Soft Target

Summary

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Episode Overview

Episode Title: Soft Target
Podcast: Small Town Dicks
Date: May 1, 2026
Hosts: Yeardley Smith, Detectives Dan & Dave, Paul Holes
Guest Detective: Detective Bree

This episode centers on a harrowing sexual abuse case from a small town, with Detective Bree returning as guest. The team explores how a 16-year-old girl, Sydney, fell prey to a 45-year-old man, Tom, already on probation for second-degree murder. The discussion highlights the psychological complexities of victimization, the dogged work of detectives, and the role of bystanders in bringing such cases to light. Gallows humor, a coping mechanism for law enforcement, appears throughout, balancing the episode’s darker themes with moments of camaraderie.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Case Origins and Initial Disclosure

• In January 2017, Detective Bree was assigned to follow up on a report that 16-year-old Sydney was engaged in sexual activity with a 45-year-old, Tom.
• The case began when Sydney’s friend, Olivia, disclosed Sydney’s relationship to Sydney’s grandmother, Linda, having been confided in and recognizing the danger.
  “For Olivia to have the courage to go, sorry, friend, but I gotta tell your grandma, that's a big, big deal.” — Dan/Dave [07:36]

2. Background on Victim and Suspect

• Sydney, living with her grandparents due to unfit parents, struggled with a challenging upbringing.
• Tom was on probation for second-degree murder, a fact he disclosed to Sydney early in their interactions; she continued communicating.
• Linda, the grandmother, investigated Tom’s background online and discovered his criminal history.
• Sydney attempted suicide after confrontation about Tom, prompting authorities to secure her phone and bedding as evidence.

3. Investigation Tactics and Evidence Collection

• Law enforcement secured and searched Sydney’s phone with her grandmother’s consent, uncovering extensive communication with Tom.
• Deputies collected the bedding from Sydney’s room, which later provided vital DNA evidence.
• Sydney described meeting Tom online and inviting him to her home in the middle of the night while the family slept.
• The evidence included the sexual act itself (with details supporting lack of ambiguity) and Tom’s distinctive password/code ("143"—I love you) to confirm communication authenticity.

4. Offender Psychology and Patterns

• The team speculates on the psychological profile of Tom and offenders like him: seeing themselves as “bad wolves,” flaunting criminal history, and seeking victims with vulnerabilities.
• Discussion highlights how some predators intentionally target children from unstable backgrounds, exploiting emotional gaps.
• “Sex offenders want to get their hands on kids. It just...it is what it is.” — Dan/Dave [38:29]

5. The Night of the Crime

• Tom drove four hours to Sydney’s house, coordinated arriving at 1am, and was snuck into a distinctly childlike bedroom.
• At 4am, Tom’s probation officer, Ashley, attempted an unannounced home visit and caught Tom in a lie about his whereabouts, prompting him to flee Sydney’s home and concoct a hospital alibi.

6. Controlled Calls and Further Investigation

• Investigators attempted controlled phone calls between Sydney and Tom, but Tom was wary, suspecting law enforcement was listening.
• Probation Officer Ashley checked hospital records, exposing Tom’s deception regarding his alibi.

7. DNA Evidence and Suspect Interview

• Forensic testing confirmed Tom’s semen mixed with a female profile on the bedding; his DNA was already in CODIS due to prior convictions.
• Investigators coordinated with the probation officer to confront and arrest Tom during a probation check-in.
• During the post-Miranda interview, Tom initially denied everything, then shifted stories, eventually admitting to sex with Sydney but minimizing his age awareness of her.
• Detective Bree and her partner demonstrated investigative agility:
  “We kind of picked this up. Ryan just takes over and he starts asking the questions. Tom gets way more comfortable...not having to look at a female and talk about...dirty things that he's done to a child.” — Bree [31:11]

8. Charges, Sentencing, and Systemic Frustrations

• Tom was arrested for violating probation; further charges included unlawful sexual activity with a minor.
• He ultimately received just two years for the offense and was placed on sex offender probation, later violating it again.
• The hosts express dissatisfaction with the light sentencing and the subsequent risk Tom continues to pose: “You think that the compounding of those two offenses would amount to a bigger sentence.” — Yeardley [43:09]
  “We don’t always get the sentences we want, unfortunately...Even the homicide, he was sentenced to 15 years. He only served nine of it. Then got out right before he offended on Sydney.” — Bree [43:41]

9. Reflections on Victimology and Law Enforcement Approach

• Discussion underscores how Sydney’s vulnerability (unstable home, seeking affection) made her a “soft target.”
• The significance of the friend’s intervention is highlighted as pivotal in breaking the cycle of abuse and potentially saving other victims: “The number of people that they saved, we can't calculate.” — Dan/Dave [45:37]
• The episode ends with gratitude for Bree’s thorough, empathetic work and a nod to the importance of teamwork and preparedness in law enforcement.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Offender Mindset:
  “He spent nine years in prison for that homicide.” — Detective Bree [14:22]
  “You can't know the things I know and then not take appropriate action with your children.” — Detective Bree [45:25]

• Gallows Humor & Coping:
  “You're totally fine with having sex with a child in her bedroom, but you don't want to offend me—the adult sitting at the table who's a sex crimes detective?” — Detective Bree [29:58]
  “Cop humor kills me.” — Yeardley [13:00]

• On Law Enforcement Agility:
  “That agility to recognize we're not going to get there with the way we're doing things, and you guys just pivot...we like to highlight those things.” — Dan/Dave [47:09]

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Important Timestamps

• Case Introduction & Sydney’s Background: [05:42]–[07:06]
• Discovery of Tom’s Criminal Past: [07:55]–[08:14]
• Sydney’s Suicide Attempt & Evidence Collection: [08:40]–[09:41]
• On Consent & Law Statutes: [09:51]
• Details on Tom’s Murder Conviction: [12:41]–[13:03]
• The Night of the Crime: [17:18]–[19:02]
• Interview & Controlled Calls with Tom: [22:23]–[29:58]
• Interview Room Tactics: [31:11]–[32:03]
• Charges, Arrest, and Policy Frustrations: [34:10]–[43:41]
• Final Reflections & Teamwork Praise: [46:46]–[48:43]

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Conclusion

"Soft Target" delivers a sobering look at the realities of protecting vulnerable youth from persistent, dangerous offenders. It shines a light on the complexity of these investigations and the dedication required from law enforcement professionals like Detective Bree. The episode demonstrates the ripple effect of a single bystander’s courage, the value of forensic science, and the bittersweet nature of justice when sentencing falls short. Through candid discussion, technical breakdowns, and moments of levity, the Small Town Dicks team humanizes both the process and impact of their work in the pursuit of justice.

Transcript

[Paul Holes]

Hey, sweetie. Your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm gonna give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again. I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check anyway. Carvana, give it a whirl. Love ya.

[Detective Bree]

So good you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up. Fees may apply.

[Yeardley Smith]

Hey, small town fam, it's Yardley. I want to remind you that if you want access to bonus episodes and regular episodes a day early and ad free and our community forum and other behind the scenes goodies, you gotta go to smalltowndicks.com superfam and then in the top right hand corner, hit that little tab that says join. And then listen to the end of today's episode for a sneak peek at today's new bonus episode. Hey, small town fam. It's Yardley. How are you guys? I hope all is wonderfully well in your worlds. You know, we talk about infuriating, often gut wrenching things on this podcast and a lot of times the only consolation I get when I listen to these stories is knowing that people like fan favorite detective Bree, who is our guest today, are in charge and advocating for the victims. For example, today's case is a sex abuse case involving a teenager. The suspect is a piece of shit and the whole scenario is going to make you mad and it's going to make you wish that every child could be protected from assholes like this. You're gonna wish for the umpteenth time that these cases were few and far between for law enforcement and not the game of whack a mole that they actually are. Just know everyone on this podcast shares your frustration. But at least detectives like Bree give me hope. If you're new to Bree, you're gonna love her. She is a dogged, thoughtful, empathetic investigator. So the teenage victim in this case could not be in better hands. Last, you're gonna get a little taste of what the detectives call gallows humor in this episode. I think of it this way, when your day to day involves trying to right the worst wrongs that people do to each other, there needs to be a release valve, some something to shed a bit of the proliferating stress that's part of the job. Just to make it possible for you to keep investigating and get justice for Your victim. So enjoy the warmth and candor of these very intimate moments. Here is Soft Target. Hi there. I'm Yeardley.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

I'm Dan. I'm Dave.

[Paul Holes]

And I'm Paul.

[Yeardley Smith]

And this is Small Town Gigs.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Dave and I are identical twins and retired detectives from small town usa.

[Paul Holes]

And I'm a veteran cold case investigator who helped catch the Golden State killer using a revolutionary DNA tool.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Between the three of us, we've investigated investigated thousands of crimes. From petty theft to sexual assault, child abuse to murder. Each case we cover is told by the detective who investigated it, offering a rare personal account of how they saw the crime.

[Paul Holes]

Names, places and certain details have been changed to protect the privacy of victims and their families.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

And although we're aware that some of our listeners may be familiar with these cases, we ask you to please join us in continuing to protect the true identities of those involved out of respect for what they've been through. Thank you.

[Yeardley Smith]

Today on Small Town Dicks, Guess what? We have the usual suspects. We have Detective Dan.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Hello there.

[Yeardley Smith]

Hello, Dan.

[Detective Bree]

Husband, wifey.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Get a room. I got one. Dave.

[Yeardley Smith]

Detective Dave. Hello, hello, hello, brother in law.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Hello, sister in law.

[Yeardley Smith]

And of course we have the one and only Paul Holes.

[Paul Holes]

The only one unrelated here.

[Yeardley Smith]

But you're so close to us. You have so been taken into the fold. There's no escaping ever now. Well, I appreciate it whether you like it or not. And Small Town fam. Oh my goodness. We are thrilled to welcome back to the podcast fan favorite detective extraordinaire, Detective Bri.

[Detective Bree]

Hey guys.

[Yeardley Smith]

Hey. It's so great. I think this is your fourth appearance on the podcast and each one is a gem and we're just. I was so delighted to see you, Bree.

[Detective Bree]

Oh, thank you. It's very nice to see you guys.

[Yeardley Smith]

Thank you. I wish we were all in the same room. I complain about that constantly. But it's how much I wish it. That's why I complain about it constantly.

[Detective Bree]

I think I should make my next demand to be that the next time we record it has to be at the same table.

[Yeardley Smith]

That's fair.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

That is fair.

[Yeardley Smith]

We're into that. We totally support that demand. We do. In the meantime, let's not waste our listeners time, shall we? Let's get on with it. So Bri, you're an old pro at this. Now please tell us how this case came to you.

[Detective Bree]

So this case was assigned to me for some follow up investigation in January of 2017. At the time I had been a detective for a couple years. I get this report that I review and Deputies had responded out to the victim's address after a complaint was made that the victim was engaged in some sort of a sexual relationship or sexual activity with a 45 year old man. And they initiated report, and then that was assigned to me.

[Yeardley Smith]

So I'm assuming that the victim is underage.

[Detective Bree]

Correct. She's only 16 years old.

[Yeardley Smith]

Okay.

[Detective Bree]

And her name is Sydney. And so I review this report and I learned that 16 year old Sydney lived with her grandparents who had custody of her. And Sidney's grandmother, Linda was approached by Sydney's friend Olivia, who told her that Sydney had confided in her that she had been having this relationship with this 45 year old man who we later identify as Tom. So Olivia is looking out for her friend and she realizes that this is not okay. This is not acceptable. And so Olivia tells Sydney's grandma Linda what Sydney's been up to. You know, and obviously this came from a genuine place. Olivia was legitimately, you know, worried about her friend.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

The number of cases I've had where best friends got the first disclosure and then either disclosed to their mom or a trusted adult and got the ball rolling on a sexual assault case happens all the time. And you get mixed reactions. Sometimes a friend like Sidney looks at Olivia and it's like, you betrayed me. That was a secret. You have other times where there's that initial bitterness, but in the end, Sydney's like, olivia is just looking out for me. And then you have others where Olivia is like the person that pulled Sidney out of a horrible situation. So you have all these dynamics between friends, but for Olivia to have the courage to go, sorry, friend, but I gotta tell your grandma, that's a big, big deal.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah. So Olivia provides Linda with Tom's Facebook account, which includes a photograph of him. And Linda then does a little bit of research and she finds Tom's date of birth. And she finds out that Tom is actually on probation for second degree murder.

[Yeardley Smith]

Oh, God. Okay. I didn't see that coming.

[Paul Holes]

Right, but it's not first, so

[Yeardley Smith]

you're fired, Paul.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Silver lining right there. Paul's like, it could have been worse.

[Detective Bree]

Well, Paul, he was charged with first, if that makes any better. He was charged with first. He was convicted of second.

[Yeardley Smith]

Yeah.

[Detective Bree]

So there's this guy that Linda's like, okay. You know, a lot just got thrown at her. Now she starts to do a little digging into Tom and she finds this out. So Linda, of course, confronts Sidney with this information and she's like, what is going on? Well, Sydney at that point, doesn't really Tell her much. She starts to spiral and she actually tries to commit suicide. And so she's then placed on this mental health hold to have, you know, an evaluation done. And once Sydney's in the hospital, Linda takes Sydney's phone and she starts going through it. And that's when she finds all of this communication between Sydney and Tom. And Linda finds out that Sydney snuck Tom into their home while the family slept. This was actually the very first time that they were planning to meet up. So I know on our last episode we talked quite extensively about consent and force.

[Yeardley Smith]

Yes, I called that episode Dog. It starts season 17. And listeners, if you haven't heard it, you need to put it at the top of your queue, my friends.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah. And so I just kind of want to reiterate here that although we're talking about consent, that Sydney consented to this, she is still a minor. And I know we talked about 16 as the age of consent, but she's 16. She's not allowed to be having sex with men over the age of 23. Tom's 45. So we have an issue. So Linda also discovers that Tom has provided Sydney with a code, which was a three digit number to him when they began talking. And I assumed that this was probably to make sure that he was actually communicating with Sydney and not maybe a parent or guardian. So while Sydney is in the hospital, deputies go out, they take the report, they take Sydney's phone, they obtain a consent to search from Linda. So she gives law enforcement consent for us to go through Sydney's phone to look at all of the data. And deputies also go in and they collect the bedding from Sydney's room. When I get the case, I go out to the residence. And at this point, I had communicated with Linda and I knew that Sydney was home and feeling better. So I go out there to talk to Linda and to conduct an interview with Sydney. So I sit down with Sydney and she tells me at that time that she met Tom on Instagram and they began communicating on the phone. So they would actually have voice calls. So they didn't chat as much as they did talk on the phone. And Sydney advised that she knew that Tom was on probation for murder. He told her, and she continued to communicate with him anyway. She did not know the details of the murder. She just knew that he had murdered someone.

[Yeardley Smith]

Does Tom say, yes, I did it or I was wrongly convicted?

[Detective Bree]

Oh, no, he says he did it.

[Yeardley Smith]

Oh, he. Tom admits he. Okay.

[Paul Holes]

An interesting phenomenon that I've seen typically in homicide investigations, you have select Individuals, they kind of portray themselves as, you know, this bad wolf that deserves respect. And certain individuals are attracted to that type of person. And I can't say anything about whether Sidney is seeing this in Tom, you know, as that, oh, he's a murderer. But let's say because of her victimology, her upbringing, it's sort of a. Almost a cool thing. Right. And we're appalled at the idea of this murderer being brought into the house. But maybe from her perspective, here's a guy that can handle business. He's a protector. And it's so opposite from what we see.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Should we just get the details out of the way on that murder case? If you've got him, he probably killed somebody.

[Detective Bree]

I don't have. What did you say?

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

I think Tom killed someone. Dan was one of our most senior detectives and followed clues very well.

[Yeardley Smith]

Cop humor kills me.

[Detective Bree]

So I was not able to find a ton of information on this murder, like the actual nuts and bolts of it. But what I did find out was that the victim of that homicide had a gunshot wound to the head. His pockets were turned inside out, and he was left at like a dump site, like, with garbage. His car was a block away from where his body was found, and his family apparently had no reason why he would have been murdered. I can only surmise that maybe it was a. A drug rip. Maybe, you know, they met up for drugs and something went sideways. That's a complete guess on my part. Tom is charged with first degree murder, premeditated murder, and robbery, and he was convicted of second degree. And again, you know, I don't have the full details of that, but that was just a little bit that I was able to kind of find through my investigation while I was conducting this sexual assault investigation.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Certainly some valuable insight into Tom and his life experience.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah, and he's 45 years old. I mean, he's, you know, sorry for the people that are in their 40s and over, but, you know, you got a little bit of life experience, hopefully.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

And he spent some time in the criminal college as well, probably.

[Detective Bree]

Sure. He spent nine years in prison for that homicide.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

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[Yeardley Smith]

Okay, so Sydney knows that Tom has been convicted of second degree murder and Tom actually admits that he did it.

[Detective Bree]

Correct.

[Yeardley Smith]

And yet it's not enough of a deterrent.

[Detective Bree]

No. Which, you know, like, let's just stop for a second and think about that.

[Yeardley Smith]

Right?

[Detective Bree]

You go to bed at night, you check the doors, you make sure everything's locked, you know, your alarm is set and you go to sleep and you hope that, you know, you have a nice quiet night. It's kind of horrifying to think about the fact that somebody inside the home is opening the door and allowing this type of individual to walk. They walked in, they walked up the stairs and into Sydney's bedroom. It just gives me the heebie jeebies, you know?

[Yeardley Smith]

Yeah, you would definitely be unnerved by that if you are Linda, Sydney's grandmother.

[Detective Bree]

Mm. Yeah. And you know, Sydney had a bit of a rough childhood and a rough start to life. You know, while I sat and talked with her, she told me that she lives with her grandparents because her parents are not, these are her words, they're not fit to be parents. You know, she didn't go into the details of that, but you know, she was emotional when she was talking about that kind of part of her life and the fact that she lived with her grandparents. She said her grandparents house was stable and she felt safe there. It was her and her younger sister. But they had a rough start, unfortunately. So Sydney tells Tom that she's 16 years old. And he initially tells her he's. But she finds out later that he's actually 45. Tom left his house at 9pm he arrives at Sydney's house at 1am, so he lives about four hours away. So Sydney tells me that they planned it so that he would arrive in the middle of the night so that no one would know that he was there and that so she could sneak him into her house. So she walks him in, like I said, through the front door. She leads him upstairs to the bedroom. And I actually looked in her room and it looked like a child's bedroom. Like it had pink paint on the walls. Remember those? Those, like little nets that you could hang in between the walls, like in the corners of the room. And you could put all your stuffed animals, like, kind of up over your bed.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Dave's nodding.

[Yeardley Smith]

Yes, I get it. It's a little decor. You can hang all your accoutrements.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah, it's all her little stuffed animals and her little, you know, pink bedspread and her pink walls. And it was clearly a childlike room.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, she's in the butterflies and unicorns stage. Right.

[Detective Bree]

Right.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Not to mention, I mean, let's just talk about how bold that is, knowing that you're going to a teenage girl's house, you're going to be snuck in, secreted upstairs, and whatever's happening is while there's adults down the hall or, you know, downstairs. How horrifying is that? Like, just the description of him walking upstairs with this girl and then entering a room that is clearly a girly girl, like, teenager room. And this guy still is not having the maybe I should leave or I shouldn't be here. Nope. Because we know what the goal is.

[Paul Holes]

Well, and it speaks volumes to Tom's psychology. Tom feels he can handle himself in this situation if things go sideways. Tom also is focused in on the physical interaction he's about to have with Sidney.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Yep. Oh, it's gross.

[Detective Bree]

It's scary. So once they're in Sydney's room, Sydney says that they have this consensual sex on her bed and that Tom ejaculates on the sheets, which is important, you know, for me to know as a detective, because now I know that I need to send the sheets to the lab for testing. So that was already collected, which was great. So Sydney provides the date that this occurred. And, you know, as we're talking, I ask her to, you know, kind of describe Tom. And one of the things that I thought was, I mean, you know, it's always a little funny. Maybe this is too raunchy. But, you know, she says that his penis is really small and hard to see. And, you know, you just get a little bit of like, kind of like, you know, you just kind of smirk a little bit like, sorry, that's awful.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

It's like Harvey Weinstein. When the victims started talking about Harvey's lack of prowess, it's like, let the victims have that little victory there.

[Yeardley Smith]

That's true.

[Paul Holes]

Joseph d', Angelo, Golden State Killer.

[Yeardley Smith]

That's right.

[Paul Holes]

Jane Carson, victim number five, stood up in court and held up her fingers indicating how big and just kind of danced in front of him. She loved to revel in the fact that she could basically denigrate him publicly like that.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Who can blame him?

[Yeardley Smith]

Yeah. So Sidney says Tom is not well endowed.

[Detective Bree]

She says he's not. And she also tells me that they have this code, and it's 143, which stands for I love you. And that was how they knew that they were speaking to each other, which I thought was probably the case, but she confirms it. So 143, I love you. And then they know they can continue talking.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

So Tom and Sidney have this code, 143, which means I love you. When Tom shows up at Sidney's house at one in the morning, is that the first time they've actually met?

[Detective Bree]

Yes.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

So they've been in contact with each other for, I'm guessing, at least a month or so.

[Yeardley Smith]

Right.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

The I love you thing, that just kind of.

[Yeardley Smith]

It's fast.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

It's really fast.

[Yeardley Smith]

Yeah. Mm.

[Detective Bree]

So Sydney is actually able to provide all of Tom's information. She knows his first and last name, she tells me his birthday, and then she positively identifies him in a photograph for me. So at 4am, when Tom is still at Sydney's house, Tom receives a phone call from his probation officer who was at his house conducting an unannounced Visit.

[Yeardley Smith]

Wow. At 4am yeah.

[Detective Bree]

She wanted to know where he was. So Tom makes up this story about being in the hospital and he immediately leaves Sydney's house, like, books it. But I wouldn't know that unless Sydney told me. So it was great. She's like, yeah. He got this phone call 4:00' clock in the morning from his probation officer, and he told me, I'm gonna lie and say I was at the hospital and I gotta go. So he leaves. So as I'm investigating this, we try to do a controlled phone call and

[Yeardley Smith]

Bree, that's where Sydney calls Tom. And you guys are listening in.

[Detective Bree]

Correct? He wasn't down for that. He said he wouldn't talk with her until he knew that the phone line wasn't being bugged. So she tells him that she thinks that she's pregnant. And you know, he initially says he's not discussing anything on the phone, but he does tell her that he'll get her and, you know, not to panic, so he's going to take care of things. So I contact his probation officer, Ashley to discuss this case with her. So I also, at the same time, I send the bed sheets off to the lab for testing and I got Sydney's buccal swab to send as well. So I go back out to Sydney's house, we try another controlled phone call, but that's not working. Tom's not willing to talk on the phone. He's like super hinked up. He's like, this could be bugged. We're not having this conversation on the phone. So we decide to kind of scratch that. So I finally talk with probation officer Ashley and she tells me that this curfew check was conducted on Tom and he wasn't there and they didn't make contact with him until 9:30 in the morning that day. So he tells them, yeah, I've been in the hospital since 2:30.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

I wish there was a way to check that.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah,

[Detective Bree]

right. So she does. Obviously, Ashley contacts the hospital and she learns that Tom has checked in at 8:40am and he was discharged at 10:10. And so on the phone they made contact with him at 9:30 in the morning. He says he's been in the hospital.

[Yeardley Smith]

Ashley ultimately makes contact with Tom at 9:40, but only on the telephone.

[Detective Bree]

Correct. And he says he's in the hospital, been in the hospital since 2:30. Because she's like, hey, I was here to check on you. Where were you?

[Yeardley Smith]

And what did Tom tell Ashley he was in the hospital for?

[Detective Bree]

It was asthma. He had an asthma attack. So when I tell her what I know now, of course she goes to the hospital and she starts getting some records and she finds out that he doesn't check himself in until 8:40. Well, remember, he's a four hour drive. So at 4:00am, Tom starts driving very quickly back to his town, four hours away, and manages to get himself checked in. Like just a little after four hours. Right. So exactly what he said he was gonna do. So she's got that information. Probation officer Ashley also tells me that she's currently in the process of Violating Tom's probation for threatening his ex wife and daughter. I didn't get the details on that, but obviously this guy isn't playing by the rules like he's supposed to.

[Yeardley Smith]

So Tom is married?

[Detective Bree]

Well, he was. This is his ex wife, but he was having some sort of issues with his ex wife and daughter and threatening them in some way. So meanwhile, I get information back from the lab that sperm was identified on the bedsheets and that it was mixed with a female profile. So the male DNA was then entered into codis. And then I get the CODIS hit on Tom because he's already in CODIS because he has criminal history. So at this point, this gives me my probable cause for an arrest because I have his semen on this child's bedsheets. So we wanted an opportunity to interview him in the best way that we could. So we devised a plan with the probation officer to have Tom come to the probation officer's office for a check in, and then I would be there to conduct this interview with him. We also kind of wanted a neutral place because he did have a violent history. So we wanted to make sure that it was going to be on our playing field, not on his. So Lieutenant Ryan, formerly Detective Ryan, he and I were flown down to this city four hours away. We actually got to fly in our sheriff's office helicopter. Our pilots actually flew us down, which was pretty cool. When I say I'm very lucky to work for an agency that has resources like that. It was pretty cool. We just jumped in the helicopter, and

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

I think it's bullshit. We didn't have anything cool like that. Yeah. You don't get the helicopter ride for the telephonic harassment or the trespass 3. You get the helicopter ride for guys like Tom.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty great.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Dave's making fun of my caseload again.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah. And the pilot was just like, you know, I'm just gonna hang out here at the hangar until you guys come back, and I'll fly you back. I'm like, man, I need that gig. Right?

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Right. Can you just land us on Tom's roof?

[Detective Bree]

Yeah, I'll rappel down. That'd be great. So Lieutenant Ryan and I go down, we get all set up in the probation officer's office, and Tom shows up to check in with this probation officer. And Lieutenant Ryan and I are sitting there waiting to say hello. So we conduct a post Miranda interview with him. And initially, like I've said in other conversations that we've had, Tom starts denying everything. And at this Point, like, I already know because I've got your semen on Sydney's bed sheets. So, you know, we're kind of past the point of, like, did you or did you not do this? Right. We know that you did. So, interestingly so this was my case, so I'm asking the questions, and I noticed that Tom was starting to get, like, very uncomfortable answering me. And so I would ask the question, and then Tom would look at Ryan and he would answer, and he kept apologizing to me, and he kept saying, you know, I'm sorry. I don't want to offend you.

[Yeardley Smith]

You know, you little hothouse flower, you. Bree, you're a little hot house flower, which means you might wilt. Right. The strong language might just be the undoing of you. And, oh, my God, that'll be the end of everything that we know about Bri.

[Detective Bree]

I know. Yeah. I was just like, you're totally fine with having sex with a child in her bedroom, but you don't want to offend me. The adult sitting at the table who's

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

a sex crimes detective and has heard every deviant thing you've ever imagined.

[Detective Bree]

Right? Right. But don't offend me. But Ryan and I kind of quickly recognized this, which was, like, one of the best things about having a partner who knows your case and knows the details. And Ryan was a phenomenal detective to work with. So we kind of picked this up. And so Ryan just takes over and he starts asking the questions. And obviously, Tom gets way more comfortable with this, where he's not having to look at a female and talk about, you know, dirty things that he's done to a child. So we kind of transition, and it worked out splendidly. And Tom admits to having sex with this child in her room. So he initially tells us he hasn't been to my city since the early 2000s, and he doesn't know anyone in my city. But then he gives a story about how he'd been to the hospital recently for an asthma attack. And then he says, well, I did know a girl named Sydney. We met online, but she was 18 years old, and she came to my house. And, you know, he was just such a kind soul, and he was helping her through some tough times that she was having. And he says, you know, he never left his house. Cause, you know, he's on curfew. And, you know, like I said, he initially said, no, I didn't have sex with her at all. So then Tom finally says he didn't find out that Sydney was 17 years old until after they had sex. So he thought she was 18. He didn't find out she was only 17, which she wasn't 17. She was 16. So he keeps trying to kind of minimize this whole thing. So Tom actually volunteered his DNA, which, anytime we have a CODIS hit, that's enough for probable cause, but we always like to do a direct comparison. So we'll take his DNA and we send it to the lab to compare it, just as, like, a double precaution just to make sure that we've got the right person.

[Yeardley Smith]

Do you do that just because you could never have too much evidence?

[Paul Holes]

There's a couple of reasons. One is, like, what Bree is saying is that first, you ought to make sure that there wasn't a sample switch when the lab processed his sample that was collected because he's arrested for homicide. The other thing is that that sample that is sent to CODIS as a result of the conviction is considered an administrative sample. You generally don't see. See, well, documentation, like we see with evidence, chain of custody, and all the markings. And so when you get into a situation with Tom, you get a direct sample from him that is now considered an evidentiary sample. You treat it as evidence from that very moment it's lawfully collected. Usually it's because a warrant has been issued, an arrest warrant has been issued, and you've put a search aspect in it to collect his DNA sample. So you have that aspect, and then it verifies that, yes, the CODIS hit to the administrative sample. Well, it was right. Tom's profile that's up in CODIS is the same profile you're getting from the sample that you personally have witnessed and has all the evidentiary protections associated with that.

[Yeardley Smith]

That's pretty amazing. Yeah.

[Detective Bree]

And we'll get that DNA sample a number of ways. We'll either ask them and they provide it voluntarily, or we write a search warrant for it. Or if they're already arrested and they're going through the court procedures, the state attorney's office can file a motion for us to take it, and then we'll get it that way. I'll go to court, and the judge will say, yes, I'm granting this motion, and you have to provide your DNA sample. And then at that time, I would take it, and then I would send it to the lab, but we get it one way or another. So in this case, Tom did volunteer to provide his sample. So at that time, Tom was taken into custody for violating his probation. And then I later wrote my warrant for the charges, which, in our State is called unlawful sexual activity with a minor.

[Yeardley Smith]

Can I ask you a question, Bree? Is Tom in violation of his probation because he left his home? Because he's not actually a registered sex offender. He's on probation for second degree murder, but it doesn't have anything to do with the crime against Sidney. Isn't that so. So he's in violation of his curfew and he's not supposed to leave his property, correct?

[Detective Bree]

Correct. Right. That's all based off of the murder charge, his curfew, and all of his restrictions.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

I love the compliance check, though.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah, the 4:00am where you're just like,

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

my PO is in bed, just like every other normal person on the planet. And Ashley's like, uh, I work all night and I sleep during the day. Tom, why weren't you home?

[Yeardley Smith]

So when you arrest Tom, it's for a probation violation, is it not? Also against the crime he's committed against Sydney.

[Detective Bree]

So at that time, I had to write my warrant. So in order to take him into custody right away, Ashley was able to charge him with the violation of probation just to get him into custody.

[Yeardley Smith]

I see. Okay.

[Detective Bree]

Probation officers also have a lot more kind of leeway with offenders as well. Like they can do warrantless searches of their house, you know, depending on what their terms are. But Ashley was able at that time, with everything that she had, to just go ahead and violate Tom. So that puts him into custody, and then I write my warrant, and then that all gets added on.

[Paul Holes]

You know, I'm trying to rectify Tom's decision making. You know, he finds Sidney online and he's on probation, four hours away. He drives four hours to meet up with Sidney, goes inside Sidney's house where there's adults asleep. Seems like Tom could have made a better decision and try to get Sidney to come down towards him. Why is Tom driving that? You know, is that just. This is the one victim I found, and she's telling Tom, Sidney's telling Tom that she can't get out of town and so he has to go see her. Does he think that the distance he's putting between himself and his probation officer is going to serve him well while Tom is committing this crime? You know, I'm not entirely sure what Tom's thought process is here, because usually I'm trying to assess offenders actions under the auspices of self preservation. And Tom's decision seems opposite of what I would expect Tom to do, especially somebody who's been through the prison system and has already been convicted, you know, so it's an interesting Aspect to Tom that I'm not sure how to resolve in my own mind.

[Yeardley Smith]

I agree. But it could also just be that Sydney, who's only 16, doesn't have access to her own car, so Tom has to be the one to travel.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

It's crazy risky too, because Tom knows he's in CODIS also. Yeah. I go back to life experience with this case load. The number one thing for sex offenders is to get their hands on a victim. And, you know, I think that Tom is in this. Oh, my God. He's probably excited for four hours driving there and four hours back, he's in terror because Ashley's knocking on his door. I would have been great to be a fly and hear the internal monologue in Tom's car as he's driving back home. Oh, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? I already told him I went to the hospital. They're going to be able to check that. Did you sit in the parking lot for four hours waiting to go admit yourself? Like, again, it's like we've seen in other cases where a criminal has a plan and then it gets blown up. And in this case, it's Ashley blowing up Tom's plan. And now Tom is playing catch up and scrambling to try to explain why he didn't answer his door. Like, you have to do all these things and Tom can only control what tomorrow can control. He can't control all these other factors. And in the end, sex offenders want to get their hands on kids. It just. It is what it is.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah. And he probably wasn't expecting a knock on the door at 4 o' clock in the morning. But, you know, we talked on the last episode about kind of this serendipitous type of, you know, things that happen. And it's like this is the first time that they met up. You know, he drives away. This happens to be the time that Ashley does this check at 4 o' clock in the morning. And sometimes I just think things just happen the way that they're supposed to. You know, like everything lines up and, you know, this would never have been, you know, disclosed to us if we didn't have a friend who was really concerned.

[Yeardley Smith]

You mean Olivia, who we met at the beginning of this episode?

[Detective Bree]

Yeah. You know, I'm not sure that on her own, Sidney would have come forward as quickly as this case kind of, you know, forced her to. But yeah, I mean, and some of these guys just think that they're smarter. You know, they think that they're better and they're smarter and that they can outwit everyone else. Or they think that they've groomed the victim so well that the victim's not going to tell on them.

[Yeardley Smith]

Bree, once you get involved, does Sydney understand why her relationship with Tom is such a problem?

[Detective Bree]

Yeah. When I went to talk to Sydney after she had been released from the hospital, she was very cooperative. She knew that this was, you know, not great decision. And I'm not victim blaming her at all. Right. This is not her fault. But you know, she recognized the severity of the situation. And I think even though she wasn't the one to come forward initially, she realized that this was something that needed to be investigated. That Tom was in the wrong and that he needed to go to jail. I mean, that's just the bottom line. And you know, I think she was remorseful at least for allowing this man into her grandparents home. And she was just. She had a lot of demons. She was battling a lot of. A lot of things on her own.

[Yeardley Smith]

Yeah. And these predators, all they do is hunt for vulnerable victims like Sidney. So it seems really unlikely that she was Tom's only target.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah, and I'm sure they probably have multiple conversations going at one time. You know, they're just casting a wide net, trying to figure out who they can catch and then that's it, you know, and then it's the grooming and the manipulation and on a child who's had a rough start in life, who maybe hasn't gotten the male attention that she's desired from her own father, who she said is unfit to be a parent. You know, and here's this older guy who's gonna come in and take care of her. And it's all the typical grooming and manipulation that we typically see.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

I was going to say she fits the victimology side of that with, you know, marginalized, rough upbringing, lack of stable biological parents in the family. All these things that Tom can use to wedge his way in and manipulate. It's all grooming. Bree's exactly right. And Tom had four hours of a drive to reconcile what he was doing at Sidney's house. He could have turned around at any moment.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah, think about that four hour drive back though. His pants are probably on fire.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Can you imagine? Ashley? Yeah, I'm at your front door. I mean, the panic attack that that must induce is. Oh shit. What the fuck is my PO doing at my house at O Dark 30?

[Detective Bree]

Right.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Ashley made him a project. I love it.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah. And then you gotta think like Tom came up with the whole hospital Thing. I mean, I don't know that I

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

would have on the fly.

[Detective Bree]

On the fly like that. Yeah. So he ends up getting two years for this offense, and he's put on sex offender probation. So Tom violates his probation in 2023 for failing to register as a sex offender, and he was arrested again, and he was just released again at the end of 2024. So we'll see.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

So the sanction that Ashley gives Tom isn't. He's violated his parole and he's gonna go back to prison and serve out the remaining time. He just gets like a jail sanction, I'm guessing.

[Detective Bree]

You know, I'm not really sure exactly how that works. Cause, I mean, he only got two years and then he was right back out. So I imagine that that violation of probation didn't carry a whole lot of weight, unfortunately.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah.

[Detective Bree]

You know, because what? He wasn't at home.

[Yeardley Smith]

Yeah. But at first it's that Ashley thinks Tom wasn't at home, and that's the violation. But then quite quickly, it comes to light that Tom was not at home because he was having sex with a minor four hours away. Like you think that the compounding of those two offenses would amount to a bigger sentence.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

That makes you a reasonable person. Yeardley.

[Yeardley Smith]

Yeah.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

The fact that you're violating your probation or your parole by committing a felony,

[Yeardley Smith]

that seems like a big deal.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Yeah, I gotcha. Yep.

[Yeardley Smith]

Yeah.

[Detective Bree]

We don't always get the sentences we want, unfortunately. You know, I mean, even. Even the homicide, you know, when I looked at that, it took place in the early 2000s, and Tom was in his 30s at the time. He was sentenced to 15 years. He only served nine of it. And then he got out right before he offended on Sydney. You know, he got out and then a couple months later, he's offending on Sidney. You know, different crimes. But still, you're in that world of doing illegal things. Right? Like, you don't have regard for the law.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Yeah. With steep penalties, the high risk behavior after serving a prison sentence and then going to hook up with teenage girls is. I mean, how do you explain that other than, like Paul says, this is a compulsion. That the only thing Tom cared about was his goal, which is contact with this minor Sydney. And even with patrol officers. You try to explain this to patrol officers and like, people don't think that way. And you're like, oh, yeah, they do. There are evil out there who only care about getting their hands on kids. I promise you, I wouldn't have a job if there wasn't. It's hard to convince people of that, but truly, it is prolific. They're widespread. They're everywhere.

[Detective Bree]

It's scary. Like, these are the people next door. These are the people that you don't expect to have to worry about leaving your children with. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've run a criminal history on one of these guys, and they have nothing. They have no criminal history, and they've done awful, terrible things to children. And, you know, my husband thinks that I'm crazy and calls me a helicopter mom. I think lovingly, but, you know, yeah, I'm a helicopter mom. You can't know the things that I know and then not take appropriate action with your children.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Yep. What I love about these cases is when you have the person who finally says, enough. Sidney and Olivia, the number of people that they saved, we can't calculate. But do we think that Tom would have stopped at Sydney if that relationship imploded and the police never found out, but they, quote, break up or they don't speak anymore. We all know Tom would have done this with the next one. That's the thing, is, we got to have a timeout. Somebody has to go to the penalty box. And Sydney got Tom in the penalty box. I love it.

[Yeardley Smith]

Yeah. I really hope Tom doesn't cross your desk again, Bree.

[Detective Bree]

Me, too.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

He's gonna stay out of your county,

[Detective Bree]

right? Right. Yeah. He doesn't even live in my county, and he became my problem.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Right.

[Paul Holes]

Jerk.

[Yeardley Smith]

Thank you so much for bringing that to us today. Again, such good work. I always feel like if something horrific ever happened to me like that, I just want one of you guys to. Well, three of you are retired. But anyway, Bree, I'll do it in your county. I just want somebody to look after me like you guys look after your victims.

[Detective Bree]

Thanks.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Good work. I just want to, like, kind of highlight the. The whole aspect of you and Brian. Lieutenant Brian in the interview room, and that agility to recognize we're not going to get there with the way we're doing things, and you guys just pivot. I think it's amazing. And it's just there are a lot of people in law enforcement that don't have that ability, and there are a lot of people in law enforcement that do, and we like to highlight those things.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah.

[Yeardley Smith]

It's cool.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah. And I will say, too. I mean, I've been on interviews with other detectives, and I can remember one in particular where the guy was so close, he started crying, and I was like, all right. Like, we're right there. And I just needed the detective next to me to, like, step in and just close a deal, right? And I looked at him like, do you have anything that you would like to say? And he's like, no, I'm good. You know, and I'm just like, oh, gosh. Okay. So really, it speaks to Ryan. I mean, he was a phenomenal partner. He was a great detective. He's a great supervisor now. But, you know, he came to that prepared. He didn't have to read my case. He didn't have to ask me details. He could have done a half assed job at getting up to speed on my case, but he didn't. You know, he read my report. He asked me lots of questions, you know, while we were traveling down there. And, you know, just for this reason. Exactly. You know, if we need to pivot for whatever reason, you know my case as well as I do, and you can pick up and you can take over, which is phenomenal. I mean, truly, like, so invested in the victims, really, because that's what this is about. And knowing the cases and being prepared to do whatever we have to do to get the kind of closure and resolution that these cases deserve. So it's really a testament to Ryan and his ability to be an amazing partner.

[Paul Holes]

Another awesome job, Bri.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Yeah, agreed. Your agency is an example of how I hope things work.

[Detective Bree]

Yeah, we have a good one. Thanks, guys.

[Yeardley Smith]

Now for a sneak peek at today's new bonus episode.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

To get someone to jail, we need to have what we used to call a doctor's note. We need an okay for jail on a script pad that a doctor has. And so in extreme cases where someone's out of their mind high, or we have worries about their heart rate or blood pressure or, you know, they're sweating to the nth degree, we would take them to the hospital, to the ER to say, this guy's okay for incarceration.

[Yeardley Smith]

To listen to today's bonus episode and access hundreds more, go to smalltowndicks.com superfam and hit that little join button. Small Town Dicks was created by detectives Dan and Dave. The podcast is produced by Jessica Halstead and me, Yeardley Smith. Our senior editor is Soren Bajan, and our editor is Christina Bracamontes. Our associate producers are the real Nick Smitty and Erin Gaynor. Logan Heftel is our production manager. Our books are Cooked and Cats Wrangled by Ben Cornwell. And our social media maven is Monica Scott. It would make our day if you became a member of our Small Town Fam by following us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. At SmallToWNDicks, we love hearing from you. Oh, our groovy theme song was composed by John Forrest. Also, if you'd like to support the making of this podcast, go to smalltowndicks.com superfam and hit that little join button there. For a small subscription fee, you'll find exclusive content you can't get anywhere else. The transcripts of this podcast are thanks to Speech Docs and they can be found on our website, smalltowndicks.com thank you Speechdocs for this wonderful service. Small Town Dicks is an audio 99 production. Small town fam. Thanks for listening. Nobody is better than you.

[Detective Dan or Detective Dave]

Sam.