Slow Burn – “Cold Call”

Podcast: Slow Burn
Host: Christopher Johnson (Slate Podcasts)
Episode Date: July 1, 2020

Episode Overview

In this special bonus episode, “Cold Call,” Slow Burn host Christopher Johnson brings listeners a unique look behind the scenes of the season focused on David Duke's political ascent. The episode weaves together first-hand archival audio, personal interviews, and commentary to illuminate how individuals confronted Duke's racist ideology. Christopher spotlights the extraordinary actions of 12-year-old Joanna Burnett, who cold-called Duke for a school project, and features candid reflections from Holocaust survivor Ann Levy and journalist Eli Saslow. The episode explores the challenges of covering extremist figures, the dangers of providing them a platform, and the enduring relevance of white nationalist rhetoric in America.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joanna Burnett’s Cold-Call to David Duke

Timestamp: 01:30 – 08:30

• Setting the Scene

  • In 1989, as former Klan leader David Duke ran for Louisiana state office, 12-year-old Joanna Burnett noticed the pervasive media coverage and chose Duke as the subject for her social studies fair.
    • “I remember it was almost every single day there was coverage on this former Ku Klux Klansman who was running for office in an American city.”
      — Joanna Burnett, 01:30
  • Joanna, who is Black, found Duke’s phone number in the white pages and arranged a phone interview using her parents' speakerphone and a tape recorder.

• The Interview

  • After several calls, Duke answers directly.
  • Joanna begins asking Duke straightforward, probing questions about his election and his Klan past:
    • “How do you think you got elected?” — Joanna Burnett, 02:58
    • “Okay, but… Okay, you say you’re not like, you know, like a bigot anymore.” — Joanna Burnett, 03:07
    • Duke denies ever being a bigot or a “racialist,” calling himself a “white civil rights activist.”
      • “No, I don’t. I call myself a white civil rights activist because I believe in equal rights for everybody.”
        — David Duke, 03:19
    • Joanna asks about removing Duke from the legislature, his use of slurs, Nazi affiliations, and even personal matters like his marriage. Duke deflects or denies each.

• Aftermath and Harassment

  • Joanna’s parents ask her to send Duke a thank-you note. Duke publishes her letter and address in his white nationalist newsletter, leading to Joanna receiving disturbing letters from white supremacist prisoners.
    • “I received at least three letters that I remember from prisoners... brown hair, blue eyes, and, you know, they’re Aryan.”
      — Joanna Burnett, 07:25
  • Joanna reflects, questioning whether she should “be letting David Duke tell me this,” highlighting her early critical thinking about giving extremists a platform.

2. Journalism’s Dilemma: To Platform or Not to Platform

Timestamp: 08:54 – 10:00

• The Platforming Question

  • Host Christopher Johnson considers the risks and responsibilities of interviewing extremists.
    • He references Tom Snyder’s chummy 1974 TV interview with Duke as a moment when national exposure allowed Duke’s views to spread unchecked.
    • “Snyder introduced Duke to a huge new audience, and I don't think he understood the gravity of that choice. The 37 year old late night host wasn’t as prepared as the 12 year old Joanna Burnett.”
      — Christopher Johnson, 09:35
  • Johnson explains his decision not to interview Duke for the series, emphasizing that Duke remains “congenitally dishonest,” intent on manipulating the record, not genuine discourse.

• Ethical Reporting

  • The show commits to representing Duke’s views for context but refuses to hand him an uncontested platform:
    • “His core beliefs— that black people are inferior to whites, that the Holocaust never happened— don’t deserve to be debated. And so on this podcast, we’re not going to hand him the microphone.”
      — Christopher Johnson, 10:00

3. Ann Levy’s Confrontation and the Evolution of Anti-Duke Activism

Timestamp: 13:32 – 15:25

• Ann Levy’s Story
  • Ann Levy, a Holocaust survivor and family friend of Johnson, recounts repeatedly confronting David Duke at his public appearances.
    • “I told him, I walked in, I said, Stan, guess what’s on the radio? David Duke’s on the radio. And he turned around and says, okay, go get him. And so I went where he was speaking.”
      — Ann Levy, 13:36
  • Levy describes how Duke actively avoided her, wanting to distance himself from his past while campaigning.
    • “He was portraying himself as one thing and we knew his history as something totally different. How could you get him to get away with that?”
      — Ann Levy, 15:02
  • Ann’s persistence contributed to the broader anti-Duke movement and exposed his hypocrisy.

4. The Modern Face of White Nationalism – Eli Saslow’s Perspective

Timestamp: 16:08 – 18:30

• Echoing and Evolving Rhetoric

  • Washington Post reporter Eli Saslow discusses how Duke and his godson, Derek Black, worked to “rebrand” white nationalism using coded language and grievance politics.
    • “I think the scary thing… is the realization that that audience is massive in the United States. Polls… show that about 40% of white people… believe that they suffer more discrimination…”
      — Eli Saslow, 16:08
  • Saslow warns of “false white grievance” and its ability to sustain racist ideas under a populist veneer.
    • “There’s a wide sense in the country that this is a white country and that white culture is the priority, and that’s because our history bears out. That’s what we’ve been. And reconciling with these white supremacist ideas means reconciling with what this country is foundationally.”
      — Eli Saslow, 17:19

• Dangers of Underestimation

  • Saslow describes white nationalism as numerically small but increasingly organized and dangerous, especially as online radicalization leads to real-world violence.

5. Artistic Interpretation – Topher Grace on Playing Duke

Timestamp: 18:49 – 20:31

• Researching Duke for ‘BlacKkKlansman’

  • Actor Topher Grace shares the discomfort of reading Duke's autobiography (“My Awakening”) in preparation for portraying him in Spike Lee’s ‘BlacKkKlansman.’
    • “I read My Awakening, which was just a terrible experience… It's just every page is like, you know, you’re like… I’m pretty sure [gravity] does exist. Just me sitting here is evidence of it.” — Topher Grace, 18:49

• On Duke’s Power to Manipulate an Audience

  • Grace observed that Duke’s charisma allowed him to “change the temperature of the room”—alarming evidence of how white nationalist rhetoric could find mainstream traction.
    • “...He changed the temperature of the room. They were listening to him. And I thought, oh man, this guy is a different kind of evil. Like a new form of racism.”
      — Topher Grace, 19:48

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joanna Burnett, on her confusion interviewing Duke:

  • “Like, I mean, he's saying I should get the book Race and Reason and you should learn and listen to both sides of an argument. Yes, but should I really be letting David Duke tell me this?”
    (08:30)

• Christopher Johnson, on platforming extremism:

  • “I'm doing this series because I think the Duke phenomenon warrants close scrutiny and because the ideas he espouses are still with us and still dangerous. But Duke the politician is not currently a threat ... Talking to him now would serve no one's interest but David Duke's.”
    (10:27)

• Ann Levy, on confronting Duke:

  • “How could you get him to get away with that? A lot of people spoke out. I never thought I'd made such a big impression, but I guess I did.”
    (15:18)

• Eli Saslow, on enduring white nationalism:

  • “There’s a wide sense in the country that this is a white country and that white culture is the priority, and that’s because our history bears out. That’s what we’ve been.”
    (17:56)

• Topher Grace, on the insidiousness of Duke's charisma:

  • “He changed the temperature of the room. They were listening to him. And I thought, oh man, this guy is a different kind of evil.”
    (19:48)

Important Timestamps

• 01:30 – Introduction to Joanna Burnett’s story and her decision to call Duke
• 02:21 – Joanna’s recorded interview with Duke begins
• 03:36 – Joanna’s reaction to interviewing Duke
• 07:25 – Joanna describes the aftermath and harassment
• 08:54 – Christopher Johnson on the ethics of interviewing extremists
• 13:32 – Ann Levy describes her confrontations with Duke
• 16:08 – Eli Saslow analyses modern white nationalism
• 18:49 – Topher Grace on preparing for his role as Duke in ‘BlacKkKlansman’
• 19:48 – Grace on Duke's manipulative presence in public settings

Summary

“Cold Call” is a profound and unsettling exploration of what it means to confront and report on hate, both as a journalist and as a private citizen. Through archival tape and intimate interviews, the episode examines how individuals of different generations have challenged David Duke and white nationalism—offering crucial insights into the dangers of platforming extremist views and the persistence of those ideologies in American society. The episode’s original voices, including a brave 12-year-old, an indefatigable Holocaust survivor, and incisive observers of racism’s modern face, together illuminate the ongoing struggle against hate and the power of asking hard questions.