The Clinton Impeachment | 7. Bedfellows

Summary

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Slow Burn (Slate Podcasts)

Season 2: The Clinton Impeachment | Episode 7: Bedfellows
Date: September 26, 2018
Host: Leon Neyfakh

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Episode Overview

This episode, titled “Bedfellows,” delves into an overlooked but crucial aspect of the Clinton impeachment scandal: the responses from feminists, liberals, and particularly women in media and politics to the revelations about Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. The episode explores the conflicting emotions, debates, and justifications that arose among Clinton’s supporters—including prominent feminist voices—as they grappled with the implications of defending a president whose personal conduct clashed with their principles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Clinton’s Appeal to Liberal Women and Feminists

• Clinton’s early image: Clinton was seen as a political savior for left-leaning Americans, especially after years of Republican dominance.
  • Lisa Chase: “If you were a liberal Democrat in Manhattan in 1993, Bill Clinton was what you dreamed of. You know, that kind of valuable intelligence that he had was like, that was an aphrodisiac for, I think, lots of people, women and men.” (00:08)
• Pro-women policies: Clinton was credited with supporting women’s rights (e.g., defending Roe v. Wade, appointing Ruth Bader Ginsburg, enacting the Violence Against Women Act).
• Complicated record: Not all women supported Clinton; women of color in particular felt alienated by his welfare reforms and certain policies.

2. The Allure and Flaws of Bill Clinton

• Clinton’s reputation for charisma was entangled with his reputation for sexual indiscretion.
  • Lisa Chase: “He was like that guy who was so great but flawed. And you were trying to figure him out, right? You were just trying to unlock it. And if you could unlock it, you could potentially fix him.” (02:03)
• The scandals were, paradoxically, part of the draw for some women who felt they could understand or "fix" him.

3. The Observer’s Now-Infamous ‘Would You Sleep With Clinton?’ Roundtable ([02:40])

• Lisa Chase, then an editor at the New York Observer, discusses how media coverage and personal attitudes of the time normalized and even glamorized Clinton’s indiscretions.
• At a bar, the question arose among her friends: “Would you sleep with the president?”—and every woman said yes.
  • This led to a focus group published in The Observer where notable New York women were asked the question on record.
  • Panelists included Katie Roifi, Erica Jong, Patricia Marx, and others, moderated by Francine Prose at Le Bernardin restaurant.
• Article’s general tone: The women effectively took for granted that Clinton had an affair with Lewinsky and didn’t care, with some expressing envy for Lewinsky.
  • Erika Jong, quoted in the article: “I want a president to be alive from the waist down.” (03:30)

4. The Feminist Split and Backlash ([04:13])

• Journalist Marjorie Williams criticized the Observer piece in Vanity Fair, calling it “the most embarrassing thing she had read in a long time.”
• Williams and others argued that feminists were ignoring the ugly power dynamics at play, refusing to grapple with the ethical and personal realities of Clinton’s behavior.
• The episode points out it’s a myth that all feminists united behind Clinton; there was, in reality, a deep and public debate about sex, power, and priorities.
• Diverging feminist views:
  • Some believed Clinton had victimized Lewinsky and should no longer have feminist support.
  • Others, like Lisa Chase, saw the scandal as a partisan attack and stayed defensive of Clinton for political reasons, prioritizing his policies over his personal failings.

5. Defending the President Amid Political Warfare ([05:08])

• Lisa Chase: “We felt that there was this incredibly ridiculous thing happening and this incredibly dangerous thing happening. And we felt defensive for our president…We weren’t sure who was going to win.” (05:08)
• The episode underlines that while Clinton’s enemies seized on the scandal, the real drama—and the most consequential debates—were among his friends and supporters.

6. Feminist Double Standards and Modern Reflection ([05:53])

• The charge of hypocrisy or double standard still lingers over feminist reactions to the Lewinsky scandal.
  • Lisa Chase: “I think those that would accuse the feminist movement of having a double standard don’t understand well what we do as.” (05:53)
• The episode sets up a nuanced dive into the complexity of feminist responses, noting that Lewinsky herself always described her relationship with Clinton as consensual—even as others described her as a victim.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Clinton’s appeal:
  Lisa Chase: “You just felt that what he loved was intelligence and he liked women.” (01:40)

• On feminists’ self-reflection:
  Lisa Chase: “We were projecting ourselves onto her. It was almost as if a lot of the women in that room felt this is a right that we’d fought for, the right to pursue powerful men and in whatever way, you know, professionally or, you know, sexually.” (03:52)

• Marjorie Williams’ critique:
  The episode references Williams’ observation that the Observer feature showed feminist thinkers “gleefully” overlooking the problematic nature of the power imbalance.

• On the internal divide:
  Narrator: “Today, it’s conventional wisdom that all feminists hypocritically turned their backs on Monica Lewinsky. In fact, the scandal provoked an intense debate within the feminist movement about sex, power, consent, and priorities.” (04:13)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:08 – Lisa Chase describes early Clinton appeal among liberal women.
• 01:40 – Discussion of Clinton’s pro-women policies.
• 02:03 – Chase on the allure and flaws of Clinton.
• 02:28 - 03:52 – The origins and aftermath of the infamous “Would You Sleep With Clinton?” Observer roundtable.
• 04:13 – Marjorie Williams’ Vanity Fair critique and the myth of unanimous feminist support.
• 05:08 – Lisa Chase on feeling defensive about Clinton amid scandal.
• 05:53 – Lisa Chase addresses accusations of feminist double standards.

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Conclusion

This episode paints a vivid picture of the conflicts, cultural currents, and frank conversations among women—especially feminists and liberals—in the midst of the Clinton impeachment. It challenges the simplistic narrative that feminists abandoned Monica Lewinsky, revealing the deep, messy debates about loyalty, power, sex, and priorities that played out inside the movement, and inside American society at large during one of its most divisive political moments.

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Transcript

[Narrator]

The following podcast contains explicit language. Lisa Chase and all her friends loved Bill Clinton from the beginning.

[Lisa Chase]

After a lot of years in the political wilderness, if you were a liberal Democrat In Manhattan in 1993, Bill Clinton was what you dreamed of. You know, that kind of valuable intelligence that he had was like, that was an aphrodisiac for, I think, lots of people, women and men.

[Narrator]

Chase spent the second half of the 1990s working as an editor at the New York Observer, a small weekly newspaper known for covering Manhattan society in columns like Sex and the City, which became an HBO series. Chase was a liberal in her 30s, and as a woman, she always thought of Bill Clinton as being on her side. A lot of feminists did, because, broadly speaking, his policies reflected the agenda of the women's movement. That's not to say all left leaning women saw Clinton as their ally. He had alienated many supporters, particularly women of color, with, with his approach to welfare reform and other issues. Even so, Clinton got credit for being pro choice. During his first week in office, he marked the 20th anniversary of Roe v. Wade by lifting restrictions on abortion that had been put in place by his Republican predecessors. Today I am acting to separate our national health and medical policy from the divisive conflict over abortion. Later, many feminist organizations cheered Clinton for signing legislation like the Violence Against Women act, also for appointing Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the Supreme Court. In her pioneering work in behalf of the women of this country, she has compiled a truly historic record of achievement in the finest tradition, and for installing more women in senior positions than any administration in history.

[Lisa Chase]

He was enthusiastic about working with women. You know, he did not come across as a sexist. You just felt that what he loved was intelligence and he liked women.

[Narrator]

Chase knew that Clinton had a history of sexual indiscretion, but his apparent inability to control himself was almost part of the appeal.

[Lisa Chase]

He was like that guy who was so great but flawed. And you were trying to figure him out, right? You were just trying to unlock it. And if you could unlock it, you could potentially fix him.

[Narrator]

The Monica Lewinsky story broke in January of 1998. About a week later, Chase was at a bar with a bunch of her friends. They were talking about the scandal. The only thing that anyone wanted to talk about.

[Lisa Chase]

One of us said, it might have been me, might have been one of the other women. Well, would you sleep with the president? You know, would you fuck the president? And every woman said, yeah.

[Narrator]

The conversation gave Chase an idea. What if the observer brought together a group of notable New York women and asked Them. The question on the record would they fuck Bill Clinton? Why or why not? The Observer's focus group included Katie Roifi, Erica Zhang, Patricia Marks, and a half dozen others. Each woman was influential in her field, and most of them were somehow involved in the public dialogue around sex. The moderator was Francine Prose, and the location was Le Bernardin, a fancy restaurant in midtown that was chosen in part because it was owned by a woman. The resulting piece ran in February of 1998 under the headline, New York super gals love that naughty prez. At this point, Clinton was still denying that he'd had an affair with Lewinsky, but everyone quoted in the piece pretty much took it for granted that he had, and they didn't care. Patricia Marks talked about how she liked the president more now. Katie Roifi said that this virile president was suddenly fulfilling a forbidden fantasy of an old fashioned, taboo, aggressive male. Erika Zhang declared, I want a president to be alive from the waist down. The through line was that these women were kind of excited for Monica Lewinsky and maybe even a little envious of her.

[Lisa Chase]

We were projecting ourselves onto her. It was almost as if a lot of the women in that room felt this is a right that we'd fought for, the right to pursue powerful men and in whatever way, you know, professionally or, you know, sexually.

[Narrator]

Journalist Marjorie Williams, writing in Vanity Fair, said the observer piece was the most embarrassing thing she had read in a long time. Williams, who died in 2005, called out the women who participated in the roundtable for the gleefully raunchy way in which they had talked about the Clinton Lewinsky affair. Why, williams asked, do feminists find it so hard to acknowledge the ugliness of this arrangement? As Williams piece itself demonstrated, not everyone did. Today, it's conventional wisdom that all feminists hypocritically turn their backs on Monica Lewinsky. In fact, the scandal provoked an intense debate within the feminist movement about sex, power, consent, and priorities. For some, it was obvious that Clinton had victimized Lewinsky and needed to be thrown overboard despite his policies. For others, like Lisa Chase, it was just as obvious that the scandal was part of a political war in which Clinton was the good guy.

[Lisa Chase]

You know, we felt that there was this incredibly ridiculous thing happening and this incredibly dangerous thing happening. And we felt defensive for our president, you know, and we weren't sure what was going to happen. We weren't sure who was going to win.

[Narrator]

It was clear from the beginning how Clinton's enemies were going to react to the Lewinsky revelation. The more interesting question was what would his friends think? What were the arguments and ideas that divided liberals and feminists in particular at the height of the scandal? And what did it mean that Monica Lewinsky herself had always considered her relationship with Clinton to be a consensual love affair? This is Slow Burn. I'm your host Leon Neyfak. Everybody's talking about the feminists and their absence here.

[Lisa Chase]

I think those that would accuse the feminist movement of having a double standard don't understand well what we do as.

[Narrator]

Women continue to talk around the country about the man, the women and the presidency. Episode seven Bedfellows.

[Susan]

Hi again, Susan here. I hope you're finding this story as compelling as we did. I've worked at Slate for nine years and I now serve as executive editor of the magazine. I also hosted season seven of Slow Burn on the history of Roe v. Wade, which was the most thorough and thoughtful journalism I've ever done. For every season, we track down the people who lived through these historic events and find archival material that helps us see these stories in new ways. That work isn't easy or cheap, which is why we depend on Slate plus members to make it happen. Your membership helps us keep making Slow Burn and supports all of Slate's journalism. If you want to hear the rest of this season and support what we do, now's the perfect time to join Slate Plus. You can join directly within Apple, Podcasts and Spotify, or visit slate.com slowburnplus to get access wherever you listen. Thanks so much for listening and for considering becoming a member.

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