Gemma Speg (5:54)

Well, firstly, that was the nicest thing I have ever heard. Like, I just felt. I like, yeah, I just am a little bit speechless. Thank you so much. That's genuinely one of the nicest compliments and especially from someone as talented as you. So I'm gonna sit with that for a second. But to answer your question, how did this start. To answer that question, I have to start with my mum. So my mom was a huge podcast fanatic. Before podcasts were cool. Like, I. I'm Australian, but for some reason, we were always listening to this American Life when we were kids. I distinctly remember listening, if any of your listeners know this, the David Sedaris story about when he was a Christmas elf when I was a child. And I just loved radio and I loved podcasts. And then I went through a breakup, and it was like my first real adult breakup and thought this man was the love of my life. And as I was grieving that and going through the motions, I had this idea just kind of come down from above. There's really no other way to describe it. And I'm sure as someone yourself who's very creative, you'll know what I'm talking about. An idea will just appear before you, and you'll be like, I have to make that. I have to do that. And it was just the psychology of your 20s. And I was like, you know what? The one feeling was like, if someone else did this, I would be devastated, because I think I can do this really well. And this is everything I want to talk about and I do talk about with my friends. So I just grabbed at it and I just started with nothing. I just had, like, my phone, and I would record in the back of my, like, Subaru Forester in my share house because my roommates were all too loud and I needed, like, a quiet place to record. And actually, if you listen to some of the early episodes, you can hear, like, birds in the background, because I was obviously outside in my car, like, recording this. So that's really how it began. And yeah, we've. I try and talk about as anything and anything. You know, I've had a mortician on. My friend's a mortician. She came on. I've had, you know, people who are spiritual, people who are deeply scientific, but also, just, like, any topic someone suggests. I'm like, okay, we can. We can find a way to do this.

Jessica (8:03)

And you seem to be, like, in research almost all the time. Like, you really are looking at the science of things. So tell me about your background with psychology. You have A bachelor's and a master's.

Gemma Speg (8:14)

So I don't have my master's because I was about to and the podcast took off. So it was this weird thing where I had to basically choose. But I'm like planning on going back to school soon. But I have two degrees. I have a Bachelor of Psychology and I also have a Bachelor of Politics, Economics and Philosophy. And I always thought that that's what I was going to do. I was going to work in public policy, I was maybe going to be a politician. I think my heart is a little bit too weak for that. So. So I did like a double specialization in psychology. I did straight psychology, no, nothing else for that degree. And then I worked in research and I actually worked in child maltreatment research and in interventions for children with severe mental health disorders. So I worked on creating programs for the government so that kids like who were having a really hard time and their parents didn't know what to do, they didn't end up in an emergency room, they didn't end up in a system that was hard to navigate. And as I was doing that, I was just building the podcast and then it just came to a point where I was like, I can take all of this and I can, if I just give this more time and it might be a risk, like I could really make this into my full time job. But yes, to answer your question, I love research. I love peer reviewed studies. I think I probably read 20 to 30 a week, probably minimum or some form of publication or article. Probably why I don't like reading self help books anymore. Like, I find that I can't do that in my personal life because, yeah, the research is just really where it's at, I think.

Jessica (9:44)

Well, I tell you as someone who's a hypnotherapist and has, you know, a model of the mind that I learned 30 years ago almost and one that is, let's just put it, you know, be honest. It's not, doesn't have like research scientific roots in it. It's what hypnotists have been saying about the mind for a long time. And I have had many people in classes that I' Todd say, no, this, this jives with what's actually happening. But when I hear you describe like the loops, you know, we get into from the limbic brain or like parts of the brain that are doing things, overriding things. And just your explanation of it for me as an extremely right brain person is so such a great balance. And like I said, I have a lot to learn from you. But I think we're both trying to help people by using their own minds to help themselves. And I love that.

Gemma Speg (10:39)

No, that's exactly right.

Jessica (10:40)

Kind of a yin yang.

Gemma Speg (10:42)

No, I agree with you. And I also, I'm a very deeply spiritual person as well. Like, that's something people don't always know. Like, I feel like I love the science, but also I really do see, like, the brain is a tool through which the soul exists. And so I always find that the more I understand about, like, my body and it is a vessel, the more I, like, feel connected to higher things. And so I really like when there's an intersection as well. Hopefully that comes through the podcast also.

Jessica (11:08)

It does, it does. And I think it comes through not only in what you say, but how you say things. There's a gentleness and a flow and a connection to yourself and a humility in it all that is, you know, I'm an old woman. I want to be grumpy at the 20s somethings. You know what I mean?

Gemma Speg (11:25)

Go for it.

Jessica (11:26)

I do stand up and I, like, make fun of young people, you know? So for me to be, like, seduced by your approach is really a great victory, I think, on your part, because you've gotten past what a hypnotist would call the critical faculty of the conscious mind and gotten beyond my defenses. So, yeah, so I. I think it's all there. I. One of my questions, which I don't think we wrote down, but what happens when you turn 30 and 40 and 50?

Gemma Speg (12:00)

You know what? That's a question I get all the time. I don't know. I. I'm in two minds about it, right? Because I don't want the idea that I had a 21 to end up being my whole life. But also it's kind of like, oof, you know, I've only got a few more years to, like, really do this or do I do the psychology of your 30s? I think some days I'm like, no, like, let's fully go and let's do every single decade, and let's just. This will be like a personal journal for people to come and look at. You know, it's going to be like, I'm going to bookmark every single phase of my life as a. As a guide. And then another part of me is like, no, when I turn 30, I'm going to do something completely different. I'm going to just completely maybe ghost everyone and just, like, say goodbye and leave the podcast as it is and never, never come Back to it. You know what? As I get closer, I've still got a few more years. I'm like, I feel the decision coming up, but I don't know. I'll see what feels right at the time.

Jessica (12:55)

Have you ever seen a set of documentaries by a director named Michael Apted called 7 up and then 14 up and 21 up? And he had a cohort of individuals in England that spanned all sorts of socioeconomic strata, and he interviewed them at 7, 14, 21, 28, 35, 42, all the way into their 60s. Did you ever see that?

Gemma Speg (13:21)

Okay, I have a feeling that I did, but I think it was when I was a little bit younger. Like, I have a distinct memory of one of the characters. Like, I think one of them was on the autism spectrum. I don't know why that sticks out. Am I right? Or is this a different thing?

Jessica (13:36)

I don't know that they necessarily called it that. Yeah, so that could have been the case. But that, you know, we haven't really used that vocabulary until relatively recently compared to when he started this, which was then maybe the 50s. Late 50s, yeah.

Gemma Speg (13:52)

It would have been a while ago. Right. No, I. I need to rewatch this. If even if I have. It's kind of like Boyhood, right? Is that the documentary where they follow someone again?

Jessica (14:01)

I mean, that was a movie and it spanned 10 years. Like, they filmed the movie when the kid was 7, all the way to 17 or something like that. But Michael Apted's documentary was really an experiment in how these people would evolve through the English class system from children. And, like, what were they thinking at 7 versus what are they thinking at 49 or 56? And he has died. Michael Apted died a few years ago, but I think he got all the way to possibly 70. Meaning the documentary went. Took them to their 70s, maybe could have just been 63. So it's actually more than one movie. It's like seven movies or 11 movies or whatever divisible by seven is nine. I guess I say that only because when you were saying it's kind of, you know, you could do the podcast in your 30s and 40s and make it this sort of diary of your life. I wanted to just let you know that that exists because it's kind of a version of the same thing.

Gemma Speg (14:59)

I think I need to go and watch this right now. Like, not right now whilst we're doing an interview. Bye. No, like, afterwards. Because that stuff fascinating me.

Jessica (15:07)

I would find it.

Gemma Speg (15:09)

Yeah, I think I would. I'm keen to rock to that. Thanks for the suggestion.

Jessica (15:12)

Yeah, of course. So tell us a little about your new podcast, Mantra. What are you doing there? What, what did you have another like, download from the universe that you should do it?

Gemma Speg (15:23)

In some ways, yes. But someone actually came to me with the idea and was like, you should really be doing this for ages. I was always asked, and it's funny, obviously I'm being on, being on sleep magic, but everyone was like, you should do a sleep podcast or some kind of affirmations podcast or whatever it is, because your voice is quite comforting. And I always was like, when time is right, maybe I'll do it. I'm very big believer in like, don't, don't rush the process. Don't rush something that isn't you're not ready for or your life isn't ready for. Even if that means saying no to things. It will come around again if it's meant to be for you. And this was one of those examples. And mantra is like, psychology of your twenties is very scientific and very research based and in the moment. And mantra is like, we take all that and we bring more deeper wise discussions. And it's kind of me using my philosophy degree a little bit more, which I'm glad I am because it was an expensive degree. I don't think people thought I'd make much money out of it. And now I'm like, oh, hopefully I can. But yeah, it's like taking all this wisdom and being like, this is the mantra that you need for the week. If you focus on nothing else, if you feel confused or lost, this is the thing just to, to anchor you. And throughout the week, if you are feeling angry and the mantra is, I cultivate peace, it might bring you back. If it is, I allow my friendships to evolve. It hopefully will give you the week to think about your friendships differently. And so it's just those like little bite sized nuggets that I think we all kind of need just a grounding moment, which I know you do as well. And I feel like people are so hungry for it in a world that is just so full of just stuff that wants to grab their attention. It's like, listen or don't listen, but like we're just gonna ground you here and then we're gonna let you move forward and that's all we ask.

Jessica (17:03)

Amen. I mean, we are humans embodies having an experience through a body, not just a brain, as you know, as anybody. And we're so enticed lately to just bleed all our energy into this Digital void and to lose our sense of self, because the sense of self is like a continually sort of curated, evolving thing as well. So to lose sight of that, or worse, never even connect with it deeply in the first place, I think is such a. Would be such a painful experience. So, yeah, I love that what I do and what you do is like, just bring people back to themselves and what they do with it, you know, we have no control over. But that's. To be human is to be in oneself, I think.

Gemma Speg (17:55)

Yeah, absolutely. I'm full agreement on that.

Jessica (17:58)

Great. Well, I have another question based on a recent episode you did. It was about self help and how people can sort of, can we go too far with self help? And I loved the premise of this episode because we all have this hunger to evolve and to make our lives better, but are we doing it sometimes in ways that could even hurt us? And I just want to ask you, like, can you just give us a little snack version of that episode in terms of why we go for self help and some of the guardrails we should have up around it?

Gemma Speg (18:35)

I love that you point you've picked out that episode. That's probably my favorite episode I've ever done in what now? Like, 330, 40 episodes. That one really stands out to me. The episode is, can self, self help, self improvement go too far? And what I was, obviously, I work in the self improvement space. I have a self help book, I have two self help podcasts. So when I was doing it, I was like, oh, if I drew this well, people might not listen to me anymore. Oh, that's a little bit of a. That might, you know, create a little bit of conflict to me. And I was like, no, I've been thinking about this so much. We have been kind of sold this idea that to be a good human, you have to be constantly striving for more for yourself in a way that is visible to others. So you need to be more productive, you need to have more output, you need to be healthier, you need to run faster, whatever, like faster 5k times. You need to have a more efficient morning routine, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And yeah, actually I do a lot of things that help me improve in those areas. But then there's a point where you go too far and it can make us quite selfish people when the only individual we're thinking about and the only thing we're trying to optimize is our own lives and we're not thinking about things that can't be optimized. You know, you can't optimize friendship, you can't optimize love, you can't optimize your relationship with nature or your relationship with the deeper core parts of yourself. You have to just actually live through them and experience them. Or that's kind of what I've realized so far in my kind of short life. And also it can make us care less about our community and the structures and systems around us if the only person at the end of the day who matters is us and the only person whose performance and wellbeing we focus on is our own. There's also this other element that self improvement with anything that a lot of people are attracted to has been co opted by people who want to make a lot of money out of it and who don't always have the best intentions and who sell us products and things and ideas that are just like dripping with fakeness and dripping with like, yeah, they're just not, they're just artificial, but they hope that we buy them and they are really great at selling them to us. And I feel like you get to this point where people, and I've heard this from people where they're like, I've read all the books, I'm listening to all the information, my morning routine is spectacular. I'm taking all these vitamins, I'm doing all these things and I still feel like crap. It's like, yes, because maybe none of that was actually authentic. Maybe none of that stuff actually needed improving. And so that's just a very high level peek into, into this discussion that we get into, which is what, what is the line? Because self improvement is great. We all have a desire to self actualize, but there is a point where it can become quite harmful. So I'm glad you, you enjoyed that episode. What was your kind of takeaway from it? Did you have something that kind of stood out for you?

Jessica (21:28)

I think it was, you're saying quite decisively the idea that too much self help does cause us to spend so much time reflecting on ourselves that that can re pattern us to not necessarily be paying enough attention to the outside world. I'm, you know, part of my background is the macrobiotic diet and way of life and it's all based on a Taoist sort of framework. And the idea that there's this paradox inherent in being human, which is we do have selves, we are running through individual systems, but we're part of a collective and they're both equally important. And one of our jobs as human beings is to strike a balance between Those two things that, that works now, no balance has ever struck and just flatlines. You know, it's a dance. But we do have a dance with our families, with the world, with our homes, you know, with our towns and our cities and our countries and with the world itself. And the more we are able to clean up our own vessel, the better energy we can put out into that collective. But I think that's the point of cleaning out one's vessel is that you become a more responsible, healthier creator in a bigger world. So I just love that and that you nailed it. I think people are afraid to kind of say that like, oh, so and so is so into self help that they're not my friend anymore. You know what I mean? Or whatever.

Gemma Speg (23:02)

My gosh. Yeah, or like you make you like, optimize your day so much that there's like no room for spontaneity. And so like your friend invites you to the movie and you're like, no, sorry. Like, well, those like casual social moments and just like casual moments of spontaneity and joy are so important. Like you. You cannot neglect them. And listen, like, I've done it before and I think the thing I have with, with people is I always say, if you don't agree with this, I actually think that's amazing because it means you formed your own opinion on it and that's great. But this is just like my experience. And yeah, some people didn't like that episode, but I was like, that's great that you're thinking about it enough to not like. It means that you've like formed your own opinion from a. Yeah, I'm like, that's actually the second best response I can get is like, you really don't like what I'm saying.

Jessica (23:45)

Interesting. Yeah, yeah, well said. Well, speaking of what people think, I have some questions here from listeners, so if you're game, I'm going to just go with the first one.

Gemma Speg (23:58)

Let's do it.

Jessica (23:59)

Her name is Megan and she says, is it okay to be in a season where you're not pushing forward, not manifesting or hustling, just resting? I keep feeling like I should be doing more, but what if I'm just tired?

Gemma Speg (24:13)

This is so funny that you've asked me this question because I'm in this moment right now where I just turned down like this huge opportunity in my life because I was like, that is a recipe for burnout. And I cannot tend to the other things in my life if I just keep pushing every single organism, life form in this world has moments of rest. There is autumn, there is winter. There is hibernation. There is periods where the flower, you know, kind of has to fold into itself to bloom again. Every single. Every single part of nature and life has this. And yet when it comes to us, we feel like we're not allowed to do that. We're perhaps excluded from that need to reset. So, yes, I. Honestly, personally, I think it's so crucial. And the times that I think I'm most miserable in my life, and I don't know about you, Jessica, or you, Megan, but the times that I feel most miserable is when I just, like, I'm pushing and pushing and pushing because I feel like I have to prove something to someone else. And then you will eventually get to a point where you're like, do I even want this life? Like, did I even want this situation? Like, no one forced me into this situation, into this state, but it was my own desire to, like, somehow prove something that led me there. So rest. So crucial to not fall into that trap.

Jessica (25:31)

I think I agree. And I would say, Megan, I think it's great that you're tuning in to the idea that maybe you should be slowing down. That's key to knowing when to do it. And I couldn't agree more about nature being a model for that. Nature is my big teacher. So rest, Megan. Rest. Next question. Simone says, I'm 30. Why is it so hard to accept that I'm not where I thought I'd be by this age? I keep comparing myself to everyone else and feeling like I'm falling behind, even when I know that's not helpful.

Gemma Speg (26:07)

This is a question I get all the time from people who are 18, people who are 45. I. I have some really amazing friends. I'm going to brag about my friends. I have some friends who are spectacular, like, the most incredible people I've ever met. One of them is, like, a law student at Harvard. Some of them are, like, winning freaking awards and doing incredible things. Some of them are doctors. They still. All of them say the same thing. I feel like I'm not where I should be. And I think about them, and I think about even older mentors and people in my life who feel the same way. And I'm like, comparison is really what's fueling this. And comparison is not a ladder. It's a circle. You're comparing yourself to other people who you think have more in some certain area, who are comparing themselves to another group of people who have more in another certain area, who are comparing themselves to you. And we just go round and round and round and we never feel satisfied if the only validation we get is from whether we compare to someone else whose life is actually completely different to ours. I think we tend to think again of comparison as this ladder where there is ultimately someone who has it all together and who is the best at something and who. That's where we should aim to be. No one has that. Literally no one. That's why I gave the example of the people in my own life who I'm sure many people assume do. And even if they have it, they don't have it for very long. Like something is always going to fall apart. So the advice I guess I always give to people who ask me this question is just. It's so difficult to not compare. If you. Sorry, I need to say this succinctly because it's important. It's so important not to compare, but also to recognize that you are further ahead in certain areas than you think you are. And also, there is no race. I always ask people, what's this finish line that you think you are going across? In my mind, the finish line is like, okay, great, I've achieved everything. Now I can die. I've achieved everything. That's it. Surely you want to hold off on that for a little bit longer. You will get there when you get there and just experience the journey. Everyone just racing towards having everything. What you get there and then you have the next 50 years of your life to what, break it all down, down and build it up again or, you know, you're meant to be in a state of evolution and you're meant to be like, equally as discovering as you are achieving and succeeding. But, yeah, I feel for you. I feel you.

Jessica (28:33)

Beautiful answer. Beautiful. I just want to say, from a hypnotherapist point of view, like, we talk about the imagination being a sort of inner projector that's constantly paving a path. Like, we always imagine things before we do it. Like I say to people, you know, I'm sure you listened. I mean, no one listens to radio anymore, but, well, people who listen to us who don't know what we look like, they form an image of who they think we look like. And then they actually see us. And it's never exactly what you saw in your mind, and sometimes it's radically different. And the mind has just been throwing up an image because that's what the mind does. So we've done it for relationships. We do it in our jobs. We. We are constantly projecting some sort of outcome. And it never matches up completely. Never. And as often, like, I've written books where, you know, I have this huge bestseller. I see it, I feel it, I'm reading it. And then the slog of writing the book is this entirely different experience. Or it's just like, one paragraph at a time. And the universe has its book, which it writes while I hold up this vision. So we do that for our lives, and everyone does it, and everyone is disappointed, is how I would say. And the disappointment is a small D if you can understand why it's happening. But I love your circle in comparison. It's painful when we get into that loop.

Gemma Speg (29:58)

Oh, my God. Absolutely every loop is right. It's, like, fun for a little bit. It's like a roller coaster. And then you're like, I kind of want to get off now. Can I get off? And it's like, oh, no. You have to forcefully eject yourself. Get.

Jessica (30:10)

The loop is painful.

Gemma Speg (30:11)

Yeah, it really is.

Jessica (30:13)

Yeah. That could be a mantra. Get off the loop. All right, next question is from Kirsten. I keep hearing about healing your inner child, but what does that actually mean in practice? Like, what does that look like in a normal Tuesday afternoon moment when I'm triggered and spiraling?

Gemma Speg (30:30)

So funny. We were just talking about this, weren't we, Jessica? Before I got on this call, well, before we started recording, guys behind the scenes peak, we were talking about Disneyland and how I want to go to Disneyland or Disney World or whatever it is. I love talking about this, even though sometimes I feel like I'm still a child. Maybe that's why I'm. Maybe that's why I like talking about it. There are a couple ways that we can think about this. So healing your inner child is. It's a deeply psychological thing. It's a deeply spiritual thing, has a lot of roots in Jungian psychology and philosophy. The basic premise, just to give you a little bit of overview, is that every single past version of you, they don't disappear. They're still within you. All those memories that you had, all those times that you were hurt in the past, just because you are no longer in that form or no longer that childlike version of you, the pain continues. But the good thing is that also the joy that you experience as a child and that sense of simplicity also continues and is within you. And you can kind of face the kind of despair and cruelty of the world sometimes by tapping back into the part of you that maybe didn't know about this stuff and that was uncomplicated by Responsibility. And also on a deeper level, you can never undo trauma, but rethink about your trauma and rethink about how your trauma shows up in the present by tapping into how the person who experienced that, the version of you who experienced that, deserved to be treated. So on a Tuesday afternoon when you're feeling triggered, it's just basically choosing compassion over critique. How would your inner child like to be treated in this moment? Imagine it's not you, but it's a five year old, five year old you who was being really disappointed in this moment, who has been hurt by something a co worker said, who is angry because, you know, someone pushed them on the playground, someone cut them off, you know, on the freeway, on the highway. How would you, as a parent to your inner child best approach them in this moment? Would you approach them from the way that perhaps you were treated as a child, where they were criticized or they were told to shut up, or they were denied self expression, or no one was there to comfort them? Or would you do it in a new way, in a way that you can deliberately try right now, which is sitting with that version of you and going, you know what? That is really hard. Let's go for a walk. Or like, okay, let's go do something special now, because that's actually what would make you feel good. So it's really treating yourself with compassion and innocence and stepping into joy rather than criticism and harshness and cruelty towards yourself that inner child healing is meant to represent. I don't know, Jessica, did I do it? Do a good explanation? Can you fill in the gaps for me?

Jessica (33:08)

Well, it's funny, I love your explanations of everything and like I said, they bring more context to my understandings. But hypnotherapy has a very specific relationship with the inner child per se. And a lot of hypnotherapy is childhood regression. So in hypnosis, because what we call the subconscious mind doesn't really understand time or space, we can slip into those previous sort of, what I call rings of the tree, like those previous iterations of ourselves deep inside. And because the wounding happened on more of a subconscious level, meaning it happened, it was like body level and sort of deep. When we go back to that place in a hypnotic trance, we can actually release the tension and the pain and the trauma. So to a hypnotherapist, it's all healable. And we do that by sort of rescuing that inner child. It seems sort of cartoony in the moment, but it's actually when you do it from this Profound relaxation. Very, very effective because the body doesn't want to hold that stuff. It doesn't want to hold the pain. Our next question is from Anonymous. How do you teach yourself to value small joys in life when your mind frequently tells you that you don't deserve them?

Gemma Speg (34:40)

Oh my gosh, that's actually quite a heavy question. When you, when you breach the surface of that, you know, you think it's like, oh, I could give you some like, advice of being like, yeah, just like practice makes perfect and like just lean more into it. And I don't actually think that's the solution because I think what it is is a self worth problem. I'm sure you know the value of small joys. It sounds like you, you, you know it so well that you want it more. I think this is a situation where you really need to deeply dive into why you feel a lack of self worth, why you don't feel like you deserve them, why perhaps the big things are always the ones that take priority. Why you perhaps are constantly putting off your own joy for other people. Where did that come from? And it's funny that we were just talking about the inner child when that probably has a lot to do with what's happening below the surface. The thing is, I probably am not going to go any further with advice because I think that's something that therapy would just be so helpful for. And I don't have the information from you about why that probably is, but I think everyone has, everyone has something that makes, they think makes them unlovable or makes them not deserve what other people have. And it's so unique. You'll find like I hear stories all the time. I've had thousands of stories of this and no one's, no one's reasons are ever the same. So I wish you the best of luck with that and I'll just tell you right up, up front, like, I don't even know you, but you absolutely do deserve small choice. Even if you're, even if you are a terrible person, which you're probably not, you still do deserve it. And I can just make that promise to you right now. And hopefully that's kind of like the first permission slip you get on this long, long journey.

Jessica (36:17)

I love that. You know, I'm, I, I in my recent years have decided I don't believe in deserving. I think it's a concept that puts a lot of pressure on the inner self. It's like we're just energy events in a natural world. Like you can let energy in and you're letting energy out. And I'm not saying that, you know, someone who commits a heinous crime doesn't deserve to go to prison, that there aren't reasonable cause and effects in the universe. Obviously there are, but I think the more we saddle ourselves with some idea of deserving that can become this rabbit hole that it's like, okay, where is balance? Who deserves what? Does Elon Musk deserve to be the richest man in the world? Like, I don't know, I don't even want to get into the concept. It's more like, what are my limits around receiving? And I just want to say to this listener, everyone has limits. Whether it's around receiving or around giving or around love, or around how much they're willing to learn or how much they're willing to do. Like, to be human is to have lim limits as we grow. So to not judge yourself too much and maybe just go easy with the idea of deserving. And if you take deserving out of the equation, how do you approach this? Just an experiment.

Gemma Speg (37:40)

Also, can I say one other thing that I saw the other day? It was this quote that was like, the universe isn't greedy. Like, there isn't. You know, there isn't so much love and great stuff to give out. Like, it's not greedy. It's not like you. And having joy is taking away from someone else's joy. Unless you're like doing something brutal and terrible. Unless you're like a literal, like serial killer. Like, it's not like you're taking it from someone else. And I think when we say deserve, it's like, do I deserve this more than the next person? It's like, yeah, but the next person could have just as much like, you know what I mean? It's really like a question of fairness and justice as well. And I love that you mentioned Elon Musk because I had this whole spiral a couple of months ago where I was like, what's the point of being a good person of people who are terrible get away with, get whatever they want, you know, like Jeff Bezos and like Trump and Elon Musk. I'm like, got these terrible, terrible men and they're having these million dollar weddings in Venice and they're being celebrated. And it was like, okay, well, I actually like really shifted something in my own brain when I was like, God, like, maybe I'm more deserving if that guy gets that. Like, maybe I should get some more. Maybe I should be asking for more. You know, it's yeah, you really like that question? It's like, looks shallow on the surface, and then it's like you get into concepts of, like, justice and fairness and, like, existentialism. So, um, surprisingly, very deep question.

Jessica (38:59)

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Anonymous. Okay, next is from another Anonymous. I've been a massage therapist for almost 22 years. But over the past year, I've been dealing with joint and muscle pain that doctors haven't been able to fully explain yet. I'm starting to face the possibility that I may not be able to keep doing this work, and I have no idea what comes next. How do you find direction or meaning again when something you've built your identity around might be coming to an end?

Gemma Speg (39:28)

Okay, I'm gonna give you a documentary to watch. And I think that's where I'm gonna leave it. It's called An Accidental Life. And I watched it on the plane and I was sobbing and I. I felt a renewed sense of spirit. It follows this woman called Quinn, who was a professional, incredible rock climber, and she falls and she paralyzes herself. Like her entire identity is built around activity and being outdoors and being able to scale huge rock faces faster than any other person in the world. Any. Anyone. And that's all gone in the blink of an eye. And I think you can learn from that more than I could ever say, you know, ever give you advice on. It's just absolutely profound and kind of sounds similar to what you're going through in a way, and just a different plane, you know?

Jessica (40:15)

I love that. I also think, again, going back to nature as a teacher, freaking caterpillar spins a weird cocoon and then melts and becomes like a butterfly. Like, transformation is the order of the day in nature. So it can be uncomfortable and discombobulating and a time of needing support. But we are meant to transform. And even if we don't do it in a career trajectory, although many, many people do, we're doing it throughout life. I mean, we started as a two cells, you know, and now I'm, you know, what they. You know, I'm in middle age. I never thought I'd get here. I don't know how to be this version of myself, but I'm allowing nature to move through me and create what it needs to create. So maybe instead of looking at what you think you should be doing to really listen to what you know. You said it earlier, Gemma, like, you gotta download about this podcast. Like, I'm meant to do a podcast. And I've had the similar things with books. I've written like, very much a signal that I'm supposed to do something. And so as a massage therapist, you're probably a deeply intuitive person. And it's like, be in the listening and it's probably scary, but there's, there's information in there. Nature doesn't stop. Just like, it's not greedy, it's abundant. It'll show you the next thing.

Gemma Speg (41:39)

Yeah. And also like, good luck with, with the pain and the chronic pain as well. One of my aunts is a bone therapist. I don't know if you know what that is. And like, and my grandfather was. And I know when he couldn't do that, it was very difficult, but he did find something else as well. You can learn a lot of lessons from people in your life, I think, but yeah, that must be really hard. Just want to send. Send some love your way, send some healing.

Jessica (42:02)

Thank you. I have a couple questions that are aimed more at me, but I want to hear what you have to say about them. I, I often mention my sister. I have three sisters, so I mentioned all of them in different contexts. But I've said that one of my sisters is really good at manifesting. And it is true that whenever she's needed a job or whenever she needs like a thing, she just, boom. She can make those things happen really quickly. And someone's asking, what do I mean by that exactly? And first of all, with respect to my sister personally, she has a history as an athlete, so she has this tremendous discipline that I do not have. It takes me three days to forget my goals. You know, like, I can hold a goal in my head for three days, and unless I have some sort of support group or system to remind me of it, forget it. But my sister has this laser beam mind around her goals, so that's a factor. But really, ultimately, at the end of the day, manifesting in the way that she does it is about enticing herself to feel good, good about things. Like, let's imagine a job that feels good. Let's imagine a relationship that feels good. And she's trained her nervous system to keep steering towards these, like, positive experiences, not driving them there, but just inviting herself there. And I think, first of all, as her sister, I've watched her entire life turn around. Having done this the day she took responsibility for her own reality, realizing, no matter what anyone else is doing, I'm in charge of how I feel. When she really got that message and she began playing with it, I think it's a key to all manifesting for everyone, whether you practice it every day, once a week. You forget it for a month at a time. Doesn't matter. That's kind of the message. She just happens to do it with really, a lot of discipline. Daily. Daily repetition. But do you have something to say about that?

Gemma Speg (44:00)

You know what Manifesters, the good manifesters. I have a sister who was also. She is currently a professional athlete. She is. I know she's the same. And I'm like, there's. There's something about their mindset that's, like, freakish. Like, I don't know how she does it even. Like, we'll be up shopping, and she'll be like, I really. I really want a winter coat. And I want this. Like, I have this vision in my mind of, like, a beautiful suede quote. And, oh, it's got this and that, and it's just gonna feel so warm and, wow, wouldn't it be lovely if I found something like that? And then she'll find it. And you're like, how. But I think it's because they're so, like, tuned in to, like, visualization and, like, if I want something, I have to really, like, live it and breathe it. It's like, it's the. You know how there's, like, the book, the Artist's Way. We need, like, a book called, like, the Athlete's Way that talks about that mindset. Maybe your sister could write it if she wants. If she wants a book idea, she can take it. But, yeah, I like the way that you described that. I need to get better at manifesting, slash, thinking about it more. But like you said, maybe I'm just in that period of time, just kind of simply existing and waiting for something to come to me that I. That I really want.

Jessica (45:06)

Well, they call it the law of attraction for a reason. And I just want to say I feel like we're stepping sort of gingerly on a line we were discussing before about, you know, having expectations of one's life and having them not show up at the rate that you thought they would. I just want to say about my sister, she's a great manifesto, but. And she can do things like your sister, where she's like, I see pearl earrings and ba ba ba boom, and someone gives them to her. But at the same time, she's open to. She's got her vision, she feels good, and often the situation is not in lockstep with the vision. It's even better. Like, she allows herself to continually expand for, you know, what's being offered up, and she rolls with that because I think when we get very locked on, oh, I see it, it's gonna come. It's gonna come exactly like this. That, that doesn't allow enough wiggle room for the actual energy to move.

Gemma Speg (46:07)

Yeah, I agree with you, actually. Like, when you hold too tightly to something, it's never going to happen the way you want it to. I actually have this theory that I've had since I was like maybe 18, that if you, if you like. And I developed it when I was dating and now I'm with someone, like, I found like this beautiful person, but when I was dating, I'd always think, you know, if I imagine my life with this person and I have this whole 15 step, 15 year plan for how this is going to turn out after I've already been. Only been on like five dates with this person, it's never going to happen because in some reality that already exists and the universe doesn't like to repeat itself. Right. So if I've already imagined it, if I've already imagined everything turning out the way that I want it to, it's never going to happen. Because again, like, the universe wants to be creative and I've already created that in my mind. So sometimes, like, I would really struggle with that where I'd be like, oh, I don't cling too tightly. Don't cling too tightly. But the thing is, is that then you get surprised and then like something amazing happens and you don't realize that all along that was actually kind of manifesting. So, yeah, it's so. My God, you could do a. Do a million episodes on this. That's why there are entire podcasts like that. Talk about manifestation and how to just do it so well.

Jessica (47:17)

Well, it's back to the sort of Taoist yin and Yang of things. You know, we need enough Yang to have a vision, but you need enough yin to allow and to receive. And that's a balance in every person. Certain practices like meditation is holding a vessel, holding a yang vessel and allowing your inner world, your mind, your subconscious mind, your spirit to kind of flow within that vessel. So, you know, balance, Balance. Okay, this is the last question, the last official. No, it's not. Okay, it is our last official question. This is from Hallie. Sometimes my brain decides that it doesn't want to go into relaxation anymore. And I have periods where I'll try to listen to sleep magic and still can't relax. This is on and off. And I wonder if you have any advice for these nights where I still can't turn my brain Off. It feels like I need to hit a reset button, but can't quite figure it out. Well, I just want to say I completely relate to this, Hallie. When I first got into hypnosis, I got hypnotized by hypnotherapist to quit smoking. And he made a recording of the session. And I would listen to the recording, like, sometimes more than once a day for months. And I kept feeling like he was doing this sort of trickery that flipped some switch in me that allowed me to go to this place. And sometimes I would listen to the tape and I wouldn't feel that switch flipping. But over the years, what I've realized is that I'm doing the flipping of the switch. There isn't actually a switch, per se. It's just me inviting myself to relax. And when my body relaxes, my mind relaxes. Gemma, do you have a response to this question?

Gemma Speg (49:03)

Yeah. Because I used to have terrible insomnia. And my dad used to always say to me, like, if you're worrying about falling asleep, wake up. Like, get up. He was like, you may as well go and do something else. Like, you sitting there and worrying is actually going to make it worse. So now if I can't sleep, I get out of bed. I'm like, there's no point associating my bed, even with the idea that, like, I of, like, not being able to rest. And I won't say it's not. Like, if I can't fall asleep in five minutes, I'm. I'm up. It's like, if I start worrying about if I'm in bed and I'm like, I can't fall asleep. I can't fall asleep. I can't fall asleep. I'm like, okay, so maybe I'm not meant to be asleep yet. I'm gonna wake up and I'm gonna go and do something else. And then when I feel tired, I'll come back. And because I used to get. I used to have the anxiety about not being able to sleep, and then I couldn't sleep more. And so I was like, I don't want to put the anxiety in my sheets. Like, I don't want it to rub off on this space. So, like, if it's not working, it's not working. Get up and go and do something else. Go and, like, do some Sudoku. That's my go to for my insomnia. I have, like, a Sudoku book with me at all times. I have one in this hotel room with me somewhere. Probably multiple or just have something that, yeah, just lets you, like, do something that your mind can just get into and then you can come back to it. But that's my tip. I loved yours as well, Jessica.

Jessica (50:15)

Gemma, thank you so much. It's been a great pleasure to talk to you. I'm so grateful you exist and grateful that you're doing your work in the world. Let my listeners know where they can find you.

Gemma Speg (50:28)

Yes. So I have two podcasts, Mantra and the Psychology of your 20s. You can find them wherever you listen to podcasts. I think if you love the sleep magic, you're obviously going to love Mantra a whole lot. And then you can also follow me on Instagram at Gemma Speg, Gemma with a J. If you want to tune into what I'm doing behind the scenes, I just.

Jessica (50:49)

Want to send you, like, the best vibes forever into your 30s and 40s and 50s, because I know you will only be more and more rich and full and be offering more to the world. So thank you for talking to me today and thanks for doing what you do.

Gemma Speg (51:06)

Thank you. Thanks for all the compliments. I feel like I'm writing. Feel like I'm utterly, like, luminous walking out of this chat, and thanks for having me on as well.