Bad Omen

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Dicks – "Bad Omen" (May 22, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this emotionally powerful episode of Small Town Dicks, hosts Yeardley Smith, retired twin detectives Dan and Dave, and forensic expert Paul Holes welcome back Deputy Aaliyah to share a harrowing domestic violence case. The story exposes the real-life challenges faced by first responders, the criminal justice system’s limits, and the tragic consequences that can arise when intervention, even done by the book, cannot overcome the cycle of abuse. The episode follows the case of Julia, a young mother caught in a dangerous relationship with her boyfriend, Brandon, exploring the heartbreak, procedures, and aftermath that result when violence escalates to homicide.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Context (03:31)

• Case Introduction:
  • The team introduces Deputy Aaliyah, a "fan favorite," and explains that this case sheds light on the limits of policing in the context of domestic violence.
  • "This case...really shines a light on this aspect of being a cop when a young woman named Julia calls to report that she's been a victim of domestic violence," says Yeardley Smith. [02:45]

2. The Initial Domestic Violence Call (05:01–09:15)

• Deputy Aaliyah receives a delayed domestic violence call: Julia, age 24/25 with three children, reports an incident that happened hours earlier.
• Incident details:
  • Julia and Brandon, her boyfriend, argued over her use of the car, which escalated into violence.
  • Brandon strangles Julia in their apartment closet, using both his hands and later his forearm.
  • "As Brandon is in the closet choking Julia, Brandon starts to say things to her like, 'f you bitch.' And Julia is starting to lose consciousness." – Deputy Aaliyah [06:35]
• Possessive control: Brandon confiscates Julia's keys and wallet, a common tactic in domestic violence for coercion and control.
  • Dave comments: "These kind of domestic violence DV calls are a dime a dozen...cell phones being taken and hidden. It happens all the time." [09:23]

3. Domestic Violence Patterns and History (11:54–15:10)

• Repeat Behavior:
  • History of prior violence—previous incident at a daycare where Brandon struck and strangled Julia in public.
• Predictors of Lethality:
  • Paul Holes emphasizes: "When a man puts his hands around a woman's neck, that is the biggest predictor for future homicide." [12:27]
  • The hosts discuss the frustration with the legal system’s response: "He got probation for that incident." [15:02]
• Emotional Impact on Law Enforcement:
  • Yeardley: "You're ruining my faith in humanity. Oh, that's too late. It's done." [15:43]

4. Personal Connections & Professional Challenges (15:52–17:18)

• Aaliyah went to high school with Brandon.
• The challenge of policing your own community and encountering acquaintances on the job. Aaliyah: "The amount of people that I have arrested that I went to high school with is disturbing." [16:07–16:28]

5. Julia’s Situation: Pregnancy & Frustration (17:52–18:53)

• Julia is six weeks pregnant with Brandon’s child.
• Ties of parenthood complicate escape from abuse; Brandon knows about the pregnancy and abuses her regardless.
  • Dave’s exclamation: "Oh, man." [17:51]
  • Deputy Aaliyah: "So now we have a situation where Julia and Brandon are connected forever." [17:52]

6. Deputy’s Approach & Empathy (18:53–22:54)

• Unusual support: Aaliyah gives Julia her personal cell number for emergencies, motivated by empathy and her own experience as a new mom.
  • "I had probably like an hour and a half long conversation with Julia, just standing outside of her apartment, just trying to plead with Julia to make it stick." – Deputy Aaliyah [18:53]
• Police process: Attempted to collect video evidence, interviewed Julia, attempted to interview her children.

7. Arrest, Aftermath, and Systemic Challenges (24:40–27:11)

• Aaliyah arrests Brandon at work, feeling productive and hopeful.
• But the justice system stalls: Julia later refuses to cooperate; prosecution is dropped.
  • "I ended up looking up the case and it was no filed. They got no cooperation from the victim." – Deputy Aaliyah [24:40]
• Limitations of prosecution:
  • State can only go so far without the victim testifying.
  • Dave explains: "You have to have the victim get on the stand and say X, Y and Z happened. And if they don't, your case is dead." [25:27]

8. Escalation to Homicide (27:14–41:40)

• Four months later: Brandon's estranged wife Sarah tells police that Brandon called her to say he'd just murdered his girlfriend.
  • "The contact message said that the complainant just got a call from their ex-boyfriend, Brandon, that he just murdered his girlfriend." – Deputy Aaliyah [28:05]
• Deputies respond to Julia’s apartment:
  • No answer; enter under community caretaking/exigent circumstances.
  • They find Julia deceased, face down on her bed with her throat cut.
  • "We find Julia on her bed with her throat slit." – Deputy Aaliyah [34:16]
• Chief concerns: Relief that the children were not present; children found safe at daycare.

9. Investigation Details & Forensics (41:40–44:15)

• Crime scene: Minimal blood evidence; speculation about the manner of killing.
  • Paul Holes: "It's very possible she was just forced face down on the bed and he cut her throat during that motion." [39:00–40:35]
• Managing the scene: Both victim and suspect’s families lived nearby, complicating the investigation.

10. Manhunt & Interrogation (44:25–46:01)

• Brandon apprehended a few hours later near a gas station.
• During questioning, he eventually confesses to the killing, claiming it followed an argument about a tattoo of Sarah's name.
  • "Brandon started choking Julia again...and he believed that he had taken it too far. So Brandon flipped Julia on her stomach and then slit her throat." – Deputy Aaliyah [45:43–45:56]
• Self-serving minimization by Brandon: Dave observes: “This is Brandon. And Brandon comes up with a very self-serving statement to cover for what he's done.” [46:08]

11. Trial and Sentencing (49:20–51:06)

• Brandon is tried and sentenced to life in prison.
  • Despite confessing, he pleads not guilty and goes to trial.
  • Aaliyah’s insight: "He told them in the interview that they were never going to find the knife and they didn't. But he also got charged with tampering with physical evidence." [49:49]
  • Paul Holes explains legal maneuvering: "During the entire time leading up to trial, Brandon's attorney is trying to get any admissions to the facts of the crime thrown out…" [50:12]

12. Systemic and Societal Reflections (52:00–54:44)

• Repeat cycles and frustration for law enforcement.
• Barriers to escape: The challenge for women attempting to leave abusive relationships: lack of resources, fear, shame, control.
  • Aaliyah describes keeping emergency supplies in her car to help victims leave immediately.
  • Paul’s plea: “Don’t rely on a piece of paper. The restraining order. You do not let him know where you are going to be if you want to be able to try to maximize your ability to survive.” [53:07]
• Empathy and the weight of police work:
  • "It's not all running and gunning...it's just now recently been a topic of conversation of actually taking some time to decompress and work through your feelings from these very not normal things that are happening to you on patrol." – Deputy Aaliyah [57:47]

13. Aftermath for Julia’s Children (58:32)

• Children are believed to have moved in with family.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the emotional toll on officers:
  "You kind of get attached. And then I'm...I'm a new mom, and I'm now. I'm thinking, now four babies don't have a mom. Julia's gone. And I tried. I really tried to get through to her. I mean, I'm well aware that I can't save the world." – Deputy Aaliyah [37:55]
• On the predictors of escalation:
  "When a man puts his hands around a woman's neck, that is the biggest predictor for future homicide." – Paul Holes [12:27]
• On the justice system's limitations:
  "You've come into the feeling of helplessness that infects so many law enforcement officers, where you're just like, that's all they get, really?" – Dave [15:31]
• On victim’s struggle to escape:
  "You hear a lot of times people are like, well, why didn't they just leave? You're like, well, it's just not that easy." – Deputy Aaliyah [56:05]
• On empathy and policing:
  "I think it's called empathy." – Yardley [37:49]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | | --- | --- | --- | | Introduction & Theme | Yeardley introduces the episode & special guest | 02:32–05:01 | | Julia’s Case: DV Call Details | Deputy Aaliyah’s first interaction with Julia | 05:01–09:15 | | History of Abuse & Lethality Predictors | Prior assault at daycare; expert insights | 11:54–13:48 | | Legal System Frustrations | Probation, no filing, victim non-cooperation | 15:22–27:14 | | Return: Homicide Call | Julia found murdered; search and discovery | 28:05–41:59 | | Manhunt & Brandon’s Confession | Arrest, interview, Brandon’s story | 44:25–46:01 | | Trial & Sentencing | Legal strategies and verdict | 49:20–51:37 | | Reflections on Victims and Systemic Barriers | Empathy, prevention, societal context | 52:00–58:44 | | Aftermath for Children | Children’s fate after Julia's death | 58:32–58:48 |

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Tone & Language

The episode maintains the trademark Small Town Dicks combination of blunt honesty, professional insight, and deep compassion. The hosts and guests use candid, plainspoken language, balancing procedural expertise with emotional reflection. There’s a special focus on the emotional burden officers carry, and an unflinching examination of the limits of policing and prosecuting domestic violence.

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Summary Takeaways

• Domestic violence lethality: Strangulation is viewed as a major indicator of potential future homicide in abusive relationships.
• Cycle of violence and legal system inadequacies: Despite arrests and clear patterns of violence, perpetrators often evade serious punishment until tragedy occurs.
• Challenges for victims: Practical, emotional, and economic barriers make leaving abusers incredibly difficult, despite obvious risk.
• Empathy and advocacy: Officers like Deputy Aaliyah strive to make a difference, but are repeatedly challenged by systemic limitations and the complex realities victims face.
• Case outcome: Julia’s tragic death, despite prior interventions, underlines the urgent need for more robust societal and systemic responses to domestic violence.

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Final Note:
This deeply personal episode highlights the daily complexities faced by police and victims in small towns everywhere—full of nuance, frustration, compassion, and realism. It’s a sobering reminder of both the stakes and limits of law enforcement in the ongoing struggle to protect vulnerable individuals from lethal domestic abuse.

Transcript

[Dan]

Want to keep up with everything trendy?

[Dave]

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[Dan]

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[Deputy Aaliyah]

Want to get more work done with less effort? On TikTok, creators are sharing AI automation tips that save time and deliver better results. Tap to discover. Try TikTok now.

[Yardley]

Hey small town fam, it's Yardley. I want to remind you that if you want access to bonus episodes and regular episodes a day early and ad free and our community forum and other behind the scenes goodies, you gotta go to smalltowndicks.com superfam and then in the top right hand corner, hit that little tab that says join. And then listen to the end of today's episode for a sneak peek at today's new bonus episode. Hey, small town fam, it's Yeardley. How are you guys doing? Oh, I hope you're great. I really hope you're great. Today's case comes to us from fan favorite deputy Aaliyah. If you're new to the podcast, you're gonna love Aleeyah. If you're a longtime listener, then you know that for the next hour, you are in excellent hands. After eight years of doing this podcast, I often wonder what it's like to be a first responder whose job description is basically to help people get to the other side of a bad situation, big or small. The caveat, the thing they don't teach you in any academy is that even when you do everything right, the best laid plans can go awry. Of course, that journey is not unique to first responders. Lots of situations in life are like that, but when lives are literally at stake, the going awry part feels so much more consequential. The case Aaliyah brings us today really shines a light on this aspect of being a cop when a young woman named Julia calls to report that she's been a victim of domestic violence. In gathering all of Julia's information, Alia spends quite a bit of time with her and ends up giving Julia her personal cell phone number. This is not something Alia was in the habit of doing, but there was just something about the terrified young woman in front of her who seemed a vulnerable that made Alia want to do everything she could to keep her safe. Here is bad oatmen. Hi there. I'm Yeardley.

[Dan]

I'm Dan.

[Dave]

I'm Dave.

[Paul Holes]

And I'm Paul.

[Yardley]

And this is Small Town Gigs.

[Dan]

Dave and I are identical twins and

[Dave]

retired detectives from Small Town USA and

[Paul Holes]

I'm a veteran cold case investigator who helped catch the Golden State killer using a revolutionary DNA tool.

[Dan]

Between the three of us, we've investigated thousands of crimes, from petty theft to sexual assault, child abuse to murder.

[Dave]

Each case we cover is told by the detective who investigated it, offering a rare personal account of how they solved the crime.

[Paul Holes]

Names, places, and certain details have been changed to protect the privacy of victims and their families.

[Dan]

And although we're aware that some of our listeners may be familiar with these cases, we ask you to please join us in continuing to protect the true identities of those involved out of respect

[Dave]

for what they've been through.

[Yardley]

Thank you. Today on Small Town Dicks, I'm gonna do it straight. We have the usual suspects. How straight was that? It was so straight. Oh, I couldn't do it. I couldn't. I'm sorry. We have Detective Dan.

[Dan]

Hey, there.

[Yardley]

Hey there. We have Detective Dave.

[Dave]

Hello, there.

[Yardley]

Hello there. You're over there. I'm over here. Sadly, we're not in the same zip code today, and we have the one and only Paul Holes.

[Paul Holes]

Hi, there.

[Yardley]

Hi there. I'm so happy to see you, Pete.

[Paul Holes]

I'm happy to be here.

[Yardley]

I'm happy to have you. And small town fam, we are so excited to welcome back to the podcast your fan favorite and our favorite deputy Aaliyah.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Hello.

[Yardley]

Hi, Aliyah. It's so great to see you again. We love having you.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

It's great to be here. Thank you.

[Yardley]

You're wonderful. You've done this several times now with us, and it's always superb. So I'm just gonna turn it over to you and ask you how this case came to you.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Thank you. So this case came to me. I was working patrol. I was on night shift, and I got a call, and it was a domestic violence delayed call for service.

[Yardley]

What is that?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

A domestic violence delayed call is someone who calls in and describes that they have been in some sort of domestic situation, but it is not currently ongoing. It happened earlier in the day or maybe the day before or a couple days before, but it's not something that's active right then and there.

[Yardley]

And is there a time limit in terms like a statute of limitations? It can't have happened longer than a week ago or something like that.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

We will investigate any domestic violence incident. So there's not really a time limit to it. Some of the time limit would differentiate whether it's, like, in progress, delayed, or, like, active right then and there. So that would differentiate somewhat. But in this case, it had happened several hours earlier. Right So I went to an apartment complex, and I met with my victim, and her name is Julia. I met with her outside of her apartment, and she is a younger female. I think she was like 24 or 25 at the time. And Julia already had three children, so she started kind of early. I think her oldest was seven at the time that I made contact with her. I actually had dealt with Julia several times in the past because she worked at that apartment complex, and it was one of my frequent flyer apartment complexes. So she worked for the front office, and I had seen her, talked to her, been around her a couple times, dealing with other issues. When I made contact with Julia that evening, it was, like I said, very early in my shift. I think it was probably like one of my first calls. She was outside of her apartment complex, and I met with her. She had her three kids outside. So I was like, hey, is there anybody that can take your kids inside while we talk about this? Because I already knew that it was domestic violence related, and I didn't want to go through those conversations with her in front of the kids. The oldest, being a little bit older, just kind of took the kids inside while I stood outside and had the conversation with her. Julia started to tell me that she was in an argument with her boyfriend, Brandon, and they had started arguing about the use of her vehicle. So she took the vehicle out that day with her mom and her sister to run some errands and kind of quote, unquote, stranded Brandon at the house without a vehicle, because he doesn't have a vehicle, no mode of transportation. But Brandon works close by at a fast food joint, like right across the street from the apartment complex that they're staying in. So I start talking to her, and Julia starts telling me that when she got back from running errands with her mom and her sister, her and Brandon started arguing. And during that argument, Brandon took her keys and her wallet as kind of collateral for taking the vehicle. Earlier in the day, they kind of go back and forth, and Brandon eventually strangles her within the closet of their master bedroom. As Brandon is in the closet choking Julia, Brandon starts to say things to her like, f you bitch. And Julia is starting to lose consciousness. As soon as Brandon realizes that Julia's starting to lose consciousness, he lets go of her, kind of lets her come back to. Brandon leaves the master bedroom and then comes back into the master bedroom and starts engaging with Julia again. Brandon then uses his forearm to kind of push Julia up against the wall and choke her some more. And eventually he let Go of her and left the apartment. Julia follows Brandon out of the apartment, and they live across the street from Walmart. Of course, they go over to that parking lot, continuing to argue, and she kind of follows him over there.

[Dave]

Does Brandon still have her belongings at this point?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

He does. He has her keys and he has her wallet, and he takes that over to the Walmart parking lot.

[Dave]

And yeardley. These kind of domestic violence DV calls are a dime a dozen where you've got cell phones being taken and hidden. It happens all the time.

[Yardley]

Oh, obviously as a measure of control. Right, right. The aggressor trying to control the victim.

[Dave]

Yep.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Eventually, Julia goes back across the street to her apartment. Most of Julia's family, and I think because she worked at the apartment complex, like front office, lived in that apartment complex as well. So when Julia came back over to the apartment, she saw her brother and her cousin, and Julia basically told them what was going on. And her brother and her cousin went across the street back with her to confront Brandon. When they confronted Brandon, Brandon gave Julia back her keys in her wallet. Brandon came back to the apartment, got his work stuff for the fast food joint that he works at across the street, goes to work. Brandon goes to work. Julia then calls the sheriff's office, and that's when I arrive. So I'm outside talking to Julia, and I can see some redness still on her neck. And I get the story from Julia, and I'm having this conversation with her, kind of trying to wrap my head around what's going on. I get another unit to go over to Walmart to try to see if they can pull the video from where they are in the parking lot, because most of the time it's he said, she said. And you really don't have a full picture of what's going on unless there's some sort of video available. It kind of helps you put the whole picture together. So I figured if there was some video at Walmart, then it might be helpful for me to see what happened in the parking lot over there. I run Julia's name, I run Brandon's name in our system to try to get an idea of exactly what their history is with each other, what their history is with our agency and our surrounding agencies. I see that a couple months earlier, Julia and Brandon got into an altercation while dropping off two of Julia's children at daycare. So there was an argument that happened in their residence prior to Julie and Brandon leaving to take her kids. They're not Brandon's kids. Her kids to Daycare, the argument continued. And when they pulled into the parking lot at the daycare, Julie and Brandon got out, and Brandon hit her in the face and then proceeded to start

[Yardley]

choking her in front of daycare. Brandon is choking Julia, broad daylight. Okay. In front of the kids, in front of other people's kids, parents. I can't.

[Dave]

People do this all the time where they don't have the argument in their apartment. It continues all the way to daycare in front of witnesses who are also dropping their kids off. Like, this is the impulse control and the ability to be reasoned with, where folks who generate a lot of police activity, this is their normal.

[Paul Holes]

I want to address something here about the acts that Brandon is doing on Julia. When a man puts his hands around a woman's neck, that is the biggest predictor for future homicide. And in essence, any woman that is in a relationship with a man who does that to her, she needs to get out of that relationship asap. So now you're seeing Brandon not only just choking Julia to the point where she's feeling like she's losing consciousness, he's choking her out in public. You know, this is a relationship in which now law enforcement has to intercede in, or Julia's going to likely end up dead at some point in the future.

[Yardley]

Oh, my God.

[Dave]

Yeah. When Aaliyah mentioned the strangulation stuff, I immediately thought back to my own experience and what Paul just described as hearing that statistic, that that's one of the greatest predictors of future homicidal violence is strangulation in a domestic relationship.

[Yardley]

I. I never heard that before. That's fascinating.

[Dave]

Yeah. When you go out on DV calls, we spend a lot of time about obstructed airways and. And strangulation and. And past acts. And has it escalated over time? Because then you get a real idea of where did it start and how bad has it gotten to now, where you have multiple police officers coming to your house.

[Paul Holes]

And I don't know how a DA Would actually charge the strangulation aspect, but in essence, it's attempt homicide. Brandon just stopped. Right. So it's a very serious crime.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

In that report, Julia said that Brandon choked her for approximately 30 seconds. And this was called in by two witnesses that did not know Julia and Brandon. Julia never called this into law enforcement, which led me to believe that Julia is very used to this behavior. This is not something new or shocking to her. This is kind of run of the mill behavior from Brandon. So when the deputies in that investigation got on scene, a couple other deputies Circulated the area. After Julia had dropped off her kids in daycare, Julia followed Brandon down to a park down the street.

[Yardley]

On foot or in the car?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

On foot.

[Yardley]

On foot. Okay.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

So the deputies in that investigation made contact with both of them, and Brandon was ultimately arrested for domestic violence, strangulation. In that first incident that we had responded to, dealing with Julia and Brandon

[Dave]

at the daycare center.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

At the daycare center. So in that situation, Julie and Brandon went to court, and Brandon was found guilty, and he was given probation. Although Brandon had a slew of other charges, starting from when he was a very young adult. He got probation for that incident.

[Yardley]

How do you square that probation? Everybody's just shrugging and sort of smirking at me knowingly.

[Dan]

Just the way it is.

[Dave]

You've come into the feeling of helplessness that. That infects so many law enforcement officers, where you're just like, that's all they get, really? And you get 50 of those in your career, and you're like, yeah, that's all it gets.

[Yardley]

You're ruining my faith in humanity. Oh, that's too late. It's done.

[Dave]

You just gotta let the medicine work. Hardly.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

It's very frustrating. It is.

[Paul Holes]

Aaliyah, how old is Brandon and Julia?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Brandon was a couple years older, so Brandon, I think, was around 28, because I actually went to high school with Brandon.

[Paul Holes]

Oh.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah. So I knew Brandon from high school. We were not friends. We didn't really run in the same circles, But I definitely did know him and recognize him from high school. So we were just about the same age. And that's what comes with working where you grew up. The amount of people that I have arrested that I went to high school with is disturbing.

[Dave]

You should just keep your yearbook in your trunk, and every time you get one.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Hey, hey.

[Dave]

Open up to page 73 and sign your name.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah, I maybe shouldn't have chosen the jurisdiction in which I lived and grew up my entire life, but here we are.

[Paul Holes]

Got the high school senior photo, and you got the mug shot side by side.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Several of them, yes. Several of them. Like, hey, nice to see you. Sorry I got to take you to jail today.

[Dave]

So, Aaliyah, in speaking with Julia, the current call. That is a delayed domestic violence call, and Brandon's at work. Are you getting from Julia that she's kind of over this? She's tired of this shit, and this is why she's calling the police, because it has to end. And are you getting a straight story from her? Because those can kind of wander sometimes.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yes. So it's Funny you asked that, because this is, I think, an important part of the entire investigation. Julia, I think, was very over Brandon's nonsense at this point. I would venture to say there was a lot of situations in between the one a few months prior and the one that I was responding to right then and there. And Julia seemed as if she was just over it. However, Julia was six weeks pregnant with Brandon's child.

[Dave]

Oh, man.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

So now we have a situation where Julia and Brandon are connected forever. Brandon knew that Julia was pregnant. He had found out that Sunday prior

[Dave]

that she was pregnant and still strangles her multiple times.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Still strangles her multiple times, which enhances my charges. Julia can tell me when and where and how she told Brandon that she was pregnant. And he knew she had already gotten a confirmation that she was pregnant. And like I said, this was her now fourth child.

[Yardley]

Was Brandon happy about this news that Julia's pregnant?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

I don't know. I do recall, like, asking her what Brandon's affect was when Julia told him. And it seemed as if that they were happy that they were having a child together. The other three children were all Julia's. They were not Brandon's. But Brandon did have children with another woman who he was currently married to. Oh, yes.

[Yardley]

Oh, well, there's that. Okay.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

She comes up later in the investigation a little bit. So as I'm talking to Julia, I was a fairly new mom at the time, so I have that, like, new mom feels. You know, I'm starting to look through life in a little bit of a different lens when it comes to dealing with people and understanding kind of how difficult it is to get out of situations when you're tied to people with children and all of those kind of different facets that come along with entering children into a relationship. And it's no longer just you and that person trying to figure out whatever difficulties between the two of you. So I sat there with Julia for a very long time, talking to her about exactly what Paul was saying. Like, strangulation is one of the top indicators of homicide. I had probably like an hour and a half long conversation with Julia, just standing outside of her apartment, just trying to plead with Julia to make it stick, to hold to what she knew to be the doing the right thing, whether it was hard or not. I actually gave Julia my personal cell phone at the time, which I would have never done. And I'm honestly not really sure why I even did it that day. We didn't have work cell phones at the time. We do now. But I was like, I will be here to support you. And I think it had a lot to do with that new mom. Like, I see her, she was so young and I just stood outside with her. I knew that Brandon was at work, so I knew I had a little bit of time and I really wanted to make an impact on Julia because so often we go to these calls and you have these heart to hearts and you take the moment to talk to people, but it doesn't stick. So Julia was all in. She's like, I'm sick of him. He knows I'm pregnant. He's strangled me before. We have a really bad relationship. He's very controlling in what I do, he's very controlling in what I wear. Brandon is. And I felt like I got through to Julia and I think that's probably why I ended up giving her my phone number to be like, hey, just call me directly. If there's issues and I'm working, I can be there. And if I'm not working, I can call somebody else that can be there, so just call me. So the deputy that went over to Walmart, there was nobody there that could access the cameras at that time, which is unheard of because typically Walmart has loss prevention on lock 24 7. Walmart has probably the best loss prevention and camera systems available. So I was like, well, Julia signed a sworn statement. I believe what she's saying to me. She has marks on her neck. It all kind of checks out. I attempted to interview the children, but they were not very forthcoming with any sort of information. So I was like, well, I'm going to Brandon's work right across the street. I'm going to go pick up Brandon, right? Because at this point I have a strangulation of a pregnant female, domestic battery. So I'm like, I'll easily go pick Brandon up at work. So I left Julia, I got all my pictures, I got my sworn statements, I got everything from Julia and I grabbed my Zone partner. I was like, hey, let's go pop over to this fast food joint and let's go try to pick up Brandon. So I go over there and I asked to speak to Brandon. He's a cook in the back. And he comes out, I read him his Miranda rights and he says, yeah, I'll talk to you. I was like, okay. He tells me that he did nothing to Julia, he didn't touch her. Of course he does tell me that he didn't know that she was pregnant. Basically denied everything. He's been through this before, right? He's already on Probation for this exact same thing. He knows the game. So I said, well, today you're going to jail. He was cooperative. He didn't give me any trouble. So I arrest him, take him to jail. I'm like, I got through to Julia. I went and picked up my suspect. This is great. Like I'm, you know, number one cop tonight, right. I'm feeling good about myself.

[Dan]

Foreign.

[Dave]

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[Deputy Aaliyah]

So I do like to follow up on my cases. And I hadn't heard anything from either Brandon or Julia for a little while. So I ended up looking up the case and it was no filed. They got no cooperation from the victim.

[Yardley]

So Julia refused to testify?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yes. They could not get in contact with her.

[Yardley]

Oh.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

In our state, in a typical domestic violence situation, if the victim does not want to be the victim, the state will come in and be the victim until it goes to any sort of actual legal proceedings. And then they need cooperation from the actual victim. So I would have the ability to make an arrest and to charge on the behalf of the state. But then moving forward, you would need the victim to actually cooperate with the investigation because they got to get up

[Dave]

on the stand and tell the jury what happened in this room and this closet. And without that, you can't have the arresting officer just read their PC affidavit because it's all as relayed to them by the victim. So you have to have the victim get on the stand and say X, Y and Z happened. And if they don't, your case is dead.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Exactly.

[Yardley]

And Aaliyah Brandon, when he is arrested for the domestic violence incident outside daycare, he gets a suspended sentence. There's no provision attached to that that if he gets arrested for the same crime or worse, that that means then he's going to go to jail.

[Dave]

A probation violation can involve a sanction of like 5 days, 10 days, 60 days, where you go get sent back into jail and you're in a timeout for a period of time, or if you're on a downward departure, a suspended sentence and you commit a crime, then you could get sent to prison for whatever your sentence was going to be. So your suspended sentence is now active and you go away for whatever. Probation violations typically don't involve more than a few days. And jail is like a slap, like, hey, knock it off.

[Dan]

And sometimes the probation is unsupervised. So you don't actually have a probation officer. It's basically court supervision.

[Yardley]

And what, you're on an honor system?

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Well, basically, if you get convicted of another crime, that conviction would prompt a violation of the probation. There's just a lot of. A lot of gears in play here.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

So I did violate his probation, but without the victim cooperating on that new charge, that violation goes away.

[Yardley]

Have you come in contact with Julieann Brandon since?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

So I had not. And it had been about, I think six or eight months, ish. When I looked up the case and realized that Julia no filed and she didn't cooperate with the state. So flash forward about four months. We were working, and a contact message popped up in the system for Julia's address. And it's a transfer from a local police department that is close to us. So they called that police department, that police department realized that the call was actually in our jurisdiction. And the contact message said that the complainant just got a call from their ex boyfriend, Brandon, that he just murdered his girlfriend.

[Yardley]

Oh, God.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

So Brandon and his wife had not been together for a long time.

[Yardley]

Oh. Brandon's estranged wife called in this tip about the murder?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yes, yes. So we're all kind of on high alert because I knew their history, I knew Julia and Brandon's history, and I was like, well, this is definitely possible. We need to get over there, like immediately. So my zone partner and I and my recruit at the time and a couple other deputies, we all got together and we went to the front leasing office because we knew that Julia worked at the front office. One of the deputies goes and meets a maintenance worker at that front leasing office, says, hey, is Julia working right now? And they said, no, actually, she's off today. Today's her off day. So we're like, okay. I said, well, is Julia still living in this apartment, the one that we already believed that she lived at? Because we didn't have an address for her, we didn't know exactly where she was. We were just kind of guessing off of the contact message and then what we had for Julia in the system. So the maintenance worker said, yeah, Julia still works there. It's her day off, she should be there. So myself and a couple of their deputies kind of gathered together and went to Julia's apartment. Julia's apartment is on the second story of a two story apartment complex. They're very, very small apartment complexes, like, almost like efficiency apartments. It was Brandon, Julia and the three children all living in this very, very small space. So we get up there, we start knocking on the door. We don't get any answer. So my zone partner kind of checks the door handle and it's unlocked. So we're like, okay, well, guess we're going in.

[Yardley]

And you're allowed to go in.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

We have exigent circumstances at this point. The comments in the call, and nobody's in contact with her. The apartment is wide open. We have the ability to go in there and check and make sure that she's okay. And it's not like we're busting down the door or anything like that. The apartment's already unlocked.

[Dave]

It's a community caretaking search without a warrant.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yes. My sergeant was there at the time as well. And he was like, go in. We've got plenty enough. Let's go. And while we're doing this, we're also trying to get in contact with that other agency to get back in contact with the complainant and ask more questions and get a little bit more answers. So we weren't sure if Brandon was in the apartment still. We didn't know where he was at the time. We just know that Brandon called his wife saying that he murdered his girlfriend. So we're trying to get in contact with the wife to say, hey, where is Brandon at? Because if Brandon is in this apartment, that's a big problem for us because Brandon's saying that he's murdered Julia and he could be in here with her, which is not a surprise that we want.

[Yardley]

And Aaliyah, what's the wife's name?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

The wife's name is Sarah. So we open the door, we make a few more announcements. The apartment basically opens up to one, like, living room slash dining room. It's all kind of combined into one. There's a small kitchen, like, off to the left. There is a long hallway with one bedroom on the right and a master bedroom at the end of the hallway that's connected to a bathroom. That bathroom is also connected to a door in the hallway, so it connects both the hallway and the master bedroom. So I know from my prior contacts with Julia that she at least has three children, probably four at this point, because it had been long enough that Julia had probably given birth and in

[Yardley]

this case, to Brandon's child.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

To Brandon's child. So I'm thinking there's potentially four other children in this apartment. So the apartment was really, really cluttered. There was a lot of, like, kids, toys everywhere. It was in disarray. It was very dirty, but it looked like they just kind of lived that way. It didn't look like any sort of struggle had occurred. It was just kind of the way of their life versus, like, it was dirty because they were struggling all through the apartment or it was bloody all through the apartment or anything like that. It looked fairly normal for their lifestyle. So we get in and we start clearing. There's not a whole lot to clear. So we're pieing off the corner of the hallway, because the way that the living room kind of opens, it gave us a spot to pie the hallway to see what we could see down the hallway.

[Yardley]

And that means you're, like, sectioning off segments of a circle, basically, or segments of whatever your area is covering so that everybody gets a section kind of thing.

[Dan]

Yeah, it's a technique we use to maintain cover or concealment and still get gradually increasing view of a room.

[Dave]

It's like peeking out behind the door jamb where you're freaked out and you heard a bump in the night, and you look out your bedroom door and you're trying to see more of the hallway.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

That's.

[Dave]

That's what you're doing.

[Yardley]

I'm pieing.

[Dave]

Yeah, you're pieing the hallway.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

You didn't even know you were doing it.

[Yardley]

Didn't even know.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

You're so tactical, yeardley.

[Yardley]

I'm gonna be okay.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah. You utilize it to keep most of your body behind whatever cover concealment that you have. And you can kind of utilize angles to try to see as far as you can without exposing a lot of your body.

[Yardley]

Right.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

So as we're pying off the hallway, we can see what appears to be feet at the end of the hallway and they're kind of hanging off the bed, but we can only see feet. We can't really see past that. So we're like, well, we gotta go. So we start moving. We quickly clear the room to the right, which appears to be a child's bedroom. It's got just a couple mattresses on the floor. It's pretty messy. We can clear that pretty quickly and then continue down the hallway. And we find Julia on her bed with her throat slit.

[Yardley]

Yeah.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah.

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[Deputy Aaliyah]

So Julia was laying on the bed face down and I quickly threw on a pair of gloves and grabbed her wrist, and she was just completely cold to the touch. There's no movement from her. The way that Julia was laying, I couldn't see that part of her neck. I just could see that Julia was laying face down on the bed, and she just wasn't moving.

[Yardley]

So you couldn't see the incision?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

I couldn't at first, but she wasn't moving. So I threw on a pair of gloves really quickly because I was like, if we need to start some sort of life saving measures or whatever, I want to have gloves on. And I grabbed her wrist, and she was very cold to the touch. So I was like, mm. So I kind of went around the other side of the bed, and you could see, because her head was a little bit tilted, that she had a very large laceration to her neck. And I was just like, I can't even describe the feeling because although you don't know these people on a personal level, you do form some type of relationship with them. And I. I can't really describe that very well, but I'm sure you guys can understand where I'm coming from.

[Dave]

You're invested in the outcome.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah.

[Dave]

With folks that really like, when it gets beyond the. Just taking the facts in the report and you're like, you know what? Screw Brandon. He's being an. This woman's got kids and she's tired of your. It's just natural to get invested in those cases. So, you know, I've got lots that I was invested in. None of them had this kind of outcome. But, like, when you have a big heart and you're compassionate and you like helping people, that's the byproduct.

[Yardley]

I think it's called empathy.

[Dave]

Oh.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Oh, there's a word.

[Yardley]

I don't know.

[Dave]

Thank you, Yardley.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Call me crazy. Yeah. You kind of get attached. And then I'm. Like I said, I'm a new mom, and I'm now. I'm thinking, now four babies don't have a mom. Julia's gone. And I tried. I really tried to get through to her. I mean, I'm well aware that I can't save the world. I can't get through to everybody. You can probably get through to a handful of people in your entire career, but it just. It hurts. So we cleared the rest of the apartment, and Brandon was nowhere to be found.

[Dave]

And no sign of the kids.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

No sign of the kids. Kids were not there as well, which was a blessing.

[Dave]

Yeah. Was there a knife anywhere in the room?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

There was not.

[Dan]

Was there a lot of blood in Julia's bedroom.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

There was not. There was a lot of blood on her bed right underneath her, but there was no other blood at all in the apartment, Paul.

[Yardley]

Yeah, I would have thought, like, cutting a major artery like that would spray blood all over the ceiling or something.

[Dave]

Well, if she's face down is what I'm picturing, somebody grabs her by her hair, pulls her neck up, and from behind.

[Paul Holes]

This is where the details from the autopsy are important. But based off of Aleeyah's, you know, visually not seeing blood, Imagine if you have Brandon and Julia face to face. Brandon's armed with a knife. Julia's trying to fight off the knife. Now, you have defensive injuries to the forearms, to the hands. Now she's casting off a lot of blood on the walls, on the furniture, whatever else, before her throat is cut. I can eliminate that type of activity based on the lack of blood patterns that Aaliyah is seeing inside the bedroom. Now it's a matter of, do I see any blood flows? This is where it's so critical to evaluate, you know, what is present in terms of the blood patterns that might be hidden as Julia is laying face down on the bed. So once I get to a point to where I'm working with the death investigator and we're turning Julia over to document the underside, which is her front, Do I see evidence of blood flows indicating she was upright when her throat was cut? It's very possible she was just forced face down on the bed and he cut her throat during that motion. And now all that's happening is Julia is just bleeding out, forming a blood pool on the bed. And that sounds consistent with what Aleeyah's observations are.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah, Paul is right on the money.

[Dan]

The consideration here now is now you found Julia, you've confirmed that she is deceased, and now you gotta back out. Yes, because Brandon has a right to privacy inside that apartment.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Absolutely.

[Yardley]

Even though he killed his girlfriend, that doesn't supersede his right to privacy.

[Dan]

Your job in the community, caretaking and going inside to check on Julia is just that. You're checking on Julia. It's complete now. And any evidence that you find now, it has to be found under the execution of a search Warrant.

[Yardley]

Okay?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

That's 100% right. And so then the work starts. Right, but like I said, Julia had a lot of family members that lived in that apartment complex. So did Brandon, actually. So it became kind of difficult managing our crime scene with the families that were right across the street. So we had to have several different deputies in different places. Kind of managing the crime scene as well as now. We're on the hunt for Brandon. We need to find Brandon.

[Dave]

And the kids.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

And the kids. We need to locate the kids as well. Yes. So luckily, our deputies were able to locate all of the children. They were all at their different daycares, and they were all safe and sound at their daycares. They had dropped them off that morning because I guess Brandon and Julia both had the day off.

[Dave]

It gives you a timeline of. We know she was alive at this point. So it happened in this window of time. And this gives us how long has Brandon been on the run?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Absolutely. Absolutely. So the other law enforcement agency that originated this call, this contact message, was Sarah, was in contact with Sarah, and they were trying to get any information that Sarah had on Brandon's whereabouts. Ultimately, I believe our police department within our jurisdiction located Brandon outside of a gas station within their jurisdiction, and they placed him under arrest.

[Yardley]

Just sort of going about his day. Brandon was.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Brandon was just hanging out outside the gas station. They found him out there.

[Paul Holes]

You mentioned Brandon had fairly substantial criminal history. Do you remember the types of crimes

[Deputy Aaliyah]

that he had previously done in 2000, which. In 2000, I was 10, so that means he was around 10. He had. Throwing a deadly missile into a building.

[Yardley]

I'm sorry, Brandon threw a deadly missile into a building. Is that like a Molotov cocktail? What are you talking about?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

I'm not sure.

[Dave]

I have actually seen that charge. I've heard of it on maybe Dateline or the first 48. And in that case, a Molotov cocktail is one of the examples. And the other one was somebody threw an M80 into an apartment and it started a fire. And that guy got charged with throwing a deadly missile or something. Something that has gunpowder and flame and explos. I'm probably butchering it, but that's the idea.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

It's something along those lines. I can't look at really anything of it because he was a child at the time. That was actually no filed. Imagine that. Petit theft, possession of cannabis. The petit theft was no filed battery.

[Dan]

So, Aaliyah, you went to high school with Brandon. What was his reputation in high school? Do you have interactions with him in high school?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

I didn't have interactions. Too many interactions with him because, like I said, we didn't really run in the same circles. But in high school, Brandon and his brother were just kind of jovial, just kind of played around, didn't really take things too serious. I definitely didn't think that I would be working a Homicide that he was involved in.

[Dave]

What was the time delay between you guys clearing the apartment, confirming Julia's death and Brandon being found across town?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Brandon was picked up a couple hours later. It was fairly quick.

[Dave]

Did he have Julia's vehicle or.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

No, he was on foot. I believe that Sarah ended up picking him up from a location and then dropping him at that gas station. And that was where she told law enforcement was the last place she had contact with him.

[Dave]

We like Sarah.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah, she did a good job. So Brandon was eventually picked up and went back to our station to be interviewed. At first he denied everything and Brandon said he didn't know where Julia was. They dropped the kids off. Brandon and Julia went their separate ways. And then eventually, after some time in the interview room, he admitted to having an argument with her the night prior because of a tattoo of Sarah's name on his arm. I believe that argument between him and Julia kind of spilled into the next morning. Julia and Brandon took the kids to daycare and then came back to the apartment where the argument continued. Brandon says that Julia got the knife to say that she was gonna cut the tattoo off of his arm. And in that argument, Brandon started choking Julia again. And eventually Julia lost consciousness while he was choking her. And Julia started making some sounds and acting a little bit differently than the other times that Brandon had choked her. And he believed that he had taken it too far. So Brandon flipped Julia on her stomach and then slit her throat.

[Yardley]

Cause that's the obvious solution too. I think I took the choking too far this time.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

He said that he did not want her to call the police. He did not want Julia to call the police on him again.

[Dave]

Now, again, this is Brandon. And Brandon comes up with a very self serving statement to cover for what he's done to Julia. Always take those statements with a grain of salt because chances are it's about 30% true. I mean, Julia, that piece of this is really frustrating, but also it's complex that getting out stuff. I'm most happy that the kids weren't pulled into this with violence. That's where I was worried that it was going to.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah. My zone partner is like one of my best friends in the whole world. And we've been through a lot on patrol together. And you should have seen the relief on our faces when. And that sounds. That sounds bad.

[Yardley]

No, it makes complete sense.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

We were very concerned about the exact same thing.

[Dave]

Take the wins where you can get them, right?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah.

[Yardley]

Are you really buying a car online on autotrader right now?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Really?

[Yardley]

At a playground yeah.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Really? Look at these listings from dealers.

[Yardley]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Really?

[Yardley]

And you just put in your info and boom. Cars in your budget.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Mom needs a second.

[Yardley]

Honey, you can really have it delivered.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car. Mommy, look.

[Yardley]

I think.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

I think your kid is walking up the slide, Kyle. Again?

[Paul Holes]

Really?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Auto trader. Buy your car online. Really?

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[Dave]

Apro vecha los ahoros de Memorial Day in Los y compra los vasicos pare lo gar pormenos ahoro centadolares en la parria agas de cuatro que madores Char broil Performance Series. So what happened to Brandon?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

So Brandon went to trial and Brandon was sentenced to life.

[Yardley]

I'm always curious about this. Brandon admits to slitting Julia's throat and therefore killing her. But Brandon then pleads not guilty in court and goes to trial.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

He did. He went to trial and he was found guilty and he got life in prison.

[Yardley]

Does Brandon hope that despite that admission, I'm going to take my chances with a jury?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

I think Brandon is a narcissist and thinks that he will win or get off. Because the thing is, he had gotten off many times before. Cases had been no filed. He had gotten a slap on the wrist and I'm fairly certain he thought that that was probably something that was going to happen. He told them in the interview that they were never going to find the knife and they didn't. But he also got charged with tampering with physical evidence.

[Yardley]

So.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, during the entire time leading up to trial, Brandon's attorney is trying to get any admissions to the facts of the crime thrown out for whatever reason. You know, it could be Miranda violations. It could be coercion. In essence, Brandon's attorney is going to try to weaken the case as much as possible so the jury doesn't hear those important facts being uttered by Brandon himself.

[Dan]

There's some interesting legal questions in this one, like the spousal privilege with Sarah. He's still married to her, but he's not with her. And she's basically the snitch.

[Dave]

She's the star witness. Yeah.

[Dan]

And I wonder what that's like in

[Deputy Aaliyah]

your state, Aaliyah, there is spousal privilege.

[Dan]

You get the option to exercise it.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

I'm guessing, yes. Brandon and Sarah had not been together for a long time. Brandon and Julia had been together for quite a while. So I do believe that she testified in trial.

[Dave]

I'm thinking about just the penalty of life in prison, and I think about some of the plea deals that we had pushed forward to some of my sex offenders. And the plea deal started at 45 years. Plead guilty and you'll only spend 45 years. It's not surprising that people are like, that's my deal. You. I'm not signing that. I'll take my chances with a jury. So with the big punishments, I'm always like, oh, they'll take it to trial. Because the alternative is unsurvivable anyway, which is life without.

[Dan]

You know, I think another interesting aspect of this case is previously, Julia had become uncooperative with the prosecution on Brandon. But this case, you wonder if Julia said, you know, last time I wasn't cooperative, but now I'm going to be. And that's what pushed him over the edge. And Brandon slits her throat.

[Dave]

Right. Cause she wasn't prone to calling the police. Right. It's only happened once, so it is interesting. And Brandon makes the comment about, I didn't want her to call the police. So, Dan, that is fascinating. What were the last few sentences before that turned, you know, deadly physical?

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah. I know that they were just arguing about the tattoo. And you would think, like, how long has Brandon had this tattoo? If that was really an argument. Are we really arguing about this tattoo that he's probably had for much longer than he's been with Julia? So I don't even really believe that's what the argument was over in the first place.

[Dave]

Right.

[Dan]

All of a sudden, it's an issue.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Exactly.

[Dave]

He's trying to paint Julia as this controlling, jealous girlfriend who is Unreasonable about a tattoo that's affixed to his body. Again, self serving statements.

[Paul Holes]

It probably was an argument in the past, and now he's bringing that up as the reason why Julia is pulling a knife on him. Brandon is minimizing. This type of tragedy just occurs over and over again. And as I mentioned earlier, Brandon's behaviors with Julia are predictive of homicide. This is where there is a disconnect with what law enforcement can do and what the criminal justice system does with these types of offenders. You know, I've talked to several women over the years who are in abusive relationships in which the violence is rising to this level. And I tell these women, get out. You better have a go bag. Don't rely on a piece of paper. The restraining order. You do not let him know where you are going to be if you want to be able to try to maximize your ability to survive. And the complexity sometimes is one of the women had kids. And it's like, you have go bags for the kids. You get out, let him cool down. If you ever expect him to be coming back or he's starting to heat up, you get out now.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah, I even used to keep, like, diapers and, like, little onesies and stuff like that in my car to just be like, here's this for now. We'll get whatever we need to later. Like, we don't need to worry about diapers. We don't need to worry about any of this stuff. Like, we can just go now. But it is hard. It's hard for women to leave what they've known. A lot of the times they've been kind of pigeonholed into not having income. And this is the only stability that they have. So they're scared to leave. It's uncomfortable to go live in a shelter. It doesn't feel like home. It feels very uncomfortable. And you can see why women choose to stay.

[Dave]

There's some aspects of this that are eerily similar to a case that I think we've had on this podcast. But it was a mom that got stabbed to death by her son. The son had been arrested a couple of weeks prior for grabbing a steak knife out of the butcher block and threatening his mom with it. And in that case, it was determined that the suspect needed some mental health counseling and some anger management and was released. And within two weeks, we went out there and overnight, suspect had gone into his mom's bedroom and stabbed her while she slept and then rolled her up in the comforter and grabbed her car and took off down to a neighboring State and tried to kill his brother. And it's just like again where you feel like you're in a movie. You're like, no way.

[Yardley]

That one's called Matricide. That episode that we did with Detective George.

[Dave]

Yes. And it's just one of those where it's like, fuck. I mean, what is a mom supposed to do? It's her son. You know, in this case, you've got Julia who's like, has a child with Brandon and it's like, you have to move out, quit this life with Brandon. It's just. It is a lot to ask, but it has to happen to keep yourself safe. So I'm sensitive and compassionate on that side of things.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Yeah. You hear a lot of times people are like, well, why didn't they just leave? You're like, well, it's just not that easy.

[Yardley]

I'm sure these women feel like I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't. You know, the. I'm afraid he's going to kill me if I stay. I'm afraid he's going to find me and kill me if I go. But also, what does it say about, about me that I've put myself and potentially any children I have in this much danger and I can't get us out of it?

[Dave]

I think it's important. Exactly what you're describing, Yeardley, is cops on domestic violence calls are exactly the cops that you want. If you're a victim and you're the complainant on a call like this, cops are the perfect people to talk to because we know all those aspects and those dynamics to it and we understand the shame part and you know, the victim doom loop and all that. We all understand. Cause we've seen it dozens or hundreds of times.

[Yardley]

Yeah, that's really well said. You know, to your point, Aaliyah, that you said at the beginning of this case how you'd had that hour and a half conversation with Julia outside the apartment and you gave her your number, your personal cell phone number and really tried to impress upon her, I'm in your corner. And even having the feeling that perhaps Julia actually got it and how quickly it must have been for her to get sucked back into this vortex of danger and shame and abuse that Brandon had created. We were talking about empathy and it just got to be heartbreaking for you guys. I'm sorry.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

It's the unfortunate part of the job.

[Yardley]

It's the part they don't teach you about in. In academy school.

[Dave]

I bet you are correct.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

I'M trying to fix that now. Since I'm in training, I'm trying to impress upon these little minds it's not all running and gunning. I feel like it's just now recently been a topic of conversation of actually taking some time to decompress and work through your feelings from these very not normal things that are happening to you on patrol. But even when I started, you know, a little bit over a decade ago, it was kind of like, just go to the next call.

[Dave]

Well, I'm glad Brandon no longer has to pay taxes or rent and that his meals are taken care of for the rest of his life.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Me, too.

[Dave]

He shouldn't breathe the same air as Julia's kids.

[Yardley]

I guess Julia's kids went to live with family.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

I believe so, yes.

[Yardley]

I don't know how you're all right after that, but I do hope that they're doing the best they can, Right?

[Dave]

Get home from daycare and everyone goes. By the way, your mom got killed today, right?

[Yardley]

Oh, and your stepdad did it.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

It's so, so tragic.

[Yardley]

It's so sad. Well, it seems weird to say thank you for bringing us that case today, Aaliyah, but I think there's enormous value in the very human way you all are gracious enough to tell these stories. So thank you for that.

[Deputy Aaliyah]

Absolutely. Thank you.

[Dan]

Thank you, Aaliyah.

[Dave]

Nice work.

[Paul Holes]

Thanks, Aaliyah.

[Yardley]

Now for a sneak peek at today's new bonus episode.

[Dan]

He turns left and goes west and fishtails again and hits a telephone pole. And now his car is kind of like the nose of his car is facing the sidewalk, like he's perpendicular to the street and kind of wrapped a little bit around this telephone pole where he can't drive forward. Now the only way he can go is backwards. Well, right about that time, I've been calling out the pursuit. One of my partners arrives at the intersection, and I said, hey, this is going to continue. He's not stopping. You can see he's actively trying to disengage from this telephone pole. He accomplishes that in like, five or six seconds. And off we go again.

[Yardley]

To listen to today's bonus episode and access hundreds more, go to smalltowndicks.com superfam and hit that little join button. Small Town Dicks was created by detectives Dan and Dave. The podcast is produced by Jessica Halstead and me, Yardley Smith. Our senior editor is Sorenvasion, and our editor is Queen Christina Bracamontes. Our associate producers are the real Nick Smitty and Erin Gaynor Logan. Heftel is our production manager, our books are Cooked and Cats Wrangled by Ben Cornwell, and our social media maven is Monica Scott. It would make our day if you became a member of our Small Town Fam by following us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at SmallToWndix, we love hearing from you. Oh, our groovy theme song was composed by John Forrest. Also, if you'd like to support the making of this podcast, go to smalltowndicks.com superfam and hit that little join button there. For a small subscription fee, you'll find exclusive content you can't get anywhere else. The transcripts of this podcast are thanks to Speech Docs and they can be found on our website, smalltowndicks.com thank you Speechdocs for this wonderful service. Small Town Dicks is an audio 99 production. Small town fam. Thanks for listening. Nobody is better than you.

[Sam]

Sam.