Slow Burn – “Gays Against Briggs | The Story Behind Our Cover Art”

Date: July 26, 2024
Guests: Silvana Nova (activist, cover art subject) & Larry Hermson (activist, artist/photographer)

Episode Overview

This special “Slow Burn: Gays Against Briggs” bonus episode delves into the story behind this season’s cover art—a powerful poster created in 1978 to fight the anti-gay Briggs Initiative. Host (not named in the transcript) interviews Silvana Nova (the subject, raising a fist in the image) and Larry Hermson (the poster’s creator) about San Francisco’s queer “street queen” subculture in the 1970s, the mainstream gay movement’s tensions, and the urgency—and resonance—of queer activism, then and now.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Arrival in San Francisco

• Larry Hermson details leaving conservative Boston where apolitical vibes in early gay spaces frustrated him, spurring a move west after discovering radical queer activists (03:12).
• Silvana Nova shares escaping Florida and conservative Atlanta for San Francisco, lured by stories of freedom and creative culture (04:09).

2. Drag, Gender Expression, and “Genderfuck”

• Silvana describes drag in San Francisco as integral, daily, and boundary-pushing, not about passing as women but “fluid before fluidity happened” (05:21).

  “No matter how we presented, we didn’t want to identify ourselves or put ourselves in a box of any kind.” – Silvana Nova (05:42)

• The style was experimental—“wear dresses over jeans, hairy legs, Doc Martens”—challenging both gender norms and gay mainstream aesthetics (05:19).

• Larry notes drag wasn't about passing: “I’m going to wear whatever I damn well please. I don’t care if it’s supposed to be for men or women. If it fits and I like it, I’ll wear it.” (06:52)

3. Mainstream Gay Movement Tensions

• The “clone culture” of the Castro (masculine, uniform style) often excluded gender nonconforming and drag folks; some gay bars even banned drag queens (09:19).

  “We were all very visible… we were kind of outcasts… Do you think we were outcasts?” – Silvana Nova (07:18)

• Political groups reflected diverse, fractious ideologies—Marxists, anarchists, goddess-worshippers, and more. The movement was anything but monolithic (10:41).

4. Creation of the Iconic Poster

• Poster Description: Black background, big pink triangle, Silvana emerging from the triangle with raised fist (12:48).

  “Never Again. Fight Back.” – Poster text (12:52)

• The pink triangle’s meaning (used by Nazis to mark gay prisoners) was not widely known at the time. Larry added an explanatory byline to educate (13:28).

  “I wanted it to be educational… I sort of thought of Silvana as, like, the most radical queen that I knew.” – Larry Hermson (13:43)

• The shoot: Silvana posed in “revolutionary drag,” with elements like a plaid shirt, jeans jacket, lavender-star beret, scarf—and initially, a knife (removed for being too violent) (14:55; 16:19).

• All poster production was analog—photography, “stat camera,” and press-on letraset letters (16:53–18:16).

5. Distributing the Poster & Gender Politics

• The collective sold the poster to benefit the anti-Briggs campaign.
• Memorable story: In a separatist women’s bookstore, staff asked Larry whether the subject was a man or woman—he wouldn’t say. They accepted it for sale anyway, highlighting both the desire to fight Briggs and fluid boundaries in queer presentation (18:58–19:55).

6. Symbols, Legacy, and Enduring Power

• Pink triangle vs. rainbow flag:
  • Triangle: Historic, “stronger and more visceral… more political” (22:15–24:05).
  • Rainbow: Social, inclusive, “more benign.”
• The poster is cited as a precursor to ACT UP’s visual style (“Silence = Death”). It’s now part of archives including the NY Public Library, Harvey Milk terminal, and still comes up at auctions (24:30–25:58).

  “It’s been surprising and gratifying because it was almost 50 years ago, and I’m really glad that it still speaks to people.” – Larry Hermson (25:14) “It does speak to how universal and timeless the message is… it doesn’t look dated at all. Yeah, I’ve dated, but it hasn’t.” – Silvana Nova (25:45)

7. Resurgent Backlash & Activism Today

• Both guests lament seeing anti-queer, anti-trans narratives resurface—echoing the dangerous rhetoric of the Briggs era (26:32).

  “Didn’t we learn any lessons?… The only thing I can do is fight back.” – Silvana Nova (26:32)

• Yet, they retain optimism:

  “It’s always like, you go uphill a little bit, then go down a bit… but the curve is going up… You just have to keep doing it and hoping you’re pushing the needle a little bit.” – Silvana Nova (27:48)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On “Genderfuck” style:
  “It was fluid before fluidity happened.” – Silvana Nova (05:21)
• On mainstream respectability policing:
  “Before one of the gay liberation parades, they told us to clean up. Of course, that just prompted us to be more outrageous.” – Larry Hermson (07:49)
• On fighting exclusion within the gay community:
  “We were pretty much excluded from clone culture. And there were bars that didn’t allow drag queens in.” – Larry Hermson (09:11)
• On being an outcast and embracing it:
  “I mean, we can’t hide it, so why should we?” – Silvana Nova (09:40)
• On the rainbow flag vs. pink triangle:
  “The rainbow flag is more about inclusiveness… Whereas the pink triangle… is a lot more stronger and more visceral and historical.” – Larry Hermson + Silvana Nova (22:15–22:56)

Essential Timestamps

• [02:30–05:46] Guests’ arrival in San Francisco & drag beginnings
• [06:41–09:19] Street queen style, exclusion from “clone culture”
• [12:42–16:53] Conceiving, shooting, and designing the poster
• [18:58–19:55] Selling the poster and navigating gendered spaces
• [22:15–24:05] The symbolism of pink triangle vs. rainbow flag
• [25:58–28:41] Reflection on today’s backlash and ongoing activism

Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode is candid, witty, and deeply reflective, grounded in Silvana and Larry’s matter-of-fact embrace of their radicalism:

“Maybe you need to pose for another poster.” – Interviewer (28:41)
“Let’s come up with a new one.” – Larry Hermson (28:45)

Their joy in resistance and continued optimism is evident, even as they confront contemporary threats. The “Fight Back” message endures, visually and politically—a testament to the timelessness of queer resilience and creativity.