diseases, maybe it's cancer, maybe you can determine that some there's a fibrosis, you know, that someone's going to be more susceptible to getting certain diseases. So I think there's going to be a lot of opportunity. The exosomes has a lot of information and it's pretty exciting.
- [36:56]
A
Yeah, the biomarker space is very, very exciting with exosomes. Yeah, I love it. But I'm, I'm such a fan of what you've created with exiles. And I think that this is such a great way to approach regenerative skincare. And I just want to say that for our listeners because I know that there's a lot of brands right now, you know, but I think it's very important to put the science first. So this has been so educational and and for anyone listening, if you want to check out the brand, if you want to learn more about the brand, make sure you scroll down in our show notes. We're going to be linking everything right there. So and let us know if you've already tried the, you know, tried the products. But thank you so much. This has been so wonderful chatting with you.
- [37:32]
B
Of course. And 15% of our body is our skin. Right. So there's skin all over. And there's a lot of opportunity to help impact our bodies with different products. So we'll continue to innovate and bring good things and really excited. And thank you for having me.
- [37:48]
A
Thank you so much. Bye. Bye.