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Live: Party & Bullshit

Slow Burn

Wed Mar 18 2020

Summary

Slow Burn: Live – Party & Bullshit (March 18, 2020)

Host: Joel Anderson
Guests: Reverend Conrad Tillard, Eazy Mo B, Nasheem Myrick, Dan Smalls, Ben Westoff

Overview

This special live episode of Slow Burn—titled "Party & Bullshit"—serves as a prequel to Season 3's deep dive into the intertwined stories of The Notorious B.I.G. (Biggie Smalls) and Tupac Shakur. Recorded in front of a live audience, the episode explores the early friendship between these two icons, their first meetings, pivotal moments in their artistic careers, and the cultural landscape that drove both unity and division within hip hop. The episode features first-hand stories from collaborators and journalists, and a roundtable discussion about the period’s music, violence, and transformation of the hip hop industry.

Early Career and the Origins of "Party and Bullshit"

[00:00–06:41]

Setting the Stage in 1992:
Joel Anderson recounts Christopher Wallace's (Biggie's) transition from hustling to focusing on music, aided by Sean "Puffy" Combs, who signed him to Uptown Records.
The Last Poets’ Influence:
The titular phrase "party and bullshit" originally came from the Last Poets’ poem "When the Revolution Comes", which Biggie repurposed to reflect the reality of distraction and survival in Black America.

"When the revolution comes. But until then, you know and I know niggas will party and bullshit and party and bullshit..." —Reverend Conrad Tillard [04:57]
Biggie’s First Recordings:
- Debuted on remixes for Mary J. Blige and Supercat
- "Party and Bullshit" is written and recorded, reflecting Biggie’s neighborhood life:
  
  "...all we wanna do is..." —Ezmo B [05:30]
  "...Party and Bullshit came out in the spring of 1993. It was part of the soundtrack for the movie Who’s the Man?" —Joel Anderson [06:52]
Chico Del Vec:
Biggie's old friend, describes being in the studio for the recording and triggering a fight captured on the track.

Biggie & Tupac: First Meeting and Early Friendship

[07:08–14:58]

Promo Trip to LA:
Biggie, sent by Puffy to LA for radio promotions, is accompanied by Dan Smalls, who recalls Biggie’s lack of interest in self-promotion compared to his excitement to meet Tupac.
Mutual Admiration:
Tupac is at the cusp of stardom, coming from humble Bay Area beginnings and starting to act. The two artists' first meeting is set up accidentally via a weed dealer’s overlapping clientele.

"Tupac had played party and bullshit over and over again... Their mutual admiration made it easy for them to connect." —Joel Anderson [09:42]
Legendary Hangout at Tupac’s House:
Biggie and Tupac quickly bond in Tupac’s home:
- There’s plentiful weed ("He pulled out so much trees, it was ridiculous..." —Dan Smalls [11:15])
- Pac cooks lunch for everyone
- There’s an impromptu freestyle session
- Pac shows off a bag of guns, signifying trust
"You not giving strangers guns in your house unless you feel... it's deeper than rap." —Dan Smalls [12:22]
Biggie’s New Resolve:
The LA trip stokes Biggie’s ambition for music, marking a turning point in his life.

"So Biggie went back east with a new drive for music, and he had Tupac to thank for it." —Joel Anderson [14:58]

Roundtable: Artists, Conflict, and Hip Hop Community

[17:00–43:21]

On Early Predictions, Biggie’s & Pac’s Stardom

Initial Impressions:
Nasheem Myrick and Eazy Mo B discuss Biggie’s skill and his star potential.

"Nah, not like Big. Nah." —Nasheem Myrick [18:13]

Peace-Keeping Amid Turmoil

Reverend Conrad Tillard, 'Hip Hop Minister':
Describes his role mediating conflicts, including the infamous Rex-N-Effect vs. Zulu Nation beef—solved with a marathon negotiation at the mosque [22:56].
Hip hop's Communal Roots:
Emphasis on how hip hop grew organically from street/community efforts before becoming an industry.

Industry Politics and the East Coast–West Coast Divide

Clash with the Establishment:
Stories about high-stakes room meetings—including one with Colin Powell, Suge Knight, and other industry figures—highlight the tension underpinning the era.

"I just felt like in the room...there was conversation and things that could have been said and that could have happened that could have snuffed out what it eventually became." —Ezmo B [21:10]
Media’s Role in Fuelling Conflict:
Vibe Magazine’s coverage of East Coast–West Coast beef contributed to escalating paranoia. Eazy Mo B shares discomfort about being cited in an article—simply for having 'no comment' via his lawyer—which inadvertently stoked rumors [33:42].

Sidelined Collaborations and Missed Opportunities

"Who Shot Ya?" Origin Story:
Nasheem Myrick recounts how the track was originally created for a Mary J. Blige interlude for Keith Murray—but, after various twists, ended up with Biggie. Tupac believed the diss was aimed at him, but it was recorded before the infamous shooting [28:15–32:27].

"He said, I leave you leaking like Michael Jordan’s pops… Of course they didn't put it on the album... But Puff was like, don't worry. We're going to make it a record." —Nasheem Myrick [30:38]
Working with Both Legends:
Eazy Mo B details a unique recording session for “Running from the Police” where both Pac and Biggie, plus their respective entourages, packed the studio—highlighting their genuine friendship before beef [36:22].

"I was there and I got a chance to work with these two while they were friends. So one day when you wake up and you see or hear about, you know, they got beef, I was like, what happened?" —Ezmo B [36:38]

Cultural Context: Activism, Industry, and Evolving Values

[43:21–47:42]

Shift from Culture to Industry:
Tillard describes how, in early days, hip hop functioned as a community tool for peace and self-expression, but commercialization and industry profit motives eroded those ideals.

"What I feel happened...it became the music industry. And the music industry, like capitalism, is perverse. It has no value judgment. It just wants to make money." —Reverend Conrad Tillard [45:38]
Media Amplification & Violence:
The media helped escalate the violence; loss of two giants (Biggie, Tupac) marked a point of no return for the community.
Call for Unity:
Myrick:

"...we have to look back and realize like, we're all we got, you know, we have to maintain this love and respect for each other, because once that's gone, they don't give a fuck about us." [47:11]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Biggie & Tupac’s Chemistry:

"They liked each other and they trusted each other and they thought for at least a year or so that they understood each other like nobody else really could." —Joel Anderson [14:58]
Pac’s Political Theater:

"What Big and a lot of the New York rap scene didn’t understand was that [Pac’s] political theater took on a realistic dimension." —Reverend Conrad Tillard [37:22]
On Music Industry Changes:

"It became the music industry...it just wants to make money... That’s what happened to hip hop...the media played a part too." —Reverend Conrad Tillard [45:38]

Key Timestamps

Early influences and “Party and Bullshit”: [00:00–06:52]
Biggie & Tupac’s first encounter and wild house hangout: [08:12–12:54]
Roundtable: Biggie’s talent, community organizing, and industry confrontations: [17:00–25:49]
“Who Shot Ya?” and misinterpreted messages: [27:49–32:27]
Community mediation and industry critique: [43:21–47:42]
Call for unity and closing: [47:42]

Conclusion

"Party & Bullshit" shines a light on the overlooked camaraderie, artistry, and complexities at the heart of Biggie and Tupac’s relationship before industry forces and media narratives inflamed hostilities. It features unique personal accounts from those who knew and created with them, while also serving as a retrospective meditation on what hip hop was—and what it could have remained—had community and artistry not been subsumed by commerce and conflict.

For listeners wanting the inside story on Biggie and Tupac’s beginnings—and the root causes of hip hop’s most infamous feud—this live episode is essential.

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Transcript

Joel Anderson (0:00)

What's up, y'? All? This is Joel Anderson, host of Slow Burn season three, Biggie and Tupac. After we put out our last episode, we took the show on the road for live events on the east and West Coast. It was a great chance to connect with our fans and our critics. Our New York show was packed with hip hop legends, including producers Eazymo B and Nasheem Myrick. We talked about making classic tracks with Big and Pacific and watching both MCs rise in the rap game. We'll get to that conversation later in this show, but first, here's the opening act we used at each of our live events. This one was performed at the Brava Theater in San Francisco. The story we told in Slow Burn season three, BIG and Tupac. It was pretty dark. We started with Tupac getting shot in the lobby of Quad Recording Studios. We ended with two hip hop legends dead. In between came suspicion and paranoia and increasingly violent confrontations. But Biggie and Tupac's relationship began very differently. So tonight, to switch things up, I want to tell you about that beginning. Think of this as episode zero. This is a Biggie and Tupac story that not many people have heard told by someone who was right there with them. How did the two biggest rap superstars of the 90s meet? Did Tupac inspire Biggie to get serious about his career? And did it all have to turn out the way that it did? This is Slow Burn Live. I'm your host, Joel Anderson, and this is the prequel Party and Bullshit. Okay, so let's go back to 1992. Christopher Wallace was a small time hustler from Brooklyn. He'd been arrested for dealing crack in North Carolina, but now he'd stopped selling, he was starting to get serious about his music. The man who convinced Biggie to get out of the streets was Sean Puffy Combs. Puffy was then a rising executive at Uptown Records, one of the biggest labels in black music. In July 1992, Big made his Uptown debut on the remix of Mary J. Blige's hit Real Love.

Reverend Conrad Tillard (2:41)

Look up in the sky. It's a bird, it's a plane. Nope, it's Mary J. Ain't a damn thing.

Joel Anderson (2:55)

His next appearance came on another remix, this one by the dancehall artist Supercat. Biggie opened with a line that he'd come back to later in his career.

Ezmo B (3:13)

Past the clock I see you shivering Check the flavor Biggie Smalls is delivering lyrical lyrics is flowing.

Joel Anderson (3:20)

Biggie was off to a good start, but his music wasn't bringing him much money. Yet he was about to become a father, and he couldn't take care of a family on Puffy and Uptown's loose promises of future riches. He needed cash, and he needed it now. And the fast money of the drug game was hard to resist. Here's Biggie's childhood friend, Chico Del Vec.

Ezmo B (33:42)

Well, not that anybody literally pulled me to the side and spoke to me and wanted me to become embroiled in a war or anything, but Vibe again. I saved this issue. This magazine, too. I think it had Biggie on the front of it. And they had an article in there where basically it dealt with the East Coast, west coast situation at the time. And what they did in the article is they went around to different key figures in the business, not just limited to hip hop either. And everybody gave their account of the East Coast, west coast thing, what they felt about it at the time. I don't know why they even had to just print that. Why would they just. Why wouldn't they just, like, totally not even put me in there? Okay. So they have all the names and the replies, responses. It gets to my name in there and it says, easy, Mobi's. Lawyer says he has no comment. I'm like, why couldn't you just not put me in there at all? So that in itself, you know, caused something like, oh, well, why he gotta have his lawyer saying no? What it is, is I did tell my lawyer because the request was sent through him and I was like, oh, no, no, I don't have no comment. He's like, that's what I could tell him. Say, yeah, it came out. And they said that's what I told them. I'm like, wow. Wow. But overall, I didn't wanna. I never ever wanted any part in that. And even modern day, leading all the way up to now, whenever the question of Big and Pac comes up, I never, ever try to champion the beef. I always have always tried to show that there was a time of peace. And the proof is that I worked with them separately and together. The together was on this song called Running from the Police. It was remixed by eminem in what, 0304, something like that? Yeah. And knocked down to just the title of Running. But originally it was Running from the Police. I remember it clearly. We recorded it in unique recording studio in the. On the top floor, the C room. And Biggie was in there. He had all his people in there, Junior MAFIA and all his people. Pac, he had the outlaws and all his people up in.

Reverend Conrad Tillard (43:21)

Well, I think what happened was, you know, I introduced Suge Knight to Kool Herc and Afrika Bambana, and we met at Sylvia's. We had met the day before when they were Here at the Grammys, I think in 93. I went upstairs, 43rd floor. I had no idea who Suge Knight was at the time. Jamie Brown of Sister to Sister magazine. She saw us settle the beef between Rex and Effects and Tribe called questions. She said, minister, I want you to meet with Suge. Now, keep in mind, this is not this day of enlightenment. When a guy named Suge in the record industry, I wasn't the least bit worried about him being tough or anything. So I went to see him with one man. And I got off the elevator, and it was about 50 bloods, muscle bound, buntry, neck bone, all of these that you've heard about. And they take me to the room, and Mary J. Blige is there, kc, MC Rage. We're talking, and Suge comes out. He was angry because what I didn't know was the brothers. He had been shaking down Andre Harrell and Russell Simmons. And we had the security was the checkmate. So we put the brothers there so he couldn't do what he was doing. So anyway, make a long story short, we had to stop the meeting that day. And I told him, let's meet tomorrow up in Harlem. When he came up to Harlem the next day, he came with MC Rage, a baby. I think that was neck bones baby or heroin. Heron's baby in a cab. Wow. I had 200 men, nation of Islam, Zulu nation soldiers. He got out of that cab, and he knew he was outnumbered that day. But we went into Sylvia's and I introduced him to Bam and Herc, and I said to him, this is what happened to the music. I said, you know, what they created was a cultural phenomenon to stop people from killing. And they did it for the love and the culture. What you do is the music industry. And what I feel happened to no longer became a culture of young people based in the community, and it became the music industry. And the music industry, like capitalism, is perverse. It has no value judgment. It just wants to make money. I remember one of the executives that I was trying to get to help the young people in Harlem back then. I said, you know, you all should be concerned about these young people, young people. She said, the only thing we're concerned about young people is getting that $20 out of their pocket. So that's what happened to the music. That's what happened to hip hop, east coast, west Coast. The violence didn't help the media, too. The media played a part.