Slow Burn (Slate Podcasts)

Season 2: The Clinton Impeachment | Episode 7: Bedfellows
Date: September 26, 2018
Host: Leon Neyfakh

Episode Overview

This episode, titled “Bedfellows,” delves into an overlooked but crucial aspect of the Clinton impeachment scandal: the responses from feminists, liberals, and particularly women in media and politics to the revelations about Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. The episode explores the conflicting emotions, debates, and justifications that arose among Clinton’s supporters—including prominent feminist voices—as they grappled with the implications of defending a president whose personal conduct clashed with their principles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Clinton’s Appeal to Liberal Women and Feminists

• Clinton’s early image: Clinton was seen as a political savior for left-leaning Americans, especially after years of Republican dominance.
  • Lisa Chase: “If you were a liberal Democrat in Manhattan in 1993, Bill Clinton was what you dreamed of. You know, that kind of valuable intelligence that he had was like, that was an aphrodisiac for, I think, lots of people, women and men.” (00:08)
• Pro-women policies: Clinton was credited with supporting women’s rights (e.g., defending Roe v. Wade, appointing Ruth Bader Ginsburg, enacting the Violence Against Women Act).
• Complicated record: Not all women supported Clinton; women of color in particular felt alienated by his welfare reforms and certain policies.

2. The Allure and Flaws of Bill Clinton

• Clinton’s reputation for charisma was entangled with his reputation for sexual indiscretion.
  • Lisa Chase: “He was like that guy who was so great but flawed. And you were trying to figure him out, right? You were just trying to unlock it. And if you could unlock it, you could potentially fix him.” (02:03)
• The scandals were, paradoxically, part of the draw for some women who felt they could understand or "fix" him.

3. The Observer’s Now-Infamous ‘Would You Sleep With Clinton?’ Roundtable ([02:40])

• Lisa Chase, then an editor at the New York Observer, discusses how media coverage and personal attitudes of the time normalized and even glamorized Clinton’s indiscretions.
• At a bar, the question arose among her friends: “Would you sleep with the president?”—and every woman said yes.
  • This led to a focus group published in The Observer where notable New York women were asked the question on record.
  • Panelists included Katie Roifi, Erica Jong, Patricia Marx, and others, moderated by Francine Prose at Le Bernardin restaurant.
• Article’s general tone: The women effectively took for granted that Clinton had an affair with Lewinsky and didn’t care, with some expressing envy for Lewinsky.
  • Erika Jong, quoted in the article: “I want a president to be alive from the waist down.” (03:30)

4. The Feminist Split and Backlash ([04:13])

• Journalist Marjorie Williams criticized the Observer piece in Vanity Fair, calling it “the most embarrassing thing she had read in a long time.”
• Williams and others argued that feminists were ignoring the ugly power dynamics at play, refusing to grapple with the ethical and personal realities of Clinton’s behavior.
• The episode points out it’s a myth that all feminists united behind Clinton; there was, in reality, a deep and public debate about sex, power, and priorities.
• Diverging feminist views:
  • Some believed Clinton had victimized Lewinsky and should no longer have feminist support.
  • Others, like Lisa Chase, saw the scandal as a partisan attack and stayed defensive of Clinton for political reasons, prioritizing his policies over his personal failings.

5. Defending the President Amid Political Warfare ([05:08])

• Lisa Chase: “We felt that there was this incredibly ridiculous thing happening and this incredibly dangerous thing happening. And we felt defensive for our president…We weren’t sure who was going to win.” (05:08)
• The episode underlines that while Clinton’s enemies seized on the scandal, the real drama—and the most consequential debates—were among his friends and supporters.

6. Feminist Double Standards and Modern Reflection ([05:53])

• The charge of hypocrisy or double standard still lingers over feminist reactions to the Lewinsky scandal.
  • Lisa Chase: “I think those that would accuse the feminist movement of having a double standard don’t understand well what we do as.” (05:53)
• The episode sets up a nuanced dive into the complexity of feminist responses, noting that Lewinsky herself always described her relationship with Clinton as consensual—even as others described her as a victim.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Clinton’s appeal:
  Lisa Chase: “You just felt that what he loved was intelligence and he liked women.” (01:40)

• On feminists’ self-reflection:
  Lisa Chase: “We were projecting ourselves onto her. It was almost as if a lot of the women in that room felt this is a right that we’d fought for, the right to pursue powerful men and in whatever way, you know, professionally or, you know, sexually.” (03:52)

• Marjorie Williams’ critique:
  The episode references Williams’ observation that the Observer feature showed feminist thinkers “gleefully” overlooking the problematic nature of the power imbalance.

• On the internal divide:
  Narrator: “Today, it’s conventional wisdom that all feminists hypocritically turned their backs on Monica Lewinsky. In fact, the scandal provoked an intense debate within the feminist movement about sex, power, consent, and priorities.” (04:13)

Key Timestamps

• 00:08 – Lisa Chase describes early Clinton appeal among liberal women.
• 01:40 – Discussion of Clinton’s pro-women policies.
• 02:03 – Chase on the allure and flaws of Clinton.
• 02:28 - 03:52 – The origins and aftermath of the infamous “Would You Sleep With Clinton?” Observer roundtable.
• 04:13 – Marjorie Williams’ Vanity Fair critique and the myth of unanimous feminist support.
• 05:08 – Lisa Chase on feeling defensive about Clinton amid scandal.
• 05:53 – Lisa Chase addresses accusations of feminist double standards.

Conclusion

This episode paints a vivid picture of the conflicts, cultural currents, and frank conversations among women—especially feminists and liberals—in the midst of the Clinton impeachment. It challenges the simplistic narrative that feminists abandoned Monica Lewinsky, revealing the deep, messy debates about loyalty, power, sex, and priorities that played out inside the movement, and inside American society at large during one of its most divisive political moments.