The Clinton Impeachment | 3. Cred

Summary

Slow Burn: The Clinton Impeachment | Episode 3. Cred

Release Date: August 22, 2018
Host: Leon Neyfakh (Slate Podcasts)

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Episode Overview

In this episode titled "Cred," Slow Burn examines the role of Cliff Jackson, a longtime acquaintance and eventual nemesis of Bill Clinton, in shaping the narrative around Clinton’s character and credibility during his political ascent—culminating in efforts to expose and publicize details of Clinton’s draft history and sexual misconduct allegations. The episode probes how personal motives, media strategy, and the quest for legitimacy turned the Clinton scandals into defining events of the 1990s.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Roots of Cliff Jackson and Bill Clinton’s Relationship

• Initial Connection:
  • Met at Oxford in 1968; both were ambitious Arkansans, Clinton on a Rhodes Scholarship and Jackson on a Fulbright.
  • Though their personalities diverged—Clinton was outgoing, Jackson more reserved—Arkansas roots and political ambitions made them friends.
• Political and Personal Differences:
  • Clinton, a Democrat, was seen as charming and persuasive; Jackson, a Republican, more of a loner.
  • Journalist David Maraniss described Jackson as “cold and lonely,” emphasizing the contrasting experience at Oxford.

Notable Quote:

"He was a gregarious, affable fellow, upbeat, very loquacious, loved to hear himself talk... But he was from Arkansas and I was from Arkansas. We're two Archies at Oxford, so we became friends."
— Cliff Jackson (01:27)

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2. Early Political Paths and Diverging Ambitions

• Career Trajectories:
  • Jackson lost a race for district attorney in 1976, downplaying the defeat (“I lost because I really didn't want the job. I just let people talk me into it.” – Jackson, 02:44).
  • Clinton won Arkansas attorney general and soon became the youngest governor in America.
• Jackson’s Perspective from Afar:
  • Maintained contact but observed Clinton’s rise skeptically, believing Clinton was a master manipulator.

Notable Quote:

"Bill Clinton could be in a room with 12 different people... and persuade each one of the 12 when they leave that room... I know Bill is really with me.”
— Cliff Jackson (03:39)

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3. Jackson as Clinton Critic: Motives and Early Moves

• Intentions and Public Image:

  • Jackson rejected the idea he was Clinton’s “enemy” but was driven by concern about Clinton’s authenticity.
  • In 1992, Jackson became a vocal anti-Clinton activist (“All he's trying to do is just provide a choice between reality and political image making.” – Jackson, 04:31).

• Attack on Fiscal Policy:

  • Founded the Alliance for Rebirth of an Independent American Spirit.
  • Took out a full-page ad: "Please Governor Clinton, don't do to America what you did to Arkansas."

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4. The Draft Controversy: Personal Betrayal Goes Public

• Jackson’s Knowledge:
  • Clinton’s avoidance of the Vietnam draft became a point of contention.
  • Jackson had once tried to help Clinton avoid active duty; over two decades later, he revealed this to the media.
• Media Fallout:
  • Jackson’s disclosures made national news, including appearances on Larry King Live and Crossfire.
  • The revelations forced Clinton’s campaign into defense mode but didn’t prevent his election.

Notable Quote:

"I knew that if I told that story, I was crossing the Rubicon. I was burning all bridges with Bill Clinton."
— Cliff Jackson (05:53)

• Jackson’s Rationale:
  • He wanted Clinton to “admit that he has not told the truth to the American people” (06:22).

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5. Transitioning to Scandal: Sex, Credibility, and Believability

• Escalating Allegations:
  • After the draft story, Jackson pivoted to issues of sexual misconduct.
  • He understood that in order for allegations to stick, they had to feel plausible to the public, not just be factually true.
• Critical Questions:
  • Explores the philosophical and practical questions: What gives an accusation legitimacy? What determines whose story is believed?
• Narrative Framing:
  • "The totality of all these accusations has a corrosive effect on the president."
    — Summary (07:30)
  • Hillary Clinton characterized the attacks as “trash for cash.”
  • The episode reflects on how believability and media saturation shape public perception and fate of political figures.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with timestamps)

• On Clinton’s Persuasiveness
  "He will talk to each one of those people, look them intently in the eye… and persuade each one of the 12 when they leave that room… I know Bill is really with me.”
  — Cliff Jackson (03:39)

• On Crossing Personal Lines
  "If I told that story, I was crossing the Rubicon. I was burning all bridges with Bill Clinton."
  — Cliff Jackson (05:53)

• On Motivation for Accusations
  "When a candidate is packaged in a manner that is 180 degrees from the truth, we need to know that."
  — Cliff Jackson (04:31)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:32–03:24 — Origins of Clinton and Jackson’s relationship and early political ambitions.
• 03:39–04:47 — Jackson on Clinton's political persona; beginning his public activism against Clinton.
• 04:47–06:40 — Jackson’s involvement in exposing Clinton’s draft history; consequences and public reaction.
• 06:40–07:56 — Shifting focus to allegations of sexual misconduct; discussions about credibility and believability.

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Overall Tone & Approach

The episode preserves a tone of investigative curiosity, historical reflection, and personal drama. Through first-person interviews, archival clips, and candid admissions, the podcast blends intimate character study with broader questions about how truth and rumor intersect in political scandal.

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Summary

“Cred” tells the story of how Cliff Jackson’s crusade against Bill Clinton began as a complicated friendship and ended as a public campaign to expose what he saw as Clinton’s core dishonesty. It’s an exploration of the nuances behind political credibility—how accusations gain traction, the importance of narrative plausibility, and how even those closest to power can become its fiercest adversaries. Through Jackson’s story, Slow Burn unpacks how much of history hinges on who gets believed—and why.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Cliff Jackson insists that he never hated Bill Clinton. Here's what he said about it when I interviewed him earlier this year.

[C]

With all my reservations about his character, I still thought that he had the potential to be one of the greatest presidents we've ever had.

[B]

Jackson said pretty much the same thing back in 1994, when it was clear that he was doing everything he could to to weaken Clinton's presidency.

[D]

I am not an enemy of Bill Clinton. Enemy to me implies personal animus, personal animosity, and I don't have that. That's not why I'm doing what I'm doing.

[B]

You'll hear about what Cliff Jackson was doing and why in just a second. First, I want to tell you the story of how he and Clinton met. It goes back to 1968, when the Vietnam War was at its height and Clinton and Jackson were both enrolled at Oxford. The future president was on a Rhodes Scholarship, and Jackson was on a Fulbright.

[C]

He came by my room and introduced himself. He was a gregarious, affable fellow, upbeat, very loquacious, loved to hear himself talk and normally the personality type that doesn't resonate with me. But he was from Arkansas and I was from Arkansas. We're two Archies at Oxford, so we became friends.

[B]

Besides being from Arkansas, Clinton and Jackson had something else in common. They were both interested in politics, and they both had plans to run for elected office when they came home from Oxford. In a lot of ways, though, the two young men were opposites. For one thing, Clinton was a Democrat and Jackson was a Republican. For another, Clinton was outgoing and popular, while Jackson was kind of a sad sack. The journalist David Marinus once wrote that Jackson spent most of his first term at Oxford, cold and lonely, taking some small comfort in hot soup that he cooked up in a crock every afternoon. After returning to Arkansas, Clinton and Jackson stayed in touch, but their lives went in different directions. In 1976, Jackson ran for district attorney in Pulaski County, Arkansas. He lost the race, but he assured me that he was not upset about it.

[C]

I came very close to Winning and was thoroughly happy. I lost because I really didn't want the job. I just let people talk me into it.

[B]

That same year, Clinton ran for Arkansas attorney general, and he won. Two years after that, at the age of 32, Clinton leveled up again.

[E]

I ask those who have believed in me and those who have doubted by.

[B]

Becoming the youngest governor in America, let.

[E]

Us trust each other and work to forge a future, a future that will make us proud that in our time we gave our best. God bless you all and thank you very much.

[B]

Cliff Jackson, who by this point was a successful lawyer in private practice, watched from afar as his old friend became one of the Democratic Party's brightest young stars. And even if it's true that Jackson didn't hate Clinton, he did believe that he could see through him.

[C]

Bill Clinton could be in a room with 12 different people who hold 12 different, slightly different positions on one issue. He will talk to each one of those people, look them intently in the eye, say things that appeals to them, and persuade each one of the 12 when they leave that room. Oh, yes, I heard what he said to the other 11 people. But look, I know Bill is really with me.

[B]

This is a fairly common refrain about Clinton, that he's such a good politician that you can't trust anything he says and you can't even trust your own reaction to him. But Jackson was not your average Clinton skeptic. Starting with the 1992 presidential campaign, he became a top anti Clinton activist.

[D]

The allegations are being orchestrated by Little.

[B]

Rock attorney and Clinton arch rival Cliff Jackson.

[D]

Jackson insists that his motives are pure. All he's trying to do is just provide a choice between reality and political image making. When a candidate is packaged in a MANNER that is 180 degrees from the truth, we need to know that.

[B]

Jackson's first move against Clinton was relatively modest. After starting an organization called the alliance for Rebirth of an Independent American Spirit, he published a full page newspaper ad criticizing Clinton's fiscal policies. The ad was headlined, please Governor Clinton, don't do to America what you did to Arkansas. Jackson's next step was more dramatic. He inserted himself into one of the biggest controversies of the campaign. Clinton had not served in the Vietnam War, and the media had been trying to nail down whether he had dodged the draft. Clinton publicly denied that he had ever received any favorable treatment or used his connections to avoid military service. He said he'd just been lucky. But Jackson knew the story was more complicated. Back in 1969, just before Jackson left Oxford, the two men had spoken about the Vietnam War. Clinton had told Jackson that he had received an induction notice and was looking for a way to avoid going on active duty. Back in Arkansas, Jackson tried to pull some strings on his friend's behalf. 23 years later, he decided to tell the world about.

[C]

Was sort of a crisis night. I couldn't sleep all night long. Didn't get a wink of sleep. Stayed. I knew that if I told that story, I was crossing the Rubicon. I was burning all bridges with Bill Clinton.

[B]

Jackson ended up sharing everything he knew about Clinton's draft history with a reporter from the LA Times. When the article appeared in April of 1992, it landed Jackson on Larry King Live and Crossfire. And it put Clinton's campaign on the.

[D]

Defensive, answering new questions about Clinton's past. A revelation that he'd received a draft induction notice in 1969, a fact made public by a former classmate, Cliff Jackson. I want him to admit that he has not told the truth to the American people.

[B]

The draft controversy didn't stop Clinton from winning the election. But his old frenemy from Oxford was not done trying to bring him down. Jackson's next attack on the now President wasn't about fiscal policy was or the duty to serve one's country. It was about sex. In pursuing this new angle, Jackson understood that it wasn't enough for the information he fed to the press to be true. It also had to feel true. It had to be something that people were willing to believe. That challenge led Jackson to grapple with a bunch of big questions. What gives an accusation legitimacy? What makes a story sound plausible and convincing? And what determines in the end whether someone is believed or dismissed as a liar? This is Slow Burn. I'm your host, Leon Neyfak. Controversies continue to swirl around President Clinton.

[D]

The totality of all these accusations has a corrosive effect on the president. Mrs. Clinton referred to all this as trash for cash.

[C]

Do you think these people care about you? Or are they just using you to get Bill Clinton?

[B]

The President's lawyers had no comment. Episode 3 CRED.

[F]

Hi again, Susan here. I hope you're finding this story as compelling as we did. I've worked at Slate for nine years and I now serve as executive editor of the magazine. I also hosted season seven of Slow Burn on the history of Roe v. Wade, which was the most thorough and thoughtful journalism I've ever done. For every season, we track down the people who lived through these historic events and find archival material that helps us see these stories in new ways. That work isn't easy or cheap, which is why we depend on Slate plus members to make it happen. Your membership helps us keep making Slow Burn and supports all of Slate's journalism. If you want to hear the rest of this season and support what we do, now's the perfect time to join Slate Plus. You can join directly within Apple Podcasts and Spotify, or visit slate.com slowburn to get access wherever you listen. Thanks so much for listening and for considering becoming a member.