Slow Burn – Season 4, Ep. 2: "Robe and Ritual"

Podcast: Slow Burn (Slate Podcasts)
Host: Josh Levin
Date: June 17, 2020
Theme: The Early Rise of David Duke and the Rebranding of White Supremacy

Overview

This episode of Slow Burn delves into David Duke’s transformation from a campus provocateur at LSU to a slick, media-savvy leader of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1970s. Host Josh Levin explores how Duke, by appropriating and refashioning the symbols and rituals of the KKK, tried to rebrand white supremacism for a new era, moving it from the fringes of violence toward mainstream politics—while remaining rooted in the Klan’s tradition of hate. Through first-person interviews, archival audio, and pointed narrative, the episode traces Duke’s rise and its wider implications for American political life.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. LSU in the Early 1970s: Collis Temple Jr. Breaks Barriers and Encounters Duke

• [01:04–04:40]
  • Collis Temple Jr., the first Black basketball player at LSU, describes his integration into a hostile environment and daily racism.
    • Quote — Collis Temple Jr.: “Some of my social outlet, candidly, in terms of who I communicated with the most, were actually people who cleaned up the dorm... and the people who cooked.” (03:14)
  • "Free Speech Alley" on campus becomes a hub for heated debates, including those about race and civil rights.
  • David Duke emerges at LSU as a campus agitator, delivering openly racist, antisemitic speeches to anyone who will listen—or shout back at him.
    • Quote — Collis Temple Jr.: “He’d be out there talking about why Jews and niggers should not be a part of our society… that’s basically what it came down to.” (04:18)
    • Temple frequently confronts Duke directly.

2. Free Speech Alley: The Showdown

• [05:14–07:30]
  • Kali Joseph, moderator during this period, recalls the atmosphere: supporters and detractors alike could take the soapbox—no voice was censored.
    • Quote — Kali Joseph: “He was given his opportunity because, you know, our motto was fair play. We have to give people a chance to speak.” (05:43)
  • A black student responds to Duke’s “master race” rhetoric by cutting his own finger, urging Duke to compare their blood—a gesture Duke refuses to engage with.
    • Quote — Joseph describing Duke’s reaction: “He obviously wanted to cut his finger… and I think he even said, ‘We’ll see that you bleed. You and I just bleed the same.’” (06:11)
    • Duke’s later dismissive response: “rats have red blood too.”
  • While Duke claims to have captivated audiences, Joseph insists he was “not popular… and he was spewing out hate.” (07:16)

3. Building a Network: Duke’s White Nationalist Road Trip

• [07:30–09:27]
  • As an LSU student, Duke seeks kinship among national Nazi and white supremacist groups.
  • Travels and bonds with Joseph Paul Franklin (later a violent spree killer) and Don Black (future founder of Stormfront).
    • Quote — Elise Hu: “They not only saw that their ideas were widely spread, they saw that it was possible to have their ideas and live a successful life… that’s something they all took back to Louisiana with them.” (09:15)
  • Each would take a different path—Franklin turning to murder, Black to online organizing, Duke seeking public platform and celebrity.

4. Rebranding the Klan: From Hoods to Suits

• [10:27–15:42]
  • Duke invents the "Knights of the Ku Klux Klan" (1973), leveraging the infamous brand for personal gain.
    • Quote — Josh Levin: “Duke figured that the KKK name would serve as a kind of tailwind for his career as a professional racist. He was right.” (15:12)
  • Leverages media appearances, most notably on NBC’s Tomorrow with Tom Snyder, presenting himself as articulate and respectable in a suit:
    • Quote — Tom Snyder: “At 23 years old, I’m told that you are the youngest grand Dragon in the United States of America.” (15:42)
    • Duke: “That’s right.”
    • Snyder: “Do you feel uncomfortable with your sheet off tonight or…?” (15:47–15:51)
    • Duke: “Oh, I feel okay. You feel uncomfortable in your suit?” (15:51)
  • Snyder’s easygoing style allows Duke to steer the conversation toward white grievance, minimizing the KKK’s history of violence.
    • Quote — Duke: “The white race has been one. It’s a forgotten majority, you might say.” (17:18)
    • Snyder: “Would you take part in a lynching?”
      Duke: “Well, I wouldn’t take part in one now…. I think, in some cases, it might be justified.” (17:38–17:57)

5. Chasing Controversy: South Boston and the Power of Public Anger

• [20:04–24:38]
  • Duke attempts to exploit racial tensions around school desegregation and busing in Boston.
    • Quote — David Duke: “In the 60s, we had freedom rides of the blacks… today we have a reverse of that. We’ve got white freedom rides north, and our people are aiding our white brothers and sisters in Boston to fight against this tyranny.” (21:59)
  • Despite minimal support, Duke finds audiences hungry for his provocations at rallies.
  • At a Southie rally, after riling up the crowd with racist hate speech, Duke collects membership payments—a sign of both the business and performative aspects of his Klan leadership.

6. A Larger Tent: The Political Ambitions of David Duke

• [24:58–29:31]
  • Duke organizes large Klan rallies, incorporates women and Catholics into the organization (departing from old Klan traditions).
  • Runs for the Louisiana State Senate (1975) as an open white supremacist, getting a third of the vote in a white affluent district.
    • Quote — David Duke campaign ad: “Let’s elect David Duke, Senator, District 16.” (27:54)
  • Inspired by civil rights organizing, he directly compares his movement to that of Martin Luther King, even claiming, “If I’d been born black, I would have been Malcolm X.”

7. Debate with Jesse Jackson: The Mainstreaming of Hate

• [29:31–34:16]
  • Duke debates Jesse Jackson on Chicago TV, presenting white nationalism as rational and “nonviolent.”
    • Duke: “I don’t want to suppress anybody, and the Klan is not trying to put anybody down. What we’re trying to do is allow each race to be masters of its own destiny…”
    • Jackson: “The genius of America is an experiment… that suggests people of many nations, many races, will… learn to live together…” (31:40)
  • Exchange grows heated and personal:
    • Jackson: “Blacks make cotton cane and we hold tobacco row and we raised your children when you were too trifling to raise your own.” (32:24)
    • Duke: “If that’s what makes America, then we’re going to have to give the horse the right to vote…” (32:42)
  • Jackson’s warning: “As more white people develop economic anxieties… their fears can be played upon by demagogues.” (33:11)
  • Jackson closes: “Blacks are not afraid of the Klan anymore. They can wear hoods or wear suits, they can burn crosses or baths. We’re not afraid.” (33:44)
  • Duke gives out his address on TV, presenting himself as approachable and open to “debate.” (33:58)

8. Stall and Reinvention: Duke Leaves the Klan

• [34:30–43:22]
  • By the late 1970s, Duke’s influence plateaus; his electoral performances stagnate, and the Klan remains unpopular (10% approval rating in national polls).
    • Journalist Bertha Gaffney Gorman’s 1978 encounter with Duke reveals a deeply insecure, angry man clinging to grievance.
      • Gaffney Gorman: “He would not look me in the eyes. One of the things… is that his feet, his legs kept moving.” (36:05–36:25)
      • “Black people destroyed the education system, they destroyed the economy, they destroyed the automobile industry. You name it, black people destroyed it.” (36:39)
    • Duke is accused by fellow Klansmen of womanizing, theft, and selling membership lists for cash.
    • Exposed in a sting by rival Bill Wilkinson (an FBI informant), Duke is forced out of his own organization.

9. Attempting a Mainstream Makeover: NAAWP and Beyond

• [43:22–44:37]
  • Duke launches the National Association for the Advancement of White People (NAAWP), a calculated attempt to mimic and counter the NAACP while discarding the Klan’s violent imagery.
    • Historian Lance Hill: “By 1980, he realized that… the racist movement had to lose the robe and the ritual.” (43:22)
  • As Reagan’s presidency adopts many dog-whistle themes, Duke’s radical rhetoric loses traction.
    • Joe Klein: “Once Reagan came into power, ... it just sucked all of the fuel out of the radical right wing movement.” (44:11)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Collis Temple Jr. on Duke at LSU:
  “He’d be out there talking about why Jews and niggers should not be a part of our society. That’s basically what it came down to.” (04:18)

• Kali Joseph on Free Speech Alley:
  “He was given his opportunity because… our motto was fair play. We have to give people a chance to speak.” (05:43)

• David Duke, on TV with Tom Snyder:
  “Well, I wouldn’t take part in one now. I think that wouldn’t do the organization much good if I went to jail for 40 years. I think that in some cases it might be justified.” (17:38–17:57)

• David Duke, rally in Boston:
  “Our people are aiding our white brothers and sisters in Boston to fight against this tyranny.” (21:59)

• Rally in South Boston:
  “Duke was wearing a suit, not a robe and hood. But on this night, he wouldn’t play the part of the well scrubbed Klansman… And then he screamed the N word.” (24:58)

• David Duke’s Political Ambition:
  “Let’s elect David Duke, Senator, District 16.” (27:54)

• Jesse Jackson, debating Duke:
  “Blacks are not afraid of the Klan anymore. They can wear hoods or wear suits… That’s the point—we’re not afraid.” (33:44)

• Bertha Gaffney Gorman, on Duke’s manner:
  “I was not very impressed with him… He literally was halfway out the door before he came back and asked for the money to pay the parking. The parking was $1.25.” (37:10)

• Lance Hill (Historian):
  “By 1980, he realized that… the racist movement had to lose the robe and the ritual.” (43:22)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:04] – Collis Temple Jr. recruited to LSU
• [04:18] – Temple recalls Duke’s hate speech
• [05:14] – Kali Joseph and Free Speech Alley
• [06:11] – The bloodletting confrontation
• [10:27] – Formation of the Knights of the KKK
• [15:42] – Duke’s TV debut with Tom Snyder
• [20:04] – Context of Boston racial tensions
• [24:58] – Southie rally and Duke’s open bigotry
• [27:54] – Duke’s State Senate campaign
• [31:21–33:44] – Duke and Jesse Jackson debate
• [36:05] – Bertha Gaffney Gorman’s interview with Duke
• [43:22] – Transition to NAAWP
• [44:11] – The Reagan effect on Duke’s movement

Closing Thoughts

This episode traces Duke’s transformation from a college bigot to a would-be national politician—and the way he tried to use imagery and media to legitimize white supremacy. It spotlights how hate can be mainstreamed, recast, and made media-friendly—without ever shedding its roots. Through poignant interviews, archival confrontations, and sharp analysis, “Robe and Ritual” exposes the machinery behind the public ascendance of American racism in the late 20th century.