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#skinthusiast: the podcast
From Bullshit To Botox: A Rebel’s Guide To Self-Love & Eternal Youth with Sandra Silverman
00:48:31
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- [00:00]
Sandra Silverman
And I'd done so much research on compound pharmacies, so I was petrified. So then I didn't do that at the time and I kind of regret that early, like in my early 40s. I also feel like I would have benefited from a facelift more like closer to 40, 41 than waiting until I was 47.
- [00:17]
Amy
Interesting. So you wish you would have done it even earlier.
- [00:20]
Sandra Silverman
I do.
- [00:20]
Amy
I remember when we first met that comment and like learning that you had already had a facelift and it had been. You'd already been fully healed by the time I met you, I was like, wow. I have never heard of anyone getting a facelift this young. Welcome to Skenthusiast, the podcast, a place for listeners to hear from the experts and soak in tangible tips to get that glow from the inside out. I'm Amy, a skincare educator, practicing dermatology PA and beauty creator who bridges the gap between the consumer and the industry. Listening to the industry's top experts on everything from the best way to spot treat a pimple to the Holy grail hair products you didn't know you needed to the drugstore finds that are better than luxury price tags. We cover it all. Here, dermatologists, beauty and wellness experts, brand founders and thought leaders share their tips and tricks for all things beauty, skincare and wellness. Think of hashtag Skusiast like the coffee chat with the beauty gurus whose brains you've always wanted to pick. You won't get this kind of insight anywhere else. Today's guest is a little bit unconventional. I'm going to be honest with you guys. You have probably never heard an episode like this on my podcast, but I recently read this book, From Bullshit to Botox, which was written actually by a patient of mine, which we're going to chat a little bit about here. She's here with us today and she's really tried everything in the cosmetic space. And after years and years of spending a lot of money in search of quote unquote, anti aging, she started to realize that she needed to kind of round out her approach and start taking her mind, body and spirit into the equation too. So we go through a lot of the kind of trendy options that she's tried, a lot of the procedures. Also some things that I had personally never heard of that literally left my mouth on the floor. So there's a lot of information here. Take everything with a grain of salt. Sandra is amazing and there is honestly no one like her. So I hope that you enjoy this episode. If anything, it's going to be very entertaining. Sandra, thank you so much for being here. I'm especially excited about today's conversation.
- [02:14]
Sandra Silverman
Thank you so much for inviting me, Amy.
- [02:16]
Amy
So I like to start each podcast by asking my guest, what is your first skin or skincare memory?
- [02:21]
Sandra Silverman
So the first one was in my 20s when I just first started getting facials at, like, 25. That's my actual first memory. And I used a skincare line called Darfon.
- [02:33]
Amy
So what? And what? I've never heard of that line. What was it like?
- [02:36]
Sandra Silverman
It was a French line. It was good. That was my first experience.
- [02:39]
Amy
Yeah.
- [02:39]
Sandra Silverman
So before that, it was more like pharmacy or drugstore brands, but the first one was Darwin. So that was in like, the 19, like 1995. 96.
- [02:50]
Amy
Yeah. You have, you've done so much, and I think there's a lot of books on the market. We're going to get to your book that are kind of from an expert standpoint, but nothing that I've seen from, like, a patient standpoint, and certainly not from someone who is so open about everything. You're truly an open book about everything you've done. I mean, literally, I, I put a copy and paste here from the book from breast implants, rhinoplasty, you talk about chemical peels, microblading, of course, CO2 laser. We'll talk about that. But the most exciting thing for me also reading the book as a consumer was like, the biohacking and all of the really fun things that you're doing in the name of, like, longevity. So what would you say is the craziest thing you've done in the name of anti aging and longevity? If you could pick one.
- [03:31]
Sandra Silverman
The craziest thing that I've done, which I actually regret, was the Y lift. And I talked about that in the book. So the first time I did the Y lift, it was great. And then the second time I repeated two years later, and this was to use instead of a facelift, it was a disaster.
- [03:48]
Amy
And what is a Y lift? For those who don't know, Y Lift.
- [03:50]
Sandra Silverman
Is a doctor in New York, his name is Jan Troel, and he created this system where he goes into, I guess deep into the muscle or the tissue area with a cannula. And I think he used maybe like 25 vials of filler.
- [04:07]
Amy
Oh, my God.
- [04:09]
Sandra Silverman
It was insane.
- [04:10]
Amy
And this technique, you've never heard of this?
- [04:12]
Sandra Silverman
So I saw him on Good Morning America when I was looking into facelifts because actually, at the time, my mom had talked me out of the facelift and she's like, please don't do it. And then I happened to see him on Good Morning America, and I thought, well, this will be a good. A good alternative. So I went to see him in New York. I did the Y lift, and it was fine the first time. And then I repeated it a year and a half later when he came to Miami, and it was a disaster. He literally caused my face to look like a pie. And it took so long for me to remove the filler. I had tried one doctor and she was unsuccessful. And that's when I found Dr. Bauman, when I found your office, and she was able to help remove a lot of the filler. And then from there I had the facelift. So that was the biggest thing that I did that I regret.
- [04:59]
Amy
Was that why I've never even heard of.
- [05:02]
Sandra Silverman
You have to look. I mean, it's insane to that because he. He shows videos. And the first time it was fine. And the second time, but he uses so much filler. And it worked the first time, and the second time it did not work.
- [05:12]
Amy
It was really so interesting. And of all the things you've tried, what has been your favorite? I know that it's. That's kind of a hard thing to answer because everything targets different things, but what's been like, maybe one of your most favorite procedures, just.
- [05:25]
Sandra Silverman
Favorite procedures I would have a hard time living without would be the threads. And I actually did not like the threads years ago, but now they've changed. And I also think it depends on the injector.
- [05:38]
Amy
Absolutely.
- [05:38]
Sandra Silverman
But with the threads, I feel like after getting the facelift, I'm able to maintain with filler, a thread here or there. Body threads, for sure. So instead of getting. Having a knee lift, I'm able to use the threads on my knees to pull the skin as well as my stomach. So I would have a hard time living with.
- [05:56]
Amy
Yeah, it's so interesting because the threads, as you mentioned, have been around forever, but they've kind of just been like rebranded and revamped recently. And as you mentioned, it's so important that you go to someone who's like an expert in threads, who. That's like all they do. They train on it because it really is such a niche thing to get done. You have to go to someone who really is really great at it. In your intro in your book, you say, I went from looking good in my 20s and 30s to being completely unrecognizable in my 40s. I feel like I almost aged overnight. And it made me Chuckle a little bit, because there's a new study, I don't know if you've seen it, that came out in Nature Aging that shows that instead of this, like, gradual aging process, humans actually age rapidly at two different points. One is estimated around the age of 44 and one around 60. So it's. It's funny that you noticed that in your 40s that you started to see this rapid aging. And if you knew that ahead of time, is there anything you would have done differently in your 20s and 30s to kind of prepare for that?
- [06:56]
Sandra Silverman
I would have. I definitely. I would have taken better care of my skin, as. In terms of not as much sun exposure. And also, I think I would have benefited from going to a hormonal doctor in my 30s instead of waiting, because I feel like my hormones had changed. I had changed. I had a lot of issues with my lymphatic system that I didn't realize. So I looked very puffy in my 40s, and I feel like I must have had some hormonal imbalances that I wasn't aware of. And I was a little scared because I did go to a doctor that was, like, more. I guess, more holistic at the time that wanted to prescribe, like, testosterone and some hormonal replacement drugs from a compound pharmacy. And I'd done so much research on compound pharmacies, so I was petrified. So then I didn't do that at the time, and I kind of regret that early, like in my early 40s. I also feel like I would have benefited from a facelift more like closer to 40, 41 than waiting until I was 47.
- [07:58]
Amy
Interesting. So you wish you would have done it even earlier.
- [08:01]
Sandra Silverman
I do.
- [08:02]
Amy
I remember when we first met that comment and, like, learning that you had already had a facelift and you'd already been fully healed by the time I met you, I was like, wow, I have never heard of anyone getting a facelift this young. Do you feel like you were one of the first in your circle, or was it more normal?
- [08:18]
Sandra Silverman
No, definitely. Most of my friends are just now getting facelifts in their 50s. Everybody thought I was crazy, including doctor.
- [08:25]
Amy
Yeah, I know.
- [08:26]
Sandra Silverman
She tried to talk to. You know. Yeah, she tried to talk to me out of the facelift, but I just knew that I needed it. And I'm. I'm. I'm. I don't regret it. I'm so happy. It's one of my favorite procedures that I. That I've done, and I'm happy that I did the procedure at 47. But I do wish that I had done it earlier because I started seeing a lot of laxicity at a very much younger age, like early 40s. And that's when I did the wide lift. But I would have benefited earlier, sooner.
- [08:52]
Amy
That's so interesting. And how. So what. How did you approach this if you didn't know anyone who had had one your age? Like, how did you even find a doctor? The doctor that you did find, was he well versed in treating younger patients? Now it's more common. People do facelifts in their 40s now. It's not as uncommon, but I mean, even just a few years ago, I feel like you weren't really hearing about that.
- [09:12]
Sandra Silverman
No. So I literally researched for about a year online just researching different doctors, googling best doct for a facelift. And Dr. Andrew Dracono popped up on my computer and I started looking at his before and after photos on his website. And I couldn't even believe what I was seeing. I really was so impressed by these before and after photos. I don't know if he had an Instagram at that point. If he did, I didn't see the Instagram, but when I saw the before and afters on his website, I immediately knew that he was the right person. And so I scheduled a consultation, went to New York, met with him, knew right away that he was the right person. Just the way that he explained how important the facelifts are for women in their 40s, it made a lot of sense. And he showed me so many before and after photos, and I just thought he would be the right doctor and he can make you look the most natural at that age. That's his best work, basically.
- [10:08]
Amy
Yeah. So it makes sense when you think about it, because you're dealing with a much more minimal degree of laxity than trying to reverse decades and decades of aging later in life. But I also understand quite obviously why people are afraid of something like that at such a young age. And I think also when it comes to any cosmetic procedures, we only see bad work. Right. As a consumer, the work you see on the street that you're like, oh, that person has had a facelift, it's because it's bad. You don't see the good work because you don't know they've had it. You know, good work is undetectable. So it's super common for people to be afraid of these things. And, you know, we're going to get to later in the book because you have a lot of really, really insightful information about Things that you do outside of caus, cosmetic procedures that you mentioned really round out how you are approaching this whole anti aging and longevity thing. So I don't want people to. To think that this episode is just going to be about nips and tucks, but I also think it's important that we bring it up because I think in today's society there's so much shame around wanting to look and feel better. Almost as if we shouldn't want, you know, anti aging is now considered like a bad term to use, which is kind of ridiculous. I think if it's something that you're. You're looking to look more youthful and more vibrant, then everyone should be have access to the information to do so and not feel ashamed about it. Do you feel like that's one of the reasons you wrote this?
- [11:24]
Sandra Silverman
Yeah, that's definitely one of the reasons. Because so many people are afraid to talk about. And I had friends that I wanted to, to include in the book, even anonymously, and they still wouldn't.
- [11:35]
Amy
Isn't that crazy?
- [11:36]
Sandra Silverman
Like we're not going to talk about your name. I won't even mention your name. I have a friend who's done so many procedures, actually, she's never had a facelift and she's 60 and she's gorgeous.
- [11:46]
Amy
But.
- [11:46]
Sandra Silverman
But she's done so many lasers and other beauty treatments and procedures. And I wanted to talk to her in the book and get her expert opinion about certain, certain laser machines and that sort of thing. And she would not even be in the book anonymously. So I feel like people are just so afraid to talk, especially in my age group. They're so afraid to talk about different, you know, procedures or treatments that they've had.
- [12:10]
Amy
Why do you think that is? Why do you think it's such a.
- [12:12]
Sandra Silverman
Tab with my age group? It's different because we didn't grow up with social media. So now with the younger generation, it's like normal to have common. It's common to have.
- [12:21]
Amy
It's so true.
- [12:22]
Sandra Silverman
Exposed and out there, but for my age group, it's not. So I think so many women are afraid or don't want to talk about.
- [12:28]
Amy
They don't want people to know what they've done, which is. That's their prerogative too. Absolutely. You don't, you don't have to, you know, speak about these things if you don't want to. But it is just interesting how there's like so much shame around that. One of the quotes from your book, which I thought was so cute, you said I have never and probably will never embrace my grays. It looks hot on a lot of women, especially those skinny, many chic Parisians, but I am not one of them. And I think that's just a really nice way to wrap up the fact that we can do as we please. We can talk about it if we want. We where we can dye our hair if we want. I think especially on my Instagram, I get a lot of comments of people who are kind of angry saying, why don't you just embrace your age? Why do you have to do Botox? Or why do you have to use retinoids? It's like, but why not if you want to? Why does it have to be such a shameful thing if you decide that that's the course you want to take?
- [13:16]
Sandra Silverman
I feel like my. The way I feel about gray hair, I feel like it ages you so much. And yes, I do think there are so many women that look beautiful with gray hair, but I feel like it ages you. You could have the most beautiful young face and if you have gray hair, it's going to age you at least 10 years. That's just my opinion.
- [13:34]
Amy
Yeah. And for some people, that's not an issue for them. And like you said, they're like, some women rock it so well, but for some others, it really does. You know, when they look in the mirror, they don't want to see it. It's wish they could change. So there's actually, I don't know if you've ever heard of it. There's a supplement called Array that I recently found out about. I have my husband on it. And then I use the topical serum and it actually like reverses gray hair. So it's going to be really interesting to see like over the next 10 to 20 years, all the technology that we have in, in that space. I just find it so fascinating. So I want to talk a little bit about the CO2 laser, because that's how we know each other. That's one of the things that we like to do together. So what are some of your thoughts on the laser from the patient side? So, like, describe the downtime. Was it what you expected? Any surprises? Because it isn't the easiest laser. Right. There is some. Some downtime associated with it, definitely.
- [14:26]
Sandra Silverman
So I happen to really like the CO2 laser. I feel like doing that once a year is great for your skin, especially for me, because I have a lot of pigmentation. So it actually kind of resets my skin for the year. And then so for me, I like it I know a lot of people are hesitant because of the downtime. So for me it's like seven days and you look like a burn victim.
- [14:50]
Amy
Yeah.
- [14:50]
Sandra Silverman
Like me cycle.
- [14:51]
Amy
That's just that, like you're out.
- [14:53]
Sandra Silverman
Yes.
- [14:53]
Amy
Like I tell people you're not going to want to leave your house. It's not like micro needling where you can just throw on some tea and sunscreen and go out the door.
- [14:59]
Sandra Silverman
Yes.
- [14:59]
Amy
So.
- [15:00]
Sandra Silverman
And you have to be very careful wearing a mask. So I wear the mask from Amazon like a shield over your face. You have to be careful. But I really like the CO2. I don't. It's a little painful, but we are able to manage the pain with.
- [15:14]
Amy
We use the pro.
- [15:15]
Sandra Silverman
The Pronox and a pain pill, anxiety medicine. But that's been helpful doing it that way because we've done it the other way without that and it's a little painful. But I like the CO2 especially. We were working on my elbow scars and that's been really helpful as well, flattening the scars. So I'm a fan of the CO2. I mean, it is harsh, but there are different levels that you can do. So if you don't need to have it so aggressive, you can do a light CO2.
- [15:43]
Amy
And let's chat a little bit about the scars on your elbow because that was interesting. The CO2 laser can be used for surgical scars, but I know in the book, obviously you're very open about your surgery, but can you tell the audience? Yeah, like elbow scars, what?
- [15:57]
Sandra Silverman
So the elbows. So I absolutely hated my elbow skin. So I had so much extra skin on my elbows and it literally drove me crazy every day. So basically I found a doctor in New York. She specializes. I mean, she'll do arm lifts, she'll do breast augmentation, but she had so many requests for elbows. So she created this technique in her office using a local anesthetic. So she actually cuts the elbow skin while you're awake in her office. And it's like an hour long procedure. The downtime, there really wasn't any downtime, but you do scar. So we were able to start working on the scars a year after the procedure. So that's basically where we are now, just trying to flatten the scars. And it's working. It's just a process.
- [16:47]
Amy
And what I tell people with surgical scars too is that it also takes time for your body and your immune cells to come in and help those scars heal as well. So you have to give it time for everything to work together. And the Sooner that you can treat them, the better. But surgical scars are tough.
- [17:03]
Sandra Silverman
They are tough, but there are things that you can do. So for us, with the CO2, we're flattening the scars, which has been very beneficial, using the CO2 laser, using the V beam, but to take away the redness. And then once the scars are completely flat and they're all the redness is gone, then I'll camouflage the scars with a tattooing technique that will just make the scar flush color.
- [17:28]
Amy
Yeah.
- [17:29]
Sandra Silverman
So it'll blend.
- [17:30]
Amy
And did you already know going into that? Like, did you already have somebody in that you. This is so funny. Like, you're so thorough. How do you find these people? Just tons and tons of research and.
- [17:40]
Sandra Silverman
Yes.
- [17:40]
Amy
And basically.
- [17:42]
Sandra Silverman
So the scar, my tummy tuck scar, I was able to do that with the same. Not we didn't use the CO2, but I was able to use a Fraxel or IPL. An IPL on that scar. And then once that scar was flat, then I camouflaged it and you can barely see it. So I'm hoping to do the same with the elbow scar. So it's a little different because you're using your elbows so much.
- [18:05]
Amy
Yeah.
- [18:06]
Sandra Silverman
So the scar is actually wider than the tummy tuck scar. But I looked at the pros and cons and I decided I would rather have the scar than all the loose skin because that's one of the main places that you can tell a woman's age. Your elbows, your hands, your knees, basically.
- [18:23]
Amy
Yeah. I think it's always interesting and important to have that conversation. All of these procedures, there's usually a trade off. Right. And usually it's in the form of some sort of scarring. So you have to understand, going in, are you willing to trade the results, exactly like you just said, for a scar that you're going to have to work on, because at the end of the day, anytime you're cutting the skin, there's going to be changes to the area, including scars. So I think sometimes people go for procedures and they're just completely unaware of that or they're not made aware of that. I have a lot of patients who come in for. For scar revision, for things like breast lifts or. Or liposuction. And they say things like, I wouldn't have done this had I known, especially my younger patients. Yeah. Who maybe just thought it was going to be a super easy. I have one patient who has scars from a breast reduction that come all the way here and she's like, I can't even wear a Bikini. Like, I wouldn't have done it had I known. So I think it's so important that you know to talk about these things, because it's not always just like packaged in a pretty little bow. There's, there's wrists risks with these procedures. So it's important to understand the surgeon.
- [19:27]
Sandra Silverman
Should explain the scarring. And in the book, there's a section of the breast augmentation and breast lifts. So I explain all the different lifts.
- [19:37]
Amy
And the scarring associated with them. So you mentioned that after spending tons of money and time, you weren't seeing things come together in the way you wanted and you realize you weren't looking at the big picture. It turns out it takes a lot more than just cutting or injecting your skin to look and feel amazing again. So at what point did you have this revelation that it wasn't just cosmetic procedures that you needed to chase Covid?
- [20:00]
Sandra Silverman
So basically it was during COVID when I still looked puffy, and I realized that I needed to work on the lymphatic, my lymphatic system. And I think because of all the procedures that it caused problems for my lymphatic system. So once I realized that that was the cause of like, puffiness in my face, puffiness in my body, and started working on the lymphatic, then I saw a big difference.
- [20:27]
Amy
And what are some of the things that you implemented? Because, I mean, you, you kind of do it all. And this, like, as I mentioned, is the most fascinating part of the book to me, I think, because I'm very, as I mentioned, into the longevity of it all. And so many of the things that you employ here for looking better also are just great for your overall health and helping you feel better from the inside out. So, like, what are some things you started to do at this time?
- [20:49]
Sandra Silverman
So before COVID I was taking the peptides. I didn't see a lot of change. I was taking a muscle building peptide and skin peptides.
- [21:00]
Amy
Are these oral or injections?
- [21:01]
Sandra Silverman
No, these are injections. They're subcutaneous, so they're easy to inject. I wasn't really seeing a big difference then until I started doing the lymphatic work. So basically everything that I was doing with the dietary change, counting calories, weightlifting, I wasn't, I still wasn't seeing a lot of the changes I should have seen because my body still looked puffy. And I think once I started doing lymphatic, then my face looked more sculpted, my body was looking more sculpted. I wasn't really holding on to the water that I was holding on to before and that was a big game changer. And then I started seeing my abs and I'm like, wow, I really have abs. And also changing, adding more protein. So since I'm a vegetarian, it's really hard for me to get the protein that I need. So my trainer would constantly tell me, you need 100 grams a day. And I wouldn't listen. And then this past spring I finally listened and I increased the protein from 50 to 100.
- [21:58]
Amy
Oh wow. So you doubled your protein.
- [21:59]
Sandra Silverman
Double my protein.
- [22:00]
Amy
Did you have any side effects with that? Like no, just.
- [22:03]
Sandra Silverman
No, it didn't upset my stomach, it's just increasing the protein. Now I'm able to build the muscle. You can actually see the muscle building. And before I should have been able to see it because I was taking the right peptides of taking the right supplements, doing weight training six days a week and I still wasn't seeing the results. It really is the nutritional part. It really is. 80% your diet.
- [22:21]
Amy
It's so funny because I feel like we're told this all the time, like this, that 80, 80, 20%, like we all hear that literally for decades, but none of us really actually do it. And it's, it's difficult to get that much protein. It is. What are like some of your tips and tricks? Are there any like snacks or things to have?
- [22:37]
Sandra Silverman
So there's a shake that I drink that some people aren't going to like because it's not the, the cleanest shake that you can possibly buy. But for me it's clean enough, it's 40 grams of protein. And at the same time I eat protein donuts that somebody take brings to my gym that are made out of egg whites. They're baked and they're made out of egg whites. So I eat those. So that's 30 grams. So before I leave the gym and I'm there for two hours, I already have 70 grams. Then I eat three eggs with either like a hash brown or gluten free toast. So then by noon I've already had my hundred grams and then the rest easy. Yeah. So then the rest of the day I'll eat salads. Everything else that I eat, vegetables, salads, it's just extra.
- [23:20]
Amy
This episode is brought to you by. Well me. Skinthusiast.com is your one stop shop for all things skin, hair and beauty. I have countless blog posts to educate you on all the skin concerns and most common skin questions I receive. We also have a complete skincare basics guide on Our shop page as well as the cutest in my skin era crewnecks. If you want to support the show, please head over to skinthusiast.com shop and don't forget to rate and review the show wherever you listen to podcasts. So you mentioned a lot about biohacking in your, in your book. What exactly does biohacking mean for people listening who have no clue?
- [23:58]
Sandra Silverman
So my definition of biohacking would be to figure out how to reverse age. And that's basically for me, that's what I, I learned over time. And it's not just taking the peptides and working out and that sort of thing, but it's almost everything, including the way that you dress, the way that your clothes fit, the jewelry that you wear. So for women my age, you'll see women with like outlandish jewelry wearing like 10 carat diamond earrings or rings or giant necklaces. And that honestly ages you, right?
- [24:32]
Amy
Because us young people can't afford those diamond.
- [24:34]
Sandra Silverman
So it's like to me, like I wouldn't wear that because I feel like it ages you. I like more trendy, like classic and trendy combined. But also if your budget only allows for you to shop at Zara, that's fine as long as the clothes are tailored to fit you. Because you could have an outfit on from Zara that looks amazing instead of a, a two thousand or three thousand dollar designer outfit that doesn't fit you or looks ages you basically. So I feel like it all adds up. It's not just the peptides or the nutritional supplements or the skin care, but I feel like it's the way that you dress, the way that your clothes fit. It's, it's so, it's everything, your hairstyle. So there was a photo that I saw recently of Alice from the Brady Bunch. I mean, it's so funny. It's so funny. So Alice from the Brady Bunch was in her 30s with the short haircut from in the 1970s, that it was probably like a 1950s haircut. It just aged her so much. And then they took that photo and put a more like in style modern wig on Alice for, you know, modern times. She looked like a young lady.
- [25:42]
Amy
Isn't that crazy?
- [25:43]
Sandra Silverman
But it's just the, just even your hairstyle, like your hair color, like everything, the way that you wear your makeup.
- [25:49]
Amy
Have you ever seen like the memes about the Golden Girls and like the, and Golden Girls were in their 40s and 50s and they looked like they were in their 70s and 80s. But then ever since I Saw that meme whenever, like I see a clip of the show and I actually look at them, I'm like, you're right, their skin doesn't actually look like they're in their 70s or 80s. It's everything else. It's their style, it's their hair that's aging them. So I think that's really great advice. Now when it comes to some of the other things like the peptides and I know you do like different, a bunch of different types of injections and your supplement routine is very extensive. Do you ever get nervous? Like, are you a very risk averse person? Like to me I would get so nervous about side effects of some of these things.
- [26:28]
Sandra Silverman
No, I know I should be nervous.
- [26:30]
Amy
What's the personality thing? Yeah, some people just aren't overly nervous about these things.
- [26:35]
Sandra Silverman
I trust my holistic doctor so much so I feel like if she's prescribing a supplement or an injection that everything's going to work out fine. And it has so far. Yeah, we do do a liver detox because you know, some of the supplements, like you should be detoxing your liver at the same time. But I'm constantly checking my blood work. So every three months I'm getting extensive blood work just to make sure that everything's okay, my organs are functioning properly.
- [27:01]
Amy
And at what point did you seek out the help of like an alternative medicine doctor? Did something major happen or was it just like you were looking for something more?
- [27:10]
Sandra Silverman
Right, I was just looking for something different. Not really. I started using alternative medicine doctors maybe eight years ago. I should have before we moved to Miami. I lived, I lived in Maryland and I did meet with a doctor and that's when they were telling about the compound pharmacies. And I was scared because I went on the Internet and did so much research on compound pharmacies and that really did scare me. But then once I moved to Miami, I met another alternative medicine doctor. I'm like, you know what, I'm just going to try it. I'm sure the pharmacies are fine. My ob GYN is holistic as well and I trust her. So I do get some of my supplements from her and her compound pharmacy. So the testosterone comes from her. So I trust her. So everything's fine. And then once I'd met Nadia, it's been amazing. Like she's so good. So.
- [27:58]
Amy
And how often do you check in with these.
- [28:00]
Sandra Silverman
So with Nadia. So with my ob gyn, just a few times per year. And with Nadia, I talk to her regularly.
- [28:07]
Amy
Yes. So it sounds like a lot of this stuff, and you mentioned this in the book, how everything started changing for you when you figured out you had to be consistent. And I think for a lot of us, consistency might mean something else. Like, sometimes I'm like, oh, if I worked out two or three times this week, like, I call it a win. But you're saying, like, no, I had, like, six days a week. I had to really commit. And do you feel like that was the case, like, as you've gotten a little bit older, you had to be more consistent? Or do you feel like that's something you should have done always?
- [28:35]
Sandra Silverman
I feel like I should have done it always. I just didn't train with the right people that could keep me motivated, and it's not their fault.
- [28:42]
Amy
Yeah.
- [28:42]
Sandra Silverman
Once I met Vanessa, she is the most disciplined person I have ever met in my entire life.
- [28:48]
Amy
She's your trainer?
- [28:48]
Sandra Silverman
She's my trainer. She works out every day. She has one cheat meal a week. So, I mean, imagine Michaels, like, one cheat meal. So she eats five meals a day. And her cheat meals could be, like, a slice of pizza or an omelet. So every Saturday evening. So after meeting her, I saw such a difference because I'm like, this woman can do it. I can do, like, a fraction of what she does. So that's when I really became consistent. But I feel like, for me, I needed an inspiration. So. And she was so inspiring to me with her discipline. So it's easier when you have somebody that you can really look up. Up to and you admire. I also, when I go on vacation, I take her with me virtually.
- [29:33]
Amy
Oh, my gosh.
- [29:34]
Sandra Silverman
So I don't. Yep. So a lot of times people will go on vacation for two weeks, but you start losing your muscle after two weeks. So I don't do that when I'm on vacation. We're training, and if I'm somewhere where there isn't a gym, I bring bands that you can. Or I'll train with my own body weight, but I don't skip sometimes. Like, but it's already scheduled in advance if I'm actually just absolutely not able to work out. But I really look forward to it. It was really hard when I had my accident recently. I stopped for a week, even though the doctors wanted me to stop longer. And I thought, okay, Vanessa, you can be creative, and let's come up with some workouts that work you can do.
- [30:11]
Amy
To move your body.
- [30:11]
Sandra Silverman
Yes. So that's what we've been working on.
- [30:14]
Amy
It's interesting that you mentioned that, too. Because I think the more that we're exposed to people who are taking their own advice and are doing the things that we aspire to do. Like, I find myself, when I'm interested in a topic or when I want to be consistent with something, I need to constantly be, like, consuming that content for interest. For instance, right now I'm like, really focused on. Focused on building muscle and like, increasing protein. So I try to listen to like a podcast from an expert every day because if I don't consistently remind myself about it, it just kind of like goes in one ear and out the other. So it sounds like being with her every day, just having hurt, like you said to look up to, and the constant motivation, like, keeps you on track. And I'm like, that kind of personality. I need that constant reinforcement.
- [30:54]
Sandra Silverman
It definitely does.
- [30:55]
Amy
But two hours at the gym, that's a long time. So what do you guys.
- [30:58]
Sandra Silverman
Yeah, two hours. The first hour is weight training. The second hour is all the lymphatic work.
- [31:05]
Amy
Okay.
- [31:05]
Sandra Silverman
And I know it sounds excessive, but I absolutely need to do that.
- [31:09]
Amy
And that's what you've prioritized? Yes.
- [31:11]
Sandra Silverman
So I. My day doesn't start until 12.
- [31:15]
Amy
Okay.
- [31:15]
Sandra Silverman
So whatever I'm doing throughout the day and I could work until 8:00 at night, that's fine. I just. My day does. I've made the supplements, the skincare routine in the morning, the working out, the lymphatic work, and getting all my protein in before 12 a priority. And it works for me. If I do it the opposite way, where I would change my workout schedule to five to seven in the night, in the evening, that wouldn't work for me because I would make up a million excuses.
- [31:43]
Amy
I can.
- [31:44]
Sandra Silverman
It's hard.
- [31:46]
Amy
Yeah. So what that second hour? So the first hour you're doing weight training. I saw in the book you mentioned she, like, has a program for you, so you work different muscle groups every day. But then that second hour, what does lymph, quote unquote lymphatic work look like?
- [31:59]
Sandra Silverman
So the lymphatic work we talk about in the book as well. So we're rolling my body the front side first one day and then the back side the next day.
- [32:09]
Amy
And it's like a foam roller?
- [32:11]
Sandra Silverman
No, it's. It's. Ashley Black is the company. And it's a.
- [32:16]
Amy
The fascia.
- [32:17]
Sandra Silverman
The fascia roller. So we use that. We use also the stainless gua sha from Face Gym.
- [32:23]
Amy
Okay.
- [32:24]
Sandra Silverman
And then we also roll with a derma roller. The wrinkles.
- [32:28]
Amy
Interesting. And do you feel like it makes a big difference.
- [32:30]
Sandra Silverman
I do. Because we're using a coffee. Is it like. Yeah, it's coffee or caffeine? I'm sorry? It's a caffeine. It's from Peru. It's a.
- [32:38]
Amy
Like a cream.
- [32:38]
Sandra Silverman
Cream. Yeah. So we use that. And I don't have any cellulite, which you mentioned that.
- [32:44]
Amy
And I want to first say that cellulite is normal. The majority of us have it. But when you said in the book that it went, like, pretty much went away, I was like, what? Like, I need details. Because, I mean, as someone in the industry, we're always looking for things to help us cellulate. There's been a number of things that have come on the market. None of them work well. None of them last.
- [33:03]
Sandra Silverman
Last.
- [33:03]
Amy
So you have to give us the details.
- [33:05]
Sandra Silverman
So they don't. They don't last. And I've tried everything. I've tried every injection. I've tried everything for cellulite. So my cellulite went away after we started doing the lymphatic treatment with the caffeine cream as. As at the same time with the protein, the extra protein intake and the weight training. So if you're able to weight train and stick to a protein diet, at least 100 grams a day, that makes a huge difference because you can be the skinniest person and have cellulite.
- [33:34]
Amy
Yeah, it's genetic.
- [33:35]
Sandra Silverman
It has.
- [33:35]
Amy
So many people have it who are. Who are very thin. And again, there's something wrong with it. It's normal, but for a lot of people, it is their pet peeve and something that they wish that they could address.
- [33:42]
Sandra Silverman
But with the protein, it really helped. With the extra protein, it helps reduce the signs of cellulite. And I probably have it underneath the skin. It's just not visible.
- [33:51]
Amy
That's amazing.
- [33:51]
Sandra Silverman
And I look at every single day. So there's a. We are in the room where we. Where we do the lymphatic work, and I'm looking in the mirror every day to make sure that there isn' a dimple. Now, if I do see something, I go to Denise, who does the threads, and she can inject filler in it.
- [34:09]
Amy
And that helps a little bit. Okay, I'm gonna ask you a little bit of a tough question. Do you feel like you're too hard on yourself?
- [34:16]
Sandra Silverman
Yes.
- [34:16]
Amy
Like, just hearing you say, like you're checking for a little dimple.
- [34:19]
Sandra Silverman
But I will tell you that I'm a lot better now. I think I was really bad before. And just any little thing that I noticed I'm like, I have to fix this. I'm better now. I stopped weighing myself, which was a big deal. So I was obsessed with the scale. And I've realized that the scale is going to fluctuate. So an entire week, it could. It could fluctuate 10 pounds, depending on your water weight or what you're eating, or if you travel the. If you flew, that sort of thing. So I was really obsessed with the scale. And I noticed that my daughter started doing the same.
- [34:53]
Amy
It's just going to ask you about that.
- [34:55]
Sandra Silverman
And once I noticed that, I was like, you know, this is really, really bad. Like, I'm not being the best influence on her. So I don't. I don't even own a scale now. Like, I'm not. I refuse to get on the scale. And I think that was. It's like, mentally so much better for me. But, yes, I'm definitely hard on myself. I'm trying. I'm getting better, though.
- [35:16]
Amy
Yeah, well. And it's also where we live, right? We live in Miami. We lit. This is just a. A town, you know, similar to other big cities, where aesthetics are kind of everything. And that's why I like that a lot of the things in your book are really tailored towards feeling your best. Because I think when we go into a lot of these things, whether it be procedures or some of the quote unquote biohacking things and weightlifting, protein, all of that, when we go into it with a mindset of I want to feel good too, I think it can help, like, round things out and help us be a little bit easier on ourselves. And like I said, there's nothing wrong with wanting to look a certain way, but I feel like it's easy to get lost into. And we have to remember, like, the goal here is that, like, we're happy and healthy, right? So the rest is kind of like the cherry on top, I think, at least I agree.
- [36:03]
Sandra Silverman
And actually, with the proper supplements, if you're able to inject yourself, like I inject a vitamin every other day, that has been so beneficial to my, like, just for my mental health. It's. It's really leveled me out in terms of, like, I have less anxiety because it has magnesium in it as well as some other vitamins, and that's been great. So I do that every other day. And that's an actual injection that's not subcutaneous.
- [36:31]
Amy
So you go to see someone.
- [36:32]
Sandra Silverman
No, I do it. I've learned it.
- [36:34]
Amy
They've taught you?
- [36:35]
Sandra Silverman
Yeah.
- [36:36]
Amy
So we talked a little bit about weight Training. One thing I wanted to touch on too, is that you don't drink alcohol. And you kind of. It sounds like from your book where you were doing this before I was tr. Trendy. Like, right now it's kind of on trend to be, like, super curious, they call it. Or cut back on alcohol. It's very, like, mainstream. But it sounds like it's something that you've been doing for a long time.
- [36:54]
Sandra Silverman
I've been doing it for a really long time. I mean, it was the biggest joke because I would go to dinner and drink hot tea. Now, if you're in a social situation where you were. I mean, I have been in social situations where I. I will drink recently, mostly not for the past three or four years. I'll drink tequila.
- [37:14]
Amy
Okay, so how often would you say you're drinking?
- [37:17]
Sandra Silverman
Not very often. Like, recently, I would say more because I've had a lot of friends in town.
- [37:22]
Amy
Okay, so you're not so hard on yourself that you can't enjoy.
- [37:25]
Sandra Silverman
Yeah.
- [37:26]
Amy
You're mindful about it.
- [37:27]
Sandra Silverman
But I did, when I wrote the book, I hadn't had a drink in three or four years.
- [37:32]
Amy
Wow.
- [37:32]
Sandra Silverman
Really long time.
- [37:33]
Amy
And what. What changes did you notice? Like, what do you think? That bad impact?
- [37:37]
Sandra Silverman
Like, my face was glowing and just so, like, I felt so much better because alcohol really. I really didn't feel well drinking. But I will tell you, recently, when I have had a drink, I'm fine because of the peptides. So I feel like now taking the peptides, if I did have a tequila, then I'm. I don't really feel it. Like, I don't feel hungover the next day. But mostly I don't drink. I drink hot tea.
- [38:02]
Amy
Yeah. And I think when you're investing so much time and money in everything that you're doing for your health, it makes sense because as you mentioned in the book, alcohol is literally a toxin. That's why it makes you feel drunk. So it's kind of like I think about that a lot with my own habits. Like, how much of what I'm doing, you know, to enjoy myself, whether it be sugar or alcohol, is kind of negating everything I'm working so hard for. So. And I see this a lot with my patients, like my Emmys. I've mentioned this on other podcasts. Will say, like, you know, in their little spiel they're giving me, before I see a patient, they'll mention, like, whether or not that patient has a quote unquote hard lifestyle, because you can see it on the face. And that's my key that in their social history, they do drink, they do smoke, whatever vape that whatever it may be. And we see that on the skin. So I mean, not to mention what it's doing on the insides. So I think it's important for people to kind of understand and make that decision, not just think that some of these things have no consequences when it comes to the way you look and feel.
- [39:00]
Sandra Silverman
Oh, they definitely do. People that drink excessively and smoke, they definitely look a lot older than their age.
- [39:06]
Amy
Yeah, absolutely. And it's been documented in study after study. But I think because it's so commonplace in our society, especially drinking, you know, not as much smoking anymore, but that was the case decades ago. We just think, oh, it's normal, it's. It's a part of everyone's life. And it's just, I think people almost think, like, how could I give it up? Like it's so ingrained in our culture. Right. But you can. And once you start to see how much better you're feeling, that's like all the motivation you need.
- [39:32]
Sandra Silverman
Yeah, you can def. I didn't miss it. Could definitely give it up. It's really not it really. For me, it wasn't that big of a deal, but it, it was a. Definitely a joke where I would be at dinner drinking tea. That's so funny.
- [39:43]
Amy
That actually helps me too. Like before, I would always have a glass of wine at home. Like, I loved it. That's how I wind down now for the past probably three years, I like hot tea. I like to try different types of tea. I get like loose leaf tea at the farmer's market. And if you make it like that ritual and bring some fun around it, it's. Yeah, it is, it is. You can replace those things with other things that are a little bit more healthy.
- [40:06]
Sandra Silverman
But the other thing is that I talk about in the book and Vanessa has taught, basically taught me this, that when you drink it slows down your metabolism by like 75%. So when you, if you're the type of person counting your calories and that's what I do for, to keep my calorie count low. I. That one glass of wine, that's 125 calories you have to double because your metabolism is slowing down so much. So that's 250 calories for one glass of wine. And if you're somebody that's eating or drinking 1500 calories a day, or for me, I do less then 250 for one glass of wine really isn't Worth it.
- [40:43]
Amy
Yeah. And I think people also forget, you know, the other downstream consequences, like, for instance, the sugar. If I have a glass of wine now, because I'm kind of out of that routine and my body's not used to it, I'll wake up at like 3am like, my heart is racing just because of the sugar impact on my body. And so you have that effect as well, you know, not just the calories. It's. There's so many things to consider, and a lot of times, when you really think about it, it's just not worth it. So we cannot round out some of the unconventional treatments without talking about the O shot. Because I was reading this last night with my mouth agape. Like, what? I've never even heard of this. So you have to tell us, what is this?
- [41:23]
Sandra Silverman
Okay, so the o shot. My OB GYN, Dr. Wallach, does that in her office. And I was petrified to do this. In fact, the day that I scheduled it, I almost didn't do the procedure. So they basically numb you. They take out. They take the blood from your body and they spin it like you would.
- [41:43]
Amy
For any pee procedure, like a prp.
- [41:46]
Sandra Silverman
But it's actually getting injected into your vagina. And it wasn't painful, but I was also really numb. I was scared because, I mean, there are potential side effects. For me, it worked out perfectly well, but it helped so much with vaginal dryness. So. And it lasts. It's supposed to last for a year and a half to two years.
- [42:08]
Amy
So so far you get it regularly?
- [42:11]
Sandra Silverman
No, no, no, no. So far it's been great. I got it last December, and so far it's been great. Great. But I was petrified. I. I almost didn't do it.
- [42:20]
Amy
Would you do it again?
- [42:21]
Sandra Silverman
Yes, for sure. And then once I did it and my results were really good, I will definitely do it again. And. But so many women my age complain about the same thing. Like they're. You know, the vaginal dryness is really.
- [42:33]
Amy
There's not a ton of option.
- [42:35]
Sandra Silverman
Right.
- [42:35]
Amy
And that's at least, like I always say when I'm using PRP on the face. You know, it's your own stuff. You're just linked to anything foreign, which is. Listen, the PRP uses are literally endless, apparently. Okay, so body work, fascia blaster, lymphatic drainage, you know, peptides, supplements, injectables. There's a lot that you do, and obviously it's not attainable for everybody. Time, money, resources. If there's a couple of things that you think are really worth it that you think people should prioritize. What would, what would you say if you could pick maybe one to two things that you think have been the most impactful?
- [43:09]
Sandra Silverman
I would say counting your calories, which is free, and working out even if you have to work out with your own body weight and doing it on your own. Because you could go on and look at different apps.
- [43:23]
Amy
Absolutely.
- [43:23]
Sandra Silverman
There's so many, there's so much. Or even get a few weights for your house if you. And you can just go online and use a personal trainer that way. Just an app. And then the supplements I think because your body like you to invest in like a nutrient test every even once a year I think is really helpful because most people don't know about their deficiencies. If you go to your regular doctor and they're doing a blood panel, they're not actually doing like a micronutrient test. They're they're just looking for like the basic vitamins.
- [43:55]
Amy
Flags you vital iv.
- [43:57]
Sandra Silverman
Yeah. And I feel like that's super important and that doesn't cost a lot. I know everybody can afford the peptides, but you can, most people can afford, you know this.
- [44:07]
Amy
Yeah, the vitamins. A couple of follow up questions. What is your holy grail skincare product? If you had to pick one skincare product to use.
- [44:16]
Sandra Silverman
So I really like Derma Maid, which you saw some of the products in your office. I really like that line a lot. And Elastin.
- [44:25]
Amy
Elastin. What of the like of those two lines which like, like.
- [44:28]
Sandra Silverman
Well the Elastin I just like using that kind of as like the moisturizer.
- [44:32]
Amy
The nectar.
- [44:33]
Sandra Silverman
The nectar. So I really like that and I like the Dermade. I like the whole line.
- [44:38]
Amy
The nectar, the elastic nectar is really great pre and post procedure. It's like one of my favorite.
- [44:42]
Sandra Silverman
Yeah, I really like.
- [44:43]
Amy
They also have the green one too. I don't know if you've seen it but I like that even better for like long term use. So like most of my patients, I'll put them on the nectar before and after the laser and then switch them over to the green one. It's even better for, for long term. What's your most underrated skincare tip or skin tip in general? Something someone can do at home that like isn't going to cost them any money.
- [45:04]
Sandra Silverman
The Jessner peel, have you heard of it? It's 14 on Amazon. And if you can't afford facials, it's the best thing that you can do. If you can do that once a week, it Stings. But if you can do that once a week or once every other week, you don't ever have to go for facial.
- [45:21]
Amy
Oh, wow. Amazing. And what's your skincare routine like?
- [45:24]
Sandra Silverman
It's long, really well in the morning, so I write about in the book. So it's probably like, if I'm using the Derma maid, it's about eight steps, maybe.
- [45:34]
Amy
Okay.
- [45:35]
Sandra Silverman
In the morning and then less at night. So maybe four steps at night. And then I'm adding in some of the creams that I've gotten from you. The. The Trenton, the tretinoid, and the, like, hydroquinone. The lychees?
- [45:48]
Amy
Yeah, for pigmentation.
- [45:50]
Sandra Silverman
But even with that, it's like everything comes back. So.
- [45:54]
Amy
Yeah, it really.
- [45:55]
Sandra Silverman
I think the spots go away.
- [45:56]
Amy
Important for people to understand about hyperpigmentation. It is a lifelong bab. Also, a lot of the hyperpigmentation we're starting to see in our 30s, 40s, 50s, is. That's been cemented since our teens and 20s. And so it's really a process of kind of getting ahead of it. It always will come back. So it can be really unfortunate. But. And you actually mentioned this in your book, that the hormonal therapy has made it worse as well. And that's absolutely something to keep in mind. You know, birth control, hormone replacement, a lot of times can flare a lot of this pigmentation issues. Last question. If you could tell your younger self one thing, what would it be?
- [46:33]
Sandra Silverman
Stay out of the sun.
- [46:34]
Amy
Stay out of the sun. Yes. Me too. Oh, my God, I cringe at my tanning bed days.
- [46:39]
Sandra Silverman
Oh, if I had to do it all over again, I never would have gone into a tanning bed. I wouldn't have been in the sun. It's been a lifelong battle with pigmentation.
- [46:47]
Amy
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Sandra, thank you so much for coming on. Where can everybody get your amazing book from Wholesal?
- [46:54]
Sandra Silverman
For now, it's on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, but it will be in stores soon.
- [46:59]
Amy
I was so excited. You had sent me the manuscript a little while ago, and as I was reading it, I was just like, this is really, really good and such a fantastic resource for somebody who is interested in this stuff, but not really sure where to start again, like, from a patient perspective. So you're not having to decipher from, you know, the expert whether or not it's. They're just trying to sell you something. Like, you've tried it all. You say what you like, what you didn't like. It's just very open and honest. It's. It's really fantastic. So thank you so much for sharing with us. I hope you all enjoyed today's episode with Sandra Silverman, the author of From Bullshit to Botox. We chat a lot about the procedures that she's tried in the past, including the CO2 laser, which is what she sees me for. But if you want more information all about her journey, you can, you can check out her book on Amazon. I've read it from COVID to cover and honestly I was so amazed at how well it was written. And just to hear her story from start to finish and to hear from someone who's so unapologetically is chasing certain goals and I think in today's society where we're all kind of meant to feel a lot of shame for seeking out vanity measures, she is completely unapologetic about that. So I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you did, please share to your stories and tag us Every week I like to pick a few people who shared about the podcast or left a review to send them a little goodie box of skincare. So as always, thank you for watching and I'll talk to you next week. Skin Thus.