The Clinton Impeachment | 5. Tell-All

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Slow Burn – The Clinton Impeachment | Episode 5: Tell-All

Host: Leon Neyfakh
Release Date: September 12, 2018

---

Episode Overview

In “Tell-All,” Slow Burn host Leon Neyfakh delves deep into the role of Linda Tripp—the government employee whose secret recordings of Monica Lewinsky helped precipitate the Clinton impeachment crisis. The episode explores the motivations, personal turmoil, and ethical quandaries at the heart of Tripp's actions, offering an introspective look at a woman vilified in public but rarely allowed to share her own perspective. Neyfakh achieves a rare, candid interview with Tripp—one that reveals a complicated story far more nuanced than the public narrative.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Linda Tripp’s Reluctance and the Unorthodox Interview

• Initial Contact: Neyfakh admits he doubted Tripp would ever agree to speak (00:32 – 01:10).
• Reluctance: Tripp initially refuses an interview, citing her new life away from the scandal (01:10 – 01:39).
• Persistence Pays Off: Despite her hesitation and request to remain private, Neyfakh continues the conversation, ultimately recording their call without explicit consent, raising both ethical and legal questions (01:39 – 03:35).
• Notable Quote:
  • Leon Neyfakh: “If I used the tape, could Linda Tripp really object?” (03:32)

2. Linda Tripp: The Person Behind the Tabloid Villain

• Misunderstood Figure: Tripp describes being cast as the national villain, with books about the scandal in her home brimming with post-it notes marking perceived factual errors (04:20 – 04:46).
• Notable Quote:
  • Linda Tripp: “Central casting couldn’t have cast a better villain. The entire country had decided who I was, and it was evil incarnate. There was no chance to say, but wait, you don’t know this or you don’t know that... there was none of it.” (04:46)
• Motivations Clarified: Tripp insists her intentions were not political or for profit, and that she did not intend to betray Lewinsky (05:04 – 05:16).

3. Her Motivation and Emotional Strain

• Guilt and Fear: She confesses to feeling terrified and guilt-ridden as she recorded Lewinsky, convinced that in the end it would help Monica and others (05:16 – 05:47).
• Notable Quote:
  • Linda Tripp: “This was flying by the seat of my pants, terrified out of my wits, completely guilt ridden that I was having to manipulate her, but convinced in my soul that in the end it would benefit her. That he would no longer be able to do this to her or to anyone else.” (05:30)

4. The Ethics of Secret Recording

• Neyfakh’s Dilemma: The host reflects on his own ethical quandary—having secretly taped Tripp, is he in any position to judge her for similar actions? (05:47 – 06:05)
• Meta Reflection: The parallel between Tripp’s decisions and Neyfakh’s is quietly explicit.

5. Public Consequences and the Enduring Legacy

• Irrevocable Impact: Tripp discusses the impossibility of altering public perception and the lack of space for her own narrative to emerge (04:46 – 05:04).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Linda Tripp (on media caricature):
  “Central casting couldn’t have cast a better villain. The entire country had decided who I was, and it was evil incarnate.” (04:46)
• Leon Neyfakh (on his ethical quandary):
  “If I used the tape, could Linda Tripp really object?” (03:32)
• Linda Tripp (on her actions):
  “Flying by the seat of my pants... completely guilt ridden... but convinced in my soul that in the end it would benefit her...” (05:30)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:32: Neyfakh describes the process of reaching out to Tripp.
• 01:10: Tripp initially refuses an interview, explains her desire for privacy.
• 03:32: Host contemplates the ethics of using a secret recording.
• 04:20: Neyfakh visits Tripp’s home and observes her obsession with factual accuracy in books about the scandal.
• 04:46: Tripp details the pain of being misunderstood and labeled as evil.
• 05:16 – 05:47: Tripp shares her emotional experience and rationale for taping Lewinsky.
• 06:05: Neyfakh reflects on whether he would have justified airing the secret recording.

---

Tone and Language

The episode is intimate and contemplative, with both Neyfakh and Tripp sharing personal vulnerabilities. Tripp is candid, defensive, and emotionally raw, while Neyfakh is reflective, revealing his own doubts about journalistic ethics. The tone is non-judgmental, probing, and designed to elicit self-reflection in the listener about truth, narrative, and accountability.

---

Summary

“Tell-All” is a revealing, empathetic look at Linda Tripp’s role in the Clinton impeachment saga—inviting listeners to see beyond tabloid narratives and consider her personal struggle, motivations, and lasting heartache. Through archival material and new, deeply personal interviews, the episode humanizes a figure long cast as a villain and re-examines the blurred boundaries between public interest, private pain, and journalistic responsibility.

Transcript

[Leon Neyfakh]

Wasn't that delicious?

[Linda Tripp]

So good.

[Leon Neyfakh]

Your bill, ladies.

[Susan Matthews]

I got it. No, I got it.

[Linda Tripp]

Seriously, I insist.

[Susan Matthews]

I insisted first. Oh, don't be silly.

[Linda Tripp]

You don't be silly.

[Wells Fargo Narrator]

People with the Wells Fargo active cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Leon Neyfakh]

Okay.

[Linda Tripp]

Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors.

[Leon Neyfakh]

Shoot. No.

[Wells Fargo Narrator]

The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.comActiveCash terms apply.

[Leon Neyfakh]

A few months ago, I was at my desk working late, going through a list of people I wanted to interview for this podcast. Linda Tripp was one of the first people I had put on the list. I didn't have high hopes. When I dialed her number. I wasn't even sure I had the right one. But then, after a couple of rings, Tripp picked up. I recognized her voice. I remembered it from the 22 hours of tapes she made back in 1997 when she secretly recorded a series of phone calls which her friend Monica Lewinsky talked about her tumultuous affair with the President.

[Linda Tripp]

You have a crappy personal situation and you have a crappy professional situation.

[Leon Neyfakh]

After I explained who I was and what I was doing, Trippe told me that she did not want to be interviewed. She said it had been 20 years since all this stuff happened. She had a whole new life now that had nothing to do with Bill Clinton or Monica Lewinsky. I knew about this new life from stories I'd read about Trip. She lived on a horse farm in rural Virginia, and she owned a year round Christmas store with her husband Dieter, whom she spoke German with at home. It made sense that Tripp didn't want to reignite interest in her past. But I kept pushing, saying I wanted to get her side of the story. After a few minutes, Tripp said something to the effect of, there's no way you would ever get it right. And when I asked what she meant, she just started answering me. And suddenly we were talking. About half an hour into the call, I realized that this could be my only shot at interviewing Trip. And though it was clear to me that Tripp did not think we were in the middle of an interview, she did know that I was a journalist and there had been no discussion of our conversation being off the record. So without interrupting her, I started recording the call. We talked for another hour and a half after that, and she was being incredibly forthcoming, telling me about her relationship with Lewinsky, her motivations for taping her, and how she felt about her actions. All these years later, I never revealed to Tripp that I was recording everything she was saying or asked for her permission to start. At the end of the call, Tripp asked me if I'd consider keeping the conversation between us. Caught off guard, I responded vaguely, telling her that I wanted to sit down and talk properly in person. Tripp said she would think about it. After we said goodnight, I turned off my tape recorder and stared at it. By this point, it was nearly 11 o' clock and there was no one else left in the Slate office, which meant there was no one for me to go up to and say, guess what? I just secretly taped a phone call with Linda Tripp. Over the next couple of weeks, while Tripp weighed the possibility of an interview, I considered my options. Aside from Clinton and Lewinsky, Tripp was probably the most pivotal player in this whole saga. An ordinary person who made extraordinary choices that precipitated the entire impeachment crisis. And she had barely given any interviews in the years since. Legally, I was fine to use the tape, but was it ethical? Since I hadn't agreed to go off the record, I wouldn't be violating any journalistic rules. Also, this was Lynne, the Tripp, the person who secured her place in history by surreptitiously taping her friend's desperate confessions and handing them over to federal prosecutors. A person who ensured that a young woman's most private moments would be described and dissected in newspapers and on TV screens around the world. If I used the tape, could Linda Trippe really object? And then in early June, Trippe called me back and she said, okay, I could come see her in Virginia, and if she got the sense that she could trust me, she would let me ask whatever questions I wanted. So I went to Linda Tripp's horse farm. When my producer and I showed up, she offered to make us lunch real quick.

[Linda Tripp]

It's like right around that time when.

[Leon Neyfakh]

We sat down in Tripp's living room, she seemed nervous, like she was bracing herself for a root canal. On a shelf in the corner of the room, I noticed a row of books about the Clinton scandal. The Jeff Toobin one, the Michael Isikoff one. And almost all of them were brimming with little post it notes. Trip told me that each note corresponded to a factual error. Taken together, they were a testament to how misunderstood Trip felt and how wrong she thinks we all were about her.

[Linda Tripp]

Central casting couldn't have cast a better villain. The entire country had decided who I was, and it was evil incarnate. There was no chance to say, but wait, you don't know this or you don't know that there was none of it.

[Leon Neyfakh]

Yes, she had tried to take down the president, Tripp told me, but she didn't do it for political reasons or because she wanted to make money. Above all, the thing she wants everyone to understand is that she did not set out to betray Monica Lewinsky.

[Linda Tripp]

Sitting here today, I have no clue what I thought was going to happen. It was sort of fuzzy, but there wasn't an organized master plan of what I was thinking. This was flying by the seat of my pants, terrified out of my wits, completely guilt ridden that I was having to manipulate her, but convinced in my soul that in the end it would benefit her that he would no longer be able to do this to her or to anyone else.

[Leon Neyfakh]

As I listened to Tripp talk, I thought about whether I would have used my tape if she had turned down my interview request. Would I really have played it on this show for a million people to hear? Would I have convinced myself that it was the right thing to do? This is Slow Burn. I'm your host, Leon Naifel.

[Linda Tripp]

No one wanted to become the sex.

[Leon Neyfakh]

Police, she says to me. There's another story here, but it's not the one you think it is. They call me at 3am and show up with these tapes. Look, I can't lie under oath. Episode 5 tell all.

[Susan Matthews]

Hi again, Susan here. I hope you're finding this story as compelling as we did. I've worked at Slate for nine years and I now serve as executive editor of the magazine. I also hosted season seven of Slow Burn on the history of Roe v. Wade, which was the most thorough and thoughtful journalism I've ever done. For every season, we track down the people who lived through these historic events and find archival material that helps us see these stories in new ways. That work isn't easy or cheap, which is why we depend on Slate plus members to make it happen. Your membership helps us keep making Slow Burn and supports all of Slate's journalism. If you want to hear the rest of this season and support what we do, now's the perfect time to join Slate Plus. You can join directly within Apple Podcasts and Spotify, or visit slate.com slowburnplus to get access wherever you listen. Thanks so much for listening and for considering becoming a member.

[LifeLock Narrator]

The new year brings new health goals and wealth goals. Protecting your identity is an important step. Your info is in endless places that could expose you to identity identity theft leading to lost funds. Lifelock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our restoration specialists will fix it guaranteed or your money back. Resolve to make identity, health and wealth part of your New year's goals with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com SpecialOffer terms apply.