← Small Town Murder
Small Town Murder
#561 - Losing Streak Lois - Blooming Prairie, Minnesota
02:54:07
This week, in Blooming Prairie, Minnesota, a beloved local is found, brutally murdered, and his wife is missing. Detectives quickly realize she isn't a victim, and start a manhunt for the seemingly mild mannered Grandma. But she is anything but mild...
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- [00:02]
James Petregallo
Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you about noom. Has NOOM helped you? I believe it has.
- [00:08]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, it's got an app. You can do tracking. It's terrific.
- [00:11]
James Petregallo
It does. And NOOM builds personal plans that can meet individual needs. That's the thing. Takes into account any dietary restrictions, medical issues, other personal needs. That helps build a plan that works for you. And yes, so you've. I know that you've had your own personalized program here that you've been working on.
- [00:29]
Jimmy Whisman
And weight loss, this is weight loss results that last. They stick around because you get yourself into a lifestyle change. That's what matters.
- [00:39]
James Petregallo
That's mainly. You can't just say, I'm going to cut that out for a month and then go back. That's not what it is.
- [00:43]
Jimmy Whisman
You don't.
- [00:44]
James Petregallo
So I'm glad it's helping you. That's great. And it really does. I like the psychology and biology based approach here. NOOM weight uses psychology. That's why they say losing weight starts with your brain, but it also takes into account your unique biological factors. Jimmy. All of. All of your all different multitude flora and fauna that goes on inside of you there. Stay focused on what's important to you with noom's psychology and biology based approach. Sign up for your trial today at Noom.com, noom.com n o o m.com here. Based on 3.5 year study of actively engaged Noom users with minimum starting BMI of 25. Individual results may vary. Visit our website for more information. Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Shutterfly. If you're like us, you take a lot of pictures because you have a camera right in your hand all the time. How would you not take a lot of pictures? And we're taking all these pictures more than we've ever taken in the history of the world.
- [01:47]
Jimmy Whisman
What do you do with them?
- [01:48]
James Petregallo
That's the thing. You used to get a solid picture and then you look through them and you could enjoy them. Now they're like back on your camera roll. You can't even find them. You don't want that. That's why the cool thing you need to do and what I did, and I think it's pretty cool, is create a Shutterfly photo book. Oh, what I did. And you're gonna enjoy this, Jimmy. Cause I haven't showed this to you yet, but took all of our pictures from being on tour this year. All live show pictures, us backstage us on doing all that stuff and like some of the just the venues and things and made a little photo book out of that. Also. They have free 24 hour designer service as well. With their 24 hour designer service, a professional designer is going to lay out the book for you for free in just a day. Make something that means something with Shutterfly. Enjoy. 40% off orders over $29 with promo code Small town C site for promotional details.
- [02:40]
Jimmy Whisman
And now back to the show.
- [02:43]
James Petregallo
This week in blooming Prairie, Minnesota, a beloved local man is found dead, leading to a nationwide hunt for who police are calling the killer Grandma. But her path of murder and cruelty doesn't end there. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.
- [03:21]
Jimmy Whisman
I'm Jimmy Whisman.
- [03:23]
James Petregallo
Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely crazy, insane edition of Small Town Murder. If you listen to the intro, you went killer grandma. Yeah, it's gonna be a weird one, man. It's a lot of, there's a lot of crazy stuff there. Before we get to that though, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com Tickets are for sale for 2025. We're very excited. First up, Pittsburgh.
- [03:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Get in there or around or nearby.
- [03:49]
James Petregallo
Get your tickets.
- [03:50]
Jimmy Whisman
Let's go.
- [03:51]
James Petregallo
February 7th, we are in Pittsbur. Cannot wait. So get in there. We enjoy Pittsburgh a lot. So please sell it out so we can go back to Pittsburgh at another time because we like to come back because we like it there and then Columbus the next night. Also get your tickets. Right now you are first up. So we can't wait for that. Shutupandgivemerder.com you also should obviously listen to our other two shows, Crime and sports and you'd stupid opinions which are goddamn hilarious and we think you'll enjoy them. You don't have to like sports. You can just, it's fun. And then you also, if you've got enough of this, you need more. We have got Patreon for you. Give you all the bonus episodes you could want here. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus episodes. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get not only an absolutely enormous back catalog of hundreds of bonus episodes immediately upon subscription, but new ones every other week. One crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder and you get, you get it all of it. That's Right. This week we're going to talk about for crime and sports. And you don't really have to care about sports for this. We're going to talk about Travis Rudolph who is a recent NFL player in 2017, 18 and just finished up a murder trial as well. So we'll get into all of that. And then for small town murder, we're going to do part two of the West Memphis Three and we'll find out how the hell we even ended up where we ended up. How did they even need a documentary team to come on down there and check all that out? We'll talk all about it and more. Patreon.com and not only that, you get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy will mispronounce your name horribly, probably. But he wants to get it right. That's the important part. So that said, I think it's time for the disclaimer. It's a comedy show, everybody.
- [05:34]
Jimmy Whisman
It is.
- [05:35]
James Petregallo
This is a comedy show. Everything is true. That's the sad and sick part, is that unfortunately none of this is made up for any kind of comedic effect or to make it more entertaining or interesting or anything like that. You don't have to. These stories are absolutely insane. And you might say, well, how the hell do you make true crime and comedy go together? I think it's pretty easy actually. To me it makes it more digestible. It's a little easier to take than somebody and then her head was removed from her body. That's a little creepy to me. And also there's another way you do it, and this is what we do here, is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims families.
- [06:11]
Jimmy Whisman
Why, James?
- [06:12]
James Petregallo
Because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags. See how that works? It's super easy to do there. So if you think that that sounds like a good time to you and you know you want to hear a crazy story, this is for you. If you think that true crime and comedy should never ever go together, you might not like the show. But no complaining later because we warned you. That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody. Let's all clear the lungs. What do you say here, arms to the sky and let's all shout, Shut up. Give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.
- [06:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Here we go.
- [06:48]
James Petregallo
Let's go on a trip, shall we? We're going to Minnesota.
- [06:52]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, it's a lovely place.
- [06:53]
James Petregallo
We like Minnesota a lot. We really do. This is Blooming Prairie, Minnesota, where we've never done A show out in the prairie there. We mainly stick to Minneapolis, but hey, it's all right. This is in southern Minnesota. It's about an hour and 20 minutes to Minneapolis and also an hour 20 minutes to our last Minnesota episode, which was in Woodbury, Minnesota. That was episode 516, the Office Stalker. I remember that was freaking. It was freaky weird story there. This is freaky weird. This is in Steel County. Steel with an e on the end of it there. Steel county next to it. It's also a little bit of this town edges over into Dodge county as well. So a couple of counties. Area code 507. The motto here, this is you are really, really, really optimistic motto. Yeah, a great place to spend the next hundred years. Wow. I mean, shit, if you got it in, you sure hundred years. Well, you're going to be there for 100 years apparently if you move there. That's a very optimistic motto. History of this town, 1868, it started. They took the name of the surrounding Blooming Prairie Township and they were like, let's just knock the township off. Very creative people, very creative. Now, before prohibition came into effect here, Blooming Prairie's presence near the intersection of all these counties made it a big time place to stop and buy alcohol. Oh, yeah. In 1917, Steel county was the only one of the four around it, Mower, Freeborn, Dodge and Steel to be to have alcohol for sale.
- [08:37]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [08:37]
James Petregallo
So you could have both own and consume alcohol, but you could also sell it there too. So that was a big deal. So during the Prohibition act, several tunnels were dug under the businesses on Main Street. They tunneled under Main street for the purpose of making moonshine and being able to move it back and forth without being seen on the surface. Which is pretty goddamn funny because you picture that like in Chicago, there's things in New York, it's, oh, this is an old place to run. You know, they snuck the liquor in. You don't think of it in Blooming Prairie, Minnesota of like, let's dig a hole under Main street so we can get the rum out. Reviews of this town here, there are only three reviews and they're all five stars, which is crazy. We've never seen that before. So people seem to really like it here. Let's find out. Five stars. I really like Blooming Prairie because all the people are kind and there's a very strong sense of community. Everyone looks out for one another. It is a small town, but they have everything you need.
- [09:39]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay.
- [09:40]
James Petregallo
Everything. There's not a lot of people for 100 years. Evidently all you're going to need for the next hundred years, everybody, five stars. I like living here. I know everyone and everyone knows me. All right? It is a super friendly town where if something is happening then everyone will find out fast. Gossip, in other words. That's what that says to me. And then five stars. Amazing little town with lots to offer. There's a park, a small pool, smaller class sizes, which means more one on one time with your children. There's even a small gym, which is helpful.
- [10:17]
Jimmy Whisman
To get more kids.
- [10:18]
James Petregallo
I don't know what there's I guess the school. There's a park, a small pool, smaller class, I guess. I guess so. I guess the teacher gets to spend more time with their kids. I don't know. Population here, 2074. That's a tiny town that is really little here. More females than males by a pretty decent amount, actually. Median age is just about around the national average. It's usually about 37. Here it's 36 and a half, about 50, 50 married, just like kind of your typical suburb type of a place. Less people are single with children, more married with children type of people here. That's the type of place this is in the burbs out here. Race of this town, 92.8% white, 0.3% black, 6.7% Hispanic and 0.2% two or more racist. So it's Minnesota. I mean, you know, outside of Minneapolis, it's small town southern Minnesota. Very religious here, 72.3% of the people here are religious, which is really. That's like Utah numbers. That's really high. And most of the highest here is Lutheran. Of course it's going to be Lutheran. If you've seen Drop Dead Gorgeous, the girls, Lutheran gun Club or whatever they had there, it's all that stuff. The unemployment rate here is about the national average. It's pretty close. It's right around a little under 5%. Median household income here. Rest of the country it's about 69,000. Here it is 57,625. So a little bit lower than the national average. And that's not great. But cost of living is also lower. I think it works out here. Cost of living 100 is regular. Here it's 83, so a little bit lower. Median home cost here, $212,800. Which is.
- [12:05]
Jimmy Whisman
This is why everybody loves it.
- [12:07]
James Petregallo
Yeah, it's cheap, it's nice. I mean, and it's like an hour 20 from Minneapolis. So if you really, really wanted to live here and work in Minneapolis, you could. Easy, you could. I mean, I understand in the Midwest, I don't know if that's really a desirable commute, but in a lot of places that's Nothing, an hour 20. I mean, if you live in New York or California or something, Florida or Atlanta, it takes you an hour 20 to get to work.
- [12:29]
Jimmy Whisman
And that's how you can make the money. So you're going to do it.
- [12:32]
James Petregallo
Why not? Right? So anyway, we've convinced you, we've already, we've got you locked in. We know that what you're doing right now, you're about to head over and find a place to live in Blooming Prairie, Minnesota.
- [12:42]
Jimmy Whisman
Well, this is what you want.
- [12:43]
James Petregallo
We're one step ahead of you, everybody. We have for you the Blooming Prairie Minnesota real estate report. Okay? Your average two bedroom rental here goes for $990, which is about, well, yeah, 300 under the national average. That's not bad at all. Here's a four bedroom, three bath, 1710 square foot house, which sounds great.
- [13:13]
Jimmy Whisman
It's not bad.
- [13:14]
James Petregallo
Yeah, not bad. I mean enough. You know, I got some kids or something here. But the problem is this house looks like it's an abandoned murder shed. It's terrifying looking. Yeah, the paint's peeling off, there's shit, overgrown. It looks like definitely there's a, there's a body or something bad happened there. It's not on Zillow. On the listing they highlight the quote, hardwood floors, but the hardwood floors are plywood.
- [13:40]
Jimmy Whisman
What they mean is hard wood floors.
- [13:43]
James Petregallo
Yeah, hard wood floors. Very funny, farmish here, but it's plywood. It's shit. Somebody also wrote there's a door in the house where someone wrote beware of the ghost on it.
- [13:57]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh boy.
- [13:58]
James Petregallo
There's shit like growing on the front of the house. This place is terrifying. It's a terrifying horror house. If you want to make like a haunted house for Halloween or something, that'd be nice.
- [14:08]
Jimmy Whisman
And they want you to know but if they miss you, they wrote it on the door.
- [14:12]
James Petregallo
They wrote on the door just in case. $84,900 for this house. And I wouldn't put anything past. I'm sure there's a, there's probably a ghost doing all sorts of shit in there. You know what, you walk in, it's two, two ghosts doing it doggy style on the fucking couch. You're like, oh, I love it sounds. It's a weird looking house. Here's a four bedroom, two bath, 2160 square foot house. Really boring, really basic. The Kitchen was recently redone. You could tell. Everything else is like 2004 style in there. It's just not anything exciting. You'd say to tell me about your new house. You'd go, it's got four walls and a roof, you know, pretty, pretty dull. There's nothing else to write home about here. And 199,900 bucks, though. 2,160 square feet and four bedrooms for under 200 grand. That's not bad. If you got some kids and you need bedrooms for them, that's gonna be a good place to do it. Here's a three bedroom, two bath, 1734 square feet. This house is a goddamn shame because it's built in 1890, which means it's probably got some cool original shit that is completely stripped away 100%. Everything is gray and white and HGTV four years ago.
- [15:28]
Jimmy Whisman
Brand new.
- [15:29]
James Petregallo
They have gray laminate floors. Those fake wood floors they have. That house probably has amazing original hardwood floors. And they're like, let's put laminate over it. We don't want to buff anything, so let's do that. They're not into buffing. They're into that. So that house, 289,900 bucks. And that's like a redone and a new house. So that's only 1700 square feet. There isn't a lot of like big houses here. There's not a lot of mansions in this area.
- [15:59]
Jimmy Whisman
This is kind of 2,000 square feet. Ish. Three bedroom, two bath.
- [16:03]
James Petregallo
I feel like that's why everybody gets along. Maybe in this town, maybe everybody gets along because there's not like no haves and have nots. Those rich assholes in that neighborhood, they don't have that. It's just everybody has some. You know what I mean? No one's starving. Yeah, no one's starving. No one is fucking driving around a Ferrari. Everybody kind of feels like they're in the same socioeconomic area. That could help. Things to do here. There's only one thing to do that we could find here, and it's the old fashioned fourth of July.
- [16:30]
Jimmy Whisman
Old fashioned.
- [16:31]
James Petregallo
None of this. None of this newfangled fourth of July bullshit. I don't know.
- [16:36]
Jimmy Whisman
The men sit and the women make us a grill.
- [16:39]
James Petregallo
What's more old? No matter what the 4th of July is fireworks. Which are very old fashioned. They've been around since the 1800s. And what?
- [16:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Hot dogs, hamburgers.
- [16:48]
James Petregallo
Pretty old fashioned.
- [16:49]
Jimmy Whisman
That's it. Yeah.
- [16:50]
James Petregallo
Sitting around, that's pretty. Parades again. Very old fashioned. There's really nothing what else is the 4th of July? I don't know, but come on out to this. It's their 49th annual Old Fashioned Fourth of July. And there's a 5K race. Got to be in that. There's a street dance at J and H Liquors. Yeah, I mean you got to get drunk before you dance. That's obvious.
- [17:15]
Jimmy Whisman
That's where you smile the most probably.
- [17:17]
James Petregallo
I don't know if it's in the liquor store, maybe like in the, in the white wine aisle or if it's in like out front of the place. There's a volleyball tournament after that. Also a tractor pull. This is a really. There's a lot going on here.
- [17:33]
Jimmy Whisman
Summertime fair is what this is.
- [17:35]
James Petregallo
Beer gardens, bounce house. You know, like, like, like the pioneers did on the 4th of July. They had a bounce house with a, with a video game trailer. You know, like the old fashioned fourth of July. None of this new bullshit. Yes, that's what they had back in the day. Video game trailers. And they wanted to celebrate the birth of our Nation.
- [17:54]
Jimmy Whisman
Generator powered TVs in 1776.
- [17:58]
James Petregallo
Oh, it was there. Cornhole tournament, which obviously is. Dates back, dates way back to George Washington. Was the foremost cornholer in the entire country back in the day. We all know that. There's a chicken fry at BP Serviceman's Club.
- [18:14]
Jimmy Whisman
What?
- [18:15]
James Petregallo
At the gas station Chicken fry over at the gas station.
- [18:18]
Jimmy Whisman
I assure you, Chick, gas station chicken is a bad idea.
- [18:21]
James Petregallo
We've. We've told you exactly how bad of an idea that is.
- [18:25]
Jimmy Whisman
Not a good idea.
- [18:26]
James Petregallo
A kid's pedal tractor pull. Obviously. A family youth dance with mobile dj. You know, just like the old pioneers used to do on the 4th of July. Youth dance. An antique tractor show. A beer garden at city park. No outside alcohol allowed. You have to buy it from there.
- [18:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Several beer gardens.
- [18:48]
James Petregallo
I love beers. Several of those. First Lutheran church music in gazebo and beer garden. First Lutheran church music and beer garden. DJ on the lot behind J and H Liquors. I just pictured this poor bastard's in a parking lot behind a liquor store. I picture nobody there. Just a guy standing in front of his turntables going, I set up for this.
- [19:12]
Jimmy Whisman
The poor bastard, J or L has people behind him making music and people in front dancing. Poor bastard can't sell anything.
- [19:20]
James Petregallo
That's the only way he sells any liquor, bro.
- [19:22]
Jimmy Whisman
Maybe.
- [19:22]
James Petregallo
So they come in, get drunk. Food trucks, bounce house, kids races, pony rides. Gotta have those. A dunk tank again. Just like the Pioneers used to do.
- [19:34]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [19:35]
James Petregallo
Then there's a parade and then live entertainment gets there. Oh, here we go. Right after the parade. Travis Thamert. Mammert Thamert. T H A M E R T. Travis Thamert.
- [19:50]
Jimmy Whisman
I don't think he's gonna.
- [19:51]
James Petregallo
Big star Famert. No, you gotta go with your middle name.
- [19:55]
Jimmy Whisman
Travis. Travis John or Travis Paul something other than Sean something.
- [20:00]
James Petregallo
Yeah, you know, it's something like that here. This will be at the State School Orphanage Museum.
- [20:07]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [20:07]
James Petregallo
Where all the hot gigs take place. The State School Orphanage Museum. See how bad the orphans used to live.
- [20:16]
Jimmy Whisman
Here's a picture of an actual bastard.
- [20:18]
James Petregallo
Well, they have a. This is the fucked up part too. They have tours of historic areas and shit like that. They basically play old timey orphanage for the day. They have kids. Look at this.
- [20:32]
Jimmy Whisman
What?
- [20:33]
James Petregallo
Thank you, Sam. I have another children dress up in time. An old timey orphan. Time period unwanted. And they have like scripts in their hands to say like their tragic life. And my mother died of cholera and my father died in an explosion at the molasses factory.
- [20:51]
Jimmy Whisman
And my dad didn't have mammaries to feed me.
- [20:54]
James Petregallo
He couldn't feed me. So that's how that goes. There's a screening of a 1930 film. And also a genealogy research assistant will be there to help you see if you're a bastard from the orphanage. Yeah. See if you ever started out there. Crime rate in this town, what we are interested in here is very low. Property crime is about one quarter of the national average.
- [21:16]
Jimmy Whisman
Great.
- [21:17]
James Petregallo
So very low. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of all crime is about one third of the national average. Wow. This place is pretty safe, I gotta say.
- [21:27]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow. Everybody just doing well and being nice to each other.
- [21:31]
James Petregallo
Nobody's angry that they're someone else is much richer than them. I think that's what it is.
- [21:36]
Jimmy Whisman
So Minnesota, nice as fuck.
- [21:38]
James Petregallo
Let's talk about some murder here.
- [21:40]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay.
- [21:41]
James Petregallo
Whoa. My goodness, do we have some crazy shit to get into. All right. Have to give credit to the. Atavist. Atavist magazine. Atavist.com an article by John Rosengren. Really good article. Really comprehensive. Put everything together and got a lot of information out of it that was available other places. And they kind of really made it a good, easier place to find some of the core of the story. So good job. Got to give credit where credit's due here. Let's talk about some people, shall we?
- [22:11]
Jimmy Whisman
All right.
- [22:12]
James Petregallo
All right. Dave Reese here. R I E S S. There's some places it's spelled R E I, but It's R I E is what I've seen and all the legal things here. Yeah. Dave Reese, he's born in Rochester, Minnesota, which is just off to the east of where we are, here in Blooming Prairie. He's born on April 24, 1963, and kind of grew up in Rochester. He went to Mayo High School, which I believe is all that Mayo shit, is the Mayo Clinic and all that kind of shit.
- [22:46]
Jimmy Whisman
Is that right?
- [22:47]
James Petregallo
Yes. Yeah. That was you really? You dug deep for that one.
- [22:50]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah. Yeah. But is that real?
- [22:52]
James Petregallo
Yeah, the Mayo Clinic's from Minnesota.
- [22:55]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, I didn't know that was a person.
- [22:56]
James Petregallo
I don't know either. Did they name it Mayo? I don't know if they're just really excited about Mayonnaise up there or not. Just name everything after fucking Best Foods. After Governor Hellman, if you remember, from back in the day.
- [23:10]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah. Yeah.
- [23:11]
James Petregallo
So he is in the Class of 1981 at Mayo High School. Known as a real prankster, old Dave. Was he little cut up there? Yes. Kind of a fun loving kind of a guy here. So he enlists in the Navy when he graduates, which 81. Not a bad time to enlist in the Navy. Vietnam's over. We're not real. Not real into any big wars at this point.
- [23:36]
Jimmy Whisman
That is a good one. 81 to 85. That's a solid.
- [23:38]
James Petregallo
It's not bad. It's not bad. Grenada might have been in there or something. But other than that, you're good. You're pretty good here. So he's stationed in San Diego also, so not too shabby there. Good decision there. He's doing that. He puts the parka away and goes down to San Diego to look at some bikinis. So there's a friend of his named Denny. So we got Dave and Denny here, and Denny describes meeting Dave and he said that they became friends because I guess Dave was a friend of a friend and somebody offered him the very attractive offer of, hey, would you like to go over to this guy's house who you don't know, and lay some carpet for him as a favor today? And Dave said, sure. What a more unattractive offer. I don't think could be put on the table.
- [24:31]
Jimmy Whisman
He's got one of those claws with the padded thing you throw your knee into.
- [24:35]
James Petregallo
I guess so. Would you. I don't even know if he has that or if it's just like a carpet laying party.
- [24:40]
Jimmy Whisman
Did you call that a carpet stretcher or some shit like that?
- [24:43]
James Petregallo
Yeah, those things that you put on your knees and pull Them out, I guess. I don't fucking know. I've seen people lay carpets without that shit though. They just put them down.
- [24:49]
Jimmy Whisman
Really?
- [24:50]
James Petregallo
Fuck yeah. They're lazy.
- [24:51]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, you just leave it wrinkly.
- [24:53]
James Petregallo
We don't know what the hell kind of fucking. I don't know how this guy's living his life. We don't even. It's not Dave or Denny. It's Dave and Denny's friend. So anyway, Dave agreed to come over and do this. So you know he's a nice guy right away.
- [25:08]
Jimmy Whisman
No shit.
- [25:09]
James Petregallo
Because I'd laugh right in your face if you said you want to go to a stranger's house to lay carpet. No, thank you.
- [25:14]
Jimmy Whisman
To my neighbor's house.
- [25:15]
James Petregallo
And you know what that sounds like? That sounds like a job is what that sounds like. Going to a stranger's house to do work sounds like a job.
- [25:22]
Jimmy Whisman
Does that come with the carpet? Why are you buying it sans insulation? Insulation.
- [25:26]
James Petregallo
Cheap. That's what I mean. Yes, cheap, cheap, cheap. And this is when he's young too. So I don't know if this is some 24 year old guy putting his carpet down and. Yeah, doesn't have enough money or whatever the deal is.
- [25:35]
Jimmy Whisman
Soiled it and he wants to hang on to his security deposit.
- [25:38]
James Petregallo
That's possible. So anyway, Dave and Denny got talking about fishing, which they're both real into fishing. And they become very good friends. And if you judge all of Minnesota off grumpy old men as I do, everybody does nothing but try to get walleye all the time and muskie. That's all. It's all your whole. The whole point of your life. Sure, you guys work and you go to school and you do things, but it's really just to get to fishing time, isn't it?
- [26:05]
Jimmy Whisman
There's some bluegill around there too, but.
- [26:07]
James Petregallo
Well, that and chasing around hot old ladies I believe is what you guys do over there.
- [26:11]
Jimmy Whisman
Eight hours of work and then fill the rest of the time chasing skirt and fishing.
- [26:15]
James Petregallo
Chasing old skirt and fishing. That's what you're doing. Quite the lifestyle they have up there. So Dave and Denny ended up renting a trailer home right on the Mississippi River. And they used that as a. Not to live in, but as a base camp for their fishing.
- [26:31]
Jimmy Whisman
Hell yeah.
- [26:32]
James Petregallo
Yeah. They literally rented a fishing trailer. That's how much they like to fish.
- [26:37]
Jimmy Whisman
That's incredible.
- [26:38]
James Petregallo
That's quite the life they're putting together here. They entered competitions too, fishing competitions. And actually won some money and were on ESPN at one point in one of their fishing tournaments. In the 80s, which is pretty cool. ESPN in the 80s, on a weekend from about 7am to noon, it was nothing but fishing. There was the guy with that fucking. That blonde bowl cut there. The hell is his name? It was Jimmy something. I can't remember. It was Jimmy something. But he catch. He'd go, that's a nice fish right there. Nice fish. And my dad would say that shit all the time. That's a nice fish. Every time you'd see any kind of fish, as a joke, you go, that's a nice fish right there. Every single time.
- [27:19]
Jimmy Whisman
Is it Jimmy Houston.
- [27:20]
James Petregallo
Jimmy Houston. There you go. Jimmy Houston with his fucking bowl cut, his big stupid sunglasses.
- [27:27]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, and that's a nice fish.
- [27:29]
James Petregallo
That's a nice fish. Every time, every. That's a nice fish. No matter what. The fish could have had one fucking eye and an arrow sticking in it. He would have said, that's a nice fish right there. Love fish.
- [27:42]
Jimmy Whisman
This one years ago.
- [27:43]
James Petregallo
Oh, that's a nice. That's a tough and a nice fish. I'll tell you what. So they're doing good. Denny said there was a lot of laughter in that boat being out there. It didn't take a whole lot to get him laughing. He was just a happy guy, okay? Dave's just a big happy guy. That's what he's known as here. Now, during this time when he's laying carpet and fucking pulling fish out of lakes and rivers and shit.
- [28:08]
Jimmy Whisman
It's not even a euphemism. He's really doing it.
- [28:10]
James Petregallo
He's really doing it. That's what I mean. This is not, hey, my man's laying carpet. He meets a young lady that he's quite smitten with. He meets a young lady named Lois. Witty W I T T E Lois. Lois has some older sisters named Kim and Cindy. And they'll come in, they'll come into the story later on too. So you need to know that they get married on September 17, 1982. He's 19, she's 20. So.
- [28:41]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, got some older gal tracing that old.
- [28:44]
James Petregallo
Oh, man, old skirt right there. See, Minnesota, this is what happens. What does he do, fish and chase older women? Just what I said, man. I'm telling you, we nailed it.
- [28:55]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [28:56]
James Petregallo
Nailed it. So, yeah, he and Lois here. I guess he's got quite the light. He's 19 years old. He's got a fishing trailer. He's laying carpet. He's got a wife already, man, it's moving fast here. Lois is also from Rochester here. Five kids in her family. She's got. Like we said, she's got two older sisters. She's the fourth of five children. So kind of a middle lower child, I guess you'd call that, I suppose, yeah. Her father was an engineer at IBM. Her mother is a bit of a mess. She's got some. There's some stuff floating around in her family, obviously, and we'll find out later on. Her mother's a hoarder. Really bad. Really, really, really bad. Like, the house is destroyed. Lois never had a friend over the house because she was so embarrassed. Like, none of the kids could bring people over the house or anything like that. And they never had company. They never had anything because it's. Her mother was a hoarder. The whole house.
- [29:55]
Jimmy Whisman
They never heard of it until the show. I mean, obviously had to have been a thing a hundred years ago.
- [29:59]
James Petregallo
But I've heard of, like, people that. And I remember, because I remember hearing about the Collier brothers, and I knew there was people like that where it was like, oh, there's these people and they just keep a bunch of shit. And then there's dead cats everywhere. And like. And then the TV shows, like, yeah, those people. There's so many of them, though.
- [30:17]
Jimmy Whisman
There's so many every week.
- [30:18]
James Petregallo
It's so fucking sad. You know what I mean? It's so sad. And we don't know the. There's always. And on Hoarders, they'll always find the trigger. Like, oh, she was fine, and then, you know, her son was hit by a Mack truck, and they're like, okay. Well, then she started collecting things, and then it got weird. There's always some trigger to it.
- [30:35]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah. She started collecting mementos that reminded her grandmother that spontaneously combusted.
- [30:40]
James Petregallo
That's what I mean. So there. We don't know what her mother's trigger is or what happened or what tragedy happened. But whatever happened, it wasn't while Lois was around. So she never found out what the hell caused her mother's problems. This show, Small Town Murder, is sponsored by BetterHelp. Every January. It's a whole new slate, clean. You bet it is. Blank pages all the way around.
- [31:04]
Jimmy Whisman
Absolutely.
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James Petregallo
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- [31:37]
Jimmy Whisman
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- [31:59]
Jimmy Whisman
Back to the show.
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James Petregallo
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- [33:22]
Jimmy Whisman
And now back to the show.
- [33:25]
James Petregallo
But Lois ended up leaving high school. After the 11th grade, she dropped out.
- [33:32]
Jimmy Whisman
It's a weird time to quit, but all right.
- [33:34]
James Petregallo
Strange thing after the 11th grade. So I guess she figured it's not working out or I don't know. If you have a home life like that, who knows what was going on in her brain here? So following the wedding in 82, she and Dave have three kids in four years.
- [33:50]
Jimmy Whisman
That's fast wow.
- [33:52]
James Petregallo
They are pumping. Fucking kids. They talk about. So he is 23 and she's 24, and they got three kids, a fishing trailer, a fucking marriage, all this. That's a lot of responsibility at that age.
- [34:06]
Jimmy Whisman
And you don't have a kid every time you fucking.
- [34:09]
James Petregallo
These people are just constantly fucking. I think they have a kid every time they fuck. These two are. Man. The cold gets those sperm swimming. You know what I mean? That's how it works.
- [34:19]
Jimmy Whisman
It's fascinating. They're supposed to swim slower. Not even.
- [34:21]
James Petregallo
No, no, no. When guys have, like, problems with that, they put a fucking cooling. They get like, a cooling underwear.
- [34:28]
Jimmy Whisman
Really?
- [34:29]
James Petregallo
Yes, because it makes your sperm work.
- [34:31]
Jimmy Whisman
Really?
- [34:31]
James Petregallo
Yeah. The heat makes them lethargic, like salmon. Yeah. So that's why, like, they'll tell you, like, wear boxer shorts. Don't wear, like, anything that keeps your balls tight to your body because that'll keep the heat in and keep your. Your sperm dying. Yeah. So I think this guy's cold environment and loose pants is the best explanation I can have for three kids in four years. Yeah, I heard. I fucking. It was a sitcom where somebody was trying to get somebody pregnant, and that was one of the things they tried.
- [34:57]
Jimmy Whisman
I don't remember what it was all the time.
- [34:59]
James Petregallo
I remember there was a motor in his underwear is all I can remember out of the thing. And that was a joke because they kept hearing the motor. No, nothing's going on. Can't remember what it was. So that's a lot of kids. They had a boy, a girl, and then a boy again.
- [35:12]
Jimmy Whisman
Damn it.
- [35:13]
James Petregallo
Bang, bang, bang. Now, her youngest boy said she was caring about Lois. She was caring. Always put herself second and us kids first. Sure. Not bad. Yeah. So Dave finishes his stint in the Navy because, remember, he's in the Navy this whole fucking time. He was in Guam after a while, so he was stationed well far away from his family here. And once he gets done with that, the whole family moves back to Rochester. So I think they ended up having those kids in San Diego and all that stuff. So Dave gets a job at Krenlow, which is a manufacturer of metal equipment. That sounds fun.
- [35:54]
Jimmy Whisman
Sounds like a place that does that.
- [35:55]
James Petregallo
It really does. He drove a forklift.
- [35:58]
Jimmy Whisman
Awesome.
- [35:59]
James Petregallo
So that's fun. That's cool. He eventually opened a small bait shop called the Bait Box.
- [36:06]
Jimmy Whisman
There you go.
- [36:07]
James Petregallo
He has a real love of fishing and what bait goes for what? Like, he's a real. Like, an expert angler. I mean, that's. You know, guys that really, really know what they're doing. With that they know, like, oh, well, it's. It's fucking July and you're over here. So you need this exact worm. They don't like those. They like these.
- [36:26]
Jimmy Whisman
You don't go fishing after. After 10:00am oh, geez.
- [36:28]
James Petregallo
What are you fucking. Well, until sunset. Until sunset. Then you get back out there once, you know, they're getting the flies off the top of the water at that point.
- [36:35]
Jimmy Whisman
So at 10am you're just going to drink, buddy.
- [36:38]
James Petregallo
Yeah, you're just dicking off at 10:00am here. So. Yeah, they do that here. The bait box he opens where he sells live bait and fishing tackle. Great. That's what he's doing. Lois ran a daycare center out of their home, which they had an above ground swimming pool in the backyard. And you know, the kids, I guess would swim in there and all that kind of shit. So that's what they're doing. Which I guess if you have three kids that are that close and that in age and that young, it's a great idea. All you can do is. Yeah, daycare, that's tough.
- [37:07]
Jimmy Whisman
Otherwise their kids too.
- [37:08]
James Petregallo
It's already a daycare.
- [37:10]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [37:11]
James Petregallo
Like, I'm sorry, strangers. Might as well drop. Throw them in the fucking mix. Who cares? So in 2005, they moved to blooming Prairie. And this is. They move here for a specific reason. So Dave could pursue his dream of his dream. And his dream is much like our dreams. Jimmy. We've had many long conversations where we've drove from, like city to city to do shows. Your dreams, your ambitions and things like your desires, your deepest inner desires come out. And we all, including Dave, have a dream of opening a wax worm farm. That's been our. I know that's our dream.
- [37:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Hold on.
- [37:48]
James Petregallo
Yes, waxworm farm. Breeding wax worms.
- [37:52]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, those are like. These are real worms.
- [37:54]
James Petregallo
Worms. Yeah, they're just a type of worm. A specific type of worm. That's very good fishing.
- [37:58]
Jimmy Whisman
Those are the ones that fish really like.
- [38:00]
James Petregallo
That's what they like. That's how specific he is about it. So he moves here to. His dream is to open a wax worm farm. That's awesome.
- [38:11]
Jimmy Whisman
What year is this?
- [38:12]
James Petregallo
83. This is 2005.
- [38:14]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, okay.
- [38:15]
James Petregallo
All right, that's.
- [38:16]
Jimmy Whisman
I got worms.
- [38:17]
James Petregallo
I got worms. I got worms.
- [38:19]
Jimmy Whisman
Dumb and jumper joke, wasn't it?
- [38:21]
James Petregallo
Yeah, yeah, totally. So it's. Maybe there's that or maybe, I don't know, you could sell them on the Internet at that point. Yeah, you can sell Internet. Yeah, that's a great idea. So their home is out in the Country. A mile. It's a 218. On 218 is the road. And they say you pass six massive grain bins that sit on the edge of town. And then go another mile and you'll find their house.
- [38:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Small town directions.
- [38:48]
James Petregallo
And their waxwork farm. Yeah, six. No, six of them. Make sure you count.
- [38:53]
Jimmy Whisman
You pass five, buddy, you've gone too far.
- [38:55]
James Petregallo
But you get to the edge of town, which you're supposed to know what that is. And then there's six of those. Now there's a couple in town. So you want to make sure six pass the edge of town and then you're okay. More funny farm thing. Yeah, make a left where the old Johnson barn used to be. Okay. So Dave is known throughout the land as a swell fella. Let's just say known as a good guy. Everybody in blooming prairie tells you Dave is just a cat's meow.
- [39:29]
Jimmy Whisman
Waxworming some bitch.
- [39:30]
James Petregallo
You need wax worms. You need this. They said he's quick with a tip on a fishing spot. Good with that stuff. He has employ. This isn't, by the way, just a wax work. A wax worm business where he does everything himself. He has employees. This is an operation. Absolutely. They said that all his employees say he's very generous. He's not cheap. He's not stingy. He likes to tell stories, be silly and make up funny songs and laugh his ass off. He's just a big goofy guy. Love him and he's happy. He's fucking. He's making worms. I mean, that's his. So he can fish with them. That's his ambition. He's happy.
- [40:07]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, he's making worms. Fuck. For Christ's sake.
- [40:11]
James Petregallo
It's great. He's got a kind of a big, husky Minnesota frame on him. Keep those cold winters out. So everybody said. Though you couldn't be around Dave for a long time without laughing. Because he was just a laugher. And his laugh would make you laugh. Because he's just a happy guy. And Lois is also considered a mighty fine lady around town. A cool lady, a nice lady, they said round town. The consensus was. This is from that article. Lois was nice. She kept a clean house. She could be thought. Let's see whether she's gregarious. I'll tell you what about her. She keeps a clean house, that one.
- [40:49]
Jimmy Whisman
She knows how to operate a mop.
- [40:50]
James Petregallo
I'll tell you, she is something else. Boy, her vacuum gets a lot of use. She could be thoughtful. Giving some friends who liked horses a set of tumblers frosted with Equine figures. So she's just a nice lady. There's a couple named Tess and Rod Koster. Koster K O S T E R. They invited Lois and Dave to their lake house along with another couple, and they had a good time. They said Lois had brought steaks with her for dinner. And they got up the next morning and she's making breakfast for everybody.
- [41:21]
Jimmy Whisman
Huh.
- [41:22]
James Petregallo
So good people. Yeah. Is what they're getting at here now. February 16, 2006. They have some seriously bad luck, this family here. A fire destroys their home. No, their whole house burns to the fucking ground. They lost everything, including their cats. Everything. So it sucks. No one was hurt in the fire. Everybody gets out except for the cats. And the worms are in another building, though, by the way. So the worms are alive, those wax worms, they'll melt to nothing, obviously.
- [41:56]
Jimmy Whisman
And they turn right back into a worm.
- [41:59]
James Petregallo
Yeah. But in a clump. It's really tough, rock hard.
- [42:03]
Jimmy Whisman
So those gummy worms.
- [42:06]
James Petregallo
Yeah. Yeah. The cause of this, they decide, may have been it wasn't arson or anything like that. They thought it might have been some faulty wiring. And Dave did the wiring. So Dave feels terrible about this. He feels like he fucking. His family is homeless because he's an idiot and he didn't do something right. So he feels really fucking bad. And so the. Everyone in town felt bad for them as well. So they all took up a collection for him, for the family. It's really nice. A neighbor here, or this is the executive director of the Blooming Prairie Chamber of Commerce said that's something our community does for people, whether they know them or not. Apparently very nice people here support Minnesota. Nice. That's. That's it right there. So they rebuilt their house and moved back in here. It's three bedroom, two bath, and Lois.
- [43:02]
Jimmy Whisman
Same lot, huh?
- [43:02]
James Petregallo
Same lot, yeah. They just rebuilt the same house because they have the worm farm up front there too. Lois set up a daycare center facility there as well. So now she did that. All the parents said she was great. They dropped the kids off. A lot of times she'd have hot sandwich, like an egg sandwich for them there. To the parents, not even for the kids.
- [43:23]
Jimmy Whisman
In the morning, on the way to.
- [43:25]
James Petregallo
Word, you drop your kid off, she's like, want to bake an egg and cheese on a hard roll? He's like, yeah, I guess so. Fuck yeah. Why not go on your merry way.
- [43:34]
Jimmy Whisman
To leave your kid? I just made you $20 worth of sandwich. You got me for free.
- [43:38]
James Petregallo
Do you add an extra 20 at the end of the week for sandwiches or what? Because that's fucking awesome, though.
- [43:42]
Jimmy Whisman
Truly. Yeah.
- [43:43]
James Petregallo
How great is that? I don't even care how you treat the kids. I get fucking sandwiches.
- [43:48]
Jimmy Whisman
Beat them if you want.
- [43:50]
James Petregallo
I don't give a shit. Don't let them get in the way of making those sandwiches. Let's just say that whatever you have to do, keep them away from you. I want sandwiches. So that's obviously. That'll get you some repeat customers. I would say once her children now, they move out, they have kids of their own, they become grandparents.
- [44:08]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow.
- [44:09]
James Petregallo
They're gonna have five grandkids here. And they said, Lois just spoils those grandkids like crazy. And you know, that's what happens. Grandparents are like that. Lois would buy them cell phones, ATVs. They could ride around the property, just.
- [44:27]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, that's more than spoiling, James.
- [44:30]
James Petregallo
That's fun. That's a fun fucking grandma.
- [44:33]
Jimmy Whisman
That's just so greatest.
- [44:34]
James Petregallo
When they come over, they have ATVs to ride around and shit. She's trying to make it so the grandkids want to come over and hang out at the house and she can see it. Awesome.
- [44:41]
Jimmy Whisman
That's not giving them an ice cream. When mom says no, she bought him ATVs.
- [44:45]
James Petregallo
She bought him a fucking ice cream truck at that point. So she would do all of this. She joined a women's bowling league at Bunkies, which is a four lane bowling alley on Main Street. That is a very small bowling alley. Sounds like a lot of weight on that one here. That's rough. Jesus Christ. She would travel to tournaments around the state with a group of about three dozen women. Bowling tournaments. Oh, yeah, that's right, man. That's it. The chamber of commerce lady said she was fun loving. She had the cutest smile, meaning Lois did. So she's a good cook. Everybody knows that. A couple times a week, she would bring lunch over to the five guys who worked at the worm farm. Just come out, got lunch for you guys. She would bring out like big hunks of lasagna and shit like that. Here you go. Fuck yeah. That sounds great.
- [45:39]
Jimmy Whisman
She knows the path to friendship leads from the belly.
- [45:42]
James Petregallo
It's. Yeah, if you give me food, I am going to have a very hard time not liking you. Yeah, that's the thing.
- [45:48]
Jimmy Whisman
It looks like it's good food.
- [45:49]
James Petregallo
If you lead with food, especially. That's the thing. If you lead with food, we're gonna be friends probably. That's. You know, even if I don't like you, I will eat your food. I do like food.
- [46:00]
Jimmy Whisman
I don't know many people that I've. That have been in my life that brought me food that I was like, that guy's a piece of shit.
- [46:06]
James Petregallo
Yeah. Fucking. Fuck him and his food. Look at this asshole and his lasagna. Thanks a lot. With me, I don't know how much I want Minnesota lasagna, but I'm sure it's the effort that matters, you know what I mean? Yeah.
- [46:21]
Jimmy Whisman
It's probably American Beauty noodles, right?
- [46:24]
James Petregallo
Probably. Yeah. I don't think she's getting to Checo here, but that's fine. It's still. It's the effort that counts.
- [46:29]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, she did it.
- [46:30]
James Petregallo
It's the effort. So she stopped running the daycare around 2014. And she would help out with the farm kind of here and there, the worm farm, and do all that. But the worm farm became a lucrative business. They're actually. They're selling mad worms here. The staff made weekly deliveries to Walmart, quick trip bait shops throughout the area. They're selling them to fucking Walmart. I mean, they're.
- [46:56]
Jimmy Whisman
I don't know what the. What's the gestation period of worms that you can move?
- [47:02]
James Petregallo
They don't die fast. They don't die fast. They last a long time, worms. They last weeks and weeks and weeks.
- [47:07]
Jimmy Whisman
How fast do they. Do they make new worms?
- [47:10]
James Petregallo
I don't know. Good question. I mean, quick enough to make a business out of it.
- [47:13]
Jimmy Whisman
You got billions of worms. Right.
- [47:15]
James Petregallo
I would. That's why it's a whole farm, I think a whole worm operation. You can't just have one bucket there with going. Well, they're working on it.
- [47:21]
Jimmy Whisman
You know what I bait, it's like a scoop of dirt and it's just got worms in it. How do you know how many are in there?
- [47:27]
James Petregallo
I think they pick the worms out and just put them in the dirt. Yeah. I don't think they scoop the dirt themselves. Yeah. Then they bury themselves in the dirt. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. It's not. There's usually about a dozen per scoop.
- [47:39]
Jimmy Whisman
So there's a guy with an ice cream scoop is like, I don't know. It's got dirt and worms in there somewhere.
- [47:44]
James Petregallo
Meanwhile, every time it's always 12. You're like, man, they're good. They're good. So in addition to the local places, they also delivered bait throughout Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa. So they were really doing that. They also shipped boxes of waxworms. Apparently wax worms are an excellent bait for panfish everywhere. Anywhere there's panfish. That's where Wax worms are. So they're sending them out all over the place. And winter was their biggest and busiest time, actually, because there's a really high demand for these type of worms for ice fishing, apparently. So Dave's friend said of the farm quote, that place was a money making machine. If you said, can you make a great living off worms? I'd say, of course not.
- [48:33]
Jimmy Whisman
I mean, you'd probably be all right.
- [48:36]
James Petregallo
Yeah, but you picture like the worm guy and it's probably some like hunched over guy that goes out with a bucket in the morning and a little shovel and picks him out and. No, this is an operation. This is a whole deal. I didn't realize that. So, yeah, he treats his employees well, I guess. These are young guys. He hires guys in their early 20s and that kind of thing. Thing, you know, and they all look up to him and they think he's a nice guy. He would give them a little extra money here and there's 20 bucks. Go put gas in your truck or something like that, you know, Nice guy. Take them fishing just to be, you know, camaraderie. Gotta check if these things work, do it. His friend Denny said he was kind to people he didn't even know. That's nice. Now their lifestyle. Lois and Dave have a fun little lifestyle. Yeah, they do. Remember these? BP Servicemen's Club.
- [49:24]
Jimmy Whisman
I remember.
- [49:25]
James Petregallo
I don't think it's a gas station. I think it's something else because Lois and Dave often ate dinner at the Serviceman's Club. I think it's like a naval thing. It's for like probably ex Navy people. He volunteered on the board there and looked after the books as well.
- [49:42]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay. He's counting.
- [49:43]
James Petregallo
He's doing that. He actually discovered someone was embezzling funds and stop them from doing it and turned them in and all this shit. So Dave's a very upstanding guy. That's the thing here. He also campaigned for the club to start selling pull tabs to raise money, which are like lottery tickets, basically.
- [50:02]
Jimmy Whisman
Sure are. Little tabs. You pull them and match a three, you win.
- [50:05]
James Petregallo
That's it. He pushed it through. He's a good bowler. He likes pool better than bowling, though. He likes to shoot pool at the pizza seller.
- [50:14]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh.
- [50:15]
James Petregallo
Or the back. This J and H Liquors is an enigma. Or the back room of J and H Liquors.
- [50:22]
Jimmy Whisman
They've got one there.
- [50:23]
James Petregallo
This is a liquor store with a pool table in the back room, a DJ in the parking lot and street dancing out front. This place is fucking crazy. It's hopping yeah, the craziest liquor store in town, man.
- [50:35]
Jimmy Whisman
Is this a liquor store? You can actually drink what you buy. That's a bar, isn't it?
- [50:39]
James Petregallo
I guess J and H liquor is what they call it, a bar liquor. It's weird. So he'd go there, have a few beers, he drank Miller Light.
- [50:46]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay.
- [50:47]
James Petregallo
And he'd hang out around the pool table and, you know, bullshit with the other pudgy fishermen, I would assume.
- [50:52]
Jimmy Whisman
Sure, yeah.
- [50:53]
James Petregallo
They'd end up back at the worm farm a lot of times. And they'd hang out in his office. Dave had a good stereo in there. They'd be drinking Miller Lights, talking about fish and worms. Oh boy.
- [51:03]
Jimmy Whisman
And that shot he just hit on the pool table.
- [51:06]
James Petregallo
We are absolutely right to basically say whatever lifestyle dumb and dumber fucking grumpy old men had. That's pretty much how people live, even if they're not 75, apparently, because he's in his 50s at this point, he's doing this on Sundays. The group would gather in some other guy's house, which was basically a shed behind his house that he turned into a TV room, turned into a little cave there. And they'd watch the Vikings game, of course, on the big screen tv. And Lois, usually, she'd send along a cake or deviled eggs or something that she'd make. This is so folksy. This is so Midwestern.
- [51:42]
Jimmy Whisman
What a great life it is too. It's so wholesome and fun.
- [51:46]
James Petregallo
It is. And the lady from the chamber of commerce said, you know, Lois seemed like a real regular gal. She said she was funny, she was cute. They said, quote, she was a little round blonde hair, kind of piercing eyes. They were both fun. Dave was really nice and witty. Lois was just bubbly. Okay, so that's, that's how, that's who we're dealing with here. We're dealing with a couple who are. Everybody seems to like. And you know, that's a, that's how you want to be described, by the way, a little round.
- [52:16]
Jimmy Whisman
Little round.
- [52:17]
James Petregallo
A little round feels very common. So they said there's never any problems there. There's never. Cops are never called to the wax farm, the wax worm farm or anything like that. They said no domestic violence or no giant blow ups of holy shit, these two are going to kill each other out here. Nothing like that. You know, she would, she'd go out fucking bowling and he'd do his serviceman's club stuff and they would hang out and they go boating or fishing or hung out with Tess and Rod Coster or Whatever. That was their day. So 2018 comes around here now, Thursday, March 8, 2018. Let's talk about Dave's friends. Saw him at the old J and H Liquors, obviously shooting some pool, having some Miller Lights on Thursday evening, March 8, and they bullshitted and shot some pool. And, you know, we're talking about, are the Vikings going to suck next season? That's what they were talking about. And they were saying that Dave and Lois were going to go to Wisconsin to see their grandson play in a basketball tournament. That's what the plans were. So totally nothing crazy going on here. So that's Thursday, March 8th. Now, Monday, March 12th, after this weekend, Lois stops by the worm farm's office, they said, instead of usually. Like, she would greet the workers real warmly and, hey, how'd everything go? You have a nice weekend? Did you. Did your kid have that thing that he was talking about, all that kind of shit?
- [53:51]
Jimmy Whisman
How was the tournament?
- [53:52]
James Petregallo
They said, instead, she came in and kept her head down, and all she said is, dave's not feeling good. I've got to take care of him. And then they didn't see Dave or her Tuesday or Wednesday of that week. Okay, so they know how to run the worm farm. I guess it can run whether Dave's there or not. So then on Thursday, she came back down to the office, and they're like, hey, how's Dave? You know, Jesus, he's. Three days, we haven't seen Dave. He hasn't even walked out to the worm farm. This is crazy. He's gonna have worm withdrawals here. So she said, no, he's still sick. She goes, we have an appointment. I'm taking him to the doctor tomorrow because he just can't kick this thing. Yeah. So they were like, that's weird. The employees thought it was really weird that he was doing this. But they also knew that Dave had a long history of stomach troubles, different problems. So they thought maybe something coming to Miller Lite will do that to you after a while. Miller Lite in Minnesota Lasagna. I'll get you. That'll get you. So they didn't want to bother him because they thought maybe he's really sick. But they just kind of left him alone. They said that Lois would sit at the desk in the office, at his desk and stare out the window and all that. They said at one point, she put her head in her hands and elbows on her knees, like you do in here, like I do at the end of every day. Oh, God, why? How did I get here? And how Do I get away from it?
- [55:15]
Jimmy Whisman
I've got so much to do and no time to do it in.
- [55:17]
James Petregallo
Oh, God. One of the employees said, are you okay? And she said, yeah, fine. I didn't sleep good last night. So, yeah, that's. That's kind of how that goes. And this goes into the next week, really the next week. Lois says that tells the guys that, yeah, he's still sick, but the doctor cleared him to compete in the season opener of the Cabela's Masters Walleye Circuit, a fishing competition that is a big dude. The Cabela's walleye. Oh, boy. That's a. Cabela's is involved. You better bring. Yeah, it's a big fucking day here, man. God. Jesus. That's so funny. That Minnesota really is a grumpy old men. Just the whole. That's exactly what's going on there. So that meant he's supposed to leave that Tuesday morning. That would be March 20th, I believe, and pick up Denny Clark. And they're going to drive five hours down to the Illinois river to compete in this fishing competition. So that's what all the employees said. Oh, they figured that that's what's going on here. Oh, Dave, now he's going to his fishing tournament. Until the employees saw Lois drive off in the Cadillac Escalade. Now that is what Dave would take on fishing trips would be this Escalade. And this was two days after Dave was supposed to be away at the fishing tournament. So, like, he didn't take his truck. That's weird. But they see Lois pulling away and that's that. So interesting. Now Thursday, March 22nd comes around. It's been almost two weeks since anybody's talked to Dave.
- [56:55]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [56:56]
James Petregallo
At all. None of his employees have talked to him, which is odd. He has a business partner that hasn't seen or talked to him in almost two weeks as well. They're all kind of getting together and going. When did you talk to Dave last? I haven't talked to him in a while. Oh, it's been since then. Oh, shit. Me too. They all kind of get their stories together. They said he hadn't. They call him. He doesn't pick up. He doesn't return calls. They said they did receive responses to text messages, but they thought their responses were really weird because Dave doesn't type his text. I guarantee you he has fat fingers. I'm not saying it in a bad way. He's got, like, old man thumbs. Probably not a big texter. So they said he dictates all his messages. Oh, voice to text, which means you, you, all the words, some of the words run together and there's no punctuation also. That's what happens. They said these replies use like proper punctuation and somebody typed them.
- [57:49]
Jimmy Whisman
Like they wrote a letter.
- [57:50]
James Petregallo
Like they were writing a letter. Yeah, comma, this. And they're like, that's not Dave. So they were like, that's weird. But maybe because he's just sick and has time to do it. Who knows? Who knows? He was supposed to have left for a fishing tournament on March 20 and he was, you know, would have taken the Escalade, which is what he used to pull his 20 foot boat. But yeah, like I said, they saw instead Lois pulls out in the Escalade. And then they don't see Lois either.
- [58:16]
Jimmy Whisman
Huh.
- [58:17]
James Petregallo
So they don't know what to do. They're like, lois is gone. He's gone. What the fuck do we do now? Like, this is. What do we do?
- [58:24]
Jimmy Whisman
We need a boss.
- [58:25]
James Petregallo
Yeah. So they. That day that she takes off and they don't see her anymore. They're worried about everybody and so they call the police to do like a check on everybody. Can you make sure Lois is okay and make sure Dave is like fishing and all that shit. This is the employees that call the police.
- [58:41]
Jimmy Whisman
Fascinating.
- [58:42]
James Petregallo
So Friday, March 23, 2008, the police department decide. They dispatch two officers to do a little looky loo here on Dave and see if he's all right. So they drive up. The house was dark. They said, okay. They said that the wax worm farm is about 50 paces from the front door. So, I mean, if he can't go 50 paces out there, he must be really sick, real sick. That's really sick. So they visit at night to do this. The cops, it's dark and cold, there's snow on the ground. They said no one answered the door.
- [59:16]
Jimmy Whisman
We gotta go do a creep thing. Let's go do it at the creepiest time ever.
- [59:19]
James Petregallo
Creepiest time. Yeah. So just in case anyone is there, they'll see us like looking in the window, fogging it up with our breath. That won't be weird or anything.
- [59:27]
Jimmy Whisman
This weird and creepy light, it's not.
- [59:30]
James Petregallo
Fucking come broad daylight in the fucking first thing in the morning or anything.
- [59:33]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [59:34]
James Petregallo
So the officers in the pitch dark, in the snow and everything else, they're walking around the house and they noticed a light coming from a window and they went. And the bathroom window was open.
- [59:46]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh.
- [59:47]
James Petregallo
Which is not normal, I would say, for, you know, when it's cold out and there's snow on the ground to have your bathroom window open.
- [59:55]
Jimmy Whisman
Unless you're super sick and you got to get some of that smell out, man.
- [59:58]
James Petregallo
Something. Either that. Yeah, someone is shitting that thing up.
- [60:01]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [60:02]
James Petregallo
If you want to sit in a 30 degree bathroom, you are really shitting it up. Good. So the bathroom is above the height you can see from standing. So they boost each other. One of the cops boost the other cop up, which is really hilarious.
- [60:17]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [60:17]
James Petregallo
To watch armed adults boosting each other.
- [60:20]
Jimmy Whisman
Give me a boost.
- [60:21]
James Petregallo
Not. Not fucking nine year olds trying to go over a fence.
- [60:24]
Jimmy Whisman
Put your hands together and I'll step in them and then you push me up.
- [60:28]
James Petregallo
Come on, you can do it. It's either that or he got on his shoulders like a fucking chicken fight, which would have even been funnier.
- [60:34]
Jimmy Whisman
Bend over, I'll stand on your back.
- [60:36]
James Petregallo
Come on, do it. So one of them looks in and he appears. He sees a blanket on the floor of the bathroom with something under it. Oh, something that appears to be in the shape of a human.
- [60:49]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, it's a big bump.
- [60:50]
James Petregallo
It's a big bump and a big blanket. So they get two more deputies out here who went inside the house. They actually go inside the house and they find Dave on the bathroom floor under this blanket, very dead. His stomach is really fucked up. When you have a blanket covering your whole body just lying on the bathroom floor with the window open, you know your stomach's fucked up.
- [61:11]
Jimmy Whisman
You're sick.
- [61:12]
James Petregallo
So. Yeah, no, he is on the ground on the floor. He'd been shot twice with a.22 handgun.
- [61:19]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow.
- [61:20]
James Petregallo
Once in the chest and once in the back. And none of the employees have heard gunshots. None of the neighbors. There's not a lot of close neighbors, but no one's heard any gunshots or anything like that here. A bullet had pierced clean through his forearm, so it's probably a defensive. And then went into his chest. So it looks like he was holding it up, trying to block it. And they said he has been dead for a long time. Oh, no, they're thinking around 10 days at this point. Maybe long. He was never sick, man was never sick. That or he was really sick. Yeah, so they said his body had already. It's decomposing and bloating and I mean, it's. Even with the window open, it's still not that cold in there. So they're looking around trying to find Lois. It's saying, oh my God, maybe she's gonna be in another room. We're gonna find her fucking dead covered up somewhere too so they're looking for her and they don't know where she is. They can't find her. The Cadillac's gone, she's gone. Everybody's gone. One of, by the way, one of Dave's friends, Jerry, said he was my best buddy. Every day I go by their house and I wonder what the hell happened up there. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about one of our favorites, Simply safe.
- [62:38]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, SimpliSafe.com S I M P L.
- [62:41]
James Petregallo
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- [63:37]
Jimmy Whisman
Now back to the show.
- [63:42]
James Petregallo
Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more from our wonderfully fashionable friends over at Quint's. The holidays are here. Winter's here. I like it. I like being cozy. I like the fire. I like blankets. It's wonderful when it comes to winter, it's like survival of the fittest. And I'm willing to do or buy whatever I can do to stay cozy. I'm gonna be cozy whether you like it or not out there. Everybody telling you for the ultimate cold weather necessities made from premium materials. You gotta check out quints. We like quints. I love the stuff I got from quints. I got a really cool jacket that I'm wearing happily during this wintertime. Jimmy got his fleece pants. Keeping cool right now. Doing well out there in Arizona.
- [64:24]
Jimmy Whisman
Keep me warm next to an electric fireplace.
- [64:28]
James Petregallo
That's what I'm talking about. Luxuriate in Coziness without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.com smalltown murder for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Quince Q-U-I-N C E.com smalltown murder to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com smalltown murder now back to the show. Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you about a big time hero that we've just encountered. I'm a bread enthusiast and with Herobred you can focus on these health goals that you have that we all have. Trying to get ourselves better and still indulge in the luscious, wonderful, soft mmm, just so good. The fluffy goodness of bread that you love. But guilt free with the hero bread. That's the thing you like enjoying a nutritious breakfast wrap. Avocado toast, grilled cheese, maybe with some soup on a cold rainy day. Maybe a family burger night. Well, their products are delicious and flavorful and they have ultra low net carbs, zero grams of sugar and are high in fiber. They're pretty delicious. I really like the Hawaiian rolls. They're good. Yeah, I got the Hawaiian rolls. Yeah, they're so. They're like, they still feel like buttery and stuff, but yeah.
- [65:48]
Jimmy Whisman
Because when you're, when you're on some sort of a diet or any kind of keeping an eye on things, those are the, one of the first things to go that's.
- [65:55]
James Petregallo
Oh, God. Yeah, those are. These are good for you. They're not bad at all. And the texture. This is the thing. I'm a nut with bread texture. I don't like different textures of bread. They have a really nice, good bread texture. It's delicious. Herobred is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Dot and use the code. Small town murder at checkout. That's the code. Small town murder at H E R O dot co. Now back to the show. I would say so. So they had to find Lois to find out what happened. So basically all they know about Lois is they find out from her friends that she is known to frequent casinos. Oh. So they said, we're looking for this lady. She might be in trouble. You know, she might be kidnapped, she might be in peril, or she might be a criminal. Either way, she's a person of interest that we'd like to talk to. So if you're in a casino and you see this lady, give us a.
- [66:51]
Jimmy Whisman
Shout for a cute, smiled, round lady.
- [66:54]
James Petregallo
In the casino that's looking for Her. It warned that she might be armed as well, because we do know she owns a gun her father had given her as a collector's item, his Colt Woodsman.22. So we know she has a.22 handgun as well. So, yeah, then. Now, the officer assigned to this had discovered here, he looks into this whole thing. Where's Lois? Because, you know, first thing you look for, if you're looking for someone is their banking activity.
- [67:24]
Jimmy Whisman
That's a good idea.
- [67:25]
James Petregallo
Phone and banking activity in 2018, that's what you're looking for. You should be able to track anybody through that.
- [67:30]
Jimmy Whisman
Both of those ought to do it.
- [67:31]
James Petregallo
Yeah. Nobody keeps enough cash to not have to use a card. And nobody fucking doesn't use their phone. So they found out that in the previous week, Lois had deposited two business checks that were missing from the worm farm. One for $8,684.80. It's a lot of worms. And the other for $1,209.60 into her husband's personal checking account at Citizen State bank in Glenville, which is a half hour drive away. So she did that. She had then cashed three checks drawn on his account for 2,500, 7,500, and 1,011 grand. Eleven grand. On March 23, the last of those came out. So judging by that, basically because she did that through the business and she's not on the business, this is not her business. They put out a warrant to arrest her for felony theft.
- [68:30]
Jimmy Whisman
Fraud.
- [68:30]
James Petregallo
Yeah, fraud. So they can. At least now they can find her and bring her in, because now there's a warrant. It's not just a bolo. So that's different. A warrant. People are really looking for it. So. And it's in the computer. You'll punch it up and it'll be there. So there. And also, a US Marshal assisting with the investigation said all signs meaning of the murder pointed immediately to her, obviously so. But they didn't understand why this would happen.
- [68:57]
Jimmy Whisman
This is over 11 grand.
- [68:59]
James Petregallo
This doesn't make much sense at all. So they're really trying to figure this out. Because they're like, this doesn't add up exactly. Much like his checking account. This is not adding up. So they said that's what everyone in town was talking about. It's all anybody was talking about, was they said the forensics class in Blooming Prairie High School discussed the case for several weeks. Which, I mean, if you're a forensics class, that makes sense.
- [69:23]
Jimmy Whisman
Not bad.
- [69:24]
James Petregallo
I wish we had a forensics doing that. I wish we Had a forensics class in high school. I never had that. That have been fucking awesome.
- [69:30]
Jimmy Whisman
And taking real cases and being like, solve this shit. 11th grader.
- [69:33]
James Petregallo
Or just looking over them. That's fucking cool as shit.
- [69:36]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [69:36]
James Petregallo
I would have loved that shit, man. That would have really. They would have given me a path.
- [69:41]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah. At least given me an idea of something to do.
- [69:43]
James Petregallo
Yeah. Hey, I'm interested in murder, I guess.
- [69:45]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [69:45]
James Petregallo
So I like this. They look around, they said, okay, there's got to be an affair happening here. Either she's having an affair, running away to it, or he was having an affair and she's had enough.
- [69:56]
Jimmy Whisman
She's had it. Yeah.
- [69:57]
James Petregallo
Nobody's having any affairs. They look into it.
- [70:00]
Jimmy Whisman
Eleven grand is not forever money. What the fuck is going on?
- [70:03]
James Petregallo
I mean. And neither of them are having any affairs. There's never been any domestic abuse. There's never been any strife, trouble. There's no reason as far as that. This makes no sense of why she would do this. They said that it's just weird. So one, they think that this might be because she's a gambling addict. That's all they could think. But because that's all they could really find is she is a big gambler. Outside of that, there's really nothing to her. There's no vices, there's nothing secret. One of the cops said, this was a new one for me. It was hard for me to wrap my head around someone committing a murder just to feed a gambling addiction. So he's like, I didn't know if I was buying that because that seems odd. Very weird. And one of the other U.S. marshals says she's not the common murderer. She doesn't portray that image. People just don't think of a grandmother being a cold blooded murderer. You hope not, anyway.
- [70:55]
Jimmy Whisman
It's so small.
- [70:57]
James Petregallo
It's very small for anything like that, for murder. The other thing is she doesn't. This is the odd part is usually gamblers. There's gambler profiles. Basically. There's only a few different types of gamblers. Oh yeah. Your brain, much like a drug or a food or something like that, your brain reacts a certain way and there's only a few different kind of ways Your brain really reacts to gambling. And the people who get addicted to it and get really into it, it affects them in one of a few ways. Basically. They said there are basically two categories. And there are little bits, little things off of this, little estuaries probably that lead to other things. But the two basic categories that encompass 98% of the gamblers are thrill seekers. That's usually men, women that play skill based games with high stakes. Think about Texas Hold'em. Texas Hold'em or the guys doing high level fantasy shit too.
- [71:54]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay?
- [71:55]
James Petregallo
Yeah, yeah. Because gambling, most of the time, it doesn't involve sports because they're usually not good at it. But most of your gamblers, it's other people playing sports, not them.
- [72:03]
Jimmy Whisman
Right, right.
- [72:04]
James Petregallo
So but like a gambler like that, it's a thrill seeker. That's what Jordan is. Exactly. But this is like, you know, skill based games with high stakes. They want to win big. And also escape artists are the other type of person. These are people trying to escape life.
- [72:19]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh. Helps them escape the boring monotony.
- [72:24]
James Petregallo
It gets them out of everything. They say these are often people who play slot machines, but they don't even play them to hit a jackpot. They said that's not what they're there for. It's to enter a trance state that makes them disconnect from the world.
- [72:37]
Jimmy Whisman
Just pull the knob. Just pull the knob.
- [72:39]
James Petregallo
Pull the knob. You just concentrate. Cherry seven. Fucking gold coin.
- [72:43]
Jimmy Whisman
Pull again.
- [72:44]
James Petregallo
Cherry, cherry, gold coin. Fuck.
- [72:45]
Jimmy Whisman
Pull again.
- [72:46]
James Petregallo
That's it. And after a while, your whole life, your whole shit becomes that and you forget about what your troubles are.
- [72:52]
Jimmy Whisman
Holy shit.
- [72:53]
James Petregallo
So that's what they do. They said women with gambling habits are more likely to fall into the second category, the escape artists. They're not usually. There are some, but they're not usually, you know, 95% of the thrill seeker gamblers are men. That's just how it is. One, a 2005 article about female gambling published in the International Journal of Mental Health and Addiction said that electronic slot machines like alcohol and drugs can be used for mood management. Wow. Yeah, it's just, it'll regulate you. They said many women with gambling problems are seeking a way to numb emotions, shut out the world and orchestrate a timeout. Just basically this is, I'm here now and you can't get me type of thing they said in the article. As the gambling problem progresses, many women become more and more isolated as well. And this exacerbates feelings of loneliness and shame and guilt that they have from gambling in the first place.
- [73:53]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay.
- [73:54]
James Petregallo
So it's just a. It's a big snowball that goes down a hill and, you know, at the bottom of it, nothing to do with winning for them. For men, it has everything to do with winning. It's. It's the stakes. The high stakes are big, but only because that, that gives them more adrenaline. It has nothing to do with the actual money. Yeah, it's not like I'm going to do that so I can buy that fucking, you know, condo for my mom down in Boca Raton. Yeah, that's not what they're doing. They just want to win. They want the feeling of the win. That's why they're. If they win 100 grand, they just don't go awesome and leave. Yeah, they're like, if 100 winning. If winning 100 grand feels like this, what's winning a million feel like? I gotta find out. And they do that. That's why I'm not a gambler. Because I go 100 grand, I go 100 grand and I'd be gone. You'd never see me again.
- [74:39]
Jimmy Whisman
I'd never gamble again.
- [74:41]
James Petregallo
No, that's because we're not gamblers. We don't have that thing. Yeah, we don't have that thing. So. And they. During the investigation, they figure out that Lois has withdrawn from friends and family in the last couple months. So they're thinking this might be part. And this is all just a theory they have at this point because they don't have Lois. They don't know where she is. So they have to talk to people and try to put together a psychological profile of her, essentially. And they think because she has been withdrawing it, maybe that's because she's been gambling more and more and maybe that could have caused this. Who knows? That's what they're trying to figure out. So one of the family members said, I don't know if it was a condition of her addiction, but she'd cut ties with a lot of people, family and friends. A lot of people we talked to said, yeah, I know Lois, but I haven't talked to her in a while. That was the general consensus. Now there's a place they go, and I'll show you a picture of it in a little while called Diamond Joe Casino and Diamond Joe Joe. And it does not look like a casino.
- [75:46]
Jimmy Whisman
I believe it.
- [75:47]
James Petregallo
It looks like. It looks like. Like a rural gas station without the gas. That's what it looks like.
- [75:52]
Jimmy Whisman
We drive by one of those in Oklahoma, though.
- [75:54]
James Petregallo
Oh, yeah. Oh, God, no. It was in. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was on the way from Kansas City to Oklahoma City. And we were like, that's a casino, but imagine that. But shitty looking too, but run down, really. Yeah, it was. It's not good. The diamond joker scene. Oh, Dave occasionally went with Lois to the Diamond Joe, but he's not a real big gambler. That's not his thing. It's her thing. So they said that it had been a problem. Lois, they found out, had bilked several worm farm employees out of some money. How much can you make on the worm farm to be built out of money? That's terrible. Well, apparently she was getting, quote, donations from them to everybody, pitching to get a golf cart for Dave so he could shuttle around the property and go back and forth from the business to the house and all that shit. So a lot of the employees pitched in for this. And then she never bought it. Nothing. She just got a bunch of money and gambled it away. That was it. That was her way of scamming money. One family member suspected that she went to the casino with money designated for the interment of her father's remains. Okay, there's gambling problems, and then there's taking the funeral money and gambling at. Gambling problems. That is wild.
- [77:17]
Jimmy Whisman
Is it? That is a place to put ashes, or was it an actual grave?
- [77:22]
James Petregallo
No, it's ashes.
- [77:23]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, boy.
- [77:24]
James Petregallo
They're supposed to be a thing. So his ashes had sat in her house for many months after his death because she was supposed to do something else with it. Instead she's sitting there with the guy's. Poor guy's fucking ashes in a bag because she gambled away the money she was supposed to use. This was in 2014. So this was four years earlier. Her son Braden says that. And this is insane, after her father died, she got a half a million dollar inheritance from her. From the father. She gambled it all away. No. Gambled away a half million dollar inheritance. This guy saved up this money his whole life.
- [78:01]
Jimmy Whisman
His whole life.
- [78:02]
James Petregallo
Gave it to her, and she pissed it away and she got rid of nothing. Like, nothing. The son Braden said it was all secrecy. Gambling is a terrible thing where it can suck people in and destroy lives. Yeah. Gambling's worse than drugs. It's worse than drugs. It is. It's worse.
- [78:20]
Jimmy Whisman
Lives. So much worse. Yes.
- [78:22]
James Petregallo
To me, it's like this carnivorous fucking. Like a carnivorous worm that. Because I want to talk about worms here. Carnivorous worm that can just get in and eat everything. It's like a locust.
- [78:35]
Jimmy Whisman
It might be worse because you don't see when somebody's fucked up.
- [78:38]
James Petregallo
That's the thing.
- [78:39]
Jimmy Whisman
You know what I mean? You can see when somebody's fucked up on drugs.
- [78:41]
James Petregallo
On drugs. You can see it. You can see it. They get. They go to work and go, jesus Christ, Dave. You have a problem, man. You can't get it. I don't know Why? I use Dave. But you can't show up smelling like this and doing all the gambling.
- [78:53]
Jimmy Whisman
Where have you been?
- [78:54]
James Petregallo
Until you see who they've been stealing from or whatever, you don't see that it's a problem. And if you have half a million dollars, it's not a problem.
- [79:01]
Jimmy Whisman
You're not.
- [79:01]
James Petregallo
Yeah, that's legal. For you to piss your own money away. That's the other problem. There's nothing illegal or immoral about it even.
- [79:08]
Jimmy Whisman
It's more of a disease. And an awful disease, because when you have a half a million dollars, you don't have to gamble anymore. And then you made that disappear. Gamble how?
- [79:17]
James Petregallo
Why trance? Like state God. It's not about the big win. And it's crazy. I don't get it at all. I really don't. But that's just me. But to me, yeah, gambling is. And I don't care if, you know, it's legal. People should want to push your money away. Go ahead. I don't fucking care. You can. There's tons of shit to piss your money away on. You can buy a bunch of cars that you can't afford. You could buy a bunch of whatever you can't afford. So that's not. Not my fucking place to tell you where to use your money. But it's even worse now because it's right on your phone. You can just pick up. You don't have to go anywhere.
- [79:50]
Jimmy Whisman
You can do it from your couch, watching whatever the fuck you're gambling on.
- [79:54]
James Petregallo
Dude, there's people that, like. I read this book about DraftKings and all that kind of shit. And, dude, there's people that lose everything.
- [80:01]
Jimmy Whisman
Over this shit, every fucking thing.
- [80:04]
James Petregallo
They are obsessed with it and it can't be stopped. It's right on their phone. So it's, you know, all times of day. And it's crazy, dude, it's crazy. They found some other shit here. They found out that her oldest sister, Kim. Lois's oldest sister, Kim, In October 2010, Kim's marriage was falling apart and she had a fucking mental breakdown. Just. Boom. So Lois and Dave let Kim live with them before they ended up. Her. Her breakdown was so bad, they had to place her in adult foster care.
- [80:38]
Jimmy Whisman
What is that?
- [80:39]
James Petregallo
I've never heard of that before. Apparently that's like rehab, like a halfway house for mental illness or something. I don't know.
- [80:47]
Jimmy Whisman
I can't deal with her. You guys take her.
- [80:49]
James Petregallo
It's not a hospital, but it's like adult foster. Never heard of that before. So in February 2012, claiming that her sister was unable to perform tasks for daily living or make decisions regarding her medical needs, Lois applied to be Kim's legal guardian and conservator. That's how bad that she took that breakup. Kim. Wow. So she said that she applies for that. According to the forms that she filled out, her sister suffered from bipolar disorder as well as clinical depression and had the cognitive capacity of a 10 year old. I don't know if she always had the cognitive capacity of a 10 year old or just this mental breakdown caused this. I'm not sure what the hell was going on there. So there's required annual filings, I guess if you're someone's conservator. Like that. So Lois reported that her sister's emotional, mental, and physical states had deteriorated, and she noticed that Kim had. She noted on the forums that Kim had schizophrenia and Parkinson's disease.
- [81:53]
Jimmy Whisman
And she got this from a breakup?
- [81:55]
James Petregallo
Wow. I don't think you can get Parkinson's from a breakup. No. Maybe all the mental stuff, but I.
- [82:00]
Jimmy Whisman
Don'T think that happens.
- [82:01]
James Petregallo
Please don't break up with me. I don't want to shake for the rest of my life. Really? That'd be weird. So she also declared that Kim had obsessive compulsive disorder that caused her to go on shopping sprees and spend lavishly. All right, so that's. They gave Lois control of Kim's finances then because of this. This included a $200,000 inheritance from their father.
- [82:29]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, no.
- [82:30]
James Petregallo
Lois withdrew thousands of dollars at a time from an ATM at the Diamond Joe Casino.
- [82:37]
Jimmy Whisman
What'd she do with it? James, God damn it.
- [82:40]
James Petregallo
She gambled it. A court audit. Court audit dated September 15, 2015, showed that Lois's fiduciary shit was insane. All this bullshit included a payment of $14,070 on an alleged debt to their already deceased father. She said that she paid $14,000 out of it as a debt paid back the father, who's been dead for three years. Three years. Supposed gifts to Lois's three children totaling $15,000 and almost $8,500 in reimbursement for undocumented expenses purportedly paid by Lois. So she had Kim as a social worker advocate that requested suspension of Lois's role as guardian and conservator. Lois tried to explain it all away, but the court said, nuh, no.
- [83:33]
Jimmy Whisman
I'm just paying bills. You don't understand.
- [83:35]
James Petregallo
Yeah. Guardianship was suspended, and four months later, she was discharged as the guardian. And Kim remained under state's care. Like to this Day, from what I understand.
- [83:45]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, my God.
- [83:46]
James Petregallo
That divorce broke her fucking brain. That's sad.
- [83:49]
Jimmy Whisman
Broke everything.
- [83:50]
James Petregallo
Broke everything. The Steel County Attorney's office decided not to press criminal charges against Lois because a judge ordered her to repay $100,534 to Kim. So they said, all right, that's fine. They got reimbursement and retribution, whatever. So that's.
- [84:10]
Jimmy Whisman
I mean, just adding all these dollars up. James, that's so much money that she gave to Diamond Joe.
- [84:14]
James Petregallo
So much Diamond Joe is collecting. And, dude, you could build five diamond joes for $100,000. This place is a dump. It's looks like a one room fucking dump. It looks like a shithole. So now Lois's attorney from this time said that, quote, lois is a really pleasant person to be around. She's friendly, caring, warm. She said she really liked her. Now she's got some other issues. Lois here. Lois has her own bout of depression. In 2016, two years before Dave was found dead, Lois just went missing at one point. This was right after the theft from her sister was exposed here. Dave came home from lunch at Dairy Queen with a co worker. Very good choice, Dave. Those cheeseburgers are excellent. I think it's because the pickles are a little thicker. I think it's something about those pickles being a drop thicker and not so thin and shitty that makes them delicious. I don't know if it's that the fucking cheese, the bun is soft, mayo on it.
- [85:13]
Jimmy Whisman
Obviously there's a lot of things that they do that just. They do the right thing. It's a good little cheese, lettuce, big thick tomato too. It's just a good goddamn burger.
- [85:21]
James Petregallo
It's a goddamn good burger. So he asked the co worker who he went to have Dairy Queen with to drop him off at the house instead of the worm farm so he could use the bathroom. I mean, the Dairy Queen went through them. It will go through you. That is one thing. It is delicious.
- [85:36]
Jimmy Whisman
It does move. Yeah.
- [85:37]
James Petregallo
By the time you get from the Dairy Queen to your house, you're going to need to make a pit stop.
- [85:40]
Jimmy Whisman
It's like a large coffee in a burger form.
- [85:44]
James Petregallo
It's what it is. So he walked in the house to go take a dump. Now this is the thing. I got to use the bathroom quick, which I'm sure there's a bathroom in the worm farm. That meant he's got to drop a deuce, right?
- [85:56]
Jimmy Whisman
That means this is going to be a sticky dog.
- [85:58]
James Petregallo
He comes in with a hot double burger deuce cooking in his fucking. In his belly here. He's got a real ice cream sundae brewing in there. There's a. There's a blizzard going on. And he walks inside and finds Lois unconscious in a chair.
- [86:14]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, my God.
- [86:15]
James Petregallo
Yeah, she overdosed on pills. That's the thing.
- [86:18]
Jimmy Whisman
Jesus.
- [86:19]
James Petregallo
Do you call 911 as you're shitting? What do you do? You're like, you gotta come here. Oh, God. And they're like, are you okay, sir? Yeah, no, I'm fine. I just had Dairy Queen, but she's the main problem.
- [86:32]
Jimmy Whisman
Is she breathing? Christ, I hope not through her nose.
- [86:35]
James Petregallo
Jesus. I don't know, man. Thank fuck we always keep this bathroom window open. So she had overdosed on pain pills on purpose, clearly. He calls 911, first responders come, they do CPR. She's helicopter airlifted to the St. Mary's Hospital in Rochester. Oh, yeah. After almost two weeks, she recovered. She was in the hospital at Mayo Clinic for two weeks. She just kind of laid low in blooming prairie for a while and basically then started going out acting like nothing happened. Everybody else ignored it because it is small town America. They'll talk behind your back, but no one's gonna be like, so I heard you're all fucked up. They'll just pretend everything's fine.
- [87:18]
Jimmy Whisman
Heard you committed. Tried to commit suicide. 110 grand is a lot of money.
- [87:22]
James Petregallo
That's a lot of money there, chicky. So, yeah. And Dave tried to protect her from the gossip and all that kind of thing here. He would just make passing comments saying, you know, she's doing better and, you know, trying to help out with the gambling and all that kind of thing here. He said later on, though, about this day that he found her unconscious. Dave said, quote, that was one of the biggest mistakes of my life going up to the house that day. Yeah. Whoa. Dave said, Dave, one of the biggest mistakes ever made was finding her unconscious and saving her. He said that to a friend of his. Wow. He said, it's just. Damn it. Life would be easier if that would have happened.
- [88:05]
Jimmy Whisman
So that's some really, really dark shit to say out loud.
- [88:08]
James Petregallo
It is. If somebody would have just cooked this burger to proper temperature, I'd be one.
- [88:14]
Jimmy Whisman
One widowed son of a gun, man.
- [88:17]
James Petregallo
So the cops obviously think that she has something to do with the death here at this point. Clearly. And they're looking. They have the. There's a US Marshals North Star Fugitive Task Force based in Minneapolis, which sounds really official.
- [88:33]
Jimmy Whisman
It's like the Texas Rangers, right?
- [88:35]
James Petregallo
Yes. I mean, the North Star Fugitive Task Force. We find everything like the North Star, Minnesota, Texas Rangers. Oh, shit. So they heard speculation that Lois was siphoning money from the worm farm and that Dave was aware of the gambling habit. They said maybe Dave caught her doing this and, you know, something was squandering all his money. And he confronted her, and maybe that's what happened. And one of the cops said, after that, the husband said, I'm done. I'm cutting you off. If you want more money, you can work for me in the business, but I'm not giving you anymore. Maybe she got pissed off and whatever. Like I said, going around town, it was difficult because everyone in Blooming Prairie just said, oh, yeah, they're a nice couple. They're great. Yeah, they show up down at the bowling alley and all that kind of thing here. And, you know, and people who knew things about Lois's past, like the theft from her sister and the attempted suicide and all that, they just wouldn't say shit. These people. None of my business, they'd say, just. I don't know. They seem nice to me. It's interesting. One person, Scott Carlson, who's one of Dave's real close friends, said Lois was likable, but you always knew she was a click off. She did some oddball shit. Which means. I think I would like Scott because of the way he said that.
- [89:53]
Jimmy Whisman
He said oddball shit.
- [89:54]
James Petregallo
She did some oddball shit. That's his quote to the newspaper, which means, I like this guy. He's not. I don't care what you're writing for. She did some oddball shit. And that's how I'm gonna put it.
- [90:04]
Jimmy Whisman
You can write that if you want.
- [90:05]
James Petregallo
Yeah, you go ahead and put that in there. I don't give a shit. Right?
- [90:09]
Jimmy Whisman
Charlie. Charlie Brown, spellings. I don't care. But.
- [90:13]
James Petregallo
So apparently they talked about. In July of 2016, she had disappeared for three days. This is another time said Dave discovered some new debts she had incurred and was so concerned that he reported her missing to the sheriff's office. And when Lois returned, she said she'd been visiting a girlfriend in Minneapolis and activated like it was no big deal. Like normal people just disappear for three days.
- [90:37]
Jimmy Whisman
It's okay.
- [90:38]
James Petregallo
It's fine. I can't imagine if I disappeared for three days and just came home, Sarah would be like, where the fuck have you been? What is wrong with you?
- [90:45]
Jimmy Whisman
It's okay. I was visiting a friend in Jersey.
- [90:48]
James Petregallo
I just went now. Yeah, I got a guy friend down in Jersey I've been visiting up in Albany. Yeah, just went. It's about an hour and a half away saying, I just went up there and. Yeah, what's the big deal?
- [90:57]
Jimmy Whisman
What's the problem? I was in Newark.
- [90:58]
James Petregallo
I don't get it. So media outlets along across the world are really enjoying this story because.
- [91:06]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, because it's juicy.
- [91:07]
James Petregallo
It's juicy as shit. They nickname her because all these publications and different sites have to give her a different nickname. So she's either Killer Grandma Gamblin, Granny or my personal favorite, Losing Streak Lois. That is awesome. The name of this episode has to be Losing Streak Lois because that's fucking awesome.
- [91:32]
Jimmy Whisman
That's a great one.
- [91:33]
James Petregallo
I don't know, but hats off to you, ma'am or sir, because that's fucking awesome. Good. That's the best one by far. Granny. Who cares about Granny and Grandma? Losing Streak Lois sounds great.
- [91:46]
Jimmy Whisman
Who cares what how old she is in the alliteration you can do there. Losing Streak Lois is everything.
- [91:52]
James Petregallo
That's everything all wrapped up into one. I fucking love it. Yeah, so they said that, you know Dave, everybody's very sad about Dave. One of his friends who goes duck hunting and fishing with him said that, you know, this is. The whole town is stunned and no one wants to say anything about Lois because they. Nobody talks shit here because it's Minnesota. Even though they. Even if they think she killed your friend, they're like, I don't want to say anything about her, but let's just.
- [92:21]
Jimmy Whisman
Say that to their better half in bed when nobody can hear it while they're reading books.
- [92:25]
James Petregallo
Yeah, let's just say that I don't have anything nice to say about her. So I'm not going to say anything at all. That's the worst you're going to get out of somebody. One guy said it's been traumatic. I never saw any trouble with his wife. I just don't understand it. Maybe he just wanted to see the best in her. Like maybe there was something wrong and he didn't see it. He said there was just. There was just no sign something like this could happen. It's devastating. So where the fuck was Lois when she took off?
- [92:51]
Jimmy Whisman
Where'd she go?
- [92:52]
James Petregallo
Well, on Friday, March 23, while they were finding Dave in a bathroom.
- [92:56]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [92:56]
James Petregallo
Shot twice. Lois was at the old Diamond Joe.
- [93:00]
Jimmy Whisman
Right down the road.
- [93:01]
James Petregallo
Right down the road. Check this. It's a 45 minute drive from Blooming Prairie. So.
- [93:04]
Jimmy Whisman
No, down the road.
- [93:06]
James Petregallo
This is the Diamond Joe Casino.
- [93:08]
Jimmy Whisman
Jimmy, fuck.
- [93:10]
James Petregallo
That is the Diamond Joe. Yeah, dude, it's. It's in a. That's this is the front. And then it's a rusty corrugated steel warehouse building. Literally they turned into it.
- [93:21]
Jimmy Whisman
It's a farm.
- [93:22]
James Petregallo
It's a farm. It used to be for like, you know, storing wheat and now it's fucking a casino. That's what's happening.
- [93:28]
Jimmy Whisman
You can come there and pissed away your inheritance and your sisters drive her even more mad.
- [93:35]
James Petregallo
All your husband's worm money down the tubes here. So she went there all the time. It's a farm themed casino just across the Iowa border.
- [93:44]
Jimmy Whisman
It's a defunct cabin.
- [93:46]
James Petregallo
It's a fucking defunct farm. Don't act like you built this from scratch to look like an old farm. This is just a building that you could put fucking slot machines in.
- [93:55]
Jimmy Whisman
It's about a 40 saying this is a KFC. And it clearly used to be a.
- [94:01]
James Petregallo
Wendy's, as I say, still has the atrium out front.
- [94:05]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, it's a Wendy themed kfc.
- [94:09]
James Petregallo
You know how it is. No, that's just an old one. So she's there, she liked to play the slot machines in the high roller room which are like, you know, $5 and $1 slots. That's the high roller. Keeps you away from the penny riff raff, I think is what's going on there.
- [94:26]
Jimmy Whisman
Keeps you away from the ones that are waiting on that bucket to fill when they hit it big on the nickel.
- [94:31]
James Petregallo
Oh, here it comes, here it comes. I'm winning all these nickels. Then you got to do math. 20 of them equals a dollar. So this isn't a lot of nickels. I guess.
- [94:41]
Jimmy Whisman
This isn't a lot of money at all.
- [94:42]
James Petregallo
I won 500 nickels. Great. So at 6:30pm she bought a pre made packaged sandwich from the come and go gas station next door.
- [94:55]
Jimmy Whisman
Gross.
- [94:57]
James Petregallo
Disgusting. Jesus Christ. Video surveillance shows her five'five 165lbs, dressed in white slacks, black and white striped cardigan unbuttoned over a purple T shirt. Her hair was like Ric Flair, bleached to the point of being white. Like boom.
- [95:15]
Jimmy Whisman
Eating that don't have to chew it sandwich. Those things are so wet.
- [95:18]
James Petregallo
Those are so I've eaten exactly one.
- [95:20]
Jimmy Whisman
Of them and threw the rest of it away. Oh, why did I do this?
- [95:25]
James Petregallo
That meat, that, all that, even the like you bite it and it all feels like it has skin on it.
- [95:30]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, it just mushes punctures.
- [95:32]
James Petregallo
You don't even have to chew it. This is gross. Yeah, nasty. So she as she's buying the sandwich, she said, say if you want to start heading south, would you just take the 35 south to keep going down to the next state. Is that the way to go, you think? And the guy said, I think so. I work at a fucking gas station. I don't go anywhere. I make $7.50 an hour. Where do you think I'm going? Here is where I go back. Yeah. I live at the Diamond Joe, so.
- [96:02]
Jimmy Whisman
They don't even know it.
- [96:03]
James Petregallo
I shovel hay for them in the morning. She said, I think so. She said, okay, well, thank you. And, yeah, she was going. And wow. So all of the criminal. The Dodge County Sheriff's Office, Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, they all arrive at the Diamond Joe the next day. Because they tracked Lois's cell phone there. Yeah, but she was gone by then, obviously. So now her children are freaking out. Dad's dead, Mom's disappeared. These are all. What do you tell the grandkids? Oh, I know we were supposed to go to Grandma's and ride the ATVs, but one's dead and one's missing. We got a lot of shit going on here.
- [96:45]
Jimmy Whisman
And we don't even know if they're still there. She may have sold them by now.
- [96:49]
James Petregallo
Totally. And they have no idea where Lois is. One of her sons told a cop that she hadn't even opened the Snapchats he sent her, which she shouldn't be opening Snapchats at her age anyway. But still.
- [97:04]
Jimmy Whisman
She shouldn't even have that.
- [97:05]
James Petregallo
She shouldn't even know what that is. She'd go, what's that, dear? I don't know. That's it. I know she's only in her 50s then, but still, 55 in 2018. 57 in 2018 is too old for Snapchat, period.
- [97:18]
Jimmy Whisman
For sure.
- [97:18]
James Petregallo
Because 37 in 2018 was too fucking old for Snapchat.
- [97:22]
Jimmy Whisman
100%.
- [97:24]
James Petregallo
April 2nd, 2018. So that was March 23rd.
- [97:29]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow.
- [97:30]
James Petregallo
We're talking 10 days later here. This is Fort Myers Beach, Florida.
- [97:36]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay.
- [97:37]
James Petregallo
Yes. Tess Koster. Remember Tess Koster, their friend, the couples.
- [97:43]
Jimmy Whisman
Party at the cabin?
- [97:44]
James Petregallo
Yeah, absolutely. Where the stakes were going. Well, Tess is down there, and she has a. Comes down here also. She's got different places they live in Minnesota and Florida. She's got a place down here in Fort Myers Beach. And Tess was cleaning the garage of one of the five rental units that her and her husband owned on Fort Myers beach, where they wintered. And they take their winter seriously. It's April 2nd. They're still there.
- [98:11]
Jimmy Whisman
Minnesota's not thawed yet.
- [98:12]
James Petregallo
No, no, no, not at all. But I mean, honestly, if you're going for when it's cold in Minnesota, what do you go from like October to June? How fucking how long are you there?
- [98:21]
Jimmy Whisman
That's a seven month wintering.
- [98:23]
James Petregallo
It's like an eight month fucking winter. So the rest of the year they owned a car dealership in blooming Prairie. This day though, their daughter Brianna contacted them to say that a woman had called the dealership and said that she was a friend of hers and she was going to be down in. She was down in Fort Myers beach and knew that they were down there too and wanted to meet up, wanted to meet up with you. So she said that she gave her the address there. Now she ends up, by the way, Lois is the woman looking for them. Lois bought a cheap cell phone under the name Stormy Liberty.
- [99:05]
Jimmy Whisman
Nice.
- [99:06]
James Petregallo
That is her alias, Stormy Liberty. Okay. Which is really funny because in 2018, anybody calling themselves Stormy anything would have had plenty jokes of to come of you. You know, we're a porn star.
- [99:18]
Jimmy Whisman
Terrific.
- [99:19]
James Petregallo
Yeah, yeah. So she ends up finding the address there. It's in a development where they own a bunch of condos. And this is 883rd street and Lois goes and goes and finds there. And the Costers were always inviting people to visit them down there, so they didn't mind at all. Yeah, a bunch of late earlier here they had sat next to the. To Dave and Lois at a wedding and said, yeah, you should come down to Florida sometime. Stay with us down there. So this is about 1:45pm on April 2, and Tess sees a woman with a white ponytail at the end of the driveway checking a notebook in her hand and then looking at the house number. So Tess takes a step toward her, thinking it's some lady there to inquire about one of the rentals. She says, can I help you? And the woman looked up and Tess goes, oh, it's Lois. Yeah, I know Lois. You know what I mean? So Lois seemed to recognize Tess as well. And then she ducked her head down and muttered, wrong house and power walked away. Okay. So Tess watches this crazy woman walk down the street, climb into a white Escalade and drive away. She's like, there's Lois getting into Lois's car with Minnesota license plates and everything.
- [100:39]
Jimmy Whisman
Off being all Lois.
- [100:40]
James Petregallo
Well, yeah. What the fuck, man? So she And Rod called 911 because they knew that she was being looked for.
- [100:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, that's great.
- [100:48]
James Petregallo
So after an hour and a half, two deputies showed up from the Lee County Sheriff's office and they knew that Lois was wanted on felony theft charges and also for questioning with Dave's death. But they figured that maybe. Probably that Tess saw her. They said that probably spooked her out of here. She's probably long gone by now. Long gone. So, yeah, they said no problem. They said they provided a couple extra patrols in the neighborhood. They said we'll send a car by every once in a while, but they're not gonna stake out anything or do anything crazy. They said she probably left from here and took the fucking bridge right over to the mainland and it's just gone out of here. So. By the way, one of the kids said the police down there did a horrible job because that really is a horrible job. They went. I'm sure she's gone by now, right? Yeah, well, it's the beach. It's a real laid back environment. I think the cops have the beach attitude too.
- [101:44]
Jimmy Whisman
That's all they're like, she's clearly gone.
- [101:46]
James Petregallo
She's probably gone. I don't know. I'm gonna go do some oyster shooters.
- [101:52]
Jimmy Whisman
So the bunch of girls from Bama.
- [101:54]
James Petregallo
Yeah. Jesus. So with some Bama fucking sorority members. So. April 3, 2018. The next day, Fort Myers Beach. A woman named Pam Hutchinson arrives. Now, Pam Hutchinson arrives in Fort Myers Beach. This is on Estero Island, I guess, Fort Myers beach down there. There's a little island down there in the Gulf of Mexico. April 3, 2018. She is there with her longtime friend Donna Fetron, whose husband recently committed suicide.
- [102:30]
Jimmy Whisman
Jesus.
- [102:31]
James Petregallo
So what makes you feel better, Florida.
- [102:33]
Jimmy Whisman
Let'S go to the island. And five o'clock always.
- [102:37]
James Petregallo
Wow. So this Donna plan to spread his ashes on an island nearby. So now this, the woman who's with the dead husband, she stayed with her family on Sanibel, which is that island that they're gonna dump the ashes on. And Pam Hutchinson checked into condo 404 at the marina Village at Snug harbor, which is a timeshare complex. She's staying alone now. She is 59 years old, very similar physically to Lois. Very similar. Blonde hair.
- [103:11]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [103:12]
James Petregallo
Big smile, outgoing, a little roundish. It's literally they're very similar physical descriptions. Like if you were going to describe one, you describe her and they go, is that Lois or Pam? Who are you or Lois or fucking? Yeah, Pam, who you talking about? So now Pam Hutchinson. Hutchinson is, they said, on the verge of change. This article called it. She just got out of a 20 year marriage, just got a divorce. Yeah. She was living in North Carolina here in Columbus, North Carolina, which is a small town of about a thousand people. Not much. She's known for being very outgoing. She is a car salesman. That's what she does. Salesperson. She was the top ranked car salesperson in Virginia Beach. So she's killing it here. That is where she made a life with her old husband, James Hutchinson. And they went boating and they would go out marlin fishing all the time. They had quite the life together. But they said. Her ex husband said, though after the divorce she just wanted to get out of here. Small little country town, that's where she's from. Of course, she had no desire to go back there, so she went to Florida instead. She'd been trying to buy her own place in Bradenton at the Riverview Condos overlooking the Manatee river, which is a short walk from where she worked catering at an upscale restaurant on called Pier 22. So her friends or her ex husband said the dust had settled in her life from the divorce and she had finally found a place that was going to be hers. Okay, now they said everything was really coming together for her. That's what her friend says. So she. There's a lot of pictures of her down there and she's looking happy. She's hanging out. At one time she was down there at the Sarasota Christmas boat parade and St. Patrick's Day at an Irish pub and you know, just having a good.
- [105:12]
Jimmy Whisman
Time doing real Florida shit.
- [105:14]
James Petregallo
She loved to fish for marlin, stay out late and vacation in Mexico. Okay, she's like Hunter S. Thompson or something, this lady. She sounds like she's fucking, sounds cool.
- [105:24]
Jimmy Whisman
She likes all the cool shit.
- [105:26]
James Petregallo
She likes cool shit. Yeah, she's a partier. She'd been a. She's been successful and now she wants to party a little bit here. Her friend said she's real easy to talk to, real, you know, friendly person. Her one friend said she's one of these people that she was too friendly for her own good. Trusted everybody. Oh, she meets somebody for five minutes. If they seem nice, then they must be a wonderful person. And that's her best friend and she trusts them. And that's not good for everybody, I would say here, so Hutchinson here, Pam, she gravitated to Florida and she liked this kind of old timey Florida shit there. She liked this bar called Old Florida Atmosphere and Bar kind of atmosphere there. She liked. And she made friends with somebody sitting on a stool, I guess he asked her to move one stool over so he could sit with his friend, this guy that she met. And they started talking and she was a very nice lady. He said she wanted to know about Everything around it, where the nice places were to go, where to eat, where to dance. And so this guy said he told her where they had good live music and all that kind of thing. And after a while, they had mutual friends and all that kind of thing. And before long, she was joining in on pontoon boat rides.
- [106:42]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow.
- [106:43]
James Petregallo
So she's very friendly. She had rented for a year in one of Bradenton's gated communities, but her ultimate goal was to own a condo. That's what she was trying to do here. She spent part of 2018 vacationing in Mexico, and she sublet a room to somebody else in Florida while she did that. And, yeah, she makes all sorts of friends talking away onto boats.
- [107:06]
Jimmy Whisman
Fuck, yeah.
- [107:06]
James Petregallo
Talking away on the boats. The woman she sublet a room to here in Florida said, we got along like mother and daughter. She called me Mommy Mom. And I called her girly girl. How old is this fucking lady? Because she's 60. So how old are you? 90. Fucking two. Yeah, you're 60. No one's mommy mom at this point.
- [107:30]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, even your mom is not Mommy. It's just.
- [107:32]
James Petregallo
That's weird.
- [107:33]
Jimmy Whisman
Hey, Linda.
- [107:34]
James Petregallo
Yeah, hey, listen. When I start collecting Social Security, you're Linda. That's how it works now.
- [107:40]
Jimmy Whisman
We're doing the same exact shit.
- [107:42]
James Petregallo
We are. So they said we jabbered and talked away half the night. They said Hutchinson made for her her famous corn chowder and introduced her to all of her friends. She said, we joked and laughed and had fun, and we got to know each other so well in such a short period of time. So I guess this person that she rented a place to had had a timeshare down there for a long time and all that kind of shit. So Hutchinson arrived this time on April 3rd, posted on Facebook about the amazing time she was having on the beach, listening to music at Nervous Nellie' room, I guess it's a bar, watching the sunsets and joking. She'd be returning to Bradenton on one of those fancy yachts docked next to her condo. She traveled to Fort Myers Beach. She found a condo in Bradenton she wanted to buy, too. And on Tuesday evening, she had dinner on Sanibel with her friend with the dead husband and watched the sunset. On Wednesday, the dead husband's wife there made a short drive to Fort Myers beach, and they had lunch outside at a restaurant. And that evening, Hutchinson said didn't she passed on an offer to join her friend for dinner on the other island. She said, I'm going to stay here, okay?
- [109:02]
Jimmy Whisman
Be over there spreading ashes and shit.
- [109:04]
James Petregallo
That sounds depressing.
- [109:05]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, I don't want to cry tonight.
- [109:07]
James Petregallo
I'm good on that. So while she stays here on Fort Myers beach, she meets another lady. Pam does. She meets another middle aged weight lady that looks very similar to her.
- [109:19]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [109:19]
James Petregallo
And it's Lois is who she meets. They meet at. They went to the Smokin Oyster Brewery to get some food together.
- [109:27]
Jimmy Whisman
She really is just going to all of them.
- [109:29]
James Petregallo
Yep. And Lois tells Pam that she's recently widowed, which technically is true.
- [109:36]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah. Yeah.
- [109:37]
James Petregallo
They spent about three hours drinking together and a security camera films them walking toward Pam's condo. After that she. Apparently Lois stays with her at the condo that night. Oh, she offers if you need a place to crash, come to my house. That's how nice she is. She meets a person in a bar, has a couple of drinks with them and offers for them just to crash out at her house.
- [110:00]
Jimmy Whisman
Come to my house. I mean she goes and gets on people's boats.
- [110:04]
James Petregallo
So that's what I mean. Yeah, I mean to invite someone to your house after drinking for non sexual purposes is very trusting. Really trusting. So Pam had intended to leave on April 5th, that's a Thursday, but decided to stay another night. That evening she ate an early dinner with her new friend here. That's the night where she ate at the Smoking Oyster. So she was supposed to leave and stayed, hangs out with Lois. They have dinner at the Smokin Oyster and you know they're leaving their show. I'm sitting at the bar. Hutchinson is in a pink camo baseball cap and a white blouse and Lois is wearing a blue T shirt and cream colored slacks. So they're very friendly though. And no one is, no one's surprised at that at all. One of her friends said she. Friends said she met a lady and that they were. She said she was. They were going to go out to eat that night and that the lady was single too. And that's really all she said about her. That's it. So I met some other single lady. We're gonna go out and party. So I'm not gonna go. Listen, depressy over here, you're gonna go spread your husband's ashes. I'm gonna go hang out with another single lady, someone who's been single a little longer. You know, they're not quite as depressed too.
- [111:16]
Jimmy Whisman
And she. Not one tear, just a lot of margaritas.
- [111:19]
James Petregallo
That's it. Jesus. So at 7:30, not one tier, at 7:30, 7pm Hutchinson paid for a Long island ice cream tea, a watermelon margarita, A sweet tea, a Bloody Mary and a Bahama Mama. God damn. Wow. That is a variety of all shit that gives you a headache.
- [111:39]
Jimmy Whisman
Vodka, tequila, rum. She's going nuts.
- [111:42]
James Petregallo
But all outside the Bloody Mary, all of those are headache, like asking for a headache. Long Island Iced tea is all sugar. It's all headache and all booze. All booze and all sugar. Watermelon margaritas sounds like a headache waiting to happen too. Watermelon, a lot of sweet. A Bahama Mama sounds like that's rum. 4,000% fucking sugar with rum. A Bloody Mary is the only one that's what you'd have after all of that shit. To try to feel better, to try to calm down. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Thrive Market. Absolutely. Get yourself some delicious healthy food. And that's a word post holidays. We're trying to get ourselves back together. So Thrive Market makes it so easy to find these better options without all this hassle. One of the favorite features that I like on here is the Healthy Swap scanner in the Thrive Market app. It's simple, really easy to use. You can scan any item and it'll suggest a cleaner, healthier alternative for it for groceries and everything gets delivered right to your door and you get savings on every offer. Also, I like the smart cart thing. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it takes this as it takes a little bit of stress out of the junk through food replacement program here.
- [112:51]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay.
- [112:52]
James Petregallo
You create an account. Thrive Market asks the right questions and automatically builds a grocery cart tailored to your needs, filled with healthier alternatives for your favorite brands. So then you can just adjust it, add or remove items before checking out. So many cool stuff, so many cool items in there and stuff that I didn't know you could even make. Delicious. And they make it delicious and it's really good. Ready for a junk free start to 2025, head to thrivemarket.com Smalltown Murder and get 30 off your first order plus a free sixty dollar gift. That's Thrive T H R I V E market.com Smalltown Murder thrivemarket.com Smalltown Murder this podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com save $80 with code space80@talkspace.com she also pays for a half pound of peel and eat shrimp, a side of chard and a small chowder. She's living.
- [114:42]
Jimmy Whisman
No shit.
- [114:44]
James Petregallo
Hutchinson is living. That night, her friend, the ash spreader texted Pam from the beach where her family was spreading her husband's ashes, but got no reply. She said she didn't think much of it at the time. She said she knows her friend, you know, goes out and she might have had a couple of drinks and she's having fun.
- [115:04]
Jimmy Whisman
For fun. This isn't fun.
- [115:05]
James Petregallo
This isn't fun. Come talk to me while I do some depressing shit.
- [115:08]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [115:09]
James Petregallo
So Hutchinson's realtor in Braden, Julie Keene, sent her an application required by the homeowners association for the condo she was set to purchase as well. They traded text messages, but then this real estate lady didn't hear anything back from HUTCHINSON after about 7pm and the client, she said, you know, she didn't return her texts over the weekend either. So she thought Pam was having buyer's remorse and changed her mind. Basically, that's what she thought. So Friday, April 6, here, this is at 8:30am so this is the day after the smoking oysters. At 8:30am Laurie Russell, who's the manager at the Marina Village where she's staying the timeshare, received a call at the front desk from condo 404. Okay. She says the caller says, oh my gosh, I slept until 4pm yesterday and then I went out and met some great people and I'm going to go boating today. And she said, is there any way I could stay for the weekend? And the lady agreed to work it out so she could stay for another few days. And they just put it on her credit card that she already paid for it with. So that's no problem. Shortly after 11am that same day, a woman walked up to the Wells Fargo bank in Fort Myers beach wearing a white fedora with a black ribbon around the rim. There she withdrew $5,000 from Hutchinson's account, making small talk with the seller, saying she was staying in a nearby hotel but had just bought a house in Bradenton. Sounds just like Pam, right?
- [116:46]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [116:47]
James Petregallo
Yeah, that's not fucking Pam at all. This woman left the bank, but instead of going boating, she started driving north in Pam Hutchinson's white Acura tl.
- [117:00]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, wow.
- [117:02]
James Petregallo
She went past Bradenton, drove all the way to ocala, which is 130 miles away from. Yeah, drove all the way there, 130 miles away, and checked into a Hilton hotel that evening under the name Pam Hutchinson. Also got room service. Two different room service deliveries, paying with Pam Hutchinson credit card. And left the next morning. Shortly after 10:30am she used Pam Hutchinson's credit cards to make three withdrawals of $500 each at a Bank of America drive up ATM in Ocala. She then continued going north, eventually turning west and crossing the state line, heading for the Kushada Casino Resort off Highway 165 in the town of kinder, which boasts the most slots in Louisiana. That's where she's headed next.
- [117:55]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay, all right, listen.
- [117:58]
James Petregallo
She's found a woman who looked like her, right? Fucking killed her and stole her identity.
- [118:03]
Jimmy Whisman
Where the fuck is Pam?
- [118:05]
James Petregallo
We'll find out. Here she ends up at the most slots in fucking Louisiana casino. Here she wins $1,500 on a dollar.
- [118:14]
Jimmy Whisman
Play nice.
- [118:16]
James Petregallo
She uses a driver's license and Social Security number to collect her winnings at 135. Those both. Those both belong to Lois. It's fucking Lois.
- [118:26]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [118:27]
James Petregallo
And they found her April 7th. That's when she was at the Ocala Hilton. Got room service and all that kind of shit. This is fucking crazy. Now when they're fine, later on when they're discovering this, the marshals who are looking for her said, my belief is she was like, you know what? I've got nothing to lose. I'm going to jail. Hell, I might as well enjoy myself on the ride. That's what he thinks. She can't escape. She doesn't have a passport. There's nowhere for her to go, really. She can't, you know, they don't know. So anyway, she won her jackpot and all that kind of thing. She's spotted at the casino there. Later that night, the Acura was spotted by a license plate reading camera in Texas, they have those now. So soon they put up a wanted poster, a $6,000 reward, multi state billboard campaign sponsored by the U.S. marshal Service to find the woman they dubbed Losing Streak Lois. Help us find Losing Streak Lois.
- [119:29]
Jimmy Whisman
She's gonna turn herself in for the reward money to keep gambling. She.
- [119:33]
James Petregallo
My name's pam.
- [119:34]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [119:35]
James Petregallo
So, April 9, 2018.
- [119:38]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [119:39]
James Petregallo
Laurie Russell is checking the units at Marina Village for a possible water leak. So now this is the time when she's still supposed to be there. So Pam's supposed to be staying there. She enters room 404 and notice that it smells not good in there at all. She figured it was sewage, which maybe was the source of the water problem. Now it's all making sense. But something seemed very strange. So she went outside the room, found two guests, two male guests who were walking by and said, I'm a little freaked out. Would you guys mind coming in here with me?
- [120:17]
Jimmy Whisman
I don't like finding dead bodies. Do you guys mind?
- [120:20]
James Petregallo
So I'm so freaked out, I'm gonna head into a dark hotel room with two strange men. That's how freaked out I am. I'm less scared of that than I am of this. Wow, that is something. So they look around in the bathroom. They find a woman lying on the floor with towels covering her up. Bathroom floor, Short blonde hair, wearing a pink camo baseball cap, white blouse, blue Levi's shorts, and Teva flip flops. A pillow, which is perforated by a bullet, is on top of her legs. The shot that killed her sliced through her lower lung, her heart's right atrium and aorta, her esophagus and her upper right lung.22 caliber bullet, by the way.
- [121:06]
Jimmy Whisman
What a terrible way to go.
- [121:08]
James Petregallo
Ended up lodged in the right cup of her bra.
- [121:12]
Jimmy Whisman
From the back, huh?
- [121:13]
James Petregallo
From the back. She had collapsed while her stomach and intestines filled with blood. And she's been dead for several days. Her toothbrush was in the sink. It looked like she got shot while she was brushing her teeth.
- [121:26]
Jimmy Whisman
Chicken shit.
- [121:27]
James Petregallo
Chicken shit. Then covered. She got covered with a towel, by the way. Then there was a towel against the crack under the bathroom door, trying to stop the smell. Stop the smell. Then the thermostats turned down to 61 as well. So as long as it can go for before this is discovered here, which is fucking wild. She's been shot twice. Once in the heart, once in the side. Wow. Two shots with a.22. Bathroom floor, covered up. Samesies, samesies. That's the thing. That is. The detectives wrote in the report, a bath towel was placed on the floor outside the bathroom and shoved up against the void, creating a seal. And all of, by the way, Pam's credit cards, car keys, driver's license, gold rings, everything of any value is missing. So they found the body, they called 911, they learned that Pam Hutchinson had been staying in room 404. And so the deputies called her ex husband in Virginia beach to tell him about it. They interviewed other guests at the Marina Village as well as Pam's friends. They followed her credit card trail, which led them to surveillance videos from the Smoke and Oyster, the Wells Fargo, the Ocala Hilton. And they said, same woman in all the photo, all the footage, they said, looks like. Looks like Pam. Right. Age, similar hair color, comparable complexion and build. But by then the deputies said, well, this is Pam Hutchinson. Yeah, so that ain't fucking Pam Hutchinson. Yeah, because when they were watching the videos, they go, okay, here's Pam there. She's going here. So she must have been alive that day. She must. And then finally they're like, hold on a second. She couldn't have been alive yesterday because this body's been here a couple days. So who the fuck is this and why does she look just like Pam Hutchinson? So the more video surveillance they watched, the more they saw of her. They started saying, that isn't Pam Hutchinson. That's some other lady that just looks like Pam Hutchinson. What the fuck? So it even placed her in room 404 at the time of the murder. Footage stamped 7:46pm shows them approaching the condo at 8:34pm A camera captured the woman walking by herself toward the building's fourth floor elevator. She stood in the landing area for 13 minutes, appearing distraught and upset and perhaps crying, then went back to the condo.
- [123:50]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, my God, that's.
- [123:52]
James Petregallo
She was. So sometime between 7:46 and 8:34 is when she killed this poor lady.
- [123:57]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [123:57]
James Petregallo
The next morning, video footage captured this woman in the Marina Village parking lot backing up Hutchinson's Acura next to a Cadillac Escalade, then transferring luggage and other items from the Escalade into the sedan.
- [124:13]
Jimmy Whisman
This is unbelievable.
- [124:14]
James Petregallo
Wow. The evening before she was found murdered, a sergeant with the sheriff's office had come across a white Cadillac Escalade with Minnesota plates at Bowditch Point on the northern tip of Fort Myers Beach. It had been abandoned, so that was. She ended up dumping that too. He ran the registration, found out it belonged to Dave. Dave's truck. Investigators didn't know what to make of it until they watched the surveillance video. And now they're starting to put it all together. And then they talked to Tess Koster, who had called the cops, and that kind of connected all the dots of who it is there. So they said they showed her. They called Tess down to the police station, showed her three video clips and two photos of the woman making bank withdrawals in Pam's name, and said, do you recognize her? And she said, that's Lois. It's Lois Reese. I know exactly who that is.
- [125:07]
Jimmy Whisman
I know that gal.
- [125:08]
James Petregallo
So Pam's friends here, man. They're all bummed out. Obviously, they had plans with her and shit like that. They were like, oh, my God. Two friends of hers said they were going down to Florida. Ellen Brit Watts and her husband said they were planning their annual trip, and they planned to stop in Bradenton to have dinner with Pam. And she wasn't answering her phone. The woman said, I kept telling my husband, something's wrong. Now we're supposed. You're supposed to have plans with your wife's friend.
- [125:40]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [125:41]
James Petregallo
They're not answering the phone. She's like, I know something's wrong. You're like, shut the fuck up. You're like, nothing is. They're fine. What are you talking about? She's a flake. That's the problem. Yeah. Just because your friend's a flake, I got to worry about it now? All night. No. This is crazy. So, yeah, they ended up going to a Sator Soda hotel room that night, and they said, we didn't hear anything on Monday. And I kept telling my husband, you need to reach out to Pam. By Tuesday, the couple was in Key West. And finally, her husband's starting to worry, too. After three days. It takes us three days to come around to that kind of shit. So they got off a trolley tour to get a slice of key lime pie when her husband noticed that he'd missed a phone call. They're really worried. It sounds like they're really burning the midnight oil looking for this lady.
- [126:29]
Jimmy Whisman
Let's get some key lime pie, and if we don't find her by then, then we'll call.
- [126:33]
James Petregallo
Oh, my God. And she got. The wife said that I could see the change in his face. Literally, he just looked at me and said, pam is dead.
- [126:42]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow.
- [126:43]
James Petregallo
That's when they found out Pam was dead. So there is a massive grandma hunt going on in this thing here.
- [126:49]
Jimmy Whisman
This is horrifying.
- [126:51]
James Petregallo
What is this?
- [126:52]
Jimmy Whisman
There's so many women that look like grandmas. You know what I mean?
- [126:55]
James Petregallo
Exactly.
- [126:55]
Jimmy Whisman
She could do this forever.
- [126:57]
James Petregallo
She could do this fucking forever. And by the way, the test lady said that she is terrified because she Says I look a lot like Pam. She was coming to kill me first.
- [127:08]
Jimmy Whisman
That's what she was, wasn't she?
- [127:09]
James Petregallo
She said, I know someone who looks like me down there. Oh, why else was she going there? There's no other reason for it. So obviously authorities in Florida send out a nationwide be on the lookout and everything like that. Obviously. Both victims found in bathrooms covered up by convenient things and both shot twice with a.22 handgun afterward. Both times all of their vehicles and valuables were taken. It's pretty sound MO here. It's wild. And they said that she. This is one of the Lee County's undersheriffs. Said she looks like anybody's mother or grandmother, yet she's a cold blooded killer. The suspects resources will run out and she may become very desperate and she could strike again. So watch the fuck out here. So they elevated their search for Lois to a major case in the US Marshals Department here they set up a national hotline, posted billboards in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, that read Wanted, wanted murder with Lois's name and photo, $5,000 reward. And then Crime Stoppers put in an extra thousand, making it 6,000. Widespread media coverage comes in and tons of tips come from that. And they're sifting through it but they can't find the only thing they can find. None of the tips work out to anything. The only, the last thing they have found of her was the Acura along Texas Highway 77 outside Refugio or Refugio south of Houston on April 8th at 11:16pm Spanish refugee.
- [128:46]
Jimmy Whisman
Is that what that is?
- [128:47]
James Petregallo
That's her. Refugio. That's her. I'm a Refugio. So they figured she's headed to Mexico, so they alert the U.S. border Patrol and Mexican authorities. They said she doesn't have a passport, but she could be trying to get in with somebody that had the ability to cross the border.
- [129:04]
Jimmy Whisman
And then she'll kill them there and.
- [129:05]
James Petregallo
Take their identity, take all their shit and live in Mexico or whatever. They said find somebody with a passport and assume their identity. Like she did with the woman in Fort Myers beach or someone with access to a boat either. That could be her other plan.
- [129:18]
Jimmy Whisman
She's just go around diabolical and dangerous.
- [129:20]
James Petregallo
Yeah, anything's possible. So they said that they, the cops were just working on this like crazy, going through anything, bills, statements, receipts, electronic devices that might be able to figure out at least maybe her mindset, something. So they said that this became personal to them. One of the cops said it became personal after they Saw the devastation on Lois's two older children. They said the youngest, Braden, didn't have much to say after his appearance on Inside Edition. Bill and Bria, though, though the older ones declined to talk to the press entirely and cut short phone calls from this reporter here. But they work closely with investigators to try to locate their mother and find out what happened. They, they said, this is the cop said they're really, really nice people. I was highly motivated to bring this case to closure. Everybody seems nice except for Lois. So the day the body was discovered, April 9, 2018, South Padre Island, Texas. Oh, all right. Narrow strip of land in the Gulf of Mexico, the southernmost tip of Texas. And it's, you know, people go there to vacation, obviously. April 9, 2018, a middle aged woman with blonde hair checked into the island's Motel 6. She requested an out of the way room and paid in cash in advance for a week stay. Two days later, in the early afternoon of Wednesday, April 11, she left Room 227, which just puts the 2 to 7 theme song in my head from the 80s sitcom Fuck. Damn it. Now that's in my head for the rest of the day, Room two to seven and walked across the parking lot to Padre Rita grill for lunch. The owner, Kathy Lafferty, described as a friendly 60, 61 year old woman with blonde hair, greeted her and complimented on her cute outfit and matching hat. What's your name? She says to her. The woman said, La Donna.
- [131:22]
Jimmy Whisman
La Donna.
- [131:23]
James Petregallo
And she said, like Madonna? And she said, yeah.
- [131:29]
Jimmy Whisman
So now she's ladonna.
- [131:31]
James Petregallo
She goes, but I just go by Donna.
- [131:33]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, okay, got it.
- [131:34]
James Petregallo
But she literally went to say Lois and was like, I can't say Lois Donna. Like a cartoon. Homer Simpson would be better at getting away with that. That's terrible. So they started hanging out, going around the island. A woman who looks just like her, her age, all that shit. This woman is introducing her to her friends. This is La Donna, goes by Donna. Ha ha ha.
- [131:58]
Jimmy Whisman
This is Henry. O. Henry, yes.
- [132:02]
James Petregallo
So she decided to stay for a little while. She said, yeah, I was going to leave, but I think I'll hang around here. This is pretty nice around here. Donna returned to the grill the next day in the evening. Every day she would come back and there's live music. So she'd come back at night and eat and do all of that. This Lafferty said she was a happy person, laughed a lot, a delightful person. I probably would have hired her if she asked for a job. She said Donna liked to sit in the corner of the bar, where she could talk to people on either side of her.
- [132:30]
Jimmy Whisman
Stop calling her that.
- [132:34]
James Petregallo
She was sociable, striking up conversations with waitstaff and other customers. She'd mentioned that she'd been in Florida previously, but found it overrun with old people. She said she's recently widowed, had come into money and was looking to buy a condo. She was asking locals about property taxes and homeowners association fees and things like that. She always paid in cash from a large wad and tipped generously. So the grill staff liked her. They all thought she was cool. One lady, Laura Giacchino, who was a waiter there, said, I would have invited her to my house. She said that, Quote, Donna flirted shamelessly with the Padres, Rita's bartender, Arnie, who was several years younger than she was. He flirted back because he's a bartender and he works on tips.
- [133:25]
Jimmy Whisman
That's his job.
- [133:25]
James Petregallo
But then she asked him out, and he had to go, no, no, no, no. She asked him out.
- [133:31]
Jimmy Whisman
She was real.
- [133:32]
James Petregallo
I fuck women half my age. Not half your age. Not twice my age, not twice. It's different. So she made other friends. She met Isabel Barrero at the Motel 6. Barrero, who was 52 and lived in Alamo, had come to the island by herself for a short vacation. And, yeah, she thought, that's nice. Donna's another woman who came here by herself. That's cool. Another older lady coming out by herself, someone to talk to. They hit it off, had a couple drinks, and sat chatting it up there. Donna explained to this lady that her husband had died. And this lady said she teared up as she spoke about her husband dying. And this lady said she didn't ask questions. She didn't want to be nosy. Whatever you want to tell me is fine. Over the next two days, they had lunch, went shopping, hung out in each other's motel rooms, sat on the beach. Donna posed for photos with her new friend. You are wanted everywhere. You're posing for social media photos like a fucking moron. Her friend here said she wasn't shy with the camera. She wanted me to take pictures of her. Wow. Amanda camacho, the Motel 6 clerk who checked her in later, said that she transformed from looking like an elderly lady when she arrived into someone more provocative, wearing short shorts and tank tops.
- [134:56]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, my God. She's.
- [134:57]
James Petregallo
She is a chameleon this morning.
- [134:59]
Jimmy Whisman
What is going on?
- [135:00]
James Petregallo
A gambling picture. A chameleon rolling dice. That would be her logo.
- [135:04]
Jimmy Whisman
And she's trying to be somebody else now so that she can find that person and just Be them and be them.
- [135:09]
James Petregallo
That's it. And just not be Lois anymore. It's easier, they said. Also on her stomach she had what looked like a fresh tattoo. What? She got a belly mind bro, depicting a palm tree in a beachside sunset. Because that's her new life now.
- [135:25]
Jimmy Whisman
She got a. She got an island life tattoo.
- [135:28]
James Petregallo
She went from a fucking Minnesota worm farm, killed her husband, and a month later she's fucking Miss beach life. All of a sudden she's got salt.
- [135:37]
Jimmy Whisman
Life tattooed on her belly.
- [135:39]
James Petregallo
What the fuck is going on? So how does nobody recognize her in South Africa? What's going on? Well, apparently this South Padre island does not. Nobody watches the news there. They don't care. Yeah, they're an island. They don't give a shit. They're not. They're here because they're to get away from the outside world. So whatever's going on off of this island really doesn't affect me any is the way they look at it. They don't give a shit. So there's literally nobody watching the news. Nobody cares. That's it. I mean, she is 30 miles from the Mexican border, by the way.
- [136:10]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, she's. I can smell it.
- [136:12]
James Petregallo
She can definitely smell it. I can smell it. She's in Texas, so she can smell something. April 17, 2018, she's still out here.
- [136:21]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow.
- [136:22]
James Petregallo
April 17, she's making all sorts of friend friends here. April 17, she meets Ron Mulholland at the Padre Rita bar restaurant there. He's a 76 year old man who owns several condos on the island.
- [136:36]
Jimmy Whisman
Will he fuck her?
- [136:38]
James Petregallo
Find out. He stopped in for dinner at about 9pm and sat near her at the bar. So there's a younger lady. I like it. They chatted it up for about an hour at the bar before she accepts his invitation to go to the Coral Reef, which is a karaoke bar just up the road there. He ends up dropping her off at her motel later that night, but gave her his business card and suggested they get together again some other time. Oh, it's a smooth move.
- [137:05]
Jimmy Whisman
That business is real impressive.
- [137:07]
James Petregallo
How about that right there? Pow. I don't even have to write it down. So more people kept befriending her all the time. Bernadette Mathis, a 65 year old lady, she's a court reporter. She's sitting alone at the bar of Liam's Steakhouse and Oyster Bar. They struck up a conversation after dinner. They exchanged phone numbers. Yeah, Lois texted her, texted her later that night saying, bragged about my new friend. Be good and Safe. I want to hang out soon.
- [137:40]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay.
- [137:41]
James Petregallo
All right. And this lady said she didn't have a lot of friends outside of work, so she was happy with the prospect of making a friend. A lot of older people don't have friends. Yeah, they move away. Their friends move away, their friends die. Their friends, it's. They run out of friends. They don't have a lot of friends. They have family. But who the fuck wants to hang out with your grandkids 24, 7? You want somebody your own age who gets a reference, maybe that you make. You know what I mean? Shit like that, you know? I don't know. Makes. Understands your dick. Van Dyke show reference from 1963. Something. I don't know.
- [138:10]
Jimmy Whisman
Quoting season two, episode seven of Happy Days.
- [138:14]
James Petregallo
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You remember when Fonzie jumped the thing? Yeah, obviously. So the next night, they met again for dinner at Liam's. This lady didn't make it through her second drink, though. Normally she could put some drinks away. This is a South Texas, you know, lady here. She's a hard drinking gal, but, man, this is not a drink and a half. And she is ready to pass out, really. So she's like, this is. I have never been able to not handle my alcohol like this. How strong did you make these drinks? Ha ha ha. To the bartender. The bartender wondered if someone slipped something in her drink because this is real weird behavior. Later, this. Mathis has a fuzzy recollection of how she and Lois ended up back at her house. They sat in the hot tub, and Lois spent the night in the guest bedroom. There's security cameras throughout the residence, by the way, inside the house. So if Lois brought her there to kill her, she couldn't because it's all on camera. And she saw it. That's why. The next morning, Mathis took Lois out to breakfast at the Rancho Viejo Country Club. Mathis noticed that Lois took out some pills. She had a few kinds and took one. After breakfast, Mathis drove Lois back to the Motel 6. They already made plans to meet for dinner on Friday, April 20. She said she acted like a really nice person, and I trusted her. Peggy Houlihan met Lois at the Motel 6 pool one day with Isabel Barario. How about just lay low? You're wanted for fucking. Two murders in two states.
- [139:49]
Jimmy Whisman
This is 12 people she's hung out with.
- [139:51]
James Petregallo
This is crazy. She's a musician. Planning to perform that evening at Padre Rita's open mic. Yikes. That's rough. Houlihan had her guitar with her and the three women sang some songs together. Barario recorded it. Lois seemed to be happy to be included in the whole situation. Yet this Houlihan, Peggy Houlihan, said something about the situation made her uncomfortable. She said that Lois was pressuring the Barario lady to stay on the island longer. She didn't get it. Yeah. Now, this Houlihan said she wondered if the two women might be, like, together together, or if maybe that's what Lois was trying to do, was trying to hook up with this lady she didn't know. Later that evening, Lois arrived at the Padre Rita before Barrero and joined Houlihan at her table. Barario had decided to stay an extra night, but according to Houlihan, the open micr there, Lois seemed agitated and seemed upset that this Borrero lady might have departed the island without telling her. But when Borrero finally got there, Lois took her to a separate table, and they ended up leaving later on, the two of them, without saying goodbye. So the open mic lady here said, I didn't know till the next morning that Isabel was okay. Okay. Now, Isabelle came to me to say goodbye, and, you know, she knew that she wasn't dead. So that's good. April 19, 2018. Dirty owls. Dirty Owls, which claims to serve the best seafood on South Padre, by the way. Okay, because I want a name. I want dirty in my name of a seafood restaurant that tells me how clean it is. Yeah, no shit. She asked to look at a menu, and a waiter chatted with her for a few minutes. Across the room, the manager, George Higginbotham, was watching, and he said the woman looked familiar. The hair something said, I have seen her before. Who is this lady? Then when she did like, she. Apparently, she has a really, really, really distinctive hair flip that she does all.
- [142:01]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [142:02]
James Petregallo
And like, all the videos, they say you can tell it's her because it's her hair flip. You can see. You're like, is that. Is that her? And then she'll do the hair flip, and you go, oh, it's her.
- [142:11]
Jimmy Whisman
So this guy slots James. Because she has a tell.
- [142:14]
James Petregallo
She has a. Yeah, she'd be terrible at poker. So she. He's watching this, and he sees her do a hair flip. And then it clicked. He said, cbs this Morning. I saw her on the fucking news. That's where I saw her. Right. So interesting. So she gave the menu back and walked out of the restaurant. She said she didn't want to eat at a bar. And Dirty Al's didn't have any seating available, only the Bar. So she said, nevermind. So the manager told the staff, that's her. That's the woman who killed the lady in Florida. And they were like, get the fuck out of here. What are you talking about, George?
- [142:49]
Jimmy Whisman
It's a murderer. I swear it.
- [142:51]
James Petregallo
George, how many fucking blue drinks have you had already today? This is crazy.
- [142:55]
Jimmy Whisman
How many fish bowls you drank?
- [142:57]
James Petregallo
Yeah, he said, it is. I'm serious. He said, go see what kind of car she gets into. Go see what kind of car. So one of the employees goes out and looks, and it's a white sedan. And he goes, that's what that fucking murderer is driving. They said, she's driving a white sedan. So, okay, they call the cops, and the cops, US Marshals, everybody arrives at Dirty Owls. And not to shut the place down for some kind of health code violation either. Which is the surprising part. Yeah, if you're just eating in that restaurant and you see the whole posse come up, you're like, oh, God, how bad is it in that kitchen? Holy shit.
- [143:30]
Jimmy Whisman
Their oysters out.
- [143:32]
James Petregallo
Oh God. Jesus fucking knew. I told you we shouldn't go to Dirty Owls. You said it was kitschy and cute. Fucking. This is bullshit. So this manager, Higginbotham, told the marshals that Lois was wearing a yellow tank top and white shorts and that her car had Florida license plates. They said, do you have surveillance footage? He said, I absolutely do, but I have no idea how to retrieve it. They set it up for me. I don't know how to get it. Thank fuck. I haven't needed it till now.
- [143:59]
Jimmy Whisman
Nothing's happened since I've installed it, so I haven't had to look.
- [144:01]
James Petregallo
No idea. So the marshals were like, okay, well, we'll go try to find her. And they said she was looking for a place to eat, so check the restaurants. So they do. They just look in every restaurant till they end up at the C Ranch restaurant right next door to Dirty Al's. There's a white Acura parked outside with Florida license plates. So they secure the restaurant's exit. Several. Several marshals and local. Local cops enter the Sea Ranch and surround Lois. They said she was sitting at her preferred location, a corner spot at the bar. One of the marshals picked up her purse and said, lois, we're going to take you out of here and explain what's going on. Don't make a scene. In other words, they didn't. They didn't whip the guns out and said, you know, hands on your head right now. Which to me is crazy because, you know, she Has a gun. She's a murderer and will use it. And they just took her purse. I guess they figured the gun was in there. And they said, don't make a scene. Basically, let's not fuck up this guy's night of business here.
- [145:01]
Jimmy Whisman
Your cult's probably not on you. It's probably in here, so.
- [145:04]
James Petregallo
Or in your room or something. So they said Lois complied without saying a word. And they said, that's really interesting, because the guy said, usually a fugitive, this kind of fugitive will either resist arrest or be like, what are you talking about? Feign ignorance of the innocence of the whole thing. Or say, she's not her. Yeah. This guy said she didn't have a single emotion on her face. Like she was waiting for it.
- [145:27]
Jimmy Whisman
She was tired.
- [145:28]
James Petregallo
She might as well have said, what took you so long? Like she was that close to just saying that, you know, I was gonna.
- [145:35]
Jimmy Whisman
Have to kill somebody that's friends with open micrs, for God's sake.
- [145:39]
James Petregallo
I was gonna do it. So they end up. Everybody comes in, the crime scene units, everything like that. They took DNA swabs from Lois, obtained warrants to search the Acura room 227 at the Motel 6. They found Marla Gibbs and Jack A in there. It was terrible. They found a map, a brochure from the Lucky Eagle Casino, of course. Pill bottles, piles of clothes, including the white fedora she was seen wearing in surveillance videos when she posed as Pam Hutchinson. They found tissues, soap, and a green and white towel stolen from the Marina Village.
- [146:12]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow.
- [146:13]
James Petregallo
She's such a.
- [146:14]
Jimmy Whisman
She steals towels.
- [146:15]
James Petregallo
She's a towel soap stealer. That's hilarious. A small stash of Lifestyles Ultra Lube. Plus condoms.
- [146:23]
Jimmy Whisman
What?
- [146:24]
James Petregallo
She was planning on getting some action, just in case. You never know. Wow. Hutchinson's lifestyles. Hutchinson's checkbook. Four credit cards and $548 in cash. That's all she had? Yep. That's all she had left. Wow. They found a black bag with bullets, a holster, duct tape and rubber gloves inside.
- [146:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, my God.
- [146:49]
James Petregallo
Two handguns, by the way. Two. A Colt Woodsman. 24, two that her husband or father gave her, and a Smith and Wesson 9 millimeter as well.
- [146:58]
Jimmy Whisman
She hasn't even used that yet.
- [147:00]
James Petregallo
Nope. That's what I'm saying. This. She had plans. Dude, she was gonna do this for so long in a blaze of glory. No, this is not fucking around here. Then they found a trophy.
- [147:14]
Jimmy Whisman
What?
- [147:14]
James Petregallo
They found a fucking trophy. They found Pam's sunglasses wrapped in a hand towel and hidden. That's a Trophy. That's not to use. Not to use them. Not to. Everything else was for utilitarian purposes. This is a trophy.
- [147:29]
Jimmy Whisman
The sunglasses.
- [147:31]
James Petregallo
You sick fucking lady, man. The Dodge County Sheriff, Scott Rose, said, I think she was just waiting to be caught because she went so peacefully. They said she was just sitting at the bar, drinking, having a good old time. Do you ask to down the rest of your drink before you're taken away forever?
- [147:46]
Jimmy Whisman
I did pay for it.
- [147:47]
James Petregallo
I feel like you go, let me finish this right. Just bang. And then you got me. So, yeah, Searching her suitcase, that's what they found. All of that. And they think she obviously had someone else lined up. Bernadette Mathis here. Yeah, she had dinner with her. She stayed in her guest room. She believed that she had been targeted as the potential third victim. Luckily, she was caught probably right before she was going to kill. Yeah, which is. I mean, it was probably that night she was gonna kill her. So. That's crazy.
- [148:16]
Jimmy Whisman
That's how expensive eating out is, too, by the way.
- [148:19]
James Petregallo
11. Oh, it'll burn through everything. No, especially in resort areas.
- [148:23]
Jimmy Whisman
Resorts at the bar, drinking and eating, fucking whatever that shit is.
- [148:27]
James Petregallo
I was talking to a guy who does well for himself and all this shit. And him and his wife, he's an older guy, they go down to Key west all the time. And he said they were in Key west for was like four weeks or something, and they spent $9,000 on food. Oh, my God, 9,000. Luckily, he's a successful guy and owns a restaurant. $9,000 on food in four weeks. He said it was more than the rental of the place on the beach. That was like 5,000, and the food was 9,000. I was like, Holy shit, one. That's an expensive vacation, too. And he goes, that wasn't even. Like, we weren't eating, like lobster tails every night. That was. You go and eat chicken. It was $48 for a chicken breast and some rice. It's fucking crazy. These tourist spots will fucking get you when you're down there.
- [149:17]
Jimmy Whisman
Those people are doing great. Those people vacation in Turks and Caicos.
- [149:22]
James Petregallo
Oh, yeah, yeah. That's.
- [149:24]
Jimmy Whisman
People on those resort places. They go down to Barbados, for Christ's sake.
- [149:27]
James Petregallo
Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a. There's those islands down there, too. There's a whole. Anthony Bourdain, as a chapter in one of his books, where he talks about going with some lady. And he loved this one guy running a restaurant, just fucking rich people. Over he goes, this little guy, little dirty guy, makes terrible little pieces of chicken on A barbecue. But because he's got this little spot of beach, famous people kiss his ass to pay $150 for 12 cents worth of chicken. It's fucking hilarious.
- [149:54]
Jimmy Whisman
He goes to Thailand for, like, sex vacation.
- [149:57]
James Petregallo
Yeah, that's how he gets away. So South Padre island locals find out and they're like, what the fuck? One person says, well, this is the Lafferty lady said, we had no idea when she was here. She was a murderer trying to hide. You just never know people you see on the street or walk into your bar who they really are.
- [150:17]
Jimmy Whisman
We gotta get some TVs with CBS on them.
- [150:19]
James Petregallo
Fuck, man. We gotta get some cable in this bitch. Anybody have the Internet? No, it's only 2018. Jesus Christ. Yes. Ask Jeeves. I don't know. Fucking 20 years ago. Internet give us. We don't care. So, yeah, people on there all freaked out. Isabel Barrero, Bernadette Mathis, Carol Lafferty. All women who she fooled and were friends with. And they're all like, any of us could have been the next victim. They're all around her age, all in, you know, identity stealable range.
- [150:49]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow.
- [150:50]
James Petregallo
It's fucking wild, dude. It's fucking crazy. This. The Mathis lady said that she showed up for their dinner scheduled on April 20, didn't know she'd been arrested the day before.
- [151:00]
Jimmy Whisman
Hilarious.
- [151:01]
James Petregallo
When she asked around, she learned that the woman she knew as Donna wasn't Donna. It was actually the murderer from Florida and Minnesota. She said, I felt very betrayed. I feel stupid that I could be so gullible. It's just scary. Very scary. To meet a stranger and think they're gonna be your friend and they turn out to be a killer. Yeah, I would say so. The test coster lady said she was awfully freaked out and everything like that. She said, maybe. The test coster lady said maybe Lois was hoping she'd find one of the rental units empty and she could squat there. But she says, yeah, she says I look a lot. She said I have blonde hair, same age. She was here for a different reason. I know what's up. She said, yeah. She said, I was afraid for my life. She turned me from that small town, trusting person to having a loaded gun by my bed. Whoa, that's a big switch there. So, yeah, they said that she is now very famous across the country. Losing streak, Lois. All this shit, which I love, people didn't understand it. People gave. Trusted her with their kids, really. She did daycare. They're like, what the fuck? This is crazy. And this level of violence and this level of everything is all very rare for women murderers, by the way. Usually it's a. Again, utilitarian. A utilitarian crime or. And it's even to get to what, like I got to kill my husband because I want to go be with this guy or I got to kill this lady because she's trying to fuck my husband, or I want to kill him for insurance. It's very point A to point bids because they.
- [152:35]
Jimmy Whisman
I'm crazy. Or kill the. Kill him because he's beating me.
- [152:40]
James Petregallo
Yeah, exactly. But it's either way. Killing somebody to go on a gambling spree is a very male thing to do.
- [152:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Unbelievable.
- [152:48]
James Petregallo
It's very odds. They thought that was really weird. They said. The cops said it's rare for women to kill at all, but when they do, it's often an exceptional event. The result of jealous rage or the need to protect themselves or, you know, whatever. They said she didn't fit a profile because you don't have enough people to make a profile like this.
- [153:06]
Jimmy Whisman
Right.
- [153:06]
James Petregallo
They said there isn't enough of her to even make a profile of what this is. She's an outlier. Yeah, she's a total outlier.
- [153:13]
Jimmy Whisman
She turned 16 grand into $538 in three weeks.
- [153:19]
James Petregallo
Quickly. That is from a forensic psychologist in Minnesota named Tricia Akin said that. Now, obviously reactions are pretty crazy. Ellen Brit Watts, who's Pam Hutchinson's cousin, said she's sympathetic with the challengers here. She said she wishes things had gone differently. She said, nothing against law enforcement because I know they had a real hard job, but I think they missed a big opportunity when that couple reported her being on Fort Myers beach on April 2nd.
- [153:47]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, yeah.
- [153:48]
James Petregallo
Not for nothing, but she said that she would have been alive. She said, that's ridiculous. They won't talk about it in detail. But the Fort Lee or. I'm sorry, the Lee county undersheriff said one thing I can tell you, there was no opportunity missed. I know that. Bullshit. You fucking idiot. You're a dummy, Carmine Marcello. You're a fucking idiot.
- [154:08]
Jimmy Whisman
She drove the whole Gulf because you fucked up, dude.
- [154:12]
James Petregallo
She was on the island for days after that fucking conning and killing a person. And he said, we didn't miss anything, I'll tell you that much.
- [154:20]
Jimmy Whisman
There's a body because.
- [154:21]
James Petregallo
Fucking liar. They literally. The test didn't call the cops and said, there's some lady. She said, it's this lady name driving this and this is what she did. And they were like, oh, she's got to be gone. By now, long gone. You guys suck, man. Holy shit. They said obviously she was arrested, so hopefully that'll bring some closure to the family. That's what that cop said. Maybe now they'll shut the fuck up is what he said, basically. Wow. It's very. Also, one of her friends, Pam Hutchinson's friends, Judy Wilder, said it wasn't a man who did it, it was a woman. This has me, like, blown away.
- [154:59]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [155:00]
James Petregallo
You don't expect a woman stranger to do this. That's the other thing. Women generally don't kill strangers. Yeah, there's a lot of emotion and entrenched shit that comes out in, like, a really scum.
- [155:11]
Jimmy Whisman
While she's brushing her teeth.
- [155:13]
James Petregallo
Yeah, it's fucked up, man. It's real fucked up. The chamber of commerce lady from Minnesota said, when you're a small town and then somebody does something like that, it just makes you feel creepy. Then you wish you never knew who she was. It scared a lot of people. We had so much anxiety in the community until she got found. It's just weird what makes people snap. After she did that, we thought, oh, my gosh, what would make her do that? And she said, how can you be such a nice person and then turn into a monster? True. So did gambling make her do it? That's what they're wondering.
- [155:48]
Jimmy Whisman
She got a belly tattoo. It's not gambling, is it?
- [155:51]
James Petregallo
I don't know what the fuck it is. And they said that. But the only most similar case they can find to this is Donna Blanton, who in 2003 shot her husband of six months, who was a Virginia State Trooper with his own.380 pistol after they argued about her gambling debt. But that's not to gamble more.
- [156:09]
Jimmy Whisman
Right.
- [156:10]
James Petregallo
That was just to get out of the. Getting caught for that. So that doesn't make sense. It's weird.
- [156:15]
Jimmy Whisman
And to flee the state and continue killing and gambling and doing this.
- [156:19]
James Petregallo
They said it's far more likely for problem gamblers to be violent toward themselves.
- [156:24]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay.
- [156:25]
James Petregallo
They said one in five have seriously contemplated or attempted suicide, according to the National Council on Problem Gambling. They said one reason we think there's a higher suicide rate is that people with a gambling problem have fewer options, less help, and less understanding because they've already burned all their bridges by the time they get to that point. They said, we don't want the image of the gambling addict to be a homicidal maniac. These are folks who face a lot of shame and stigma. I don't think they face any stigma anymore unless it's from your own family. Nobody cares what you do.
- [156:54]
Jimmy Whisman
Or they borrow from their friends. And their friends are all connected via one common thing.
- [157:00]
James Petregallo
But don't worry, Kevin Hart will still be on television telling you to keep doing it.
- [157:05]
Jimmy Whisman
Don't get butterscotch and raw candy out of your pocket. That's just nasty. It makes jokes about it. It's so fun.
- [157:12]
James Petregallo
Just do that. Because the NFL hates gambling. That's why they play those commercials. They say a number of our patients have co occurring disorders. It's not a singular dimension illness. Talking about gambling. So they said that this often clusters in families and things like depression, anxiety, bipolar. Obviously they said her mother probably had some kind of problem because she was a hoarder. And. And her mother was eventually committed to a state hospital for the mentally ill as well.
- [157:42]
Jimmy Whisman
So that's two in the family.
- [157:44]
James Petregallo
That's two. And Kim, obviously we talked about her and then we'll talk about her sister Cindy also had an incident. We'll talk about that in a second in court. She goes to make her initial thing and she pleads not guilty. Her initial appearance pleads not guilty, Lois. And says she has been taking medication for a mental condition.
- [158:05]
Jimmy Whisman
Okay.
- [158:06]
James Petregallo
She said, so they don't know. Who knows? They said, could it be possible that she just started having a mental condition in the last few years? I guess. Only 10% of bipolar cases occur in people over the age of 50. So usually if you're not bipolar by 50, you're not going to be type of thing, they said. All these pieces together give you a lot more confidence that there was an acute manic psychotic episode. That's a guy who is a forensic clinical neuropsychologist who has examined 700 murder cases named John Fabian. Okay, now, March of 2019, she's waiting for court. Her sister Cindy. That's Cindy with two E's, by the way. Cindy. Cindy's at her house about 10 miles southeast of Rochester, Minnesota, arguing with her 37 year old drunk son, who is currently drunk. He shoved her. Cindy and her husband kicked her out, or kicked him out. So you gotta leave. Shortly after, she found him lying in the driveway and told him to go get the car so she could take him somewhere. I'm gonna take you to go get the car. I'm gonna take you somewhere. This is crazy. He refused, so she went and got in her 2004 Ford Explorer and ran him over.
- [159:24]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh my God.
- [159:26]
James Petregallo
In her own driveway. Her own son. On purpose. He suffered a badly fractured pelvis and head injuries. When a deputy asked if Cindy meant to run over her son. She said, and I quote, you bet. Which is so Minnesota. Oh, you bet. Sure, you bet. That's. Wow. How Minnesota is that?
- [159:53]
Jimmy Whisman
How funny.
- [159:54]
James Petregallo
Oh, my God.
- [159:55]
Jimmy Whisman
My sister has a gambling problem. She still says, you bet.
- [159:58]
James Petregallo
You bet. Everyone does.
- [160:01]
Jimmy Whisman
Wow.
- [160:02]
James Petregallo
She was charged with second and third degree assault, criminal vehicular operation, and domestic assault. The morning of August 5, 2019. She quarreled with her probation officer. That afternoon, she went to a hardware store in Rochester and purchased a clothesline, then drove to Quarry Hill park, near where she and Lois grew up, walked through the woods to a pedestrian bridge spanning a deep ravine, and hanged herself.
- [160:31]
Jimmy Whisman
God damn it.
- [160:32]
James Petregallo
So this family has got issues.
- [160:34]
Jimmy Whisman
No shit.
- [160:36]
James Petregallo
There are some mental health issues going on here. Clearly. The one sister went completely, you know, balls out wacky when she got a divorce. This one. This is a lot. This is a lot.
- [160:47]
Jimmy Whisman
What's going on with them.
- [160:49]
James Petregallo
So why the fuck did Lois do this? Okay, there is a. All we have is theories, but there is a forensic psychologist here named David Thomas who theorizes that when she snapped, she was broke and fending, which you normally hear for drug addicts, but it can also be applied to gambling addicts. He says, when you get into serious financial trouble like that and there's no way out, at some point your significant other's got to go, you know what? There's nothing more I can do for you. So you're left out on your own. The husband says, nope, I ain't gonna do it anymore. You've messed up my business. You're stealing my money. If I lose my business, I have nothing left, so I'm cutting you off. And now she's on her own, and she's like, I can't control this, so I'm going to do what I need to do. And that's what she does, because she's desperate. That's his thought, is that she gets cut off, and then she. But still, why would you kill. That's a. That's way over the top. December 2019, Lois goes to court, and the. They want to try her. She's being tried first in Florida because that's where they have her, right? And they're saying, you're gonna get the death penalty, little lady. And she says, well, can I make a deal? So to avoid the death penalty, they allow her to make a deal. And that's. That's all she's gonna get is guaranteed is no death penalty. She is going to admit to shooting Pam Hutchinson with a firearm and plead guilty to first Degree murder. Also pleads guilty to grand theft of a motor vehicle and other property. Criminal. Other property. Criminal use of a personal identification information of a deceased individual. She does not provide a statement, but answers the court's questions. And they said, I will adjudicate. Adjudicate you guilty. You low losing streak, Lois. Yeah, maybe. Fuck off. Life in prison without parole. And orders her to pay $38,556 in attorney's fees and other expenses, which she's like, I'll go double or nothing. Hold on. Like, no, this is the problem.
- [162:50]
Jimmy Whisman
No, if I have, I could double it.
- [162:53]
James Petregallo
I'll play you for it. So August 2020, she has to go for Dave's murder. Now up in Minnesota. Here, her court appointed public defender worked out a deal with the attorney general's office. Here, she'll plead guilty to first degree murder of her husband. And the judge tells Lois that because this is during COVID Right. She says, remove your mask and let me hear your responses here. Then there's a bunch of questions that we'll talk about here in a second. She said she was satisfied with her defense, was thinking clearly, was unaffected by medication she took for arthritis and high cholesterol, by the way. No mention of antidepressants or any other medication to treat mental illnesses, like she said before. And she said she was pleading guilty because she was indeed guilty. And so anyway, then the judge gets to ask. Shit. And they asked her, how and why did you do this? Why'd you kill Dave? She said, after she And Dave, on March 11, that's the Sunday she and Dave had attended their grandson's basketball game in Wisconsin. So they did do that. Lois wanted to stay with her family, but Dave wanted to leave. They left and argued on the drive home. They continued to argue in their bedroom, according to Lois. And then Dave, she says, took a loaded handgun out of the dresser, offered it to her and said, quote, why don't you just kill yourself? Maybe you'll get it right this time.
- [164:25]
Jimmy Whisman
Whoa.
- [164:26]
James Petregallo
Which I don't put. It's what I'm saying. He told the other. I mean, he might have just fucking lost it and said here. Instead. She said she took the gun, aimed it at his chest and fired twice.
- [164:39]
Jimmy Whisman
But that we know she didn't do that, right?
- [164:42]
James Petregallo
Well, no, he fired once and then he probably spun to get away and hit him in the back. It makes perfect sense. So that actually sounds right. That could have happened. So they said, did you know Dave was dead? And she said, yes. They said, what did you do then? And she said, I laid down with him.
- [164:59]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh.
- [165:00]
James Petregallo
The judge said, what was that? Pardon?
- [165:03]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [165:04]
James Petregallo
And she said, I laid down with him. I closed my eyes. And the prosecutor said, you made the decision to shoot him? And she said, well, he was right in front of me, and I looked at him in the heart and shot him. So it was on purpose. The family in attendance did not react at all to this, but they made their feelings known during impact statements. Here. This is a social worker. Read the first one on behalf of Dave's elderly mother who couldn't come herself. When you killed David, you took my heart. David was this family's ray of sunshine. I will never forgive you. Said that she's just such a cold blooded murderer she could satisfy her gambling addiction and that she left him laying dead while she partied and gambled, just like before. Lois's firstborn, Bill, that's her son, approached the podium. He said, you stole something from us. We'll never get back. I'll never be able to forgive you. Then he said, the hurt you've caused my kids, your grandkids, God, they loved you so much. Loved. That's painful. Then her daughter was the last to speak. And she said, losing my dad at the hands of my mom is something I'll never be able to process. If I could go back in time to make sure my mom got the help she needed and never killed my dad, Those are thoughts that constantly haunt me. Wow. Lois speaks what she's got because right now she just looks like a cold blooded psychopath. So she's got to say something. She says, quote, what I did is an unpardonable crime. Solitude is forever. I feel I deserve this. I will have no reprieve. My life without David is my sentence, my penance. Our children are loving, caring, strong people. It's because of David's strengths, the way that they are. The way they are. My best accomplishment was having our children. She then apologized to the family, saying that she felt bad from taking him from you. And then turned to her children and said, I feel I need to say this. I didn't know how much pain I was in until I wasn't anymore. Oh, the judge says, you, sir or ma'am or grandma. Yeah, you gambling? Granny may fuck off. Mandatory life sentence without parole.
- [167:22]
Jimmy Whisman
So she's got two of them.
- [167:23]
James Petregallo
Two. And the deal is she'll be able to serve her time in Minnesota because that's closer to her family. That's part of the deal she made. She doesn't have to do it in Florida. And So, yeah, she said at the judge, set aside the charge of felony theft and left open the question of restitution to be determined later, because that's not really important right now. Obviously, the reaction here. Pam's. Pam Hutchinson's best friend, said she was thrilled that Lois was sentenced but would have preferred the death penalty.
- [167:52]
Jimmy Whisman
Sure.
- [167:53]
James Petregallo
She said, oh, my God, I'm so happy. This will give the family some type of closure. I'm just glad she didn't say she was crazy. I'm kind of disappointed, but you got to trust our system. I would like to have seen the death penalty now. The lawyer, this is her lawyer, said, I know she killed two people and it sounds kind of weird, but I genuinely liked her. Yeah, she said that. Then they asked her, if do you believe Lois? Everything she said, and she shrugged her shoulders and said, that's her story. That's the story she's been telling all along. But then the reporter says she then flicked my elbow with the back of her hand as though he shared a confidence and added, why would she lie to me? Like, in other words, it's a murder fucking suspect. So, you know, take that with what it is. The daughter tries to explain it. Braden, she gave an interview to Inside Edition, and she said that it's he or he. I'm sorry. He said that it's like living in a bad movie to see his mother, who always put herself second, accused of killing two people. He said it's fucking crazy. He said she literally snapped. My whole family is in shock. Nobody ever suspected anything like this. It has devastated our family. He said, talked about the. All of this, you know, his mother being a suspect. He's like, it's like a bad movie. I feel like I'm going to wake up and it's going to go back to normal, but it's not. She was caring and never put us second. He then said, gambling is a terrible thing where it can suck people in and destroy lives. And they said as it. He said that as the cops spread out looking for her, he said, I just felt really bad for my mom. I felt like she was alone and desperate, which happens when you're a double murderer. That's a thing that happens pretty well alone.
- [169:37]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah.
- [169:38]
James Petregallo
So, yeah, she's also. They're wondering about later on about the money and all that kind of thing. And the kids don't really care. They said they haven't spoken to their mother since their father's death. And he says this. Braden said if he ever does get the chance to speak to his Mother. He said, I just tell her that I love her, okay?
- [169:57]
Jimmy Whisman
Everything's gone.
- [169:59]
James Petregallo
It's all gone. She's fucking done. She has two states worth of life without parole. Tess Koster, the woman who almost got it, too, said, I'm happy to be alive and I feel lucky. That's what she said. So. Holy shit. That's, you know, it's a lot here. The sheriff said that, you know, we took our time to build the strongest case against Lois for David's murder. So they were kind of happy. Florida did their thing first, because then they could build it more because there was no doubt what happened down there, all the surveillance footage and all that kind of shit. So they wanted to do that. Yeah. The test said we even invited them to come stay with us in Florida a couple of years ago, but they didn't come. I'm so glad she was caught. The motor. The owner of a motorcycle and All Terrain vehicle dealership that knows them and Blooming Prairie said, everyone is speculating. She snapped. What can you say? There's no explanation. Everybody says that because of that fucking show. It has to be right. Has to be.
- [170:58]
Jimmy Whisman
Well, she. She didn't kill Tess because she would have had to kill a guy, too. I think that's what that is, possibly.
- [171:04]
James Petregallo
Or if she could have taken her away. But I think she. I'm not sure what was going on. I don't know if she was gonna try to sneak in, sneak up to her and fucking. Maybe she was just doing recon, looking by, and then was like, oh, shit, she's in the driveway and didn't expect it. So it's weird. They likened her personality split to a switch getting flicked, saying that she went from being a really nice person to being a monster. That's what they said. Now, speaking of that, HBO put out like a three part documentary on this whole thing called I'm Not a Monster.
- [171:41]
Jimmy Whisman
Well, I don't know.
- [171:43]
James Petregallo
Yeah. And Lois talks. She didn't talk to anybody since she got caught. She did no interviews. She turned down everything she does. Does an interview for this documentary, and this is what she says. They said, what the. What the fuck, lady?
- [171:58]
Jimmy Whisman
Why?
- [171:59]
James Petregallo
She said it was just the perfect storm. That's what she said. It was just years of abuse and years of giving and giving and neglecting my own mental health and needs and. I don't know. I think the word is psychotic break. I just snapped.
- [172:14]
Jimmy Whisman
Oxygen. I need a contract.
- [172:16]
James Petregallo
Wow. She said, I was very intimidated by him. I didn't think I had a way out or could defy him because he was a big man and he was very, very aggressive. Lots of verbal abuse, which I feel is worse than physical abuse. Well, you're an asshole. It's not worse.
- [172:31]
Jimmy Whisman
But what about the lady in Florida?
- [172:33]
James Petregallo
You can't give me a break?
- [172:34]
Jimmy Whisman
I was gonna say blame him for this.
- [172:36]
James Petregallo
You can blame him for all you want up there. What about her? That's what I'm saying. I don't. Up there. Great. We'll let you have that.
- [172:43]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, sure.
- [172:45]
James Petregallo
You're innocent. All cleared up, ladies. That's fine. Okay. Now get to Florida and finish out your life without parole. Stupid. You fucking moron. So anyway, about Pam. She said never. I had never anticipated hurting that woman. Horse shit.
- [173:02]
Jimmy Whisman
Absolutely hunted her.
- [173:04]
James Petregallo
She said she reached out to me to be my friend. I just wish I could have been in a better state of mine. I could have been her friend. Are you out of your fucking mind? She says she does not remember killing Pamela and doesn't know why she did it. Please.
- [173:19]
Jimmy Whisman
You went right to the ATM and took that grand.
- [173:22]
James Petregallo
Fucking liar. Exactly. Yeah, I went right to the casino. She said, it's truly a puzzle because I don't have all the memories and all the answers for that. It was shown to me that I took her life. I still don't know the reason why it happened. I feel absolute remorse and shame. I feel terrible that I took her life and David's life.
- [173:40]
Jimmy Whisman
Five grand, Lois.
- [173:41]
James Petregallo
Five grand. And continued use of her car and credit cards. She then said she just got caught up in my breakdown and it was awful. Bullshit. Bullshit. Then she goes on to say, you know, my mother died in a mental institution. I didn't want to die in a mental institution. And that was my biggest fear. If I had to go to trial because I felt mentally incompetent. I was in the middle of a breakdown and I felt that's what would happen. I'd end up just like my mother. Don't worry. We have maximum security prison for you. That'll make you beg for a fucking mental institution, dummy. You fucking asshole. Dude, that's the biggest cop out ever. You're in for life without parole in two states. Just be fucking honest.
- [174:22]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, just say it. Just say what you did.
- [174:25]
James Petregallo
It's one thing to say maybe, okay, anything could happen. We don't know what happens behind closed doors with people. So maybe that is what was going on. As nice as they both seem. But then when they get to an inexcusable one. She can't say Pam was abusing her.
- [174:37]
Jimmy Whisman
No.
- [174:38]
James Petregallo
So they get to that. And then it's just. Well, I don't remember what happened then. So it must be.
- [174:42]
Jimmy Whisman
Your sister recognized her mental break and went to Ace Hardware and solved the problem.
- [174:46]
James Petregallo
Fucking that's what I mean. If you would have done that. I am very. We're both extremely anti. Suicide therapy is a great thing if you're going to start killing people.
- [174:55]
Jimmy Whisman
Yeah, right.
- [174:57]
James Petregallo
Find the nearest pedestrian bridge and hang yourself off it. Because take yourself out before anybody else. Don't kill others. Make sure. Yeah, you want to get the drop. So your next snap.
- [175:09]
Jimmy Whisman
Help me with my fucking fall.
- [175:10]
James Petregallo
Help me with my fucking fall. God, I love Deadwood. So Lois is now in prison at the Minnesota Correctional Facility in Shakopee. Shakopee. 30 miles southwest. Chicopee. No, Shakopee of Minneapolis. 80 miles north of Blooming Prairie. So not even that far from home. And there you go, everybody. That is Blooming Prairie, Minnesota, and a fucking twisted, wild, weird episode.
- [175:37]
Jimmy Whisman
I gotta say, she's out of her fucking mind. She's dangerous and refuses to admit she's an asshole.
- [175:44]
James Petregallo
She would have went on killing women that looked like her and using their money until she got caught.
- [175:49]
Jimmy Whisman
Until she got away with.
- [175:49]
James Petregallo
Yeah, period. That's it. And that's all. Would have never stopped. So there you go. If you like that story, I got an idea what you should do. You should head over to whatever app you're on and give us five stars. It helps the show out immensely. Really does. Helps drive us up the charts. So thank you for everyone that does that. Also follow us on social media. We are Smalltown Murder on Instagram, small town pod on Facebook. You certainly want to go to. Shut upandgivememurder.com tickets to live shows. Everybody get your asses out here for live shows. We can't wait. February 7th, Pittsburgh.
- [176:24]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh boy.
- [176:24]
James Petregallo
Get in there, Pittsburgh. Get your tickets. I'm going to be very honest with you guys.
- [176:29]
Jimmy Whisman
I can't wait.
- [176:30]
James Petregallo
We're coming to Pittsburgh in February. You know, few people want to go to Pittsburgh in February. We go. We'll go to Pittsburgh in February. Now, right now, Pittsburgh, we're going to be very honest and let you in. You are the worst selling show we have in the country right now. There are shows 10 months from now that are almost sold out. And you guys are really doing this slow. So I'm going to say this, if you'd ever like us to come back to Pittsburgh, because I'll tell you what, we don't go places where we don't sell out. So if you'd like us to come back. Please buy tickets. Because we like Pittsburgh. We fucking publicly say nice things about Pittsburgh. Help us out here, for Christ's sake.
- [177:07]
Jimmy Whisman
I love your Three Rivers. I can't wait.
- [177:09]
James Petregallo
We love the fucking place, man. We love it. Now get your tickets.
- [177:13]
Jimmy Whisman
Marathons. But I love your city.
- [177:16]
James Petregallo
Don't embarrass yourselves. Don't be the only city that fucks us up in the whole country. Please. So there's that. And then Columbus is the next day. Get your tickets right now. All the way through the end of the year. And they're going fast. The Seattle show at the end of the year. November's already almost sold out. Portland and Even Philly and D.C. at the end of the year. In December are close.
- [177:35]
Jimmy Whisman
Columbus is almost sold out too. You better.
- [177:37]
James Petregallo
That's going fast too. So hang out with us. Do that. You also want Patreon. Patreon.com P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com CrimeInSports, which is the name of our other show, which you should be listening to. So there's that. Get in there. Anybody. $5 a month or above. You're gonna get a gigantic back catalog of bonus episodes you've never fucking heard before. But you're gonna want to hear big time. So get in there and hear those new ones every other week, including this week. When you get one. Crime in Sports. One Small Town Murder. Crime and Sports. Travis Rudolph, a current or a recent NFL player who just finished up a murder trial. We'll talk about that. And then. Small Town murder. West Memphis 3, Part 2. How the fuck did we end up here? Who else could have done it? We'll talk all about that stuff. Patreon.com crime and sports. But you also get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy, Hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people in the world who would never steal our identities for the purposes of gambling. Hit me with them right now.
- [178:34]
Jimmy Whisman
This week's executive producers are. Neil and Gretchen Jones. Holy shit. You're wonderful.
- [178:40]
James Petregallo
You're fantastic.
- [178:41]
Jimmy Whisman
I can't say it enough. That's so kind of you.
- [178:43]
James Petregallo
No one's keeping up with you Joneses.
- [178:45]
Jimmy Whisman
Nobody's keeping up with these Joneses, but these people are trying. Andrea Fellows, Jill King, Gary Howard, Meredith McClure, Kevin Brown and Amanda Clayton. Thank you all very much for going above and beyond. You didn't have to do that. And we really appreciate you. Other producers this week are Beth Buell, Janice Hill, Tiffany Gonzalez, Amanda Mason, Jesse with no last name. Courtney Door. Andy Cote. Or just Coat. Or maybe Cody Kimberly Brown V. Chopney, I believe. I don't know. Zachariah Ward. Celery stock. 13. Jesse Struthers. Hannah Franzi. Franz. Maybe Franz. Lisa. Oh, boy. Bastis. Bastis. Check. Bastus. Check. Best tooth Chicken Batuschick. Is there two S's that are silent? We'll never know. Fast Frog 007. Prankster 003. Madeline Victoria, Tori Ludwig, Chari. Shari Cherie with no last name. Brittany Davidson, Billy welch, Cody Bryant. Ms. Taylor. XO. Thank you, Ms. Taylor. Caitlyn Bear. Bear. Yes. Natalie Aren. Sibia. Arencibia. Thank you. Natalie Ben with no last name. John Holomby. Junan. Junan Hayes. Jacob Troublefield. Pam W. Casper. The Spicy Ghost. Daniel Davis. Melissa Zenzen. Uh, Cassie with an ass. James. Uh, Griffin. Uh, she might be a spicy. I imagine she's telling us that it's not Casey, but Cassie. I think that's trying to help me with.
- [180:17]
James Petregallo
But.
- [180:17]
Jimmy Whisman
But she's also got an ass. All right. Tim Dennis, Jenny with no last name. Tara Hodgson, Bill Bo. Billy Lover. Michelle Bingham, Sabrina Snowden, Maria Tamanaka Lazara. Jill Crouch. Jay with no last name this show brought to you by the letter J. Karen Turner. Mandy Colvin. Devin Behringer. Sonia Alega Aliaga. Kate Courtney, Derek Kitchen, Christina Franklin, Jennifer Newsome. Hunter Pickett. Aaron Lilly, Christina Marie Corey Ganis. Oh, boy.
- [180:49]
James Petregallo
Wow.
- [180:50]
Jimmy Whisman
Is that. I wonder, is he trying to make me say something gross with that? I don't know. Sophia Khadique.
- [180:56]
James Petregallo
It helps. If you want to do that, get someone who's a real good reader. Probably.
- [181:04]
Jimmy Whisman
Sophia Kudike. She could be making me say something gross. I don't know.
- [181:08]
James Petregallo
You never know.
- [181:08]
Jimmy Whisman
Taylor Kennedy, S.J. nikki Young, Mams McGuire, Richard Lee, Jim McKee, Rachel Sanborn, Ray Early. Kim. Kim P. She's an LPN in Oklahoma. Casey with no last name. S and C. The letters SC Steven Charles, Walter, Stacy Lee, Amanda Zaringer. Chocolate Diesel. All right. Crystal, Abby with no last name. Amanda Rodine. Uh, Ann. Hank. Uh, Luis, Rosalie Gabriel. Gabriel. Gabrielle Smith. Aced Hasty Aste. Hey, I don't know. Sean McCloskey. Todd Winager. LR&H.L, r, H. I don't know what that is. Lauren. Lauren, Ray. Jim Montgomery, Lacey Fifthian, Haley Henson, Dara. Dara Jordan, Maddie Brown, Lizzie with no last name. Tanya Knight, Mark Langworthy, Sinead Feeney, Carissa Tucker Ellis, Cindy Jensen, R. Brown, Charmaine Stevies Steves. Alec Cornelison, Amanda Thomas, Jennifer Bruno, Stephanie May, Giancarlo Rafino look at me getting good with this Italian.
- [182:16]
James Petregallo
Brooke would probably be best, but that's fine. He just pronounced it wrong and then said, look at me getting it right.
- [182:24]
Jimmy Whisman
Did I say it wrong?
- [182:25]
James Petregallo
Giancarlo would probably.
- [182:26]
Jimmy Whisman
Oh, okay. Giancarlo.
- [182:28]
James Petregallo
Giancarlo's fine. But it's probably like a Giancarlo type of thing is what you call him in America. Yeah. Jimmy's got his fingers out. Jesus Christ.
- [182:43]
Jimmy Whisman
Ian Rugless. Evan Rude. Melissa Pever. Pavoroke Poornic. All right. Chase Par. Param. George Beaver. Jesus Christ. Laura Collins. Catherine with no last name. Kyrie Jensen. Winosaur. Winosaur. Very funny. Kate McD. Samantha Coleman. Tanya Martinez. Aaron Logan Michael with no last name.
- [183:11]
James Petregallo
Dustin Devolved.
- [183:13]
Jimmy Whisman
You're. You're just disapproval. Timmy's got his fingers up.
- [183:17]
James Petregallo
Jesus. Oh, crack it up. I love it. That disapproval.
- [183:22]
Jimmy Whisman
Nicola Jaworska. Kimberly Qnap Fell. She may be trying to make me say something dirty. Matthew Marks. Mil Hollow Maple. Cali Swanson. Kenzie Money. Kimber Herzog. Aaron with no last name. Steve Richmond. Jill with no last name. Caitlyn Allen.
- [183:38]
James Petregallo
Mitch Hanlon.
- [183:39]
Jimmy Whisman
Eric. Just Eric Gorgon. Gorgon Z. What did we just. The wrestler's last name was Gorgon. That is crazy. All right.
- [183:46]
James Petregallo
That's weird. Phoebe Cox.
- [183:48]
Jimmy Whisman
That's bizarre, right? I I I Ibo Elbow. Elbow grease. All right? Spelled like French. Elbow. That's why it. That's why you're ruining my life. Joy or Irwin. Alex Barlo. Kristen Canlon. Canton. C O C A N T I N. Buffy and Chauncey Cote. Coty Buffy. That's wild. Carrie Rahman. I didn't know that was actually somebody's name. Ran Raw, man. Uh, Brian Hoffman. Uh, Andrew Campbell. Desmona Shaw. Uh, somebody just texted me and said they were sitting on a plane. James with next to iced tea and cocoa and their kid. That man still flies a regular commercial. Commercial. It's bananas. Brian Hoffman. Andrew Campbell. Desmona Shaw. I said that. Quizzical Queen Anne Spiker. Spikener. Oh, boy. Vicky Hay. Phil Barrera. Logan Armstrong. Beth with no last name. Nate with no last name. Eric Beacon. Roderick Rose. Brent with no last name. Chef Blake. 1016. Holly Hagman. Leah. Leah. Stan Olson. Yikes. Katie Tracy. Micah Tetralt. And all of our patrons. You guys are amazing.
- [185:00]
James Petregallo
Thank you so much, everybody. We appreciate everything you do for us. You guys are awesome. Thank you. And keep, keep hanging out with us. You want to follow us on social media, head over to shut up and give me murder dot com. Drop down menus will take you anywhere you want to go. That said, until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com survey.
- [185:54]
Jimmy Whisman
He was hip hop's biggest mogul.
- [185:56]
James Petregallo
The man who redefined fame, fortune and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Combs. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party.
- [186:15]
Jimmy Whisman
So yeah, that's what's up.
- [186:17]
James Petregallo
But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down. Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three count indictment charging Sean Combs with racketeering, conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution. I was up and I hit rock bottom.
- [186:34]
Jimmy Whisman
But I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry.
- [186:38]
James Petregallo
Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real.
- [186:41]
Jimmy Whisman
Now it's real.
- [186:42]
James Petregallo
From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace from law and crime, this is the rise and fall of Diddy. Listen to the rise and fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus.