Slow Burn Presents Decoder Ring | Cozy Autumn Mysteries

Date: November 5, 2025
Host: Willa Paskin
Guests/Voices: Don Martin, Carolyn Super, Simcha Levyadun, Suzanne Renner, Grace Dewey, Lauren Tarr, Malcolm Gore
Theme: Exploring the comforting, quirky traditions and seasonal products that define autumn in America, through the lens of three mysteries: the changing taste of the Pumpkin Spice Latte (PSL), the science behind autumn leaves turning red, and the elusive, beloved seasonal cookie: the Malamar.

Episode Overview

This episode of Decoder Ring dives into the stories behind three beloved autumnal signifiers: Pumpkin Spice Lattes, vibrant fall foliage, and Malamars—the marshmallow-and-chocolate cookie only sold half the year. Through engaging discussions with scientists, foodies, and brand insiders, host Willa Paskin untangles these seasonal mysteries, revealing how some traditions are newer and stranger than we assume, and what their popularity says about our culture, anxieties, and the nature of tradition itself.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Pumpkin Spice Latte: A Modern Autumn Ritual with a Tangled Backstory

• The Rise of the PSL

  • The PSL debuted in 2003 as an attempt to replicate the success of Starbucks’ Peppermint Mocha. Unexpectedly, it became synonymous with fall, selling hundreds of millions of drinks and spawning a tidal wave of pumpkin spice-flavored products—everything from cereal to even toilet paper.
  • "[The PSL] became a lifestyle phenomenon." —Willa Paskin [03:19]

• Cultural Impact and Ritual

  • PSL’s arrival is now a widespread seasonal ritual, marking the true start of fall for countless fans.
  • "Need to pull out my knee-high boots... get that pumpkin spice latte, like, to celebrate the changing of the seasons." —Don Martin [04:17]

• The Taste Controversy and Reformulation

  • By the mid-2010s, controversy arose as fans insisted the drink tasted different than they remembered. Many blamed a Starbucks recipe change.
  • The real shift came after a viral campaign by food blogger “Food Babe” (Vani Hari) in 2014, which exposed that PSLs contained no real pumpkin and included potentially problematic additives. Starbucks responded by reformulating the drink in 2015 to include pumpkin puree and drop artificial color.
  • "Food Babe specifically said, do you know what isn't in the pumpkin spice latte? It’s pumpkin." —Don Martin [10:53]
  • "And so since 2015, the PSL is indeed not the same PSL that America first fell in love with." —Willa Paskin [13:10]

• A Broader Symbol: Food Fears and Misinformation

  • The PSL's journey mirrors wider anxieties about “unnatural” ingredients and media-fueled scares, prefiguring trends in online skepticism and misinformation.
  • "We present a problem people didn’t even think that they had... tell people not to trust... it's a breeding ground for misinformation." —Don Martin [13:53]

• Notable Quote:
  "I think all of the headache of the pumpkin spice latte eventually made me break up with it. Like, maybe, maybe we don't need everything to be pumpkin spice." —Don Martin [15:25]

2. The Mystery of Red Autumn Leaves: Science, Debate, and Wonder

• Popular Science vs. Complicated Truth

  • Leaves change color in fall because trees pull chlorophyll (green pigment) out of their leaves, revealing yellow and orange pigments that have been there all along. But red is different: the pigment (anthocyanin) is newly synthesized just before leaves fall.
  • "But it does not explain why a leaf would turn red. Because the red pigments are not there all year." —Willa Paskin [21:00]

• New Theories: The “Bug Spray” vs. “Sunscreen” Debate

  • In the early 2000s, biologist W.D. Hamilton suggested that red leaves acted as a warning to pests (especially aphids), deterring them from attacking the dying leaves—an “anti-herbivory hypothesis.”
  • "Hamilton figured... maybe autumn leaves were a communique too. Maybe the trees weren’t just inadvertently putting on a show... maybe they were defending themselves." —Willa Paskin [24:13]
  • [28:19] Simcha Levyadun: “The red says, pay attention, red is danger.”

• Pushback and Alternate Explanations

  • Botanist Suzanne Renner is skeptical, noting that aphids don’t care about leaves in autumn; they're looking to overwinter in bark.
  • Renner’s research found a geographic link: red-leafed trees are more common in sunny eastern North America than in Europe. She suggests red coloration is “sunscreen” produced to protect leaves from excess light while the tree reclaims nutrients.
  • "Having this sunscreen... would allow you to pull back the nutrients for a little longer, maybe seven days longer." —Suzanne Renner [33:14]

• A Multilayered Mystery

  • Simcha Levyadun and others propose both explanations can coexist: red pigment might defend against both excess sun and certain pests—a “multi-tool” for trees.
  • "You have a tool. Why not use it for several functions?" —Simcha Levyadun [34:29]

• Memorable Moment:

  • Willa and arborist Malcolm Gore stroll through Brooklyn’s Prospect Park, marveling at the colors—noting how the debate doesn’t trouble the leaves themselves, which simply “keep doing their thing.” [35:20–36:53]

3. The Case of the Elusive Malamar: Scarcity, Nostalgia, and the Power of Seasonal Marketing

• What is a Malamar?

  • A nostalgic, marshmallow-and-graham cracker-cookie enrobed in chocolate, Malamars have been a specifically autumn treat in the Northeast U.S. for over 100 years.
  • "They look kind of like brown hockey pucks. And Grace finds them totally irresistible." —Willa Paskin [40:20]

• Scarcity as an Event

  • Their return to grocery store shelves each fall is an annual event for devotees—many of whom stockpile boxes for the “off season.”
  • "Once I discovered that, I got as many as I can... I stockpile them in my pantry." —Grace Dewey [42:34]
  • The cookie has garnered a cult following, featured in pop culture from The Golden Girls to The Sopranos.

• The Real Reason for the Season

  • Officially, Malamars are sold seasonally due to their thin real-chocolate coating, which can melt or “bloom” (turn white) in heat. While this was once an unavoidable problem, modern production and distribution means they could, in fact, be sold year-round.
  • “We have the technology to be able to ship the products full year around.” —Carolyn Super, Malamar Brand Manager, Mondelez [49:26]

• The True Motive: Manufacturing and Marketing

  • Mondelez’s enrobing lines (which cover cookies in chocolate) are rotated between products, so space is limited. But more importantly, scarcity itself is now the selling point. Seasonal sales keep excitement high and consumers obsessed.
  • "I think a lot of the fad and the excitement is that they aren’t available year round." —Carolyn Super [51:44]

• Malamars' Genius: Accidental Scarcity Marketing

  • Their “outdated” production strategy matches today’s hottest consumer marketing trends, like limited sneaker drops—making their reappearance feel momentous and urgent.
  • "By not changing their sales strategy for a century, Malamar’s has ended up with the most cutting-edge way to sell anything right now... built around scarcity." —Willa Paskin [54:16]

• Core Insight:

  • If you could buy Malamars all year, you might not love or crave them nearly as much.
  • "That is part of the fun. Most definitely part of the fun. You can't get them every day, so it's very special when they do come out." —Grace Dewey [54:16]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the PSL Cultural Shift:
  "Could you have ever imagined the cultural shift that happened when Starbucks debuted the pumpkin spice latte? Like, just the obsession. Wow.”
  —Don Martin [01:59]

• On Food Fads and Fueling Misinformation:
  "We present a problem people didn’t even think that they had... it's a breeding ground for misinformation, disinformation, and for a whole host of other things."
  —Don Martin [13:53]

• On Autumn Leaves' Science and Wonder:
  "Why would a tree bother to do this right before its leaves are about to drop anyway? ...You don't put money in it before you dump it."
  —Simcha Levyadun [22:34]

• On Red as Plant “Sunscreen”:
  "Having this sunscreen... would allow you to pull back the nutrients for a little longer, maybe seven days longer."
  —Suzanne Renner [33:14]

• On Malamar Scarcity:
  "We were the trendsetters."
  —Carolyn Super [53:28]

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• Pumpkin Spice Latte's Cultural Rise & Reformulation:
  01:59–15:40

• The Science (and Debate) of Red Autumn Leaves:
  18:14–36:53

• Malamar Mysteries: Scarcity, Marketing, and Tradition:
  39:59–55:05

Takeaways

• Autumn traditions, while seemingly timeless, are often newer and stranger than we remember—shaped by marketing, debates over “authenticity,” and the surprising power of collective nostalgia.
• The PSL’s evolution mirrors larger cultural anxieties about food, authenticity, and information in the digital age.
• Even the scientific “truths” behind natural wonders, like why leaves turn red, remain a subject of lively debate and new discovery.
• Scarcity, whether intentional or accidental, powerfully fuels desire and tradition—whether with cookies or coffee.

This episode is a cozy, thought-provoking journey through the quirks and comforts of the season—perfect for anyone who loves fall, questions traditions, or just wants to know why some cookies are so hard to find.