Podcast Summary: Slow Burn – "Gays Against Briggs | Tribeca Festival Live Show"

Date: July 15, 2024
Host: [A] Slate Podcasts
Featured Guests: Eric Marcus, Deray McKesson, Sam Feder, Esther Falick
Event: Tribeca Festival, New York City

Episode Overview

This special live episode of Slow Burn brings together a panel of luminary guests for a wide-ranging conversation on LGBTQ history, activism, visibility, and humor. Marking the end of the "Gays Against Briggs" season, the discussion revisits the battleground of the 1978 Briggs Initiative—a pivotal anti-gay campaign in California—and draws connections to contemporary struggles for queer and trans rights. The show weaves in first-hand stories, heated activism strategies, hard-won lessons, and a standout comedy set from Esther Falick, offering listeners insight, inspiration, and laughter in equal measure.

Key Segments & Discussions

1. Introduction & Context (00:03–04:38)

• Host introduces the panel and contextualizes the Briggs Initiative: a 1978 California measure that would’ve banned queer people and their supporters from public schools.
• The initiative galvanized an unprecedented coalition in the gay rights movement, kickstarting the sophisticated organizing seen in the decades since.

Notable Quote

“It really was kind of the beginning of this organized, politically sophisticated gay rights movement that we know today.”
—Host [A], 03:50

2. Eric Marcus on Queer History & Movement Divides (04:38–25:43)

Coming Out in the 1970s (06:09)

• Eric recalls how Anita Bryant’s anti-gay activism unintentionally prompted his own coming out.
• Shares a moving story:

  “I was so angry that this person, Anita Bryant, who sang the Florida Orange Juice Song, was saying such terrible things about me... It felt like she was talking about me.”
  —Eric Marcus [D], 06:30

Movement Divides & Generational Differences (09:07)

• Describes profound splits within the movement: politics, race, gender, and generational divides.

• Elder gays, often closeted, distrusted the visibility-and-liberation focus of younger activists.

  “They could never have gotten their jobs. And so here we are, a new generation, and we’re saying, ‘Come out, it’s okay to be out.’ And it wasn’t okay for them. It really wasn’t.”
  —Eric Marcus, 09:53

• Challenges the myth of a unified movement:

  “I've had many young people say to me over the years, ‘Why can't we all work together the way we did in the old days?’ And I think, ‘What old days are you talking about?’ LGBTQ people have never... I mean, on rare occasion, we've unified.”
  —Eric Marcus, 11:41

March on Washington, 1979: After Briggs (13:26)

• Outlines how the defeat of Briggs paradoxically undercut momentum for a national march, seen as “not as urgent.”
• Shares the five core demands of the 1979 march—many still unmet today ([17:08]).

The Enduring Legacy of Briggs (21:25)

• The campaign’s defeat “showed we could win”—with limited resources, little infrastructure, and not much in the way of national support.
• Draws hope but also parallels to today’s anti-LGBTQ backlash:

  “We've been here before, we have won before and we can win again. And the haters... every time they do this, they bring out another generation of young people who say no and fight back.”
  —Eric Marcus, 23:10

3. Deray McKesson on Protest, Movement Storytelling, and Power (25:54–46:54)

The Function and Power of Protest (26:42)

• Protest as “telling the truth in public” and forcing society to reckon with hard truths.
• Memorable anecdote of pushing back on President Obama about rhetoric around protestors ([27:35]).

Protest vs. Structural Change (28:14)

• Protest is the “beginning of the solution, not the solution itself.”
• The real win is structural change; protest is the catalyst.

The Value of Storytelling in Movement Work (29:25)

• Key to persuasion: “the aunts and uncles”—everyday people who aren’t already activists.

• On messaging: use relatable entry points instead of leading with highly politicized language ([30:48]).

  “Do you need a person with a gun to tell a 10-year-old to stop yelling? ...My first goal is always get you in the room and then fight, fight, fight.”
  —Deray McKesson, 30:48

Dealing with Opposition and Belief-Challenging ([31:53])

• Shares his approach to challenging entrenched beliefs:

  “When is it okay for the police to kill your child? ...I needed to shift the cognitive burden so I was not the only person putting in work.”
  —Deray McKesson, 32:53

The Dangers to the Right to Protest: Legal Threats (33:23)

• Breaks down his Supreme Court case and how anti-protest tactics threaten fundamental rights.

Structural Barriers & Everyday Advocacy (39:25)

• Highlights how little it takes to get politicians’ attention:

  “If 25 people even send me... poorly written emails about a topic, it is literally an emergency.”
  —Deray McKesson quoting a Senate president, 40:11

Social Media’s Evolution—Value and Perils (41:47)

• Social media multiplies connection and organizing, but has also enabled hate and disinformation.
• “The internet has changed so much even in 10 years... It is a more complicated ecosystem than it was back in 2014.” ([43:46])

Winning, Not Just Fighting ([43:43])

• Emphasizes ongoing wins and worry that the left gets stuck in perpetual “fight mode”:

  “We do win. There's so many times we win. And I worry sometimes that people get more excited about fighting than winning. And, like, I got in this to win.”
  —Deray McKesson, 44:15

4. Sam Feder on Trans Representation, Media, and Backlash (47:08–69:35)

The Paradox of Visibility (49:26)

• Visibility is not liberation—dehumanizing images can “manufacture consent for executions.”

  “I think a lot of people assume... that I'm in the position of thinking visibility is the answer. But I think I've always been deep in the conversation around the paradox of visibility and how quickly images that dehumanize populations can manufacture consent for executions.”
  —Sam Feder, 49:26

• Laverne Cox’s Time Magazine cover (2014) “terrified” Sam:

  “I just didn't feel like the world was ready to see trans people in the media in the way that we had been seen.”
  —Sam Feder, 50:01

Misreading Representation as “Victory” ([50:42])

• Many, even allies, interpret trans media success as proof that everything’s okay.
• Discusses how mainstream trans visibility differs from the radical liberation movement of the 1970s.

Escalating Backlash (52:46)

• Amplified visibility led to increased rage—not against out trans stars, but everyday people.
• Sam notes the right has had a deliberate, strategic plan targeting trans issues for over a decade:

  “The right has a deep strategy…in terms of just even deciding what language to use publicly... It's been happening for nearly 15 years.”
  —Sam Feder, 53:06

The Importance of Tender, Accurate Representation (54:56)

• Highlights By Hook or By Crook (2001) as a meaningful, nuanced depiction of trans friendship and community.

New York School Board Organizing (59:10)

• Warns of rising anti-trans organizing locally—even in “liberal” New York, two school districts have passed anti-trans sports resolutions.

• Shares a moving story of a 12-year-old trans student’s courage and the cruelty of public testimony disputing her existence ([59:10–65:14]).

  “When you see it in your face like that, it's really hard to believe that it's true. And so I want to know how we can get more people to show up, right? I want to know where the generation, you know, in your podcast, where are they?”
  —Sam Feder, 65:06

Project on Mainstream Media’s Complicity (66:34)

• Details a new project investigating how mainstream (not just right-wing) media outlets have amplified anti-trans rhetoric and contributed to the ongoing civil rights rollback.

5. Esther Falick: Comedy, Gender, and Joy in Hardship (69:35–93:10)

Musical Comedy Set Highlights (70:35–79:23)

• Esther’s set masterfully blends sharp-witted jokes about trans life, gender transition, family, and representation.
• She joyously subverts expectations:

  “Can I tell you guys the three moments in my transition so far that have been the most gender affirming? ...The first time that my boobs bounced, I was like, I'm a woman. The first time that my hair bounced, I was like, I'm a beautiful woman. And the first time that my check bounced, I was like, I'm a trans woman.”
  —Esther Falick, 72:12

Adapting Comedy for Different Audiences (79:55)

• Esther crafts multiple versions of her set for different communities—from “201” for queer-informed rooms to “101” for mainstream spaces.

Navigating Identity on Stage (84:08)

• Reflects on the shift from invisibility to hypervisibility upon transitioning.
• Finds agency in performance:

  “I got to have control over how this audience saw my transness.”
  —Esther Falick, 83:53

Making Trans Experiences Universally Relatable—and Funny (85:52)

• Her comedy mines both the hardships and unexpected joys of the trans experience.

• Uses humor to undercut “inspiration porn,” highlighting the grounding realities of sexism and societal expectations in her life.

  “The trans feminine experience is such. Where it's like, oh, my God, yes, I figured out who I am. I'm a woman. Oh, no. I'm a woman.”
  —Esther Falick, 86:56

Building Joy and Community Through Performance (87:28)

• Performing is a source of joy and connection to the queer legacy of resilience.
• Addresses exclusion/barriers created by cost/access, and takes creative steps to include her core trans audience (e.g., CIS fans buying tickets for trans fans, [85:42]).

On the Humor in Queerness (89:46)

• “Being an outsider is, like, classic positioning for good comedy, you know? ...Everyone is talking about us except for us, and... I'm like, that's not what's funny.”

Closing Reflection on Gender and Stage Presence (91:28)

• On embodying womanhood:

  “My gender isn't woman. It's woman who lies across a piano.”
  —Esther Falick, 91:28

• On queer musical theater icons: Ariel from The Little Mermaid is “about bottom surgery.” ([92:57])

Timestamps: Key Moments

| Timestamp | Topic / Headline | |:-------------:|:-----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:03 | Host intros and panel lineup | | 04:38 | Eric Marcus: origin story and movement divides | | 17:01 | 1979 March on Washington: demands and impact | | 21:25 | The legacy of the Briggs Initiative | | 26:42 | Deray McKesson: philosophy of protest and activism | | 30:48 | Communication strategies with “the aunts and uncles” | | 33:23 | The Supreme Court and protest rights | | 40:11 | Everyday advocacy: “one email can change things” | | 49:26 | Sam Feder: paradox of visibility and media representation | | 59:10 | New York anti-trans school boards: contemporary organizing | | 70:35 | Esther Falick’s standup/comedy musical set | | 87:28 | Joy, community, and performing for the queer legacy | | 91:28 | Esther on “woman who lies across a piano” | | 92:57 | “Ariel is trans” in musical theater canon |

Memorable Quotes

• Eric Marcus:

  “It showed that we could win. It was important in the moment. Most people have no idea that it ever happened now, but what it did for the movement then was to show that in the face of a backlash... gay people organizing could stop the anti-gay backlash.”
  [21:25]

• Deray McKesson:

  “I think about protest as the idea of telling the truth in public... But whether we tell the truth is what doesn't change.”
  [26:42]

• Sam Feder:

  “I think I've always been deep in this conversation around the paradox of visibility and how quickly images that dehumanize populations can manufacture consent for executions.”
  [49:26]

• Esther Falick:

  “When I was growing up, I would start to have the inkling of the thought, 'Esther, you're trans.' But then I'd be like, 'No, you can't be trans, Esther. You don't want to kill and skin people...’ It took me a long time before I realized there are so many ways to be trans.”
  [73:43]

Closing Themes

• The fight for LGBTQ+/trans rights is cyclical; backlashes can always reappear.
• Visibility can be a double-edged sword, empowering but also exposing people to new forms of backlash when structural change is incomplete.
• Comedy and joy are survival tools and bridges to community.
• Local organizing and personal advocacy still matter.
• History provides both a roadmap and solace—“we have won before, we can win again.”

For more: Check out Outward (the host's other podcast about queer discourse) and Slate Plus for bonus episodes and ad-free content.