#537 - The Ballad Of Bambi - Nixonville, South Carolina

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder #537 - The Ballad Of Bambi - Nixonville, South Carolina

Introduction In episode #537 of "Small Town Murder," hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman delve into the mysterious and tragic double homicide that shook the quiet community of Nixonville, South Carolina. Blending meticulous research with their signature comedic flair, the hosts unravel a complex case filled with family turmoil, questionable motives, and surprising courtroom twists.

Background Nixonville, situated in Horry County near Myrtle Beach, is a small, predominantly white community with a population that has surged over the decades due to its appeal as a retirement and second-home destination. The town, originally isolated by rivers and swamps, is now a blend of serene residential areas and bustling tourist attractions.

“It's about 20 minutes to Myrtle Beach... the population has increased more than fourfold since 1970.” ([08:00])

The Family Dynamics At the heart of the case is Gloria Diane Mills Parker, known as Diane, born in 1950 in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Diane married young at 20 to David Livingston, with whom she had a daughter named Bambi Bennett in 1971. After their divorce in the late '70s or early '80s, Diane remarried Charlie Parker Sr., a devout member of the Tilly Swamp Baptist Church and owner of Mirror Tech, a local business.

“They put up this big bronze statue here. It cost the town $16,200 to do this.” ([08:37])

The Murders On April 12, 2005, Diane Parker and Charlie Parker Sr. were brutally murdered in their home. The killings were initially attributed to Steven Stanko, a known serial killer, but discrepancies in his whereabouts during the time of the murders led authorities to reopen the investigation.

Investigation and Initial Suspects Suspicions quickly turned towards Diane’s daughter, Bambi Bennett, and her boyfriend, Richard Gagnon. Bambi had inherited substantial property and a trust fund from her deceased father, David Livingston, leading to potential motives rooted in inheritance disputes.

“Bambi and Richard have been arrested for murder.” ([69:27])

Key evidence against them included:

• Blood on Richard Gagnon’s Shoe: Four blood droplets found at the crime scene matched Gagnon but did not match any of the victims or other known individuals, raising questions about an unidentified third party.

  “The blood on the shoe doesn’t match anyone connected to the family.” ([72:05])

• Gunshot Residue on Charlie Parker Jr.’s Hands: Suggesting possible involvement in the shootings.

  “Gunshot residue was found on Charlie Parker Jr.’s hands.” ([68:28])

The Trial During the trial, the prosecution relied heavily on circumstantial evidence and testimonies from jailhouse informants:

• Jailhouse Informant Testimony: A cellmate, Robert Lee Mullins, claimed Gagnon confessed to the murders, asserting he acted out of anger over property and custody disputes.

  “He went into a rage and I did it.” ([57:09])

• Defense’s Position: The defense highlighted the lack of concrete evidence linking Bambi directly to the murders and questioned the reliability of jailhouse testimonies.

  “He didn't kill anybody.” ([90:37])

Despite these defenses, the jury convicted both Bambi Bennett and Richard Gagnon of first-degree murder and burglary based on the presented evidence.

Appeals and Later Developments Post-conviction, significant developments emerged:

• DNA Match: In 2009, DNA from the crime scene matched Bruce Antoine Hill, a 24-year-old serving time in Tennessee for unrelated offenses. This revelation suggested heretofore unidentified evidence pointing towards another individual.

  “Bruce Hill’s DNA matched the blood found at the scene.” ([75:31])

• New Testimonies: In 2013, a former inmate and preacher, Robert Troy Taylor, testified that Mullins had fabricated his testimony against Gagnon, indicating potential miscarriage of justice.

  “Mullins lied about what Richard did.” ([126:14])

• Court’s Response: Despite compelling new evidence, the appeals court denied a new trial for Richard Gagnon, citing procedural defenses and the timing of evidence discovery.

  “The appellate court ruled that the testimony was material and warranted a new trial.” ([137:06])

• Charges Dropped: In 2015, prosecutors dismissed charges against Gagnon without prejudice, allowing for potential re-filing should new evidence surface. However, charges against Bambi remained unresolved.

  “Charges against Richard Gagnon have been dismissed, but they can be refiled if needed.” ([137:45])

Current Status and Aftermath By 2021, Richard Gagnon had been released and started a family, while Bambi Bennett continues to grapple with her tarnished reputation and the loss of her parents. The case remains a poignant example of the complexities within criminal investigations and the profound impact of familial relationships on legal outcomes.

“She was portrayed as a monster to the public, which is heartbreaking.” ([95:47])

Conclusion "The Ballad of Bambi" in Nixonville encapsulates a web of family conflicts, legal challenges, and the relentless pursuit of truth amid flawed evidence and courtroom dynamics. Through their engaging narrative, James and Jimmie shed light on the intricate layers of this small-town tragedy, leaving listeners pondering the true nature of justice and the shadows that linger in tight-knit communities.

Notable Quotes:

• “Do it anyway.” ([10:31]) – Highlighting residents' responses to town challenges.
• “Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we?” ([05:35]) – Transition into the narrative.
• “Nothing funny about an actual murder.” ([05:34]) – Hosts emphasizing the seriousness of the topic.

End of Summary

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Note: This summary is based solely on the provided transcript and aims to capture the essence of the discussed episode. For the most accurate and comprehensive understanding, listening to the full podcast episode is recommended.

Transcript

[James Petrigallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of my favorite things in the world. Audible.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, audible.com or the app.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, I give that app a workout. Let me tell you something. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. You can listen to anything. There's so many genres on there. There's more to imagine when you listen. And let me tell you something that makes my imagination soar in a terrible way. I've been listening to Secrets in the Cellar.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petrigallo]

Which is by John Glatt, and it's about Joseph Fritzl and locking his daughter in the basement for decades. And as you want to talk about imagination of who's the devil in a human skin? That's the guy. So check that out. Or a whole bunch of them. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. Audible's the best. Let's be honest here. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com smalltownmurder or text small town murder to 500. 500. That's audible.com small town murder. Or text small town murder to 500. Five hundred.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petrigallo]

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Shutterfly. Reconnecting with the people in your life is so important, and sending a holiday card is a meaningful way to do that. But it could be hard to know where to start. Who knows? Shutterfly makes it easy to share custom cards that are perfectly you. I already know what I'm doing here. Yeah, yeah. Why not? We'll put the puppies on the cards this year. That's what we're doing with Shutterfly. Sen. Everybody likes pictures of the dogs.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure do.

[James Petrigallo]

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[Jimmy Wisman]

And now back to the show.

[James Petrigallo]

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[Jimmy Wisman]

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[James Petrigallo]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[James Petrigallo]

Detail this week in Nixonville, South Carolina, when a brutal double killing happens inside of a nice home to nice people. Everyone thinks it's a local serial killer, but then they eventually find the real killers. At least that's what they think. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm Jimmy Wisman.

[James Petrigallo]

Thank you so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy, insane downhill adventure that we know as Small Town Murder. We have a really wild story for you today. Don't turn it off if you think the story's done because there is a twist coming. That is a punch right in the face. It's wild stuff today. We'll get into that. First of all, though, head over to shut up and give me murder.com. get your tickets for the virtual live show. Can't wait. October 30th. Be there. We will be there. You can be. You don't have to be there. You can be there where you are now, wherever you are, at home, on the roof, in your front yard, wherever you want to watch it, anywhere with an Internet connection, you can get this show just like a regular live show, except in your living room. And we will be wearing costumes because it's Halloween. It's available for two weeks after it too, so you can purchase it later. You can purchase it, you know, early and then watch it 20 times. You do whatever you want with it. You got it for two weeks. Shut up and give me murder.com also patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, a mere cup of coffee.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's it.

[James Petrigallo]

A cup of coffee will get you hundreds of back bonus episodes and new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder. And you, I'm telling you that this week, what you're gonna get for crime and sports, we're gonna talk about that Vince McMahon documentary.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And especially some especially crazy things that happened in that documentary. Specific things that are just blowing my mind still. I can't get them out of my head. Then for Small Town murder, we are gonna do part two of Ted Bundy's psychological assessment from 1976. Because one part wasn't enough. He still got a lot of pictures to go through. And those pictures were the most interesting thing in the world. Hearing his picture interpretations, crazy stuff. Patreon.com Crime and Sports is where you get all of that now. Disclaimer time. It's a comedy show, everybody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It is.

[James Petrigallo]

We are comedians. Murder is going to happen. It's right there in the title. So if we didn't give you murder, you'd be really upset listening to the show. What am I listening to? Yeah, but the thing is, you say, how do you make murder and comedy go together real easily? You just don't be a dick about it, and it comes out real easy, that's all. There's nothing funny about an actual murder. But the stuff around it is so crazy that it's kind of funny sometimes. You know when a murderer says, I think I can get away with this if I just do a, B and C? No, no, you're dumb. You're too dumb to get away with it. So that's what I'm talking about right there. What we don't do, what we go out of our way not to do. We don't make fun of the victims or the victim's family.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why, James?

[James Petrigallo]

Because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But.

[James Petrigallo]

But we're not scumbags. See how that works? Super simple. You just. Just don't be a dick. And it's super easy. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs. What do you say here? And let's all shout, Shut up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Give me murder.

[James Petrigallo]

Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Let's go.

[James Petrigallo]

We are going to South Carolina.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

We're going to Nixonville, South Carolina.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Where is that?

[James Petrigallo]

It's in like, kind of eastern South Carolina. Down by Myrtle beach there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

It is not exactly a town in itself. It's a. It's an area. It's one of those things. It's an area. It's Nixonville. But the stats for it are from other places. It's very complicated. So it is about 20 minutes to Myrtle Beach. So it's right there. Two hours and 15 minutes to Somerville, which was our last South Carolina episode, which was Murder Moves in which that was crazy. That was when the two women met in rehab.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And then the one moved in and it turned into a mess here. Now it's in Horry County. Ro hhy. Like Robert Horry, the famous NBA six man. Yeah. I'm sorry. Rohhy Horry. I went dyslexic on everybody for a minute there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sorry about that.

[James Petrigallo]

Wow. Area code is 843. The motto here, much like the Raiders. Committed to excellence is there. Yes, they are. Hopefully this town turns out better than the Raiders have for the last, you know, 40 years or so. So.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, I've been good.

[James Petrigallo]

It hasn't been great. Little bit of history of this town here. A little. Little bit. It's was originally. It's very isolated. There's rivers and swamps all around it and then the ocean on the, you know, far east side of it. So it's essentially surrounded by water. So back in the day when there wasn't bridges and things like that, basically these people had to survive in here on their own. You know what I mean? It was it so a no outside world help. And they actually used to call the county the Independent Republic of Ori. Like the people used to call it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That because like an island.

[James Petrigallo]

No, it's in the middle of some swampland, but there's so much shit around it. Swamps and rivers and water, basically. So the county is named after the Revolutionary war hero Peter Horry, who was born here in 1743. And they put a big bronze statue up of him in 2012 because everybody could have put a statue up of anybody. No one knows what that guy looks like. Yeah. You know what Peter Horry looks like from 1743?

[Jimmy Wisman]

No. Imagine a little bit off of Robert Horry.

[James Petrigallo]

That's it. Robert Horry with a. With a. With a powdered wig on. That's what I picture at this point. So shooting threes. Shooting clutch threes in a. In a fucking. In a conference championship game. So they put up this big thing, this big bronze statue here. It's got a stone base. It cost the town $16,200 to do this, which, why not, I assume is probably pricey for a small town.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I guess everything else there was already done.

[James Petrigallo]

It's all perfect. What do we do? The population has increased more than fourfold since 1970. So it's going up a lot because Myrtle beach got more popular. South Carolina as a state got more popular. It's become a real destination for retired people and second home people, you know what I mean? It's in the middle of nowhere and it's quiet, but you can drive 20 minutes to Myrtle Beach. It's a lot of resorts and stuff there. Famous people from here. Only one, Vanna White is from Horry County.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. That little accent that comes through, that's where it's from.

[Jimmy Wisman]

From time to time.

[James Petrigallo]

From time to time. So reviews of this town. By the way, remember when she tried to act? That was. Yeah. That was funny.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just turn the letters.

[James Petrigallo]

It didn't work.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, you're the best there is.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, you got. You're the top of your game there. Acting, not so much.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just do it. It's job security. That job's not going anywhere for 40 fucking years.

[James Petrigallo]

No, she had it forever. Yeah, it's not exactly like Whitney Houston acting, you know, like where she was like a giant hit. It was better for her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Rock out those letters and enjoy your house. Count your money, you're doing great.

[James Petrigallo]

I'll trade jobs with you in a heartbeat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

For sure.

[James Petrigallo]

Who wouldn't touch. Doesn't even have to turn them anymore. She touches them now, for Christ's sake.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She was in video games. She was in everything.

[James Petrigallo]

So, reviews of this town. Here's five stars. I really like my community. I have been here all my life. The only downside is it takes people time to get used to outsiders. Any town where they refer to other people as outsiders, I'm a little worried. It's a little worrisome, you know? Yeah. Outsiders, huh? What are you talking about? I also hate the amount of shooting that goes on. Because it's secluded. People shoot. It's very close to the beach, which is a plus.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's very close to the beach. Let a few rounds off.

[James Petrigallo]

I was going to say you just. You wear your swim trunks and your. Your tactical vest outside when you go to go out there. Here's four stars. I've lived in Horry county for several years and it's been an overall good experience since I've lived here. Horry county has many good public schools and also has very affordable housing developments and as well as amazing tourist attractions. Oh, they went with the. And also. And as well. Together and as well. Three stars. Orry's County's main attraction is Myrtle Beach. The nightlife is good. The beach is beautiful. There is plenty to do. Amusement parks, bounce houses, roller rinks and bowling alleys. Golfing to one's desire.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

What if you don't want to do any of those things, though? What if you're not 12? What if you're not 12 or 75? What about. If you're anywhere in between there?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do it anyway.

[James Petrigallo]

There are shows like the Alabama Theater and Medieval Times Dinner Theater and many more. What's the art and culture scene around there? Well, we got a Medieval Times. Oh, okay. That says a lot. However, these things are so expensive to use. The medieval times cost 36, 95 performing children 12 and under. So apparently 36.95 for children 12 and under. That's. That's seems a bit steep.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a business though. And we don't get to decide what the business charges.

[James Petrigallo]

No. Yeah. I don't think. No. We have to do that for your stupid opinions. By the way. Medieval times in this area. And figure out this deal.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Find out what's happening there.

[James Petrigallo]

The cost of attractions in Horry county makes it difficult for families to enjoy with reasonable expectations. Okay. And here is three stars. I've lived in Horry county for 18 years and it's a great community. But all things have their drawbacks. Horrible traffic in the summer. Gee. By the beach. That's shocking.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Can you imagine? Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Like you go. I expected the beach to be quiet in the summer. No one comes here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What a drag.

[James Petrigallo]

Too many home developments and government positions are held by friends. Which if you've seen. If you've seen the Murdoch murders. Any stuff on there? Absolutely. That's how shit works there. It's who you know and who's your friend. That's how people get jobs in Horry County. Say in a job interview, one person has a four year degree and a great amount of experience. And the other person is your friend with no degree and no experience. We get it. We get what you're saying.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know if you know what. How nepotism works.

[James Petrigallo]

Jim. Let me explain it to you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Say you're in a job interview and they go on.

[James Petrigallo]

They really. They push it across the finish line and say in Horry county the friend would be hired. We. I think so. That's surprising. I expected the guy with the degree to get it. I don't know. And then it says to explain not just that it exists but how it works. The nuts and bolts of it really gotta break down. The nuts and bolts of this shit. Man.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's the greatest thing I've ever heard.

[James Petrigallo]

That is incredible. Holy shit. And then in all caps. Completely unfair.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. This person did not get the county job. They were looking for two stars. We've always loved Myrtle Beach. But Horry county is letting the hoodlums take over the grandstand.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Damn it.

[James Petrigallo]

Not the hoodlums in the grandstand with their grandstand with their loud jacked up trucks racing their engines all night long and blowing their air horns. It's a shame.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And I can't even do anything about it because their dad's best friends with the cops. And see what happens is at a.

[James Petrigallo]

Job interview it's his county commissioner. I don't know if you know this but in this town, since his Father knows the guy. God. Jesus Christ. One star here. Horry county is a good old boy county.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There you go.

[James Petrigallo]

Crime ridden. Nothing, nothing but bars and strip joints. No. No family oriented at all. No, no family oriented at all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's not what good old boy means.

[James Petrigallo]

No, not at all. If you want to party, I guess you might like it. But still I would not recommend it if you want a party, I guess. Oh, if you want to go to strip clubs and bars.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Well, yeah, because it's a tourist summer beach destination. I have lived many places all over the country. Husband was military. And South Carolina, more specifically, Horry county is the one state I in all caps. Not one good thing I can say, I can think of to say about it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

She. No, nobody ever told her. If you can't think anything nice to say.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You did say that there are strip clubs.

[James Petrigallo]

There is strip clubs. That's not bad. Population in this little area, from best I could tell because a lot of these population estimates were like, including other towns and Myrtle beach. And it's like, okay. But the best I can tell her is about almost 1200 people in this area. 1167. So it's more rural. A few more females and males. Median age here is a little bit higher because of. You're going to get some retirees here. So it's almost 48 years old, about 10 years past the national average. The married rates a little bit lower, divorce rates a little bit lower. So people just aren't getting married. So that's good for them. They figured out what they're going to do with themselves. Only 6% of the people here are single parents, which is beneath the thing, which I think old people and families. You're not going to get a lot of single parents there. I have here the percentage of households with and without children I found here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

75% of households are without children here. No children. 75% of the households, not bad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What a dream.

[James Petrigallo]

That's why there's strip clubs and bars everywhere. Nobody has kids. They have time for this shit. Yeah. Race of this town, about 85% white, 6.6% Hispanic, 3.7% black, 4.2% Asian. So it's spread around a little bit here. Median household income is just above the national average $73,997. So not bad. The median home prices here too are low. Yeah. The regular average home price, median home price is 318,879. Here it's 229,925.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Not bad.

[James Petrigallo]

Not Bad. Higher income, lower housing cost. It's not bad. So some people might be like, well, how do I get here? I want to live at the beach. I ought to live 20 minutes from the beach. Well, for you folks, we have for you the Nixonville, South Carolina real estate report found here. There's a four bedroom, five bath. So T bowl for all your B holes here. Not bad. 22, 25 square feet. Four bedroom, 2200 square feet. That's nice. Family house. It's a weird looking house. The windows are really small, which is. It's just real strange. And it is inside. You gotta completely redo the inside. Like, okay, all right. It has no kitchen. Like there's a room where a kitchen could be housed, but there is nothing in it that would resemble a kitchen or give away. That kitchen once lived here. And it's just a weird place. It's very outdated. There's fucked up carpet in all the rooms. It's like all half torn up and dirty. And gut job, gut job here. It's a mess. 195,000 bucks for that though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Worth it.

[James Petrigallo]

Not bad. Yeah, it's not bad at all. It's a great price for that house. Here is a four bedroom, three bath, 2390 square foot house. This is a nice house. It's like that other house except finished.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's done.

[James Petrigallo]

Done. And everything's nice inside. Not too bad at all. It says it's set on nearly a half acre. And it says the listing says it's priced in all caps far below market value. Offering tremendous potential for the savvy buyer willing to invest in some updates. Okay, I guess some updates that aren't cosmetic tells me there's like wiring problems or plumbing issues or something like that. You're gonna have to a roof that's fucked up. And then finally four bedroom, four bath.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How much was that?

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, I'm sorry. That is $265,000. Okay, still not terrible. That's beneath the average here. And then a four bedroom, four bath T bowl for each and every B hole. 4,592 square feet, big house on 1.43 acres. The house itself is pretty hideous from the outside. It looks like. You know how all the like apartment complexes have like buildings? Different one. It looks like a building from an east coast apartment complex. Oh, like it houses like, it houses like eight apartment units in it. That's what it looks like. It's really ugly. No charm. No charm. There's 34 pictures and not one of the inside. So what the hell does that tell you 34? 34. Nothing from the inside.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All didn't even break the threshold.

[James Petrigallo]

People don't care about what's inside.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What are you looking at?

[James Petrigallo]

And it's an ugly house. So it's 34 different angles of an ugly house. $890,000 for that though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Fucked. No, thank you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hideous. No way.

[James Petrigallo]

No. Things to do here. There's a few. First of all, the world famous Blue Crab festival. Which sounds delicious. I love a blue crab. That is good shit. So this happens on the historic Little river waterfront. Yeah, and it's one of the largest festivals held along the Grand Strand every year. Maybe that's what the guy was trying to say. Grand Strand. The hoodlums were taking over. What started as a small gathering along the banks of the Intercoastal Waterway is now a premier festival that's projected to draw over 50,000 attendees to the area in May.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn.

[James Petrigallo]

Shit. The festival features live music that's so good we won't tell you about any of it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

50,000 people are coming to see shit. You're not going to tell.

[James Petrigallo]

They're not even going to tell it. They're not even going to hire Nelly. And he plays everything. Ludacris isn't going to be here. He's at every county fair there is. For Christ's sake. 50,000 people. There's a kid zone. 200 arts, crafts and specialty food and business vendors. Also you can enjoy amazing local seafood from one of the restaurants. And they have a soft shell crab sandwich that they're pushing as their thing, which sounds goddamn delicious. I'll eat that all the time. So that takes place. It's like a weekend event. Two day weekend event. Also the Ainor Inor aynor a y N O R A nor I nor I don't know. Harvest Hoedown.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Let's head to the hoedown. Jimmy. Let's do this actual hoedown. That's. That's how it's advertised. They said, we invite you to the most exciting festival that is organized on the third Saturday in every September. Which is a terrible sentence that says don't. Of all the festivals organized on the third Saturday in September, this is the best by far.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jesus.

[James Petrigallo]

At the festivals you can participate in various events, including arts and crafts, a parade, and of course, quote, entertainment. Doesn't say what it is. Might be a ventriloquist, might be smash mouth. We have no idea.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Something will take your attention.

[James Petrigallo]

Something will do this here. And then finally the beach and Chili Fest.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay. I like both of those things, but.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't want them together. No, I don't want beach at the chili. I don't want chili at the beach at all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't mind.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't want.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't want sand in my chili.

[James Petrigallo]

Also, it's hot. What am I eating? Hot. Hot chili in the heat. What the hell is that?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is this going on in the summertime?

[James Petrigallo]

I mean, it's at the beach, so I assume so. It will feature two full days of entertainment of sandy chili that you're gonna eat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Two days of chili.

[James Petrigallo]

Two days of chili. Imagine those Porta Potties after two days of chili. It's gonna be.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's insane.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, it's going to be apocalyptic in there. Including a car show, live music, family fun chili tastings and special guests. And they talk about it's the world's best chili. Hundreds of flavors and recipes they have there. The 57th annual World Championship Cook off, presented by Bush's Beans.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, Bush's sponsor.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, yeah. It's the centerpiece of the beach and chili fest tasting.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's fascinating that a bean company is sponsoring it, and there is a. Probably an overwhelming amount of people that do not want beans in it.

[James Petrigallo]

I think they have their own opinion on it. It's probably chili bean. I would say I prefer a chili without beans, personally, but if they're in there, I'll eat that, too. I don't give a shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't care.

[James Petrigallo]

Don't give a shit. Really.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The spice is what matters and. Yep, that's good.

[James Petrigallo]

If it's a chili dog on a hot dog. Get those fucking beans out of there, though. That. That I want no part of. No beans on a hot dog. That's just. They fall off and shit. It's awkward.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So they said there's close to 300 professional chili teams.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Teams.

[James Petrigallo]

Teams. 300 of them that will battle it out for the coveted title and their share of a $75,000 prize purse. Chili pays, man. Shit. They'll also have a chance. Attendees will have a chance to influence the competition by voting for the People's Choice winner as well. And the festival wraps up Sunday with a what's called a spirited battle of the bands competition.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

Featuring local school bands. So it's not. You're going to hear 1800 Souza songs over and over again.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Are there 300 different flavors of chili? I don't think there is.

[James Petrigallo]

I think so. I think it's going to be. That one tastes a little different than that one.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That one Tastes exactly like about 60% of these.

[James Petrigallo]

You couldn't taste 300 chilies. And by 130 you would have no idea which one is which. You wouldn't even know anymore, your mouth would be so screwed. Here. So the winning band could receive up to $2,000.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just make some chili, you make more money.

[James Petrigallo]

That's what I mean. Get those kids into chili making, get them going when it's young here. And happy hour is where attendees get a free chili dog before between 4:30 and 5:30pm yeah, I'll take that. But they start out, they have a DJ and music performances. The Kind Keeper's dog fashion show. Gotta have that star performer. Stilt walker will be there. Some guy walking on stilts. A chili awards ceremony, obviously. Myrtle Beach, Pelican Splash, whatever the fuck that is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know what that is.

[James Petrigallo]

The battle of the bands is from 12 to 2. And then there's a car show. And then finally a band will be playing Miracle Max and the Pet Monsters.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yep.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know what that is. Okay, crime rate in this town here, what we're interested in, they don't have the normal crime rates in here, but I found some other shit here. They have an A grade of crime on this one website. That means the rate of assault is much lower than the U.S. average city. Nixonville is in the 91st percentile for safety, meaning 9% of cities are safer and 91% of cities are more dangerous than.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow, incredibly safe.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. The rate of assault here, very low. It's 1.1.297 per 1,000 residents. And it's very safe here. You have a very low chance of all these crimes. The A grade means that the rate of murder is much lower than the U.S. average city. Nixonville is in the 86th percentile for safety, meaning 86% of cities are more murdery than them. So there you go. That's the murder, rape, robbery.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. You get chili involved and it's very, very inviting.

[James Petrigallo]

When your butthole's burning, boy, anything can happen. Let's put it that way. You've eaten 300 different kinds of chili. Something in there has got some spices that don't agree with you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Too sort of fight.

[James Petrigallo]

Too sore to fight. So that said, let's talk about some murder. What do you say here? Okay, let's start out with some people, shall we? All right, let's talk about Gloria Diane Mills. That's her name. She'll be Gloria Diane Parker later on, but for now she's Mills. She's born in 1950. Her first name's Gloria, but she goes by Diane, which is her middle name. But her friends and close family call her Sugar. Oh, I was gonna say G.D. sugar. Yeah. G.D. mills. God damn it. Sugar. Hey, Sugar. She's born in Spartanburg, South Carolina, to parents James and Shirley. She has two brothers and three sisters, so. Jesus. Four girls and two boys. That's a. That's a hell of a house. That's a tough going there. Now, Diane is going to get married pretty young. She's going to get married when she's about 20 years old to a guy named David Livingston. Now they're going to have one child together, a daughter named Bambi. That is her real name. Her name is Bambi. They called her that. Bambi Livingston. Later on she'll be Bambi Bennett, double B.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, yeah, we're going to. She's Bambi Bennett for the rest of the time. But for now she's Livingston. She's born in 1971. Now, somewhere in the 70s, Diane and David get a divorce. Okay. They get a divorce here in the late 70s, like early 80s. And they're still working their divorce out when Diane meets a new man at church. Oh, yeah, she's big in the Tilly Swamp Baptist Church.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The what?

[James Petrigallo]

The Tilly Swamp Baptist Church. I got an idea, everybody. Don't put the word swamp in the name of anything you'd like people to go to. How's that? Nope, not exactly Tilly Swamp. Tillies might be the greatest church in the world, but it sounds like it's literally, you have to, like, wade through a swamp to get there, which doesn't sound attractive to me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And a ghillie suit is that thing that you put on to simulate being in the swamp, innit?

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know. This is Tilly. T I L R Y Tilly. Like Stairway to Stardom, lady.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sounds too close.

[James Petrigallo]

Sounds a little close, yeah. The Tilly Swamp Baptist Church, where she meets a man named Charlie Parker. Yes, Charlie Parker is his name. Charles Edward Parker. Here he's born, same year as her, 1950. He is born in Conway, which is very nearby here. We've done an episode about Conway before, actually, back in the day. Yeah, it's pretty. Pretty close to Nixonville. Like a lot of the statistical things will include Conway and Myrtle beach and Nixonville altogether. So it's all. It's in Horry County. And so he's lived in this general area his entire life. And he likes to hunt and fish and do outdoor Stuff. And how does Charles feel about being a stepdad? Well, we'll find out about all that here. He's a member of the. A member and a past master of the ORI Masonic Lodge.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So he's in a little society there. And he's also a member of the Tilly Swamp Baptist Church. Deeply religious guy and very, very, very into the religious congregation. And any event that goes on at the church, he is front and center boy right there, Mr. Mr. Religious. And so is she too. The two of them together are very, very devout, we'll say. And from what everybody says, they're devout in the right way where they just treat everybody really nice. They're really nice to everybody and they can't wait to help people. So that's very nice. Now he also owns Char. Charlie owns and operates Mirror Tech which is a business that he has.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And makes pretty good money off of that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What do they do?

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know. I assume shit with mirrors or something.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Generally thing businesses in the south are right on the nose.

[James Petrigallo]

Right on the nose.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They have like a. Like a in attack or some shit where you don't know what the fuck they make.

[James Petrigallo]

No, they're gonna tell you what they're doing here. So yeah, Mirror Tech and the way they do it too. Like he has a house and the business is sort of on his property. It's about 150 yards from the house. So he's got a bunch of employees that work in there. So he walks to work every day obviously just across the yard. And they do well. I mean he's doing great. We'll talk about her. She'll be working at a school doing her thing now they get married here and they have a son named Charlie Parker Jr. So we'll have that now everybody likes them. He's a good stepdad by the way. Doesn't mind Bambi at all. Everything's fine for now that is. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about the most safe sponsor there is. SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

SimpliSafe.com S I M P LisaFe.com that is correct.

[James Petrigallo]

Jimmy. Let's get these people safe. If you've ever worried about the safety of your home and family, there's no better time to act right now you can get. This is amazing 60% off a new Simplisafe security system. It's their best deal of the year. Simplisafe is the home security that we trust. We've been using it for years. Seven, eight years now. I think we've been used almost eight years. And I loved. We love Simplisafe. So easy to install. Honestly, it's the best. And the price of it, it's fantastic. You need it, trust us here. Simplisafe is offering our listeners exclusive early access to their Black Friday sale this week. Only you can get 60% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is their best offer of the year. Head to SimpliSafe.com Small that's SimpliSafe.com Small S I M P LisaFe.com Small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petrigallo]

All right everybody. Today we're talking about Dr. Squatch. Now you might know this brand from their natural cold processed bar soaps which are all great. They're amazing. If you haven't done it, check those out. But now they've got the same real soap formula available in body wash form. And it is good, I'm telling you right now. They're made with natural ingredients derived from coconuts and plants to provide all day skin hydration. Available in four unique and manly scents. Coconut Castaway Pine Tar Wood Barrel Bourbon and Fresh Falls. Dermatologists tested and clinically proven to provide 24 hour moisturization. So you can still smell tough while taking care of your. Maybe your soft side, you know what I mean? Dr. Squatch products are made for men. But we're telling you these soaps, no matter what and in what form are loved by all. So you really can't go wrong here everybody. My favorite by the way is the Fresh Falls. I tried that and I dig it. So what are you waiting for? Go pick one up at your favorite store [e-mail] today. Dr. Squatch Body Wash for men who prefer natural. And everybody here loves them. They are the type of people that they say, all the townspeople say they command respect from people because they're exemplary, upstanding people that have no skeletons in their closets or any shit to they.

[Jimmy Wisman]

People'S what they are.

[James Petrigallo]

They can be judgy because they're good basically. But they don't judge. They're nice people. Now 1983, remember Diane's first husband, David Livingston? He dies in 1983.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh no.

[James Petrigallo]

Dies at a very young age. Yeah, absolutely. Now Bambi at this point is 12 years old and her father's dead. It's, you know, that's not good for a 12 year old. But she inherits about 100 acres and a house from her dad at 12 years old, which is see you around, Ma. I own no property at 12 whatsoever.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got a place to be. See you around.

[James Petrigallo]

Wild. Because not only had her father died, David's father died as well. So Bambi's grandpa died. So all of their. The grandfather died, it went to David, and then David died right after that, and it all went to Bambi. So she's getting all of that. Diane at this point is working as a school secretary with the Horry county school district. And her main hobbies are yard sales and antiquing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

Make getting crafty shit. She likes crafty stuff.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that's. That's the ladies safe version of gold panning.

[James Petrigallo]

Yes, it is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sometimes you walk into an antique shop and be like, don't say shit. But that thing's 9.95. 30.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, I can sell it on ebay. No, it's. Yeah, that is kind of what it is. It's either. Either that or like a casino type of deal almost. Yeah. Like a penny slot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But you gotta. You gotta purchase it and go home and then start looking, researching it to find out what you really made on this.

[James Petrigallo]

You have to know ahead of time here. So during the 1980s. Now Bambi's dad is dead, so all she's got is her mom and her stepdad at this point, 100 acres and 100 acres to spread out. Mom, I'm going to my acreage. Fuck you. And there's a house there too. It's not even like she got to pitch a tent. I'm going to my property.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got a house.

[James Petrigallo]

I have my own trash to take out on my property. So Diane and Bambi are pretty close, though, over the 80s, as you'd expect here. Tuesday BB who is one of Bambi's cousins. Tuesday. BB is her name.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Tuesday's her first name.

[James Petrigallo]

Her first name is Tuesday. Tuesday BB I've heard. I've seen Wednesday like Adams. I've never seen anyone named Tuesday before. Actually, I think I have never heard of it. I have one other person I've heard of. Tuesday. So she was the maid of honor at Bambi's first wedding. Bambi will have plenty of weddings, don't you worry.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, yeah. Bambi is a bit of a mess here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She likes to get married.

[James Petrigallo]

Bambi's a bit of a bumbler when it comes to the vows. So she's the, like I said, maid of honor at the first wedding. And she said that Bambi and her mother were almost inseparable at that point. She said about the mom, she wouldn't leave her side. The whole family are very well respected, she said, so very nice. 1990 comes around, and Bambi's going through a divorce. I believe this is her second husband, possibly maybe her first, not sure. So she, at this point, going through a divorce and owning 100 acres in a house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Is a problem because she doesn't want this guy to get any of her inheritance, Right?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Her shit.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, her shit. So rather than having to sell it or something, she's trying to keep the land away from her husband. So Bambi deeds the property, including the house, to her mother in 1990.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Brilliant.

[James Petrigallo]

And by the way, this is where the family's gonna live in this house on this acreage.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's where they're gonna live, set up their business. There's. Hey, Bambi, we're gonna use your shit. Which is. That's a weird dynamic. That's a weird power dynamic between parent and child. If the child owns the home, if.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The child's net worth is more than their parents.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, that's just. That has to be real weird. Yeah. It's my house, God damn it. I'll do what I want.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're 13. Don't talk to me like that.

[James Petrigallo]

Well, you don't talk to me like that in my own house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll call the constable and have you removed.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. That's so fucking crazy. So she's going to do that. Bennett here. Bambi said later on that Diane persuaded her to deed the property before she divorced her husband. Bennett said she agreed. Bambi does, but thinking it would keep her husband from claiming half the property in the divorce. So Bambi also said her mother refused to return the property to her when asked because after the divorce was fine. She said, okay, deed the property back to me. And she said, well, can't really do that right now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What'd she do?

[James Petrigallo]

She said, why can't you do that right now?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Mortgaged it.

[James Petrigallo]

Got some mortgage on it right now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You bastard.

[James Petrigallo]

You mortgaged my inheritance. Thank you. What the fuck? So she also said her mother sold a few acres of different parcels of acreage of the property as well, without her knowledge.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What the hell?

[James Petrigallo]

She wasn't real happy about that. And, yeah, county records show that Diane had sold several parcels of the property since 1990. So whenever she needs a little money, she'll sell off a parcel. It started out as 100 acres. It's now about 67 acres. So she sold off. She sold a third of the shit off. And there's an outstanding mortgage on that 67 acres. So now there's less land, and it's not really yours anymore. Good news, bad news. Yeah, less land to pay taxes on. Good news, bad news.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You also gotta pay homeowners insurance.

[James Petrigallo]

There's also a mortgage. Now, Bambi, after the 90s, she will have been married three times and has four children. Two from one marriage, two from another. And one of the marriages produced nobody. So seems like in the. Around the turn of the century here, 1999, 2000, she seems to only have about two kids living with her that has her sons that were born in 91 and 93 after she got remarried. So young fellas, under 10. Yeah, young kids here. Diane, at one point in 1999, tried to get Bambi's kids from her. What? Yes, she went to court to try to get the kids from her daughter, her grandkids. So she sought custody of the two grandsons, not the. Not the other two kids from her daughter here. And. Yeah, this was. And her, by the way, Bambi's third husband, who's the father of these daughter of the grandsons. His name is Charlie also.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How's he doing? He's evidently not so great either.

[James Petrigallo]

Not so great either here. The family court, though, allowed Bambi to keep her children. To take children away from a mother, especially if you're not the father, it's very difficult. They have to really be. It has to be abusive. They have to have no food. Like it has to be.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, you gotta make a really strong case of neglect to be with them.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, God. Like they're in danger. So in court documents, Diane said the boys lived with her at the time, and she cared for them for three years before she sought custody. So she said for her, it's just a matter of. They're with me anyway. I need to be able to do things and have power.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They're with me. I'd like the tax benefits.

[James Petrigallo]

The tax benefits. Not only that, but also I think the doctor rights and all of those things. I mean, there's just decisions that you have to be. Have custody to make, even if you want to travel with them or something. You know what I mean? Stuff like that. So she said in an affidavit, I am very concerned for the safety of my grandsons. That's not good, she said. I consulted an attorney about getting legal custody of my grandsons because I was afraid that Bambi's behavior was becoming more erratic.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. She said that she had to quit her job at Conway Middle School to take care of the children full time as well. She's like, I'm doing this. I should also get custody. And then in a separate affidavit filed by Charlie Parker, Senior Bambi stepdad, he said that Bambi had a serious drug problem and that he and his wife had tried to get Bambi help. And she's been admitted to two drug programs in the past, and they don't take.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How about that?

[James Petrigallo]

So she's erratic, she's unstable, and she's on drugs, and we can't get her to stop. So we'd like to take care of the kids, which is actually. Yeah, Yeah, I would think so. It's. Yeah, probably That's. That would be the only thing. That would be our heroin. I mean, one of those two. It has to be one of the big ones. Yeah, yeah. So she's. I mean, this. I. It sounds like the grandparents give a shit about the kids.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure do.

[James Petrigallo]

And want to take care of them and make sure that they're okay. A lot of grandparents would be like, I don't know. That's her fucking problem. We're living our golden years. Leave me alone. But they're not into that at all. He said in the affidavit that when Bambi used drugs, her behavior becomes very erratic. She screams and curses with no thought that the children are right there and hearing everything that comes out of her mouth. Okay, again, the drugs are a thing. But you're allowed to curse around your kids. That's not a. Yeah, you don't get.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Freedom of speech and stuff.

[James Petrigallo]

Well, I mean. Yeah, they're your kids. You can. Outside of hitting them or molesting them, you could pretty much do whatever you want with them. As long as you feed them and give them a house to live in, I think it's fine in some places.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Encourage that hitting part.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, yeah. So in her response, Bambi says that she's not hooked on prescription drugs, as her mother said. Oh, her mom said she's been hooked on painkillers. I guess she said, I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia syndrome in 1994, and I'm only on prescription medications that are doctor prescribed. What? Doesn't mean that you're not whacked out on painkillers all the time, though. I mean, that's. Most painkillers are doctor prescribed, so a lot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A lot of pill addicts say that these are prescribed. You're taking a shitload of them. Yeah, but the doctor said I can.

[James Petrigallo]

Said I can. I Did go to seven different doctors to get a bunch of different prescriptions.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The doctor's all said I should take these.

[James Petrigallo]

They all told me to take two. So I listened to all of them. I took 14.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So she denied the children live with her mother for three years. She said her mother offered to help her with the boys because she was alone at the time, and they moved freely between her home and her mother's home. The boys did anyway. Bambi said that because her mother was helping her, she had the child support checks sent directly to her mother as a thanks for helping me with my children, not because they were living with her. Oh, so she helped so much that you send the child support checks directly to her. That sounds like more than just.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, it's a lot of help.

[James Petrigallo]

That sounds like a shitload of help there, I would say. So Bennett here accused her mother of only caring about her sons, meaning Bambi sons, but not about Bambi's daughters. Oh, don't give a shit about them. Only the boys.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Aren't they on their own?

[James Petrigallo]

Who? The.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The girls. The daughters.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She doesn't have to. I mean, she gives a shit about him, but she doesn't. She's not focused on them because these.

[James Petrigallo]

Boys need help, I think, but she's saying that, like, the girls are in the same boat, but she gives a shit about the boys. So that's all there is here. So that's. That's fucking treating them like a paycheck or some shit. I guess that's what she said. I don't know what she's saying either way. I don't know what. How that would matter in court, whether she cares more about the sons. And that doesn't make any sense at all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's trying to care for them.

[James Petrigallo]

So somehow through all of this, Bambi and Diane keep kind of coming back to each other, though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

They fought in court multiple times, but they end up always kind of when Bambi is down on her luck or she comes back and needs to live with them for a while, they are always okay with it. So.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that's.

[James Petrigallo]

And that's. That's. That's part of it. So. Yeah, I mean, you have to help, I guess, and especially them.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's what families do for each other, generally.

[James Petrigallo]

Yes. And if you're gonna be Mr. Fucking Christian, then back it up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

You know, fucking tend to your flock, motherfucker. What do you want? Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. So 2005, here Bambi is Still married to Charlie Bennett, even though they haven't been together for years. It's been like five, six years, but they're still technically married. Yeah, that's. That's tough. So that's her third husband, Charlie, like we said. And she though, has moved on from Charlie and has a new boyfriend she lives with. And this name is a name we've heard before. It came up in our shout outs. And it also is a very popular murderer name. For some reason, several murderers have this name. Richard Gagnon.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

G, A, G, N, O, N. Dickie Gaganon. Yep. Gagnon, comma, dick. That's what we got here. Dickie Gaggs here, 1973, he's born. He's two years younger than Bambi and they've been dating for about two years now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She loves him.

[James Petrigallo]

Anytime you want to push that paperwork through on the divorce would probably be great.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Probably pull that trigger pretty quick here.

[James Petrigallo]

But no, yeah, they've been dating. Their relationship started after he got a job working for her parents at Mirror Tech. Oh, that's how they meet. Yeah. You meet a girl who lives on the property of your job, that's pretty easy to.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This town really is into the nepotism, up to including pussy.

[James Petrigallo]

Now, if you work here, one of the perks is you do get to fuck my daughter.

[Jimmy Wisman]

See, if there's a job interview. You gotta fuck the boss's daughter.

[James Petrigallo]

You gotta fuck the boss's daughter.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If you do a good job, she'll date you and you get the job.

[James Petrigallo]

That's how it works. Otherwise she gonna find somebody else to hire.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So otherwise she's probably gonna fuck her dad's friend.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. So at this point now, he ends up kind of moving in with them. So we have Charlie and Diane, the parents. We have Bambi and Dicky Gags.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

And two of her kids at some point.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The boys? Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Yes. Not the girls? No, no, the boys are gone now. Now we have the girls, by the way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now we have the girls back.

[James Petrigallo]

The boys are now with her husband from her second marriage in Texas.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy.

[James Petrigallo]

And two and her daughters are here with Charlie and Diane and whatever. So I guess the Socastee area. I can't remember how you say that. We did an episode about it. But that area is where Charlie Bennett, the ex husband, lives, or soon to be ex husband lives. That's where the daughters are. So sons are in Texas. Daughters live with their father close by. Close by, essentially. Now, have Bambi or Dicky Gags ever been in trouble?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yes.

[James Petrigallo]

Let's find Out. Well, actually, Bennett has no criminal record. Somehow.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

Somehow, Bambi Bennett's managed to float through life having some questionable decisions and functioning pill addict. Not getting arrested. At least she's not driving. She's doing whatever. So that's in South Carolina where she's born and raised. Dicky Gags, though, he's got several convictions from other places we'll talk about here. Petty larceny in 1991. Okay. I think he was 17 at the time, too. So, I mean, I'll give him that. He went to Florida at some point. Here he was charged with driving under the influence in Florida in 1994. But that's just how you get hammered. That's just how you get Florida citizenship, though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

They don't let you DUI there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You are hammered.

[James Petrigallo]

Absolutely. I feel like you can't get on the voting roll or anything. Like, you can't, like, you know, get on any of the local things without.

[Jimmy Wisman]

At least one blowing this. You're gonna need a few more drinks.

[James Petrigallo]

You're a little low, son.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The breathalyzers in the cars there, they only start if you blow a 0.07.

[James Petrigallo]

You gotta blow a 0.07. That's how they know that you're comfortable driving, so they want you to. So, yeah, he drove under the influence in 94. Then he is charged with. And this is a lot more serious in 1999 in Pennsylvania. So that's going, by the way, all over the fucking place. New York, Florida, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and 1999. He is arrested and charged and convicted of aggravated assault on a police officer in 1999.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Aggravated.

[James Petrigallo]

That's a charge right there. Yeah, that is big time. And he is sentenced in that case to. You, sir, may fuck off. Two to four years in.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petrigallo]

So apparently, though, that was in 99. He's out by 2003 because that's when he meets Bambi and they start hooking up. So that's the history of them. Now, Bambi and dicky gags, by 2005, there's been problems with the parents that we'll talk about. Sure. So they said, fuck this. We're not living in this house with you people. Yeah. Bambi and Dicky Gags and the kids, when they come over, live in a tent in the woods.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petrigallo]

A tent in the woods.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's the option.

[James Petrigallo]

That's the option. They are homeless people on their own property, essentially. So a tent. They live in a fucking tent. That says a lot right there. Yeah, in the woods. So Bambi lives in the woods. That's pretty fun.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yep.

[James Petrigallo]

And there's problems here. One guy, George Carrick, he works for the Parkers at Mirror Tech, he said that Dick and Dickie Gaggs and Bambi lived with the Parkers but were kicked out of the house and living in the tent behind the home for a couple months here. So they have. They only visit the house to shower and eat when the parents are away. So, like, if they go somewhere, they come in and shower and get some food and then scurry back out into the woods.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're leaving. Clean yourselves up.

[James Petrigallo]

Clean yourself.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We'll be back, so make it fast.

[James Petrigallo]

I'm surprised they don't just like hang a hose from a hook outside and they're like, there you go. There's your shower. Like, that's what it seems like is going on here. So apparently this Carrick guy, the employee, said that Charlie Parker Sr. And Bambi Bennett had spats back and forth sometimes, most of the time over the acreage. I should own this part and you should own that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is mine, this is yours.

[James Petrigallo]

It's been 15 years and they're still fighting about land, which is interesting here. They have. There's troubles also, obviously, with child custody fights that'll leave a little acrimony in your relationship. And so, you know, it's all that kind of thing. January of 2005, Dickie Gagnon is fired from his job at Mirror Tech.

[Jimmy Wisman]

By her father.

[James Petrigallo]

By her father. So to fire a man who lives literally at the fucking office, lives in the woods outside the office, who is dating your stepdaughter, you gotta be a real fuck up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's certainly fucked up. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Nepotism wouldn't even help this guy. I mean, good Lord. Good old Murtaugh style fucking nepotism won't even help him. That is wild. So now, April 2005, the entire region is on pins and needles, on edge because there's a guy named Steven Stanko on the loose. I believe we've talked about Steven Stanko before. He is the subject of a nationwide manhunt and is being sought for a sexual assault and a killing in Muriel's Inlet in. And a killing in Conway. So double murder rapist very close by. Yeah, one's right here and one's on the other side of it. So that's right. There he is charged with the murder of. In the deaths of Laura Ling and Henry Lee Turner and with the rape and assault in an attack on a 15 year old girl before he slit her throat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good guy.

[James Petrigallo]

He attacked and raped a 15 year old and slit her throat. He's a very, very dangerous person out here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And there's no, there's no rhyme or reason to it. He's like the Night Stalker. He's like Richard Ramirez. He'll kill a couple, he'll kill a 15 year old. If an 80 year old is there, he'll kill her. He doesn't care.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They weren't even related.

[James Petrigallo]

No, no, this was separate incidents. One was in Conway, one was in another town. So they were in different goddamn towns. So that's. Everybody is like doors locked, information on the news coming up. Did they catch this guy yet? Because everybody's terrified keeping any. If you have a teenage girl, she is locked up in the house. Crazy time. So April 12, 2005, it's about 7am and man, Charlie Parker must go to work early because by 7am he's so late that his employees are coming to the house to look for him. 7am 7am he's so late that they're coming over. What the fuck time does he get there? So that's, he comes to the house, it's George Carrick, the employee and Charlie Parker Jr. Who works there as well. They go to the house, they walk across the yard basically to the house there. And they are trying to figure out what's going on. So Carrick said that he. They went into the house and right away they looked down the hallway and in the entrance to the bedroom. Carrick said he saw Diane Parker on the floor at the entrance to the bedroom. And Charlie Parker was on the bathroom floor. When they went to check closer to the mother to see if she. Diane. To see if she was alive or okay, they saw Charlie in the bathroom laying on the floor and there's blood everywhere, they have holes in them. It's not great, it's disturbing. So Carrick says, quote, little Charlie was going nuts with his dad. So I told him to get out, it was too late. Yeah, his boy found him and he said he was trying to like revive him and it was not, it wasn't. We were well beyond the point of reviving. So he said, it's too late, man. You're just, you're just, you know, don't come in here anymore. Go outside. So he called 911 on his cell. When they went outside, as they're leaving, they noted broken glass in the door from the kitchen leading into the kitchen from outside. The whole glass door shattered. So Carrick though the employee said at the time, I assume Charlie Meaning old man Charlie must have locked himself out and had to break the window to get in at some point. So he was like, oh, that must be what happened here. But it's not. So they call Tyler Keynes. Comes he shows up the Horry county police officer, which sounds like a South Carolina police officer, Tyler Keynes. He was called to the home at 8:53am or at least that's when he got there. So that's a lot of time to go by. He secured this crime scene, waited for investigators. Now they found Diane, like we said, shot in the entryway to the bedroom, to the master bedroom. Charlie Parker Senior, in a nearby bathroom. Diane was shot twice in the chest, once in the left arm. Gunshots and left there. Yes. She also had a fractured collarbone and bruises all over her, by the way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Beat up.

[James Petrigallo]

So she got beat the shit probably. Show me where it is. Show me where it is, is what the cops are thinking. And she maybe wouldn't. And so he shot her or whatever. However it worked, she's found lying on her back there. Charlie. Charles Parker Senior, shot twice in the abdomen and once in the face. So somebody really gets the job done. They do. Three shots for each person. He was found in the bathroom. There were eight gunshots total fired inside the home based on the nine millimeter shell casings and bullet holes found. So eight shots, six of them connected, which is a pretty good ratio here. Police find no cash inside the home and no evidence that the Parkers fired any guns back at the intruder. Seems to be all from the same 9 millimeter. All the shells, all the, all the casings on the ground are all from the same, same rounds.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Were not returning fire.

[James Petrigallo]

Not returning fire. Yeah, this seems like an early morning surprise here. They also, they. They figure that the broken glass is how the intruders came in the house. Yeah, because it shattered. There is a keepsake box on a dresser inside the master bedroom that was clearly rummaged through.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And also there were papers inside a woman's boot found on the bed as well. So they were originally inside a boot and the boots nearby. And the papers are spread out on the bed as well. So maybe like somebody was going looking for cash and they said maybe they hide in their boots. Oh, there's something and pulled it out and it was paper and they were like, I fuck this and threw it down. Something like that. Police find though, Diane's purse and Charlie's wallet on the bed with this paperwork.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So sitting right there, which is odd. They're both 54 years old, both dead. They say they're trying to figure it out. Sometime between 8:30 between the evening of April 11 and 7:30am the next morning, they were killed. They're not trying to figure that out. So now Carrick, the employee for Mirror Tech, said he spoke briefly with Bambi Bennett when she and Dicky Gags arrived a few hours later. He said, sure, sure. And Carrick said he was trying to console Bambi, telling her that her mom did not suffer. So she didn't suffer. She was killed right away. It was very quick, probably, and whatever. So the killings immediately. It's Stanko.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Everybody's nuts.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Everybody goes, holy shit. He's. I mean, lock it down even harder. He's here now. Absolutely. I mean, fear, right. Radiates throughout this community. Immediately they. He got another one here. And so that was crazy. But that same day of April 12, where the bodies are found, Stanko is found in Georgia. Oh, and evidence says that he probably wasn't in South Carolina earlier today.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

So they don't think it's him, which is a problem because they were really like, we got it. It's this guy. Fuck him. And then they found him. Like, he's pretty far away. He could have got there, though. But then they found some evidence that he wasn't. And they're like, well, shit, that doesn't work. So now, sometime before the funeral, now this is between the deaths of Charlie and Diane and their funerals. Bambi makes attempts to sell about 100 acres of property at this point. Okay, they're not even in the ground yet.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

But she, I guess everything goes to her. She had inherited it, deeded it to her mother. And he said, I guess she contacted a real estate broker indicating an interest in selling the property quickly. Gotta get it unloaded right now. So also, Dickie Gaggs here called his mother after the murders to ask her advice of who do you think you probably know more about this than me, Mom. Who do you think is going to get control of the property now that they're dead? Bambi will have control, right? Like he's working it out like that. And then the funny thing is, Bambi, they asked Bambi about it. Bambi said, well, she only called the real estate agent to share news about the deaths. Oh, she wasn't trying to sell anything. Meanwhile, the real estate agent was like, she wanted to sell 100 acres quick.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I tell a lot of people all.

[James Petrigallo]

About my business, everybody. So Bambi ends up getting all of it, Everything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really.

[James Petrigallo]

Yup. Jennifer Parker, who is Diane's sister, in law said that Bambi received all the property owned by her mother and stepfather after their deaths. I don't know why none of that went to Junior.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Doesn't get shit.

[James Petrigallo]

Didn't get ugats, which is crazy, right? It's all Bambi. She said that Bambi received a total of about $700,000 from a trust fund as well. In addition to the property, Bambi got paid. Bambi got paid. Now she's got 100 acres, a house, a business, and $700,000. She's doing great.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, you can retire there, right? That's done.

[James Petrigallo]

Shit. Let the business do its thing and that's that. So Jennifer Parker there, the sister in law of Diane, said Bambi got it all. And Parker, I guess, was in control. Jennifer Parker was in control of the estate up until this point. They had her managed shit. So then they said she said she had to give it all over to Bambi.

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[James Petrigallo]

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[James Petrigallo]

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[Jimmy Wisman]

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[James Petrigallo]

So Jennifer also says that there was a lot of anger between Bambi and her parents prior to the deaths because the cops are talking to everybody and she says, I mean Bambi and her mom were fighting for the last 15 years essentially so. And she got everything and she gets everything. So the police interview several people who place Bambi and Richard at the Parker's home the night before the bodies were found. Several people said they went to the house the night before and they don't. They might have been killed the night before.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petrigallo]

So they said that it's, it's very interesting. They said forensic evidence was found at the Parker's home that would provide reason to believe that they, Bambi and Richard were present at the time the Parkers were shot as well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petrigallo]

Then they find four fresh blood droplets collected from the home where the murders occurred. From these droplets here, they send that off to develop a DNA profile. The profile doesn't match either of the victims or Dickie Gagnon. Oh, but they are able to determine this particular blood. All four of these drops belong to one person. So they enter the profile of the unknown individual into the database in case it comes up. She'll be a hit. So people say here that Richard was mad at the Parkers. That's what all the cops are getting from everybody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Gagnon is mad.

[James Petrigallo]

Gagnon is pissed off here. Yes. One of the people here said that Dick was asked to leave the Parker's home a few weeks before they were killed and go live in the woods. And Jennifer Parker, the sister in law, said, I think they were afraid of him. And they did say Jennifer Parker did say that Gagnon doesn't receive anything from the estate, which I don't know why he would. Who will shit to their daughter's boyfriend?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Some dipshit.

[James Petrigallo]

Some dipshit who just got out of prison and we fired. Yeah. So one guy employed by Coastal Glass named James Moore, he said that Richard Gagnon was, quote, real angry at the Parkers because of ongoing issues involving land and child custody. Now, Mirror Tech was a subcontractor for Coastal Glass at the time. It's definitely Glass. And this guy said about Dicky Gagnon, he was just real shaky. He was really, really angry. So this is in the weeks leading up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, it's none of his business. None of his shit matters. You're not married to anybody here.

[James Petrigallo]

You're not married here. You have no say or title or claim to any of this shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Be lucky you have kids with nobody here.

[James Petrigallo]

And apparently, unless they let you live here, you live in a fucking tent. That's the best you can provide for yourself. So. Jesus Christ. He said at one point here, Eric sides of Coastal Glass said that Dick Gagnon told him and other co workers details of the murders of the Parkers.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petrigallo]

Including details of how they were shot and how nothing was missing from the home. This is in the last couple days following the shooting. So the employee said, I don't know why he told me. I wish he would have. I wish he wouldn't have.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, don't tell me any of this.

[James Petrigallo]

So Richard said he learned. He only told them because he learned the details of the crime scene from a pair from George and Charlie Parker Jr. Who found the bodies. He said, I heard from them. They were in there and they told me. And how. I told these people I didn't know. I don't know anything more than anyone else.

[Jimmy Wisman]

My girlfriend's family said, yeah, absolutely.

[James Petrigallo]

Now, gunshot residue, they test everybody for gunshot residue.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

They find none on Dickie Gagnon's hands, none on Bambi's hands. They do find gunshot residue on Charlie Parker Jr. S hands.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

Yes. But he has no motive for this because he gets nothing. So it makes no sense.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, CP2's got no interest in this.

[James Petrigallo]

No interest in this. So after all of this here, after all of their going around, they can't get past the fact that. And we'll talk about. There's another reason here. They find a spot of blood on the bottom of one of Dick Gagnon's shoes that matches Charlie Parker scene on the sole of his ship. So they are very suspicious from that. They don't like that Richard has been telling people about the crime scene. They think that's odd they think that Bambi has all the motivation in the world here because she gets everything and doesn't have to live in a fucking tent anymore. So about a week after the murders, Bambi and Richard are gonna be arrested for murder. Oh, yes. Which it seems real like they don't have enough at this point.

[Jimmy Wisman]

To me, that's just because you've got somebody's blood. I mean, granted, I don't. I spend a lot of time with you and I like you a lot.

[James Petrigallo]

But my blood probably. Probably not on your shoes. I doubt it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, I don't think I got any blood anywhere near me.

[James Petrigallo]

No. No where near you. So that's. I mean, I can. If you lived with someone, you'd have more blood.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But you know, that might be your fault because you're hoarding it all. You keep it all locked away.

[James Petrigallo]

I'm hardly any ever letting any of it. So, I mean, what do we want really? Keeping it all leaker stuffed in my body like a little bitch. So, yeah, they're both arrested, they're booked into the detention center. And there we go. So now the charges. It's about two weeks after the murder. They're going to charge them with murder and burglary as well for breaking the glass and going in.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They really believe this?

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, yeah. They released the arrest warrants and first degree burglary, two counts each of murder. And. Let's do this shit. So, okay, now the reactions. People are shocked by this. This is the perfect family.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Diane Parker of Georgetown, who is the sister in law of Diane Parker of Nixonville.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Said the hardest part is that it is a family member. It's heartbreaking. We keep hoping that this isn't true. Meaning that Bambi didn't kill her mother. Be one thing if a serial killer broke in and killed everybody, we can understand that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that seems more plausible.

[James Petrigallo]

It seems more plausible than a chick named Bambi did it. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So Diane said she had not seen this. Diane had said she'd not seen Bambi for years before hearing about the arrest. But she said she knew from other people that Bambi had become distant with the family. Now, a neighbor here, Bill Haines, he lives up the road and knew Diane Parker for 30 years, said that the arrests will bring some closure in a time of fear here because of the Stanko thing, everybody's been shitting their pants, you know, on bated breath and everything else. So she. This guy said, I thought maybe a murderer was on the loose out here. I Don't like sleeping with a gun under my bed, but I think a lot of people were.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Two people were murdered. Yeah, There was a murderer.

[James Petrigallo]

There's a murderer there. I thought maybe a murderer was. Yeah, someone is a murderer. That we know for sure. Jesus Christ. So then they're still talking about, though the blood that they found. The four droplets don't match either Richard or Bambi or Charlie Parker Jr. Oh, boy. So we have one with blood on his shoe, one with a motive, and then the other guy with gunshot residue. But the blood on the ground matches. No.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Three of these people missing everybody.

[James Petrigallo]

This is. Dude, if you're a cop, wouldn't you be really confused here? Okay?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'd be mad because you can't. This ain't slam dunk for anything.

[James Petrigallo]

No one has motive, one has this, one has that. But none of it goes together, so it makes no sense. So the blood here, the testimony they find in a hearing here, the sled, which is the State Law Enforcement Division agent, indicated blood found on a pair of sneakers at Gagnon's home because they had moved to Myrtle beach right after this, matched that of Charles Parker Senior. And a DNA expert said that the blood was found on the sole of the shoe. Now, they asked Dick, how'd you get his blood on your shoes? He said he got the blood on his shoes when he went to close the blinds to keep Bambi from seeing the blood on the floor in the bathroom where Charlie Parker Sr. Was found.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, I was wearing these that day that I was in the house.

[James Petrigallo]

I was. I went in the house to get Bambi's keys in her cell phone. He said, okay, sir, a cell phone that was in there. So she. He said, I went in there and I closed the blinds and there was blood everywhere. He said, quote, I tried to step around it as best I could.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

But apparently not good enough. That's his story, though. I went in there later on that day. What do you want?

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's not a bad story.

[James Petrigallo]

I mean, it's plausible. So they're in jail here for six months. Okay. Wow. While awaiting trial. And they can't make bond. And there is no bond. It's a no bond situation. So they do want a bond, though. And there's a judge who's expecting to consider bond for the second time here. Bambi and Richard have been jailed nearly six months. And so they say, either move on with this or let us out, basically. So one of Bambi's relatives pleads to the judge for the bond to be rejected and says, he and other family members would fear for their lives. If Bambi's put out on the street, okay, she's going to come after us. So. The prosecutors also said possible motives on Bennett's part included conflict over all this shit and you get inherited everything. So Bennett's lawyers said child custody was not an issue between Bennett and her mother anymore. That, that's. That was over.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So, yeah, we buried the hatchet, sorted it out.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. So let them out on bond. The judge rejects bonds for both of them here. He cited Bambi's relatives fears and the fact that the prosecutors are awaiting additional test results on forensic evidence in the killings. And so, you know, until it's all sorted out, you're staying in jail. Charlie Parker here, junior, he said that's all we wanted, was to keep them in jail. Okay, but, well, why do you have gunshot residue on your hands too? I mean, maybe you were out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What guns are you firing?

[James Petrigallo]

Were you out shooting that morning or something like, that's weird. So. And by the way, that I did that review, or we did the review about the shooting in the beginning to see. To show you that gunshots are common in this area, so nobody really even notices them. So they said the. They spell out the whole crime. The prosecutors do. Then Tim Johnson, who is Bambi's uncle, and the families. The chosen family spokesperson. Yeah, I'm going to tell my family right now there's ever a tragedy that we have to speak to the media about. I'm not your spokesperson. Pick somebody else. Those fuckers would try to make me do it. I know it. Well, you're used to talking on shit. You know how to do that. No, I'm not. Family spokesperson. Not doing it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't want to put our shit.

[James Petrigallo]

Out there not speaking for you people. Not happening. So he said that, pleaded with the judge to reject the bond, saying, quote, if she could kill her mother, she will kill anyone.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a great point.

[James Petrigallo]

That's a good point. That's a real good point. And Johnson said he and other family members would fear for their safety, which, I mean, I don't blame them. The bond is denied. Bambi's lawyer afterwards said, I'm appalled. Eventually she will get bond based on what? A lot of times, two counts of first degree murder, you usually don't get bond.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's tough to get out of there on one count, first murder.

[James Petrigallo]

They won't even let Puff Daddy out, for Christ's sake. On bot. You know what I mean? I know he did bad shit, but there's not two dead people out of it, so that we know of. I mean, there's Biggie and Tupac, but we're not sure if that's him or not. So Dickey Gagnon's lawyer said, I think the judge erred on the side of caution for all parties. Yeah, he does say he thinks that Dick will be exonerated when all the evidence is available. Yeah, that's what's going to happen. The prosecutor said he was very happy the bonds were denied, and he considers both Bennett and Gagnon both flight risks as well, because they have really nothing to lose here. He said there is real genuine fear and concern in that family about what might happen to them if she is released. I mean, you think she's going to get out like a drooling maniac, like, I'm going to go kill my whole family now? Maybe, but if you were got out on bond for murder, that would probably not be the best course of action. To go kill more people?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, yeah. Especially if you're claiming innocent. If you're saying not guilty and then you're gonna go out and murder a bunch of people that I think they're gonna get you on all of them.

[James Petrigallo]

And they've already told a judge that they're afraid she'll murder them. So, I mean, she's the only suspect at that point. She's in deep shit. Like, if you're her and you're out on bond, you want to hire a bodyguard for these people, make sure nothing happens to them, because otherwise they're gonna blame you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Blamed. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Yep. So after about a month, after the DNA or the bond is denied, they let Barb Bambi out of jail. They dropped the charges against her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

They just drop them? They say there's a lack of DNA evidence, and the only evidence they have is that she's with Dick. But they don't have any physical evidence on her. And they have no. They don't show enough cause to hold her, so they have to drop the charges. Judge said basically, either drop the fucking charges or we're going to do a low bond and whatever. But, you know, you don't have evidence, Right. They kept telling the judge, we're waiting on physical evidence results. Hold them. Hold them. When they came in and there was nothing linking Bambi to it, they said, I mean, what are we doing here? Yeah, let her out. So the prosecutor, Greg Hembree, drops the charges. He said the decision was hinged on a substance found on one of Bennett's boots that after testing, did not Produce a DNA sample. So they said they thought they had blood on her boots, but no, they couldn't extract any DNA from it. They might have been blood, but they couldn't get anything out of it like it had been cleaned and they found it. So the prosecutor said he can reinstate the charges when more evidence materializes. So don't worry, Bambi. You hang on here. Now, Dicky Gaggs is going to go to trial here on this. He says he's innocent. He claims 100% innocence. He says, you fucking people are crazy. Sure, I have blood on my shoe. Sure, my girlfriend has all the motivation in the world, and I assault police officers, and I'm kind of a scumbag, and I live in the woods. None of that makes me a murderer, pal. So in a pretrial hearing, the defense lawyers for Dickie Gagnon asked that items taken from Gagnon's home and his vehicle not be allowed at trial. Trying to get evidence thrown out. So they describe him as clean shaven, shackled, and wearing a brown jumpsuit. Very fashionable. So during the hearing, a detective of the Horry County Police Department testifies that a coworker of Gagnon's told him that harm should be done to the Parkers. That's what Gagnon said, really, harm should be done because they were interfering in Bambi's child custody and property issues.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

This guy also testifies, by the way, this detective's name is Livingston. That's why I didn't say, because that would just be confusing. Not related to David or Bambi or any of these people. It's just they all have the same name for some reason. So Livingston testified. Damn it. This cop testifies there's quite a bit of blood found in the home, including the hallways, bedroom, and bathroom. The defense attorney said search warrants obtained by police to Serge Gagnon's home and vehicle were vague and obtained information. And they things they obtained were not in the police reports. So they said the one guy told a man, said a man told police that a white vehicle was driving around the Parker home the night of the killings, which is what he drives. Gagnon. Yeah, that's why that was why they got to search the vehicle, was because of that. And he drives a. But later on, because he drives a Chevy Blazer, a white Chevy Blazer. Gagnon. Later on in the interview, though, the man changed his mind and said, no, no, it was a van, not a Chevy Blazer. I'm pretty sure thinking about it now. I think it was a van. So we have a White vehicle that's not a car, but van or Blazer.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is a white enclosed vehicle that can hold extra shit.

[James Petrigallo]

That can hold extra people and shit. All of this information will be allowed at trial. The judge rules, so they're allowing all of it in. And he's shit. He's been in jail since it fucking happened here. So it's been a while. Now the trial comes up. Bambi will not testify.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay?

[James Petrigallo]

Not because she refuses, because the prosecutors decided early on not to call her to the stand because she had different versions of different stories, quote, unquote. The prosecutor said, so. This is amazing. There's no evidence against her and she has no consistent story. So not only can they not charge her, they're not gonna even make her testify because.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, because that's not good. That's bad for them.

[James Petrigallo]

She just, like, dumbed her way out of this somehow. Like, that's good for her. Wild. Good for you, Bambi. Yeah, nice. Nice work in the openings here. The prosecutor said that Gagnon's knowledge of the crime scene was far superior to law enforcement and led police to believe he was involved. And they also. That's what led them to believe that. And the prosecutor also said that Richard made threatening statements to co workers about the park, about the Parkers, the he was so angry he was shaking thing. And also the prosecutor says that Dick and Bambi's poor and deplorable living conditions, that's why they did this, so they could kill them to gain their estate, which is really Bambi's. Anyway, so the defense said, listen, my guy here, Dicky Gags, all right, I get his name's funny. We all laughed at it when we saw it. Telling you, he called me. I said, get the fuck out of here. That's not your real name. It took a while to convince me, you know what I mean? He said, sure, he's a loud mouth braggart that nobody liked. I mean, sure, he's a. I don't even like him. He's an asshole. This fucking guy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Nobody likes him.

[James Petrigallo]

Nobody likes him. It's what he said. He's a. Sure, he's a loudmouth and an asshole that nobody liked, but that doesn't mean he killed his girlfriend's mother and stepfather.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Makes a good point.

[James Petrigallo]

He said that. You know that. It's crazy. He said, there's been a rush to judgment here. He said, the blood found at the scene doesn't match my clients or his girlfriend. So what the fuck? He. The defense attorney said, no one knows who know whose it is. And Richard is on trial because of his mouth. Because he ran his mouth at work, basically. So now Gagnon's own mother testifies against him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

That's crazy. That's wild. To get your mom to testify against me. Against you?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know. My mom goes to church now. If I fuck up, I got a feeling I'm gonna have to see her.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, my God. My mother would lie fucking with a smile on her face on the stand for me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He was at home.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. No, he was. Here's what I made him for food. She'd say, the fuck out of here. I could have killed someone on her front lawn. And she'd be like, he was inside the whole time. That's funny. So she testifies here. Ava May Offerman is her name. She said that her son called her about 5:30pm on April 12, the day of the murders, to tell her that Diane and Charles Parker Sr. Were killed, but nothing was stolen from their home. She said, quote, I thought it was in very poor taste. It angered me. I hung up. I don't know why that would be in poor taste.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The fact that he's talking about the.

[James Petrigallo]

Things like possessions, material things that didn't happen. I guess, like, it's more important. But nothing was stolen.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They're dead. Don't worry. Nobody stole nothing.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, I don't know what's going on. She also said that Richard asked her in April 2005 who was in charge. And she said she believed that meant to be who was in charge of the Parker's estate, which included a lot of money and land. Now, during cross examination, Offerman told the defense attorney her son could have meant who was in charge of the funeral arrangements. And she also testified that, to her knowledge, Richard did not own a gun. And I believe he's a felon, so he probably isn't allowed to own a gun. Yeah, he punched a police officer. That. Yeah, takes you out of the running for a gun. So she said, quote, he's a hothead, but give him 15 seconds and he knows what's right from wrong. He'll get all pissed off, but you let him cool down, he'll be fine.

[Jimmy Wisman]

As long as he counts. Shit, yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

As long as he actually takes 15 seconds.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Now, testimony about the blood is that they found blood on his shoe. And there you go, the cross examination on the blood guy. They asked this guy if he was aware that Richard Gagnon had returned to the Parker's home to retrieve clothing in the days after the deaths. And the blood guy said, why Would I know that? They give me a sample and I test it. I have no idea what the fuck anybody's doing before that. It also revealed that none of the blood found in the Parker's home matched Richard's. This guy also testified that fingerprints found at the crime scene were not compared to Richard's because he used to live at the home. And there was a couple of days before. And he was there a couple of days before the shooting at the latest. So we expect to find fingerprints of him on there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, he's been in the house. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And they don't run any of the prints too, because they have foreign blood already. Already they have blood they can't explain. What if there's prints they can't explain too? Then what happens?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, nightmare. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Then you're fucked. So they don't even bother testing at all. They go, I'm sure they're in there, but that's fine. Now a cellmate testifies, okay, from the J. Rubin Long Detention Center. And this guy testifies. His name is Robert Lee Mullins. He says that Richard originally denied killing the Parkers when he first got to jail. Mullen said, he told me he didn't do it. I believed him at first. It changed later on. This guy testifies that Richard told him things about the shootings and crime scene that only the killer would know. So this guy wrote a letter to alert the prosecutors about this. Mullen said he pressed Richard on the slayings. And Richard later said, quote, well, I did it. I went into a rage. I just went into a rage and I did it. Well, you want to know the truth? I did it. Mullen said that Gagnon was concerned about gunpowder residue on his hands and asked, because this was before the test came back and asked, do you think it can go through gloves? So he's saying he had gloves on during this. He also said a window was broken to make it look like a burglary. He said, yeah, we broke this window in the beginning in the kitchen there. Glass door to make it look like a burglary.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And, you know, do you think gunpowder residue can go through fucking gloves as his thing?

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a big fat no.

[James Petrigallo]

That's a. Probably not. I would say, yeah, those are some shit gloves. If you. If they do, those are not going to keep your hands warm at all. So now Richard testifies on his own behalf. He spends two hours on the witness stand one day explaining his actions. He rebutted the testimony from other witnesses that he was angry with the Parkers about Land and child custody bullshit. They ask him, what about crime scene info that you know, that only the killer could have known. Could have known. He said that he was discombobulated upon. That's the word he used to discombobulated upon learning of the Parker's deaths. He said it was such a mind blowing situation going on. Which isn't an answer to why do you know everything about the crime scene?

[Jimmy Wisman]

What do you think he meant when he said discombobulated? He didn't mean that, right?

[James Petrigallo]

Well, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Did he?

[James Petrigallo]

He said it. He said, it's such a mind blowing situation, it's kind of like getting the wind knocked out of you. My concern was Bambi.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So he said, he does mean that.

[James Petrigallo]

He said, I don't know how I knew all the intimate crime scene details. I was too confused to know where I got it from. Basically, I was too discombobulated to understand.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Somebody told me.

[James Petrigallo]

I guess they must have. Yeah, who knows? Then they said, what about the shoes? And he said he reentered the Parker's home on the evening of April 12, which it should have still been locked down. I don't even know if it would be released by then.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

To get Diane Parker's car keys and cellular phone for Bambi. She wanted her mom's stuff. He said that he stepped in blood on the floor, which was later found on his shoes. He said that he went to the bathroom to put the blinds down, like we said. He testifies to that, though now he's under oath, it's different. So he said, yeah, Bambi, who was in the courtroom during most of his testimony, left before he was done. She might have to go pick the kids up or something. We have no idea.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, she could have been a lot of things. She could. Overwhelmed, who knows?

[James Petrigallo]

Discombobulated. She's all discombobulated. The Discombobulation of Dickie Gagnon, this episode should be called. So Now Richard testifies that Bambi never told him to kill these people either. He said, well, did Bambi tell you? No. He told a deputy that he loved and was devoted to Bambi, but that she, quote, wasn't very popular with her family at the time of her death, of the deaths. Richard also testifies that when he asked his mother, who's in charge, he was referring to funeral arrangements, not who was in charge of the estate as well. Then after all this, they asked him a very direct fucking question.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Here we go.

[James Petrigallo]

Did you kill these fucking people or not? He said, I didn't kill anybody. Which is A. That's, you know, language wise, that's the right way to say it. Because if you're innocent, you want to get that info out as quick as possible. I didn't kill anybody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And not only did I not kill them, I didn't kill anybody.

[James Petrigallo]

Anybody. I was watching that Ted Bundy documentary, the one where it's like a multi parter, where they're talking about his recordings in jail and all that. And there's one point where he gets to Colorado when, before he escapes from Colorado the second time. And he is there interviewing him about all of these murders. And they're saying, you know, they're saying, you kidnapped this girl and they're saying, you killed people here. You're being charged in Colorado. They're also talking about Washington. And they're like, is any of this true? And he goes on about a three paragraph rant without saying, I didn't kill anybody. He's like, well, I mean, that's a vague question. It's a very large question. All those people. I mean, I don't even know what I'm being accused of at this point. But no, I mean, I am an innocent man of the. Blah, blah, blah, blah. He never says, I didn't fucking kill it. Holy shit, get me out of here. I escaped because they're saying I killed all these people and I didn't. And it's terrifying because I didn't fucking kill him. And they say they did. Doesn't say any of that. Then Gagnon looks to the jury and says, I just want you to know I didn't do this. I was an arrogant person. I was foolish. I said a lot of ugly things. I've never disrespected Diane and Charlie. And they said, what about your cellmate? And he said, I didn't say any of that to that guy. And I don't know shit about making it up. So the closing arguments. The prosecutor here said that, you know, he had information far superior to that of law enforcement. It's child custody. He said that Bambi and he had nothing and Diane and Charlie had everything, so. Everything. Defense attorney Bill Grammer told the jury, please look through the smoke and around the mirrors. He told the jury that the prosecution didn't deliver details of an extensive investigation that were promised. During opening arguments, he said, the puzzle piece doesn't fit. Okay, then you must acquit. Right? That's how it works. If it don't fit, you must acquit. So the jurors deliberate for about seven hours. So they're Talking about it. And they find him guilty on everything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

Guilty of everything. Blood on the shoe. Told people they deserved it. That's good enough, apparently. No gun. They have no murder weapon, Nothing like that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So sentencing comes around, and Diane's sister gets up there and she says she was just like my heart. She said I couldn't do anything without her. And the defense attorney says, please be okay to my guy here. We think this is a verdict based on passion, not based on evidence. Like, the jury's upset that two upstanding, nice people were murdered and they want to blame somebody, and this guy is the guy. Yeah, they're putting this guy out there, so they're blaming him. But this. He's not the right guy. Now, Richard says to the judge this. Now, number one thing the judge wants is accept responsibility, show remorse. That's what they're looking for.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petrigallo]

He says, I maintain my innocence. He said, I don't understand a lot of what went on here in trial. What are you talking about?

[Jimmy Wisman]

We did a.

[James Petrigallo]

He's discombobulated about trial procedures now. When is this guy not confused is what I'd like to know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We gave you your constitutional right.

[James Petrigallo]

What the fuck, does he have brain damage or something? Have you ever seen an episode of Law and Order? What the fuck are you talking about? I can't. Anybody nowadays, no one can say I don't know what the hell goes on in a trial. We've all seen it. In every TV show, we've all seen it. So he says, I don't understand a lot of what went on here. I'm at a loss. I don't understand. Okay, he doesn't understand a lot. And then he says, there's a. There's a killer still out there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, is there?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. He pulls. He doesn't know j there. So the judge says, well, that may be, but you, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison without parole.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How about it?

[James Petrigallo]

Life without. And the prosecutor afterwards said that the investigation is not over because blood was found at the scene that didn't match anyone connected to the family. So they said, there's still another defendant we're looking for. And Richard's defense lawyers say, yeah, we think that's the guy who did it. Is what you're. We're doing here, like, pretty sure. We're basically, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

When you find that person, you're going to release my guy and a bunch of money in the lawsuit.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, it's going to be fucking big time at this. But it's going to be Crazy. He's going to be fucking all sorts of dough here. So 2007 now this is right after that the Charlotte observer does a big giant article on Bambi. Big old article on Bambi. And it says in the time since her parents were fatally shot, Bennett says she seen her reputation suffer, you know, because she was accused of murder and all, right. And her boyfriend was convicted of it. Her son's taken away from her and her health beginning to fade. But that she's ready to fight the scrutiny that has engulfed her for two years. She said, I was portrayed as a monster to the public. It's sad that. Innocent until proven guilty, that's the saying. But it's not that way. People condemned me and tried to convict me from day one.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And it gets probably worse once your boyfriend is convicted. Yeah. With no motive whatsoever, you know. So she said the charges, once they were dropped, she's trying to return to some normalcy in her life. She said that she picks her two daughters up from school and clears weeds up each weekend from her parents grave sites. She goes and hangs out there. She said, how many, how many weeds grow from week to week in this grave site?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Probably two.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, two. A little plink, plink. A fucking dandelion or something.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sprigs.

[James Petrigallo]

She says she suffers mentally and physically though a lot. She says she hasn't spoken to either one of her school age or high school age sons for more than a year and a half as well, since she was arrested. Her sons won't talk to.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petrigallo]

Now I don't know if that is because their father says, your mom is. Might be a murderer and I'm not letting you talk to her. Maybe she said there are things that were taken from me that I can never get back. Yeah, six months, she said, I've lost two years. Police and prosecutors were doing their job. It's their job to thoroughly investigate anyone. That was their job and I would expect nothing less. But you know, she says, me, on the other hand, I'm didn't do anything. She compared. Then she likened her case to that of the Duke lacrosse team.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

We did a bonus episode on this. Bring you up to speed quick, if you don't know. The Duke lacrosse team one night had a big party at a big. At a frat house and they hired a few young ladies to dance for them and be strippers. And the whole thing got really out of control with them fighting with them and there was racial slurs thrown around. And at the end of the night, the ladies ended up leaving. And everybody was. Everybody was none the better for this experience. The guys were pissed. They were worse, matter of fact.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And then one of them said that they raped her. They basically essentially gang raped her and held her down in the bathroom and had a very intricate story, terrible story, where people were arrested for it and shit like that. And then it came out that none of it was true.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She lied about all of it.

[James Petrigallo]

She lied about everything. Not about the fighting out there, but lied about anything. Sexual assault wise was all made up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So several years later, she knifed somebody.

[James Petrigallo]

To death and then she ended up killing somebody too. So she was a little tad bit unstable, but that's who she's comparing herself to. They go on in the article to say the burden of proof is what played a role in the length of her legal battle. That's what the prosecutor said. Prosecutor says this quote. I think it's important to understand that there are two legal standards. Law enforcement is looking at probable cause for an arrest. Sure. Our standard to offer proof beyond a reasonable doubt in court. That's the highest standard of the law. He goes on to basically say, if law enforcement, if it's 51%, they think you did it, you're getting arrested. But we have to be much more sure than that to take it to court because there's that. So if you look to a lot of that is the way statistics work for crime reporting. If a police department makes an arrest for a case, it's technically the murder is cleared now. Oh, so they have the. All of them have the boards with red names or open cases, black names or closed cases. That changes a red name to a black name. If you make an arrest, you release the guy the next day, that name is still black. Doesn't go back to red. Okay, so arrests are great for police statistics. They can say we have a 70% homicide solve rate. Even if they let half of those people go that they arrested in a day, they can claim better stats that way. So that's a loop. Because we arrested somebody because you arrested somebody. So technically two. Two names were cleared on this, you know, so. So anyway, Bennett, though she still denies any role in the murders, she wouldn't discuss details of the events surrounding the incident. But she says she was at her Myrtle beach home on the night her parents were killed and didn't know about their deaths until after she took Richard to work the next day or that day and the bodies were found. She said, how can I wake up and find out about my mommy and daddy like everybody else? And Yet I go to jail for six months.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How old is she?

[James Petrigallo]

34. My mommy and daddy. That's a Southern thing, by the way, which. It's less. It's less creepy when women do it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is it?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. When I see a guy who's got a beard like you talking about my daddy, I'm like, listen, dude, give me a fucking break, bro.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know. I don't like the. I just don't like. I don't like the daddy. I don't like either of them because the mommy implies I can't take care of my.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, it implies you need your butt to be scrubbed by somebody. Yeah. Your ass is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Enjoy it, but I don't need it.

[James Petrigallo]

It's not necessary, really. So, yeah, she said. And they talked to Dick Gagnon here, and he said, I tried to help her and her parents get along. He's like, I didn't kill anybody. I just tried to help everybody get along. Next thing you know, we already fucking am here. So Bennett's lawyer says that she has passed two polygraph tests performed by an outside agency as well. So he's saying, stop accusing her of shit. She didn't do it. She passed polygraphs, which. They're independent ones, just like a police one. You can pretty much, you know, polygraph test can come out how you want it to come out. So. Depending on how they phrase the questions. But, yeah. She said that she regained guardianship over her two girls, but lost custody of her two boys, and she now suffers three ulcers and undergoes regular counseling as well. Her mental and physical state have been deteriorating, she said. She said she's considered moving from the Grand Strand where she has lived her entire life, because of the scrutiny she has faced. She said, I don't want to be here anymore. This is not my home anymore. You learn who cares about you and who doesn't. It's sad that it's that way, but I will not leave until I get my sons back. I will not give up on that. Apparently, after the killings, her sons were taken to Texas by their father. But the boy's father has since moved to Pennsylvania and left the two boys with Charlie Parker Jr. Wow. So now they're with neither of their parents. Yeah, they're just with their uncle here. So that's interesting. Their half uncle. So she says that she hasn't spoken to either of the boys since October 2005, when she was released from jail. She wants custody and worries that members of the Parker family, with whom she hasn't been close to for some time. Have turned the boys against her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So by now they're saying what a piece of shit I am. Which is a fair thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, yeah, your boyfriend's convicted of this and you're free. So he wouldn't just do that. He didn't get anything.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. All the whole family thinks the same thing. They all think that they did this shit together. Bambi got lucky and didn't have any evidence against her and he didn't turn on her. And that's just the way it is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So she says that family has never accepted me. Meaning stepdad's part of the family, which, I mean, they better when she was a teenager, so that'd be hard too. So 2018, she is trying to get the babies back is what she's doing. I need my babies. So they need their mommy. So boys have not been living with her forever and she's trying to get them back. Trying to rebuild shit here. Her son's father, Alexander Young, appeared in court to ask to be removed from consideration for custody. He doesn't want it. Okay. Can you believe that shit? Imagine going to court and going, take me off the list of people that want these kids, because I don't.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Wow. They said that it will likely be several months before a hearing is scheduled. They said they're in the discovery process. The bench trial could be six months away. The boys who are at this point 15 and 17, it's going to be a moot point pretty soon if you don't make a decision soon.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Especially one of them, I mean, the other one's got a couple more years.

[James Petrigallo]

But the ones that's done, one's gonna be married with three kids until they decide when they decide where the fuck he has to live. He's like, I already have a house with my wife. This is crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I've got a mortgage.

[James Petrigallo]

I got a mortgage right now. So that's how that's going on. And 2009 comes around now. Okay, 2009. And there's a little oh shit moment here. A DNA match comes in on the four blood drops.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And it has led to police to a second suspect in more than a four year fucking ordeal. This is the DNA belongs to a 24 year old man who's he named Bruce Antoine Hill.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What he do?

[James Petrigallo]

Well, they found out that his DNA matches because he's currently, at this moment in time when this is going on, serving a sentence at the Northeast Correctional Complex in Mountain City, Tennessee. Here he's serving a sentence for a home invasion in Tennessee. That sounds familiar here. Not only that, in that incident, he's charged with assault and battery with intent to kill, armed robbery and first degree burglary. Now, they are also investigating a home invasion at 301 Sun Colony Boulevard in Longs, where on October 17, 2006, they found a rubber glove and extracted DNA from it. And that is also matched to Bruce Antoine Hill.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is going on?

[James Petrigallo]

Let's see. The. They notified the state, notified Horry county detectives that the DNA from that homicide and DNA from the home invasion were a match. And then they had. They took his DNA sample when he was jailed, matched it up, and then matched it up to the Parker's murder as well. So they're going to charge him with two counts of murder and one count of first degree burglary. Because there's a blood match. I mean, right? Why the fuck you bleeding, dude? You know, like, what the hell you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Bleeding somebody else's house?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, I've never been in there. My blood is in very few houses. It really is. Especially strangers. Yeah, strangers. There's very few strangers with my blood in their house. Now he has convictions in South Carolina that include common law robbery, which I have no idea what that is. Common law robbery, stealing shit from your live in girlfriend that you've been together a long time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know, you stay in this house too long, unmarried, and you steal from it.

[James Petrigallo]

Then he stepped it up to strong arm robbery.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

With threats, drug possession, also domestic violence. Two different counts of that. A first offense, criminal domestic violence and a second offense, criminal domestic violence. So, yeah, he's a piece of shit. He's a charmer, this one boy. Yeah, he's only 24. He's already done all this. Wow. And he's 10 years younger than Richard, which are like, how does he know Richard? What's up with that? So he is from Tabor or Tabor City, North Carolina, and he's in the middle of serving a seven year prison sentence after he pleaded guilty to robbery and conspiracy to commit aggravated robbery. So they're saying how he will be tried once his sentence there is up, he'll be tried in South Carolina. Big question. How are this guy and Richard connected?

[Jimmy Wisman]

How do they know each other?

[James Petrigallo]

That's the big deal. Now at this point, the prosecutors refused to describe any association between Richard and Hill before the crime. But they say that Hill's charges will have no effect on Richard's conviction.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

They say we're saving all that for court. The prosecutors said Hill's charges and trial Won't impact shit. They asked Hill, okay, how do you know this guy? What'd you do? How did it happen? And Hill said, I don't fucking know that guy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Never seen him.

[James Petrigallo]

And they said the first. He said, the first time I saw that guy is when you showed me his picture. I don't fucking know that guy. Don't know him from Adam. Never met him before. Don't know him. So they're like, that's impossible. Two people don't kill someone together who don't know each other, basically.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good point.

[James Petrigallo]

So in Hill's trial here, later on they're going to talk about that he was. The way he got caught was they are late before he got pulled over at one point and Myrtle beach in April of 2005. Okay, which is when this all happened. He's in the area. He got pulled over at a traffic stop on Ocean Boulevard along with a man in the car named Khalil Moore, who is later identified as a former employee of Charlie Parker's mirror tech business. Oh, so that's the connection they have is this guy knows both of those guys.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right?

[James Petrigallo]

So that's. That's their connection here.

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[James Petrigallo]

Greenlight.Com wondery, they said that Moore is the only known person to link Bruce Hill to Richard Gagnon. So that's their trying to work on all that for court now. 2011, Hill is ordered to supply more DNA samples. They want more because they just need more area to test.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, it'll certainly fix things up if we've got a lot of it.

[James Petrigallo]

When you test stuff, it goes away. So you have to. Yeah, they have to put a supply. They have to put like liquids and different, like, shit in it. So these samples will be compared to these other blood samples to make sure it's him. The judge said. Ruled that they could take more blood. Said there's more than sufficient probable cause. Hill's attorney, Ron Hazard. That's what you want your attorney's name to be. Guy named Hazard, as in Dukes of. Objected to the samples being collected because samples already had been provided and the. Apparently the paperwork regarding those samples was lost, so they needed more samples. Oh, like you fucker. You can't even do keep in the filing cabinet. You're not going to stick my client again. And they said, oh yeah, we are. We're going to definitely give us more of your blood. We're going to take a whole bunch. The defense attorney said, they have not met the standards necessary. And the judge said, yes, they fucking have. Go ahead.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Plenty.

[James Petrigallo]

Stick them up. So the trial comes around the jury and this includes alternates. 12 men and 2 women, or 12 women and 2 men, sorry, including the two alternates was selected. One of the women was dismissed after she. After she told the judge she knew about the case, and so they replaced her with an alternate prosecution in the openings here. Okay, prosecutor said it's clear. It is two murders. It's clear. It was burglary. The only thing left is who did these things. That young man over there is the one who did these ghastly deeds. Ghastly. That sounds fucking downright demonic. He's doing ghastly is like, you know, oh, my God, he'd like, removed all their organs and hung them from the ceiling or something. So the defense here, he said that this guy doesn't know this couple and never been to their house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Couldn't have been him.

[James Petrigallo]

Don't know how his blood's there, but, you know, he told the jurors during opening statements that nothing of value was taken from the home, even though there were valuable items in the home. And he's like, my guy's a burglar. He knows how to steal.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He takes shit.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, he will take shit. He told the jurors that nothing of value is taken and evidence is expected. He said, I'm going to show you that Hill has never been to this home. Didn't know the Parkers and the papers were rummaged through inside the house as if someone was looking for paperwork, which. Why would a stranger look for paperwork?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Also good point.

[James Petrigallo]

Strangers look for cash and jewels. But I thought possibly someone went in the boot looking for cash because people might keep cash in their boots. You know what I mean? Just a thought. I don't know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, that it's a common thing for people put money in their shoe in the closet.

[James Petrigallo]

That's what I mean. So that's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They might have thought it's been done for years and years and years.

[James Petrigallo]

And, like, a tall boot might be harder to get in there. So, yeah, who knows? Now, the defense attorney said, the truth is always consistent in every respect. It's my hope that you have the courage to follow that oath no matter where the information leads you, because the truth is always consistent.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yes.

[James Petrigallo]

So don't be dishonest, please, is what.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He doesn't lie.

[James Petrigallo]

Yep. He said. And he also says that the prosecutor offered him a deal.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petrigallo]

With a sentence recommendation of 35 years in prison, even. Not even life without parole.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

And he said, my guy took a deal in another case. He'll take deals. He says, but not if he didn't do anything. He said he has always and still to this day rejects their offer.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

Rejects it. So the trial is going to focus on the blood drops. Obviously. That's really the only information they have. No one saw him there. The. One of the police officers said the blood that was here was out of place and it occurred in the same time frame is when these people were shot. The defense does not present any witnesses or evidence to the jury. They go, I don't think they made their case.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

Which is a thing. A lot of defense people will do this sometimes as, like a statement, like, well, they didn't make their case. I don't even have to present one.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

My case will be closing arguments.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Basically take my coat, flex and walk out of here.

[James Petrigallo]

I just. Do you think that's like there's a certain psychological thing to it where you'd go, yeah, I mean, well, if he's going to depend it all on that, then, you know, sure, I'm sure it's fine. You know, but something about that also, psychologically, if you're a juror and you saw one person or one side for a week, present all this Stuff and put witnesses up and question them and show evidence and introduce exhibits and all this shit. And the other side goes, I'm good. I don't know nothing. Doesn't that seem like it seems it's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Overly confident and it's very short sighted. As the, as a juror, I'm going that really. Yeah, that makes you weigh the evidence a little more. But as like a. If I was the defendant, I'd be like, say something, motherfucker.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, do something for me. Somebody, he's sitting back there going, we're going to show that they didn't even make their case. They didn't fucking present their case. I just think that's a. If there's, you can't do that. If there's blood evidence on your, if.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There'S DNA, you better, you better talk.

[James Petrigallo]

You better fucking explain that. You better bring an expert up there to say how that could be messed up. You better do something. If it's all circumstantial, you can go. All they proved was that, that my client knew these people or whatever, but they didn't prove he killed her. That's another story. But this is different. So in the clothing or in the closings here, the prosecutor said there's no question, no doubt, it was Bruce Hill's blood in that house. Bruce Hill was in that house at the time the Parkers were burglarized and killed. He wasn't the focus of the investigation at the time. We know we have a guy, we didn't know who he is. And that's why he kept. That's why they kept running the blood sample in the national database. He told the jurors it was unclear what caused Hill to bleed inside the Parker's home because we didn't see him for four years. So it's only. We could see wounds on him. But he said he was in a vehicle stop later on and that's when the man who works for the Parkers was in there. So they said it is Bruce Hill's blood that tries out the truth. It is the bodies of Charlie and Diane Parker that cries out for justice. So there you go. The defense said, hey, don't jump to conclusions. Come on, just based on DNA, don't jump to conclusions here. He said that you know about the case because the 11th hour connection of a former worker to this Richard Gagnon guy. This is crazy. What are we talking about here? He said no one else mentions him. There's no documentation, but suddenly he's a close personal friend of the family. Okay, it didn't come up till now. They're saying now that's the inn right there. But it's very logical that maybe that guy said, hey, these people, I know their house because I worked there and their house is on the same property as the fucking business. So I've seen they have nice shit in their house. We should rob them.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I walk past the house on my way to my job.

[James Petrigallo]

Yes, that's what I mean. So that would make sense that he might tell Hill that, look, if you're looking for a good place to rob, I know of a place case, it's rural, it's, you know, all this shit. So yeah, that's how, that's how that goes. He also, the defense attorney, tells the jurors that the blood samples taken from the Parker's home were not put into Horry county police evidence until seven days after the slayings. So he's saying that there's a chain of custody problem. Much like in the OJ trial, they made a very big deal of the fact that Vanator brought the. Brought OJ's shoes home with him for the night and then he then brought them to the station the next day. So seven days is a very long time to take to enter blood into heaven.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

The problem is it doesn't, no matter what, even if it sits out in the sun, if a fox licks it, it doesn't turn someone else's blood into your blood. That's the difference though, so. But it does look like it maybe is a sloppy investigation.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And what it also looks like is he could have taken that and gotten somebody else's. Gotten his blood, you know? You know what I mean?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If there's blood, if there's a sample of his somewhere, if it's not at the police station and entered in, he could have been somewhere searching for it.

[James Petrigallo]

That's totally. And this guy makes a great point, though. He says, look, they fucked up on the paperwork. We had to give them more samples. Then before that, he said it took seven days for them to enter the scene samples into the database. He says these samples were incorrectly catego cataloged as being from the scene. He goes, this is blood from somewhere else from another crime scene. And they said they have it mixed up. It's not. My guy was not there. This is fucking crazy. He also said to remember a medical examiner's testimony that no hair from an African American person was found on the Parkers during the autopsy. Because Bruce Hill is black.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And he's got long dreads and Shit. Oh, so they're like, they didn't find anything. Fuck yeah. Yeah. It's being ripped out of your head. I would assume so. And he said that the. Look at. He then pointed to the. His client and said, look at him. He's got long dreadlocks halfway down his back. He said he probably hasn't had a haircut since childhood, which is a funny line. He's. He said, look at him. I must take forever to grow that with them curly little hairs y'all got.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Look at how those things kink together like a sheep that ain't had been shorn in a while.

[James Petrigallo]

Jesus, look at it. You can just tell. He said, I don't know about you, he said, but I'm going to have a handful of hair if I'm fighting for my life.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

Because he said Diane had bruises, bruises all over, like she's been beaten. Why wouldn't she? Because he said these dreads go all the way down, halfway down his back, they're swinging all around. You would grab onto one of those, you'd at least have a dreadlock in your hand when the cops found you. But he said that I'm fighting for my life. He said, nothing like that found here. What's up with that? So this goes to the jury and two hours of deliberation go by and he is found guilty of two counts of murder and first degree burglary.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petrigallo]

Now I find it. To me, the weird part is to have both these guys convicted of the same crime and have literally never. Man, you've never put them in a room together.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, right.

[James Petrigallo]

Other than this room, which is like people who don't know each other generally don't commit enormous grand scale crimes together. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And they don't murder together because they don't know each other and they don't know to trust each other.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, the guy. What was it? Who's going to say that once he stopped as done killing them, he's not going to turn and kill you too?

[Jimmy Wisman]

And there's that too.

[James Petrigallo]

You don't know this person. It's not like it's your buddy or some shit. So the sentencing comes in. You, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole again. So they got two life without parole, then 30 years in prison for the burglary charge as well. And those sentence are. Sentences run concurrently. So life without. Essentially. Now, the prosecutor said this during his closing argument. And this is something he said later on too. The truth is a very stubborn thing. It is a good thing. The truth is a stubborn thing. Because sometimes it takes time for the truth. In this case, it took four years for the truth to break out of its shell. He said that he thanked all the DNA people. He said this case would not have been solved without the DNA technology in the national database and all that. He said it's rewarding to get the second part of the Parker case concluded. Both of those responsible have been held accountable.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Got him.

[James Petrigallo]

So a lot of people go, does this mean the other guy's innocent? No, that's the main question in town. They're like, what's going on? And the prosecutor said, no, no, no, no. Au contraire. The opposite. He said this conviction makes the case against Richard stronger.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petrigallo]

Because he had told a jail cellmate that another person was with him at the time of the murders and that that person left blood in the house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. So down at my beach house this weekend.

[James Petrigallo]

Peace out, Deuces, bitches. I'm out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

See you around, guys. I win.

[James Petrigallo]

He said, if anything, it supports the conviction. Oh, Richard Gagnon's lawyers have a different view of it, though. They say, we need a new trial here, motherfuckers, if that's going to be a part of the shit. But, yeah, he's asking for a new trial based on evidence linked to another man also convicted. His attorneys say there was too little physical evidence and prosecutors relied on the testimony of jailhouse snitches.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

Which we found out are very unreliable on this show.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, it depends on what they need.

[James Petrigallo]

That's the thing. They always get something for testifying. So if you're in jail and you want to get your shit lowered and you just hear somebody talking, you have. Or you want to make some shit up, you have no motivation not to.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, jailer, I got. I need somebody to talk to because that guy just said some shit that can help me.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Other than not wanting to be thought of as a snitch. But if you're looking to get out of jail, you don't give a fuck what those people think about you in there. So they said that, you know, obviously the blood was a big deal, but they said it was from the Keys. What the fuck? Then 2013 comes around. Okay, Robert, Bob Dudek here, Richard's appellate attorney, files a post conviction motion here for a new trial presenting a former inmate and preacher at the Murals Inlet. Murals Inlet Community Church named Robert Troy Taylor. Now, Robert Troy Taylor is a link between Richard Gagnon and the guy who. The cellmate who testified against him. Oh, he's the guy in the middle of that. Knows Both of them here. This tailor, Robert Troy Taylor, claimed that he met Mullins, the testifying cellmate, in the prison chapel of the Evans Correctional Institution and that Mullins told him that he had fabricated his testimony in Richard's hearing. Oh, Taylor and Richard were in a Bible study group in prison in 2012 and frequently played cards together. This is the guy who just came forward now. And Richard. During one such card session, Richard recounted how the guy that testified against him, his testimony played the whole role in his conviction. I mean, without that, all they have is a spot of blood on a shoe. That's easily explained. And so Taylor said he was able to piece together what happened. And, you know, from that. So it turns out here, Taylor, who, by the way, is also serving a life sentence in South Carolina, life without. So, yeah, at least he's got no motivations. Maybe a truth, better food or something. He said he was in the same jail as Mullins and that Mullins told him at least four times between 2006 and 2007 that he lied and that Richard was wrongfully in prison because of it. And he felt bad. That's why he was telling the story. Oh, he was, like, felt repentant. And he said he wanted to come forward. Taylor, this guy who comes forward, said he wanted to come forward with this info Sooner because it's 2013. He was told this in 2007, but he didn't want to be labeled a snitch. He said, okay, they want to be labeled a snitch. So that's. That's a big deal. Taylor said that he had put the whole thing out of his mind because he didn't know Richard at the time when Mullins was telling him that he made this whole thing up and sent a guy to prison. So this Richard was just this fictional. Not fictional, but theoretical guy, Right? I don't know this fucking guy. What do I care? Then he said he put the story completely out of his mind until 2012, when he met Richard at the Lee Correctional Institute and talked to him and figured out that this is the guy that this guy was fucking talking about based on what Richard was telling him. I'm in jail because this guy testified against me. I didn't say any of that shit. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, mullins. Oh, fuck. That's the guy. Oh. So he said. After a while, Taylor said he couldn't stand to see an innocent man stay in prison if he could do something about it. His conscience finally got to him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You don't belong here. I do But I can't have you doing what I'm doing. I did bad shit to be here.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, I deserve this shit. So. William Grammer, Gagnon's attorney, also said in a statement that he and other defense lawyers would have handled the cases very differently had they known about this new evidence. Like this would have helped out a lot, they ruled. A judge rules that Taylor's testimony, meaning this new guy, is new evidence and meets the criteria for a new trial. Oh, he said, that's huge evidence that if that was known about in the appeal, right. Then this would have been a totally different appeal, as his first appeal would have been completely different if we knew about this shit. So they said that actually meets the everything he said. Mr. Taylor's testimony was discovered after trial and could not have been discovered before trial in the exercise of due diligence because of the dates that Taylor was imprisoned with Mullins and Gagnon. So, yeah, it was impossible. He couldn't have been there for trial because he didn't even know Richard yet. So the court finds the testimony to be material because it squarely attacks the credibility of a major piece of evidence in the case of state or the state's case used against Richard, and because it's the only testimony of this type existing, it's not merely cumulative and impeaching. So he will get a new trial. Wow. Judge Steven John gives him a new trial here. They give credit to Gagnon's appellant attorney. They're like, man, nice job there. One of the attorneys said Bob dudak, who represented Mr. Gagnon in the Court of Appeals, did, in my opinion, a brilliant job of bringing evidence to light that did not come out in trial. And it was the type of evidence that made it clear that he was not the one that committed the crime. Now, the prosecutor said here that the standard for police to arrest someone is lower than that, and the jury should have. If he's innocent, the jury would find it. He's basically saying, these are the. We have these, you know, fail safes in our system of the police can arrest you, but then the jury, the prosecutor, needs more evidence to take you to court, and the jury needs even more than that to convict you, so it should be fine. He says his office isn't going to do anything that isn't on the up and up and doesn't plan to never will jerk people around just to jerk them around. We don't put people in prison just to put them in prison, he says. So Bambi says she hopes this hearing will bring out the truth about who killed her parents. She thought Richard did this the whole time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

Even though he still might. We don't know. So Bambi said it was like a nightmare. It's like you're dreaming and you're going, please let me wake up. I just couldn't believe what was happening. Something was really wrong. There are no words. It was horrible. So the convictions here in 2013, the. So new trial is granted, and the conviction is going to be vacated as well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

Now, February 2013, Richard with a retrial pending. Because they're going to try him again. They said. Yeah, they say that he can be released on $50,000 bond. They tell him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay. Pending the trial.

[James Petrigallo]

Yes. So they asked that the prosecutors and Gagnon's appeals attorney here. I guess they want him to. They agree on a person or law enforcement agency that Gagnon will check in with. So the prosecutor says if he makes bail, we got to figure out some way to. For him to check in.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. How are we going to keep track of him?

[James Petrigallo]

He said, I want someone to lay eyes on him. That's my concern. I don't want him just disappearing. So, yeah, when questioned here, they said that the case wouldn't be called for at least eight months, and it would be about three months if. Before he would decide if the case would move forward for the prosecution. So it's going to be a while here. They said that the judge told the prosecutor she wanted an update in April if Gagnon will be retried and when. If he is, and if Gagnon has not posted bond at that time, she will reduce his bail to a personal recognizance. Like, you don't start the retrial. We're not going to keep this guy locked up if you don't have anything, basically, which is nice. So the defense attorney had submitted two affidavits from people who offered to house Gagnon and help him obtain. Obtain employment if he's released on bond. Those people who live in a beach town in Horry county and Pennsylvania, but they're not identified. During the hearing, the Dudek, the appeals attorney, said, I've done this for 23 years. Richard Gagnon is one of only two clients I've thought were truly innocent.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

Wow. That says a lot about your.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So, yeah, you got a lot of faith in your.

[James Petrigallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A lot of people.

[James Petrigallo]

So basically, your job for all this time has been to try to get people out of jail who you thought were guilty. Yeah, that's a shit job. That sucks.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And putting a lot of faith in the people that put that person there.

[James Petrigallo]

Yes, absolutely. The whole judicial system, that's fucking crazy, though, to be like, yeah, two, Two. So you couldn't do that job if you only defended people you thought were innocent, because there'd be two. In 23 years, he'd have two clients. He'd make more money just working at Dairy Queen Till then.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every. Every 12 years, you have one guy that's innocent. That's, that's, that's nuts.

[James Petrigallo]

That's crazy, man. But this, this lawyer said that he's been jailed for eight years.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

He said, I really think that's a travesty of justice. Gagnon told the judge that he could adjust to being outside of prison again if given the opportunity. He said, in eight years, I've had no write ups. I've had no issues where I had to be restrained. My mind is sound. I'm just ready to please go home. Please get me the fuck out of here. This sucks. Diane's sister, though, Carolyn Chapman, who testified against him at the sentencing hearing, said that told the judge she's concerned that if released on bail, Richard's going to flee. She said, I know with everything in me, he's guilty. And then her brother, that Diane lady's brother, said that it would be difficult for authorities to keep track of Gagnon if he's allowed to go all the way to Pennsylvania. He said, we just think he should stay here at the beach until the new trial starts. Which sounds lovely.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It does, yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

That sounds like you don't hate him at all. Sounds like you really like him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Imagine if someone said to you, you got this bad thing coming up. I really just think he should stay at the beach until that happens. I'd really just. I'd love you to just stay at the beach till all this stressful shit flows over. So 2014, Hill, Antoine Bruce Hill here, he is going to appeal his conviction. And part of it is, did the circuit court air when it prohibited any mention of the prior conviction of Richard Gagnon? Because none of that shit was allowed, really. These cases were tried totally separately on totally different, like, theories of the crime, basically. So you couldn't try these people together. So the. He wasn't allowed to mention that another person's been convicted, which seems like a big point for the defense. Well, yeah, you think my client did it, but you all have already convicted a person my client's never met before. So how does that work?

[Jimmy Wisman]

They think somebody did this alone, and they've already done that. They've already Convicted the man he's serving life without.

[James Petrigallo]

So I'll show you the court docs where they talk about him being alone the whole time when he's in there. What the fuck? So the they say. The appellate contends that the circuit court erred in holding that evidence of Gagnon's convictions was irrelevant. Appellant argues that he should have been allowed to present testimony or evidence regarding Gagnon's involvement in and conviction of the same crimes. He contends that he was prejudiced because he was denied the opportunity to show the state's inability to connect him to Gagnon. The appeals court says they disagree. They said the admission of evidence is within the discretion of the trial court and will not be reversed absent a prejudicial abuse of discretion. So unless they let evidence in on purpose just to fuck him, you can't do it. It was all a judge's sound decision at the time, they said. The appellant misconstrued the circuit court's ruling and as a result failed to present any evidence of Gagnon's third party guilt. Appellate misconstrued the circuit court's ruling and as a result failed to present any evidence of Gagnon's third party guilt. Consequently, he's unable to show prejudice from the court. Suppression of Gagnon's convictions is what he says the ruling regarding the admissibility of the conviction was. I will allow you to examine the witnesses about whether somebody else is present, there's somebody else involved in the matter, what the evidence shows, but I will not allow you to bring up that some other person has been convicted because that would, in the court's estimation, lessen the jury's obligation and lessen, in their minds, their responsibility to treat this matter separately. Basically, he's saying that, you know, if they hear another person's been convicted, then they're going to go, well, I mean, someone's in jail for it. If it's not a slam dunk, fuck it, this guy can go. Someone's serving time anyway.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, but I mean, if I don't.

[James Petrigallo]

See a jury thinking of it like that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You got to. You got to say they were both there then.

[James Petrigallo]

That's the thing to me, if I'm the judge, I mean, I get that it's the legalities of it, of you can show that A and B are both guilty, even though A and B weren't in the same room. If you try A and B separately, and that's somehow legally standing, which it shouldn't be, you should have to show logic. You know, there's no logic in that decision whatsoever. Doesn't make any sense. So they said the court's ruling permitted evidence that Gagnon had been involved in the crimes, but not that it'd be he had been convicted of the crime. So they could have said there was another guy with blood on his shoe. Yeah, a guy who, I don't know, had blood on his shoe. But he can't say that he's been tried and convicted already. Right, but he. But I guess they said that he didn't. Didn't do. They didn't. They said the court didn't prevent the appellant from presenting the evidence that Gagnon committed the crimes or evidence that both law enforcement and the solicitor had investigated and arrested and tried Gagnon. You just couldn't say convicted. But they're saying that their legal team misconstrued the ruling to mean that you can't mention him at all, and they didn't.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, so it's their fault, not ours?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, he's saying it's your defense attorney that fucked this up, not us here. So that was 2000. That was 2013. 2014. He. Bruce Hill appeals his sentence again, but he is denied again on this count. So. Okay, that's tough. So. April 23, 2015, Richard's charges are finally dropped.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

Finally. His case is dismissed. April 23, 2015. Though it can be presented before a judge anytime in the future under a new docketing system in place. Yeah, they said. The prosecutor said he decided to dismiss the charges with the option to file them again on Richard. He said, I dismissed it without prejudice, and we can always bring it back if we need to. I met with the victim's family, and they understand we promised them we will keep working on it. We will always. We can always recharge if need be. From our standpoint, it's a bookkeeping thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We can always recharge.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Under a new docketing system, he said old cases can be taken before a judge who can dismiss them. If that happens, the cases are dead. But Richardson says his move prevents that, so he's blocking him from having it dismissed by a judge. He said if more evidence comes to light, the charges against him can be restored here, and that'll happen. And they said they can bring back charges against Bambi if they want.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

So Richardson explained that when the case is older, it can be brought before a judge to review and the judge can dismiss it. But he wasn't comfortable with the evidence at the moment to retry Richard, and he's trying to find More evidence.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

They, they, they said, quote, the prosecutor said he's worked with us, meaning Gagnon and his attorney. He's met with us several times. We've tried to get to the bottom of it. I'm not comfortable with the evidence to retry him. It's no fault of the defense or the state. Yeah, but he met with him several times that he keeps denying it. And they're like, well, if you're just going to keep denying it, then we can't work on anything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

He then said, certain stuff has got to come through. I don't like when a prosecutor uses the word stuff when talking about life without parole. Might as well say shit to me. And that's certain shit has got to come through. I trust that. More than stuff. Nothing, no word sounds more like an 11 year old is saying it than stuff. I don't know why.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Certain stuff.

[James Petrigallo]

Stuff, legally speaking, stuff, you know, from a statutory standpoint, stuff, yeah. Has got to come through and we don't control the timing of it. So I don't think it's a misrepresentation that it's going, that it's going to take it off the stove. We'll keep an eye on it. This metaphorical pot that's boiling, but it won't be on any of the burners right now. Yeah, he's got a whole metaphorical stove popping off now. He's, wow, you turn that up, I'll put it to a simmer for a bit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Put it on a warmer.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know. He said, I've got my files. We're not doing away with any of the evidence or anything like that. So under the current situation, neither man can get his charges expunged or have his file destroyed. And the prosecutor said, we wouldn't agree to anything like that. So they said the charges, to be clear, have not been expunged, but Richard is a free man with no requirement to report to a bail bondsman or anything like that. He can do whatever he wants because technically he's free. So they say he maintains a real low profile. And Richard's lawyer said his words to me were, I feel blessed. And maybe it's that simple for him. Richard in prison, found religion and got into it big time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All good for him.

[James Petrigallo]

So he could use it. This guy is, he needs it, you know what I mean? And yeah, so he said he's doing much better. He goes to church and all this shit and please leave him alone. Basically. 2017, Bruce Hill appeals again. He asks for a new attorney in his application. Oh, that's what he wants. But they said, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, your attorney's an idiot, but there's a lot of dumb attorneys. Your blood's on the floor. Fuck off.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, your blood's at the house, man.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know what to tell you about that shit. He is presently, or was it in the late 2010s, incarcerated at Broad River Correctional Institution in Columbia, South Carolina. Now 2021 as per report. Richard had settled in on the Carolina coast, and he got married and has children of his own now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petrigallo]

Richard fucking got out and started a family. Wow.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Reason to keep him out of trouble.

[James Petrigallo]

Holy shit. Now Bambi. Okay, Bambi's on Instagram, everybody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And she thinks that. She definitely thinks that she can communicate with ghosts.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Bambi's a ghost whisperer is what?

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's a party.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, yeah. On her Instagram, it says her name and then says wife, Mama, Nana. Paranormal investigator.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's a nana.

[James Petrigallo]

A nana. Which, I mean, Christ. She had kids and. Yeah, the kids are in their 30s, in the 50s. She was born in 71, so she's, you know, 53 years old at this point. Makes sense. 53. If it's 71. Yeah, 50. Yeah, 53. So, yeah. She has 934 followers, though, so not a ton of people are buying her shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's doing all right.

[James Petrigallo]

She has almost as many posts as followers, which is 891 posts. 934followers. That's not great. Oh, Bambi, that's a lot. Now, Diane is. And both she and Charlie are buried at the Hillcrest Cemetery in Conway. There. I think they're buried together. They are. I've seen their stone buried together. Now here's the part I'm glad we have time for, because I wanted to get to this. The other Richard Gagnon's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

That are murderers. This is crazy. There's like multiple guys. If your name is Richard Gagnon, you might kill somebody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Murder's gonna be. It's gonna touch your life.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know. It's because everybody picked on you, I guess. Your entire life. How does someone. How do you have dick and gag in your name and have no one pick on you? Like it gonna happen.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. It's impossible to sidestep that.

[James Petrigallo]

Now, there's a guy in Vermont, a murderer up there, who. I thought we talked about him. That's how the Gagnon name popped into my head. I think we talked about the Vermont guy. He killed people at a Co op thing. Anyway, there's another guy in Texas named Richard Gagnon, who In November of 2013, as all of this shit was going on and bubbling, if you search Richard Gagnon, it pops up everywhere for murder, all different murders. In November of 2013, he killed Brent Rider with a 12 gauge shotgun to the chest.

[Jimmy Wisman]

My Christ.

[James Petrigallo]

In the affidavit, Gagnon claimed that he shot this guy to protect himself and his mother. He's like, in his early 20s, he said when the guy started walking toward him, he closed his eyes and pulled the trigger. However, the sheriff's office obtained the arrest warrant, said that Gagnon did not see this guy ever hit his mother, only heard it from the bedroom. What difference does it make? Beatings, a beating. I don't care if I have to see it or not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a witness, right?

[James Petrigallo]

The affidavit stated that the woman didn't have any visible injuries other than a small abrasion under her right eye. You know, an injury.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He only punched her once in the face.

[James Petrigallo]

She didn't have any injuries except for that injury. Is her eye right? Dumb thing to say. You could say she had one injury. In addition, the affidavit stated that Ryder lived at the residence, and there was no previous history of Ryder assaulting this guy's mother. Conversely, there is a history of this guy Gagnon assaulting his mother. There's been multiple police interactions for him assaulting his mother, not this guy assaulting.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petrigallo]

So in the opening statement in court, the prosecutor told the jury that this Brett Ryder guy moved in with Gagnon's mother after Gagnon's father died. He said at some point, Deborah Gagnon told this writer guy that she did not want him doing drugs while her son Richard was at the house. Just don't smoke crack in the living room on my son's here, please.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Please don't do that.

[James Petrigallo]

The prosecutor told the jurors that an argument resulted and Richard Gagnon claimed he saw this man hit his mother and that's when Richard shot the guy. Martin. The prosecutor continued and said that Gagnon's story changed each time he talked with a different defender. Detective, he would completely have a new story to tell. Oh, I'll try this one out on you, he said. When Detective Ricky Childress got on the scene, Gagnon said he went in the room to tell Ryder to stop, and his mom said, shoot. So I shot. He continued and said. In a third statement, Gagnon said there was an argument and it was an accident. And then in a fourth statement, Gagnon once again changed his statement to something else.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, whichever one benefits me best. That's what happened.

[James Petrigallo]

What do you guys think? You've heard all four. What do you guys think is best? For me to say it's the best draft. What?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who?

[James Petrigallo]

Which one was most believable to you guys? Let's put it that way. He told the jury that they will see evidence that shows Gagnon shot Rider at close range through the upper chest with a 12 gauge. He said it's important to make sure the story lines up with the physical evidence. I don't think the statements made by Richard Gagnon are true. The defense attorney said that just because Richard Gagnon had done some bad stuff in the past doesn't mean he committed a crime in this particular instance. Yeah, but prior bad acts are literally how they. That's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's kind of part of it.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, kind of part of it. His defense attorney claimed it was self defense. He said he knew Ryder was a bad guy. He knew Ryder was dangerous, on drugs, and that day he was on drugs. Add all that together and you have a bad situation. He was in defense of his mother.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petrigallo]

One detective here said that he first met Richard Gagnon when he was brought in for a burglary charge in August of 2013. Separate. Totally separate thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

This cop said, he asked me if I could help him. I said I could help. I said I could. If he could help us on some cases. So this guy said that he knew Richard Gagnon didn't like Ryder when he moved in. The cop said he was concerned when this guy was around. All his mom did was drink and get drunk. He didn't like that. He thought he might be on parole and was not checking in with his officer. So he was saying that Ryder, it's your mom's business if she wants to drink with this guy, though. You're an adult. Move out of the house. So they said that it took time for Richard Gagnon to get a full ID on him. He said that he couldn't not get him until he knew for sure that he had a warrant. The cop said, meaning the guy. I guess Richard was finally able to get a pay stub. The cop said he ran that stuff and was able to confirm it was him. And I told Richard that we would get him. So Richard told the cop, this guy's on parole doing drugs at my fucking house, Right? And the cop said, cool, we'll arrest him. We'll come get him, okay? He said that he told the cops that he told Richard Gagnon that when Ryder came home for lunch for him and his mom to make an excuse to leave the house so they would not be there when detectives showed up to kick the door down and get him, because they'd have to. They'd have to put them on the ground, too. So this cop said, Gagnon texted me that him. Him and his mom. That his mom and Ryder were arguing at the time. We had a call for a felony theft, so I had to go there while on scene. Meaning another place. Yeah, while on scene, I got a call from Gagnon, but I couldn't understand him. A few minutes later, we got a radio call about a shooting in the Indian Springs area. And that's when I put the two and two together. So there was a cop that was going to come to the house and take this guy out in cuffs that day. Unless this guy was literally trying to murder his mother, there was no reason to shoot him. Really?

[Jimmy Wisman]

What the fuck is happening?

[James Petrigallo]

What is up with this name? It's his fucking name. This cop said that Richard Gagnon told him his mom was scared because Ryder claimed to have ties to the Aryan Brotherhood.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And that she was scared he would get someone to hurt them for turning him in.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, now you can't unless you're in prison.

[James Petrigallo]

Don't worry about it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, well, I don't know. You just killed an ab. You don't want to. You don't want to be a part of that in prison. You don't want to. Oh, boy.

[James Petrigallo]

That's the only place where those guys have fucking power is prison.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, but if you shot one and you're going to go to prison about it, you're in a lot of trouble.

[James Petrigallo]

You're in a lot of shit. No, absolutely. But he's saying that it's weird that he said he would get someone to hurt him. Where from prison or when he gets out, and then he goes back. That's what it have to be. So they said that the lawyer asked the cop if it was true that he told Richard Gagnon that Ryder would be in jail by the next day and he would be gone for good. And the cop said, yes, I absolutely told him that. I'll make sure he never comes back there again. What the fuck? So the cop agreed that the plan did evolve over time for how they were going to get him. Then the cop recalled the phone call and told Brown, the lawyer, that he was not sure that Richard Gagnon's. What the call was about, because the call was distorted. Deborah Gagnon had told. Had told the judge or. Yeah, the judge. That her son began using drugs mainly after his father died from cancer. Yeah. She said she recalled meeting Ryder, the dead guy, in August of 2000, 2013. And she said they took a trip to Houston and met some friends. Deborah said, it seems suspicious, but when I got back to Livingston, I found out. We went to Houston to a bar for a drug buy. He took her for, like an interstate drug buy, but didn't let her know that that's what they were doing. Deborah said she was strongly against drugs and felt ashamed that she had done drugs with Ryder. One time I felt ashamed that I.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I brought shame on myself.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, I brought shame upon my home that one time. One time you really. Once he did it. Deborah also said that after Ryder was kicked out of where he was staying, she allowed him to come stay with her. She said it was myself, him, my brother and my son living there. Interesting crew. Deborah said she believed Richard Gagnon just wanted her to be happy and that she didn't know if there was any reason for her son to not like Ryder. So she's saying, not like he beat me all the time and my son had had it. Deborah said that the beginning, she was happy. She also said Richard and Ryder were good to each other. She said the things we did together as a group was go swimming, but things with them were drug use. Ryder started seeking a relationship with Richard because he knew Richard would be able to get him drugs. So Deborah told the court that Richard was interested. This is the best line. Told the court that Richard was interested in meth and synthetic marijuana. Interested in it. It's got a passing fancy, a hobby.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Tell me everything you know about these.

[James Petrigallo]

Interested in it is very funny. You're interested in like, you know, 18th century art or fishing or something like that. It was a weird thing to be interested in.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Or the evolution of the C10, because I want to buy one, but yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Whatever the fuck it is. So Deborah said that the relationship between her son and Ryder turned sour once Ryder started using drugs on a regular basis. So they asked Deborah about the purchase of a shotgun. And she said, I bought it sometime in October. So she bought the shotgun. She said she it was a 12 gauge, but she doesn't remember if it was a pump. She said, bj, that's Ryder. The victim talked me into buying the gun. He said our home was at risk of the Aryan Brotherhood and we could be shot up at any time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're gonna need a 12 gauge around here.

[James Petrigallo]

We're gonna need a 12 gauge. So he basically forced her to buy his murder weapon.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yep.

[James Petrigallo]

That he's killed with.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Please buy me something that will kill me.

[James Petrigallo]

Jesus. Deborah said she bought the gun in her name with her money because Richard wasn't supposed to have a gun because he was on deferred adjudication.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petrigallo]

Jesus Christ. Deborah continued that she never saw Richard with the gun in an argument and that. Yeah, that asked Deborah to go through November 6th in her head, the murder day. She said, I went to work early that day. I left early because I was sick. Richard called me and told me Ryder had a blue warrant and was considering and was considered armed and dangerous. He asked me not to come home. She said she got home anyway at about 3pm that day. She didn't listen. She said that when she got home, Ryder was in the driveway with his boss from work. And Deborah said when I got out of the car, he tried to argue with me. I said I was sick and needed to lay down. I went inside and he followed me. He started to argue with me in the bedroom and he threw an ashtray at me. Threw an ashtray at me. Which. Is that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that where the eye injury came from?

[James Petrigallo]

I probably. I don't know. It shouldn't say it hit her, but. Yeah, I must have said. She. He threw an ashtray at me. He eventually settled down and I took a shower. She said that her other son came over to get a table and after he left, the argument continued. She said he came outside and started yelling at me and said he was angry the relationship was over. He kept getting more and more angry and picked up a radio to hit me, but he didn't. He'll just pick up anything and use it as a weapon. A radio is a terrible weapon, but he's going to use hard, near me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Plastic, metal, I don't care.

[James Petrigallo]

Hitting her with a fucking computer mouse over and over again after. But he didn't hit me. After he put it down. I took it and went inside with it to put it up. He came inside and got in my face, like nose to nose. He gets really close to my face and starts talking ugly. He started talking about my dead husband and how would I feel having my brother executed in my bed.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petrigallo]

I told him that he has to go. He's threatening to kill her family. No more talking or arguing was going to change that and that he had to go immediately. Deborah said he got angry and started kicking boxes of stuff across the room. I stood up and said he wasn't going to intimidate him or Me, I told him I was going to call the cops. Then I thought twice and said, I'm just going to leave. He grabbed my hand and started hitting me with his other hand. Everything happened really fast. I don't know which hand, I don't know what he had in his hand. She said she couldn't remember whether he was hitting her with an open hand, an open hand or a fist. She said, next I could hear my son say, stop hitting my mom. He yelled it loudly. And that she told the court here that she probably left that out of her statement to begin with because she was shocked and traumatized. But now she's saying something that's very helpful to her son in a murder beef. She's never said that happen before, but at trial she's like, stop. He just wanted the guy to stop hitting his mom. Anyway, he's convicted of that killing, so he's not self defense, because he definitely did it, so. And he's got all sorts of other problems. So that's what I'm saying.

[Jimmy Wisman]

With the AB in prison, probably, I.

[James Petrigallo]

Wouldn'T imagine he couldn't be. Yeah, he probably is. So if nothing else, just for a stupid name, right? So there you go, everybody. That is the tale of two Richard Gagnon's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Had to squeeze that in at the end because that fucker was haunting me. Every time I was looking shit up about the other, I'm like, which one is this? Because it's 2013, things are all happening at once. Our exonerated Richard Gagnon, by the way, they're talking about. I don't know if it ever got resolved, but they were talking about how he would be compensated from the state. Oh, because he was held because he wants to basically sue for wrongful conviction.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

They were saying we could refile the charges at any time. That's to hold off from him being able to sue.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yes. A lot of it all, it was just a random guy that killed people. Huh?

[James Petrigallo]

Random guy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He was attached by the. By the business, but it's still a random guy that just did a random thing.

[James Petrigallo]

Random guy never knew anybody, never knew them. All he probably heard was from that one guy. And they never charged the other guy too. So I don't even know if this is true, but they probably heard from that one guy. I work at this place, they have shit in their house. They have. They make good money. I bet they have stuff to steal, that's all. And in the end, it's only one guy. It's Bruce Antoine Hill. I feel bad For Bambi, honestly, in the end of all this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Because life is fucked, dude.

[James Petrigallo]

Sure, her fucking mom and her stepdad died and she got blamed for it. A lot of people think she was still involved in it. Even though Gagnon even has been cleared, a lot of people still blame her for this shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And now she thinks she can talk to ghosts.

[James Petrigallo]

And it's driven her so fucking crazy that she's trying to talk to ghosts on Instagram. That's. Christ, that's how far Bennett. And now it's something else, too. She's got a different. What the fuck is. I'll find it. But it's Bennett. Something else now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Don't go looking. Just leave her alone.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, no, don't leave her alone. She's. She's been through enough. But, you know, like I said, her level of wacky. If I talk to ghosts, fine, Great. You know what? What you've been through, if that makes you feel better, terrific. You've been through a lot. And Richard, too. Turns out he might be a dick and everything back in the day, but I don't think he had anything to fucking do with this. He didn't have shit to do with it. He's just some poor bastard who went to jail for 10 fucking years for nothing. Yeah, that is shitty, dude. That's so bad. That's so fucked. So there you go, everyone. A major plot twist to this story. And, God, some of these articles, too, are just. Just vicious. Yeah, to Richard and Bambi, like, these horrible people, and she's an ungrateful twat. And, like, it was like, oh, my God, people were fucking livid. So if you like that story, you should tell everyone about it. You can do that very easily. First of all, tell people you know, tell your friends, post on social media, do shit like that. That's a good way to do it. And if you still want to help us out even more, head over to wherever you're listening, whatever app you're listening on this. There's pretty much points to. You can review for all of them. Yeah, give us five stars. Say something nice about the show. Let's say you've listened for 500 episodes. That's a lot of time. And we've put in thousands of hours of research and everything else for it. Take 30 seconds, drop a fucking. These guys are funny. And five stars. That would be terrific. Really would help us out a lot, honestly. So it's a good thing to do. Do that also. You can follow us on social media. We are at small town Murder on Instagram. We are rderdersmall on Twitter and MallTownPod on Facebook. Find us there and get all the updates on everything you definitely want to go to. Shut upandgivememurder.com My friends, I will tell you that. Shut up and give me murder.com. you will get all the merchandise that you could possibly want. Enough merchandise to choke an elephant. And tickets for live shows. Live shows throughout the rest of the year. Here we have Austin and Phoenix. Phoenix has been sold out since the first day they went on sale. Thank you, Phoenix, for that. Austin. Is there any tickets left in Austin, do you remember?

[Jimmy Wisman]

A few.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, I think there's a few left in there. So Austin, get your tickets for that. And then our last two shows of the year after that will be in New York and Boston. And there's still a few tickets left for those. So get your tickets now. And also get your tickets for most of all, October 30th. It's a virtual live show, baby. And if you've never been to a virtual live show, if you've never attended one, first of all, you attended at your home, so that's nice. But if you've never been to one, it is exactly like a live show.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It is.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. We have the table set up. We have the screen with the pictures. It's the exact same experience you're going to get at a live show, except we're going to be wearing costumes, which is interesting and fun. And they're really funny, too. It's a duo, of course. And then the other difference is you don't have to go anywhere. You can sit in your damn house. And it's available for two weeks afterwards, too, so you can buy it, watch it that night. You can watch it 10 more times. You can go, I don't feel like watching it till next week. And you can watch it then. You can do any, anything you want with it for two weeks. So get that. Shut up and give me murder.com Patreon you want to get as well. Oh, yeah, we throw down hard on Patreon. If you fucking like the shows, you're going to love Patreon. It is anybody $5 a month or above, you are going to get, first of all, immediately hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before. So that'll give you some shit to listen to. And then there's people who say, I run out of stuff, I run out of stuff. Well, there you go, a whole new thing. And then you get new ones every other week. One crime in Sports one small town murder. We give it all to you, baby. You enjoy it. Take it in good health. So this week what you're going to get for crime and sports, we are going to talk about Vince McMahon documentary. Almost forgot there. Vince McMahon. The Vince McMahon documentary we're going to talk about. And there's some very specific things in there. Won't be a lot about wrestling at all. Don't worry if you're not a sports fan. Be a lot about and shit fucking Vince and how he is not good at denying things. We'll put it that way. He's terrible at it. Just the worst. So check that out then for small town murder Part two of Ted Bundy's 1976 psychological assessment to find out if he's a violent person.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is he?

[James Petrigallo]

Gee, who knows? We don't know yet. How's it going to come out, guys? I wonder. But there's some more pictures and shit. Let's see what Ted thinks of a bunny rabbit skipping through a field. Let's see. See what dark spin he can put on that shit. So check all of that out and [e-mail] Crime in sports and you get a shout out at the end of the show, which happens right goddamn now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful fucking people in the world who get awesome Patreon content every other week. Hit me with them right now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This week's executive producer, Jordan Bennett and Gary Howard. Thank you both.

[James Petrigallo]

Hey, thank you, Jordan.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We appreciate are the best. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, Cody Le, Stephen Fitzsimmons. I think it's just Steve Fitzsimmons. Pia P T K. I'm not sure what that stands for. I'm sure it's an acronym for something. Kelsey Insaner. That right? It's got to be insane.

[James Petrigallo]

I'm insaner than you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Kelsey is insaner.

[James Petrigallo]

No, I'm insaner.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't believe you. She said so. She got a birth certificate for it. Crystal Courtney Hoffman. Lena. Lena. Lena. Maybe Mills. Jeff Adamski. Adamski. Paula Reynolds. Linda would know. Last name. Lacy Wells. Brandon Lyons. Amanda Lebrecht. Yeah. William with no last name. Eric Olson. Ada Sapko. Stephen Perrell. Aaron Jensen. Britt with no last name. Renee with no last name. Elizabeth Aquino. Cat with no last name. Richard Gang. Gagnon. Gagnon. Know. Gagging on.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Gwendolyn Name always me up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's so brutal.

[James Petrigallo]

As comedians we just want to say gagging on it and that's not how we're.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And his name is Richard it's probably not his real name.

[James Petrigallo]

Doubt it's Dick gag on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, I'm sure it's not that. Gwendolyn Chambers. Chelsea Headley Hedley. Lauren Thorpe. Brian Stone Burner Rachel Kibay, Donna Stray. Stray. Stray Pro stre. Veronica Mendoza, Amber with no last name. Boo. Men. Megan. Megan I Icarina I. Carina I Caramba. I Caramba. Mary with no last name. Linda Dupois. Duplic Lauren with no last name. Amanda with no last name. Jamie Thomas. Probably it might be Tomes. Alexandra Awada. Bethany Morantos. Courtney Acevedo, Sphinx with no last name. Russell Moore Alluvion Mn. I think that's Minnesota. Jacob Berlin, Carrie with no last name. Dorothy Phillips. Michelle Jarvis, Ash F. Artsy Blue eyes. Jeffrey Scott DeGroat, Matthew Howard, Sarah Saunders, Lucky Olsen. Toby with no last name. Kristen Larson, Leah G. Sean Coltrane, Abby Shaw. Laby Shout Shabalo. Shabalobo.

[James Petrigallo]

Not gonna work here anymore, Shiba.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Not gonna work here. Victor Cole, a. T.J. askren. Liz with no last name. Becca Boland, Joey Reddinger. Radiger. Radiger. Tara Brock, Jolene Willie Wiley. Maybe Wild perhaps Eli with no last name. Wheezy Lamb, Laura. Laura Moore, Pamela Marsh, Danielle Coker Corcoran, Michelle Wilson, Leslie with no last name. Tasha Arthur, Anthony Nielsen, Carrie Mullins and Fenster Mocker. Lori, Lori Sheldstad, Shelstad, Riley Filner, Aaron Thornton. Bad taste. I know that one. Jill Perry, Don D. Aerosmith guitarist Joe.

[James Petrigallo]

Perry's giving us money now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jill Perry. His wife or daughter, possibly.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Good.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jenny. Jenny.

[James Petrigallo]

Give me some of that. Janie's got a gun Money. Let's go.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll go crazy. Constance, Ellen, Carmen, R. Snack Rusnak. Rue Snack, Josh Chastain, Lauren Davies, Ashley Gaps. It's probably Jerome. Sophie, Sophia Smith, Janelle R. Douglas Heckert, Clara alley. Perhaps Drew McCarson. Perhaps Big Jer day today. Hey.

[James Petrigallo]

Sue Spreada.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Erica with no last name. Susan Walker, Archna Arachna. Renee Dominguez. Rachel with no last name. Tyler Espinoza, Michael Watts, Dennis Falk, Dane Thompson, Stephanie Tools. Lyra Smith, Cassandra Kaufman Rapini. Katie Rust, Man Roost Man Taylor with no last name. Leia. This person's real name is Leia? I likely named after.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Somebody has a fan, right? Someone's dad was a. Yeah, at the theater.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Seth Shaken Saff. Shaken Saf. Chicanan or Bishop. One of those two people loves Princess Leia. Tyler Baxie, Megan Bell Namowski hot vapor. Melanie McGarva, Kevin Ives, Adam Smiley, Jeffrey Pope, Amanda Kunkle, Kunkle Kunkle. Probably Vanessa Shadow. Shadow. Perhaps Kayla Sasser. Kara and Jeff. Full metal lack 15. Metal lack. I don't know. I don't know what we're doing there. I don't know what the whole point of that is.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know where we're at right now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All right. Julie Putney. Heather White. Wine. Oh, Heather Wine. Christina San Filippo. No name. Oh, no name. No first or last name at all.

[James Petrigallo]

James.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Not even first. Kelly would know last name though. Liz would know last name. Mandy Amar. Amendinger. Amendinger. Amanda Armendinger. That's it. Elvira. Elvira Irwin. Ryan Mantle. Hanzo Beefton. Probably not. Kevin Holt Hozier. Like the singer that we. We used to know them. Taylor Christensen. Chelsea Slack. Brandon with no last name. Joseph Jarrell. Christopher Mount Castle. Andrea Ranka. Jarvis Wrinkle. Okay. Addison Teague. You. That's who it is. Kevin Colfer. Ramona Algerian. You? Algerian. Jessica. You. Stephen Clark. Or Cook, rather you. Erica Pinella. Jesse Bruner. And Crystal. She's not a stripper. Although there's nothing wrong with that. Thank you all so much and all of our patrons. You guys are the best.

[James Petrigallo]

Thank you so much, everybody. You magnificent, wonderful sons of bitches. We love you so much. Thank you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jordan Bennett and Simon's anniversary. They've been married for 20 years. That's what you want.

[James Petrigallo]

Happy anniversary.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm a piece of shit. Sorry about that, Jordan.

[James Petrigallo]

Happy, happy anniversary, you two. They come from different continents and they're still together and they love it. They're a fun couple. We like them a lot. So happy, happy, happy. To Simon and Jordan. There you go. Thank you so much everybody. If you want to follow us, head over to shut up and give me murder dot com. Drop down. Menus will lead you anywhere you need to be and until next week, it's been our pleasure. If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Jimmy Wisman]

In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand lies a tiny volcanic island. It's a little known British territory called Pitcairn and it harbored a deep dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on pit. Once they reach the age of 10, that would still average. It just happens to all of them. I'm journalist Luke Jones and for almost two years I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn.

[James Petrigallo]

When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with.

[Jimmy Wisman]

In the Pitcairn Trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wandery. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.